The SUE Files, Part II

[Trekkin]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/08/suethulhu-we-had-ideas.html) although it's been a while.

By the way, for those asking where CC's trying to work, for a while now he's been trying to get a job with the CIA, apparently.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Wait, wait. Marty, as in CC himself? Trying to get a job with the COA? Because if it's CC, well there are so many things I can say to that but I don't want to skirt the board rules here.

Have they laughed him out yet?

Also, this makes me weep.

[Arkhosia]

I hope he doesn't get it. Never put a totalitarian in a position of power.

Really? He doesn't know what carbon dating is? I am barely a teen and I could explain it rather well!

Organic materials have a carbon called carbon 14 that cannot be replenished after the organic source dies. The more carbon 14 decay present, the older the material/item is.

[The Glyphstone]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/08/suethulhu-we-had-ideas.html) although it's been a while.

By the way, for those asking where Marty's trying to work, for a while now he's been trying to get a job with the CIA, apparently.

I thought his degree was in aeronautics engineering.

[Trekkin]

It is. Apparently they hire aeronautical engineers in some capacity or other.

EDIT: Looks like they're used as analysts. I can see it now:

"Clearly they're wizards; this plane is as impossible as bumblebee flight, I tell you!"

[Friv]

By the way, for those asking where CC's trying to work, for a while now he's been trying to get a job with the CIA, apparently.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m276vvHXj31rqq1iao1_r1_500.gif

[Arkhosia]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/08/suethulhu-we-had-ideas.html) although it's been a while.

By the way, for those asking where CC's trying to work, for a while now he's been trying to get a job with the CIA, apparently.

If he gets the job, I'm moving to England. At least their only failure was Johnny English.

[Feddlefew]

..... How, exactly, did Chief Circle pass any of his science courses if he's so incompetent he can't figure out that CO2 disolves?

[Mr Beer]

..... How, exactly, did Chief Circle pass any of his science courses if he's so incompetent he can't figure out that CO2 disolves?

This, has he never drunk soda? I kind of assumed he lives off Mountain Dew and Cheetos.

[Trekkin]

As far as I know, he doesn't much question where the Mountain Dew comes from. "Chemicals are chemicals."

[jindra34]

The last line of the new post... its joyously comical.

[Trekkin]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/08/suethulu-magic-ian.html).

I'm trying something new with these, since session-by-session is impractical. I'm also trying to get formatting back. Do let me know if either one works.

[TuggyNE]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/08/suethulu-magic-ian.html).

I'm trying something new with these, since session-by-session is impractical. I'm also trying to get formatting back. Do let me know if either one works.

The post is nice, but depressing as fully expected.

One thing that has slowly been trickling into realization for me is just how careful and deliberate he was in intentionally cutting his players down as far as possible.

[Big Fau]

The post is nice, but depressing as fully expected.

One thing that has slowly been trickling into realization for me is just how careful and deliberate he was in intentionally cutting his players down as far as possible.

The game shouldn't be fun, it's meant to be a way for me to show off these cool rules and the best parts of my epic novel series.

:smallsigh:

[Sith_Happens]

As far as I know, he doesn't much question where the Mountain Dew comes from. "Chemicals are chemicals."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH...

Not to mention that mass spec should be the last thing a Cthulhu-anything GM stops you from doing. Seriously, skipping straight to destructive analysis on an eldritch artifact not obviously made of any known material? You're just asking for your head to explode and the computer to melt right after spitting out a spectrum graph that drives anyone who reads it insane (or, as they call it over at Miskatonic, "Tuesday").

[jindra34]

I will note in response to the Invisibilty thing in the last post that GURPS among other systems shares it by default. Not that that excuses the rest of the bull.

[comicshorse]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH...

Not to mention that mass spec should be the last thing a Cthulhu-anything GM stops you from doing. Seriously, skipping straight to destructive analysis on an eldritch artifact not obviously made of any known material? You're just asking for your head to explode and the computer to melt right after spitting out a spectrum graph that drives anyone who reads it insane (or, as they call it over at Miskatonic, "Tuesday").

That would be the sane response instead CC is so paranoid that if he lets the P.C.s do something, anything, they will use that as a stepping stone to doing something that ruins the plot of his game he's decided to simply slam down on anything succedding as a preemptive strike
To be fair this is a flaw I've noticed in my own GM'ing (from a bad experience with a player who when given an inch would take a mile) and one I have to be on the watch to avoid

[Arkhosia]

As far as I know, he doesn't much question where the Mountain Dew comes from. "Chemicals are chemicals."

Force him to drink Moxie! That'll teach him!

[Eldan]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH...


Welcome to the club. Here's your hat and pin. I'm the resident ecologist, over there's the physicists, the politics major is over by the cocktail table chatting with the psychologist. The screaming and thumping you hear from the cellar? That's the engineers.

[llehctim]

As a sidenote: Many people when playing RPGs like to not think to much about the logic behind actions, I have met quite a few, which doesn't work well when the players love using logic to expand upon the game universe and make the game more fun than a cut and paste MMOPG. I have friends that explicitly tell me NO SCIENCE in any game they play with me, and that is okay with me, I just work with magic to do amusing things.
I think MMORPG is the style Marty is going for. Grind to level up, complete quests for people with exclamation marks turn them into people with question marks, need to farm rep before getting anything good, cut-scenes show more relevant people doing epic things after you fought the minions in the instance, nothing you do has any lasting effects, etc. However those require alot more time to get results than typical PnP RPGs and need less creativity.

PS: As much as it sounds like I hate MMOs, I think they fill a niche in gaming, just one I don't want when I only play once a week or less.

[Sith_Happens]

I think MMORPG is the style Marty is going for. Grind to level up, complete quests for people with exclamation marks turn them into people with question marks, need to farm rep before getting anything good, cut-scenes show more relevant people doing epic things after you fought the minions in the instance, nothing you do has any lasting effects, etc.

Except there's no quest text or objective list, you're capped at the lowest rep level (but the others are still there in the window for you to stare at), and your abilities are all on cooldown forever.

[Deadline]

I think MMORPG is the style Marty is going for. Grind to level up, complete quests for people with exclamation marks turn them into people with question marks, need to farm rep before getting anything good, cut-scenes show more relevant people doing epic things after you fought the minions in the instance, nothing you do has any lasting effects, etc. However those require alot more time to get results than typical PnP RPGs and need less creativity.

There's a world of difference between a game where the GM goes, "Look guys, I just don't want to bang my head on the table while we discuss scientific minutiae. Let's just all agree to up the bar on our suspension of disbelief, yeah?" And one where Marty here is in charge, where instead of saying anything resembling the above, you get something along the lines of "Oh, that doesn't work. No, no, there are reasons, and it's all internally consistent, you just don't understand them." *smug smirk and mustache twirl*

[Trekkin]

Got it in one, Deadline; part of my Cael-being-shut-down post was going to mention that. I don't mind ignoring science if that's the game we're playing, but I need to be told that. "I don't want that in my game" is a lot more effective at telling me that than "your plan is stupid because of these wholly logical reasons." Heck, he kept reaffirming that he was fine with it in principle, just not in specific.

Well what am I going to do with that but try more specific cases?

There is, as you say, a lot of difference between "we're not doing that" and "you're doing that wrong."

[Lord Torath]

There's a world of difference between a game where the GM goes, "Look guys, I just don't want to bang my head on the table while we discuss scientific minutiae. Let's just all agree to up the bar on our suspension of disbelief, yeah?" And one where Marty here is in charge, where instead of saying anything resembling the above, you get something along the lines of "Oh, that doesn't work. No, no, there are reasons, and it's all internally consistent, you just don't understand them." *smug smirk and mustache twirl neckbeard stroke*Fixed that for you! :smallwink:

[Alejandro]

I thought his degree was in aeronautics engineering.

I imagine the CIA wants some aeronautic engineers for drone programs.

[Arbane]

Except there's no quest text or objective list, you're capped at the lowest rep level (but the others are still there in the window for you to stare at), and your abilities are all on cooldown forever.

At least in an MMO you can pay real money to the store to bribe your way out. :smallmad:


I imagine the CIA wants some aeronautic engineers for drone programs.

I can only imagine that interview. "Oh, yes, I'm an expert at droning! I can go on and on for hours!" and they misunderstood him....

[Trekkin]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/08/suethulu-shutting-down-darya.html).

This one is, I promise, the weakest of the four. Darya was just sort of neutralized by prior player commitment, so outside of some CC panic his efforts in that direction were minimal.

[jindra34]

I think, as of right now, the thing about this CC understands the least, and makes the least effort to make within MILES of plausibility is military. Which apparently he has some background in. And... arghic... its bad.

[Maugan Ra]

...gah.

OK, I have virtually the same level of military experience as CC apparently has - namely, serving in the cadets and a general hobbyist's interest in this sort of stuff - and I know perfectly well that this is bovine excrement.

Squads of soldiers are not cannon fodder. No group of soldiers recruited for a professional modern military is ever cannon fodder. Because putting soldiers onto the battlefield for the express purpose of getting them killed in place of something else is terrible strategy.

(Note that they may perhaps effectively be cannon fodder in certain situations, depending on the exact battlefield, but that is almost always because someone ****ed up royally.)

Anyway, the reason that we go with squads of trained, cooperative soldiers rather than a single elite badass is because there are things that squads can do which individuals simply can't. Most of which essentially comes under the twin headings of 'multi-tasking and being versatile'.

But trying to explain all of this is mostly pointless, since we know it already and CC is never going to read or accept this, so I shall move on to the following points.

1) "All of whom are too high rank to be corrupted". Uh, what? I would like to refer you to the Imperium of Man, which explicitly does it's best to prevent any one individual officer acquiring control over too much effective combat power, precisely because of the risk of corruption. Indeed, there is a wonderful saying you may be familiar with regarding power and the corruption it brings with it.

Sharply automating everything so that a single man can exercise unquestionable control over enough firepower to annihilate a sub-continent is asking for trouble.

2) Why exactly is it so utterly impossible to get into the ship? This, too, is stupid. Especially the bit about doors taking ten minutes to open. What happens if something inside has gone wrong and people cannot afford to wait ten minutes to get out? What happens if something inside has gone wrong (like, say, the commander has gone rogue and is attempting to steal it) and the security people cannot afford to wait ten minutes to get in? What happens if people just do not want to waste ten minutes idly standing around waiting to get in and out of their own goddamn ship?

3) I know very little about the mechanics of firearms, so I cannot speak too much on the exact specifics of the 'sniper rifles are long pistols' nonsense, but... well, how exactly does he think the sniper rifle makes the bullet go further than the pistol bullet? Because really, there are two options. Either the gun substantially warps physics around itself so that imparting the same force to the bullet makes it go further... or it applies more force to the bullet.

[The New Bruceski]

3) I know very little about the mechanics of firearms, so I cannot speak too much on the exact specifics of the 'sniper rifles are long pistols' nonsense, but... well, how exactly does he think the sniper rifle makes the bullet go further than the pistol bullet? Because really, there are two options. Either the gun substantially warps physics around itself so that imparting the same force to the bullet makes it go further... or it applies more force to the bullet.

Answer: sniper rifles use bigger bullets. More powder, more propulsion, it's why they're built like rifles instead of pistols.

