Goblins XIII: Now With Goblins!

[Draconi Redfir]

Discussion of the Goblins Comic (http://www.goblinscomic.com/). We do it here.

Previous threads:

Goblins Thread 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53552)
Goblins I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91562)
Goblins II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119947)
GoblIIIns (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160611)
Goblins IV: Live Free or Die Horribly (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176739)
Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184044)
Goblins VI: How Many Fingers Am I Holding Up? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195334)
Goblins VII: I'm TOTALLY Gonna Pee On This Thing! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212057)
Goblins VIII: This Thread Contains An Unexpected Variable (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225970)
Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245780)
Goblins X: Orcs fall, everybody dies (horribly) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260383)
Goblins XI: There ARE Goblins In This Comic, Right? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281797)
Goblins XII: Your Home for Magical Limb Replacement (”http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302163”)

Current information on Axe Of Prissan wielders:
Wielders of the Axe of Prissan
Starting with the most recent

Big Ears - Male Goblin Paladin. One of the protagonists of the story and current wielder of the axe.
Saral Caine* - Evil Male Half Stone Giant/Half Human. Ally of Dellyn Goblinslayer and minor antagonist in the Brassmoon arc.
Dri Featherknife (http://imageshack.us/a/img15/5051/lvez.jpg) - Female Human Rogue/Paladin. She was killed by Goblinslayer and Saral Caine after uncovering their plot to frame the sherrif of Brassmoon for murder.
Flejj Hillmover - Male Dwarf. He fought Kore twice and survived. His family was not so lucky. He shaved his beard in shame.

----

Felsibeth "Soot" Blackbringer (http://imageshack.us/a/img15/8921/oo1e.jpg) - Young Female Human Paladin. Youngest to ever wield the axe.
Kelstride Blackbringer - Male Human Paladin. Soot's Father. Former chimney sweep. Killed by a Kobold stampede.
Drose (http://imageshack.us/a/img440/234/l0qu.jpg) - Genderless Golem Paladin. Drose passed the Axe to Kelstride Blackbringer to prevent the demon imprisoned within from taking control of his body.
Eled of the East - "Fat, over confident" Paladin. Was given the axe by Myorg.
Mryorg (http://imageshack.us/a/img600/2522/c6kb.jpg)* - Evil Male Ogre. Beat (but did not kill) Vilias Red in combat and took the Axe from her. Used it to cause great suffering before eventually giving it to Elad purely to make the demon contained within suffer after coming so close to freedom.
Vilias Red* (http://imageshack.us/a/img46/4160/8apn.jpg) - Female Human Rogue. Was friends with Tivoth Fastfoot and took the axe after Tivoth died in battle with the intention of giving it to another Paladin.
Tivoth Fastfoot - Male Paladin. Encountered Vilias Red looting a corpse and assumed she had murdered the man. Once he realized she was innocent, the two became friends and traveled together.

----

Kevitch Gritland* (http://imageshack.us/a/img853/1350/m797.jpg) - Evil Male... formerly... Human maybe... Fighter/Wizard. Horribly mutated by an evil swamp. Killed Eldrock Cloudcry and claimed the axe as his own.
Eldrock Cloudcry - Known in name only.

-----

Cal (http://imageshack.us/a/img36/9210/cu92.jpg) - Male Gnome Paladin. Egotistic gambler. Had a powerful, icy magic effect.
Jelbin Crae - Male Human Paladin. Gave Cal the Axe willingly. Nothing else is known.

*Confirmed non-Paladin

Individual Magic Effects (IME's)
One of the more frequent sources of confusion is what people are talking about when we're referring to IME's. Here is the comic's explaination of what they are (http://www.goblinscomic.com/08042006/). And now you know.


Shield of Wonder Effects List
Shield of Wonder page 1
http://imageshack.us/a/img594/7247/iwta.jpg

Shield of Wonder page 2
http://imageshack.us/a/img32/6251/qiol.jpg

Shield of Wonder page 3
http://imageshack.us/a/img594/5633/9lb7.jpg

Shield of Wonder page 4
http://imageshack.us/a/img35/9479/6i99.jpg

Shield of Wonder page 5
http://imageshack.us/a/img850/9456/lvg8.jpg

Shield of Wonder page 6
http://imageshack.us/a/img15/9746/e2qr.jpg

Shield of Wonder page 7
http://imageshack.us/a/img30/6444/92n2.jpg

Shield of Wonder page 8
http://imageshack.us/a/img35/2995/ic5y.jpg

Shield of Wonder page 9
http://imageshack.us/a/img850/3715/gnyy.jpg

[TheEmerged]

Duly noting the new thread.

[Hyena]

My suggestion was better.

[Draconi Redfir]

should have made the thread yourself then:smalltongue:

[BannedInSchool]

Yeah, this thread title is a total jinx. :smalltongue:

[Liliet]

Yay, the phrase I liked was chosen to be the title! ^^

[Kislath]

I just noticed that Forgath used Hold PERSON on Thac0 instead of Hold Monster. Is that accurate? Do goblins count as persons for that spell? It's been a long time since I played.

[John Cribati]

I just noticed that Forgath used Hold PERSON on Thac0 instead of Hold Monster. Is that accurate? Do goblins count as persons for that spell? It's been a long time since I played.

Hold Monster is the higher-leveled version that works on more things. Hold Person works on Humanoids (which goblins are) and Hold Monster works on everything that's alive.

[Liliet]

I just noticed that Forgath used Hold PERSON on Thac0 instead of Hold Monster. Is that accurate? Do goblins count as persons for that spell? It's been a long time since I played.

On a higher level of abstraction than the previous poster who actually knows the rules, who do you think Thaco is, a monster or a person? :smallbiggrin:

[Math_Mage]

On a higher level of abstraction than the previous poster who actually knows the rules, who do you think Thaco is, a monster or a person? :smallbiggrin:
...

Both?

[Liliet]

...

Both?Nooo! He's Good, he's not a monster!

Or, if not Good, at least Neutral with strong morals. Not a monster anyway.


Unless you count ALL living/unliving species as monsters, which does not make a lot of sense, really. The term does have a meaning, after all.

[SaintRidley]

Nooo! He's Good, he's not a monster!

Or, if not Good, at least Neutral with strong morals. Not a monster anyway.


Unless you count ALL living/unliving species as monsters, which does not make a lot of sense, really. The term does have a meaning, after all.

In D&D 3.5, everything that's alive (and several things that aren't) are monsters. Well, except for humans. They don't appear in any monster manual.

The term has a specific meaning in D&D. And alignment isn't part of that definition.

[Math_Mage]

Nooo! He's Good, he's not a monster!

Or, if not Good, at least Neutral with strong morals. Not a monster anyway.


Unless you count ALL living/unliving species as monsters, which does not make a lot of sense, really. The term does have a meaning, after all.
We are all in the Monster Manual somewhere, are we not? My entry lies between Elemental and Ethereal Filcher. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html)

[Killer Angel]

Mandatory salute to the new thread! :smallsmile:

[Liliet]

In D&D 3.5, everything that's alive (and several things that aren't) are monsters. Well, except for humans. They don't appear in any monster manual.

The term has a specific meaning in D&D. And alignment isn't part of that definition.


We are all in the Monster Manual somewhere, are we not? My entry lies between Elemental and Ethereal Filcher. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html)

I know! It doesn't suddenly start making sense, though.

[Marnath]

I know! It doesn't suddenly start making sense, though.

With regard to hold person vs hold monster(or the charm and dominate spells by the same names) what they really meant by monster is "hold non-Humanoid Type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType) living creature (except the ones who are immune, lol.)"

[Yuki Akuma]

"Hold Monster" is the name of the spell because "Hold Anything" sounds silly.

Whenever a spell says "Person" in the name, it means 'Humanoid type creatures'. Which goblins are.

[Starbuck_II]

"Hold Monster" is the name of the spell because "Hold Anything" sounds silly.

Whenever a spell says "Person" in the name, it means 'Humanoid type creatures'. Which goblins are.

Well, it can't be hold anything, it can't hold non-creatures. :smalltongue:

[Math_Mage]

I know! It doesn't suddenly start making sense, though.
Well, you're free to call it the Creature Manual and use the Hold Creature spell, but beyond that, I don't really know what to tell you. The usage is practically as old as D&D--it has acquired legitimacy, if not sensibility.

[Liliet]

With regard to hold person vs hold monster(or the charm and dominate spells by the same names) what they really meant by monster is "hold non-Humanoid Type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType) living creature (except the ones who are immune, lol.)"


"Hold Monster" is the name of the spell because "Hold Anything" sounds silly.

Whenever a spell says "Person" in the name, it means 'Humanoid type creatures'. Which goblins are.


Well, you're free to call it the Creature Manual and use the Hold Creature spell, but beyond that, I don't really know what to tell you. The usage is practically as old as D&D--it has acquired legitimacy, if not sensibility.

You are all so serious I might start thinking about using blue color in my posts. Although that's stupid.

I'm joking and at the same time expressing my opinion on Minmax-before-Kin's-birthday-style usage of the word "monster".

It's not like I don't know how and why it is used.

[Janus]

You are all so serious I might start thinking about using blue color in my posts. Although that's stupid.
Glad that I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

[Seerow]

Glad that I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

Sarcasm does not travel well on the internet. Poe's Law is in full effect at all times. We must use what tools are available to us to make our intentions more obvious.

It is better than </sarcasm>, smilies, and other such nonsense.

[Gift Jeraff]

Personally, I love it when people misinterpret someone's sarcasm as being serious.

[Dienekes]

Personally, I love it when people misinterpret someone's sarcasm as being serious.

