The SUE Files, Part II

[Lord Torath]

Well, someone failed a sanity check. There are so many things I want to ask Chief Circle, but essentially they all boil down to: How in the world can you think things work that way!?!?!?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I thought the same thing. Not to mention Darth Maul, Nute Gunray, most of the Seperatist leadership, Prince Xizor (EU, but still), and that chubby dude with the head-tails that followed him everywhere in the prequels.

The Empire may be speciest, but I do not think Palpatine himself is.

The chubby dude is Mas Amedda (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mas_Amedda). And you're right, he used Human speciesism to further the Empire's goals rather than being speciesist himself and there are plenty of counterexamples to CC's claim, I just thought that a Thrawn fanboy of all people would know better.

[VeliciaL]

The fact that everything in his universe seems to work exactly how he wants it to makes me think that it's really some pocket universe that some entity (I'm going with the Doctor) has AO-Sue trapped in to keep him from harming the multiverse.

That's my headcanon, at least. :smalltongue:

[The Fury]

The fact that everything in his universe seems to work exactly how he wants it to makes me think that it's really some pocket universe that some entity (I'm going with the Doctor) has AO-Sue trapped in to keep him from harming the multiverse.

That's my headcanon, at least. :smalltongue:

That makes me feel better anyway.

[Sith_Happens]

The concept of regular wear and tear has never sunk in with him, nor the idea that a two-kilometer ship exposed to the vacuum of space will essentially be halfway broken all the time, which is why it needs a small army of engineers.

AND THIS GUY WANTS TO BE AN AEROSPACE ENGINEER IN REAL LIFE!?

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/QmBe-KjzpmA/mqdefault.jpg

[The Glyphstone]

AND THIS GUY WANTS TO BE AN AEROSPACE ENGINEER IN REAL LIFE!?

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/QmBe-KjzpmA/mqdefault.jpg

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3019573/indiana-jones-face-melt-o.gif

[comicshorse]

The fact that everything in his universe seems to work exactly how he wants it to makes me think that it's really some pocket universe that some entity (I'm going with the Doctor) has AO-Sue trapped in to keep him from harming the multiverse.

That's my headcanon, at least. :smalltongue:

I was thinking more this is some psychially induced fantasy only going on in the Ao-Sue's mind while his body lies gently drooling ( but probably cared for it the Doctor arranged it)

[llehctim]

The fact that everything in his universe seems to work exactly how he wants it to makes me think that it's really some pocket universe that some entity (I'm going with the Doctor) has AO-Sue trapped in to keep him from harming the multiverse.

That's my headcanon, at least. :smalltongue:

Oh see, I'm not the only one that thinks that, I had several times Implied he was the writer of the entire multiverse and that there were others (other campaigns) where the writer controlling the universe is in control of the multiverse while his DMPC is in control of a few realities, but with luck bending over backwards for him since he is also separately controlling everything to give him basically wishwarping in his favor for everything.

On an unrelated note to that, given the tendency to have magic/scifi compensate for any actual need for supply lines, I can only assume the Sue brought the star trek replicator technology to fabricate things, and I think we tried to do something to a trade route, but that iirc ended badly, Which when you think about it is inevitable when fighting an infinite enemy whose leader everything he does succeeds, with a limited force, led by a low level character who was in charge, because unlike the former leader, he actually made decisions, I acknowledge that taking time to make decisions normally is fine for govnt, but with a smallish organization thats basically got a ticking time bomb less so.

[Friv]

The chubby dude is Mas Amedda (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mas_Amedda). And you're right, he used Human speciesism to further the Empire's goals rather than being speciesist himself and there are plenty of counterexamples to CC's claim, I just thought that a Thrawn fanboy of all people would know better.

No, no, Thrawn was so amazing because he could rise to such a high rank despite how speciesist the Emperor was. Thrawn was just that good.

Seriously, though, as insane as this post was, it hangs together with a kind of crazy internal logic. Given how obsessed CC is about sole-author-power, and editing being evil, it makes perfect sense that he would consider any change of author, studio, or publisher to be the equivalent of killing a series entirely and starting over with a new, evil-copy one.

And indie games are evil because they represent settling for the little leagues, when he knows that if they just applied themselves like him, they would be massive budget brilliance. Go big or go home!

[Alejandro]

I sense a great disturbance in the Force.

[Big Fau]

Marty Stu's "logic" really pisses me off. Palpatine surrendering the entirety of the Empire, something that has consumed a good chunk of his life just from him trying to run the damn thing, to some random guy from another dimension after a mere 10 minute conversation is ludicrous. Textbook God-Mode Sue.

Gerbils are capable of writing more convincing stories.

[llehctim]

No, no, Thrawn was so amazing because he could rise to such a high rank despite how speciesist the Emperor was. Thrawn was just that good.

Seriously, though, as insane as this post was, it hangs together with a kind of crazy internal logic. Given how obsessed CC is about sole-author-power, and editing being evil, it makes perfect sense that he would consider any change of author, studio, or publisher to be the equivalent of killing a series entirely and starting over with a new, evil-copy one.

And indie games are evil because they represent settling for the little leagues, when he knows that if they just applied themselves like him, they would be massive budget brilliance. Go big or go home!

That is a fairly accurate explanation, the only exception being if something not cannon fits with his view of cannon, then he allows it.
To some degree I can even see where his paranoia of giving players agency comes from 'give them an inch and they will take it a mile' is something I was quite worried about and was a major contributor to me not wanting to GM, because it is hard to determine where to draw the line, to avoid it being abused.
Granted in actual observation, barring really annoying players, if you give them an inch, and they try to go a mile, just ask them not to, and they might not go the whole way etc.

I personally prefer the players being creative and trying to get an edge.
"If I wanted people who acted how I expected them to act, I could just use NPCs or write a story"
(my response to trekkin when he did something that caused me to redesign parts of my projected plot.)

[The Fury]

Marty Stu's "logic" really pisses me off. Palpatine surrendering the entirety of the Empire, something that has consumed a good chunk of his life just from him trying to run the damn thing, to some random guy from another dimension after a mere 10 minute conversation is ludicrous. Textbook God-Mode Sue.

Gerbils are capable of writing more convincing stories.

Don't be silly, it took five minutes. Ten minutes would just be crazy.

But yes, the "logic" here is maddening.

[Big Fau]

Don't be silly, it took five minutes. Ten minutes would just be crazy.

But yes, the "logic" here is maddening.

You're right, my bad; Marty can't hold a conversation for more than 5 minutes without going into a several-hour-long monologue of meaningless exposition and fanboy ranting.

[Kish]

No, no, Thrawn was so amazing because he could rise to such a high rank despite how speciesist the Emperor was. Thrawn was just that good.
Much as I hate to sound like I'm defending this guy...Yes, basically, that is the official explanation from Heir to the Empire, complete with the New Republic's first reaction to hearing about Thrawn being, "A nonhuman Grand Admiral? Unlikely, we know the Emperor didn't like nonhumans. He's probably just a Moff who declared himself Grand Admiral after the Empire started to fall apart--holy crap why does he know all our plans before we do?"

[The Fury]

You're right, my bad; Marty can't hold a conversation for more than 5 minutes without going into a several-hour-long monologue of meaningless exposition and fanboy ranting.

Heheh. I got to admit, the image of Marty going into an hour-long fanboy tirade while Emperor Palpatine looks on in confusion is kind of funny.

[llehctim]

Heheh. I got to admit, the image of Marty going into an hour-long fanboy tirade while Emperor Palpatine looks on in confusion is kind of funny.

To be fair, mind control was involved, which given the fact that jedi also have mind influencing powers, seems like something one would have protocols for as a sith, but I'll chalk that up to overconfidence, and it wasnt written so didnt exist unless the GM wanted it to.

[VeliciaL]

To be fair, mind control was involved, which given the fact that jedi also have mind influencing powers, seems like something one would have protocols for as a sith, but I'll chalk that up to overconfidence, and it wasnt written so didnt exist unless the GM wanted it to.

That's what gets me. The Jedi are supposed to have crazy disciplined minds, and Palpatine was more powerful than anyone in the Jedi order. You don't just mind control the guy.

Which leads into my previous post, it was suspiciously easy.

[The Fury]

That's what gets me. The Jedi are supposed to have crazy disciplined minds, and Palpatine was more powerful than anyone in the Jedi order. You don't just mind control the guy.

Which leads into my previous post, it was suspiciously easy.

Maybe Marty is stuck in Gerard Draketooth's phantasm and, unlike Elan, lacks the self awareness to escape?

[Kish]

Heheh. I got to admit, the image of Marty going into an hour-long fanboy tirade while Emperor Palpatine looks on in confusion is kind of funny.
"Reminiscent of William Shatner reading the Eye of Argon while high off his ass on morphine"...

Alternate theory: What Palpatine actually said was, "You seem to be immune to Force Lightning and not even realize I'm blasting you, so take the wretched fleet if that's the only way to get you to SHUT UP!"

[Geordnet]

That's what gets me. The Jedi are supposed to have crazy disciplined minds, and Palpatine was more powerful than anyone in the Jedi order. You don't just mind control the guy.

See, once I showed him wh40k, he decided he had to be "orders of magnitude more psionic than the Emperor"
:sigh:


Rereading that old stuff got me thinking about how to take down Marty again, though. He's conveniently left open acid as a weakness. I therefore suggest we mass-produce positively-charged particle beam weaponry. (On an unrelated note, I'd like to upgrade that slab of anti-neutronium I wanted to hit him with to an anti-quark star.)

[jindra34]

:sigh:


Rereading that old stuff got me thinking about how to take down Marty again, though. He's conveniently left open acid as a weakness. I therefore suggest we mass-produce positively-charged particle beam weaponry. (On an unrelated note, I'd like to upgrade that slab of anti-neutronium I wanted to hit him with to an anti-quark star.)
Sending him to the universe of INFINITE SPACE might work. There are Nigh-Omnipotent entities there who dislike people causing waves, and express said dislike by making it so they never were.

[Geordnet]

Sending him to the universe of INFINITE SPACE might work.
No, send him to 0-space.

Actually... He'd probably like it in Pointland. :smallbiggrin:

[ReaderAt2046]

No, send him to 0-space.

Actually... He'd probably like it in Pointland. :smallbiggrin:

I think he's already in pointland

[Arbane]

You don't just mind control the guy.


To misquote Linus van Pelt, "You do if you're a stupid fanfic writer!"

[Trekkin]

The mind control kept getting retconned into and out of existence; certainly he never planned to employ it when he described it happening in the campaign to me. This was supposed to be purely rhetorical.

That said, I can see him adding it in retroactively to spread out the impossibility a little.

[The Fury]

Maybe we should have a break from this insanity and play some nice indie games. I haven't played it yet but I've heard Vacant Sky was good. And hey, FTL was fun...

What? No! How dare you! Indie devs are killing the video game industry! killing it!

Seriously, I don't get this guy's problem with indie developers. Then again there's a lot about this guy that I don't think I'm meant to understand.

[TuggyNE]

Then again there's a lot about this guy that I don't think I'm meant to understand.

Someone should write a book titled When Chief Circle Happens to Good People.

[Almaseti]

So happy I didn't go to the school in the blog post. Yeek.

[TeChameleon]

... y'know, part of me is really rather curious to see how Chief Circle would react to the information (assuming he doesn't already know it, of course) that arguably the single most legendary Japanese sword, Kusanagi no Tsurugi (Grasscutter-Sword), aka the 'Sword of the gods', was demonstrably not a katana.

[The Random NPC]

... y'know, part of me is really rather curious to see how Chief Circle would react to the information (assuming he doesn't already know it, of course) that arguably the single most legendary Japanese sword, Kusanagi no Tsurugi (Grasscutter-Sword), aka the 'Sword of the gods', was demonstrably not a katana.

Depending on when it was smithed:
Obviously it was a prototype for a new katana/It was the prototype that all katanas were based on.

[TeChameleon]

I say 'demonstrably not a katana' because it wasn't even slightly curved. It looked more like a Roman gladius (as far as anyone can tell, anyhow) than what most people think of when you say 'Japanese sword'.

So... yeah <.<

[TuggyNE]

I say 'demonstrably not a katana' because it wasn't even slightly curved. It looked more like a Roman gladius (as far as anyone can tell, anyhow) than what most people think of when you say 'Japanese sword'.

"You just don't understand what a real katana looks like!"

[Trekkin]

I suspect he would say there's no evidence that it's real, so there's no evidence it's not a katana.

At any rate, new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-sue-system-charge-of-derp-brigade.html).

[VeliciaL]

He's seriously treating it as if "tactical genious" was just a +X on weapon damage or something. There are no words...