I can kinda see CC's argument, not that I agree with it. He's not saying that a sniper at X feet and a pistol at X feet would do the same damage, but that a sniper rifle at max range and pistol at max range would both have a bullet stop moving from air friction. Thus a pistol and sniper at half their max range would do the same, et cetera et cetera, and since damage isn't calculated based on range (I assume) they should do the same damage.

The problem is that this logic is true for any gun, rock, or pointy stick. It doesn't work.

[georgie_leech]

Answer: sniper rifles use bigger bullets. More powder, more propulsion, it's why they're built like rifles instead of pistols.

I can kinda see CC's argument, not that I agree with it. He's not saying that a sniper at X feet and a pistol at X feet would do the same damage, but that a sniper rifle at max range and pistol at max range would both have a bullet stop moving from air friction. Thus a pistol and sniper at half their max range would do the same, et cetera et cetera, and since damage isn't calculated based on range (I assume) they should do the same damage.

The problem is that this logic is true for any gun, rock, or pointy stick. It doesn't work.

It's also kind of silly because Sniper Rifles generally don't have a max range where the bullet loses all momentum, or rather it's so ludicrously long as to never come into consideration. What they do have is a maximum effective range, where factors like bullet drop, wind, and other effects on the path of the bullet make it too difficult to actually make a shot. The longest confirmed record kill shot was at 2.5km with a .338, and I'm willing to bet it still would have killed the guy if he was standing a few feet further back.

[Lord Raziere]

The longest confirmed record kill shot was at 2.5km with a .338, and I'm willing to bet it still would have killed the guy if he was standing a few feet further back.

:smalleek:

which means that any sniper you see, is not a good sniper… I'm not talking about camouflage, I'm talking about if you can spot the sniper at all with the naked eye, its a bad sniper…

cause a good sniper, with that kind of range isn't anywhere NEAR you.

sure longest record, probably not going to be repeated any time soon, but that still makes any good sniper somewhere in the vicinity of not here, killing you from so far away that you cannot respond or even see them…

right? I don't know much about guns, but it sounds to me that that kind of range, the only way to not get shot by a sniper, is to not get spotted by one.

[LordChaos13]

:smalleek:

which means that any sniper you see, is not a good sniper… I'm not talking about camouflage, I'm talking about if you can spot the sniper at all with the naked eye, its a bad sniper…

cause a good sniper, with that kind of range isn't anywhere NEAR you.

sure longest record, probably not going to be repeated any time soon, but that still makes any good sniper somewhere in the vicinity of not here, killing you from so far away that you cannot respond or even see them…

right? I don't know much about guns, but it sounds to me that that kind of range, the only way to not get shot by a sniper, is to not get spotted by one.

Accuracy descends with range and the likelihood of obstructions increases
In an urban environment you aren't going to get shot from outside naked eye range

[Trekkin]

2) Why exactly is it so utterly impossible to get into the ship? This, too, is stupid. Especially the bit about doors taking ten minutes to open. What happens if something inside has gone wrong and people cannot afford to wait ten minutes to get out? What happens if something inside has gone wrong (like, say, the commander has gone rogue and is attempting to steal it) and the security people cannot afford to wait ten minutes to get in? What happens if people just do not want to waste ten minutes idly standing around waiting to get in and out of their own goddamn ship?


I was curious about this too. It's not the ship hatches, it's the access doors to the hangar from the rest of the base. Marty took how I described my BSL facility's airlock doors to work and thoroughly misunderstood the point

And yes, his access tunnels are fail-deadly.

See, he once asked me how biosafety level 2 rooms are built. I described how there's like an anteroom on ours between the outer lab and the two actual BSL-2 rooms, and how opening any one door would magnetically lock the other two for a bit. It was meant, and I thought I'd made it clear, to cut down on air currents and make maintaining negative pressure easier on the fans; it has nothing to do with security and everything to do with contamination. Marty, however, heard that and ran with it as a security airlock "while you've got everyone in a killing room" and, as I later learned (and was going to put in the blog where I learned it) this was standard practice for the NEG: put your own people in lethal danger for every work shift.

And yes his access tunnels are automated and fail-deadly.

[graymagiker]

Of course the access tunnels are, as you say, fail deadly. There are no humans/people running the ships; no access is required! Don't you fracking see?! Any access to the ship is a fail and should be deadly, you dumb players.

[Lord Raziere]

Of course the access tunnels are, as you say, fail deadly. There are no humans/people running the ships; no access is required! Don't you fracking see?! Any access to the ship is a fail and should be deadly, you dumb players.

But why stop there? put the ships in the hands of super-advanced artificial intelligence that is three million times better and smarter than you! they would know how to use it better than you, nothing could possibly go wrong putting such a great ship in the hands of such a great intelligence!

[MirddinEmris]

You know, if it wasn't for my personal experience with horrible DMs, i would assumed that all of this is basically a big joke. Though i still suspect this :smallsmile:

[Trekkin]

Wow, it's been a while since someone brought that up. I still have no better way to assure you of the accuracy of these events than I did last time -- and, indeed, the whole thing is certainly not free of mistakes. See Ian's hand lasers being gamma radiation rather than acid, for example. The quotes I can vouch for, though, since I started writing them down whenever Marty opened his mouth or started typing, and I do try to verify with other people what happened.

All I can really say is this: I wish I could write someone this inventively, bizarrely wrong. You've seen my writing style. You've seen a novella's worth of my writing style. I am not that good.

EDIT: And as to the ship: I never got through to him that we didn't want to steal it. We didn't! He just saw us asking after the fancy toy, I guess.

We seriously never even considered stealing the Victory before he started rattling off why we couldn't. It wasn't all that useful to what we were (we thought) assigned to do.

[MirddinEmris]

Wow, it's been a while since someone brought that up. I still have no better way to assure you of the accuracy of these events than I did last time -- and, indeed, the whole thing is certainly not free of mistakes. See Ian's hand lasers being gamma radiation rather than acid, for example. The quotes I can vouch for, though, since I started writing them down whenever Marty opened his mouth or started typing, and I do try to verify with other people what happened.

All I can really say is this: I wish I could write someone this inventively, bizarrely wrong. You've seen my writing style. You've seen a novella's worth of my writing style. I am not that good.

Sorry if it sounded like i was accusing you of lying. It wasn't the case, no. I myself happend to play with GMs and players that was fantastically horrible (as players/gms and as human beings). So, it was more of a shocking response actually about all of this terrible stuff)

[Balmas]

Sometimes I wonder how much of this BS is planned, and how much is just off the cuff, "Don't touch Marty's things" rejection.

[LordChaos13]

I almost want to find a Clue by 4, beat him across the head with it then explain, in detail, exactly where and how he is wrong without letting him speak (probably via duct tape)

It wont do anything but it'll help me

[Arbane]

You know, if it wasn't for my personal experience with horrible DMs, i would assumed that all of this is basically a big joke. Though i still suspect this :smallsmile:

All his 'game' needs is some deliberate humor to be a GREAT Paranoia/CTech mash-up. Alas, all evidence suggests that he's DEAD SERIOUS.

Which only makes it funnier for ME, but I wasn't one of his long-suffering players... :smallmad:

PS: Trekkin, did anyone ever try to get him to run Exalted? If he did, I suspect his head would explode. That game is ALL about letting the PCs tear up the scenery...

[Lord Raziere]

PS: Trekkin, did anyone ever try to get him to run Exalted? If he did, I suspect his head would explode. That game is ALL about letting the PCs tear up the scenery...

1. with this kind of GM, I'm pretty sure he would heavily house rule all the power into oblivion once he read ahead, judging by the stories.

2. Exalted as it is now is ALREADY a rules-clusterfrack of poorly thought out mechanics, we don't need this guy making it worse.

3. even if he did GM, judging by what I've read, he would probably latch onto an Elder Sidereal or Death Lord or something as his Sue. or get Abyssals and use Resonance as an excuse to railroad you into oblivion once he gets you to play one. or abuse the great curse, or something or other. really, I'm guessing that any hypothetical Exalted game under that guy would end up being Abyssals and lots of tragedy as people die, die die while Death Lord Marty goes around conquering Creation or something...

[MirddinEmris]

All his 'game' needs is some deliberate humor to be a GREAT Paranoia/CTech mash-up. Alas, all evidence suggests that he's DEAD SERIOUS.

Which only makes it funnier for ME, but I wasn't one of his long-suffering players... :smallmad:

PS: Trekkin, did anyone ever try to get him to run Exalted? If he did, I suspect his head would explode. That game is ALL about letting the PCs tear up the scenery...

No, that would be for the people that care to see something that they doesn't like/approve. For him it would be a system where a very weak Dragonborns with MUCH weaker Charms watch his awesome Solar DMPC (and of course The CC Avatar, who is to awesome to be bothering by some petty rules)

[Trekkin]

Do you really want to hear the phrase "a fleet of Executor-class Dirigible Engine Daystars?"
Besides, if we asked he would have just added Exalted to the Martyverse and the story would have been exactly the same as this one. That is how he uses published systems/settings now; I do not think he is capable of telling any other story.

Either that, or he would have insisted on an Alchemicals game and we'd have been trying to beg for Lesser Man-Machine Knitting Engines while Marty spin-kicked the Seal of Eight Divinities open and all the Design Weavers stopped because "fate has been achieved."

[Big Fau]

Answer: sniper rifles use bigger bullets. More powder, more propulsion, it's why they're built like rifles instead of pistols.

It's more than just that. The length of the barrel plays a role in increasing the bullet's velocity. I forget the full details since I haven't taken physics in years, but it's related to the pressure of the gasses trying to expand inside the barrel and forcing the bullet out faster.

[MirddinEmris]

Either that, or he would have insisted on an Alchemicals game and we'd have been trying to beg for Lesser Man-Machine Knitting Engines while Marty spin-kicked the Seal of Eight Divinities open and all the Design Weavers stopped because "fate has been achieved."

And you are telling me that you are not that good :smallbiggrin:

[jindra34]

And you are telling me that you are not that good :smallbiggrin:

The players not being involved or helping or what not with it, that is the not good part. Everything that would result (up to and including giving the Ebon Dragon the mother of all panic attacks) probably would be.

[Sith_Happens]

To be fair, I read the entire Something Awful CTech "review" that wasn't behind the paywall, and I'm pretty sure that light infantry no longer being a thing is an existing part of the setting. That's only for the military, though, there are still plenty of unarmored cops.


3. even if he did GM, judging by what I've read, he would probably latch onto an Elder Sidereal or Death Lord or something as his Sue. or get Abyssals and use Resonance as an excuse to railroad you into oblivion once he gets you to play one. or abuse the great curse, or something or other. really, I'm guessing that any hypothetical Exalted game under that guy would end up being Abyssals and lots of tragedy as people die, die die while Death Lord Marty goes around conquering Creation or something...

Don't say any more, you're already making me imagine CC running Kejop Chejak and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH--[CONNECTION LOST]


The players not being involved or helping or what not with it, that is the not good part. Everything that would result (up to and including giving the Ebon Dragon the mother of all panic attacks) probably would be.

ME was talking about Trekkin's writing being allegedly (by him) "not that good."

