The SUE Files, Part II

[Deffers]

Chief Circle's brain is a marvel of science; it manages to darken the world through the use of tiny sparks of electricity.

[Mx.Silver]

New post. (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/suethulu-we-do-something-significant_17.html) It only gets worse from here, people.

The sad part is that I can't even bring myself to doubt that.




trawling doesn't happen anymore so we can't use a trawl net machine

Y'know what? This... could actually make sense.
Given that trawling is already fairly controversial, growing more so with dwindling fish stock, then it isn't that unreasonable to-

Apparently commercial fishing is now done entirely via angling regardless of species
Never mind. False alarm everyone. As you were.




"Likewise, spare parts are cheap why would there be a maintenance or safety thing?"

...

Moving on.




Wait. The Auditors of Reality!?!

What.

I don't ev-

Why would y-

What?

[One Step Two]

[Turns off sanity for a moment]

Okay. So... Chrysalis being so amazingly successful, due to no competetion whatsoever, can dedicate intense amounts of funding to security to a facility that makes nets for volleyball. I think I know why.
In an age of nanofabrication, actual industrial machinery are rarities. You've broken into an Industrial Museum of some sort.

[Re-engages sanity]

But the decibels... they don't- I cant't even... Maybe that's why the security is there, to keep people from liquefying the neighbours, the whole place is a health hazard.

I love how he called you guys being obvious. Kevlar nets. Even if they could even peice together the crimes, the end result, is Kevlar Nets.

It's not like collecting [redacted] to combine with [redacted] to make a dirty bomb.

I would love to hear the charges, beyond theft, and breaking and entering, the insane logic behind whatever crime of the century you guys would be guilty of would be mind-numbingly entertaining.

[BRC]

I'm going to go into his thoughts on ethics more fully later, as part of the retrospective we did at the end, but basically yes. Marty's RPG ethos doesn't really have a Good/Neutral/Evil axis. More of a Servile/Irritating/Wrong axis.

But their only agenda is to wipe out all life in order to simplify the cosmic paperwork. That is literally their only goal.

I don't know what's worse, if he just decided that Vamp!Marty could come up with some argument that would recruit them, or if he actually came up with some argument himself that he believes would get nigh-omnipotent cosmic bureaucrats to obey him.

That said, this IS The guy who thinks that saying "Hey, you're being racist and should stop" would get Emperor Palpatine to hand over his empire.

I think that is one of the worst parts of this entire affair. He gives himself omnipotent god-powers, but only uses them to make him look really pretty (Vampire), give himself a big house, and travel between worlds. His most egregious stunts, like conquering the multiverse, Vamp!Marty does without his author-powers (No I'm not spelling it however it's spelled). He honestly believes that, if you put him in a room with The Emperor, he could get him to hand over the Empire. Then, if the Multiverse was a thing, he could use the Star Wars empire to conquer the rest of it with flawless tactics, then rule it.

My floor might be covered in LESS vomit if Vamp!Marty just wrote himself an endless army of indestructible superships. But no, he obviously thinks he's capable of these things.

I predict that Marty has a long future of posting lengthy comments on political news stories telling that politicians who are discussed in the article what he thinks they should be doing, then becoming outraged when his policy suggestions are not taken to heart.

[A_Man]

:smallfrown:

I really shouldn't read this blog. It's harming my brain cells.

But seriously, it's hard to read since, from what I can tell, Marty is trying to make a campaign, but is just too.... Arrogant to admit that he didn't plan for something, and just makes a stupid claim.

You know, maybe Marty realizes he is a horrible GM? But can't admit that he is, so he's stuck in a endless circle of realizing how stupid he is, while putting a front up to hide it.

[Arbane]

Where would you go fishing? The Great Lakes are probably pretty well depleted, and the open ocean is swarming with Deep Ones.


I think that is one of the worst parts of this entire affair. He gives himself omnipotent god-powers, but only uses them to make him look really pretty (Vampire), give himself a big house, and travel between worlds. His most egregious stunts, like conquering the multiverse, Vamp!Marty does without his author-powers (No I'm not spelling it however it's spelled). He honestly believes that, if you put him in a room with The Emperor, he could get him to hand over the Empire. Then, if the Multiverse was a thing, he could use the Star Wars empire to conquer the rest of it with flawless tactics, then rule it.


Actually he is doing all this stuff with his author-powers: the only reason Sephiroth Cullen succeeds at ANYTHING is Writer Fiat. As long as CC is in love with his self-insert character, the only thing he can ever fail at is being credible.

And BOY HOWDY he fails HARD at that.



My floor might be covered in LESS vomit if Vamp!Marty just wrote himself an endless army of indestructible superships. But no, he obviously thinks he's capable of these things.

Like I said back in the first thread, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is one helluva drug. I look forward to CC's impending face-first collision with reality.

[MirddinEmris]

Marty proved, that stupidity isn't the lack of intelligence, but a thing itself.

[Mx.Silver]

I think I'd like to cast a vote for 'Immune to Chemicals' as the next thread title.

Go team. Mostly quoted this just because your name fits with A_Man's



You know, maybe Marty realizes he is a horrible GM? But can't admit that he is, so he's stuck in a endless circle of realizing how stupid he is, while putting a front up to hide it.

By way of an answer, I refer you to back to this:

See, Marty calibrated the SUE System Int by assigning himself (meaning GM!Marty, not vampire Marty) a score of 18, the highest possible, and scaling everything else relative to himself -- but keeping the average at 10
This is not the action of a man who is aware of his own idiocy.

[TeChameleon]

... is it wrong that I have this bizarre urge to take the SUEniverse and write fanfiction where all those involved suddenly revert back to their canon personalities? The fallout of this enormous clusterfail would be entertaining in a train-wreck sort of way...

[Magatsu Izanagi]

... is it wrong that I have this bizarre urge to take the SUEniverse and write fanfiction where all those involved suddenly revert back to their canon personalities? The fallout of this enormous clusterfail would be entertaining in a train-wreck sort of way...
That thought has crossed my mind more than a few times, but then I realized that even more madness lies down that path, and I don't want to deal with that.

[johnbragg]

... is it wrong that I have this bizarre urge to take the SUEniverse and write fanfiction where all those involved suddenly revert back to their canon personalities? The fallout of this enormous clusterfail would be entertaining in a train-wreck sort of way...

The problem is that, under the same or similar principles, everything would start falling apart. If Antimony is no longer a thing, there's something off about the physics, so all of the star drives have problems.

If they exist as anything other than extensions of the Awthyrr's wish fulfillment, they will be subject to the same barriers to accomplishing anything as the PC"s. Thrawn and the rest will be lucky to brush their teeth in the morning, having to make three skill checks to get out of bed, one to walk down the hall, five to open the bathroom door and who-knows-how-many to have a toothbrush and toothpaste.

Although the Auditors may be a different case. They're not likely to be stopped by mere idiotic game mechanics and mind-breakingly stupid world-building. Or maybe mind-breakingly stupid-worldbuilding would break the Auditors. They would have some sympathy with the Awthyrr's lack of imagination and sometime-dedication to canon, i.e. keeping everything exactly the way it is and keeping endlessly meticulous records of how awesome everything is.

But they would have little tolerance for Marty breaking canon. That is--untidy.

[Sir_Mopalot]

Ooh, if we're still thinking about thread titles, what about "The Sue File, Part 3(hundred decibels)"?

[Feddlefew]

... So apparently last night I had an AGABLARGABLARGA! moment as my brain shielded me from the full brunt of Chief Circle inanity. :smalleek:

[TuggyNE]

Ooh, if we're still thinking about thread titles, what about "The Sue File, Part 3(hundred decibels)"?

That. Yes, that.

[The Random NPC]

But the decibels... they don't- I cant't even... Maybe that's why the security is there, to keep people from liquefying the neighbours, the whole place is a health hazard.

FYI, the decibels are the least implausible thing, since they are a unitless measure of relative change, without a reference point we have no idea how much of an increase 300 dB is. That would be pretty stupid, but all we know is the sound level increased by 10^30 units of measure from an arbitrary reference point. With a sufficiently small reference point, 300 dBs wouldn't be that loud. Of course that most likely reference point would be the level of sound before the machine was activated, but I've lost too many brain cells already, and I need to save them where I can.

[Eldan]

Really? I had no idea.

So when you read things like a rock concert or blue whale being a hundred something decibel loud, that doesn't actually mean much? Or is there an agreed standard reference point?

[TuggyNE]

Really? I had no idea.

So when you read things like a rock concert or blue whale being a hundred something decibel loud, that doesn't actually mean much? Or is there an agreed standard reference point?

There's an agreed standard for most purposes, yes. I seem to recall it's a milliwatt (and WP confirms), but sometimes it's RMS voltage instead, or some other measurement.

Unless otherwise specified, sound decibels are relative to milliwatts.

[Big Fau]

This is a guy who will laugh at the "shoddy" security at the local dump, because they let trucks in without scanning all the garbage for infiltrators.

Does he seriously do that? Cause it would explain a whole lot about why he was being so obstinate about you guys' attempts to MacGuyver solutions around his "encounters". He likely expected you to Leeroy Jenkins every mission so his NPCs could save you guys.

[Mx.Silver]

Actually, you know what?

Yeah, still not passing this on; I am NOT going to drag Discworld though this.
Not good enough. You've opened the door now, we need to all see what's on the other side. It's the only way.
It's already too late to save our sanity; it's too far to turn back.
We need to see what happened to Discworld.

It must be known.

[jindra34]

Does he seriously do that? Cause it would explain a whole lot about why he was being so obstinate about you guys' attempts to MacGuyver solutions around his "encounters". He likely expected you to Leeroy Jenkins every mission so his NPCs could save you guys.

You really have to ask?


Also at this point I'm really hope reality hits him hard enough that he will at least not publish the system without accepting help. Its going the route of the usual system that will not be named.

[Mando Knight]

FYI, the decibels are the least implausible thing, since they are a unitless measure of relative change, without a reference point we have no idea how much of an increase 300 dB is. That would be pretty stupid, but all we know is the sound level increased by 10^30 units of measure from an arbitrary reference point. With a sufficiently small reference point, 300 dBs wouldn't be that loud. Of course that most likely reference point would be the level of sound before the machine was activated, but I've lost too many brain cells already, and I need to save them where I can.

Standard reference point for a decibel when measuring sound is 20 micropascal sound pressure. Which is where he got the two hundred thousand atmospheres of sound pressure. (Which, by the way, is not sound. It's a series of shockwaves.)

[Cristo Meyers]

I...just...what...how...

I don't think the PENTAGON has that much security!

[The Random NPC]

Standard reference point for a decibel when measuring sound is 20 micropascal sound pressure. Which is where he got the two hundred thousand atmospheres of sound pressure. (Which, by the way, is not sound. It's a series of shockwaves.)