I love how his military geniuses are supposed to operate at peak efficiency, without giving them the tactical flexibility that they'd need to do just that.

And he had to turn the AI off to win at SEV. That's priceless.

Oh, wait, I see what's going on: he turned the AI off to get his setting to work the way he wants. That's why Palpatine just folded. :smallsigh:

As an aside, I've wanted to dive into a campaign in SEV for a while now. I used to play SEIV, but found that it got really tedious and repetitive at a certain point. Really, all I wanted to do was sit back and terraform the crap out of solar systems. And build ring worlds. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: And don't get me STARTED on those ships. Stripping out most of the armor? He's going to fold so quickly as soon as he moves to a 'verse that has weaponry that bypasses his shields. Or isn't easily targetable by superweapons. Like fighters. And he stripped the fighter bays and point defenses...

SO MUCH WRONG AAAAAAAGH

[Sith_Happens]

(Yo, dawg, we embedded an enormous cylindrical cannon in your ludicrously huge pointy spaceship so you can overcompensate recursively.)

HELP I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING.

[Trekkin]

EDIT: And don't get me STARTED on those ships. Stripping out most of the armor? He's going to fold so quickly as soon as he moves to a 'verse that has weaponry that bypasses his shields.

Oh, did I not make it clear? He stripped out the shields because they reduced his ships' ability to do damage, since shield recharge and weapon fire drew on the same resource.

[VeliciaL]

Oh, did I not make it clear? He stripped out the shields because they reduced his ships' ability to do damage, since shield recharge and weapon fire drew on the same resource.

Oh god... you did... he seriously doesn't realize that's a terrible idea? There's a reason they build those things with defenses...

No wonder he can't win against the AI :smallsigh:

EDIT: That's the kind of overconfidence that lost the empire the first death star, now that I think of it. Taken to 11,000, because that's how Chief rolls.

[TeChameleon]

... but it's part of the Imperial Regalia of Japan, and was (theoretically) seen in 1989 when Akihito was crowned Emperor (it was apparently heavily shrouded) >.>

Eh, whatever.

Still thoroughly enjoying the schadenfreude of this hideous fanfic trainwreck (trainfic? Fanwreck?) campaign.

[The Glyphstone]

Is the Anonymous comment on the blog supposed to be someone pretending to be CC, or has he somehow managed to stumble on the blog himself?

[Trekkin]

Neither, I think. If they want to stay anon, I'll let them, but I think I know who it is; that writing style seems familiar, assuming a certain level of exhaustion.

CC doesn't play dom3.

[Arbane]

(Crossposted from the blog comments, with additions)
Ow ow ow ow.

Please forgive any typing errors - I think I facepalmed so hard at this that my hand went through my skull. Man, that hurts....

Remind me again why Chief Circle doesn't like Gurren Lagann? it sounds like he's bought into "Bigger is Better" hook line and sinker. (If he somehow ended up running WW2 Germany, I'm sure he'd've ordered mass-production of the Ratte tanks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte).)

Blowing up planets at random, and he somehow deludes himself into thinking he's the good guy? Arrrgh.

But, who needs any more tactical ability than a lemming on crack when you write the universe? The power of a Star Destroyer is insignificant next to the power of the Sue.... :smalltongue:

Edit to add:


Is the Anonymous comment on the blog supposed to be someone pretending to be CC, or has he somehow managed to stumble on the blog himself?

I'm pretty sure that was one of the other players.

[Balmas]

I suspect he would say there's no evidence that it's real, so there's no evidence it's not a katana.

At any rate, new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-sue-system-charge-of-derp-brigade.html).

...Let me get this straight. Marty sends in his fleet of flying phalli, and in one [unit of time] destroys several advanced planets, killing billions, if not trillions of people across the universe.

This is the good guy we're supposed to like and adore?

[VeliciaL]

Blowing up planets at random, and he somehow deludes himself into thinking he's the good guy? Arrrgh.


...Let me get this straight. Marty sends in his fleet of flying phalli, and in one [unit of time] destroys several advanced planets, killing billions, if not trillions of people across the universe.

This is the good guy we're supposed to like and adore?

And the players are "terrorists" to boot. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, Marty.

[TuggyNE]

Still thoroughly enjoying the schadenfreude of this hideous fanfic trainwreck (trainfic? Fanwreck?) campaign.

I'd call it a ficwreck, but that's just me.

[Mewtarthio]

So, Vader is far too untrustworthy to be allowed to live... but he's got Lelouch implementing the key parts of his plan?!

[Kish]

Where oh where have I seen the, "I'll resurrect the greatest military minds ever seen and tell them to follow my plan to the letter" before?

Oh right...http://www.rulit.net/books/pools-of-darkness-read-64510-44.html .

[Trekkin]

So, Vader is far too untrustworthy to be allowed to live... but he's got Lelouch implementing the key parts of his plan?!

Oh, he assumes the absolute loyalty of everyone under him down to the bottom level of his organization as a given. His dislike of Vader is mostly his ableism; he does NOT like cyborgs.

Incidentally, if anyone has any ideas for future posts, we are at a natural pause point. We've skipped over a lot on the way here, certainly.

[Magatsu Izanagi]

Fun fact about supply lines: crews on warships need to eat food to perform their jobs, supply lines also supply food. Not that that makes any difference here. After all, this is the SUE system!
Maybe Star Destroyers have provisions sufficient to keep the crew fed 'til doomsday? Maybe they get stuff to keep their supplies restocked from worlds they conquer? Honestly I don't even know! But hey, I think I'm putting far more thought into this than I'm supposed to.
For what it's worth: According to Wookieepedia (which cites stuff like the various WEG and WotC RPG books), the Victory-class carries enough consumables to sustain the entire crew for 4 years, while the Imperial-class carries enough supplies for 6 years. Which is all I'm going to contribute to this discussion, at least for the time being; I read the previous thread and the blog a while back, and I'm STILL trying to process all that insanity.

[The Fury]

For what it's worth: According to Wookieepedia (which cites stuff like the various WEG and WotC RPG books), the Victory-class carries enough consumables to sustain the entire crew for 4 years, while the Imperial-class carries enough supplies for 6 years. Which is all I'm going to contribute to this discussion, at least for the time being; I read the previous thread and the blog a while back, and I'm STILL trying to process all that insanity.

OK, at least that's fairly sensible. I fully acknowledge my own ignorance with Star Wars canon, for all I knew maybe people in Star Wars only eat for fun.


Oh, he assumes the absolute loyalty of everyone under him down to the bottom level of his organization as a given. His dislike of Vader is mostly his ableism; he does NOT like cyborgs.


Doesn't like cyborgs? What the hell! Alex Murphy, Alita and Inspector Gadget all say cyborgs are awesome!

On an unrelated note, Blackhawk defected, yeah? Because Marty's such a reasonable guy who's making a lot of sense I guess.

[Arbane]

On an unrelated note, Blackhawk defected, yeah? Because Marty's such a reasonable guy who's making a lot of sense I guess.

Hey, Katana-Sues gotta stick together.

Anyway, I've come up with an explanation for what's REALLY going on in Martyland:

He beat the Doctor? Yeah, right. If the likes of Sutekh, Omega, and the Celestial Toymaker couldn't manage it, a bumbler like this would never have a chance. No, Marty wants a universe where every living being thinks the way he does, and octillions of other beings want to not die at his idiotic whims, and the Doctor figured out how to make them ALL happy.

Marty is trapped within a microcosm just big enough to contain his indestructible, catatonic body, endlessly creating delusional scenarios of his multiversal domination. Occasionally some poor souls get sucked into his madness as his psychic powers permeate 'nearby' cosmoses, but that'll pass as he drifts further and further into the void and they escape via death, or simply by gaining the will to walk out of his shabby stories - for all his alleged power, that's one thing he CANNOT stop.

It's a trap he can never possibly escape, since it would require him to acknowledge the possibility of his own failure.

Feel free to make this canon, since Chief Circle can't stop you. :smallbiggrin:

(Brought to you thanks to Doctor Who, Pointland, and Umineko.)

[Jbr208]

Anyway, I've come up with an explanation for what's REALLY going on in Martyland: [Snip]

While not the first to suggest a Doctor created imprisonment, this is probably the best fleshed out. Kudos. I'd give you a cookie, but I make yeast breads so enjoy a batard :smalltongue:

[Arbane]

Oh, he assumes the absolute loyalty of everyone under him down to the bottom level of his organization as a given. His dislike of Vader is mostly his ableism; he does NOT like cyborgs.

He's okay with vampires, but not cyborgs?

Bwah? I'd ask you to explain his 'logic', but that would a; imply he had any, and b: require you to think like him, and I don't think you've had enough head injuries for that.



Incidentally, if anyone has any ideas for future posts, we are at a natural pause point. We've skipped over a lot on the way here, certainly.

Go back and fill in some more of the intervening stupidity? Show us more ways CC fails at both GMing and Humanity 101? Dredge up some more bad rules from his game? I'm sure there's rich lodes of material in all of those...

Edit: oh! See if you can track down any of his OTHER victi 'players', and get their comments on his game!


While not the first to suggest a Doctor created imprisonment, this is probably the best fleshed out. Kudos. I'd give you a cookie, but I make yeast breads so enjoy a batard :smalltongue:

Thank you! Glad you liked it. Mmm, fresh bread...

[VeliciaL]

Awesomeness

This was roughly my thoughts, but put far better than I could. I love it. :smallbiggrin:

[Sith_Happens]

I'm pretty sure that was one of the other players.

Based on the lack of a space between a comma and parentheses at one point and adding an extra "l" to "Lelouch," I'm going to say llechtim, and suddenly I realize that I'm picking on him now which I feel bad about and should probably stop.

Also, +1 to the "the Doctor happened" hypothesis.

[llehctim]

Based on the lack of a space between a comma and parentheses at one point and adding an extra "l" to "Lelouch," I'm going to say llechtim, and suddenly I realize that I'm picking on him now which I feel bad about and should probably stop.

Also, +1 to the "the Doctor happened" hypothesis.

Heh, yeah it was, I was tired and wanted to post without dealing with my google account and whatnot. I am not really competitive with games since it seems pointless to me, but that may be my semi-optimistic nihilism speaking.

+1 to doctor happened (given that I stated he would not accept the CCs actions)
Clearly he was a major player in the time war with his excessive use of time stopping and temporal shenanigans.
Also the doctor does have the ability to do something like that (see the fury and kindness of a timelord'

PS: No need to feel bad, reading it again I could see that conclusion being decently reasonable.

Edit:Also :smallbiggrin:, didn't notice the double l's on llelouch, my first serious character was Llehctim and one of his major enemies was Llolth. Clearly I am too used to double l's. My first and only character to achieve above level 9 (in a campaign), so go figure.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Add another supporter to the Doctor Hypothesis.

[Geordnet]

Add another supporter to the Doctor Hypothesis.
And yet another.


Who else thinks that we should make this the "official" explanation for the Sueniverse? :smallcool:

[VeliciaL]

Who else thinks that we should make this the "official" explanation for the Sueniverse? :smallcool:

*waves hand excitedly* I do I do I do!

[Trekkin]

Even I like it, although I feel worse for his present players now.

Especially the ones for whom CC's current campaign is their introduction to pnp RPGs.

In my defense, I tried to warn them. I tried to tell them to go read SilverClawShift's campaign journal, or Tales of Wyre, or...really anything without Marty in it. Apparently Marty doesn't want them to.

[Theoboldi]

Even I like it, although I feel worse for his present players now.

Especially the ones for whom CC's current campaign is their introduction to pnp RPGs.

In my defense, I tried to warn them. I tried to tell them to go read SilverClawShift's campaign journal, or Tales of Wyre, or...really anything without Marty in it. Apparently Marty doesn't want them to.

So what? Is he just not going to let them play with him if they do? This being Chief Circle, I assume the answer is yes, but it still baffles me just how those people can let him dictate what they read in their spare time and what not.

Also, hi. Been reading this for a while now. +1 to the Doctor-hypothesis, by the way.

[Arbane]

Even I like it, although I feel worse for his present players now.


They can always leave.... Though they probably won't. The Sunk Cost Fallacy is mighty.

[comicshorse]

They can always leave.... Though they probably won't. The Sunk Cost Fallacy is mighty.

The what ?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

The what ?

Sunk cost fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy ). Basically, if you spend time/effort/resources on something, you feel invested in it and don't want to change to something else even if the something else is a better option because if you do that then the time/effort/resources are "wasted." In this case, it would be something like "CC's system is made of absolute fail, but since I've already invested the time and effort to learn the system I should play a game with it to 'get my money's worth'."