[Lord Torath]

It's more than just that. The length of the barrel plays a role in increasing the bullet's velocity. I forget the full details since I haven't taken physics in years, but it's related to the pressure of the gasses trying to expand inside the barrel and forcing the bullet out faster.Yeah. There's that scene in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails where 4E Hailey's crossbow bolt flies straight to the 150' range sign and then stops abruptly. I think Marty thinks that's how bullets work. Yes, Marty, the bullets do, in fact, slow due to air friction. No, the useful range of the weapon is not generally determined by this, but by the fact that the farther down-range, the harder it is to aim.

I recently saw a Mythbusters where they fired a pistol level from about 3' up, and the bullet went about 360' before impacting the ground. Now hitting anything smaller than a 6' x 6' square at 300' is nearly impossible with a pistol. (Yes, I'm fully expecting some super-sharp-shooter to speak up and prove me wrong. I say unto you "Shut up! I'm trying to make a point here!"). And yet, the bullet still had plenty of forward velocity. It hit the ground hard!

You know, I'm not certain CC believes half of what he tells you guys (at least I really hope not!), but he can't afford to let your characters be effective, so he imposes this stuff in his "multiverse" instead. If he really does believe it, he really needs to be kicked out of the ivory tower he's locked himself away in. Pretty soon life's going to rip him out of it, and it's not going to be pleasant. (This analysis is expertly made from forever away, and since I'm an engineer, it must be right!)

[Lord Raziere]

Don't say any more, you're already making me imagine CC running Kejop Chejak and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH--[CONNECTION LOST]


Oh thats nothing.

now imagine an all Abyssals game.

except a part of all the backstories is that you have betrayed the Death Lords for the Ebon Dragon.

thats right, the very last thing you ever want Marty to get his hands on, is the Ebon Dragon, cosmic principle of screwing people over. cause he would use that a free ticket to screw the group over. always. FOREVER.

[Arbane]

Do you really want to hear the phrase "a fleet of Executor-class Dirigible Engine Daystars?"

O_O

... Good point.


1) "All of whom are too high rank to be corrupted". Uh, what? I would like to refer you to the Imperium of Man, which explicitly does it's best to prevent any one individual officer acquiring control over too much effective combat power, precisely because of the risk of corruption. Indeed, there is a wonderful saying you may be familiar with regarding power and the corruption it brings with it.


It occurs to me that CC has apparently never heard the phase 'single point of failure.'

And of course he doesn't think absolute power corrupts absolutely - his ENTIRE STORY is about his idiot UberNPC gaining (even more) Ultimate Power and then forcing the entire universe to LOVE him. Or at least obey him.


Besides, if we asked he would have just added Exalted to the Martyverse and the story would have been exactly the same as this one. That is how he uses published systems/settings now; I do not think he is capable of telling any other story.

That's kind of sad, really. Too bad my pity is drowned out by my contempt.

And yes, his trying to run Exalted would certainly suck like the Mouth of Oblivion. At least you'd get the (minimal) entertainment of his panicked efforts to house-rule the game into uselessness...

Ah, I just thought of another reason he wouldn't like it - "Daiklaves are obviously inferior to Katanas."


If he really does believe it, he really needs to be kicked out of the ivory tower he's locked himself away in. Pretty soon life's going to rip him out of it, and it's not going to be pleasant.

Not for _him_ maybe. The schadenfreude when Marty* is forcibly introduced to reality should be delightful for everyone else who's suffered through his attitude, though.

* I notice that now we're calling the GM by his UberNPC's nickname - but that's a distinction without a difference...

[VeliciaL]

Also note that there have been people who have gotten killed because some idiot shot a gun into the air, so there's not a magic point where the bullet stops being deadly.

[Balmas]

Also note that there have been people who have gotten killed because some idiot shot a gun into the air, so there's not a magic point where the bullet stops being deadly.

"Obviously, since the bullet was going straight up, it stayed within the maximum range of the gun. It couldn't have gone further than its horizontal shooting distance, so your argument doesn't make sense."

[jindra34]

"Obviously, since the bullet was going straight up, it stayed within the maximum range of the gun. It couldn't have gone further than its horizontal shooting distance, so your argument doesn't make sense."

And sadly a bullet fired straight vertical won't be a danger when it comes down due to losing it ballistic trajectory (as the Mythbusters showed). A few degrees or fractions there of off though and you can get crazy range of potentially lethal impacts.

[The Glyphstone]

"Obviously, since the bullet was going straight up, it stayed within the maximum range of the gun. It couldn't have gone further than its horizontal shooting distance, so your argument doesn't make sense."

This would make his nickname of Chief Circle even more appropriate, since he doesn't recognize the concept of three dimensions.

[Arkhosia]

This would make his nickname of Chief Circle even more appropriate, since he doesn't recognize the concept of three dimensions.

This even extends to literature, apparently.

[TuggyNE]

Also note that there have been people who have gotten killed because some idiot shot a gun into the air, so there's not a magic point where the bullet stops being deadly.

Or fired a gun at the water; at a sufficiently shallow angle, bullets can rebound. In one notable case back in the 60s, someone brought a rifle out on their fishing trip to chase off/kill sharks, and decided to test it after cleaning, but fired at too shallow an angle; the bullet bounced and traveled another couple miles before hitting a driver in the side of the head and killing them. (It was moving slowly enough that if they'd had their window up it probably wouldn't have killed them, but it still had some juice.)

[Lord Torath]

Sorry if it sounded like i was accusing you of lying. It wasn't the case, no. I myself happened to play with GMs and players that was fantastically horrible (as players/gms and as human beings). So, it was more of a shocking response actually about all of this terrible stuff)Okay, well, don't make Trekkin do all the work! Do your part and share your stories! You can do it here, on as a guest on his blog. Your choice. :smallamused:

[MirddinEmris]

Okay, well, don't make Trekkin do all the work! Do your part and share your stories! You can do it here, on as a guest on his blog. Your choice. :smallamused:

It's nothing as funny (in a 'flay your skin and take a dip in a ocean' kind of funny) as CC stories, besides, my English is very clunky, so it wouldn't make an interesting or easy reading anyway.

[Rosstin]

I hate it when you can't light a fire with fireball.

[Big Fau]

I hate it when you can't light a fire with fireball.

Some men just want to watch the world burn. Sadly CC won't let them.

[LordChaos13]

Some men just want to watch the world burn. Sadly CC won't let them.

Of course not, They had no formal training in that area. Creating fire requires 7 years doing a course and requires a specific tool they cannot get because it is restricted to people in the military. The military only hands out permits for that weapon on a need to use basis and learning how to use that weapon is not need-to-use.
Also how can I *ahem* excuse me, Martysue save the world while they watch if the world has already burnt down?

[Lord Torath]

It will also take multiple skill checks to even see if you can see the world burning (number required is one more than you can make consecutively, determined as you are rolling), and several more to determine what you are seeing.

[Big Fau]

Of course not, They had no formal training in that area. Creating fire requires 7 years doing a course and requires a specific tool they cannot get because it is restricted to people in the military. The military only hands out permits for that weapon on a need to use basis and learning how to use that weapon is not need-to-use.
Also how can I *ahem* excuse me, Martysue save the world while they watch if the world has already burnt down?

I need to not read this thread while in class, it's sometimes difficult to suppress the lulz.

Although the thought of flint and steel requiring a college degree to work is humorous to a certain extent.

[LordChaos13]

I need to not read this thread while in class, it's sometimes difficult to suppress the lulz.

Although the thought of flint and steel requiring a college degree to work is humorous to a certain extent.

Flint and Steel? You don't know how to use that, no-one uses such primitive methods. And no you cant figure it out either, your minds are too used to advanced things, like that fire-making gun I wont let you have

[Eldan]

"It's not flint and steel, or anything like a lighter. This is an advanced society, the engineers use Nano-Pyroids (tm). No one even knows how a lighter works anymore, they are so primitive, but that doesn't matter, the pyroids are much better.

[Malrone]

On fireballs:
I generally rule in games I run that unless the spell specifies it sets the target area alight, it won't. So, Burning Hands will, Fireball won't. Unless, of course, there is something especially combustible, like that barrel of lamp oil in the storeroom, or the goblin rotgut that was spilled during the fight.

[stupiddDice]

Actually, upon further consideration, I have determined that fire, and heat in general, are too powerful for such low level characters. To be frank, you guys are too weak to even understand the concept of heat. Actually, from now on, all energy types except potential energy are second level skills

edit: grammar

[jindra34]

On fireballs:
I generally rule in games I run that unless the spell specifies it sets the target area alight, it won't. So, Burning Hands will, Fireball won't. Unless, of course, there is something especially combustible, like that barrel of lamp oil in the storeroom, or the goblin rotgut that was spilled during the fight.

The question is: Would you allow a fire spell to light, lets say, a prepared barrel of oil?

[Eldan]

Actually, upon further consideration, I have determined that fire, and heat in general, are too powerful for such low level characters. To be frank, you guys are too weak to even understand the concept of heat. Actually, from now on, all energy types except potential energy are second level skills

edit: grammar

Potential energy?

Woo! Rod from God!

"Actually, that's not how it works. The ground is out of range from orbit."

[The New Bruceski]

On fireballs:
I generally rule in games I run that unless the spell specifies it sets the target area alight, it won't. So, Burning Hands will, Fireball won't. Unless, of course, there is something especially combustible, like that barrel of lamp oil in the storeroom, or the goblin rotgut that was spilled during the fight.

I usually say "if it's dramatic it ignites, if it screws the players in a way that isn't fun it doesn't." But if I need to stretch that second part (say using fire around explosives that would have brought down the dungeon) they get one warning they were about to screw themselves over. Next one goes as-is.

[Sith_Happens]

On fireballs:
I generally rule in games I run that unless the spell specifies it sets the target area alight, it won't. So, Burning Hands will, Fireball won't. Unless, of course, there is something especially combustible, like that barrel of lamp oil in the storeroom, or the goblin rotgut that was spilled during the fight.


The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze.

So yeah, Marty totally nerfed Fireball, not that that's a surprise.

[Malrone]

Look at me, being wrong about Fireball and stuff. Fun Fact: Lightning Bolt also melts and burns. I'll just make a mental note...

If the barrel of oil were prepared, there would be no reason not for it to ignite. Heck, a keg of booze was instrumental in one (successful) plan my party had. It cut off a band of hobgoblin reinforcements, giving much needed time to withdraw and prepare.

[Arkhosia]

Look at me, being wrong about Fireball and stuff. Fun Fact: Lightning Bolt also melts and burns. I'll just make a mental note...

If the barrel of oil were prepared, there would be no reason not for it to ignite. Heck, a keg of booze was instrumental in one (successful) plan my party had. It cut off a band of hobgoblin reinforcements, giving much needed time to withdraw and prepare.

The only time alcohol ever did good in d&d...

[Sith_Happens]

Look at me, being wrong about Fireball and stuff. Fun Fact: Lightning Bolt also melts and burns. I'll just make a mental note...

The amusing part is that they technically still do that if you Energy Substitution (Cold) them.

[LordChaos13]

well its not like its done any bad either.
There arent any rules for alcohol in D&D :smallamused:

[Arkhosia]

well its not like its done any bad either.
There arent any rules for alcohol in D&D :smallamused:

Really? All those bar fights convinced me otherwise. :smallbiggrin:

[Sith_Happens]

well its not like its done any bad either.
There arent any rules for alcohol in D&D :smallamused:

Quite the contrary. Take your pick of either Arms & Equipment Guide or Cityscape.