I was not aware of that, but I'm sure Trekkin knows what he's talking about. I just keep losing brian sells and I kneed to sav them whar I can.

[Trekkin]

Actually, you know what?

Not good enough. You've opened the door now, we need to all see what's on the other side. It's the only way.
It's already too late to save our sanity; it's too far to turn back.
We need to see what happened to Discworld.

It must be known.

Oh, I did THAT. I just meant I didn't tell the party anything about it like I was supposed to. Remember, my designated role as Scion was party Cassandra. I just didn't go run along to the rest of the party with all the bad news.

EDIT: And yes, thank you, Mando Knight. I had been meaning to clarify that. Obviously if we'd attempted to take advantage of it he would have changed it, but as it stands, I'm assuming he meant what is generally meant by decibels as relates to sound -- which means that, as we both noted, it's not sound anymore.

[BRC]

By contrast, the Pistol Shrimp (which is one of the coolest things on the planet) stuns/kills it's prey by snapping it's claw and producing a 218 Decible shockwave. Which, IIRC, you can do underwater, but not in air.

[Mando Knight]

Oh, I did THAT. I just meant I didn't tell the party anything about it like I was supposed to. Remember, my designated role as Scion was party Cassandra. I just didn't go run along to the rest of the party with all the bad news.

EDIT: And yes, thank you, Mando Knight. I had been meaning to clarify that. Obviously if we'd attempted to take advantage of it he would have changed it, but as it stands, I'm assuming he meant what is generally meant by decibels as relates to sound -- which means that, as we both noted, it's not sound anymore.

That's what the seismometers are for! You can hardly get any kind of resolution with any other kind of sensor when you're operating at those magnitudes! :smalltongue:

[Alejandro]

That's what the seismometers are for! You can hardly get any kind of resolution with any other kind of sensor when you're operating at those magnitudes! :smalltongue:

Our cruisers can't repel idiocy of that magnitude.

[The_Werebear]

I just read through the whole thing.


Wow. I was torn between laughing hysterically at the shenanigans, weeping on the players behalf, and thanking my lucky stars I've never played with a DM so horrible on so many levels.

I don't even know how you can recollect it without SAN damage.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't think he did. You've seen how cautious Trekkin is about revealing anything that anyone, including future employers and the United States government, could use to connect his offline identity with the stories told here. It's like some sort of reverse Stockholm Syndrome, where even the appearance of being associated with these events is believed to be so horrifying it could damage his reputation with complete strangers.

That seems a clear indication of lost SAN points, on top of what his school stripped away from him.

[Sith_Happens]

Oh, I did THAT. I just meant I didn't tell the party anything about it like I was supposed to. Remember, my designated role as Scion was party Cassandra. I just didn't go run along to the rest of the party with all the bad news.

In SUEthulhuTech, sure. In actual CTech (at least according to that SA Let's Read) your role as a Scion would be to know exactly what the party needs to do and think up the most opaque ways possible of nudging them into doing it. But Marty couldn't have that, now could he? It might have resulted in the party succeeding at something.

[Henry the 57th]

I just read the whole thing, and... wow. :smalleek:

But there's one thing I gotta know: how in all the infinite infernal hells did you manage to spend so long with this? :smallconfused:

You say that this was the only gaming group around. Fine, so why not throw Marty out? Get a new GM? Force him to play a different game? I mean, for God's sake, bashing your head on a wall for hours sounds like a much more fulfilling, less painful use of your time than going through this. What kind of twisted hellscape did you live in that made this sound like an even remotely acceptable use of leisure time?

[Arbane]

What kind of twisted hellscape did you live in that made this sound like an even remotely acceptable use of leisure time?

A really bad tech college, from the sound of it.

[The Glyphstone]

Miskatonic Tech, probably.

[Deffers]

Nah. Miskatonic is nice by comparison. They send star spawn at you if you say bad things about them-- they don't litigate.

[Mr Beer]

I always come away from these updates with an increased sense of distaste for Marty, he really is an awful person. On the other hand, I can see life being an endless series of disappointments for him, so I guess it will work out.

[The Fury]

Yeah, man. You can't leave things like operations or safety manuals lying around a volleyball net factory. If someone somehow broke in they could... make a volleyball net... :smallsigh:

I guess the no doubt staggering amount of workplace injuries is just the cost of doing business. But I guess CthuluTech is supposed to be a sort of crapsack dystopia, isn't it?

[georgie_leech]

Yeah... but most dystopia's get the name from having too many instruction manuals, not for lack thereof.

[Eldan]

I just love how little sense it makes. "They never sell any nets, no one wants them. But they spend more than hte factory will earn in a million years on security. Because they will make profit anyway, since they have a monopoly, which is good."

[Arkhosia]

I just love how little sense it makes. "They never sell any nets, no one wants them. But they spend more than hte factory will earn in a million years on security. Because they will make profit anyway, since they have a monopoly, which is good."

And we totally don't have monopolization laws, because that is obviously not needed and arbitrary

[Maugan Ra]

Yeah, if he had notes on this place already set up, it seems fair to assume they were for your generic 'high security facility' and he just switched them in rather than make stuff up completely on the fly.

Which is the smart thing to do, in some situations, to be fair. I know if I'm running Shadowrun, and my players have decided that they want to raid a particular set of corporate offices, it's much more time efficient and sensible for me to just pull out the generic 'corporate office' map and change some of the tags around than create an entire facility on the spot. Rewards the players for taking the initiative, and it keeps the game flowing at a reasonable speed.

Except, of course, you have to use the right sort of maps. It would be hideously unfair for me to pull out the 'AAA Megacorp blacklist research facility' map to model the local university's research wing, for example. Or at least that's what I've always assumed. Marty apparently thinks differently... but even then, I have to believe he's just repurposed a much higher grade facility for this scenario. Indeed, I was half expecting the reveal to be 'this actually IS a top secret research facility, it's just got a fake name on the business reports to throw off suspicion'. Except... nope, it's just a net-weaving machine. Which has tesla coils in it. Somehow.

The lack of instruction manuals is especially infuriating. My old radio teacher worked in the command bunkers during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and he specifically noted that the bloody Nuclear launch system had handy instruction manuals located nearby. Granted, standard policy was to destroy them if by some unexpected circumstance the base was compromised, but still, they had them.

[Sir_Mopalot]

Perhaps there's so much security because the net-making machine is arguably a weapon of mass destruction, given both the pressure-wave generator and the fact that it's made of LASERS AND TESLA COILS reinforcing this.

god help me my Clarity is slipping I can't helpmyselfpleasesomeoneendme

[Kish]

The description of the way he freaked out when you could prove to him that he'd contradicted himself almost makes me feel sorry for him. Almost.

(Then I remember what he said in Jin Down, and any possibility of feeling a trace of sympathy for him vanishes.)

[Cristo Meyers]

Perhaps there's so much security because the net-making machine is arguably a weapon of mass destruction, given both the pressure-wave generator and the fact that it's made of LASERS AND TESLA COILS reinforcing this.


Now imagine the kind of machinery used to create the volleyballs...

[Mx.Silver]

Now imagine the kind of machinery used to create the volleyballs...

I can't, I couldn't pass all the required knowledge rolls.

[Cristo Meyers]

I can't, I couldn't pass all the required knowledge rolls.

You actually got to roll? Wow. Even having an imagination is usually reserved for level 15...16...godhood.

[llehctim]

I just read the whole thing, and... wow. :smalleek:

But there's one thing I gotta know: how in all the infinite infernal hells did you manage to spend so long with this? :smallconfused:

You say that this was the only gaming group around. Fine, so why not throw Marty out? Get a new GM? Force him to play a different game? I mean, for God's sake, bashing your head on a wall for hours sounds like a much more fulfilling, less painful use of your time than going through this. What kind of twisted hellscape did you live in that made this sound like an even remotely acceptable use of leisure time?

DMing is very stressful when you are aware of the player's Scrutiny, and can take a while to get a good game idea. So while I had contemplated it, We had the issue of being unreliable at DMing since Trekking and I had courseloads that made GMing difficult and were worried about making mistakes. Also I am a conflict avoider (mostly) and try to find a way to resolve things without HUGE DRAMA!!11!!one.

[Mx.Silver]

You actually got to roll? Wow. Even having an imagination is usually reserved for level 15...16...godhood.

I'm able to replicate a lesser version of it with a spell, although I can't cast more than about once a day and if I try to sustain it for more than 20 second I may go into a coma. Using it instead of an actual imagination also gives my rolls a -2 stress penalty, a -4 untrained penalty, a -1 visualisation penalty, a -1 concentration penalty and a -1 shaping penalty. If I want the mental image to be in 3-dimensional, then it's another -2 penalty (and I have to make an additional 'knowledge: geometry' roll).

[stupiddDice]

Just thought of some thread titles, The SUE files III:

Knowledge (alphabet, English, literature, computers) checks required to read this thread.

You're not a high enough level to read this thread.

Where craft (basket weaving) requires break-ins, tesla coils, and can kill you

Science is wrong

droning at 300 decibels

Our sanity has gone the way of the dolphins and Antimony.

[The Glyphstone]

The SUE Files, Part III: Roll SAN To Continue

[Henry the 57th]

DMing is very stressful when you are aware of the player's Scrutiny, and can take a while to get a good game idea. So while I had contemplated it, We had the issue of being unreliable at DMing since Trekking and I had courseloads that made GMing difficult and were worried about making mistakes. Also I am a conflict avoider (mostly) and try to find a way to resolve things without HUGE DRAMA!!11!!one.

I've DM'd before (and made plenty of mistakes, sadly) and I know how stressful it can be. But I also know that a monkey on LSD could create a superior game than Marty's. Seriously, had you guys ever heard of a good game before this? I literally cannot comprehend willingly wasting precious leisure time playing something so mind-numbingly awful. My roleplaying group would stone me if I tried half of the stuff I'm reading about.

What made you guys keep coming back to this?

[Trekkin]

I've DM'd before (and made plenty of mistakes, sadly) and I know how stressful it can be. But I also know that a monkey on LSD could create a superior game than Marty's. Seriously, had you guys ever heard of a good game before this? I literally cannot comprehend willingly wasting precious leisure time playing something so mind-numbingly awful. My roleplaying group would stone me if I tried half of the stuff I'm reading about.

What made you guys keep coming back to this?

Everyone with a better game quit running it because of schoolwork, and no, we hadn't, but I'm saving those games for after SUETHULU.