Agreed, honestly that's half the fun of sarcasm.

[Janus]

I generally try to be a good enough writer to get my tone of voice across, as well as a good enough reader to recognize it (or at least determine sarcasm based on the overall context). Having to openly declare that I'm being sarcastic just makes me think of the Elcor race from Mass Effect, who speak entirely monotone and declared their tone with every sentence ("Coquettishly: Who's the big handsome jellyfish?").

Anyway, how 'bout them Goblins?
Am I the only one who takes issue with Big Ears's "being a paladin sucks but I'm doing it so no one else has to" mentality? I usually think of paladins ultimately enjoying the class in the long run ("virtue is its own reward").
...or am I totally misremembering Big Ears's whole spiel?

[Astral Avenger]

I thought that that was more his commentary on detect evil rather than the paladin class.

[LoneStarNorth]

Am I the only one who takes issue with Big Ears's "being a paladin sucks but I'm doing it so no one else has to" mentality? I usually think of paladins ultimately enjoying the class in the long run ("virtue is its own reward").
...or am I totally misremembering Big Ears's whole spiel?

BE wasn't complaining, he was responding to Chief's saying how sucky it must be.

I don't know about enjoying paladinhood per se, I'd figure most have a "somebody has to do it" attitude without necessarily being bitter.

[Janus]

Guess I think of it as complaining about the class since I mostly remember it ending with "Why would anyone want to be a paladin?" and "So nobody else has to."
I should probably look it up. Heck, an archive binge might be in order, given that people have repeatedly referred to a prophecy that I don't remember ever being in the comic.

When I say "enjoying" paladinhood, my main thought is a paladin taking pride/joy from the good s/he is doing. Warm fuzzies that come from helping others and whatnot.
Granted, that really depends on the setting and character.

[Starbuck_II]

Guess I think of it as complaining about the class since I mostly remember it ending with "Why would anyone want to be a paladin?" and "So nobody else has to."
I should probably look it up. Heck, an archive binge might be in order, given that people have repeatedly referred to a prophecy that I don't remember ever being in the comic.

When I say "enjoying" paladinhood, my main thought is a paladin taking pride/joy from the good s/he is doing. Warm fuzzies that come from helping others and whatnot.
Granted, that really depends on the setting and character.

The Paladin could be a masochist and help others because its hurts him. :smallbiggrin:

[Kornaki]

Chief was asking Big Ears how much it sucks to be a Tier 5 class. Why would you do it? Big Ears was responding that the DM needed one of them to be a paladin for the axe storyline, so he was going to take the hit and let the rest of them be better classes. Then Thaco picked monk, Fumbles picked suck and the whole plan went up in flames.

[Anteros]

Guess I think of it as complaining about the class since I mostly remember it ending with "Why would anyone want to be a paladin?" and "So nobody else has to."
I should probably look it up. Heck, an archive binge might be in order, given that people have repeatedly referred to a prophecy that I don't remember ever being in the comic.

When I say "enjoying" paladinhood, my main thought is a paladin taking pride/joy from the good s/he is doing. Warm fuzzies that come from helping others and whatnot.
Granted, that really depends on the setting and character.

I think you're forgetting the character's motivations. They didn't take class levels because they enjoy adventure or want power for its own sake. They took class levels so that they could protect their friends and family. Big Ears wants the power to fight and protect his people so no one else has to. That's noble. He wants to protect others, but it doesn't mean he relished the prospect of the violence necessary to do so.

[John Cribati]

I think you're forgetting the character's motivations. They didn't take class levels because they enjoy adventure or want power for its own sake. They took class levels so that they could protect their friends and family. Big Ears wants the power to fight and protect his people so no one else has to. That's noble. He wants to protect others, but it doesn't mean he relished the prospect of the violence necessary to do so.

Also Thac0 chose Monk because they can escape bonds, Complains chose Barbarian because he gets angry anywhere, and a Chief chose Cleric because he's already the guy whogets annoyed by everyone.

[FatJose]

People actually didn't get why Big Ears became a Paladin? Is this that sarcasm thing I keep hearing about?

[Draconi Redfir]

newsflash: Sometimes what does or doesn't work in game mechanics is not the case for story mechanics:smallwink:

[The Glyphstone]

Also Thac0 chose Monk because they can escape bonds, Complains chose Barbarian because he gets angry anywhere, and a Chief chose Cleric because he's already the guy whogets annoyed by everyone.

Didn't the rest of the party choose Barbarian for Complains? He didn't agree with it at first.

[Traab]

He mainly tried to argue that he doesnt get angry all the time. :smalltongue:

[Liliet]

Glad that I'm not the only one who thinks that way.
Problem with it is, serious things can be expressed in a joking way, so you really need your own detector to understand what the person was _trying_ to say. I wasn't just screwing with everybody when asking what they thought Thaco was, I was ALSO expressing my opinion on a very relevant and serious problem.

It's not an on/off switch "serious/joking". If it is, you fail at humor.



I generally try to be a good enough writer to get my tone of voice across, as well as a good enough reader to recognize it (or at least determine sarcasm based on the overall context). Having to openly declare that I'm being sarcastic just makes me think of the Elcor race from Mass Effect, who speak entirely monotone and declared their tone with every sentence ("Coquettishly: Who's the big handsome jellyfish?").

Anyway, how 'bout them Goblins?
Am I the only one who takes issue with Big Ears's "being a paladin sucks but I'm doing it so no one else has to" mentality? I usually think of paladins ultimately enjoying the class in the long run ("virtue is its own reward").
...or am I totally misremembering Big Ears's whole spiel?
There's a lot to be said about how exactly the virtue is its own reward, but if you struggle to be Good and a proper paladin because it's physically pleasant, there's something intristically wrong with the idea.

Big Ears is glad to be a paladin, because it helps him save people around him. The satisfaction and pleasure he gets from the results of using his abilities are more than the pain he gets from the process of using them. THAT'S his reward, and that's also the reason very few people are paladins.

In other words, I really like the Goblins' take on the class. Except I still don't understand what's wrong with Kore.

[BannedInSchool]

In other words, I really like the Goblins' take on the class. Except I still don't understand what's wrong with Kore.
His desire for the Axe may not be coincidental. Maybe he's trying to eliminate all evil from the world so that the Axe *can't* fall into evil hands and release the demon, destroying the world. The Axe does agree he's really a Paladin too.

[Liliet]

His desire for the Axe may not be coincidental. Maybe he's trying to eliminate all evil from the world so that the Axe *can't* fall into evil hands and release the demon, destroying the world. The Axe does agree he's really a Paladin too.

No, that wasn't the question. WHY THE HELL IS KORE RECOGNISED AS A PALADIN?!?!?!?!?! These are supposed to be Good, and even by the most racist-stick-in-the-mud generous interpretation TORTURE IS EVIL. Paladins. Fall. From. One. Evil. Deed. WHAT THE HELL!!!!

Sorry about getting a bit too emotional, there. I kinda suspect that the actual plot of the comic is finding out what the hell is wrong with Kore and fixing it, so it's excusable for me to care about it that much? Right? Right?

[Hyena]

The world in Goblin setting is blatantly evil biased and clearly malevolent. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that so called "Good" is only kind of evil that gives you hope for the sole reason of twisting the knife when the world breaks your face with it's boot.
Kinda like in Spawn.

[FatJose]

I'm under the impression Kore is feared by everyone, not just monsters.

[Anteros]

I'm under the impression Kore is feared by everyone, not just monsters.

Well, he has at least decent relations with that clan of Dwarves whose child he murdered. At least according to Kore.

I don't really view him as that disimilar to Daelyn. He's probably revered for his work in more "civilized" areas.

[Draconi Redfir]

we'll see when forgath and minmax notice him i guess, if they're aware of him they might see himas a hero. Keep in mind that asside from the one dwrf child, we've only seen Kore interact with monsters after all.

as for the Axe, i don't think the axe has any form of intelligence around it barring that of the demon it's imprisoning. it can't look at a paladin and judge him based on what he's done in the past, as it can't judge at all nor read the past. Kore is a dwarf with the paladin class, the Axe is designed to not harm people with the paladin class, so the Axe does not harm Kore, plain and simple.

Granted we aren't sure how Kore is retaining his paladin class, but that's kind of a big-ish plot point anyways, not just a hand-waved thing we could legit complain about.

[Starbuck_II]

we'll see when forgath and minmax notice him i guess, if they're aware of him they might see himas a hero. Keep in mind that asside from the one dwrf child, we've only seen Kore interact with monsters after all.

as for the Axe, i don't think the axe has any form of intelligence around it barring that of the demon it's imprisoning. it can't look at a paladin and judge him based on what he's done in the past, as it can't judge at all nor read the past. Kore is a dwarf with the paladin class, the Axe is designed to not harm people with the paladin class, so the Axe does not harm Kore, plain and simple.

Granted we aren't sure how Kore is retaining his paladin class, but that's kind of a big-ish plot point anyways, not just a hand-waved thing we could legit complain about.

Maybe it doesn't harm ex-paladins either? I mean, it doesn't say current paladins.

[Draconi Redfir]

he used lay on hands, he's still a paladin.

keep in mind that the plot point is "how can he do crazy most likely evil things and still be a paladin", not "how does he have paladin-like abilities"

[BaronOfHell]

After the Altsplanation telling how the Demon got freed in the goblin ruled world, and destroyed by those same goblins, to me it kinda lost a lot of threat factor.

On the positive side it does show the Demon can be defeated, so I'm inclined to think the Demon will be released from the axe eventually, to finally be defeated by our heroes.