[Balmas]

Alcohol can be good or bad depending on the GM.

One short example, if I may?

In this corner, our heroes. We have the womanizing, alcohol-brewing ranger, who's dedicated to seducing our party's cleric. We have the long suffering cleric. And we have myself, the black-skinned, Scottish-brogue-speaking, one-eyed Druid, Jake Degroot. (No-one got the joke.)

Now, our ranger is bent on seducing the cleric because of another DM jerk move: The ranger, by literal divine intervention, is sterile until he fulfills one of two conditions. Either he must convince the cleric to marry him, or he must stop hitting on her for two in-game years.

Naturally, he tried for the marriage option. And as any got wingman, Jake did his level best to derail the efforts. I sat at the corner of the table, miming popping a cork and chugging a bottle, slurring my speech, and eventually slumping over on the table.

When Jake woke up, he was naked, in bed, with a cat-girl who'd had a crush on him for as long as they'd met. And because the slave-bands holding them together were high level, he retconned her as being epic level.

We were level three at the time.

Yeah.

[Sith_Happens]

(No-one got the joke.)

Probably because you didn't have Fire Seeds yet.

[Doc Kraken]

So...I read the last thread when it was about halfway through, had a brief, busy period during which I forgot about it (or my subconscious, in an uncharacteristic display of mercy, blotted out the horrors within), then rediscovered it when I spotted this thread. The past evening has been spent in horrified observation.

You poor, poor people. :smalleek: How could someone want to ruin something as beautifully destructive as the bar ambush?

[georgie_leech]

CC appears to work on the bizarre principle that there is a finite amount of awesomeness that be had in a game, and if he lets his players have any, it takes it away from his NPC's, particularly Marty's completely deserved glory.

[Arkhosia]

CC appears to work on the bizarre principle that there is a finite amount of awesomeness that be had in a game, and if he lets his players have any, it takes it away from his NPC's, particularly Marty's completely deserved glory.

He seems to be a perfectionist player: he's rather actually be a PC, but he hates the risk of failure and DMs for the ability to fulfill his wants.

Also, logic appears to work differently in the Martyverse

[georgie_leech]

He seems to be a perfectionist player: he's rather actually be a PC, but he hates the risk of failure and DMs for the ability to fulfill his wants.

Given the earlier comments of playing strategy games with control over both sides, so that his "great" strategy can succeed even though it's terrible, that seems fair.


Also, logic appears to work differently in the Martyverse

In a profoundly simple way. If it works to the betterment of Marty, it succeeds; if it doesn't (and remember than any action on the part of the PC's detracts from Marty's sum of awesomeness), it fails. Retroactively if need be.

[Mando Knight]

(No-one got the joke.)

Didja at least give them a taste of face-to-face MAN fighting?

[Balmas]

Didja at least give them a taste of face-to-face MAN fighting?

As I recall, our first battle consisted of Jake entangling four zombies, and then gambling with the ranger about how many arrows it would take to down the slow, one-five-foot-movement per turn zombie.

[Mando Knight]

No charging at them with the biggest bloody sword you can find? :smallfrown:

[Balmas]

In my defense, the biggest bloody sword I could find was a scimitar.

I do have a shield, though. :smallbiggrin:

[Big Fau]

I do have a shield, though. :smallbiggrin:

Was it made of mahogany?

[Mando Knight]

In my defense, the biggest bloody sword I could find was a scimitar.

That works. (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Persian_Persuader)

[ReaderAt2046]

And Sith_Happens: He can't stand M:tG, although he's addicted to Yu-Gi-Oh. Not the trading part, though. He just makes more decks with his spare cards. Existing multiverses are treated as single universes by the multiverse.

Well that makes sense. Yu-Gi-Oh is essentially an inferior Japanese version of MTG, so naturally CC prefers it.

[georgie_leech]

Well that makes sense. Yu-Gi-Oh is essentially an inferior Japanese version of MTG, so naturally CC prefers it.

Eh, I don't know if you can call it that. The central mechanic (Mana vs sacrifice) being so different seems like enough to say they're distinct games.

[Lord Raziere]

Well that makes sense. Yu-Gi-Oh is essentially an inferior Japanese version of MTG, so naturally CC prefers it.

NOPE! the pokemon card game is closer to MTG than yugioh. :smallbiggrin:

[Big Fau]

Eh, I don't know if you can call it that. The central mechanic (Mana vs sacrifice) being so different seems like enough to say they're distinct games.

Actually the creator of YGO has admitted to being inspired by MtG's early editions.


NOPE! the pokemon card game is closer to MTG than yugioh. :smallbiggrin:

Seeing as both games were (originally) made by the same company, yeah.

[Forrestfire]

Wasn't Duel Monsters in the manga originally just an expy of Magic anyway, but got changed when the plot shifted from "game of the week" to "duel monsters is everything?"

[The Glyphstone]

Actually the creator of YGO has admitted to being inspired by MtG's early editions.



Seeing as both games were (originally) made by the same company, yeah.

I dunno if that's enough to make it qualify as an 'inferior Japanese knock-off', though. Even if the creator was inspired by early Magic, they're still recognizably distinct games, though the influences are visible if you look carefully enough. One is certainly more complex than the other, but that's primarily an effect of their targeted age group/markets being very different.

[Trekkin]

New post will be a while in coming, folks. Jin's "shutting X down" post is a hard one to write, because it deals with how Marty runs people, and I'm trying to minimize the issues people have with my issues.

Just didn't want anyone to think I'd stopped. I'm just being more careful.

[kardar233]

New post will be a while in coming, folks. Jin's "shutting X down" post is a hard one to write, because it deals with how Marty runs people, and I'm trying to minimize the issues people have with my issues.

Not quite sure what that means, but take your time.

[LordChaos13]

I think he means he is fudging a little to make himself seem less rude cause that isn't why he is here telling us stuff.
Then again :looks at sig:

[Big Fau]

One is certainly more complex than the other

Debatable. Tournament-level play in both games is complex; MtG for it's extensive rules and unusual combos, YGO for the sheer number of turn 1/2/3 wins required to actually compete or answers to those early-game wins.

[Trekkin]

Sorry if I was unclear. I meant that this next post has to deal tangentially with politics, by way of Marty's assumptions about how large groups of people behave, and I'm trying to be very careful to differentiate Marty's politics from his insistence that we all fall in line with them happily, since the latter is the important part and the source of Jin's problems with the setting. Mostly so that you all can talk about it here, but also because his views aren't exactly rare, and the last thing I want is dozens of angry people having issues with my issues, to reuse a startlingly specific phrase.

[llehctim]

He seems to be a perfectionist player: he's rather actually be a PC, but he hates the risk of failure and DMs for the ability to fulfill his wants.

Also, logic appears to work differently in the Martyverse

That almost seems to apply to me as well, I want to be a PC, but I want to be more than an adventurer, and have some things of my own that aren't shared with the group. A nation, with followers etc. But When I get them in games, most DMs seem to see followers as good target for insta-kill moves and huge damage that someone "has" to take, making it so I either throw my followers away willingly, or make unthinking ones, making them more of puppets. Still pissed one of the times I had followers and CC (as a player) killed one of (my few surviving) followers when we had lost to an enemy army to show he was on their side (and save himself). Which didn't work that well since unsurprisingly they were not interested in traitors since they were mostly LE. To this day he claims there was a miscommunications and that based on what information he had it should have worked ...

I was not happy, since I had been trying quite hard to not lose the city, and a party member betraying us and assassinating the city's leader (and other sabotaging acts) during the siege was one of the major reasons we lost so badly. What made it worse was the assassain betrayed the enemy and got to look like the damn hero of the campaign (the DM largely favored him as basically the main character in a group of 8-9 players)

EDIT:I did in one of my first campaigns have a small sub-kingdom, but it got overrun and destroyed in an invasion and I never really got another chance for another one since.

[Rosstin]

Owning a kingdom is a rather unusual profession for an adventurer, except as an epilogue state.

[jindra34]

Owning a kingdom is a rather unusual profession for an adventurer, except as an epilogue state.

Owning and ruling one probably isn't actually that rare in my experience. Running one on the other hand pretty much kicks you out of being an adventurer.

[Malrone]

I had a kingdom once. We-three-players built it up out of our own pockets as brothers, raising a once ruined land to prosperity again. Then the youngest brother got the hots for a particular, suspicious NPC, and after a failed arrest attempt when she murdered a town guard, started a civil war to "save" her.

By the end, the land was again ruined, I had watched my brothers die and suffered an almost-crippling irreparable injury myself, and the church of Heironeous was scapegoating me as the cause (I believe the word 'genocide' was being tossed around).

That was the prologue.

Funfact: Loverboy's real-life name was Troy.

[Arbane]

I wouldn't fret too much, Trekkin. You've already made it clear CC's a (wannabe) Upper-Class Twit with megalomania, and we already know that focussing in on his behavior reveals ever-unfolding new levels of Fractal Stupidity.

....I will not ask "how bad can it be"? I know better than to tempt fate like that....

[Arkhosia]

....I will not ask "how bad can it be"? I know better than to tempt fate like that....

There's no way the next post will be anything but bad
Come on, be tempted, fate!

[LordChaos13]

Funfact: Loverboy's real-life name was Troy.

So she was Helen FOR Troy?
I'll leave now sorry :smallredface:

[Trekkin]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/suethulu-jin-down.html). This one had me wincing.

[Arbane]

"It's a miracle you aren't all dead already."

Actually, I guess it IS a miracle. Specifically, Marty's Pudgy Hand of Ghod intervening to save HIS AUDIENCE.

...Did any PCs actually die in this campaign?


As for the rest... sheesh. It's like Dilbert's Pointy-Haired Boss was a gamer in college. (Is the whole "Crysalis Coporation is PURE EEEEVIL and holds all the cards" thing canonical? Because if so, I have to wonder why they haven't just crushed the puny hu-mans yet.)

[jindra34]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/suethulu-jin-down.html). This one had me wincing.

It only made you wince? And the sheep line...

[Alabenson]

Wait, hold on one second;


Bear in mind, Jin's player was Marty's best friend.

Marty had friends?

[A_Man]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/suethulu-jin-down.html). This one had me wincing.


God, I don't understand how you can stand him and not punch that guy in the face. 'All people are sheep'. :smallfurious:

[Arkhosia]

God, I don't understand how you can stand him and not punch that guy in the face. 'All people are sheep'. :smallfurious:

If I played in that campaign, I would see how well Marty would react to anarchists.
Let's Start A Riot!!!!!! (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RtjUc5GXY3E&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRtjUc5GXY3E)

[jindra34]

If I played in that campaign, I would see how well Marty would react to anarchists.
Let's Start A Riot!!!!!! (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RtjUc5GXY3E&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRtjUc5GXY3E)
But a riot would be something new, and because its new its not something that would benefit the people, because if it did they would already be rioting...

[Malrone]

I just realized

CC is the perfect GM to be running a Cthulhu-anything campaign.

He manages to expose incomprehensible insanity to the players themselves.

[Arkhosia]

But a riot would be something new, and because its new its not something that would benefit the people, because if it did they would already be rioting...