Really, though, the larger answer is probably...this thread. Going to our school gives you an endless capacity for nonsense and a warped sense of normalcy; Marty was far from the worst person there, and certainly considerably humbler, kinder, and more sensible than the administration, so for a while we just thought of it as par for the course. Remember, I originally posted asking what I was doing wrong. By the time everyone here pointed out how anomalously bad it was, I had a reason to stick around and see it through, and so did the others.

[Henry the 57th]

Everyone with a better game quit running it because of schoolwork, and no, we hadn't, but I'm saving those games for after SUETHULU.

Really, though, the larger answer is probably...this thread. Going to our school gives you an endless capacity for nonsense and a warped sense of normalcy; Marty was far from the worst person there, and certainly considerably humbler, kinder, and more sensible than the administration, so for a while we just thought of it as par for the course. Remember, I originally posted asking what I was doing wrong. By the time everyone here pointed out how anomalously bad it was, I had a reason to stick around and see it through, and so did the others.

:smalleek: Mein Gott...

How the hell does anything so infested with megalomaniacal morons function as anything resembling a modern society? Are you secretly some kind of damned soul being punished in hell?

[Fable Wright]

:smalleek: Mein Gott...

How the hell does anything so infested with megalomaniacal morons function as anything resembling a modern society? Are you secretly some kind of damned soul being punished in hell?

It doesn't. Read the second half of this (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/06/sort-of-sue-local-environment-variables.html) and tell me if it resembles a modern society.

[Trekkin]

:smalleek: Mein Gott...

How the hell does anything so infested with megalomaniacal morons function as anything resembling a modern society? Are you secretly some kind of damned soul being punished in hell?

It does, if you see society like we do. The problem is one of declining funding mixed with a university president better at being accomplished than actually accomplishing anything, who insists on change for the sake of change until the alumni are alienated, the faculty are haunted and the students are bitterly cynical. The only thing stopping full-scale rioting is the knowledge that the only chance we have of a job that will get us out of debt is to graduate, and they have no compunction about finding a reason to expel anyone who so much as complains.

You can feel it, you know, on campus. There's this undercurrent of mutual hatred, like everyone's just waiting for you to show your human side so they know where to stick the knife. There's never enough of anything for any but the best, so you have everyone desperately insisting that they are, for whatever reason, the best -- and this is why clubs are self-congratulatory fiefdoms ruled by egomaniacs, including student government. The idea is that anything you want, you must take from someone else, because there is none for you, so get good at taking, starting with credit --and everyone else already is, especially the people pretending to be interested in you. Not many people have friends there.

EDIT: I still remember one of my freshman courses. "Look to your left. Look to your right. One in ten of you saw someone who deserves to be here."

Marty was safe. He was so self-absorbed he never tried to ruin us. That makes him a pretty good guy, by our standards.

[Arbane]

:smalleek:

....On the bright side, Trekkin is now perfectly prepared to run a game about Drow politics.

[Fable Wright]

It does, if you see society like we do. The problem is one of declining funding mixed with a university president better at being accomplished than actually accomplishing anything, who insists on change for the sake of change until the alumni are alienated, the faculty are haunted and the students are bitterly cynical. The only thing stopping full-scale rioting is the knowledge that the only chance we have of a job that will get us out of debt is to graduate, and they have no compunction about finding a reason to expel anyone who so much as complains.

You can feel it, you know, on campus. There's this undercurrent of mutual hatred, like everyone's just waiting for you to show your human side so they know where to stick the knife. There's never enough of anything for any but the best, so you have everyone desperately insisting that they are, for whatever reason, the best -- and this is why clubs are self-congratulatory fiefdoms ruled by egomaniacs, including student government. The idea is that anything you want, you must take from someone else, because there is none for you, so get good at taking, starting with credit --and everyone else already is, especially the people pretending to be interested in you. Not many people have friends there.

EDIT: I still remember one of my freshman courses. "Look to your left. Look to your right. One in ten of you saw someone who deserves to be here."

Marty was safe. He was so self-absorbed he never tried to ruin us. That makes him a pretty good guy, by our standards.

Sigging this for being a prime example of a Chaotic Evil society in real life.

Also, if Marty not trying to ruin you made him a good guy by your standards, what would that make yourself or Jin?

And why are there positive student reviews of the school?

[Mr Beer]

Marty was far from the worst person there, and certainly considerably humbler, kinder, and more sensible than the administration, so for a while we just thought of it as par for the course. Remember, I originally posted asking what I was doing wrong. By the time everyone here pointed out how anomalously bad it was, I had a reason to stick around and see it through, and so did the others.

I didn't think I'd ever hear anyone describe a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome relating to an RPG campaign, so you know...every day is a school day I guess.

[neriana]

DMing is very stressful when you are aware of the player's Scrutiny, and can take a while to get a good game idea. So while I had contemplated it, We had the issue of being unreliable at DMing since Trekking and I had courseloads that made GMing difficult and were worried about making mistakes. Also I am a conflict avoider (mostly) and try to find a way to resolve things without HUGE DRAMA!!11!!one.

The man thinks women get penalties to their wisdom when their boobs are damaged. This is not about DMing being stressful. This is a bad person.

[Sith_Happens]

And why are there positive student reviews of the school?

Spite, maybe?

[Icewraith]

Trekkin seems to think that the school will track him down and lawsuit him if he actually says on the internet which school he attended as well as how miserable he was there/it is.

[Lord Raziere]

Spite, maybe?

or perhaps schadenfreude?

[Mx.Silver]

The man thinks women get penalties to their wisdom when their boobs are damaged.

It takes a special kind of person to decide that, in a world where mastectomies aren't uncommon, women are so defined by their breasts that injury sustained there would inflict permanent mental damage. I mean the charisma penalty - because of course there was a charisma penalty - is basic garden-variety misogyny, but that was taking it to a new level.

[Axinian]

Basically, The Sue Files Part 3

[Deffers]

The tragic part is that, under those conditions, Marty IS good people. Anybody who wouldn't stab you in the back or use you in some way is good people.


The fact that there are places in the world that train people to become like that frightens me mightily. The fact that one of the few ways out of becoming like that is to be already so self-absorbed you don't bother seeing others as a threat is, frankly, existentially... like... ugh.

I admit I'm curious as to what DMofDarkness was asking, though. If Marty's good by your standards, what're you and Jin by your standards? :smallbiggrin:

[Trekkin]

I admit I'm curious as to what DMofDarkness was asking, though. If Marty's good by your standards, what're you and Jin by your standards? :smallbiggrin:

Not a threat, and that was it. Everything else was kind of subservient to "will I regret this person knowing who I am?"

And Deffers, the scary thing to me was how many people came already like that and prospered therein.

[Fecar]

I just love how little sense it makes. "They never sell any nets, no one wants them. But they spend more than hte factory will earn in a million years on security. Because they will make profit anyway, since they have a monopoly, which is good."

You forgot to include: "You are very lucky to even find a volleyball net factory as no one ever plays it anymore since baseball* is the superior sport."

*baseball selected as I recall it being popular in Japan.

[Arkhosia]

You forgot to include: "You are very lucky to even find a volleyball net factory as no one ever plays it anymore since baseball* is the superior sport."

*baseball selected as I recall it being popular in Japan.

Oh god! He's that fat guy in the black shirt from Shortpacked!.
:smalleek:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Why the hell didn't you transfer out and try to flee that hellhole? That's just...I'm just sitting here thanking God that my school's reputation as a pressure cooker actually resulted in the administration offering a fairly comprehensive mental health service, and that the worst thing I've encountered here is the cluster**** of student housing--and that isn't even entirely the administration's fault!

[Big Fau]

Why the hell didn't you transfer out and try to flee that hellhole? That's just...I'm just sitting here thanking God that my school's reputation as a pressure cooker actually resulted in the administration offering a fairly comprehensive mental health service, and that the worst thing I've encountered here is the cluster**** of student housing--and that isn't even entirely the administration's fault!

Off topic: Your user name is oddly appropriate for this thread...

[The Glyphstone]

Why the hell didn't you transfer out and try to flee that hellhole? That's just...I'm just sitting here thanking God that my school's reputation as a pressure cooker actually resulted in the administration offering a fairly comprehensive mental health service, and that the worst thing I've encountered here is the cluster**** of student housing--and that isn't even entirely the administration's fault!

Transferring usually involves the administration, at least as far as keeping your transcript goes. Somehow I doubt Trekkin's school was any more competent in that department than any other one, so he would have been stuck as firmly as Dante's sinners.

How they got enough influx of money to stay open with this level of dysfunction is beyond me.

[Malrone]

How they got enough influx of money to stay open with this level of dysfunction is beyond me.

I'm going to guess that the families of the "legacy students" kept the school funded so that their children could continue whatever malign traditions their lineage obligated them to.

[Alejandro]

Transferring usually involves the administration, at least as far as keeping your transcript goes. Somehow I doubt Trekkin's school was any more competent in that department than any other one, so he would have been stuck as firmly as Dante's sinners.

How they got enough influx of money to stay open with this level of dysfunction is beyond me.

Well, in complete fairness to Trekkin, since we don't actually know the name of the school, we're only relying on his opinions and statements. It might actually be a good school, or it might not; we don't have objective data.

[Trekkin]

Well, in complete fairness to Trekkin, since we don't actually know the name of the school, we're only relying on his opinions and statements. It might actually be a good school, or it might not; we don't have objective data.

A very good point; anonymity is inconvenient sometimes. The only corroborating evidence I can offer comes from llehctim, who may be just as biased, for all the objective data we can offer.

Ultimately, the only way to positively convince anyone of my honesty is to open myself to charges of libel, so I'm sorry.

[Icewraith]

The statement must be false, cause harm, and be made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement in order to be proved libel.

Considering you were demonstrably miserable there (true statement), people complain about everything on the internet (no harm), and you were a student at the school (adequate research), you should be fine. This sort of criticism is protected speech. :)

[CoffeeIncluded]

A very good point; anonymity is inconvenient sometimes. The only corroborating evidence I can offer comes from llehctim, who may be just as biased, for all the objective data we can offer.

Ultimately, the only way to positively convince anyone of my honesty is to open myself to charges of libel, so I'm sorry.

The school would seriously do that for expressing your opinion and offering a review? That honestly doesn't make any sense.

[Deffers]

Guys, Trekkin lived in what is according to him essentially a drow city in the Underdark but with homework. Absurd paranoia is entirely... surd? Screw it, that's a word now, meaning unabsurd.

It's not so much that his fear is justified-- none of us have any way of telling. It's that if that's what you'd gone through for a nice chunk of your life so far, it'll leave its mark.

[Alejandro]

Please note, Trekkin, I'm not saying you are wrong or saying you should apologize for anything :) I was only pointing out an observation; someone can critique anything they want to, and if the target of the critique is never specified, then there's no way to objectively know.