[BannedInSchool]

On the positive side it does show the Demon can be defeated, so I'm inclined to think the Demon will be released from the axe eventually, to finally be defeated by our heroes.
In the year 2525. :smalltongue:

[BaronOfHell]

In the year 2525. :smalltongue:

It's funny to think that the plot of stories like Goblins & OotS are more or less completed, if I understood correctly, whereas the actual drawing can drag the story out for years.

Maybe in 2015 it'll suddenly be possible to create clear images of your thoughts on the computer, and *boom!* acceleration. :smalltongue:

[Radar]

In the year 2525. :smalltongue:
If man is still alive. :smalltongue:
(if I got the reference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic) right)

[Adaon Nightwind]

Maybe in 2015 it'll suddenly be possible to create clear images of your thoughts on the computer, and *boom!* acceleration.

...ouch. It honors you that you think of the positive benefits, of the people who would bring good thinks to all with this technology. But my first thought was: I honestly do not want to see what the average internet troll is thinking.


BTT: Kore is approaching, and MM and Forgath are fighting the goblins, keeping them from escaping. Is there any way the GAP can be saved without a major outside interference?

[BannedInSchool]

Maybe in 2015 it'll suddenly be possible to create clear images of your thoughts on the computer, and *boom!* acceleration. :smalltongue:
Or THunt can make digital copies of himself. One can just post on twitter, another answer angry emails, another make blog posts, and a quartet for penciling, tracing, coloring, and shading the comic.


If man is still alive. :smalltongue:
(if I got the reference (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic) right)
I was just pulling a year out of the air and that song is from where I picked that phrase, but there's no other significance. Cleopatra 2525 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_2525) is how I'm familiar with the song, though. :smallsmile:

[t209]

What is that demon behind Forgath and Minmax?

[BannedInSchool]

What is that demon behind Forgath and Minmax?
The Dragon's Maw Dungeon entrance, you mean? :smallconfused:

[Liliet]

The world in Goblin setting is blatantly evil biased and clearly malevolent. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that so called "Good" is only kind of evil that gives you hope for the sole reason of twisting the knife when the world breaks your face with it's boot.
Kinda like in Spawn.

I doubt it. Kin did say that Evil was winning, but it implied that Good was still an opponent.

Also, this world has paladins like Big Ears. 'Nuff said.

[TheSummoner]

No, that wasn't the question. WHY THE HELL IS KORE RECOGNISED AS A PALADIN?!?!?!?!?! These are supposed to be Good, and even by the most racist-stick-in-the-mud generous interpretation TORTURE IS EVIL. Paladins. Fall. From. One. Evil. Deed. WHAT THE HELL!!!!

Maybe it just works differently in this universe.

Personally I've always found the concept of objective forces of good and evil incredibly stupid. I've found it even dumber that this objective force of good (not even a god, just some objective goodness in the universe) grants a paladin his power power and knows to revoke it should the paladin do something evil. Just a personal gripe, but the possibility is there that Thunt has an idea that he likes better for where paladin powers come from.

Maybe in this universe the powers come from a god... And Kore's just happens to be of the incredibly zealous variety. Alternatively, it could be based on the force of the paladin's own convictions. Kore believes what he is doing is both right and necessary and feels no remorse for his actions. Because he believes his actions serve the greater good, he does not fall for them. Just a few ideas.

Kore remaining a paladin is only problematic if you accept the default D&D explanation for where his powers come from. If you're willing to throw that out (even if just for Kore and not for the Goblins universe as a whole) then plenty of possibilities open up.

[Liliet]

Maybe it just works differently in this universe.

Personally I've always found the concept of objective forces of good and evil incredibly stupid. I've found it even dumber that this objective force of good (not even a god, just some objective goodness in the universe) grants a paladin his power power and knows to revoke it should the paladin do something evil. Just a personal gripe, but the possibility is there that Thunt has an idea that he likes better for where paladin powers come from.

Maybe in this universe the powers come from a god... And Kore's just happens to be of the incredibly zealous variety. Alternatively, it could be based on the force of the paladin's own convictions. Kore believes what he is doing is both right and necessary and feels no remorse for his actions. Because he believes his actions serve the greater good, he does not fall for them. Just a few ideas.

Kore remaining a paladin is only problematic if you accept the default D&D explanation for where his powers come from. If you're willing to throw that out (even if just for Kore and not for the Goblins universe as a whole) then plenty of possibilities open up.

But I like the default DnD explanation of there being objective, personality-less forces that judge and are independent of gods who are, in turn, persons and often pretty subjective )=

Not that me liking or disliking something has anything to do with what's really going on in the comic, but so long as it's not known I prefer the theory that something's seriously messed up with Kore and he's the special exception.

[BaronOfHell]

Regarding Kore's explanation, I personally don't want to get my hopes up too high. I'm not confident in Thunt to trust him to awe me on rules in a game he's been criticized for how he applies before and I hardly knows anyway.

As such, whatever the reason will be is what it will be.

[Traab]

Last second bets people. Will this comic have them spot Kore before its too late? Or will their only warning be a last panel of several crossbow bolts shooting at them? Seriously, this is huge. Waiting to see what the general nongoblin reactions will be. How will minmax and forgath react to kore? How will kore react to them? I honestly get the feeling forgaths reaction will be important. I mean, kore IS a dwarf, so I wouldnt be surprised to find out that he is a figure of legend to his people. Whether that legend is good or bad remains to be seen.

[Ubiq]

WHY THE HELL IS KORE RECOGNISED AS A PALADIN?!?!?!?!?!

He's a paladin in the service of Armok, who makes Crom look like an active and compassionate deity by comparison.

[Anteros]

Last second bets people. Will this comic have them spot Kore before its too late? Or will their only warning be a last panel of several crossbow bolts shooting at them? Seriously, this is huge. Waiting to see what the general nongoblin reactions will be. How will minmax and forgath react to kore? How will kore react to them? I honestly get the feeling forgaths reaction will be important. I mean, kore IS a dwarf, so I wouldnt be surprised to find out that he is a figure of legend to his people. Whether that legend is good or bad remains to be seen.

Sounds like it's time to cut away to Dies Horribly.

[BannedInSchool]

As Forgath is prophesied to be killed by a dwarf (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12152009/), he might not be too happy to see Kore.

BTW, the previous page (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12082009/) also has the serpent prophecy for those who've forgotten it. :smallsmile:

[Anteros]

As Forgath is prophesied to be killed by a dwarf (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12152009/), he might not be too happy to see Kore.

BTW, the previous page (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12082009/) also has the serpent prophecy for those who've forgotten it. :smallsmile:

You are totally the first person who has ever noticed that. :smallbiggrin:

[John Cribati]

So… do we know what clan Forgath hails from? Because it might be the same one that Expendable Dwarf Child came from, the one Kore had good relations with. And if that boy was possibly a relative of Forgath’s… "friends will become enemies," much?

[BannedInSchool]

You are totally the first person who has ever noticed that. :smallbiggrin:
Hey, it's been four years since those appeared. That's meant as a little refresher as we've already had one poster ask "what prophecy?", not an insightful observation. :smalltongue:

[Liliet]

Regarding Kore's explanation, I personally don't want to get my hopes up too high. I'm not confident in Thunt to trust him to awe me on rules in a game he's been criticized for how he applies before and I hardly knows anyway.

As such, whatever the reason will be is what it will be.
Well I am. I am completely serious in rating this comic above OotS in everything but pacing and drawing goblins.



Last second bets people. Will this comic have them spot Kore before its too late? Or will their only warning be a last panel of several crossbow bolts shooting at them? Seriously, this is huge. Waiting to see what the general nongoblin reactions will be. How will minmax and forgath react to kore? How will kore react to them? I honestly get the feeling forgaths reaction will be important. I mean, kore IS a dwarf, so I wouldnt be surprised to find out that he is a figure of legend to his people. Whether that legend is good or bad remains to be seen.
I say they spot them. Because I'm ruled by wishful thinking and I totally believe that the best possible outcome will happen.



He's a paladin in the service of Armok, who makes Crom look like an active and compassionate deity by comparison.
I dunno who either of them is, but paladins are supposed to be judged by objective cosmic forces, not gods.... otherwise how the hell is Big Ears a paladin, and how the hell was that little girl in the history of the axe a paladin?

[Gnoman]

I dunno who either of them is, but paladins are supposed to be judged by objective cosmic forces, not gods.... otherwise how the hell is Big Ears a paladin, and how the hell was that little girl in the history of the axe a paladin?

Just so the references are clear:

Armok
(http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Armok)

Crom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crom_(fictional_deity))

[Purgatorius]

I'm under the impression Kore is feared by everyone, not just monsters.Yup, seems so.

[Morty]

Wait, are people still trying to rationalize Kore's paladin status? Seriously. We've been told by characters in the story, twice, that he's not supposed to be a paladin. One of those people was an actual, honest-to-goodness paladin. Kore breaks the rules, somehow.

[BannedInSchool]

New comic: http://www.goblinscomic.org/12122013/
Yup, Forgath knows Kore and is not happy to see him.

"Hey, Forgath. You think that's the dwarf that's going to kill you?" :smallbiggrin:

[EnragedFilia]

Wait, are people still trying to rationalize Kore's paladin status? Seriously. We've been told by characters in the story, twice, that he's not supposed to be a paladin. One of those people was an actual, honest-to-goodness paladin. Kore breaks the rules, somehow.

And that's why people are trying to speculate as to exactly how he breaks the rules. I, for one, think the involvement of Armok, a deity from a completely different continuity who may or may not have any direct influence on events even there, is exactly the sort of bizarre and humorous speculation these threads have always specialized in.