Ah, but we PCs are not "people". Otherwise we would play sheep, so we have a great excuse to riot. And if change is bad, then the people would not resist us due to resisting something being new, and the police would be people. So would everyone from the Burger King worker to the "Benevolent" Dictator President him/herself.

[OracleofWuffing]

Ah, but we PCs are not "people". Otherwise we would play sheep, so we have a great excuse to riot. And if change is bad, then the people would not resist us due to resisting something being new, and the police would be people. So would everyone from the Burger King worker to the "Benevolent" Dictator President him/herself.
I always thought humanoids were overpowered for players. You're a sheep now. Roll Knowledge: Geography, Knowledge: Agriculture, Knowledge: Digestion, and Acrobatics to graze. Oh, and take a -5 on all of those since this is your first time doing this, and a -2 since there is no grass.

[JoshuaZ]

There's a more subtle issue here also- the best system isn't necessarily the most stable system. It may well be that at some deep ethical level system A is best, but that doesn't mean that system A is necessarily the most stable. Brutal, horrific system B might be a natural attractor.

I do find it interesting though that he makes the world work off his preferred system. I don't think he gets the point of storytelling.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't think he gets the point of storytelling.

No, really?

[JoshuaZ]

No, really?

Ok. Maybe I deserved that remark.

I guess part of why I found this bit so interesting was that I did something almost the exact opposite with my PCs, where I meta-meta-gamed them about an NPC. There was an NPC who was working for orcish rights and more gender equality, and helping the peasants, in setting. So of course, you assume she's on the good side. They were shocked when it turned out she was working with the baddies. Of course, given Chief Circle's attitudes, he might very well think that of course the NPC in favor of equality and helping the peasants is going to be bad since they are disrupting the status quo.

[Lord Raziere]

hmm….

yea, Marty's is a VERY cynical worldview. this is like…what every cynical teenager ever thought about socio-political stuff ever combined with social darwinism and Nietzsche wannabe philosophy.

its like his train of thought starts with the "90% of the world are idiots" theory, then extrapolates from there, thinking that all the problems of the world must be because people are idiots, and therefore all the people who aren't idiots must be the people who actually ever got anything done, and therefore to solve the problems of the world, you must put all the people who are intelligent at the top to make sure all the "sheep" are given what is best for them because they don't know themselves, assuming that because people are idiots that they can't be responsible, until you end up with this crazy system where he thinks that if you just promote people based upon sanity or the right solutions and give them totalitarian power, it will all work out because the sane people will be the ones in command and therefore could not possibly abuse their power.

its the logical end conclusion of what every young cynical nerd ever thought before they realized that the world doesn't work that way at all. its like he isn't fully matured or something…but, seeing as how control-freak he is being on his game, I'm pretty sure that its blaringly obvious that he isn't mature at all...

[llehctim]

Actually, I guess it IS a miracle. Specifically, Marty's Pudgy Hand of Ghod intervening to save HIS AUDIENCE.

...Did any PCs actually die in this campaign?


As for the rest... sheesh. It's like Dilbert's Pointy-Haired Boss was a gamer in college. (Is the whole "Crysalis Coporation is PURE EEEEVIL and holds all the cards" thing canonical? Because if so, I have to wonder why they haven't just crushed the puny hu-mans yet.)

Only Mine when I wanted desperately to switch characters, and even that took careful planning. And I did heavily suspect time traveling god modeing shenanigans are the reason we were still alive.

Also yes Crysalis Corp does basically have (almost) all the cards and is super evil, but it was assumed that the players still have a chance however small to oppose them in meaningful ways. In this case they are playing with several decks worth of all the cards, and the cards disintegrate when we try to use them.


Also about the sheep thing, sheep are not stupid they just can be herded, they are capable of fighting back when threatened and were able to survive just fine without shepherds . The thing is, shepherds help the sheep safer from predators, but without the shepherd they could fight it off possibly at the cost of some of their number.
Not to mention comparing people to sheep is just that a comparison, not a perfect match human "sheep" can be quite creative when on their own or if the shepherds is not looking out for their best interest. The point of the comparison (in my opinion) indicates people like to stick together and feel safe, which is valid.

[Kish]

You know, after spluttering incoherently for an hour, I thought of the perfect, poetic fate for someone with Chief Circle's issues who tried to declare himself omnipotent by concocting a system whereby brilliant authors create actual universes.

Drop him on Jackson's Whole (http://www.dendarii.com/) with nothing but the shirt on his back.

[Alejandro]

I have an intense desire to strike CC repeatedly with a baseball bat, and tell him, "I don't have a preference for beating you to death, I'm just superior."

I wonder if he'd get it.

[stupiddDice]

Also about the sheep thing, sheep are not stupid they just can be herded, they are capable of fighting back when threatened and were able to survive just fine without shepherds . The thing is, shepherds help the sheep safer from predators, but without the shepherd they could fight it off possibly at the cost of some of their number.
Not to mention comparing people to sheep is just that a comparison, not a perfect match human "sheep" can be quite creative when on their own or if the shepherds is not looking out for their best interest. The point of the comparison (in my opinion) indicates people like to stick together and feel safe, which is valid.

I think this metaphor might come from the phrase "like sheep to the slaughter." But even that undermine's CC's analogy because the "shepards" most definitely do not have your best interests in mind, unlike his "Perfect Utopia "

[Arkhosia]

I have an intense desire to strike CC repeatedly with a baseball bat, and tell him, "I don't have a preference for beating you to death, I'm just superior."

I wonder if he'd get it.

No, what you do is DM a game of his rpg that takes place in your "perfect society", which is actually just the anti-Marty society, and DM his game like he did.

[Alejandro]

I wonder if he realizes that Amazon, Apple, and McDonald's all began as niche market ideas.

[jindra34]

I wonder if he realizes that Amazon, Apple, and McDonald's all began as niche market ideas.
And that many successful big companies literally started out of a single garage.

[Arkhosia]

And that many successful big companies literally started out of a single garage.

Also?, I don't think he knows how bad monopolies are, or supply and demand.

[Eldan]

Of course nothing new ever grows and gets big. That's why we are still ruled by Hamurabi the CCIVth.

[Arbane]

I wonder if he realizes that Amazon, Apple, and McDonald's all began as niche market ideas.


And that many successful big companies literally started out of a single garage.


Also?, I don't think he knows how bad monopolies are, or supply and demand.

Truly, is there any topic he ISN'T ignorant about?

[jindra34]

Truly, is there any topic he ISN'T ignorant about?

Imperial/Monarchial theory?

[Feddlefew]

Imperial/Monarchial theory?

"Of course there were no crazy kings. No one who was insane could ever rule a country."

[Arbane]

Imperial/Monarchial theory?

I'd bet good Monopoly money he's ignorant about THAT, too. He just likes what little he's heard.

Edit: ...And Feddlefew beat me to it with a better retort. :smalltongue:

Edit2: V I doubt CC understands that, either. As far as he's concerned, his UberNPC will be in charge because he says so. Like Bahumut from 8-Bit Theater, he rules by his own divine mandate.

[jindra34]

"Of course there were no crazy kings. No one who was insane could ever rule a country."

Note I said THEORY not history. Deranged kings, vile dictators, and other oppressive rulers don't change the theories behind why single people end up in power, they just paint a picture of various results.

EDIT:

I'd bet good Monopoly money he's ignorant about THAT, too. He just likes what little he's heard.
Except what small amount I've learned about it lines up pretty accurately with the logic Marty spews. If anything he's ignorant that his beliefs are those more so than not knowing the theories.

[Arkhosia]

"Of course there were no crazy kings. No one who was insane could ever rule a country."

Okay then, how to breathe?

[Mr Beer]

"it is the superior flavor. I don't have preferences, I just know what's best." - Marty.

LOL, I occasionally do say stuff like this...as a joke. But it sounds like Marty isn't joking...

EDIT

Oh God, he thinks there is no such things as revolutions or revolutionaries? arrrrhhhhhh

[The Fury]

Been away for a while I guess.

Damn. I thought I had some idea of how bad Chief Circle is but every new post reveals a new layer to how crappy he is. Sort of like a moldy onion.

That or considering how he's running C-tech, with any kind of sense or logic that the players try to apply being dismissed; the world always working the opposite of how the players think it does, it sounds very Kafka-esque. Maybe I had the Chief pegged wrong and he's trying a clever tactic of psychological horror by making the PCs unwittingly insane? After all, doesn't believing that you're the only ones who aren't crazy how crazy people think?

Naw, that's giving Chief waaay too much credit.

[Mx.Silver]

Why do I keep lurking in this thread? Every time I think CC's as bad as he's going to get, he just gets worse. How on earth did you people survive experiencing this first-hand?



I wonder if he realizes that Amazon, Apple, and McDonald's all began as niche market ideas.

Lets not even get into the irony of him wanting to market his tabletop RPG system while insisting niche markets are a waste of time.

[The Fury]

Lets not even get into the irony of him wanting to market a tabletop RPG while insisting niche markets are a waste of time.

I think it comes back to the belief that there's such a thing as a "superior product." If I recall, the SUE-system was designed to be a "Pathfinder-killer," therefore it's not niche but "superior" to Pathfinder.

At least that's how I understand Chief's thinking.

[Eldan]

Oh God, he thinks there is no such things as revolutions or revolutionaries? arrrrhhhhhh

He probably believes revolutions and revolutionaries exist, but is a believer in the "great people" theory of history. Social changes happen not because of circumstances or masses, they happen because of single, important people making the changes. Without those great people, the same broad social and economic circumstances would not create the same result.

(Also known as the Let's Travel Back in Time to Kill Hitler in the early thirties" theory of history.)

[Arkhosia]

I think it comes back to the belief that there's such a thing as a "superior product." If I recall, the SUE-system was designed to be a "Pathfinder-killer," therefore it's not niche but "superior" to Pathfinder.

At least that's how I understand Chief's thinking.

It's good to know that even if he does get it published, it'll never ever exceed his expectations.
And I'm not saying that with bias on pathfinder: it sells about as well as the 4e books!

[The Glyphstone]

It's good to know that even if he does get it published, it'll never ever exceed his expectations.
And I'm not saying that with bias on pathfinder: it sells about as well as the 4e books!

I'm sure if you asked him, his expectations would not simply be to outsell every other gaming system, but for the sales of every other system to instantly drop to zero as the world saw a 'superior' creation and devoted themselves unilaterally to playing it.

[Arkhosia]

I'm sure if you asked him, his expectations would not simply be to outsell every other gaming system, but for the sales of every other system to instantly drop to zero as the world saw a 'superior' creation and devoted themselves unilaterally to playing it.

And that's when I kill him by throwing my 4e and pathfinder textbooks at him. Hey look, those systems are better at killing a pompous ass!

[Feddlefew]

I'm sure if you asked him, his expectations would not simply be to outsell every other gaming system, but for the sales of every other system to instantly drop to zero as the world saw a 'superior' creation and devoted themselves unilaterally to playing it.

Yet more evidence for my "Chief Circle is a Lizardperson" theory: He can't comprehend humans having situational preferences. You know, like how someone might like butterscotch icecream the best, but sometimes they get cherry amaretto because they're in the mood for it....


Edit: found a better way to say it.