That said, my opinion of you and your writings is high, so I'd be inclined to believe you. :)

[Alejandro]

The school would seriously do that for expressing your opinion and offering a review? That honestly doesn't make any sense.

Agreed. The school can do absolutely zip to you until you start making statements they can prove are entirely false and meant to cause them harm, like 'the school actively employs known child molesters' or 'our dorms caught fire all the time and the school didn't care.'

Saying that their service or staff or whatever sucked, in your opinion, and providing facts and observations to back up your opinion, is not libel.

[Trekkin]

Please note, Trekkin, I'm not saying you are wrong or saying you should apologize for anything :) I was only pointing out an observation; someone can critique anything they want to, and if the target of the critique is never specified, then there's no way to objectively know.

That said, my opinion of you and your writings is high, so I'd be inclined to believe you. :)

Oh, I wasn't taking offense. I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly; it'd be ideologically inconsistent for me not to want everything I say taken with a grain of salt.

[The Glyphstone]

Also, please remember to avoid giving legal advice. Just sayin'.

[Alejandro]

Ack. You are right, G, I am sorry.

Instead, I would like to suggest that a fish tank with an Admiral Ackbar bust in it would be awesome.

[Leliel]

Going away from Dark Eldar Tech and back to the post...

Auditors. Of. Reality.

Auditors.

You know, this actually explains why reality is so whacked-the Auditors found the Authyr-Sue, recognized his potential, and are now executing a plan to tidy up the local multiverse once and for all.

Death was occupied for the time period the game took place in, so his inevitable saving of the everything has been delayed.

And I will keep to this narrative as my SAN armor. YOU CAN'T MAKE ME TAKE IT OFF!

[Deffers]

On the other hand...

...A multiversal team-up of the greatest heroes in existence, called together by the Death of the Disc to take this guy down, DOES kind of have a total badass Avengers feel...

At some point, somebody needs to write a campaign titled "The other side of the coin" where people choose the baddest dudes to try and take down Marty. That can't NOT be dope as hell.

EDIT: The campaign would have to run on pure spiral power and SCIENCE! to be truly the opposite to what happened over the course of the SUE Files.

[Forrestfire]

Thinking of how to stat Marty, he'd probably be something with a planar-shepherd-like bubble that enforced his version of reality around him.

[Arkhosia]

Elder red dragon with a boatload of far realm power templates

[Arbane]

Thinking of how to stat Marty, he'd probably be something with a planar-shepherd-like bubble that enforced his version of reality around him.

He's probably one of those aggravating Puzzle Bosses who can only be beaten by a specific method.

In his case, either by forcing him to confront his own lameness (vanishes in a puff of logic) or by stabbing him through the heart with a Dale Earnhardt Memorial Katana. (A paradox he can't deal with, as it's simultaneously a Katana, yet lame.)

Which means that the CORRECT way to beat him is to say 'screw that!' and just use more Spiral Power. :smallbiggrin:

[Trekkin]

On the other hand...

...A multiversal team-up of the greatest heroes in existence, called together by the Death of the Disc to take this guy down, DOES kind of have a total badass Avengers feel...

At some point, somebody needs to write a campaign titled "The other side of the coin" where people choose the baddest dudes to try and take down Marty. That can't NOT be dope as hell.

EDIT: The campaign would have to run on pure spiral power and SCIENCE! to be truly the opposite to what happened over the course of the SUE Files.

I might be able to help with that...

[Deffers]

Ossum. I've been kind of thinking about what'll happen to the... the little SUE files community after the story is finished.

My solution? Make a better story out of this crappy story and publish it for free. It'd be fair use, after all. Write up a campaign, make it dope as hell, show 'em how it should REALLY go.

[The Fury]

Actually, Harris is gearing up to run a campaign where the bad guy is a Marty expy. That's really all I know about it for sure right now, though I don't think he'll be conquering realities or anything. I've chosen to play a cleric who has taken an oath of non-violence-- partially because I think that's a character concept that Marty would find really stupid.

[Arkhosia]

Actually, Harris is gearing up to run a campaign where the bad guy is a Marty expy. That's really all I know about it for sure right now, though I don't think he'll be conquering realities or anything. I've chosen to play a cleric who has taken an oath of non-violence-- partially because I think that's a character concept that Marty would find really stupid.

I'd join with a paladin of pelor (VampMarty preparation), but I'm bust enough with the RWBY FFRG...
Someone has to make a Paladin of Pelor with a vendetta against vampires and rebuke undead manifesting as Edward Cullen.

[Sith_Happens]

He's probably one of those aggravating Puzzle Bosses who can only be beaten by a specific method.

In his case, either by forcing him to confront his own lameness (vanishes in a puff of logic) or by stabbing him through the heart with a Dale Earnhardt Memorial Katana. (A paradox he can't deal with, as it's simultaneously a Katana, yet lame.)

Which means that the CORRECT way to beat him is to say 'screw that!' and just use more Spiral Power. :smallbiggrin:

So basically, you're saying the one who ultimately takes him down is Deadpool (via all of the above).

[Arkhosia]

So basically, you're saying the one who ultimately takes him down is Deadpool (via all of the above).

Deadpool: Marty's bane. Someone who takes nothing seriously!

[Mx.Silver]

I've been kind of thinking about what'll happen to the... the little SUE files community after the story is finished.
I'm okay with us going our separate ways, letting the moment fade back into the past. Perhaps when we catch site of each others handles, we shall recall the experience and for a brief moment a wistful smile shall grace our lips, as we think back on dolphins lost and genes working-out.


Of course, that's assuming we can pass the perception, eyesight, reading, knowledge (computers) knowledge (the internet) rolls. Otherwise we'll just be declared criminally insane and locked-up basically forever.



Or you lot could do your role-playing thing, whatever works for you.

[Deffers]

Eh, maybe. The main thing is that Marty provides such a deep and fascinating insight on what NOT to do at the table in terms of plot, in terms of world-building, in terms of homebrew, and as a DM that it... this is really a teachable moment.

It's special because of the fact that's been stated a million times-- Chief Circle's ideas could be good, if Chief Circle would just stop getting in the way of them. You see how a bunch of personality flaws and an inability to be wrong or lose control slowly turn possibly fun settings and ideas into a trainwreck so bad you can hardly believe it. In that sense we can help others avoid the same mistakes by keeping the community going.

Beyond that, peoples' creative gears just keep cranking on these concepts. They're oddly compelling!

[Mx.Silver]

I suppose. I mean, Speaking from a purely writing/narrative standpoint, I don't really see much beyond a trainwreck. There's plenty of ludicrous stuff to point at, mock and puzzle over, but there doesn't really seem to be much of actual worth in the plot and setting areas. Multiverse concepts aren't exactly rare, and it's not like Marty's brought anything new to the table (aside from his massive ego-trip and lack of any self-awareness). If you wanted to create something good you'd basically need to throw-out everything but the barest details and start afresh from there.

I imagine that for for role-players there's a fair bit more to it, but that isn't really my turf.

[Deffers]

Sure, it ain't winning any Pulitzers, plot-wise. I'll agree with you there. But a multiversal mashup would be a fun universe to romp around in-- under different conditions. The battles you could have! But beyond that, his system's only terrible in the sense of skill rolls. There were chances there to make an interesting game, mechanically.

Also the ideas that are good if taken in humor. Banning antimony, dolphins, a nuclear tennis netting machine...

[georgie_leech]

Also the ideas that are good if taken in humor. Banning antimony, dolphins, a nuclear tennis netting machine...

So basically Paranoia then. I could totally envision this world as a virtual reality simulation ran by Friend Computer after his media files got crossed.

[Trekkin]

For my two cents, I'm keeping the blog open after I get done with the story. And throwing up some other stories onto it -- mine, and others. Maybe branching out into system reviews and stuff, if people are interested in that. I never thought I'd like blogging so much, but it's more fun than I'd anticipated.

So whatever happens afterward, I'll keep ranting long after I should probably have stopped. :smalltongue:

[Deffers]

That's the spirit, dood! Hey, you ARE a good writer, sooo...

[Jornophelanthas]

He's probably one of those aggravating Puzzle Bosses who can only be beaten by a specific method.

More like a puzzle boss with every solution path carefully constructed to hit a dead end. So a specific method may SEEM the only way to defeat him, but in fact nothing will.

The only way to "defeat" such an encounter is to refuse the "challenge", laugh in his face (out of character) and leave. Basically.

[Honest Tiefling]

This campaign is the only thing that could ever make me feel sorry for an Auditor of Reality. Even they, as much as they wanted to kill the Hogfather, do not deserve this fate.

[georgie_leech]

I dunno. I could see it as a plot to have everything be so obtuse and ridiculous that no one notices when they start erasing stuff, saving the blind Marty for last.

[Honest Tiefling]

They would still have to be aware of his existence and know of what he does. Really, all they did was try to end existence, isn't that a bit harsh? Heck, I'm more surprised he didn't make their heads explode in rage considering how much he breaks the laws of the universe and then spits upon them.

[georgie_leech]

Hence the "plot" thing. I could see a group of suitably pragmatic auditors essentially using Marty as a tool to wipe out life and hope in every universe they come across, or at least make it easier to do so (and what he does to economy and government certainly makes it easier to do so). Less "Marty seems like an alright guy!" and more "He's doing our job better than we are, let's grit our teeth and humour him so he does all the work."

EDIT: I certainly think his flagrant disregard for the Laws of Physics would eventually force their hand, but it doesn't have to be now.

[Honest Tiefling]

I guess they have an equal sense of humanity and imagination.

[The_Werebear]

I guess they have an equal sense of humanity and imagination.

Somewhere, a massive amount of searing plasma just arced into Marty's obliviousness shields.

[Leliel]

I guess they have an equal sense of humanity and imagination.

Oh, don't be like that. The Auditors are nasty and all, but they at least are trying to do their jobs, however thankless it is. We should at least be grateful to them for making sure reality is coherent, attempting destruction of all life for the sake of personal convenience aside.

[Honest Tiefling]

They don't have a sense of humanity or imagination, that's not hyperbole. But they do have a purpose, which I guess is one up on Marty.

Maybe Marty Sue is just a very dumb Auditor?

"Why is that atom not spinning correctly?"

"This is superior!"

[graymagiker]

I think I found CC's website (not really, but it did remind me of this thread.)

What I imagine goes through CC's head when Trekkin asks about dolphins (http://somuchdamage.com/stuff/walls/dolphin.gif)

[Honest Tiefling]

That image, as awesome as it is, implies that a being (even if it is just a dolphin) is competent at something. I doubt that thought ever goes through Marty's mind.

[Lord Torath]

Now, now, let's be reasonable. Marty thought that a couple of Star Wars generals were competent. Thrawn, and someone else (sorry, haven't read any SW books other than Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and Phantom Menace, just to see if it was any better than the movie. Spoiler alert: It wasn't).