[Adaon Nightwind]

Finally, we may get some answers about Kore. I'm looking forward to that next update!

[Traab]

Im pretty sure the next update will involve more running away screaming than explaining things.

[IW Judicator]

Hrmmm...

Next update:

Minmax: What's a Kore? Is he going to help us kill these stupid goblins?
Forgath: WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! MINMAX, GIVE ME THE RACIST AX!
Minmax: Okay. All Dwarves suck. They don't have laser vision or telekinisis or nothin'.
Forgath: DAMN IT MINMAX, JUST GIVE ME YOUR TREASURE FROM THE MAZE BEFORE KORE-
Minmax: Oh please Forgath. We just defeated a massively overpowered Psion thingy who wanted to unmake reality and an army of us-es, and we're still in the magical land of low level encounters. How bad could this one dwarf thingy be?"

-Cue a scene of over the top, unnecessary violence-

On the other hand...imagine how much worse everything would be if Kore had been an equal level Cleric instead of a Paladin...mmmm...Tiers...

[BannedInSchool]

Just try to be optimistic about Kore. Whatever he does, no matter how awful it may seem, is somehow for the best. Praise Kore! :smallwink:

[TheSummoner]

My money says the next comic opens with Kore firing on the goblins, not caring that Minmax and Forgath are also in the line of fire.

[EnragedFilia]

My money says the next comic opens with Kore firing on the goblins, not caring that Minmax and Forgath are also in the line of fire.

Unfortunately, while D&D does not work that way, it is exactly the sort of "screw the rules, let's use more realism" that one should probably expect by this point. Right up there with a hold person that breaks when the target gets tackled, really...

[Draconi Redfir]

goblins has never exactly been by the books anyways, if you wanna hit someone with your sword you just do it, you don't wait around for six secconds while everyone else does something.

[EnragedFilia]

And conversely, if Thunt wants you to stand around like an idiot long enough for something very unpleasant to happen (http://www.goblinscomic.org/11302012/), that's exactly what you're going to do, no matter how much you might have wanted to swing that sword first.

[FatJose]

Unfortunately, while D&D does not work that way, it is exactly the sort of "screw the rules, let's use more realism" that one should probably expect by this point. Right up there with a hold person that breaks when the target gets tackled, really...

Firing into melee.
Hold person is supposed to be a mind affecting spell, not physical binds of light that can be manipulated. Hold Person isn't more realistic in this comic, it's just a different spell.

[Draconi Redfir]

And conversely, if Thunt wants you to stand around like an idiot long enough for something very unpleasant to happen (http://www.goblinscomic.org/11302012/), that's exactly what you're going to do, no matter how much you might have wanted to swing that sword first.

but... huh?:smallconfused: They were busy with a conversaition, there was nothing physically stopping any of them from killing Jr. Nor was there anything asside from perhaps recovering from his wounds that was preventing Jr. from attacking any of them.

[EnragedFilia]

but... huh?:smallconfused: They were busy with a conversaition, there was nothing physically stopping any of them from killing Jr. Nor was there anything asside from perhaps recovering from his wounds that was preventing Jr. from attacking any of them.

Exactly my point. Sometimes you can just take actions whenever you want (while having a conversation), but other times you're "busy" and can't. Since Baka didn't attack Jr. even though there was nothing stopping him from doing so and he clearly wanted to, this situation stands in contrast to that state of affairs you mentioned wherein "you just do it". And as best I can tell, the major distinction between the two is "because the story says so".

And to likewise clarify my other point, as I'm sure many of us know, the actual rules for firing into melee don't place anyone other than the target in a "line of fire", but merely applies a tohit penalty. Thus, the simple fact that a meaningful use of the term is possible represents a departure from how D&D works.

Not that I'm complaining per se, just pointing out an old grievance. I do understand that Thunt has good reasons for ignoring the RAW in the service of his story, but I still enjoy examining how it's happening and why.

[t209]

"last of Greyhill Paladins"
- I knew that it might be some sort of curse or some deals that made him not go "fallen paladin".

[IW Judicator]

"last of Greyhill Paladins"
- I knew that it might be some sort of curse or some deals that made him not go "fallen paladin".

Maybe he killed all the others because they weren't Paladin enough? :smallyuk:

[BannedInSchool]

Maybe he killed all the others because they weren't Paladin enough? :smallyuk:
I'm guessing Forgath will know because no player would remember details like this unless they were part of their own character's background. :smallbiggrin:


"last of Greyhill Paladins"
- I knew that it might be some sort of curse or some deals that made him not go "fallen paladin".
I still want to see if he bounces.

[IW Judicator]

I still want to see if he bounces.

I can't wait to see if he'll come down with a severe case of Dwarven Beard Envy.

[Math_Mage]

Unfortunately, while D&D does not work that way, it is exactly the sort of "screw the rules, let's use more realism" that one should probably expect by this point. Right up there with a hold person that breaks when the target gets tackled, really...
There are rules for the former, and the latter isn't supposed to prevent tackling anyway.


And conversely, if Thunt wants you to stand around like an idiot long enough for something very unpleasant to happen (http://www.goblinscomic.org/11302012/), that's exactly what you're going to do, no matter how much you might have wanted to swing that sword first.
Right, because the only two reasons for someone not to do something are D&D rules or arbitrary authorial decree.

Wait, no, that's not how it works.

[EnragedFilia]

Right, because the only two reasons for someone not to do something are D&D rules or arbitrary authorial decree.

Wait, no, that's not how it works.

Certainly there are other explanations, but if someone says he wants to do something which the rules would normally indicate that he can do, and he doesn't do it, that would suggest that the rules are not in force. And anyway, that single example was intended as support for the conclusion, not ironclad evidence unto itself.

[Rosstin]

Things are really heating up! I can't wait for the next comic!

The clock isn't too bad. I think it's actually a good feature.

[Lizard Lord]

Certainly there are other explanations, but if someone says he wants to do something which the rules would normally indicate that he can do, and he doesn't do it, that would suggest that the rules are not in force. And anyway, that single example was intended as support for the conclusion, not ironclad evidence unto itself.

Baka didn't attack because the girl basically said "wait don't" and they started arguing about her reasons for a little bit. That's all there is to it. I'm not sure where you get this stuff about D&D rules from. :smallconfused:

[Math_Mage]

Certainly there are other explanations, but if someone says he wants to do something which the rules would normally indicate that he can do, and he doesn't do it, that would suggest that the rules are not in force. And anyway, that single example was intended as support for the conclusion, not ironclad evidence unto itself.
Or that he's more easily distracted by arguing than others? And after all, they were arguing over whether or not to act.

[Draconi Redfir]

i don't know about you guys, but whenever i play a D&D game and somebody wants to attack something, we usually make sure it's okay with everyone else before we actually do it. it's not something in the game stopping us, it's US stopping us.

[EnragedFilia]

Yes, they're arguing, which under the rules is normally a free action but not always. And more to the point they're arguing out of character, which normally doesn't mean your characters are talking at all but here it does. Both of these would represent a minor departure from the rules (not to mention limitations of the medium). Taken together they result in the party getting slaughtered while they argue, which is funny, and that makes it okay. Moreover, it represents a major departure from the state of affairs that Draconi mentioned about not being limited by the mechanics of actions and rounds: they might not be limited by six-second rounds, but they're a good deal more limited by having no access to AOOs (again, fairly minor in and of itself) or to out-of-character discussions that don't waste their characters' time.

Now the post is long enough already, so if you really want me to elucidate the details of my gripes with regards to each of the other non-rules-based behavior I mentioned:
firing into melee, as I understand the rules, means you take a -4 penalty to hit. It does not give you a chance of hitting and/or damaging anything other than your target, and as such nobody else can be said to be "in the line of fire". I opted not to point this out to TheSummoner because I don't doubt that if Thunt wants to make a plot point out of Kore putting Minmax and Forgath in danger, he will.

Hold Person, as mentioned, is a mind-affecting compulsion enchantment that renders its target paralyzed. That it may also involve a visual effect of some sort is perfectly in keeping with that, so long as the visual fluff doesn't change its function. As such, what I would expect to occur when Big Ears tackles the held Thaco is that the one ends up carrying the other, who remains held. If shattering the easily-breakable H symbol breaks the enchantment, that's either a completely different spell like FatJose mentioned (which happens to have the same name and a fairly similar effect) or a change that Thunt decided to make to the existing one. Either way, it's a significant departure from the rules.

And once again, I don't have a problem with using different rules, I just like pointing it out for reasons of my own.

[Liliet]

Forgath seems to be pretty knowledgeable about Kore. Greyhill paladins? Were they all like that, or is Kore the reason why he's the last one of them?

What I want to see now: Kore doing bad things to MM and F, and goblins coming back to stop him because they are pissed or see a chance of defeating him all together...

(they do need to stop him from going after their village, after all)


PS I like how MM's armor keeps changing color whenever he names some color, no matter how offhand the comment. It's these little consistent details that make this comic so good ^^

PPS I can't believe people are arguing about breaking the 4th wall not being realistic enough. That's just... aarrrgh.

[Anteros]

goblins has never exactly been by the books anyways, if you wanna hit someone with your sword you just do it, you don't wait around for six secconds while everyone else does something.

http://www.goblinscomic.org/07302005/

[Killer Angel]

Forgath seems to be pretty knowledgeable about Kore.

Indeed, this probably means that we are also going to know more about Kore. Finally!

And, despite being a dwarf, Forgath is scared by Kore too...

[Liliet]

Indeed, this probably means that we are also going to know more about Kore. Finally!

And, despite being a dwarf, Forgath is scared by Kore too...