[Alejandro]

He needs a good few weeks working in construction or fast food, with a stern manager, and absolutely no other resources. Might help him see how the real world works. Or he'd throw himself into the fry maker.

[Arkhosia]

He needs a good few weeks working in construction or fast food, with a stern manager, and absolutely no other resources. Might help him see how the real world works. Or he'd throw himself into the fry maker.

Either way, it's probably for the best.

[Feddlefew]

Either way, it's probably for the best.

As long as they don't put him on mop duty. I don't trust his knowlage chemistry. :smalleek:

[Eldan]

Eh, don't worry. His shift manager would need Diplomacy, Bluff, Convince, Knowledge: Economy, Knowledge: Business, Knowledge: Physics and Craft: Argument to change his duties.

[Feddlefew]

Oh! That reminds me, I keep forgetting to repost this link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08xQLGWTSag) every time the skill system is mentioned!

[Qwertystop]

Actually, from that Cthulutech review that got posted... isn't the skill system SUE is using basically Cthulutech's?

Did he maybe take that as part of the setting, to be implemented?

[Feddlefew]

Chief Circle keeps sub-dividing skills, increasing the number of checks required, and stacking penalties until very basic tasks are almost, if not not actually impossible.

[georgie_leech]

CC's fundamental house rule: How many checks does this task require? One more than you can make.

[stupiddDice]

He needs a good few weeks working in construction or fast food, with a stern manager, and absolutely no other resources. Might help him see how the real world works. Or he'd throw himself into the fry maker.

Oh god, I can see him working in fast food.

[ "I'm sorry, chicken nuggets are an inferior food and I will not sell those, instead I will change your order to the much superior quarter-pounder."

Construction is even worse. I predict a body count in the mid-fifties at best with his understanding of physics and material science.

[Arkhosia]

Oh god, I can see him working in fast food.

[ "I'm sorry, chicken nuggets are an inferior food and I will not sell those, instead I will change your order to the much superior quarter-pounder."

Construction is even worse. I predict a body count in the mid-fifties at best with his understanding of physics and material science.

Oh well. Unemployment for him!

[Arbane]

Oh well. Unemployment for him!

I'm ok with this.


Oh! That reminds me, I keep forgetting to repost this link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08xQLGWTSag) every time the skill system is mentioned!

:smallbiggrin:

As always, There Is Trope For It. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooIncompetentToOperateABlanket)

[Feddlefew]

I'm ok with this.



:smallbiggrin:

As always, There Is Trope For It. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooIncompetentToOperateABlanket)

Where do you think I found the video? :smallwink:

[theIrkin]

Over the last 3 days I've read the entire second topic, and all the posts on the blog. I love the snark, and loved getting guys like Marty in my team when I was in the Marines. Breaking them was a special pleasure for me.

[Arkhosia]

Over the last 3 days I've read the entire second topic, and all the posts on the blog. I love the snark, and loved getting guys like Marty in my team when I was in the Marines. Breaking them was a special pleasure for me.

Go join again. Marty is gonna to. :Evilgrin:

And yes, I know I'm being a huge a-hole on this thread lately, but A: he deserves it, and B: it's really a great way to vent any anger. I'll recommend this thread to anyone with anger management problems.

[Alabenson]

Over the last 3 days I've read the entire second topic, and all the posts on the blog. I love the snark, and loved getting guys like Marty in my team when I was in the Marines. Breaking them was a special pleasure for me.

Sadly, any delight I take in the thought of having the arrogant stupid of Marty put through Marine training is tempered by the notion that there is more than one person like Marty out there in the world.

[One Step Two]

Go join again. Marty is gonna to. :Evilgrin:

And yes, I know I'm being a huge a-hole on this thread lately, but A: he deserves it, and B: it's really a great way to vent any anger. I'll recommend this thread to anyone with anger management problems.

If we didn't know that Trekkin and two other members of this gaming group confirming this was real. We'd be questioning if this wasn't some elaborate satire of a gaming group to make us all look inwards to find our own problems.
As Trekkin has found, it's a great way to see any flaws in your own GMing/playing style, because Marty appears to be the worst traits of a Roleplayer thrown into sharp relief. And if nothing else, you'll never find yourself as bad as him, and make the effort to improve.

[The New Bruceski]

Yet more evidence for my "Chief Circle is a Lizardperson" theory: He can't comprehend humans having situational preferences. You know, like how someone might like butterscotch icecream the best, but sometimes they get cherry amaretto because they're in the mood for it....


Edit: found a better way to say it.

Clearly chocolate is my favorite flavor despite it killing me if I were to eat it, and thus finding the odor repulsive.

[Feddlefew]

Clearly chocolate is my favorite flavor despite it killing me if I were to eat it, and thus finding the odor repulsive.

Are you also allergic to chocolate? If I eat it it causes migraines. Not that that stops me.

[The New Bruceski]

Are you also allergic to chocolate? If I eat it it causes migraines. Not that that stops me.

Technically peanuts, but cross-contamination is so common that I avoid all nuts and chocolate as if I were allergic to them as well. After 30 years of that I may as well be allergic, for the effect they have on me.

[Doc Kraken]

...people don't revolt?

People don't revolt?

Scratch, I dunno, opening a history textbook or turning on the news or something, all Marty would need to do is watch his own gaming group. That ought to set him straight.

[stupiddDice]

Should we even ask what Marty's opinion on the Arab Spring is? Especially since there is no visible leader for the entire movement.

Actually don't, I don't know what his opinion is, but I know it will be horribly offensive.

[Arbane]

Random thought, from re-reading the first thread:

If the writers who created the multiverse are "Authyrs", does that make katanae "Weapyns"?

sorry....

[stupiddDice]

Random thought, from re-reading the first thread:

If the writers who created the multiverse are "Authyrs", does that make katanae "Weapyns"?

sorry....

Considering the quality of Marty's works...

Yes, yes it does.

[Arkhosia]

...people don't revolt?

People don't revolt?

Scratch, I dunno, opening a history textbook or turning on the news or something, all Marty would need to do is watch his own gaming group. That ought to set him straight.

That misconception should have been fixed a long time ago in American history class.

[georgie_leech]

That misconception should have been fixed a long time ago in American history class.

Bad example, the American view of it tends to romanticise George Washington and the other Founding Fathers, contributing to his Great Person History view.

[Feddlefew]

Do you guys remember when we were posting links to terrifying chemistry and debating how/when best to escape from CC's gaming table instead of staring into the abyss of ignorance, immaturity, and narcissism? Those were the days. :smallfrown:

[Trekkin]

There is a reason I saved my shutdown post for last, Feddlefew. It's oddly nostalgic, now.

(Just to be totally clear, it's not up yet. But crazy chemistry is much more fun than crazy sociology.)

[The Fury]

...people don't revolt?

People don't revolt?

Scratch, I dunno, opening a history textbook or turning on the news or something, all Marty would need to do is watch his own gaming group. That ought to set him straight.

It would set a person with a negligible level of sanity straight, sure. From what I can tell it's not so much Marty isn't aware of people that do try to revolt but writes them all off as fringe crazies. As his gaming group opposes a "great and just individual" such as himself, they too are fringe crazies forever doomed to spin their wheels.

:smallsigh::smallmad:

[Trekkin]

It occurs to me I should probably tell the thread: Work on the next post may be a bit slow until I get a replacement laptop, because this one is rapidly self-destructing. Sorry, everyone.

[Jornophelanthas]

It would set a person with a negligible level of sanity straight, sure. From what I can tell it's not so much Marty isn't aware of people that do try to revolt but writes them all off as fringe crazies. As his gaming group opposes a "great and just individual" such as himself, they too are fringe crazies forever doomed to spin their wheels.

:smallsigh::smallmad:

I agree with this reading. Remember what happened to Trekkin's character in the prelude campaign? He refused to comply to the almighty boss organization's ideology, and was branded "criminally insane for life, and no you are not getting your character back".

[Balmas]

Incredible. CC's finally reached the point where nothing I can do will really add too much to the mockery. He's made it too easy, and himself too pathetic.

Just several notes:


Off the top of my head, I can think of three revolutions in history.
Each of those three revolutions was, more or less, successful.
In each of those three revolutions, the goal was to take the power out of the hands of a too-powerful government.

[Eldan]

I don't tihnk he denies the existence of revolutions. What he's saying is that "the people" would not revolt without big charismatic, intelligent, etc. leaders who are the ones having the ideas and making the changes.

The American Revolution has Washington and Franklin and Jefferson etc. The French Revolution has Danton and Marat and Carnot and, well, Robespierre etc. And so on, for every revolution.

The people don't rebel, because they are sheep. There is a problem at some point because the government isn't good enough, but the people won't do anything about it until a Great Person comes along and tells them how to. Travel back in time and remove Franklin, Washington, Jefferson and a few other founding fathers when they were teenagers and the revolution never happens.

[Alejandro]

I'd bet $20 that Marty himself is also (outwardly or quietly) a serious racist.

[The Glyphstone]

I agree with this reading. Remember what happened to Trekkin's character in the prelude campaign? He refused to comply to the almighty boss organization's ideology, and was branded "criminally insane for life, and no you are not getting your character back".

Not even that... he was punished for success, because engaging in diplomacy instead of an impossible fight removed the chance for the Uber-NPC-Junior to come in and show how awesome he was. Not that the PCs were told he was there backing them up, they were explicitly told otherwise, but successful people who are not Marty in the Martyverse are by definition and empirical evidence criminally insane.

[The Fury]

Not even that... he was punished for success, because engaging in diplomacy instead of an impossible fight removed the chance for the Uber-NPC-Junior to come in and show how awesome he was. Not that the PCs were told he was there backing them up, they were explicitly told otherwise, but successful people who are not Marty in the Martyverse are by definition and empirical evidence criminally insane.

Actually it's even worse; he was punished for being lucky. He tried a tactic that he didn't think would work but got two natural 20s in a row. The moral of the story? Nudge your die rolls for natural 1s to keep DM Marty happy.

[Mando Knight]

but successful people who are not Marty in the Martyverse are by definition and empirical evidence criminally insane.

This is because the Martyverse definition of sanity is "defers all competency and agency to Marty."

[Arkhosia]

I don't tihnk he denies the existence of revolutions. What he's saying is that "the people" would not revolt without big charismatic, intelligent, etc. leaders who are the ones having the ideas and making the changes.

The American Revolution has Washington and Franklin and Jefferson etc. The French Revolution has Danton and Marat and Carnot and, well, Robespierre etc. And so on, for every revolution.

The people don't rebel, because they are sheep. There is a problem at some point because the government isn't good enough, but the people won't do anything about it until a Great Person comes along and tells them how to. Travel back in time and remove Franklin, Washington, Jefferson and a few other founding fathers when they were teenagers and the revolution never happens.

That's the problem: The people don't rebel because some Uberdude suddenly appears, they learn his opinion is superior, and follow him.
They rebel because a person who promises them a better deal then they have and can be, as far as they know, trusted to keep the promise, and be able to actually have a good chance to win, again from what they can tell.
People aren't sheep, but they just need hope or trust.

[Trekkin]

Well said, Arkhosia.

More and more, I have a glimmer of hope that the epilogue for this thing is going to amuse everyone.

[Arkhosia]

Well said, Arkhosia.
Thanks! That's going in a sig box!