[llehctim]

Said campaign hasn't actually started due to technical issues of several of the players and GM having computers needing replacement. I am in it (when it starts), because as a scientist (engineer, but close enough), I am curious how much of the negative experience was due to stress from finals/Senior Year and the fact that CC may just really not like Trekkin (long story, but he might hold a grudge from another campaign the Trekkin was GMing).

[Arbane]

Said campaign hasn't actually started due to technical issues of several of the players and GM having computers needing replacement. I am in it (when it starts), because as a scientist (engineer, but close enough), I am curious how much of the negative experience was due to stress from finals/Senior Year and the fact that CC may just really not like Trekkin (long story, but he might hold a grudge from another campaign the Trekkin was GMing).

O_o

Once again, XKCD explains it all (http://xkcd.com/242/).

Still I expect you'll at least come back with entertaining stories for us all.

[Sith_Happens]

In my defense, I tried to warn them. I tried to tell them to go read SilverClawShift's campaign journal, or Tales of Wyre, or...really anything without Marty in it. Apparently Marty doesn't want them to.

Really? He's actually capable of recognizing a better campaign than his and feeling threatened by it? That is surprising.

Also, in how specific terms did you warn them? Especially, did you mention the part where he feels it's his sworn duty to keep them from ever succeeding at anything so that his literal author avatar can swoop in and teach them the error of their ways?

[Trekkin]

I simply said that it's a good idea to get perspective from more than one campaign, and recommended the aforementioned sources. Then CC launched into his usual sanctimonious "i'd really rather you didn't" speech. The few times I saw the newbies, he was also there, so I couldn't really grab them by the shoulders and shout at them to run for their sanities.

If it helps, they're starting where the last group was exiled, so at least they haven't as far to fall.

[Balmas]

So, they have the pair of starfighters and some handguns vs. Marty, his Empire, his totally-undefeatable generals, his infinite fleet of axially-mounted insanity? Also, what happened to the other players? Did they finally get tired and shove off, after the incident at the MIC?

[Trekkin]

Oh, they played till the end--and in the process destroyed all the future tech, so the new guys are starting in a sort of generic high fantasy/steampunk schizo tech nightmare -- because they were exiled to one of the GM's homebrew settings, and he doesn't know what anachronism means. I just haven't posted those parts yet.

[Sith_Happens]

I simply said that it's a good idea to get perspective from more than one campaign, and recommended the aforementioned sources. Then CC launched into his usual sanctimonious "i'd really rather you didn't" speech. The few times I saw the newbies, he was also there, so I couldn't really grab them by the shoulders and shout at them to run for their sanities.

Was this before or after when it was decided you were going to avoid associating with him any more?


Oh, they played till the end--and in the process destroyed all the future tech, so the new guys are starting in a sort of generic high fantasy/steampunk schizo tech nightmare -- because they were exiled to one of the GM's homebrew settings, and he doesn't know what anachronism means. I just haven't posted those parts yet.

You talking about the Cthulhutech campaign? Didn't that one fall apart right after you left?

[Trekkin]

The CT campaign did. The other players stuck all the way through the campaign before that, and the two ended within a week of each other.

We're still on that prequel campaign in the blog, even after this long.

And we have a guest story (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-beer-mug-paladin.html)! It is hilarious.

[llehctim]

The CT campaign did. The other players stuck all the way through the campaign before that, and the two ended within a week of each other.

We're still on that prequel campaign in the blog, even after this long.

And we have a guest story (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-beer-mug-paladin.html)! It is hilarious.

Hah, that was hilarious, at some point when I get a handle on my job search and when that's going smoothly I'll have to share some of my stories of campaigns. Possibly even a few good ones just to mix things up.

Or better yet my train wreck of a first campaign (that I DMed for lack of a better word) when I was like 10 and thought after a year of playing I could totally do a great campaign... to be fair it was still fun for us.

[Lord Torath]

Now wait, Harris was the one "blacklisted"?!? I'd've thought it would be Leo. He's the one with the DMPC who ignored his players until him Mary Sue was in danger. <sigh> I rather liked Harris's response.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, Harris there got the short end of the stick. Should have thrown out Leo, and maybe Max as well - Harris was just resorting to goofiness to make the game interesting for himself since Leo was power-tripping his Mary Sue and ignoring everyone.

[jindra34]

Yeah, Harris there got the short end of the stick. Should have thrown out Leo, and maybe Max as well - Harris was just resorting to goofiness to make the game interesting for himself since Leo was power-tripping his Mary Sue and ignoring everyone.

Well I wouldn't say that he got the short end of the stick for sure. After all if this is common for the group, it gets him out of ever having to explain why he started gaming with another group (assuming he kept gaming), and they can't blame anyone but themselves for that.

[comicshorse]

I recently finsihed a campaign where one of the players was playing a Drunken Master monk whose chosen weapon was in fact a beer mug :smallsmile:

[Friv]

Man, if I was in that campaign, it would never have gotten to the point that it did.

It would never have gotten to that point because I would have taken Leo up on his little dare, and declared rolls for Spot and Listen actually every two steps.

Just, once per thirty seconds. Two rolls. For an entire session. Non-stop.

[The Fury]

I am sort of tipping my hand as to my anonymity here but what the heck.

Not everyone liked Harris's beer mug solution. There were those that thought that if he wasn't having fun he should've just left, and that derailing the campaign was going too far. Because of this, Harris also had a reputation for "breaking character whenever he got bored."
Obviously, I don't agree. In fact the beer mug antics were about the only thing fun about the campaign.


Well I wouldn't say that he got the short end of the stick for sure. After all if this is common for the group, it gets him out of ever having to explain why he started gaming with another group (assuming he kept gaming), and they can't blame anyone but themselves for that.

Harris did keep gaming and has been in another, far less dysfunctional, group for years.

[The Glyphstone]

A happy ending for Harris, at least.

[Arbane]

It would never have gotten to that point because I would have taken Leo up on his little dare, and declared rolls for Spot and Listen actually every two steps.

Just, once per thirty seconds. Two rolls. For an entire session. Non-stop.

Yeah, that was my immediate reaction, too. 9_9

[VeliciaL]

I was surprised nobody did. I inwardly groaned when I read that he said that, because I always figured the DM is digging their own grave when they say stuff like that.

[The Fury]

Yeah, I recall at least one of us threatened to. There must have been a reason why we didn't though. Sorry, this was years ago and I don't remember everything.

[DiscipleofBob]

If it weren't for specific RL details you revealed about Marty, I would almost assume you were talking about my old college roommate.

He ran a similar game set in this "every media exists" multiverse. He too was overly fond of using DMPC's to railroad the plot, though most of his DMPC's were simultaneously overpowered and pathetic. Like his "legendary hero" the PC's were supposed to escort who was a sad little Kirby-esque prince who played video games all day and was a complete coward, but had a sword made of the one thing that could permanently destroy any and everything. The sad thing is those games can be fun if run well or even just adequately. Sadly, this multiverse that Marty's cooked up seems to be neither.

[Alejandro]

was a sad little Kirby-esque prince who played video games all day and was a complete coward

Let me guess, said roommate could also be described this way? :)

[Friv]

Yeah, I recall at least one of us threatened to. There must have been a reason why we didn't though. Sorry, this was years ago and I don't remember everything.

My suspicion, without knowing anything more than what you've said, is that you did not have the will to ruin your own enjoyment for several hours and enter into a pissing match just to make a point.

And the point would only work if the DM was likely to back down, anyway.

[The Fury]

If it weren't for specific RL details you revealed about Marty, I would almost assume you were talking about my old college roommate.

He ran a similar game set in this "every media exists" multiverse. He too was overly fond of using DMPC's to railroad the plot, though most of his DMPC's were simultaneously overpowered and pathetic. Like his "legendary hero" the PC's were supposed to escort who was a sad little Kirby-esque prince who played video games all day and was a complete coward, but had a sword made of the one thing that could permanently destroy any and everything. The sad thing is those games can be fun if run well or even just adequately. Sadly, this multiverse that Marty's cooked up seems to be neither.

Oh yeah, continuity-spanning campaigns can be a lot of fun for sure. Which is part of the reason why Marty's system and campaign feels like so much squandered potential to me. This is a game where, (in theory,) you could have a spaceship captain, a viking, a vampire hunter, a magical girl and whatever else players wanted to be flying around in a Battlestar trying to stop an omnicidal maniac from wrecking the multiverse. This should be fun!


My suspicion, without knowing anything more than what you've said, is that you did not have the will to ruin your own enjoyment for several hours and enter into a pissing match just to make a point.

And the point would only work if the DM was likely to back down, anyway.

That would make sense, I'll go with that. The point would probably be lost on Leo, considering that he's the guy that would ignore most of his players for his awesome show-down.

[Trekkin]

I'm starting to think the one implies the other. Every story of a bad campaign I've heard of involves a DM pointedly and categorically ignoring player input from the start.

[The Fury]

I'm starting to think the one implies the other. Every story of a bad campaign I've heard of involves a DM pointedly and categorically ignoring player input from the start.

I wouldn't say it's true of every bad campaign. Though in my own experience it is true of the worst campaigns.
There was another DM that had an "optimize or die" philosophy of running games. His campaigns were bad, but he never ignored player input.

After revisiting Beer Mug Paladin it got me thinking that Leo is in some ways not as bad as Chief Circle, but in some others far worse.
As bad as Leo was, his Mary Sue cleric was at least following the same character generation and advancement rules the players were. As bad as Chief Circle was, he never outright called his players stupid or inept, (did he?)

[Trekkin]

As bad as Chief Circle was, he never outright called his players stupid or inept, (did he?)

Directly? no.

He's very fond of very strong implications, though.

[Mr Beer]

I'm starting to think the one implies the other. Every story of a bad campaign I've heard of involves a DM pointedly and categorically ignoring player input from the start.

DMs blatantly pandering to players' whims to the extent of removing challenges can also be really bad. The problem is not as common though.

[The Glyphstone]

DMs blatantly pandering to players' whims to the extent of removing challenges can also be really bad. The problem is not as common though.

And even more rarely heard about, because you almost never find people complaining that their tabletop game is too easy.

[Big Fau]

And even more rarely heard about, because you almost never find people complaining that their tabletop game is too easy.

Except for when the players are used to killer DMs.

[Trekkin]

You know, it occurs to me that this whole blog/thread/hugely extended rant might have had unintended side effects.

I keep trying to work on some of my homebrew and seeing CC's style in everything. Every time I split a skill, I worry it's too fine; every time I try to balance anything I worry it's going to nerf it into uselessness. More insidiously, I'm double- and triple- checking every assumption I make in the name of unifying logic and game balance because it instantly seems silly. It's a bit scary.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

You know, it occurs to me that this whole blog/thread/hugely extended rant might have had unintended side effects.

I keep trying to work on some of my homebrew and seeing CC's style in everything. Every time I split a skill, I worry it's too fine; every time I try to balance anything I worry it's going to nerf it into uselessness. More insidiously, I'm double- and triple- checking every assumption I make in the name of unifying logic and game balance because it instantly seems silly. It's a bit scary.

A good designer should double-check their assumptions, aim for a good balance of realism vs. playability, try to streamline mechanics and make them as intuitive as possible, and so forth. While it may have come about in a less-than-pleasant way with a heaping helping of paranoia on the side, the actual result isn't really a bad thing.

[The Fury]

You know, it occurs to me that this whole blog/thread/hugely extended rant might have had unintended side effects.

I keep trying to work on some of my homebrew and seeing CC's style in everything. Every time I split a skill, I worry it's too fine; every time I try to balance anything I worry it's going to nerf it into uselessness. More insidiously, I'm double- and triple- checking every assumption I make in the name of unifying logic and game balance because it instantly seems silly. It's a bit scary.

The very fact that you acknowledge that you can make a mistake or a bad design decision already puts you well above the Chief and his ilk. Though I guess at the end of the day as long as people have fun playing your homebrew that's what's really important, yeah?

[Fecar]

A good designer should double-check their assumptions, aim for a good balance of realism vs. playability, try to streamline mechanics and make them as intuitive as possible, and so forth. While it may have come about in a less-than-pleasant way with a heaping helping of paranoia on the side, the actual result isn't really a bad thing.

Agreed, and this applies to everything on the DM side of the screen, from choosing/creating the campaign setting to house rules to homebrew to what sources are allowed.

I will make a minor quip about believability vs playability instead of realism vs playability as we are talking about tabletop rpgs, but that is just me being picky.



By the way, I would like to thank everyone for the stories, I have been lurking this thread and blog for a little while now and have really enjoyed it. Despite all the cringing, it has been pretty funny reading up on the miss-adventures.