Remember that dwarf kid? Yeah.

Forgath has a couple of minutes ago been friendly interacting with a yuan-ti. Maybe Kore has some means to determine that, or maybe Forgath thinks he does, or maybe Forgath thinks he possibly might. Or maybe Forgath is just creeped out by powerful, dangerous, unstable, homicidal psychopaths. Who knows?

[Morty]

Given Kore's tendency to kill people for simply associating with evil (or what he thinks is evil), I think it's pretty much a given that he's left a wide swath of innocent corpses behind him.

[Daywalker1983]

What do you think of the writing in this update?

I don't like it. The way the fight between Complains and Minmax is broken u is not relatable at all to me. They are fighting to the death, Minmax i in the midst of a potential killing blow, and he stops because a thrown Piece of Wood to Insult another fighter? Which, talking or not, should provoke an AoO because of the flank alone, that complain does not use to strike a blow himself?

MM wastes another attack (oO) by watching the goblins flee while Standing by Scratching his head, all the while his eyebrow does an Impression of the worlds most pathetic comb over.

And the the hold spell is broken in the most out of left field way possible, while Forgath does a stint as captain Exposition, and Thunt cheats himself around drawing a complete Panel.

[Hyena]

You know, old Minmax looks just plain weird. Like somebody planted a kid's head on an adult's body.

[Liliet]

What do you think of the writing in this update?

I don't like it. The way the fight between Complains and Minmax is broken u is not relatable at all to me. They are fighting to the death, Minmax i in the midst of a potential killing blow, and he stops because a thrown Piece of Wood to Insult another fighter? Which, talking or not, should provoke an AoO because of the flank alone, that complain does not use to strike a blow himself?

MM wastes another attack (oO) by watching the goblins flee while Standing by Scratching his head, all the while his eyebrow does an Impression of the worlds most pathetic comb over.

And the the hold spell is broken in the most out of left field way possible, while Forgath does a stint as captain Exposition, and Thunt cheats himself around drawing a complete Panel.

I don't know about the technical DnD rules, but from an outside viewpoint this fight was pretty relatable to me. Keep in mind that with Minmax's crazy brokenness goblins are not a real threat, and his companion is a _cleric_. He can afford getting distracted a little and wasting actions on thinking through the situation, especially given how it's thinking that's the more difficult activity here.

If there's one thing that I don't care about accuracy of here, like, _at_all_, it's how Hold Person is supposed to work. Forgath used it to restrain Thaco. The spell restrained Thaco. Then distraction came and gave Big Ears an opportunity to rescue Thaco, while Forgath was looking at the new threat. Logically, from the viewpoint "characters knew how this spell worked and acted in accordance with that", everything worked.

Also, Forgath's exposition was the highlight of the strip and something people have anticipated for a long, long time.

[ChowGuy]

Forgath seems to be pretty knowledgeable about Kore. Greyhill paladins? Were they all like that, or is Kore the reason why he's the last one of them?

Submitted for your consideration:

Could be he is/was the last of the group of Paladins/Clerics that fought the demon, and imprisoned it in the axe since they couldn't banish hit. That would make Kore very old as befits his obviously high level, as well as intrinsically bound to the axe by whatever curse keeps him alive and prevents him from falling.

[Kornaki]

Not to mention Thaco gets to make a will save every turn to escape, so it's not like it was unthinkable for Thaco to be carried by Big Ears (under the normal rules of Hold Person) or to just escape himself and run with them.

The comic has never tried to be a strict interpretation of Dnd rules (unlike OOTS, despite the Giant's objections!)so seeing Hold Person refluffed in a way that has no effect on the story and just makes for a cool visual effect is a major non-issue.

[Draconi Redfir]

only in goblins will you see people complaining about how a spell of all things is "supposed" to work when three major forces in the comic just collided and some much-needed informaition on the current antagonist was just given to us:smalltongue:

[EnragedFilia]

It is by no means only Goblins where a reader might be allowed to be more interested in random minutia than in the details of ostensibly significant plot developments.

[Ravenlord]

It'd greatly help it thunt didn't just shove the rules in our faces other times (like the big honking digits once someone enters negative HP). It's like with that finger-thing all over again. Either play by the rules, or stop pretending you are - in my opinion, of course.

[Trubbol]

I really hope Senor Vorpal Kickass'o gets out okay!

[John Cribati]

It'd greatly help it thunt didn't just shove the rules in our faces other times (like the big honking digits once someone enters negative HP). It's like with that finger-thing all over again. Either play by the rules, or stop pretending you are - in my opinion, of course.

Or maybe, just maybe, play by the rules you think make sense, and then ignore or change those that you don't. It's what both Rich and Thunt do.

[VariSami]

It'd greatly help it thunt didn't just shove the rules in our faces other times (like the big honking digits once someone enters negative HP). It's like with that finger-thing all over again. Either play by the rules, or stop pretending you are - in my opinion, of course.
Mr. Fingers? Thunt actually provided stats (http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20110524.jpg) for it and I believe DMs are allowed to create custom monsters under the rules. It is one of the least egregious uses of Rule 0, after all.

Personally, I do not really care either way. It would become a lot more clunky if rules were slavishly followed. For example, dying characters should all fall unconscious unless everyone in Thuntverse has Diehard. This would kill a lot of drama. And if things like attacks of opportunity were also implemented, they would be useless unless the story is somehow affected by them. Either Thunt would have to draw a few extra attacks just to show that he cares about the rules or he might ignore the rules in non-dramatic cases.

[IW Judicator]

Mr. Fingers? Thunt actually provided stats (http://www.goblinscomic.org/comics/20110524.jpg) for it and I believe DMs are allowed to create custom monsters under the rules. It is one of the least egregious uses of Rule 0, after all.

Personally, I do not really care either way. It would become a lot more clunky if rules were slavishly followed. For example, dying characters should all fall unconscious unless everyone in Thuntverse has Diehard. This would kill a lot of drama. And if things like attacks of opportunity were also implemented, they would be useless unless the story is somehow affected by them. Either Thunt would have to draw a few extra attacks just to show that he cares about the rules or he might ignore the rules in non-dramatic cases.

That's the updated version, correct? IIRC, the original version of that sheet had a much higher Save DC required (Mid twenties to thirties) than the ones listed there, which had a lot of people calling foul. Still, brings back some fond memories.

[Daywalker1983]

It'd greatly help it thunt didn't just shove the rules in our faces other times (like the big honking digits once someone enters negative HP). It's like with that finger-thing all over again. Either play by the rules, or stop pretending you are - in my opinion, of course.

That...

And if you others read my post again, you'll see that the rules weren't the only Problem...far from it.

[archon_huskie]

You know, old Minmax looks just plain weird. Like somebody planted a kid's head on an adult's body.

That's actually a very good description of MinMax's personality.
But as we have been learning ever since Brassmoon, MinMax has been growing as a person.

[Ravens_cry]

That's actually a very good description of MinMax's personality.
But as we have been learning ever since Brassmoon, MinMax has been growing as a person.
Yeah . . .
I really hated what AltKin did to the necklace, to the point where I almost want to rage at the author for it. The only thing that stops me is I know her motivation was well, if cynically, meant.
Speaking of the author, I think I see a problem with his 'I wrote everything out in advance' style. It means that he has very little leeway if something that looked good in script form becomes complete patootie when drawn out, as pretty much any changes will, unless wrested back on the rails, lead to ever further changes, not without extensive rewrites anyway. There is little room for feedback either, since, again, it's all written out in advance.

[Starbuck_II]

That's the updated version, correct? IIRC, the original version of that sheet had a much higher Save DC required (Mid twenties to thirties) than the ones listed there, which had a lot of people calling foul. Still, brings back some fond memories.
No, we called foul because the math didn't add up.

With a racial bonus to DC, it'd be fine, but the original didn't have that.

[IW Judicator]

No, we called foul because the math didn't add up.

With a racial bonus to DC, it'd be fine, but the original didn't have that.

Ah, so that's what it was...boy, it's really been a while..

[EnragedFilia]

No, we called foul because the math didn't add up.

With a racial bonus to DC, it'd be fine, but the original didn't have that.

The way I remember it was a little of each. The fort saves were both over 20 and the higher of the two was near-impossible for a character of that level to hit, someone took issue with all four of the save DCs being out of whack with the attribute scores, someone else said the hp was too low, and at first its int was given as '-' instead of 1, which would make it a trivial matter to anyone with a scroll of command undead. These were fixed piecemeal or justified (hence the "feeble physique" line next to the hp total) over the course of about a day.

[archon_huskie]

Yeah . . .
I really hated what AltKin did to the necklace, to the point where I almost want to rage at the author for it. The only thing that stops me is I know her motivation was well, if cynically, meant.
Speaking of the author, I think I see a problem with his 'I wrote everything out in advance' style. It means that he has very little leeway if something that looked good in script form becomes complete patootie when drawn out, as pretty much any changes will, unless wrested back on the rails, lead to ever further changes, not without extensive rewrites anyway. There is little room for feedback either, since, again, it's all written out in advance.

As the old saying goes: Only ten things where written in stone.
I don't actually know if that's an old saying or not.

point is that if he wants to change it, he can change it, and pretend that he never changed it. How would we know?

But if you want to give feedback, you might want to try the Goblinscomic.org forums themselves. He's more likely to read it there.

[Ravens_cry]

As the old saying goes: Only ten things where written in stone.
I don't actually know if that's an old saying or not.

point is that if he wants to change it, he can change it, and pretend that he never changed it. How would we know?