Select NPCs are allowed to be competent, but generally only if they wield katanas (Blackhawk?). :smallsigh:

[Arkhosia]

Now, now, let's be reasonable. Marty thought that a couple of Star Wars generals were competent. Thrawn, and someone else (sorry, haven't read any SW books other than Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and Phantom Menace, just to see if it was any better than the movie. Spoiler alert: It wasn't).

Select NPCs are allowed to be competent, but generally only if they wield katanas (Blackhawk?). :smallsigh:

You see, Katanas are enchanted with +9000 INT.

[Sith_Happens]

Marty thought that a couple of Star Wars generals were competent. Thrawn, and someone else (sorry, haven't read any SW books other than Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and Phantom Menace, just to see if it was any better than the movie. Spoiler alert: It wasn't).

Just Thrawn, actually. His other "chosen" general was Lelouch/Zero from Code Geass (who might not be the best choice to command spaceships in the first place, seeing as the battlefield tactics in his own series get rather wonky the more the z-axis comes into play).

[Big Fau]

You see, Katanas are enchanted with +9001 INT.

Fixed, for great justice.

[georgie_leech]

Just Thrawn, actually. His other "chosen" general was Lelouch/Zero from Code Geass (who might not be the best choice to command spaceships in the first place, seeing as the battlefield tactics in his own series get rather wonky the more the z-axis comes into play).

To be fair, said battlefields inevitably involved an arbitrarily advanced mecha that was functionally immune to everything he could throw at it, until he got creative. There was also the time where the enemy flagship was a massive invincible battle-station with at-will nukes, which he ultimately fared pretty well against.

No, Lelouch is a poor choice because he used tactics period, when CC/Marty's only allowed (as in, Lelouch isn't allowed to do anything else) "tactics" are to build a massive force of nothing but the biggest ships you have and charge en mass at the front lines.

[Sir_Mopalot]

Lelouch is also a poor choice because in terms of battlefield tactics, he has one trick. Get the enemy to bunch up, and then destroy them with the terrain. The most frustrating thing about that show to me was that nobody ever seems to really catch on to that.

[georgie_leech]

Lelouch is also a poor choice because in terms of battlefield tactics, he has one trick. Get the enemy to bunch up, and then destroy them with the terrain. The most frustrating thing about that show to me was that nobody ever seems to really catch on to that.

Depends on what your definition on using the terrain is. If it's including any use of terrain, then pretty much any display of tactics fall under that. If it's specific to using some natural element to directly destroy the enemy, I don't know that that really covers using guerilla tactics, or paralyzing troop movement by threatening city centers, or sabotaging fortifications, or using a burial mound to protect allies from wildly refracting lasers, or anticipating an enemy's trump card (but then failing to realise his counter didn't fully neutralise it)...

[Trekkin]

New post. (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/we-do-something-significant-part-3.html) My apologies if the editing is a bit wonky; I've been short on time.

[CoffeeIncluded]

That was just beautiful. And that was generous?!

[One Step Two]

Glorious, simply glorious, but utterly Insane.

I was watching an episode of M*A*S*H* earlier, CC reminds me of Frank Burns, from the belief in the whole "Great Man" bit, to his own over-inflated sense of self worth. The grin even reminds me of the moniker "Ferret Face."

All in all, you made use of the single greatest resource at your disposal, Marty's ignorance.

[jindra34]

Clubbing someone with a pistol is now an actual skill? And what exactly is it made out of to weigh 10 pounds?
And good for you for breaking Marty's grin.

[Segev]

Of course it was generous! They got what they needed by asking for 3x as much, and they only had to make single-digit numbers of rolls for any one thing to succeed! Also, the Lich died. If CC was not being incredibly generous, it would have basically ignored any damage CC hadn't planned for it to take. Probably any from a non-Tager source.

[Doc Kraken]

Cheese-encased explosives are the best explosives, especially when prefaced by a Henderson reference.

Out of curiosity, did Marty get the wee men joke?

...it also occurs to me that the Discworld may be having its subtle vengeance for Auditor abuse. I can absolutely see a cheese forge located somewhere in the Ramtops.

[Sir_Mopalot]

Depends on what your definition on using the terrain is. If it's including any use of terrain, then pretty much any display of tactics fall under that. If it's specific to using some natural element to directly destroy the enemy, I don't know that that really covers using guerilla tactics, or paralyzing troop movement by threatening city centers, or sabotaging fortifications, or using a burial mound to protect allies from wildly refracting lasers, or anticipating an enemy's trump card (but then failing to realise his counter didn't fully neutralise it)...

Spoilers for both R1 and R2 of Code Geass:
I'm referring to the fact that he

In episode... 2? Collapses the ground underneath Clovis' troops
In episode 10, he causes a landslide to take out Cornelia's troops.
A little bit less of a fit, but still, in episode 13 he blows up the JLF freighter as it's being boarded by Britannian troops, wiping them out.
In episode 23, he, wait for it, collapses the (walls? foundations?) of the Tokyo settlement, destroying a lot of the defending troops to further the Black Rebellion.
In episode 2 of R2, he drops Babel Tower on the current governor.

Unless I'm not mistaken, that's basically it as far as Lelouche's victories in the field with massed forces (as opposed to, say the final battles which are basically between a handful of Aces). Lelouche has plenty of strategic tricks, but very few tactical ones.

[The Glyphstone]

That was beautiful.

[MirddinEmris]

The SUE Files, Part III - Very Cheesy Forge

[Deffers]

Cheese crucibles. Vats of perpetually liquefied wax.

You remember how I was saying that this'd be a great gonzo campaign if not taken seriously? Like Fear and Loathing in the Multiverse? I mean... I can't believe he COULD take that seriously. This man is superhuman in his ability to have a stick up his ass.

[Cristo Meyers]

So a facility that makes volleyball nets has security that would make Ares Macrotech blush, but a place that apparently makes weapons-grade limburger cheese (I can't think of any other reason it would need protective equipment and metal molds) doesn't?

I just...cheese forge...it doesn't even make sense as someone just not knowing how cheese is made.

[Elricaltovilla]

Cheese crucibles. Vats of perpetually liquefied wax.

You remember how I was saying that this'd be a great gonzo campaign if not taken seriously? Like Fear and Loathing in the Multiverse? I mean... I can't believe he COULD take that seriously. This man is superhuman in his ability to have a stick his head up his ass.

Fixed that for you.

I've been lurking on this for a while and just wanted to say, I'm sorry you poor, poor fools. But good on you for finally beating Marty at his own game (i.e. baldfaced lying and making crap up to get what you want)

[Malrone]

My only comment, besides further lauding Henderson Blend Coffee, is to quote the response of a friend I was relating this story to-


No, no more SUEthor today. I'm so done.

He has reached the "my story being told overrides your characters' agency" point and then run it over, backed up, hit it again, and then done wheelies over it while shooting a magnum in the air one-handed

[johnbragg]

Rosencrantz and Guilderstern Are Dead...and are trying to dynamite the Gates of Hell and unleash the fury of the demons.

[The_Werebear]

Well..

Those were some *sunglasses* cheesy tactics.

[Alabenson]

The Sue Files, Part III: Blessed are the Cheesesmiths

Also, Old Man Henderson reference for the win :smallbiggrin:

[Fecar]

Well..

Those were some *sunglasses* cheesy tactics.

Carefull wearing those sunglasses around cheese, they might melt to your face.

[Arbane]

Behold, the Power of Cheese!

So much player ingenuity... wasted on this idiot GM.

I have to hope you guys find a GOOD game, soon.

(Cheese forges. This really IS the RPG equivalent of Dwarf Fortress.

In DF, you can't win, but you can lose in very elaborate ways. :smallbiggrin:)

[Mx.Silver]

I jump on the table and start pistol-whipping him.

You can't. You aren't proficient in pistol(club).
If I didn't know better I'd think CC was making fun of himself at this point.
Unfortunately, I know that's not the case.

New suggestion for part 3: 'Proficient in pistol(club)'.



Also, while I'm not exactly an expert on roleplaying games, I'd always assumed NPCs didn't get experience points. I suppose CC felt he needed to chance this if his product was to be superior.

[BRC]

If I didn't know better I'd think CC was making fun of himself at this point.
Unfortunately, I know that's not the case.

New suggestion for part 3: 'Proficient in pistol(club)'.



Also, while I'm not exactly an expert on roleplaying games, I'd always assumed NPCs didn't get experience points. I suppose CC felt he needed to chance this if his product was to be superior.

Well the general philosophy is that you get XP for acheiving things. Having NPC's helping you makes things less challenging, so you get less XP.

There is also the situation of a DMPC, where the DM is running a character like a normal PC, sharing in experience and treasure.

In this case either Marty is running all the Tagers as DMPC's (which is a whole other stupid issue), or he's just taking XP away out of spite.

Clearly his plan was for the PC's to be useless, then have the Tagers save the day.

[Fable Wright]

Suggestion for the title of part 3: Rotate through the various quotes people suggested whenever a new post comes up.

[Malrone]

Don't forget the overarching conspiracy to make sure the PCs stay at level 1.

[Big Fau]

Jesus, even when the party wins they lose. Marty's stupidity is matched only by his ruthlessness when it comes to running a game.

Does anyone else think he'd fail Monopoly this badly, or is it just me?

[The Glyphstone]

He would insist on being the banker and having the ability to take interest-free loans without needing to repay them, because all the money comes from the bank and goes to the bank, so it'll eventually pass through his hands at some point since it's basically his money, just in the hands of the bank at that particular moment. But only the most superior player gets the privilege of doing this.

[Honest Tiefling]

A part of me wants to know how he acts when he loses a game he is certain his 'superior' intellect would allow him to win. Does try to find a way to replace all of the players with AIs even for a boardgame?

[Kish]

Considering he plays computer strategy games only with the AI disabled, I doubt he plays boardgames he can't rig.

[Mx.Silver]

Don't forget the overarching conspiracy to make sure the PCs stay at level 1.

It's actually fairly simple: he just makes sure none of them are proficient in Levelling Up.

[BRC]

The PC's must make an Int check for each experience point in order to properly learn from an experience.

[Kish]

The SUE Files, Part III: The Cheese Forge.

[Deffers]

Yeah, I'm definitely leaning towards "we should commemorate the cheese foundry scene." I remember that from the original thread, and reading it again just makes my soul happy.

[Honest Tiefling]

The S.U.E. Files: 'Now make 12 Metalworking (Limburger) checks.'

[ReaderAt2046]

The SUE Files, Part III: The Cheese Forge.

I like this one, because it has the correct feel: something that sounds serious and interesting at first glance, but at second glance is clearly ridonkulous.