[DiscipleofBob]

Let me guess, said roommate could also be described this way? :)

Half-right.

He was a lanky scarecrow. He used to be funny and great to hang out with, but then he just got more unstable and depressed over time. He had self-confidence issues and those metamorphosed into this Gollum-esque hatred of others and self-loathing, convincing himself that everyone around him was horribly wrong and out to get him.

I'm sure everyone knows the type.

Multiverse campaigns can be immensely fun, but in my experience it's best not to think about them too hard. Something like Marty's campaign where physics from one universe exploits to another has the inevitable consequence of ignoring one universe's capabilities out of favoritism, and then you have cases where the physics and logistics of the campaign really DON'T make sense when all factors are taken into consideration. It can be really difficult to pull off a consistent setting when players are afficionados when it comes to economics, physics, logistics, or other such things, so in some cases the seeming lack of logic in plans can and probably should be forgiven,

But then I read stuff like carting a giant block of gold through a city in order to pay for stuff subtlely.

[Spuddles]

omg this thread is priceless. I made it to page 17 of the first thread, but wanted to get involved.

Is there a spark notes anywhere? The per post-rage infliction is too high for me to get through 67 pages. I wanted to quote a couple things here from OP because they are SO GOOD.

Honestly, Trekkin, you sound like an AMAZING player, and person in general, and I want you to play in my RL games and be bffs 4ever.

Would the following work as a way to get into a friendship ending "nuh uh" "uh huh!" battle?

Get a character who uses chaos magic- every time he observes a reality inconsistency, make a mark on a piece of paper. Make it a really nice piece of paper, like some rice paper or whatever asians do caligraphy on, and use fancy ink and brush. Not just in character- in real life. At the table. Have an easel set up and stand by it. Make sure you have runes and **** taken from legend- were talking celtic knots, swastikas going the right direction, and everything else from the expanded mythos. Different symbols represent like "alpha level interference, omicron, katana" etc., depending on how particularly derpy your DM's fiat is.

Make sure you write your own setting. Be really enthusiastic about it. Get your DM on board. Make it sort of asian- add some shinjo (I made that word up, you can also do the same!) pseudo-asian mythos. Maybe get the playground to collaborate. We could have like a "fan" setting of your DMs campaign. Pull some animes like Death Note or whatever. Get him 110% on board.

See, we're playing HIS game. You're actually an Authyr.

And we can easily come up with a system where your DM won't catch on to the major premise- DM fiat makes you stronger.

Then play a character where every time DM fiat comes into play, you grow in strength. By the time you get to fight Gary Stu, you have a tapestry of caligraphy paintings all over the room you play games in and then you point out how they all add up to bigger numbers than his. Every time he tries to weasel out of it you pick up your brush and add more.

I think this will work, and by work, I mean it will cause him to flip the table.


The result is a disconcertingly unstable way to turn booze into entropy and fear

That would be such priceless in character dialogue. So many possible witty retorts....


Consider this a full-on trigger warning.

Molecular ecology tech here- that triggered me.


Technically the 'pound', but...I refuse to just give up the metric system.

I've noticed, and it really adds to the mental image I have of you/Cael eyeballing everything and sizing up the reactants needed for large scale synthesis.


It may well have been the Elder Things.

Oh yeah Cthulu Mythos is all about finding out how completely insignificant mankind is, and then going bonkers.

Ultimate Just As Planned cthulhu campaign?

[Sith_Happens]

The campaign ended a while ago.

[Spuddles]

The campaign ended a while ago.

Yeah I see that. At page 44 now. Noticed the time stamps, too.

Rather anticlimatic ending. Playground, you sure diffused that situation into a whole lot of boring :smallannoyed:

[Big Fau]

Yeah I see that. At page 44 now. Noticed the time stamps, too.

Rather anticlimatic ending. Playground, you sure diffused that situation into a whole lot of boring :smallannoyed:

Better than Trekkin ending up in jail or something (although CC could use a trip to the Happy Hotel).

[Trekkin]

I don't know that I'd call it an ending, precisely. I may not be playing with CC anymore, but some other people are, so the horror stories will keep coming if/when CC learns how to use Maptools.

Besides, the ending was half-spoiled by being in real time on the thread. Considered in linear time, it's not so bad.

[Spuddles]

I was hoping a meltdown, flipped table, physical altercation, friendships ruined forever, that sort of thing.

Still not through all this stuff yet; there are some fantastic gems in here, that's for sure.

[The Fury]

... Maybe I'm crazy but I'm sort of glad that none of that happened. Yeah, I guess it doesn't make for good entertainment but it's probably for the best that it did get resolved (mostly) peaceably. And good for Trekkin for being an adult about this.
Meltdowns, name-calling, and ruined friendships are ugly things to see and I wouldn't wish them on anyone. Also, and I mean no offense here, if you really want to see that kind of drama there are plenty of other places to find it.

[Trekkin]

I might be biased, but I like the current ending. What it loses in slapstick it makes up for in me not having had my life ruined, and anyway it would have cheapened the story. Ultimately, the sensible people won; how rare is that?

Besides, we normally played in conference rooms; I'd conservatively estimate it would take three people and a good few minutes to flip one of those tables.:smalltongue:

[Marlowe]

So whatever your college lacked in teaching a sense of objectivity it tried to make up for with really solid furniture?

[Feddlefew]

So whatever your college lacked in teaching a sense of objectivity it tried to make up for with really solid furniture?

Think of it as an investment- when you're students are constantly this close to having a mental breakdown, it's more cost effective to invest in furniture that can't be physically broken down. :smalleek:

[Eldan]

Yeah, I recall at least one of us threatened to. There must have been a reason why we didn't though. Sorry, this was years ago and I don't remember everything.

Absolutely. I'd immediately ask "This overland trip we are taking, how long is it? 10 miles? Okay. Are 1000 spot checks enough? First check, 12. Second check, 15."

[jindra34]

Absolutely. I'd immediately ask "This overland trip we are taking, how long is it? 10 miles? Okay. Are 1000 spot checks enough? First check, 12. Second check, 15."

Your forgetting to ask after each one: 'What do I see' and of course adding a listen and a 'What do I hear'.

[The Fury]

Marlowe, and Feedlefew it's good to see you both again! You were some of my favorite contributors to the original thread.


Absolutely. I'd immediately ask "This overland trip we are taking, how long is it? 10 miles? Okay. Are 1000 spot checks enough? First check, 12. Second check, 15."


Your forgetting to ask after each one: 'What do I see' and of course adding a listen and a 'What do I hear'.

I seem to recall Harris suggesting almost that exact thing. But as Friv said, any point being made by that would probably be lost on Leo. I can almost imagine Leo shooting that hateful glance and asking, "Does anyone try a course of action that is not stupid?"
This is of course assuming that he didn't take the 1000+ Spot/Listen checks to be a joke, and that he could be bothered to give you a ballpark distance for any overland trip. I guess the moral of this story is, "DM not paying attention you? Bludgeon someone with a beer mug until he does!"

[jindra34]

The Fury: Well asking for the information is in part to make it as annoying and exhausting on the DM as possible. After all if your having to re-describe the same thing 4+ (as in the whole group gets behind it) times per round your going to quickly get tired of the repetition. And yes I had a DM propose the rule, and a 6 person group go through with it. And adding actions that allowed more checks for more repetitous info. Lasted 1 session and 2 rounds of combat.

[The Fury]

Jindra: That's true, and I'm glad it turned out better for you than it did for me. I think you may have had a more sensible DM than we did, Leo had to be aware that he was making extra work for himself with his house rules-- I guess he just didn't care.

[jindra34]

Jindra: That's true, and I'm glad it turned out better for you than it did for me. I think you may have had a more sensible DM than we did, Leo had to be aware that he was making extra work for himself with his house rules-- I guess he just didn't care.

Your missing the point of the descriptions. Its not the work, its the exhaustive mental focus (because if you slip and change something that will be used by the player[s]), and the pretty literal fillibustering of the game that drive the point. Not the minor increase in work load.

[Friv]

Jindra: That's true, and I'm glad it turned out better for you than it did for me. I think you may have had a more sensible DM than we did, Leo had to be aware that he was making extra work for himself with his house rules-- I guess he just didn't care.

Yeah, that kind of response is basically just a filibuster. The GM doesn't technically have more work, because nothing at all can get done until he admits the house rule is a bad idea.

This, incidentally, is why doing it probably isn't actually a good idea. Like so many entertaining things, it's more likely to end in bad feelings than in progressive change.

*sigh* I hate being a responsible adult with a conscience sometimes. There's still this little part of me that wants to just be a roving saboteur, joining really terrible games and wrecking them beyond repair.

[Eldan]

Yes, yes. I'm talking big, but in a real game, I'd probably just try to talk with the Gm and if he wasn't willing, go home.

Still. IT's fun to imagine yourself as the righteous game avenger.

[Feddlefew]

Why on earth would someone make players roll their own spot checks, let alone decide when to role them? I just used excel to generate 1,000 random roles and had a note card for each PC with their relevant skills on it. I crossed out each role as it was used, and when the list started to run out (less than 50 checks left) I made a new one. I still did the occasional meaningless die role to spook my players, though.

Anyway,

@The Fury- I got a job and taught myself crochet. I've been following the thread, just too busy to log in and post anything. :smalltongue:

[Trekkin]

And I've been fighting off the financial vampires at my festering septic tank of a school, if anyone was wondering. Fiscal ruin and snark do not mix well; right now any post I'd try to make would just be several pages of capslocked profanity followed by sobbing.

EDIT: Or, in other words, our unofficial school song.

[Arbane]

EDIT: Or, in other words, our unofficial school song.


O_O

...hope the situation gets better, anyway.

[The Fury]

... Damn. Well, hang in there as best you can, Trekkin. I unfortunately lack the vocabulary to say anything more encouraging but hopefully things will turn out better for you.

[Trekkin]

Well, I'm not done for yet.

I also made a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-sue-system-summer-of-science.html).

[jindra34]

So his idea of not railroading is setting landmines everywhere he doesn't want them to go, and let them figure it out from there. Seriously did this guy think the DM from DM of the Rings was actually good?

[Trekkin]

If he ever read DM of the Rings, I'd be amazed.

[jindra34]

If he ever read DM of the Rings, I'd be amazed.
Still marks something that the only comparison I really give is to an over the top, fictional, intentionally bad DM. And that said DM still comes off favorably.

[georgie_leech]

Still marks something that the only comparison I really give is to an over the top, fictional, intentionally bad DM. And that said DM still comes off favorably.

Indeed. Railroady he might be, the DM of the Rings doesn't arbitrarily decide that what his players just did has no consequence. When Legolas one-hit-KO'ed Gollum, he at least stayed dead.

[The Glyphstone]

So his idea of not railroading is setting landmines everywhere he doesn't want them to go, and let them figure it out from there. Seriously did this guy think the DM from DM of the Rings was actually good?

Is that an intentional reference to this particular comic?
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1255

[Scow2]

Is that an intentional reference to this particular comic?
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1255

Sometimes that GM had moments of awesome :3. He was bad, but he was at least believably bad.

[jindra34]

Is that an intentional reference to this particular comic?
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1255

Honestly had I felt like diving through it I probably would have linked to it. So close enough so as to not matter.

[The Fury]

Trekkin, glad to hear you're OK. I tend to worry more than I should.

The engineers though... man! Experts in their field yet they can't work out how to build a basic shelter or use hand tools? Did none of them ever go camping or build a birdhouse as a kid? I almost wonder what they'd say if asked what the simple machines are. "I'm an engineer! Of course I know the simple machines! Micro-transistor, battery, flux capacitor, and nuke, right?"
See, they're not stupid. They're advanced!

As an aside, and forgive my ignorance, I thought that movable type was just cast lead. I guess that's incorrect?

[Trekkin]

As an aside, and forgive my ignorance, I thought that movable type was just cast lead. I guess that's incorrect?

You're mostly right. It was an alloy of lead, antimony, and tin; I think the original was 54% lead, 28% antimony, 18% tin. It's a huge part of what Gutenberg invented to make movable type printing practical, and it'd be time-consuming to rediscover if one didn't know the ratio. Still, it's not like no other metal could ever possibly work.

[Arbane]

Well, I'm not done for yet.

I also made a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-sue-system-summer-of-science.html).

Yay! New posts!

/reads

OW MY BRAIN.


(More, please! :smallbiggrin: )


The engineers though... man! Experts in their field yet they can't work out how to build a basic shelter or use hand tools? Did none of them ever go camping or build a birdhouse as a kid? I almost wonder what they'd say if asked what the simple machines are. "I'm an engineer! Of course I know the simple machines! Micro-transistor, battery, flux capacitor, and nuke, right?"