But if you want to give feedback, you might want to try the Goblinscomic.org forums themselves. He's more likely to read it there.
True, but he said he wrote it all out in advance, and, unless he gives me a reason to think he did re-writes based on feedback, there's not any reason to disbelieve him either.

[Liliet]

Submitted for your consideration:

Could be he is/was the last of the group of Paladins/Clerics that fought the demon, and imprisoned it in the axe since they couldn't banish hit. That would make Kore very old as befits his obviously high level, as well as intrinsically bound to the axe by whatever curse keeps him alive and prevents him from falling.
...was there any infoormation regarding the axe's age? I know dwarves are more long-lived that humans... but not immortal... and Kore doesn't seem epic to me.



Yeah . . .
I really hated what AltKin did to the necklace, to the point where I almost want to rage at the author for it. The only thing that stops me is I know her motivation was well, if cynically, meant.
Speaking of the author, I think I see a problem with his 'I wrote everything out in advance' style. It means that he has very little leeway if something that looked good in script form becomes complete patootie when drawn out, as pretty much any changes will, unless wrested back on the rails, lead to ever further changes, not without extensive rewrites anyway. There is little room for feedback either, since, again, it's all written out in advance.
Seriously? No, seriously?

First of all, we all know that despite all forum jokes, The Giant has the storyline planned out in advance as well, and just as well doesn't change things based on feedback.

Second, this is how books have always been made. You write the entire thing, and after it's published _whole_ you take feedback into consideration for your next work. Even with books published in the internet step-by-step, based on my experiences of interacting with amateur writers and being an amateur writer myself, it's MUCH better when the writer knows what's going to happen beforehand and only allows feedback to affect her grammar/style/word choice/minor nitpicky details/whatever else beta readers are for. And even that is mostly due to the fact that in the wall of text, unlike the comic strip that has barely a few sentences, it's next to impossible to not make any mistakes. (and due to the fact that many, many of these authors don't know their own language)

Point is, Thunt is good enough writer to plan out the whole story in advance, AND THAT'S A VERY GODDAMN GOOD THING, as anyone who's many people who have ever tried to write a book will tell you. And anyone who's many people who have ever tried to follow books being published chapter-by-chapter, too.

(webcomics are somewhat different format in that they don't need to follow a single coherent story at all, gag-a-day works just as well, but Goblins are more like a book in that regard, just like OotS)


PS And yes, if the author decides that the script already written is not good enough, be it due to feedback or anything else, he puts his butt down and REWRITES, and yes it's a lot of work, but the more work, the better the story in the end, and yes it's a direct relationship, like earning exp.

[Ravens_cry]

I am not talking about planning. I am not even talking about the storyline. Of course you plan, some authors loosely, some more firmly, but Goblins' author apparently (www.goblinscomic.org/three-years-later-weve-arrived/)basically scripted the whole thing out long before he drew a single image.
And, yes, considering he would be then translating that script into another medium, I would say that is a bad thing. Some stories work better in one medium than another, or are told differently, and setting everything basically in stone like that leaves little margin for error.

[Killer Angel]

Remember that dwarf kid? Yeah.


Of course I remember it. Kore was also saying that the Bladebeard clan is made of honorable dwarves.
From that info, one could tell that Kore is a homicidal maniac, but that he could be in good relations with (not tainted by evil) dwarves.
Or: the rest of the world is evil, the dwarves usually not.

Judging from Forgath's reaction, even this is not true.

[Ravens_cry]

Of course I remember it. Kore was also saying that the Bladebeard clan is made of honorable dwarves.
From that info, one could tell that Kore is a homicidal maniac, but that he could be in good relations with (not tainted by evil) dwarves.
Or: the rest of the world is evil, the dwarves usually not.

Judging from Forgath's reaction, even this is not true.
Given his apparent 'standards', pretty much anything is tainted by evil.
Kore is a truly chilling villain, probably the most effective Thunt has written in my opinion.
Heck, he's not so much a villain as a force of nature. You don't bargain with him, you don't defeat him, you run, run your ass off.

[Avaris]

I just had a thought. Maybe Forgath knows and fears Kore not because he is a dwarf, but because he is a follower of Herbert.

We need a reason why Kore will attack (and persumeably kill, though I don't think that will happen yet) Forgath. Forgath has just acquired a magic item that prominantly displays his holy symbol. If Kore is an enemy of Herbert, he would attack followers on sight, and followers like Forgath would know this.

But why would he be an enemy of Herbert yet friendly with other 'good' parts of the world (like the dwarves)? My theory: he's an escaped DMPC. It explains his power level, and the 'cursed scourge of the grey realm, last of the greyhill paladins' stuff sounds like the sort of 'cool' background that may be created for a DMPC!

[Draconi Redfir]

Of course I remember it. Kore was also saying that the Bladebeard clan is made of honorable dwarves.
From that info, one could tell that Kore is a homicidal maniac, but that he could be in good relations with (not tainted by evil) dwarves.
Or: the rest of the world is evil, the dwarves usually not.

Judging from Forgath's reaction, even this is not true.

could possibly be that he just knows the bladebeards are honorable dwarves, and doesn't know them personally.

i'm not saying e doesn't have any freinds/good relaitions, but i wouldn't be surprised if he more or less kept entirely to himself unless he needed something like replacement armor/weapons or a place had been tainted by evil.

i mean yes, there are probably people he won't kill if they stay away from orcs and the like and don't have any goblinslayers or freindly neighborhood orcs running around, but i'd be surprised if people poked their heads out of their windows to wave a freindly hello to him in the morning. Keep in mind that this guy still kills innocent people who did nothing wrong other then be in the wrong place at the wrong time, that'll be scary even for people who do beleive all orcs and all goblins and all non-humans-elves-dwarves-gnomes-etc are evil.

[Vinyadan]

I am not talking about planning. I am not even talking about the storyline. Of course you plan, some authors loosely, some more firmly, but Goblins' author apparently (www.goblinscomic.org/three-years-later-weve-arrived/)basically scripted the whole thing out long before he drew a single image.
And, yes, considering he would be then translating that script into another medium, I would say that is a bad thing. Some stories work better in one medium than another, or are told differently, and setting everything basically in stone like that leaves little margin for error.

Just two things.
I think he scripted it, but not so thoroughly. I've heard that Ears should have died at the beginning of the story (which I am not too keen to believe, given how relevant the Axe is - although the party could have hold onto it simply without knowing what it was, and used it to randomly perform good deeds.)
And you shouldn't be worried about scripting comics, because that's the way you do the thing, if you do it seriously. Yes, there have been cases where the writer already pulled out a little sketch of the page for the artist to follow (Bonelli being one), but that's another thing. The script isn't a medium, but a preliminary phase in preparation of the comic.

Now, had he written the thing down as a novel, and were he now just turning it into a comic, well, that would probably stink, but I doubt he did that.

As for the rules: my instincts tell me that, if you want to write about a fantasy world, you don't need to use them, or to name them in the first place. If you want to play the part of the world which follows those rules, however, you have to follow them. Thunt has a tendency towards applying them, as long as he doesn't have some awesome plot point which needs to screw the rules - such as Kore. As far as I know, there is no RAW explanation for him. This would make me scream "Foul!"; but the rules are actually being used as an expedient to make the comic more interesting. I mean, if it weren't for the suspense caused by the broken rules, would we enjoy so much the presence of Kore? So, even though the rules don't add anything to the story, they do to the way people enjoy the comic. However, I can't but feel that, once the comic is finished, the half-applied rules will actually be a quirky and negative element in the book, and leave a lot of question unresolved (for example, the relationship between Herbert, the players, the PC, the NPC and the GAP).

[Killer Angel]

I just had a thought. Maybe Forgath knows and fears Kore not because he is a dwarf, but because he is a follower of Herbert.

We need a reason why Kore will attack (and persumeably kill, though I don't think that will happen yet) Forgath. Forgath has just acquired a magic item that prominantly displays his holy symbol. If Kore is an enemy of Herbert, he would attack followers on sight, and followers like Forgath would know this.


That's a possibility.
Or Forgath knows that the dwarves that really falls in the "honorable beings that don't need to be killed", are part of a very narrow cathegory. And that any dwarf (like him) that are adventurers that travel far from home, are automatically "tainted by evil".

[Traab]

Hey forgath healed a goblin once, thats enough to earn him death in kores book if he finds out. Honestly, I kind of look at it as a far less jolly version of Othar Trygvassen Gentleman Adventurer. In Girl Genius, this guy roams europa, killing off everyone that has a certain trait, even though he has it himself. He plans to keep going till they are all gone then kill himself. So Kore is roaming the world killing everything that can be even remotely close to evil. If he ever judges his task done, he will likely then kill himself due to how much evil he has interacted with.

Thats unfortunate for forgath and minmax though, as he likely considers anyone even remotely connected to evil to be tainted by it. So if he spots you in an area full of evil things, even if he sees you fighting them, he will likely kill you anyways "just in case"

[Liliet]

Of course I remember it. Kore was also saying that the Bladebeard clan is made of honorable dwarves.
From that info, one could tell that Kore is a homicidal maniac, but that he could be in good relations with (not tainted by evil) dwarves.
Or: the rest of the world is evil, the dwarves usually not.

Judging from Forgath's reaction, even this is not true.

As far as I understand Kore's way of thinking, dwarves, humans, and probably other existing PC races are OK. They are honorable/good/whatever, and they are not to be killed. Unless they are specifically tainted with evil. Which is pretty easy. But without that, Kore is totally happy to be best buddies with them. Until they meet a goblin and don't slaughter him immediately. Then he will kill them.

Point is, any ideas Kore has about the world around him do not have to be grounded in reality, and any interpersonal relation he has towards the word around him... is not exactly symmetrical.