[jindra34]

Well said, Arkhosia.

More and more, I have a glimmer of hope that the epilogue for this thing is going to amuse everyone.

You mean outside of being so horribly done its entertaining?

[Jane_Doe]

Pardon me if I've misunderstood something, but I've a question regarding CC's portrayal of the scenario...

The giant company who employs 1/3 of all people and is functionally indistinguishable from the government as a result of its extensive infiltration is run by an evil god bent on extinguishing the failing remains of humanity, correct? And it has obtained this position by discreetly killing or corrupting anyone opposed to their plans? And this isn't a dystopia because, hey, cheap high-quality goods until you're all sucked into (the setting-equivalent of) The Warp when Evil God finally gets his way or stumble upon The Truth and are killed for it :smallconfused:?

It almost seems like he wants CT to be the good guys, up until the part where they're forced into the position of being the bad guys by virtue of the fact that there would be no plot if such a powerful organization weren't evil*.

...That, or he has a very unique personal definition of "dystopia". I mean, "The bad guys can effortlessly track everyone's move while being invisible, with the full support of everyone who matters" is pretty textbook dystopia.

*Also that he probably wouldn't regard them as evil if there plans were for global domination, rather than extermination, given Ao-sue's "utopia"...

---

Incidentally, (not really being familiar with Cthullutech's setting, beyond hearing it's squicky), wouldn't Nyarlothep's plans presumably require a lot of resources (given that he'd have otherwise initiated the final stages when they were only employing 1/5 or 1/7 of the population or whatever)? CT is evil because, well, it's trying to do evil Elder Gody Things, no? As these don't further the corporate agenda of CT, they are functionally identical to waste - if we assume that the market is perfectly efficient, then wouldn't a company NOT wasting a bunch of time and money trying to kill everything have replaced CT as a more efficient alternative? Every minute letting abombinations eat the souls of your board of directors is a minute not spent optimizing the factory's logistics, after all...

[Balmas]

I don't tihnk he denies the existence of revolutions. What he's saying is that "the people" would not revolt without big charismatic, intelligent, etc. leaders who are the ones having the ideas and making the changes.

So, in the party, we have three people who are big, charismatic, intelligent people, facing off against an obviously evil, corrupt government-corporation, and trying to incite the people to throw off their shackles.

Totally different.


I'd bet $20 that Marty himself is also (outwardly or quietly) a serious racist.

Well, he's already everything else-ist, so why not add racist to the list?

[Qwertystop]

Incidentally, (not really being familiar with Cthullutech's setting, beyond hearing it's squicky), wouldn't Nyarlothep's plans presumably require a lot of resources (given that he'd have otherwise initiated the final stages when they were only employing 1/5 or 1/7 of the population or whatever)? CT is evil because, well, it's trying to do evil Elder Gody Things, no? As these don't further the corporate agenda of CT, they are functionally identical to waste - if we assume that the market is perfectly efficient, then wouldn't a company NOT wasting a bunch of time and money trying to kill everything have replaced CT as a more efficient alternative? Every minute letting abombinations eat the souls of your board of directors is a minute not spent optimizing the factory's logistics, after all...

Seems like it, but on the other hand you have the advantages of having all sorts of not-Elder-God things to clear out the competition before it gets big, thus letting you keep the monopoly that keeps resources incoming? I haven't read it either, but that seems like it might fit.

[jindra34]

Seems like it, but on the other hand you have the advantages of having all sorts of not-Elder-God things to clear out the competition before it gets big, thus letting you keep the monopoly that keeps resources incoming? I haven't read it either, but that seems like it might fit.

Kinda sorta. There are several groups with different goals for humanity (one each for enslavement, conversion and extinction). And for obvious reasons they don't get along, and none can get what they want if they get in direct conflict with each other. Which makes things a bit more complex.

[Jane_Doe]

Ah, apologies, I was a spot unclear; I meant to question how, under CC's understanding of economics, CT would manage to be such a dominant company despite suffering such a significant handicap.

If one recognizes the existence of more factors (as most economic theories that don't rely on blind faith in the market do), it's easy for CT to be a dominant force - buying out competition when they're small and cheap, mind controlling their opposition into handing over their secrets, pressuring the government into criminalizing anyone but them using nanotech, so on and so forth...

...But that has nothing to do with providing a superior customer experience, which CC cited as why nobody could outcompete them.

It just seems that the scenario, as written, would seem to directly contradict CC's belief in the efficiency of markets, unless one assumes CT isn't actually spending any time on anything evil, which would be... Unusual.

[georgie_leech]

It more stems from a desire to limit anything the PC's could possibly do than to make sense from an economic perspective. CC isn't trying to create a plausible scenario, but a self-congratulatory world where he is all-powerful.

[One Step Two]

It more stems from a desire to limit anything the PC's could possibly do than to make sense from an economic perspective. CC isn't trying to create a plausible scenario, but a self-congratulatory world where he is all-powerful.

I think this sums up every issue we have, or will see moving forwards with the blog. It might be grand assumption to say this, but if we view things through Marty's scope of:

"Will this make my Ao-Sue, and by extension me, look better?"

What's truly fascinating, is how he can percive the fact that he needs to retroactively alter reality to prevent free-will, essentially, as being something everyone will want.

"Fight or Flight? That's strictly inferior to submissive acceptance of my glorious rule!"

[A_Man]

See, I'm still shocked by his supremacist attitude. I mean, not to gear into politics, but I think he's right about some stuff, but doesn't actually understand what his opinion means, at all.

Assuming he is correct, that the best product is the only one that sells. (Which is mostly false, but lets assume that is 100% true). There is never a perfect product. I mean, everything can be approved upon, and that's why a monopoly could break (at least, it could break if they didn't use corporate espionage). It's just so ridiculous for him to state that there isn't anything better then what certain people come up with. :smallfurious:

Bah, I'm afraid to see the next post.

[Feddlefew]

Bah, I'm afraid to see the next post.

I hope it involves fluorine chemistry. 8^D

[Jane_Doe]

It more stems from a desire to limit anything the PC's could possibly do than to make sense from an economic perspective. CC isn't trying to create a plausible scenario, but a self-congratulatory world where he is all-powerful.

Well, true :smallannoyed: .

It's just annoying to see someone come up with something so contradictory without any recognition that there's a contradiction at all :smallannoyed: .

I guess this must be how some scientists felt when he outlawed relativity, declared a blanket immunity to "chemicals", and somehow replaced all the DNA in a body to foil forensics...

[Eldan]

Someone should show him the perfect pasta sauce experiment. Though I'm sure he can just ignore it or rationalize it away.

[A_Man]

Someone should show him the perfect pasta sauce experiment. Though I'm sure he can just ignore it or rationalize it away.

Which is? I searched it up, but got a video about a Australian Chef talking about pasta. (Which, thinking about it, could be what you are talking about.)

[Eldan]

The really short version is this:

A company wants to find out how to make the perfect pasta sauce. So they start an experiment where they have twelve (I think) sauces with different tastes and consistencies. Lo and behold, it turns out that there is no perfect sauce, people have different tastes. You make more money producing three or four varieties than one variety that pleases everyone.
Additionally, people don't tell you what they want if you ask them. That's the coffee experiment. People regularly mention that they like their coffee black, strong, roasted in particular ways, etc. It seems when it comes to buying, they prefer tons of milk and sugar instead.

Search for Malcom Gladwell, that should put you on the right track. He loves talking about that one.

[A_Man]

The really short version is this:

A company wants to find out how to make the perfect pasta sauce. So they start an experiment where they have twelve (I think) sauces with different tastes and consistencies. Lo and behold, it turns out that there is no perfect sauce, people have different tastes. You make more money producing three or four varieties than one variety that pleases everyone.
Additionally, people don't tell you what they want if you ask them. That's the coffee experiment. People regularly mention that they like their coffee black, strong, roasted in particular ways, etc. It seems when it comes to buying, they prefer tons of milk and sugar instead.

Search for Malcom Gladwell, that should put you on the right track. He loves talking about that one.

Cool, thanks. ^_^

[Feddlefew]

Do most people even use the same sauce for different kinds of pasta?

[Sith_Happens]

Should we even ask what Marty's opinion on the Arab Spring is? Especially since there is no visible leader for the entire movement.

Obviously Facebook and Twitter became sentient some time in 2010 and devoted themselves to the ousting of Middle Eastern dictators.


So, in the party, we have three people who are big, charismatic, intelligent people, facing off against an obviously evil, corrupt government-corporation, and trying to incite the people to throw off their shackles.

Totally different.

"You aren't high level enough to be successful revolutionaries."


Additionally, people don't tell you what they want if you ask them. That's the coffee experiment. People regularly mention that they like their coffee black, strong, roasted in particular ways, etc. It seems when it comes to buying, they prefer tons of milk and sugar instead.

Kind of like I how wanted to spend my summer playing video games, but ended up piddling away hour after hour here on GiantITP instead?:smallredface::smallbiggrin:

[Arkhosia]

I have to wonder if he takes the same attitude about other major issues like religion. God, that would be awful!
"My beliefs are superior because I get an afterlife, and only I'm superior enough to be there."
Also, don't tell Marty that the nazis beat him to the superiority complex. Let him live in his delusional world. It'll only hurt harder when reality finally hits.

[georgie_leech]

I have to wonder if he takes the same attitude about other major issues like religion. God, that would be awful!
"My beliefs are superior because I get an afterlife, and only I'm superior enough to be there."
Also, don't tell Marty that the nazis beat him to the superiority complex. Let him live in his delusional world. It'll only hurt harder when reality finally hits.

CC literally believes that the best possible ruler, not just for this world, or universe, but every possible universe in existence, including the fictional ones, is an extension of his personality, if not being delusional enough to actually believe himself when he claims Marty is himself. I think he might actually be more delusional than those that believed in the "master "race," if only because they don't believe in a single perfect being. :smalleek:

[Mx.Silver]

The really short version is this:

A company wants to find out how to make the perfect pasta sauce. So they start an experiment where they have twelve (I think) sauces with different tastes and consistencies. Lo and behold, it turns out that there is no perfect sauce, people have different tastes. You make more money producing three or four varieties than one variety that pleases everyone.

IIRC, one of the more interesting things about that experiment was that, of the three main groups of sauce people were interested in, the third wasn't one the company (or indeed any of the sauce companies) had realised was in demand. It wasn't just that there wasn't a single perfect sauce; there was more variance in demand than anyone predicted because no one had realised how many relevant variables there were.

[Arbane]

Hey, Trekkin - how did the Martyverse handle worlds with provable afterlives?

...Besides "badly", I mean.

[The New Bruceski]

Of course were someone to try that with salsa they would find there is only One True Salsa, a perfect blend of flavor and heat. None of that watery stuff or the nothing-but-chile type.

[Doc Kraken]

I'd bet $20 that Marty himself is also (outwardly or quietly) a serious racist.

I think I recall a comparison to Mayonnaise Quirke of Discworld (in)fame, so yeah...


Well said, Arkhosia.

More and more, I have a glimmer of hope that the epilogue for this thing is going to amuse everyone.

I know I'm excited! Or horrified. Exorrified?

[The Fury]

Jim Sterling did a video on the "Perfect Pasta Sauce" too:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7161-Perfect-Pasta-Sauce

[MirddinEmris]

"You aren't high level enough to be successful revolutionaries."