The phrase 'idiot savant' springs unbidden to my lips...


As an aside, and forgive my ignorance, I thought that movable type was just cast lead. I guess that's incorrect?

You could make a working printing press using wooden blocks, if needed - I think the lead type was just easier and more durable.

[Qwertystop]

You're mostly right. It was an alloy of lead, antimony, and tin; I think the original was 54% lead, 28% antimony, 18% tin. It's a huge part of what Gutenberg invented to make movable type printing practical, and it'd be time-consuming to rediscover if one didn't know the ratio. Still, it's not like no other metal could ever possibly work.

What makes that so much more useful?


Also, got to love "playing Diplomacy by tap-dancing in Morse code"

[VeliciaL]

Marty's games sound like the RPG equivalent to those old adventure games where you just poke the screen randomly until you figure out the "right" way of solving whatever problem you happen to have at the moment. Some of those had seriously weird logic.

[Trekkin]

What makes that so much more useful?


Also, got to love "playing Diplomacy by tap-dancing in Morse code"

Everything I remember about typography is years old and most of it's second-hand; I used to do assistant typesetting for a letterpress printer. Most of this is from conversations with them.

From what I recall, type metal is mostly formulated to capture fine detail from the matrix and preserve it through extended use. The lead makes it ductile, so it fills in all the serifs and so forth, while the tin makes it stiff enough not to deform after repeated printing - and lowers the melting point so it flows well at reasonable temperatures. The antimony mostly counters shrinkage on cooling, and I think it strengthens and hardens it.

It's the balancing act between flowing into the mold and not flowing under the repeated pressure that makes type metal to finicky, if I'm not misremembering anything.

[Qwertystop]

Everything I remember about typography is years old and most of it's second-hand; I used to do assistant typesetting for a letterpress printer. Most of this is from conversations with them.

From what I recall, type metal is mostly formulated to capture fine detail from the matrix and preserve it through extended use. The lead makes it ductile, so it fills in all the serifs and so forth, while the tin makes it stiff enough not to deform after repeated printing - and lowers the melting point so it flows well at reasonable temperatures. The antimony mostly counters shrinkage on cooling, and I think it strengthens and hardens it.

It's the balancing act between flowing into the mold and not flowing under the repeated pressure that makes type metal to finicky, if I'm not misremembering anything.
Ah. So in theory, it could work well enough with another metal if you did large-print sans-serif? Makes sense.

[The Fury]

You could make a working printing press using wooden blocks, if needed - I think the lead type was just easier and more durable.

That's true, larger fonts can be done in wood but these engineers don't know how wood works.

[Big Fau]

So basically every single mindless peon your DM stuck you with was a victim of jackassery crippling overspecialization. How the hell did his Cthullutech setting get advanced enough to develop working, non-hostile nanobots exactly?

[Arbane]

Marty's games sound like the RPG equivalent to those old adventure games where you just poke the screen randomly until you figure out the "right" way of solving whatever problem you happen to have at the moment. Some of those had seriously weird logic.

I've heard that style of 'play' described as 'pixelbitching', which struck me as a very good word for it.


How the hell did his Cthullutech setting get advanced enough to develop working, non-hostile nanobots exactly?

Take your pick:
a: That was invented before The Stupid Plague hit.
b: Because plot.

(BTW, the folks at Something Awful (http://tradwiki.foxxtrot.net/index.php/FATAL_%26_Friends:_B-C#CthulhuTech_.28by_Ettin.29) have been tearing apart Cthulhutech: It seems the idiocy of the setting is not ALL Chief Circle's fault, he's just added his own gallon of dumb on top of what was already there.)


If he ever read DM of the Rings, I'd be amazed.

Is it just me, or does Chief Circle come across as having a crippled sense of humor? Maybe it's just the way you tell this, but I get the impression he wouldn't recognize a joke at two paces without it wearing a nametag.

[The Fury]

So basically every single mindless peon your DM stuck you with was a victim of jackassery crippling overspecialization. How the hell did his Cthullutech setting get advanced enough to develop working, non-hostile nanobots exactly?

Good question, though it's one of many to never receive a satisfying answer. I've been silently collecting questions like those regarding the Chief's DMing style. From this post we have:

Marty allowed the MIC staff to take "anything within reason" with them when they were evacuated, why did this include two starfighters and not a temporary shelter of some kind?

If the players were given starfighters, did they not come with emergency survival kits?

If the starfighters require no fuel yet produce energy, why can't the engineers use them as a power source of some kind?

If the players were given starfighters, were they expected to not use them for anything?

Regarding the "dragons" that aren't really dragons, why are they "angsty and tortured" when they're nigh-godlike in their power? For that matter why is this true of Blackhawk or Marty? It might make sense if they were like the Dark Lords in Ravenloft but they're pretty clearly not.

I'm reasonably confident these questions all have answers though, just not good ones. This is why these posts can make my head spin...



Is it just me, or does Chief Circle come across as having a crippled sense of humor? Maybe it's just the way you tell this, but I get the impression he wouldn't recognize a joke at two paces without it wearing a nametag.

From what I've seen in the previous posts he does have a working sense of humor. Of course, he seems to find different things funny than what I do. For example, I don't find my friends' inability to figure out a dilemma that I didn't explain very well all that funny. I don't think throwing my friend's character in "crazy jail" is funny either. That said, I think whatever the Chief has technically qualifies as a sense of humor.

[VeliciaL]

From what I've seen in the previous posts he does have a working sense of humor. Of course, he seems to find different things funny than what I do. For example, I don't find my friends' inability to figure out a dilemma that I didn't explain very well all that funny. I don't think throwing my friend's character in "crazy jail" is funny either. That said, I think whatever the Chief has technically qualifies as a sense of humor.

The fact that he even calls it "crazy jail" points to a less than stellar sense of humor in the first place...

[CoffeeIncluded]

Simple, Marty-Sue came down from the heavens, magically beamed the one specific path of knowledge needed into their minds, obliterated everything except that, unquestioning slavish obedience to him, and breathing from their minds, and then returned a few years later in accordance to prophecy to take his place as god, lord, master and oh man, how the hell did you stand this?!

[Mewtarthio]

I've heard that style of 'play' described as 'pixelbitching', which struck me as a very good word for it.

In CC's case, I'd lean more towards the "cat-hair mustache"* school of game design.

*Wherein step 1 of disguising yourself as a man with no facial hair is to make a fake mustache out of cat hair. Seriously. Google it.

[The Fury]

The fact that he even calls it "crazy jail" points to a less than stellar sense of humor in the first place...

Oh yeah, we get a glimpse of his ableism there too don't we? Lucky us. Mind you I never said Chief Circle's sense of humor was good, in fact I find it dreadful, I was only acknowledging that it exists.


In CC's case, I'd lean more towards the "cat-hair mustache"* school of game design.

*Wherein step 1 of disguising yourself as a man with no facial hair is to make a fake mustache out of cat hair. Seriously. Google it.

This is a thing that people (and I guess cats) do? My mind is blown. Irreparably.

[georgie_leech]

This is a thing that people (and I guess cats) do? My mind is blown. Irreparably.

Nah, it's just a terribly illogical puzzle from a semi-infamous adventure game. See, you need to use a guy's passport so you can rent a motorcycle, so first you lure him away with candy and pick pocket him. Alas, you look nothing like the poor sap, so you need to disguise yourself as him. So of course, you steal some cat hair in a roundabout fashion using a spray bottle, tape, and an old shed, and then stick it to your face as an ersatz mustache with some maple syrup. Unfortunately, the guy you are impersonating doesn't have a mustache. But fear not, for you use a marker to scribble a mustache on to the passport!

Though in fairness to the game, at least this had a solution that didn't involve praying to the almighty Marty to solve it for you. Convoluted progress is better than none at all.

[VeliciaL]

Oh yeah, we get a glimpse of his ableism there too don't we? Lucky us. Mind you I never said Chief Circle's sense of humor was good, in fact I find it dreadful, I was only acknowledging that it exists.

Yeah, I get that. I was just pointing out that it is, in fact, dreadful. :smalltongue:


Though in fairness to the game, at least this had a solution that didn't involve praying to the almighty Marty to solve it for you. Convoluted progress is better than none at all.

I guess there's some sense of player agency in the former. Some.

[The Fury]

Yeah, I get that. I was just pointing out that it is, in fact, dreadful. :smalltongue:


All I can think to say to that is, "And how!"

[Trekkin]

I forgot this is still a thing. I'm giving it up. Show's over.

Worthless as my time is, I still can't waste it on writing this stuff.

[Sith_Happens]

I forgot this is still a thing. I'm giving it up. Show's over.

Worthless as my time is, I still can't waste it on writing this stuff.

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/vader.jpg (http://nooooooooooooooo.com/)

[The Fury]

I understand. You probably have more important things to deal with now, right? Besides, if you're not having fun with this anymore it probably is time to quit. At the very least your last few posts on this thread seem to suggest that you're under a lot of stress. Of course you need to take care of yourself first and if you can't write updates for this anymore, then that's OK.

[kardar233]

I forgot this is still a thing. I'm giving it up. Show's over.

Worthless as my time is, I still can't waste it on writing this stuff.

That's probably a good decision on your part; whatever you have to do in the real world is likely more important than providing random internet-goers with their daily dose of schadenfreude.

If you ever feel like writing it again, though, I'd love to see more. Your comedic style is dry and hilarious and well worth reading.

[Arkhosia]

Congrats for closing your blog!
Judging from the content, I assume that it was due not only because of not a lot of time, but also due to lack of bad stories, and therefore that would mean you now have a great lack of horrible experiences of wrecked games.

[TuggyNE]

Congrats for closing your blog!
Judging from the content, I assume that it was due not only because of not a lot of time, but also due to lack of bad stories, and therefore that would mean you now have a great lack of horrible experiences of wrecked games.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he didn't finish going through the full wreckage of past games yet.

Deletion of past articles is a sad, though.

[Trekkin]

It's a precaution, tuggyne.

It's something I put on the internet not related to optimizing my personal brand.

Therefore it must die.

I'm learning quickly, am I not?

[Arbane]

It's a precaution, tuggyne.

It's something I put on the internet not related to optimizing my personal brand.

Therefore it must die.

I'm learning quickly, am I not?

As far as we were concerned, your 'personal brand' is 'gaming humor writer'.

Oh, well.

A little advance warning so we could grab copies for our own amusement would've been nice.

Thanks for what you did write, anyway. It was funny.

[Morbis Meh]

*sends a lone tear* Thank you Trekkin, your adversity and trollish pursuits shall be passed on through every gaming table I happen to sit at. May the dice gods look kindly upon ye fellow adventurer whilst smiting Ao-Sue and his weaboo egomanic creator!

[Sith_Happens]

It's a precaution, tuggyne.

It's something I put on the internet not related to optimizing my personal brand.

Therefore it must die.

I'm learning quickly, am I not?

I would dispute whether the lesson learned is the correct one, not to mention that this particular thing you put on the Internet you did so anonymously.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

A little advance warning so we could grab copies for our own amusement would've been nice.

Googling "cache:[address]" will get you a cached copy of a page (like this (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?channel=fs&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Firolledazero.blogspot.com%2 F)) for a while after the site goes down, so you can download a copy that way if you do it before the cache goes away, just don't share it around or that would defeat the purpose of taking down the blog.

[Lord Torath]

Sad to see the end. Thanks for sharing with us while you did! I guess the most important thing to take away from this is to be very grateful not to be one of his players! to recognize any bits of Chief Circle in our own DMing styles, and be aware of any Marty-Stu's in our own campaigns.

Thanks again, Trekkin! (and best of luck in your next gaming group!)

[Trekkin]

Googling "cache:[address]" will get you a cached copy of a page (like this (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?channel=fs&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Firolledazero.blogspot.com%2 F)) for a while after the site goes down, so you can download a copy that way if you do it before the cache goes away, just don't share it around or that would defeat the purpose of taking down the blog.


Darn, really?

Guess it's true then.

Welp, gimme a second, I'll go restore everything. If I can't hide the fact that I'm not a sociopathic sycophantic robot from employers, I might as well embrace it.

EDIT: And, by the by, sorry. I'm a bit...okay, actually, a lot barking mad right now.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Darn, really?

Guess it's true then.

Welp, gimme a second, I'll go restore everything. If I can't hide the fact that I'm not a sociopathic sycophantic robot from employers, I might as well embrace it.

Embrace it with pride. Any employer who does want to hire a sociopathic sycophantic robot is not an employer you want to work for.