[Eldan]

This sounds like a few of the plans my Shadowrun group has attempted before.

[jindra34]

This sounds like a few of the plans my Shadowrun group has attempted before.
Comically this seems to be the opposite of every Shadowrun plan I'm a part of. Then again the Shadowrun games I've been apart of everyone agreed the best run was one nobody knew happened.

[Fable Wright]

Comically this seems to be the opposite of every Shadowrun plan I'm a part of. Then again the Shadowrun games I've been apart of everyone agreed the best run was one nobody knew happened.

Comically, what with the general competence of everyone in the Martyverse, this would fit your group's criteria of 'best run.'

[The Fury]

Clubbing someone with a pistol is now an actual skill? And what exactly is it made out of to weigh 10 pounds?
And good for you for breaking Marty's grin.

Earlier posts on how the netguns were made seem to imply that they fire some absurdly large, high-pressure round. Maybe they're meant to be used by folks in powered armor to shoot other folks in power armor?


Also-- I dunno, even though Marty almost certainly doesn't know how cheese is made I can sort of see what his thinking was:

"Cheese melts right? So basically to make cheese it's melted down and poured into molds."

Yeah, it's dumb but this is also the guy that can insist with a straight face that carbon dioxide is not soluble in water while holding a 1 liter bottle of Mountain Dew.

[Eldan]

Comically this seems to be the opposite of every Shadowrun plan I'm a part of. Then again the Shadowrun games I've been apart of everyone agreed the best run was one nobody knew happened.

I should explain. That DM read tons of Shadowrun books. He runs fourth edition, but he has books going back to first. But for some reason, he got the impression that Shadowrun should be run as "Action movies, but with, like, Vampires and Dragons!"

The typical mission usually consists of trying to get more money out of the Johnson during negotiations, followed by ten minutes of preparation, followed by five minutes of infiltration, followed by an hour of shooting mooks, a giant explosion and half an hour of car or helicopter chase (with shooting) to escape

Nobody ever seems to do things like track us or even just call the authorities on us, so we've mostly given up on stealth and opted for speed and brutality instead.

Yet it's still quite fun. I'm not even sure why, I massively prefer story and character driven games over action-based ones, usually. But the four or five times I've been with this group, we've just had a ton of absolutely silly fun.

[Trekkin]

Earlier posts on how the netguns were made seem to imply that they fire some absurdly large, high-pressure round. Maybe they're meant to be used by folks in powered armor to shoot other folks in power armor?


Oh wow. I cannot believe I forgot to mention this.

They're listed in the book as heavy pistols.

So Marty went with the meaning he understood.

[Segev]

Sometimes, Eldan, "silly fun" is all you really need. It sounds like your GM is running it exactly right.

[Segev]

Oh wow. I cannot believe I forgot to mention this.

They're listed in the book as heavy pistols.

So Marty went with the meaning he understood.

That means they basically fire TF2 Heavies as their ammo, right?

[Feddlefew]

That means they basically fire TF2 Heavies as their ammo, right?

I laughed so hard the cat jumped off my stomach, digging its claws into my tender flesh. Ow :smallbiggrin:

On another note, I second "The Cheese Foundry" as the next thread's subtitle.

[Sith_Happens]

The Sue Files, Part III: Blessed are the Cheesesmiths

Voting for this.:smallbiggrin:

Also, was that an Outlaw Star reference I saw?

[Arkhosia]

Voting for this.:smallbiggrin:

Also, was that an Outlaw Star reference I saw?

Seconded!!

[Deffers]

Oh wow. I cannot believe I forgot to mention this.

They're listed in the book as heavy pistols.

So Marty went with the meaning he understood.

Merciful heavens. This man...

[The Fury]

Also, was that an Outlaw Star reference I saw?

I reckon it was. I mean it had to be, right?

Also, yes. Cheese Foundry.

[Qwertystop]

Cheese Foundry, agreed.

[Trekkin]

Voting for this.:smallbiggrin:

Also, was that an Outlaw Star reference I saw?

Yep. Ian had a gun that fires spells. What else am I going to call it?

[The Fury]

Ian: "Jin, give me a Number Three!"

Jin: "We only got one of those bullets left!"

Ian: "Just give it to me!"

[Asmayus]

(lurk mode disengaged)

That was outstanding! My poor brain will never recover. Heavy pistols is just... oh wow. There aren't words.

Thank you for bringing us this tale. Long may it continue!

(lurk mode re-engaging in 3, 2, 1...)

[The Grue]

So a facility that makes volleyball nets has security that would make Ares Macrotech blush, but a place that apparently makes weapons-grade limburger cheese (I can't think of any other reason it would need protective equipment and metal molds) doesn't?

All limburger cheese is weapons-grade. I mean have you ever gone near the stuff? I'm pretty sure the reason my local supermarket doesn't carry any is so as not to contravene the articles of the Geneva convention.

[Feddlefew]

All limburger cheese is weapons-grade. I mean have you ever gone near the stuff? I'm pretty sure the reason my local supermarket doesn't carry any is so as not to contravene the articles of the Geneva convention.

Mine sells it in little air tight tubs. Pity the fool who opens one to check the cheese.

[Alabenson]

Seconded!!

I have to admit, while reading it I constantly had the image of this guy working at the foundry;
http://www.moneysavingqueen.com/images/cache/153c7e3a6e47986c7979e7c5e3ffec2b.jpeg

And to be honest, the whole "cheese foundry" thing didn't even phase me. As mind-bogglingly stupid as it was, it just doesn't stand out amid the existing background of Marty's Lovecraftian levels of stupid.

[johnbragg]

I'm reading today's post to my wife, who points out that it's a shame you didn't think of cheese forges beforehand. Imagine the fiber strength that cheesecloth would have to have in the Martyverse to handle the demands of cheese forging. You could have used that for the nets, and not had to inflitrate the Volleyball Net Factory at Cheyenne Mountain.

[Cristo Meyers]

All limburger cheese is weapons-grade. I mean have you ever gone near the stuff? I'm pretty sure the reason my local supermarket doesn't carry any is so as not to contravene the articles of the Geneva convention.

Ha! Good point.


I have to admit, while reading it I constantly had the image of this guy working at the foundry;
http://www.moneysavingqueen.com/images/cache/153c7e3a6e47986c7979e7c5e3ffec2b.jpeg

Now that's a laugh I needed after all this GTA5 crap I've been dealing with.:smallbiggrin:


And to be honest, the whole "cheese foundry" thing didn't even phase me. As mind-bogglingly stupid as it was, it just doesn't stand out amid the existing background of Marty's Lovecraftian levels of stupid.

True, but a lot of that isn't as easily condensed into a single phrase that just says everything you need to know: Cheese Foundry.

I mean, just saying makes people go "wait...what?" Even non-gamers are dumbfounded.

[Trekkin]

I'm reading today's post to my wife, who points out that it's a shame you didn't think of cheese forges beforehand. Imagine the fiber strength that cheesecloth would have to have in the Martyverse to handle the demands of cheese forging. You could have used that for the nets, and not had to inflitrate the Volleyball Net Factory at Cheyenne Mountain.

Well, yes, but we were still operating under the admittedly silly idea that things worked like they do in the real world. Besides, had we asked, cheesecloth would have been replaced by nanites.

It was like a perception-based grey goo scenario: as soon as we saw it, nanites.

I bet the dolphins were behind it.

[Mando Knight]

Bacteria were probably replaced by nanites as well. Since why would you rely on disgusting bacteria when nanites are clearly superior?

[Arkhosia]

Bacteria were probably replaced by nanites as well. Since why would you rely on disgusting bacteria when nanites are clearly superior?

Three words: Generator Rex EVOs

[Trekkin]

Bacteria were probably replaced by nanites as well. Since why would you rely on disgusting bacteria when nanites are clearly superior?

Well, yes.

There was a blanket ban on microbiology, because I'm part molecular biologist and Marty is easily confused. He absolutely forbade any use of my actual major, as far as I can recall; I'd been operating for the whole game on freshman science and Wikipedia.

In-universe, this was because of nanites. Or nanotech. It varied.

To be fair, that was probably a wise decision on his part.

[BRC]

I am now imagining the MaRPG.

When the game begins the GM randomly generates a massive list of totally illogical, and often contradictory, rules for the universe. These rules are then taken as gospel truth for the setting. The GM can invent further rules to shoot down the Player's ideas, but the game becomes the Player's figuring out how to use those rules to their advantage.

Example "Rules"
1: All [Insert Building Type here](Bait and Tackle shops) have obscene levels of security, with blast doors, infared cameras, automated gun turrets, electrified barbed wire, dna-coded locks, ect.
2:[Insert object here] (Bicycles) no longer exist.
3: The Villain has throughly infiltrated [insert branch of government here] (The Park Ranger Service), this branch of government is hyper-competant in every regard and every member is totally loyal to the Villain.
4:[Insert Object here] (Rubber Halloween Masks) are now considered extremely valuable, they are stored in secret warehouses and shipped in unmarked vehicles at irregular times along undeclared routes.
5: [Choose randomly from list: Ninjas, Pirates, Cyborgs, Wizards, Samurai, Vampires, Warlocks, Mafia Members, Androids, Martians, Mummies, Elves, Demons, Angels, Knights, late 18th-early 19th century naval officers, astronauts, Explorers, Mad Scientists, SWAT troopers, Special forces soldiers, Janitors, Monks (Shaolin), Monks (non-Shaolin), Monks (Catholic), Corporate Executives, Tax Collectors, Bounty Hunters, Marines (Space), Marines (other), Marines (late 18th-early 19th century), Australians, Wrestlers, Gymnasts, Clones of Benjamin Franklin, Doctors (MD), Doctors (PhD), Doctors (Honorary), Guitarists (Folk), Guitarists (Bass), Guitarists (Metal), Guitarists (Rock), Guitarists (Blues),People who share GM's profession, other] are unstoppable badass killing machines. The PC's cannot hope to defeat them in direct combat or otherwise triumph against them except in the most extreme circumstances or with amazing luck. Members of the selected group recieve a +20 bonus on all stats and as a rule hold considerable influence in government and society with NPC's deferring to them whenever possible.
6: [insert profession or field of study here] (Psychology) does not work according to any professional understanding. Instead it functions according to the worst/most oversimplified examples in popular culture.

If the Players come up with plans, roll to see if you create a new rule to stop it. The PC's must base their plans on existing rules to ensure success.

Using the examples above

In order to thwart the enemy's schemes, the PC's must infiltrate Yellowstone Park, doing so requires them to have Scary Halloween Masks in order to hide their faces. They find the home of the truck driver and look through his garbage, using that garbage plus their skill with Psychology to construct a perfect psychological profile of him, thus predicting exactly which route the truck will take.