"You don't know what people want, but corporation does because it's leaders are smart and successful. That's why there can't be a revolt, if you'd understand sociology better, you would know it"

[Mando Knight]

People regularly mention that they like their coffee black, strong, roasted in particular ways, etc. It seems when it comes to buying, they prefer tons of milk and sugar instead.

...But I do generally drink my coffee black...

[ko_sct]

...But I do generally drink my coffee black...

That's what you think.

Joking aside, I've also seen an experiment where the subjects had to taste, like, 3 applesauce or something (I don't remember the details). When asked which one they preferred, most people would say they preferred applesauce number2. But, when asked which one they preferred and why, the results where different. Why ? Because flavors are complex and hard to describe, when you have to say which one you preferred, people tend to focus on difference they can easily taste, like which one is sweeter and all that, instead of the overall taste.

Foods for thoughts

[Qwertystop]

That's what you think.

Joking aside, I've also seen an experiment where the subjects had to taste, like, 3 applesauce or something (I don't remember the details). When asked which one they preferred, most people would say they preferred applesauce number2. But, when asked which one they preferred and why, the results where different. Why ? Because flavors are complex and hard to describe, when you have to say which one you preferred, people tend to focus on difference they can easily taste, like which one is sweeter and all that, instead of the overall taste.

Foods for thoughts

Thoughts on food.

[Big Fau]

"You don't know what people want, but corporation does because it's leaders are smart and successful. That's why there can't be a revolt, if you'd understand sociology better, you would know it"

You people keep using that word...

It's been bugging me since I just finished Intro to Sociology as an elective.

[Feddlefew]

You people keep using that word...

It's been bugging me since I just finished Intro to Sociology as an elective.

Psychology? Or History?

[MirddinEmris]

Can you elaborate what exactly is bugging you?

[Big Fau]

Can you elaborate what exactly is bugging you?

Sociology. In the context of the quote, it's use isn't what I would call accurate. Can't elaborate right now due to classes, but another field of study would be more appropriate (like Feddlefew suggested).

[Deadline]

Sociology. In the context of the quote, it's use isn't what I would call accurate. Can't elaborate right now due to classes, but another field of study would be more appropriate (like Feddlefew suggested).

Isn't sociology the study of human social behavior? Or is that anthropology? Given that the statement was presumably discussing revolution (arguably a social movement), I would think looking to individuals would be the wrong place.

So naturally, the MartySpeech should be changed to be as inaccurate as possible. Maybe swap out Sociology in that quote for something mind boggling? How about Genealogy?

[Alejandro]

I think I recall a comparison to Mayonnaise Quirke of Discworld (in)fame, so yeah...



I know I'm excited! Or horrified. Exorrified?

Many of his beliefs are very ubermensch. In fact, a lot of how Marty seems to think is very, very Nietzsche. Trekkin, do you know if Marty is a fan of ol' Freidrich?

[Trekkin]

Many of his beliefs are very ubermensch. In fact, a lot of how Marty seems to think is very, very Nietzsche. Trekkin, do you know if Marty is a fan of ol' Freidrich?

Yes. In the most irritating way imaginable. Quotes out of context left and right, coupled with a complete misunderstanding of how contradictory he could be and the assumption that he's "basically a nihilist."

[Alejandro]

Yes. In the most irritating way imaginable. Quotes out of context left and right, coupled with a complete misunderstanding of how contradictory he could be and the assumption that he's "basically a nihilist."


So, have you ever told him, 'Katana God is dead?' :D

[Big Fau]

Isn't sociology the study of human social behavior? Or is that anthropology?

Anthropology is the study of behavior. Sociology is the study of society and culture, and is divided into two major categories (Post-Modernism, the study of individuals and how they interact with society, and Functionalism, the study of society as a structure and what creates that structure). While Sociology does look at human behavior, it doesn't focus on it nearly as much as it focuses on cultural/social norms and why they exist.

[Mx.Silver]

Yes. In the most irritating way imaginable. Quotes out of context left and right, coupled with a complete misunderstanding of how contradictory he could be and the assumption that he's "basically a nihilist."



the assumption that he's "basically a nihilist."



"basically a nihilist."


I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess that CC hasn't actually read Neitchze and the reason the quotes are out of context is because that's how he's come across them.
Either that or he's a real-life Otto from A Fish Called Wanda.

[The Glyphstone]

Remember, 'basically' is CC-ese for 'I reserve the right to retcon what I actually said or meant at any current or future moment'

[The Fury]

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and guess that CC hasn't actually read Neitchze and the reason the quotes are out of context is because that's how he's come across them.
Either that or he's a real-life Otto from A Fish Called Wanda.

Hey! If he watches the Big Lebowski he can know as much about nihilism as... someone... who has heard the word used in some context before.

[llehctim]

Hey, Trekkin - how did the Martyverse handle worlds with provable afterlives?

...Besides "badly", I mean.

Depended on the setting, a D&D (like) universe would have planes of existance where people went when they died, I assume in CT you get eaten by either and old one or and elder god of some sort when you died.

Also worth noting is that I pointed out that Marty was basically one of the Elder Evils that were manipulating humanity for their goals, and was making a paladin of freedom to specifically stand up for humans and be anti monster (of all types). He reasoned that Marty Stu was human and I disagreed Strongly that he had left that behind when he became a god, and gods are not well appreciated in CT.

I forgot to mention Ian's long term goals before the game ended and he got stuck in some sort of 'he's on the run from people tracking the eye' etc. epilogue. As a disclaimer I think when we get to that it may go in the religious direction, since I figured if only the cults are able to do anything in this damn setting the only chance we had would be to use religion against the cults. And its worth noting that Ian's opinion on how to interpert the verse's isn't at all valid outside of the game, and that he had snapped at this point.

Also in his defense I am pretty sure a lot of the crap he spouted was him "fast" talking to "win" an "argument", I suspect he doesn't believe all of it (in real life), but it is really annoying that his RPGs do have these beliefs as basically true.

[MirddinEmris]

Sociology. In the context of the quote, it's use isn't what I would call accurate. Can't elaborate right now due to classes, but another field of study would be more appropriate (like Feddlefew suggested).

I think that it is highly appropriate because it really reflects CC's ignorance))

[Big Fau]

I think that it is highly appropriate because it really reflects CC's ignorance))

Given his track record, it isn't inaccurate enough...

[MirddinEmris]

Given his track record, it isn't inaccurate enough...

Good - when i would be able to impersonate CC accurate enough, i should get help

[Kish]

Also in his defense I am pretty sure a lot of the crap he spouted was him "fast" talking to "win" an "argument", I suspect he doesn't believe all of it (in real life), but it is really annoying that his RPGs do have these beliefs as basically true.
"In his defense, he argues with absolutely no intellectual integrity whatsoever."

It's really sad when that's what a defense looks like.

[aleucard]

Why in the name of Bea Arthur hasn't this prick had his ass kicked yet? If he specifically ****ed over players so he could masturbate with his NPCs while having an audience, the entire player group should've walked. A person that ****s over people like that does not deserve to be called 'friend' by anyone save comparable backstabbing ********s.

Tangentially, do you know how he's doing in whatever job was stupid enough to put this guy on their payroll? This kind of ignorance tends to be toxic when it comes to any sort of interaction, even if he's at the head of the group (which he won't be, so that makes it worse).

[Sith_Happens]

Uh oh, looks like someone finally broke.

[Feddlefew]

The sad thing is a Chief Circle isn't the most infuriating human I know of.

[Arkhosia]

The sad thing is a Chief Circle isn't the most infuriating human I know of.

Same here, but that may just be because I haven't really ever met CC, and one can't gauge how infuriating one is unless they meet them.

[llehctim]

The sad thing is a Chief Circle isn't the most infuriating human I know of.

I think you are doing it wrong, let me try "The sad thing is he is not the most infuriating humans I know, and doesn't make the top 10 for those I know of." -Me

[Sith_Happens]

I think you are doing it wrong, let me try "The sad thing is he is not the most infuriating humans I know, and doesn't make the top 10 for those I know of." -Me

You poor, poor thing.

[Cristo Meyers]

Why in the name of Bea Arthur hasn't this prick had his ass kicked yet? If he specifically ****ed over players so he could masturbate with his NPCs while having an audience, the entire player group should've walked. A person that ****s over people like that does not deserve to be called 'friend' by anyone save comparable backstabbing ********s.

Tangentially, do you know how he's doing in whatever job was stupid enough to put this guy on their payroll? This kind of ignorance tends to be toxic when it comes to any sort of interaction, even if he's at the head of the group (which he won't be, so that makes it worse).

Let it out, man, it's good for the soul.

I made it all the way to the most recent post without thinking pretty much the exact same thing. It's GM's like him that make me even more fervent in my belief of no gaming is always better than bad gaming.

[The Fury]

"In his defense, he argues with absolutely no intellectual integrity whatsoever."

It's really sad when that's what a defense looks like.

Not really, it basically (there's that word again!) means that Chief's just arrogant and petty as opposed to an irredeemable smeg head. That doesn't make him not awful but it sort of makes him a bit less awful.

[Trekkin]

New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/suethulhu-blinding-cael-with-science.html). Sorry there's not much fluoride chemistry here.

[VeliciaL]

Is it sad that, when seeing Marty's view of intelligence, I'm not surprised at the least? :smallconfused:

ADDENDUM: The more I read, the more this sounds like the most amusing distopia ever. It sounds like a scenario invented to drive a chemist mad: elements stop existing as soon as you find a use for them.

ADDENDUM LE SECOND: He banned dolphins. Dolphins. He. Banned. Dolphins.

There are no words.

[jindra34]

VeliciaL: Paranoia is the most amusing distopia ever. This is just sad.

[VeliciaL]

VeliciaL: Paranoia is the most amusing distopia ever. This is just sad.

Ok, I'll give you that one.

[Forrestfire]

Obviously, chemistry is a sapient being that is actively thwarting the PCs' efforts. How fitting, given the setting :smalltongue:

[VeliciaL]

Oh my god, the GLaDOS quote... that and the quote before it have just made the blog, I think.

[jindra34]

Given the lack of logic, I'm not surprised that nothing was coherent in his shutdowns. And that ban list... OW!

[Forrestfire]

Should have tried to get him to ban water. I wonder if bringing electrolysis would do it?

[TuggyNE]

"Genes are like muscles; the more you use them, the more you end up with, and the more are passed on to your offspring, like with giraffe necks."

Ladies and gentlebeings, I give you the supreme ruler of the multiverse. Let's all give him a hand, shall we? If he gets enough, his innumerable children will all have more hands than they know what to do with!

[Axinian]

So what's preventing you from explaining why you wanted dolphins? I would love to hear why he thinks dolphins would be extinct or whatever.

[Trekkin]

Same thing as before, really, although I also wanted them to look for all the defunct EOD mecha that were apparently just left in shallowish water and I can probably mention that. We couldn't get boats to do it, you see. The other things I wanted them to look for you can probably guess.

He didn't declare them extinct so much as insane. Apparently all the mecha noise and sonar messed with their heads, so they're not trainable, we can't get near them without them trying to kill us, et cetera. I believe there was some mention of this having driven down their numbers, though.