[VeliciaL]

EDIT: And, by the by, sorry. I'm a bit...okay, actually, a lot barking mad right now.

Don't be. By all accounts the situation you're in sounds really freaking stressful right now, probably enough to drive most people mad.

I doubt I'm alone in saying my thoughts are with you and I hope things turn out for the best, or at least not the worst.

EDIT:

Embrace it with pride. Any employer who does want to hire a sociopathic sycophantic robot is not an employer you want to work for.

Ditto this, ditto this a million times.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The world is not your school, Trekkin. The world will laugh along with you.

[Arbane]

Embrace it with pride. Any employer who does want to hire a sociopathic sycophantic robot is not an employer you want to work for.

What he said.

This is strictly my own experience, but despite the horror stories you might hear about employers scrutinizing everything you've ever written on the internet, I'm pretty sure most don't do that.

I can base this on the fact that I still somehow manage to find jobs. :smallbiggrin: Besides, you're not using your real name on your blog OR here, how's the Omnicorp Loyalty Office going to figure out it's you?

[Sith_Happens]

I can base this on the fact that I still somehow manage to find jobs. :smallbiggrin: Besides, you're not using your real name on your blog OR here, how's the Omnicorp Loyalty Office going to figure out it's you?

Maybe he was hoping to get a job at the NSA? We tabletop gamers are an extremely dangerous lot, after all.

[Feddlefew]

Maybe he was hoping to get a job at the NSA? We tabletop gamers are an extremely dangerous lot, after all.

Wouldn't sociopathy be a bonus?

From experience I can say that most people who take having a "personal brand" seriously do so because they have A) some horrific thing they're trying to cover up, B) lack a personality* and a trying to fake it enough to pass as human, or C) are marketers.


*I don't mean as in the sense of a boring person. I mean literally lack a personality- the kind of person who decides what they like based around what will make other people like them. They're creepy.

[Alejandro]

I have participated in more than a few recent evaluations of job candidates. We basically never go digging online for stuff about the person unless it's personal curiosity.

What matters is whether or not you meet the job reqs (education, experience, etc) whether or not the interviewers liked you, and whether or not you have an 'in' at the place of employment.

[llehctim]

I made up a term for the problems Marty Stu had:0th world problems:when gods an other omnipotent being whine about their minor hardships.
Also I have currently decided that since I have wanted to try GMing for a while, I would do so now, using what I have learned, and from the responses of the players I have been doing fairly well, although Internet logistics make it slightly difficult to get a good gaming schedule, but hey silver lining.

And as a Side note, the unlimited power as a GM takes alot of the fun out of making characters, since I'm not struggling with them on their quest for power or to achieve their goal, so I can't see why one would crave it. Its the players that bring the world and my NPCs to life, otherwise they seem static and predictable to me.

[The Grue]

Tek:

Are you "closing down" the blog as in "Right, that's the end, stop the program"? Or as in "I personally will no longer write posts"?

Because I think a niche exists for a repository of stories, kind of like Not Always Right/Clients From Hell except about RPGs. I'm sure these forums alone can supply no shortage of submissions.

[Arkhosia]

I think that you should do what the grue suggested if you have spare time for it, as not only is the hilarity a added bonus, but it might help some DMs have an idea of what to never do.

[Trekkin]

It's certainly worth trying. If I'm ever stuck like that again, I'll at least leave the blog open, although I don't know how to set up a way to recieve submissions.

Anyway, new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-sue-system-moonballs-tower.html). First of many, barring the unforeseen.

[jindra34]

On why people running the game (or at least offer to) give people hidden agendas and secrets that could 'wreck' the game: Its because it makes things more interesting. I remember a game I ran once where I did that (offering the option of being a double agent with benefits) in a royal guard type situation. Most of the plot/action was on each player making subtle actions to make sure that events turned out in their favor, and it was fun. Just not an everyday regular thing for a campaign.

[Trekkin]

Offered is fine. Enforced is what I can never see my way clear to doing.

[The Glyphstone]

What do you call a young undead spellcaster who used his magic to make himself incredibly wealthy?

A nouveau lich.:smallbiggrin:

[Sith_Happens]

Oh dear. Turns out when I made that post a while back about the likelihood of llehctim's Cthulhutech swordswoman facing a disproportionate quantity of tentacled enemies, I was severely behind the curve.:smallsigh::smalleek:

Also, it's been said before, but someone show this guy Paranoia. Not that I believe he wouldn't find some painfully unclever way to screw up even the game/system perfectly tailored to his "GMing" "style" in every other campaign.

[Arbane]

Observations:

YAY! New suffering from Trekkin!

It doesn't surprise me a bit that Chief Circle like Tomb of Horrors. It's the ultimate "Read the GM's mind or DIE" adventure, and thus perfect training for his future telepathy-drones.

You should've called the sword "Windbreaker", because I am a 5-year-old.

That pun was beyond terrible. I approve.

[The Fury]

It doesn't surprise me a bit that Chief Circle like Tomb of Horrors. It's the ultimate "Read the GM's mind or DIE" adventure, and thus perfect training for his future telepathy-drones.

Kind of, though the Chief is apparently overlooking something regarding Tomb of Horrors: If he runs it by the book over and over again, and he apparently does, eventually the players are going to catch onto what deathtrap is in which room or at least have a good guess. After that, it's not really fun or challenging for anyone anymore.



You should've called the sword "Windbreaker", because I am a 5-year-old.


Ha! Yeah, if I ever found a katana called "Windblade" I'd probably start calling it that too. Also, the title for this post had me giggling.

[Arbane]

Kind of, though the Chief is apparently overlooking something regarding Tomb of Horrors: If he runs it by the book over and over again, and he apparently does, eventually the players are going to catch onto what deathtrap is in which room or at least have a good guess. After that, it's not really fun or challenging for anyone anymore.


Chief doesn't seem to value 'originality' very highly, and I'm pretty sure he regards his players having 'fun' as irrelevant.

(And them knowing where all the deathtraps are would explain how two characters managed to get through alive.)

[Sir_Mopalot]

I think that the worst thing about the whole hangman issue is that with a little tweaking (and not using a proper noun), a sort of "minigame" like hangman could be pretty interesting, if you tend more toward the style where players are required to back up their character's scores. You need to be relatively personable if you want to successfully play a high-Cha character? Better have a decent vocabulary if you want to be a high-Int character. Of course, at the end of a marathon session when everyone's angry is a bad place for that, and it should be more thoughtful than "knowledge: arcana is too easy".

Also, generally you just give the players any punctuation in your word/phrase, or at least that's how I've always played it.

[Arbane]

if you tend more toward the style where players are required to back up their character's scores. You need to be relatively personable if you want to successfully play a high-Cha character? Better have a decent vocabulary if you want to be a high-Int character.

...And if you want to play a fighter, you'd better be able to decapitate someone with one swing of a battle-axe in real life, right?

[Sir_Mopalot]

...And if you want to play a fighter, you'd better be able to decapitate someone with one swing of a battle-axe in real life, right?

Oh no, certainly, I don't follow that style myself, it just saddened me because, couched properly, it could be an interesting mechanic, whereas it was just frustrating and terrible here.

[Trekkin]

Maybe hangman as a minigame could work, but it should at least be represented in-game -- and even then, I can't help but think it would break immersion for some people, especially when they can't roll for a solution. The only time I get close to that sort of out-of-game puzzle solving is when there are clues hidden in whatever documents my players receive.

It's not that puzzles aren't good in games, or that every puzzle needs to be solvable with an Intelligence roll, but I try to work mine more subtly into the overall plot. I remember I once populated a roughly toroidal dungeon according to the Chinese zodiac, with dire rats and so on, and I was sweating bullets hoping they'd figure it out before they got to Dragon.

Critically, though, even if they didn't solve it (and therefore went in unprepared), they still had a good chance of winning -- and even more importantly, solving the puzzle wasn't something they did instead of playing, it was something they did by playing.

I've never heard of a style where a character's stats depended on the player's "real-life" stats; I would think it limits the ability of players to roleplay fun things, which is rather antithetical to the point.

[The Fury]

Chief doesn't seem to value 'originality' very highly, and I'm pretty sure he regards his players having 'fun' as irrelevant.

(And them knowing where all the deathtraps are would explain how two characters managed to get through alive.)

It's pretty clear by now that the Chief doesn't care about his players having fun, but having a dungeon where there are no surprises for the players can't be very fun for the DM either. Maybe. I don't know.


With regards to the Hangman thing, it's placement certainly didn't help it. Maybe I'm just getting old but a ten hour long session sounds like it's really pushing it already. Seriously, what the heck was wrong ending the session, allowing the players to rest and clear their heads then deal with the phylactery business?
That said, if the characters themselves actually are playing Hangman in character with an NPC as a way of getting clues-- well, that's contrived and silly but that sounds better to me.

[Arkhosia]

Love the thought process: "players want to get on with their lives, must stop them! Ooh! How about a game of Hangman! Yeah, that will do it."

[VeliciaL]

Wait, he played hangman as a way of giving out an in-game hint? This guy keeps finding new and amusing* ways of sucking at DMing.


You should've called the sword "Windbreaker", because I am a 5-year-old.

That pun was beyond terrible. I approve.

Found in Moonballs tower, no less.



*When observed at a distance.

[Arbane]

It's not that puzzles aren't good in games, or that every puzzle needs to be solvable with an Intelligence roll, but I try to work mine more subtly into the overall plot. I remember I once populated a roughly toroidal dungeon according to the Chinese zodiac, with dire rats and so on, and I was sweating bullets hoping they'd figure it out before they got to Dragon.

Critically, though, even if they didn't solve it (and therefore went in unprepared), they still had a good chance of winning -- and even more importantly, solving the puzzle wasn't something they did instead of playing, it was something they did by playing.

Oh, that's kind of neat. What did you have for Ram? (And Rooster? A cockatrice?)

And as you say, even if they didn't guess 'dragon', they could still beat a dragon (or three) by brute-force and good die-rolls. Failing to guess 'dragon' didn't mean they got to contemplate their navels for three hours. :smallyuk:


I've never heard of a style where a character's stats depended on the player's "real-life" stats; I would think it limits the ability of players to roleplay fun things, which is rather antithetical to the point.

Eh, some 'old school revival' OD&D clones want things to depend on 'player skill' - ie, if you as a player didn't know that nightshade is poison, well, sucks to be you when you go foraging. I am not a fan of that style.

[TuggyNE]

I remember I once populated a roughly toroidal dungeon according to the Chinese zodiac, with dire rats and so on, and I was sweating bullets hoping they'd figure it out before they got to Dragon.

Critically, though, even if they didn't solve it (and therefore went in unprepared), they still had a good chance of winning -- and even more importantly, solving the puzzle wasn't something they did instead of playing, it was something they did by playing.

That's pretty slick.


Eh, some 'old school revival' OD&D clones want things to depend on 'player skill' - ie, if you as a player didn't know that nightshade is poison, well, sucks to be you when you go foraging. I am not a fan of that style.

Yeahhh, that tends, in the end, to reduce all real challenges to "guess what the DM is thinking"/"solve a problem that most specialists in the field would find challenging, and do it in five minutes flat". Everything else is solvable by being enough of an armchair polymath IRL. Not that being an armchair polymath is a bad thing exactly, but it does tend to limit the audience.

[Arkhosia]

The classic "smartphone under the table" tactic helps too. :smallamused:

[Sir_Mopalot]

I just see it as a mental version of the Jenga system used in Dread. The advantage of Jenga, obviously, is that it works in concert with the tone of the game, and it's possible to predict how many pulls it'll take to knock over the tower, which isn't the case here. I just think that as the (or one of the) central mechanic(s) of a different system it could be interesting, in a Bookworm Adventures kind of way.

[llehctim]

Observations:

YAY! New suffering from Trekkin!

It doesn't surprise me a bit that Chief Circle like Tomb of Horrors. It's the ultimate "Read the GM's mind or DIE" adventure, and thus perfect training for his future telepathy-drones.

You should've called the sword "Windbreaker", because I am a 5-year-old.

That pun was beyond terrible. I approve.

The ability to use a ranged attack with ki/magic whatever was refered to as windblade, I actually was making Rick's character a sword I though might be interesting since magic item creation with a history of why and what its used for is something I like doing, The sword was named Winterflame, and had blue fire that did cold damage (existed in 2e with fire shield blue i just reinvented it here).
Later there was the uberkatana that when drawn glowed blue because "it was cutting the atoms and causing 'cherenkov radation' (which ill give does release a blue light, but still) called a japanese name that translated (probably) to wind-cutter, dunno if we are leaving important item names out.