Upon stealing the Scary Halloween Masks, the PC's set out to Yellowstone. However upon arriving they are told that the entire park is constantly patrolled by Late 18th-Early 19th Century Naval Officers who are impossible to sneak past. In order to blend in the PC's must break into a Bait and Tackle Shop and steal some fishing gear.

It should be noted that had they attempted to simply buy Fishing Gear, the GM would have rolled. The potential results include: Plan can proceed, Random Event (You have no money), New Rule (All Fishing Gear Purchases are monitored and controlled by the Park Ranger Service, who would know exactly what you are up to and send Late 18th-Early 19th century naval officers to stop you)

The more rules that come into play (Either for or against the players), the less the GM does to randomly mess things up.

[Qwertystop]

You know, that might actually be fun.

[Mx.Silver]

And to be honest, the whole "cheese foundry" thing didn't even phase me. As mind-bogglingly stupid as it was, it just doesn't stand out amid the existing background of Marty's Lovecraftian levels of stupid.

Gonna have to agree here. Also, this was one instance where it worked out in the player's favour which - while nice to commemorate - isn't really an accurate depiction of the Sueniverse.

[The Glyphstone]

So it's basically Mad Libs: The RPG?



EDIT: As far as threads go....howbout "SUE Files III: Behold The Power Of Cheese".

[Forrestfire]

... I would totally play that if the group all had the same "have fun in silly ways" goal in mind...

[Deffers]

Since we seem to have decided on cheese, I suggest "Basically, the superior cheese forge."

Those MaRPG rules sound fantastic. So much fun could be had with those!

[Icewraith]

The SUE Files, Part III: Posters are obsolete and have been replaced with superior, unhackable, top-secret nanites.

Alternatively:

You don't have that skill.

This thread is now the superior choice.

Try not to exercise your genes in public.

Over 9000 rolls to make a breadbox.

Most of the universe is banned, but we weaponized coffee and cheese.

[comicshorse]

Most of the universe is banned, but we weaponized coffee and cheese.

Love it :smallsmile:

[Fable Wright]

The SUE Files, Part 3: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes

[Deffers]

The SUE Files, Part 3: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes

OK, that's the best one. That right there. Best. Title.

[Qwertystop]

The SUE Files, Part 3: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes

Yeah, this is my new vote.

[Kish]

The SUE Files, Part 3: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes
Sounds good to me.

[The Grue]

Trekkin, how hard was it not to burst into laughter when you realized that you were dealing with a cheese forge?

[Forrestfire]

Most of the universe is banned, but we weaponized coffee and cheese.

I really like this one.

EDIT: The Cheese Genes one. That is amazing.

[Feddlefew]

The SUE Files, Part 3: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes

You win. :smallbiggrin:

[Sith_Happens]

The SUE Files, Part 3: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes

HELP ME I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING.

[TuggyNE]

The SUE Files, Part 3: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes

This this this!

Man, that's ridiculously awe(some|ful)!

[Trekkin]

Trekkin, how hard was it not to burst into laughter when you realized that you were dealing with a cheese forge?

Not that hard, sadly. By that point I was significantly sleep-deprived on top of being heavily caffeinated and stressed to hell and back, so he could have claimed armies of ninja pixies spin-kick the curds together and I would just have started trying to fling dhohanoids into it.

That's kind of the theme of the next few updates: "I'm not right in the head, therefore things get a bit weird."

EDIT: and it looks like we have a winner for the new thread title. Just in time, too.

[Arkhosia]

SECONDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Feddlefew]

I wonder how many new victims veiwers we'll get coming in just to see just what in the name of [censored!] the thread title means.

[Trekkin]

You know, after the session I did try to explain to him how cheese is actually made.

He didn't believe me.

Like with the tipjets, really -- although thankfully he never asked to see a free-body diagram.

He simply has a very strong aversion to believing anything I say.

[The Grue]

Did he actively disbelieve you, or did he just insist that the "real way" is stupid and obviously the cheese-forging method would produce a superior cheese in every meaningful way?

[Trekkin]

Did he actively disbelieve you, or did he just insist that the "real way" is stupid and obviously the cheese-forging method would produce a superior cheese in every meaningful way?

Active disbelief. "There must be more to it than that, otherwise why doesn't it just happen all the time? And why doesn't it become butter first?"

EDIT: There was also some confusion about how milk could be so full of lactose and yet cheese not be candy, I believe.

[Feddlefew]

Active disbelief. "There must be more to it than that, otherwise why doesn't it just happen all the time? And why doesn't it become butter first?"

EDIT: There was also some confusion about how milk could be so full of lactose and yet cheese not be candy, I believe.

The first two are pretty understandably, but explaining them would require imbuing him with some very basic knowlage of how biology works at the molecular scale. And we know how badly that would turn out.

For the curious:

1) You need an enzyme (traditionally extracted from calf or lamb's stomach) to get the process started. The bacteria responsible for the curding and aging process are everywhere, it's just a mater of making certain that only ones that will produce tasty, edible curds are in your starting culture.

2. The fat in the milk is kept suspended in microscopic droplets, which will eventually separate out of non-homogenized milk, by phospholipid membranes. If you take milk or creme and vigorously mix it for long enough, such as via butter churn or blender, the fat droplets start to merge to form bigger droplets. At some point a critical size is reacted, and then the fat starts to drop out of solution, and your milk turns into butter.

At no point in the cheese making process do you churn milk anywhere near enough to do that.


The third is not understandable. Hay probably has more sugars in it by mass than milk, and it's definitely not candy.

[TuggyNE]

The third is not understandable. Hay probably has more sugars in it by mass than milk, and it's definitely not candy.

Whatchu talkin' bout Willis, it's basically candy for horses.

[LordChaos13]

I thought sugar cubes and apples where candy for horses?

[TuggyNE]

I thought sugar cubes and apples where candy for horses?

Relevant and well-crafted linky (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontExplainTheJoke).

[Sir_Mopalot]

Perhaps he doesn't know the difference between lactose and sucrose or glucose? I mean, we are dealing with someone who thinks very little of banning an entire element. And also dolphins.

[Silverbit]

(Delurking)

Cheese forge. What. I'm guessing the molten cheese gets hammered on anvils made of "katanas, because basically they are the only objects capable of withstanding the cheese energy."

(Relurking)

[Eldan]

Cheese energy. Of course.

That must be what the Bistromath star destroyers run on.

[The Fury]

Active disbelief. "There must be more to it than that, otherwise why doesn't it just happen all the time? And why doesn't it become butter first?"

EDIT: There was also some confusion about how milk could be so full of lactose and yet cheese not be candy, I believe.

Butter, huh? I guess he doesn't know how that's made either.

[The_Werebear]

Active disbelief. "There must be more to it than that, otherwise why doesn't it just happen all the time? And why doesn't it become butter first?"

EDIT: There was also some confusion about how milk could be so full of lactose and yet cheese not be candy, I believe.

I ask this with some trepidation.

Why doesn't he just Wiki it if he doesn't know how something works? Sure, it's not going to give you an in-depth view, but it should at least give you a basic idea and some links from the citations for more details. Is he that afraid to be proved wrong, or does he avoid knowledge that clashes with his worldview?

[LordChaos13]

I ask this with some trepidation.

Why doesn't he just Wiki it if he doesn't know how something works? Sure, it's not going to give you an in-depth view, but it should at least give you a basic idea and some links from the citations for more details. Is he that afraid to be proved wrong, or does he avoid knowledge that clashes with his worldview?

Well basically wikipedia is wrong. Sure it might have some factual articles* but the vast majority is outright fabrications.

*the ones I reference of course, no others

[Alabenson]

I ask this with some trepidation.

Why doesn't he just Wiki it if he doesn't know how something works? Sure, it's not going to give you an in-depth view, but it should at least give you a basic idea and some links from the citations for more details. Is he that afraid to be proved wrong, or does he avoid knowledge that clashes with his worldview?

I already basically know how the process works, so why would I waste my time looking it up? Besides, everyone knows Wikipedia is basically useless because anyone can edit the pages, which is why no one uses it in CT anymore.

[neriana]

EDIT: There was also some confusion about how milk could be so full of lactose and yet cheese not be candy, I believe.

What does lactose have to do with candy? Does he think candy is made in forges too?



The first two are pretty understandably, but explaining them would require imbuing him with some very basic knowledge of how biology works at the molecular scale.

Not... really. One need not have a biology degree to make cheese :P.

[Feddlefew]

Not... really. One need not have a biology degree to make cheese :P.

I took it as a "why does that work that way?" question, not a "how do I X?"

[Mewtarthio]

But cheesemaking is something humans have done for thousands of years! You don't need access to the latest biology journals to find out how it works: You can literally just type "cheesemaking" into Google and get countless pages that all say "Here is how you can make some cheese right now." I can understand you not knowing how cheese is made if you've never had to know it before, but there's no excuse for not being able to find out how cheese is made!

[The Glyphstone]

But cheesemaking is something humans have done for thousands of years! You don't need access to the latest biology journals to find out how it works: You can literally just type "cheesemaking" into Google and get countless pages that all say "Here is how you can make some cheese right now." I can understand you not knowing how cheese is made if you've never had to know it before, but there's no excuse for not being able to find out how cheese is made!

This is a man with a supposed aeronautics engineering degree who didn't understand how lift works. Why does this surprise you?

[Trekkin]

I ask this with some trepidation.

Why doesn't he just Wiki it if he doesn't know how something works? Sure, it's not going to give you an in-depth view, but it should at least give you a basic idea and some links from the citations for more details. Is he that afraid to be proved wrong, or does he avoid knowledge that clashes with his worldview?

Both, and more. I can't get inside his head on this, but as far as I know, this is his 'thought' process:

1. If his players bring it up, they want something. Therefore they are biased.
2. Any source they cite is therefore in support of their bias, because why wouldn't they hide conflicting evidence?
3. Biased information cannot be trusted.

Therefore, anything the players show him cannot be trusted, especially if it diverges from what he professes to know -- since he has "evidence" to the contrary. This is a problem around me, because I love Wikipedia for reference during RPGs. It's close enough for my purposes and accessibly written.

Now, add to this a constant recourse to argument from authority where he defines authority as "professors whose works I have been forced to read by my professors." I humbly submit that the body of work by aeronautical engineers on cheesemaking is rather small.

EDIT: I think I just figured out the candy thing! It's from freshman bio -- at least if he had the professor for whom I TAed it is -- when he mentions lactose, glucose, etc. as sugars and then proceeds to talk about "sugars" as a whole, proceeding to describe how they're prone to crystallization and so forth, and he usually employs at least one candy metaphor.

Maybe.