Kore thinks Bladebeard clan is honorable. Bladebeard clan thinks he's a child killer.

[Sholos]

As to the discussion on the Rules being followed or not... I think it's really a matter of context. With Kore, it's very much acknowledged that he shouldn't be able to keep being a paladin, and yet he does. It's a plot point. That kind of rule-breaking is something I'm personally okay with. The ones that get me are when there's no explanation nor promise of an explanation and then it looks more like a mistake than something done on purpose. Especially when it's used to screw someone over, because then it puts me in the mind of a vengeful DM using Rule 0 to screw over a player they're mad at.

[IW Judicator]

I believe on the Goblins Forum they were discussing the possibility of a version of D&D in which the concepts of Good and Evil did not exist, though Law and Chaos did, and that Kore could potentially be a hold-over from such a version (or was it a setting? I'm not sure, perhaps someone more enlightened could verify), in part since Kore is supposedly very old (I believe via the UStream the answer given was "Yes" for if Kore was 'old' for a human or old for a dwarf).

[BaronOfHell]

Well I am. I am completely serious in rating this comic above OotS in everything but pacing and drawing goblins.

I also think it's very great (or I wouldn't be reading it). So, given you have an idea, what kinds of explanation would satisfy you?

[Vinyadan]

I believe on the Goblins Forum they were discussing the possibility of a version of D&D in which the concepts of Good and Evil did not exist, though Law and Chaos did, and that Kore could potentially be a hold-over from such a version (or was it a setting? I'm not sure, perhaps someone more enlightened could verify), in part since Kore is supposedly very old (I believe via the UStream the answer given was "Yes" for if Kore was 'old' for a human or old for a dwarf).

He would have to come from before AD&D, where G-N-E were added to the axis L-N-C.

It is also interesting that Kore doesn't use the EvilRadar which comes with his class features.

[Hytheter]

Couldn't Kore be a Level 10 Grey Guard? It would still require a fairly liberal/extreme interpretation of the class abilities, but it seems like a decdnt explanation to me.
For those unaware, Grey Guard is a Paladin Prestige Class that gives you a gradually more liberal code of conduct, and represents an order of less idealistic Paladins, "doing what must be done, no matter how unpleasant."
At Level 10 they get this:

Sacrament of the True Faith: At 10th level, you gain your order's full confidence. You are granted the freedom to act on behalf of your faith as you deem necessary. Thus, you never risk losing your class abilities in the pursuit of a just cause and never need to atone for violating your code of conduct. *This trust does not grant you the freedom to act as violently or immorally as you wish, however. Release from your code of conduct depends on your acting as an exemplar of your order's ideals. If you violate this trust by habitually acting in an immoral or corrupt manner, the leaders or deity of your faith might revoke their blessing and banish you from the ranks of the faithful.
*from the asterisk onwards is a bit of a complication, but it depends. Maybe these Greyhill Paladins and their deity were all this extreme. While we don't believe killing innocent children that might be tainted by evil is a "just cause", he seems to genuinely believe so, and his authorities quite possibly agree.

Grey Guards can also smite opponents of any alignment.

[Hands_Of_Blue]

...was there any infoormation regarding the axe's age? I know dwarves are more long-lived that humans... but not immortal... and Kore doesn't seem epic to me.1057 winters (http://www.goblinscomic.org/08122007/).

[IW Judicator]

1057 winters (http://www.goblinscomic.org/08122007/).

Hmm..in that case, unless he's been cursed with some form of immortality that'd make him more than 2-4 times as old as any dwarf should be, if he was somehow the lone paladin survivor.

[Anteros]

Maybe Forgath is the previously mentioned gay character, and he's just nervous about meeting his crush randomly? :smalltongue:

[Daywalker1983]

Maybe Forgath is the previously mentioned gay character, and he's just nervous about meeting his crush randomly? :smalltongue:

I like that one far more than all the pojntless rules lawyering about obscure prstige classes that have never ever been the solution to such problems in any given comic.

[Killer Angel]

It is also interesting that Kore doesn't use the EvilRadar which comes with his class features.

He stopped using it, when the results didn't meet his expectations. The radar was clearly broken! :smallwink:

[Vinyadan]

He stopped using it, when the results didn't meet his expectations. The radar was clearly broken! :smallwink:

The radar was EVIL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw)!!!

[FatJose]

Maybe Forgath is the previously mentioned gay character, and he's just nervous about meeting his crush randomly? :smalltongue:

Highly unlikely since Forgath was kissed by MinMax and didn't enjoy it. As we all know, MinMax's Charisma is Awesome.

[Liliet]

I also think it's very great (or I wouldn't be reading it). So, given you have an idea, what kinds of explanation would satisfy you?
There's a number.

First of all, Kore actually being a blackguard and not realising it. He would lose class abilities from acting Good once in a while, but, well, that's not something he does.

Second, regardless of that class, one of the gods being a jerky cheater who just personally enables his powers without consulting how the class is supposed to work.

Third, Evil winning in general somehow tainting even the paladin powers and making them less Good.

Fourth, Kore personally being powerful in completely different way but thankfully only channeling it in paladin's class features because of his delusions. I say "thankfully" because of paladin being low-tier and all that.

Actually, any possible explanation so long as it explains both Kore being like that and the other paladins not being. Except for "he's gay, that's why". It would, technically, meet the terms, but... why did I get this idea at all?!

Ah. Because of the whole "who's gay" debate, that's why.



Highly unlikely since Forgath was kissed by MinMax and didn't enjoy it. As we all know, MinMax's Charisma is Awesome.
Not that I think Forgath is gay, but I'm a girl who is totally into guys, and I really wouldn't be happy about being randomly kissed by someone who's not my boyfriend. Or girlfriend. No matter how high their Charisma is. Seriously, that's sexual harrasment. Well, maybe not from the close friend who's only joking around, but that's pushing the boundaries of good taste anyway and is really not enjoyable. Not that I have any first-hand experience, but seriously, have you ever heard of someone being acquitted of rape on basis of his being hot?

[The Glyphstone]

Not touching RL applications of the question, but as far as fictional examples:

"Not rape. I believe," said Mr.Betteridge, finding a rock on which he could stand. "Not in the case of Cohen the Barbarian. Ravishing, possibly."

"There is a difference?"

"It ¡s more a matter of approach, I understand." said the historian. "I don't believe there were ever any actual complaints."

[Draconi Redfir]

The radar was EVIL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw)!!!

i was expecting something more along the lines of This. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ucZsJQxbQ)

[BaronOfHell]

Except for "he's gay, that's why". It would, technically, meet the terms, but... why did I get this idea at all?!

Ah. Because of the whole "who's gay" debate, that's why.

I think you're right in Kore's delusional, and the gay debate just sparked my creativity.. while I didn't like the idea of guessing at any character being gay based on what we currently know about them, I think it'd be hilarious if it is Forgath who's gay, has a fan-boy crush on Kore, but Kore in his delusion.. thinks he's lesbian!

[BannedInSchool]

Well, in THunt's Twitter Sneak Peak (https://twitter.com/Thunt_Goblins/status/412316687837315072)
Kore is shooting at someone and Forgath looks to be intentionally getting in the way. Maybe Kore's shooting at MinMax, or maybe at the GAP and MM put himself between Kore and the GAP because "No kill-stealing, hairface!". :smallbiggrin:

[Liliet]

Not touching RL applications of the question, but as far as fictional examples:
-there was a quote here (seriously, don't use quote tag for not-forum quotes, it doesn't work when it's quoted)-
This can be possibly be interpreted as Conan actually seeking agreement of the girls and getting it without much problem in most cases. So it could be called rape only from the point of view of parents, fiances, husbands and DEFILED FOREVER OH NOES.

Or it can be horrible and let me go kill that guy.

I never read any of the Conan stories so I don't know )=



I think you're right in Kore's delusional, and the gay debate just sparked my creativity.. while I didn't like the idea of guessing at any character being gay based on what we currently know about them, I think it'd be hilarious if it is Forgath who's gay, has a fan-boy crush on Kore, but Kore in his delusion.. thinks he's lesbian!
That bad? Er... no, seriously? *turns on imagination, gets a sneak peek, turns off imagination* you said nothing and I read nothing ><

[The Glyphstone]

I never read any of the Conan stories so I don't know )=



It's Cohen, the Discworld parody version of Conan. Your points stand though.:smallsmile:

[Starbuck_II]

Not touching RL applications of the question, but as far as fictional examples:

Well, its' other name is surprise sex which fits your fictional example.

[SaintRidley]

Not touching RL applications of the question, but as far as fictional examples:
-there was a quote here (seriously, don't use quote tag for not-forum quotes, it doesn't work when it's quoted)-

*stuff*

Fun fact: quoting a post never captures what might be in any forum quote tags in the post. You have to go back and manually add in any quotes if you want nesting. It's a pain.

Still think it's best to put non-forum quotes in quote tags when they're longer. It signals what they are better that way.

[Liliet]

Fun fact: quoting a post never captures what might be in any forum quote tags in the post. You have to go back and manually add in any quotes if you want nesting. It's a pain.

Still think it's best to put non-forum quotes in quote tags when they're longer. It signals what they are better that way.
The point of no nested quotes is that if you want to address both the post and the quote in it, you can just quote both posts. It doesn't work that way with out-of-forum quotes, so logic fails and the tag doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

There are many traditional way to highlight quotes - you now, "quotes", italics...



It's Cohen, the Discworld parody version of Conan. Your points stand though.:smallsmile:
Test of attentiveness... failed!

I should read The Last Hero one of these days...