-and in the regards to hangman breaking immersion, WHAT IMMERSION, WoW grinding had more immersion, because you can get out of stun locks at least.

-Ive had 10 hour sessions that were amazing before, but it has to be a finale or epic battle, etc to keep it interesting.

PS: I was the only one who had done the tomb of horror before (twice) and so wasn't allowed to help the other player, who tends to not like puzzle games, and liked the planning/fighting aspects and the freedom of RPGs.

[The Fury]

Oh yeah, telling the other players how to not fall into a meat-grinder is clearly bad form.

I seem to recall Trekkin mentioning something about Marty showing up and taking someone's magic katana. Maybe that's why I'm so on board with the idea of renaming a renowned sword into a fart joke-- when I know the DM is going to punish me anyway I like to do something to deserve it.

Yeah ten hour sessions have their place, sure but once per campaign if that often. After all, people have lives that they can't put on hold just because some DM wants their campaign to be EPIC.

Also, wait... the SUE system allows you to get inescapably stunlocked?

[Trekkin]

Technically, the system itself doesn't encourage inescapable stunlocks (EDIT: grapplelocks?), being a straight d20 clone. The problem is that most monsters get immense racial grapple bonuses. A +20 racial bonus is common...in a d20 system where grapples are opposed rolls.

He refuses to see any problem with this.

Now, when grappled, one can, theoretically, do things other than contest the grapple. It just takes up a lot of a given turn's actions automatically and slaps an arbitrary (read: ludicrously high) penalty on doing anything else, and I think anything you do in a grapple provokes at least one AoO.

So yeah, you can't be inescapably stunlocked...somehow.

On the subject of long sessions: I've done a few in the 8-hour range, usually on Friday nights before breaks, and I always tried to schedule them in multiple sections. Usually, we'd go for a while after classes until the dining halls were near closing, go get dinner, and eventually reconvene until around midnight. Putting people in a room for eight hours straight for anything is deeply un-fun; see the SATs, for example.

Even then, I try to make them suitably epic and provide enough soda that people are at least halfway awake.

[Sith_Happens]

because "it was cutting the atoms and causing 'cherenkov radation'

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6yurqBKco1qanvnfo1_400.jpg

[Eldan]

I was just thinking the same thing. That's not what Cherenkov Radiation is.

[Trekkin]

Not to mention the whole idea is ripped off of Death's various implements in Discworld. Susan's sword in Hogfather, anyone?

Admittedly it's not Cherenkov radiation, but the slicing does cause the blue glow...

[The Grue]

I was just thinking the same thing. That's not what Cherenkov Radiation is.

Clearly what's happening is the sword is being swung faster than the speed of light in its surrounding OH GOD I CAN'T KEEP GOING IT'S JUST TOO STUPID

[The Fury]

Not to mention the whole idea is ripped off of Death's various implements in Discworld. Susan's sword in Hogfather, anyone?

Admittedly it's not Cherenkov radiation, but the slicing does cause the blue glow...

The idea of Marty taking over Discworld made me die a little inside. I can see him marching straight up to Vetinari and giving a speech on why he's a better choice to run Ankh Mohrpork and getting it.
I can take some comfort in that this seems unlikely, as Discworld doesn't have any Starwars-like super-tech and a magic system so crazy that most experts don't seem to understand it very well.

[Mr Beer]

Not to mention the whole idea is ripped off of Death's various implements in Discworld. Susan's sword in Hogfather, anyone?

Admittedly it's not Cherenkov radiation, but the slicing does cause the blue glow...

This was my thought. I think he read about Death's scythe and remembered that Cherenkov radiation is blue and put two and two together to make five.

[The Glyphstone]

The idea of Marty taking over Discworld made me die a little inside. I can see him marching straight up to Vetinari and giving a speech on why he's a better choice to run Ankh Mohrpork and getting it.
I can take some comfort in that this seems unlikely, as Discworld doesn't have any Starwars-like super-tech and a magic system so crazy that most experts don't seem to understand it very well.

Discworld runs on narrative casuality. Marty is an Aouthyr, who writes his own narrative. It's basically his dream world.

[Arbane]

Discworld runs on narrative casuality. Marty is an Aouthyr, who writes his own narrative. It's basically his dream world.

But he's so BAD at it....

[georgie_leech]

But he's so BAD at it....

Not from his perspective he isn't. I'd rather keep it as him in this world where he's just delusional than in the universe where that stuff might actually be possible. :eek:

Much obliged to TuggyNE for pointing out where to find the larger smilies.

[TuggyNE]

Anyone know how to make those bigger? That just does not convey the horror of the thought.

Yes; just type :eek: instead of :smalleek:, or poke through the full list with the More link.

[Sith_Happens]

Discworld runs on narrative casuality. Marty is an Aouthyr, who writes his own narrative. It's basically his dream world.

Narrative causality also usually dictates that the one mind-raping people, causally screwing with reality, and conquering entire universes via terror tactics is the villain and will eventually be defeated.

[Trekkin]

Somehow, I finished a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-sue-system-marty-chan.html)!

This one was...interesting to research, albeit minimally.

[jindra34]

Thats... all I can say is that is YET to reach surreal?

[Arkhosia]

Hmmm... The Emperor grants the players a rental of the most powerful sword in existence after they kill a bunch of psionic creatures that he probably could have killed himself with Riceball the Ubersword.
Seems legit.

[llehctim]

Hmmm... The Emperor grants the players a rental of the most powerful sword in existence after they kill a bunch of psionic creatures that he probably could have killed himself with Riceball the Ubersword.
Seems legit.

Really it was less the psionics than the hordes of constructs that made it really bad, also you though crit fails were bad before, just wait till you fail 2 spells before a huge battle as suffer massive penalties the whole adventure.

Also I mentioned in the blog, the emporer was basically in my opinion the exquivalent of a lvl 5 aristocrat aka useless and didnt have the sword.

EDIT: Also all hail Onegiri the sword that can slice through anything like it (the target) was a riceball) :smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

I like Riceball better than Windbreaker as the sword's name. Keep using that one.

[Trekkin]

Different sword, I'm afraid, and there's still one to come.

There were a lot of katanas in this game.

[llehctim]

I appologize that one of them was mine, but I just wanted to make the most powerful weapon so we wouldn't die (or so that maybe the enemies would die faster and combat would be less long)

[CoffeeIncluded]

This is...oh my god this is glorious. I am sending this to my Dm, who is now just finishing an arc where we save a samurai village--except that he actually played it well!

[VeliciaL]

This would be hilarious if it were an intentional parody. I can't decide if the fact that it isn't makes it more or less hilarious.


Thats... all I can say is that is YET to reach surreal?

My thoughts exactly :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

Different sword, I'm afraid, and there's still one to come.

There were a lot of katanas in this game.

Only 1? Pity, with 2 more and a few lengths of chain you could make a pair of katana-chucks.

[Arkhosia]

I'll give you one better, glyphstone.:smallsmile:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/190371/
EDIT: dang it! Just look up ninjas with guitars.

[llehctim]

Only 1? Pity, with 2 more and a few lengths of chain you could make a pair of katana-chucks.

No, I was annoyed enough that the Weapon i made (with weeks of in game time and many failures, with crafting magic items being weird) and put a decent amount of thought making to play to Ricks style as well as my style as the crafter/enchanter was finally completed and pretty damn awesome in my opinion. Then was replaced as the biggest fish in the pond by something that was explicitly stated was superior to any weapon a mortal could make. I tend to be offended by absolutes like that. Also my weapon was rendered near-useless since every boss was pretty much impossible without the ubersword and it ended up dropped and abandoned in many of our fights until the end where i picked it up and fixed it, an effort in futility, but I wasn't going to let it break. So my masterpiece will forever be known in tales as "that other sword noone cares about". They will never be combined, for they are destined to lock blades with each other in the future mwhhahahahaha.

sry I'm feeling ranty due to frustration with my job search, and that is a bit of a touchy subject for me (later developments etc.)

[Trekkin]

To be fair, hctim, I cared about the sword. It's going in the very next post, actually.

Still, we're nearing the end of the prequel campaign, finally. At the outside, it'll take three more posts before I can finally start going into the CT campaign. In retrospect, a ~25-post prequel is pushing it, but eh.

[The Fury]

So... The Emperor never takes off the überkatana Riceball for any reason during the day and sleeps with it under his pillow... Does he also take it with him in the shower?

Also, this is a feudal Japan knockoff yet in schools kids wear sailor suits but not gakuran? Does this mean that only girls have school uniforms or are all students girls for their entire high school career? I guess they revert to whatever gender their future requires and morph into rice-farmers, samurai, ninja or geisha on graduation. I have no idea why I just typed all that other than to demonstrate that my brain is sometimes my worst enemy.

[VeliciaL]

So... The Emperor never takes off the überkatana Riceball for any reason during the day and sleeps with it under his pillow... Does he also take it with him in the shower?

Also, this is a feudal Japan knockoff yet in schools kids wear sailor suits but not gakuran? Does this mean that only girls have school uniforms or are all students girls for their entire high school career? I guess they revert to whatever gender their future requires and morph into rice-farmers, samurai, ninja or geisha on graduation. I have no idea why I just typed all that other than to demonstrate that my brain is sometimes my worst enemy.

They go into cocoons, like butterflies.

[Arbane]

Still, we're nearing the end of the prequel campaign, finally. At the outside, it'll take three more posts before I can finally start going into the CT campaign. In retrospect, a ~25-post prequel is pushing it, but eh.

It's be pushing it if it wasn't so hilariously awful in its OWN right. Take your time.


sry I'm feeling ranty due to frustration with my job search, and that is a bit of a touchy subject for me (later developments etc.)

Ugh, my sympathy. Job-hunting has to be one of the most self-esteem-ablating activities possible outside of high school.


This would be hilarious if it were an intentional parody. I can't decide if the fact that it isn't makes it more or less hilarious.

It makes it Bulldada: "That which is great because it doesn't realize how bad it is."

[VeliciaL]

To be fair, hctim, I cared about the sword. It's going in the very next post, actually.

Still, we're nearing the end of the prequel campaign, finally. At the outside, it'll take three more posts before I can finally start going into the CT campaign. In retrospect, a ~25-post prequel is pushing it, but eh.

That's kinda part of the humor. This is so bad, it takes a 25-post prequel just to put perspective on it. Not to mention that said prequel is filled with its own WTFery.


Ugh, my sympathy. Job-hunting has to be one of the most self-esteem-ablating activities possible outside of high school.

I'll second that. I have anxiety issues, and job hunting is one of the worst activities I can engage in for that. My sympathies as well.

[Silverbit]

He pluralizes shogun?! Most of what I know of Japanese history comes from the Total War games and the odd film, but that's like having a plural of supreme ruler (not to mention Shogun means basically generalissimo. You don't get made it by the emperor. Hold on, I'm applying logic to Marty. I must stop.).

And I add my voice to those who would name the SUPREME ULTIMATE GOD-KATANA Onigiri. Let Rice-ball cleave the foes of Marty!

[Sir_Mopalot]

He pluralizes shogun?! Most of what I know of Japanese history comes from the Total War games and the odd film, but that's like having a plural of supreme ruler (not to mention Shogun means basically generalissimo. You don't get made it by the emperor. Hold on, I'm applying logic to Marty. I must stop.).

And I add my voice to those who would name the SUPREME ULTIMATE GOD-KATANA Onigiri. Let Rice-ball cleave the foes of Marty!

My problem with it is less that there's more than one, in a less unified setting you might have plenty of people with a valid claim to call themselves shogun. My problem with it is that there's no such thing as a plural form of a Japanese noun. One katana, many katana. One samurai, many samurai. You get the point.

[VeliciaL]

My problem with it is less that there's more than one, in a less unified setting you might have plenty of people with a valid claim to call themselves shogun. My problem with it is that there's no such thing as a plural form of a Japanese noun. One katana, many katana. One samurai, many samurai. You get the point.

In other words, it's someone expressing love for Japanese culture, despite not even knowing basics of the language, much less the culture behind it.

[Arkhosia]

My problem with it is less that there's more than one, in a less unified setting you might have plenty of people with a valid claim to call themselves shogun. My problem with it is that there's no such thing as a plural form of a Japanese noun. One katana, many katana. One samurai, many samurai. You get the point.

I understand maybe Ninjas or Katanas (that's cultural norm), but SHOGUNS!

[VeliciaL]

I understand maybe Ninjas or Katanas (that's cultural norm), but SHOGUNS!

I wonder if multiple shogun suffer from Conservation of Ninjutsu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjutsu)...