[The_Werebear]

Both, and more. I can't get inside his head on this, but as far as I know, this is his 'thought' process:

1. If his players bring it up, they want something. Therefore they are biased.
2. Any source they cite is therefore in support of their bias, because why wouldn't they hide conflicting evidence?
3. Biased information cannot be trusted.

Therefore, anything the players show him cannot be trusted, especially if it diverges from what he professes to know -- since he has "evidence" to the contrary. This is a problem around me, because I love Wikipedia for reference during RPGs. It's close enough for my purposes and accessibly written.

Now, add to this a constant recourse to argument from authority where he defines authority as "professors whose works I have been forced to read by my professors." I humbly submit that the body of work by aeronautical engineers on cheesemaking is rather small.


Dear sweet fluffy Lord. This man is going to be an aeronautics engineer? Doesn't that depend on being willing to learn things and accept input from reality and others?

[Mando Knight]

Both, and more. I can't get inside his head on this, but as far as I know, this is his 'thought' process:

1. If his players bring it up, they want something. Therefore they are biased.
2. Any source they cite is therefore in support of their bias, because why wouldn't they hide conflicting evidence?
3. Biased information cannot be trusted.

Therefore, anything the players show him cannot be trusted, especially if it diverges from what he professes to know -- since he has "evidence" to the contrary. This is a problem around me, because I love Wikipedia for reference during RPGs. It's close enough for my purposes and accessibly written.

Now, add to this a constant recourse to argument from authority where he defines authority as "professors whose works I have been forced to read by my professors." I humbly submit that the body of work by aeronautical engineers on cheesemaking is rather small.
It would have been funny if you'd been using Wikipedia to work in Bernoulli's principle or the rocket equation... :smalltongue:

[Trekkin]

It would have been funny if you'd been using Wikipedia to work in Bernoulli's principle or the rocket equation... :smalltongue:

Which? Tsiolkovsky?
"That only applies to rockets in vacuum. Jet engines are much more efficient than that equation indicates."

Related: I tried to get him to build planes in Kerbal Space Program once. Everything exploded, and when he got to fly prebuilt planes the jet engines took up "unrealistic" amounts of fuel. "This is why rocket scientists shouldn't try to be aerospace engineers."

[BRC]

Which? Tsiolkovsky?
"That only applies to rockets in vacuum. Jet engines are much more efficient than that equation indicates."

Related: I tried to get him to build planes in Kerbal Space Program once. Everything exploded, and when he got to fly prebuilt planes the jet engines took up "unrealistic" amounts of fuel. "This is why rocket scientists shouldn't try to be aerospace engineers."

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but arn't Rocket Scientists Aerospace engineers?

I'm assuming that "Rocket Scientist" refers not to somebody who studies Rockets. Science is about learning how and why things happen and are. We built Rockets, they are as we built them and they happen as we built them to happen.

So a "Rocket Scientist" wouldn't be somebody studying Rockets. They would probably be somebody building and designing them.
They would be designing (or "Engineering") things designed to go through Air and Space.

That sounds like an Aerospace Engineer with a specialization in Rocketry.

[Mando Knight]

Which? Tsiolkovsky?
"That only applies to rockets in vacuum. Jet engines are much more efficient than that equation indicates."
Technically, not wrong. But it isn't fully true, either. The equation as commonly presented isn't in a general enough form to account for other forces (such as air resistance and gravity, though it can be modified to account for such), and jet engines aren't properly modeled at all with the rocket equation because most of the propellant mass isn't carried on the vehicle.

Related: I tried to get him to build planes in Kerbal Space Program once. Everything exploded, and when he got to fly prebuilt planes the jet engines took up "unrealistic" amounts of fuel.
Part of that problem is that KSP, last I checked, didn't have a realistic model for air resistance. Planes are very hard to play around with if you don't have a decent model for air.

"This is why rocket scientists shouldn't try to be aerospace engineers."
And that? They's fightin' words.

[Delta]

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but arn't Rocket Scientists Aerospace engineers?

You're trying to apply human logic to his thinking. That way lies madness and suffering.

[The Grue]

Have we ruled out the possibility that Marty was in fact not an aerospace engineer but a psych student, and was running an elaborate and lengthy experiment to see exactly how much bull**** a random cross-section of [University Name] students would put up with?

Because, while the above is far-fetched and hard to believe, so is the idea that someone would actually think cheese is made in foundry ladles.

[Mewtarthio]

Both, and more. I can't get inside his head on this, but as far as I know, this is his 'thought' process:

1. If his players bring it up, they want something. Therefore they are biased.
2. Any source they cite is therefore in support of their bias, because why wouldn't they hide conflicting evidence?
3. Biased information cannot be trusted.

Therefore, anything the players show him cannot be trusted, especially if it diverges from what he professes to know -- since he has "evidence" to the contrary.

To be honest, I think you're being too charitable. This presents him as someone who is merely paranoid and untrusting.

I think it's more like this:
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/911/jxe0.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/jxe0.png/)

[Doc Kraken]

EDIT: I think I just figured out the candy thing! It's from freshman bio -- at least if he had the professor for whom I TAed it is -- when he mentions lactose, glucose, etc. as sugars and then proceeds to talk about "sugars" as a whole, proceeding to describe how they're prone to crystallization and so forth, and he usually employs at least one candy metaphor.

Maybe.

Oh.

'Scuse me a moment. I think I need to lie down. For...quite some time.


Have we ruled out the possibility that Marty was in fact not an aerospace engineer but a psych student, and was running an elaborate and lengthy experiment to see exactly how much bull**** a random cross-section of [University Name] students would put up with?

Because, while the above is far-fetched and hard to believe, so is the idea that someone would actually think cheese is made in foundry ladles

This helps! I choose to believe this!

Please let me believe this....

[137beth]

But cheesemaking is something humans have done for thousands of years! You don't need access to the latest biology journals to find out how it works: You can literally just type "cheesemaking" into Google and get countless pages that all say "Here is how you can make some cheese right now." I can understand you not knowing how cheese is made if you've never had to know it before, but there's no excuse for not being able to find out how cheese is made!

I thought he said that he doesn't like the internet because it includes websites with people discussing different opinions?

[The Glyphstone]

I thought he said that he doesn't like the internet because it includes websites with people discussing different opinions?

Specifically, opinions other than his.

[Unseenmal]

OK I have read every page of both threads here and all of the blog posts. And let me say...

....
....
....
It doesn't...
That's not...
It can't possibly....
He's not figuring...
This makes...

OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW! OW!

This is such a huge, stinking pile of crap that I haven't got the words.

I understand his not knowing about a subject. That's just being a person. No one can possibly know everything about everything. But if you plan to put something into a game, do some research. It doesn't have to be your doctoral thesis...but read a quick wikipedia page or something.

I work in a datacenter with thousands of servers. I'm a server tech...that's my area of expertise. However, I do know how to change the oil of my car and do some other minor things. But I'd defer to my mechanic friend when it comes time to rebuild the transmission. I know basics...he's the expert. He'll ask me how to streamline his workshop computer system...and so on. We stick to what we know.

My question is this: Why is he SO against you, as players, *possibly* knowing more about a subject than him when he is SO VERY CLEARLY WRONG? Does no one call him on his bull****?

I just can't believe that he's gotten this far in life without someone stopping him dead in his tracks when he pulls stuff like this. But then he'd probably just talk louder and longer than them to drown them out.

This story is simultaneously one of the funniest and one of the most painful things I have ever read in my life. I genuinely feel bad for Chief if he thinks that's how the world works. I applaud you all for not stabbing him in the throat.

[Name_Here]

Honestly I always feel a little mortified reading these stories. Mostly cause I've gone dangerously close to being Marty.

NPCs who really have practically the exact same mannerisms.

Mysteries where I'm outright obstinant about giving out clues and still expecting the players to "figure it out"

Declaring that things "don't work" for reasons that are petty and not even a little explained.

Now I'm not as bad as Marty just... there but for the grace of god go I.

[Asmayus]

Honestly I always feel a little mortified reading these stories. Mostly cause I've gone dangerously close to being Marty.

NPCs who really have practically the exact same mannerisms.

Mysteries where I'm outright obstinant about giving out clues and still expecting the players to "figure it out"

Declaring that things "don't work" for reasons that are petty and not even a little explained.

Now I'm not as bad as Marty just... there but for the grace of god go I.

Dude, you've admitted to it, which puts you on a different plain to Marty. Breath. Exercise those lung-genes. It's all ok :P

[The Grue]

Dude, you've admitted to it, which puts you on a different plain to Marty. Breath. Exercise those lung-genes. It's all ok :P

Maybe have something to eat. Forge yourself a nice grilled cheese or something.

[comicshorse]

One of the joys of reading this Thread is seeing your faults ( and those of others you play with) blown up a thousandfold and taken to a self 0bsesses extreme, wothout actaully having to deal with them yourself
I recognise the weakness in my GM'ing of stopping PCs from having stuff in case it gets out of control and I have a firned who shares Marty's 'Of course I'm right and you're wrong' approach on occasion, though he doesn't preface his arguments with 'basically' but with 'it's just this simple'

[ReaderAt2046]

[QUOTE=Unseenmal;16108821]

My question is this: Why is he SO against you, as players, *possibly* knowing more about a subject than him when he is SO VERY CLEARLY WRONG? Does no one call him on his bull****?

[\QUOTE]

Because he believes that he is smarter than (or at least as smart as) every other entity that has ever existed or will ever exist. Therefore, it is, in his mind, a violation of the laws of physics for anyone to know more about anything than him, or think of any good idea he hasn't thought of. He literally uses nuclear weaponry in his games at the slightest hint of +Int nootropics, remember?

[Mr Beer]

Maybe have something to eat. Forge yourself a nice grilled cheese or something.

I LOL'd

Everyone should have a small cheese forge/griller in their kitchen

[Lord Raziere]

hello everyone, since its 50 pages, I have taken the liberty of posting up the third thread:

The SUE Files III: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16112819#post16112819)

[aleucard]

Alright, this particular thread is about to hit the maximum page limit. Just for grins, anyone want to speculate on what Circle Chief looks like (in his own mind, how he likely thinks Marty looks, and how both probably look)? I'm picturing a short, chunky, neckbeardy type with one of those mustaches that tries to be Captain Hook's but fails horribly. Marty probably would look like some unholy chimeric fusion of Edward from that fangirl masturbation aid known as Twilight, Bieber, FRED ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9MA0eW8yyw , don't watch for longer than a minute if you value your ears and your computer (you might want to put your fist through the monitor)), and Professor Snape, with more katana attached to his person than some teams have arms.

EDIT: If you don't want to give FRED views, joecartoon does a fairly faithful rendition of the obnoxious brat in this video here, with satisfying results. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp6jRrzczZo