WARNING: TVTROPES

[Sir_Mopalot]

I wonder if multiple shogun suffer from Conservation of Ninjutsu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjutsu)...

WARNING: TVTROPES

To take that far, far too seriously, yes. Given a finite pool of military resources, the more it gets split up, the less effective it will be at any given task.

And yeah, Ninjas I can almost see, but this is just emblematic of Chief Circle's problem. He takes the most shallow glance at a topic, and decides that he's mastered it. People use medieval trappings because they're familiar, because we don't have to do all that much additional research to display it.

[Trekkin]

And I add my voice to those who would name the SUPREME ULTIMATE GOD-KATANA Onigiri. Let Rice-ball cleave the foes of Marty!

Not to be pedantic, but that really is its name. Marty, for all his professed ability to "speak Japanese", lets his pronunciation go all over the place.

Literally six times out of ten, it was "the dreaded sword...ONIGIRI!"

I'm hiding player and character names by request. Everything else is pretty much my best guess at how to spell whatever Marty was blithering about.

[Arbane]

Also, this is a feudal Japan knockoff yet in schools kids wear sailor suits but not gakuran? Does this mean that only girls have school uniforms or are all students girls for their entire high school career? I guess they revert to whatever gender their future requires and morph into rice-farmers, samurai, ninja or geisha on graduation. I have no idea why I just typed all that other than to demonstrate that my brain is sometimes my worst enemy.


No, the boys wear sailor-suits, too.

Now MY brain can be your worst enemy. :smallbiggrin:

[VeliciaL]

No, the boys wear sailor-suits, too.

Now MY brain can be your worst enemy. :smallbiggrin:

I'm picturing all the boys in skirts now... that's correct, right? :smallbiggrin:

[The Fury]

No, the boys wear sailor-suits, too.

Now MY brain can be your worst enemy. :smallbiggrin:


I'm picturing all the boys in skirts now... that's correct, right? :smallbiggrin:

Eh, that's actually not so bad. Nothing I haven't seen in real life, anyway.

[Arkhosia]

Eh, that's actually not so bad. Nothing I haven't seen in real life, anyway.

Agreed.
one word: Mankini.

[Trekkin]

Not to hamper your rampant speculation with facts, but actually I can't. Marty never bothered to define male high school uniforms.

Defaulting to general Marty sensibilities, this would probably mean there is no uniform...but anything worn by outsiders would be wrong, just in case his players were thinking of disguising as students somehow.

I'm jumping the gun a bit, but that was one of his favorite ways of defeating disguises both magical and mundane, especially in the later campaign; they didn't affect clothing, no one knew what the right clothing was, and even with the right clothing demonstrably to hand it's either the wrong size or we didn't know "how to wear it".

Admittedly, we didn't have any points in Wearing Boilersuits, but still...

This worked even when there was no uniform at all, or only an informal uniform like a fashion -- and, I suspect, he left this and certain later data about clothing out precisely to foil attempts by the players to blend in.

[Arbane]

I'm jumping the gun a bit, but that was one of his favorite ways of defeating disguises both magical and mundane, especially in the later campaign; they didn't affect clothing, no one knew what the right clothing was, and even with the right clothing demonstrably to hand it's either the wrong size or we didn't know "how to wear it".

Admittedly, we didn't have any points in Wearing Boilersuits, but still...


I am pretty certain it is NOT POSSIBLE for a PC in his game to have enough skill points to achieve basic competence. If they somehow got 100 skill-points, there will suddenly be 200 skills.

Is he still planning on publishing this thing? I weep for the trees that will die for this doorstopper....

[Trekkin]

Well, he's still trying to run at least one campaign in it, so as far as I know he's continuing with the same plan.

He's never been very concrete about how he intends to publish it, though, other than the ludicrous conditions mentioned in the past thread. From what I can gather, the only thing he's actually done is ask annoying questions of actual RPG authors at convention panels.

And, of course, all the 'character sheets' and so forth, which are a byzantine mess of boxes and horrible image artifacts that get worse with every new version. The logo is basically a smear now, after several iterations of screencapping it out of the .pdf of the last sheet and pasting it into the new one. I had a "Standard Character Sheet, Mark IX"; at the rate he was going, he should be up to fifteen or so by now. They're about the only thing he's ever called "basically ready for publication", and they've been that way since around version five.

So yes, he's almost certainly planning to publish it, except in the sense of putting any effort into finding out how to submit a manuscript (or the RPG equivalent) to a publisher. There's no one location for his content, either; it's all spread out across several sheaves of notepaper, multiple different computers, and half of it's made up on the spot. It's also not uniformly done, which complicates things still further. Sure, he's got twenty base classes -- and then you open baseclasses.doc, and half of them are two sentences of fluff and a table where every entry is <TBD> or a reference to another such table.

And don't even get me started on feats vs. skills vs. talents vs. assets. Not only are there not enough for most classes, most of the "placeholder" or "proof of concept" ones that exist require ludicrously high stats and/or are specific to certain class/race combinations--I remember an early version of Two-Weapon Fighting requiring multiple stats over 24 (on a d20 4d6 drop lowest scale), back before he decided to do it later and say PCs couldn't TWF yet. This led to numerous "IOU" assets, which meant every level we had to beg Marty for our class features or effectively take a level in commoner. Not that you'd know this at a glance; after all, he's got fifty feats done, spread across four or five .txt files. Most of them are just "TBD" with some flavor notes.

So I wouldn't worry about those trees just yet. It will be years before the wad of materials is in a sendable state, if ever.

[CoffeeIncluded]

...I'd say the smear is rather accurate.

[Alejandro]

Well, he's still trying to run at least one campaign in it, so as far as I know he's continuing with the same plan.

He's never been very concrete about how he intends to publish it, though, other than the ludicrous conditions mentioned in the past thread. From what I can gather, the only thing he's actually done is ask annoying questions of actual RPG authors at convention panels.

And, of course, all the 'character sheets' and so forth, which are a byzantine mess of boxes and horrible image artifacts that get worse with every new version. The logo is basically a smear now, after several iterations of screencapping it out of the .pdf of the last sheet and pasting it into the new one. I had a "Standard Character Sheet, Mark IX"; at the rate he was going, he should be up to fifteen or so by now. They're about the only thing he's ever called "basically ready for publication", and they've been that way since around version five.

So yes, he's almost certainly planning to publish it, except in the sense of putting any effort into finding out how to submit a manuscript (or the RPG equivalent) to a publisher. There's no one location for his content, either; it's all spread out across several sheaves of notepaper, multiple different computers, and half of it's made up on the spot. It's also not uniformly done, which complicates things still further. Sure, he's got twenty base classes -- and then you open baseclasses.doc, and half of them are two sentences of fluff and a table where every entry is <TBD> or a reference to another such table.

And don't even get me started on feats vs. skills vs. talents vs. assets. Not only are there not enough for most classes, most of the "placeholder" or "proof of concept" ones that exist require ludicrously high stats and/or are specific to certain class/race combinations--I remember an early version of Two-Weapon Fighting requiring multiple stats over 24 (on a d20 4d6 drop lowest scale), back before he decided to do it later and say PCs couldn't TWF yet. This led to numerous "IOU" assets, which meant every level we had to beg Marty for our class features or effectively take a level in commoner. Not that you'd know this at a glance; after all, he's got fifty feats done, spread across four or five .txt files. Most of them are just "TBD" with some flavor notes.

So I wouldn't worry about those trees just yet. It will be years before the wad of materials is in a sendable state, if ever.

I cannot think of a more hilarious thing for you to do than to actually get something published yourself, then gloat about it to him.

[llehctim]

Oh right, did I ever mention that as a mage, whenever I used a spell creatively or in a way that he didn't expect or that defeated an enemy too quickly. The spell always seems to get retroactively moved to a higher level spell or split into 3 spells. Meaning usually that I am no longer able to cast the spell or I end up risking the 5% chance of my character dying from casting it. On an unrelated note, he has decided to put a step between unconscious and dying, involving being in a coma, which gives massive penalties? (I assumed a case of miswording, so implied it should be a form of magical burnout, which I have heard of in many fictions happening w hen you overdo magic).

[Trekkin]

Does making something freely available a la Eclipse Phase count? I can't imagine actually requiring that people pay for my stuff.
...not least because I'm using roll-and-keep for the core mechanic, straight out of L5R...
My hypothetical stuff, of course. I've got some ideas that I add to when I'm not coding for work, but they're a long way from even being ready for a playtest.

[VeliciaL]

Hasn't he essentially decided that nobody is worthy of publishing his work, or some such claptrap?

[georgie_leech]

As I recall he was saying they should pay him for the right to publish it. Or am I confusing it with how he expects people to pay him for ripping off their ideas for the sake of exposure?

[Arkhosia]

He won't really have to worry: no one would ever sully themselves with publishing any of his campaigns.
Wait, does he mean they have to pay him if they even reuse any little thing for a adventure even if they never sell or make a profit with the adventure? Because A. He has no copyright, so his work is completely free to be used, even if they make money off of it
B. even if it was copyrighted, doesn't copywrite only disallow making a profit by plagiarizing the material? And that only really would count if it was majorly plaigarized from, like making money by selling a LOTR copy that has the names changed. I don't think TSR was sued by Tolkien for using a fantasy setting with elves, dwarves, and humans in it.

[jindra34]

Arkhosia:
Its a wee bit more complex. Covered it some up thread (or maybe last thread), and needless to say if he intends to market it and holds copyright, he can go at you for distribution. Even if there is no profit.

[Mewtarthio]

And that would be terrible, because it would expose the lawyers to this "system." I shudder to think of what would happen next...

[Eldan]

He won't really have to worry: no one would ever sully themselves with publishing any of his campaigns.
Wait, does he mean they have to pay him if they even reuse any little thing for a adventure even if they never sell or make a profit with the adventure? Because A. He has no copyright, so his work is completely free to be used, even if they make money off of it
B. even if it was copyrighted, doesn't copywrite only disallow making a profit by plagiarizing the material? And that only really would count if it was majorly plaigarized from, like making money by selling a LOTR copy that has the names changed. I don't think TSR was sued by Tolkien for using a fantasy setting with elves, dwarves, and humans in it.

TSR did actually have problems with the Tolkien estate and had to change a few things. That's why Balrogs are called Balors now and Hobbits Halflings.

[Arkhosia]

Arkhosia:
Its a wee bit more complex. Covered it some up thread (or maybe last thread), and needless to say if he intends to market it and holds copyright, he can go at you for distribution. Even if there is no profit.

I know that distribution would be a valid reason.
I was thinking mainly of things such as a DM playing with his buddies whose campaign has a super-powerful katana in it and being charged by Marty for doing so: "how dare you use a super powerful katana like i did and using it in an adventure you only will ever share with six people!".

And I am aware that Tolkien had issues with hobbits and balrogs. That makes sense. If he sued them for having wizards in the game, now that's a different story.

[Mr Beer]

Marty is never going to get to the serious publishing stage because no-one is even going to read an untidy manuscript and in his first encounter with the industry they will treat him with insufficient deference. At which point he will retreat, tortoise like, into his Cheeto becrumbed neckbeard and complain that his vision was too 'daring' and 'innovative' for them. And that will be that.

[Arkhosia]

Marty is never going to get to the serious publishing stage because no-one is even going to read an untidy manuscript and in his first encounter with the industry they will treat him with insufficient deference. At which point he will retreat, tortoise like, into his Cheeto becrumbed neckbeard and complain that his vision was too 'daring' and 'innovative' for them. And that will be that.

If anyone does publish it, then it means there is actually a devil. :smallsmile:

[Arbane]

Marty is never going to get to the serious publishing stage because no-one is even going to read an untidy manuscript and in his first encounter with the industry they will treat him with insufficient deference. At which point he will retreat, tortoise like, into his Cheeto becrumbed neckbeard and complain that his vision was too 'daring' and 'innovative' for them. And that will be that.

This puts me in a moral dilemma. I'm torn between my dislike of vanity presses (which are scams that rip off aspiring writers) and my dislike for Chief Circle.

....CC wins. Trekkin, send him links to a few vanity-press websites. :smallwink:

[Trekkin]

Heh. I don't talk to him anymore, I'm afraid.

However, there is a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/07/in-retrospect-this-was-inevitable.html). Sort of. This one's about me. :redface:

Let me just say, in my defense, that I had absolutely no idea what we were doing.

[CoffeeIncluded]

But did you guys enjoy yourselves? That's the most important question.

[Arkhosia]

I think that as long as it wasn't a reenactment of GM!!Marty-Dom, your good.
And yes, I'm going to always refer to him by that name, because it sounds idiotic.