[Gift Jeraff]

New comic. (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12172013/)Minmax/GAP team-up imminent?

[Killer Angel]

New comic. (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12172013/)Minmax/GAP team-up imminent?

Isn't that what we are all waiting for? :smallwink:

[IW Judicator]

Still awaitin' on Forgoth to pick up the +7 Racist Ax.

EDIT: And one of these parties seriously needs a rogue.

[BaronOfHell]

I didn't expect Kore to just fire at them without finding out if they were evil monsters first.

Maybe Kore is Miko's brother and is mad at the universe for what happened to her? MinMax is bald like Roy so he thinks MinMax is Roy!

[Draconi Redfir]

i'm guessing so. Also; Puzzle doors. The worst kind.

[BannedInSchool]

I didn't expect Kore to just fire at them without finding out if they were evil monsters first.
He can't waste time for F&M to get out of the way. The goblins might escape! If they're in range he has to fire now. If someone is standing in the way then they're in the way of ridding the world of evil. If someone is obstructing the elimination of evil how good can they really be? :smallbiggrin:

[IW Judicator]

He can't waste time for F&M to get out of the way. The goblins might escape! If they're in range he has to fire now. If someone is standing in the way then they're in the way of ridding the world of evil. If someone is obstructing the elimination of evil how good can they really be? :smallbiggrin:

Plus they were letting the goblins escape. That makes them undeniably Evil.

[Bobb]

I'm just sooo relieved that chief's death bought them enough time.

Seriously. If they had just kept running when kore was coming they'd have made it to the door with time to spare.

Even AFTER all that, if there hadn't been a random encounter (MM and FG) they'd have still made it to the door before a single volly from kore.

[Liliet]

I like Minmax's priorities: Forgath > goblins > some dumb paladin.

Also, they are sooo going to team up. What I personally can't wait for is for goblins to undeniably demonstrate their Good alignment. Preferably without anyone (but Kore) dying ><

Also, SCREW DESTINY I DON'T WANT FORGATH TO DIE!!!!!!~

[TheSummoner]

My money says the next comic opens with Kore firing on the goblins, not caring that Minmax and Forgath are also in the line of fire.

Called it.

[t209]

If Forgath died, I would see Minmax proceeding to beat up Kore and see his "mutated" face.

[Landis963]

If Forgath died, I would see Minmax proceeding to beat up Kore and see his "mutated" face.

Must have missed that. When did Kore's face get "mutated?"

[IW Judicator]

Must have missed that. When did Kore's face get "mutated?"

That'd be a reference to the second to last panel on this page (http://www.goblinscomic.org/01182011-2/), where if you look through the eye slit in Kore's helm you can see two little....shiny points...on his head, which is believed to be part of a physical manifestation of Kore's "Curse".

That or the subsequent beard damage (always the most terrible thing to happen to any dwarf) :smallbiggrin:

[t209]

That'd be a reference to the second to last panel on this page (http://www.goblinscomic.org/01182011-2/), where if you look through the eye slit in Kore's helm you can see two little....shiny points...on his head, which is believed to be part of a physical manifestation of Kore's "Curse".

That or the subsequent beard damage (always the most terrible thing to happen to any dwarf) :smallbiggrin:
I thought it was his eyes.

[IW Judicator]

There is one eye towards the bottom of the slit, but at the top well...if he's got eyes up on top of his skull he might have some rather unusual issues.

[TheStranger]

Perhaps he was burned by acid, or something.

Looking at that comic again, they kind of look like stitches or staples, and his nose doesn't look right either. Regardless, that comic certainly suggests that he's hiding something unusual under that helmet.

[TheSummoner]

I always figured that was just some sort of piercing.

[TheStranger]

The fact that the comic focuses so much on Kore removing his helmet, and the fact that his face isn't shown, pretty much guarantees something interesting under there. The laws of narrative causality pretty much demand that Kore won't just be a normal-looking dwarf when we finally see his face. Whether that means he's a demon, undead, disfigured, really goofy-looking, a woman, or whatever, there's something there.

[EnragedFilia]

The fact that the comic focuses so much on Kore removing his helmet, and the fact that his face isn't shown, pretty much guarantees something interesting under there. The laws of narrative causality pretty much demand that Kore won't just be a normal-looking dwarf when we finally see his face. Whether that means he's a demon, undead, disfigured, really goofy-looking, a woman, or whatever, there's something there.

I think that one's called the law of conservation of detail, but it works pretty much like you described. If there wasn't something about Kore's head worth hiding from the readers, it wouldn't be hidden.

[TheStranger]

I think that one's called the law of conservation of detail, but it works pretty much like you described. If there wasn't something about Kore's head worth hiding from the readers, it wouldn't be hidden.

That's the one. I knew I didn't have quite the right terminology. Point is, that setup makes no sense if Kore's just a normal-looking dwarf. (Unless it's being played for laughs, but I don't get that impression.)

[Gift Jeraff]

FWIW, Thunt compared that scene to the scene where we get a hint of Darth Vader without his helmet.

[runeghost]

In the previous strip, Korgath mentions that Kore is cursed. Could it be that he is cursed to find reasons why everyone he comes into contact with as Evil? If so, could that be why he hasn't fallen yet - to the best of his ability to discern, he is doing good.

So Minmax and Forgath would be evil because they were accompanying goblins, or not killing goblins fast enough or something along those lines.

[Giggling Ghast]

I also feel that Kore's curse is more of an appearance thing. Hence the full helmet.

That said, he doesn't view it as a curse because it somehow allows him to retain his paladin abilities without falling.

[Liliet]

In the previous strip, Korgath mentions that Kore is cursed. Could it be that he is cursed to find reasons why everyone he comes into contact with as Evil? If so, could that be why he hasn't fallen yet - to the best of his ability to discern, he is doing good.

So Minmax and Forgath would be evil because they were accompanying goblins, or not killing goblins fast enough or something along those lines.
Nuh-uh. Morality is objective in DnD, and this is exactly the case where this is important. What Kore is doing is objectively, unquestionably Evil. His curse must ALSO include linking his powers to something else than the usual paladin source.

[Killer Angel]

i'm guessing so. Also; Puzzle doors. The worst kind.

They would need Tempts Fate.

[Traab]

So I cant wait to see what the puzzle is. Also, i fully expect forgath to stand in between kore and the goblins while they work to solve the puzzle because he has +4 armor to missiles and can take minimal damage at most from his freaking machine gun crossbow monstrosity. One last bit, is Kore really going to pull a jason here? By which I mean the slow walk towards his targets despite them actively working on a way to escape? Heh, maybe his armor has such a high encumbrance he is reduced to a 10 foot move speed or something. Seriously though. He can tell where they are going, he doesnt want them to get away, MOVE YOUR BEARD DAMAGED ARSE AND FINISH THEM OFF KORE!!!

[John Cribati]

He is carrying a friggin’ door on his back. Maybe it does have to do with encumbrance.

[Psychonaut]

i'm guessing so. Also; Puzzle doors. The worst kind.

Worse than decorative (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12212009/)?

[Killer Angel]

Worse than decorative (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12212009/)?

Now, imagine it, attached to an annoying talking wall...

[Vinyadan]

He is carrying a friggin’ door on his back. Maybe it does have to do with encumbrance.

That's actually a lead door to hide his alignment from monsters! And what would that be? DUN DUN DUNNN!

[Draconi Redfir]

Worse than decorative (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12212009/)?

VERY worse. puzzle doors are both puzzles, AND deccoritive:smalleek:

[Lizard Lord]

I like Minmax's priorities: Forgath > goblins > some dumb paladin.

Also, they are sooo going to team up. What I personally can't wait for is for goblins to undeniably demonstrate their Good alignment. Preferably without anyone (but Kore) dying ><

Also, SCREW DESTINY I DON'T WANT FORGATH TO DIE!!!!!!~

Here is my problem. The goblins and anyone else not explicitly said to have players for them having destiny is fine. But enforcing destiny on your players requires heavy railroading and railroading a character to death whose player has done nothing wrong is despicable. If Forgath does die here just because destiny says so then Herbert is the worst kind of GM.

[Jade_Tarem]

Here is my problem. The goblins and anyone else not explicitly said to have players for them having destiny is fine. But enforcing destiny on your players requires heavy railroading and railroading a character whose player has done nothing wrong is despicable. If Forgath does die here just because destiny says so then Herbert is the worse kind of GM.

We already know that Herbert is the worst kind of GM. He can't take criticism, allows one of the player characters to worship him as a god, has killed four different player characters with a homebrew creature that acts outside the initative order, and apparently sublimates his dating woes by roleplaying a yaun-ti rape victim who flirts with one of his surviving players.

Mind you, I think that's deliberate. I've been hard on the comic in the last thread, but Herbert's awful GMing is almost certainly being played for laughs, just like the moronic behavior of every player except the one playing Forgath.

[YeahThatGuy]

This comic makes me think the whole "Kore will kill Fargoth" thing is a red herring. Forgoth is a dwarf and fought many (dwarf) Fargoths in the Maze of Many, and they did "lose" an obscene number of times.

Plus all deaths in Goblins are gruesome.

[Vinyadan]

This comic makes me think the whole "Kore will kill Fargoth" thing is a red herring. Forgoth is a dwarf and fought many (dwarf) Fargoths in the Maze of Many, and they did "lose" an obscene number of times.

Plus all deaths in Goblins are gruesome.

Eh eh... Fargoth (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Fargoth).

[IW Judicator]

I just really hope that the puzzle isn't something like Assume that the universe has been expanding since the planck time. Calculate the necessary value for Omega (the density of the Universe as expressed by a ratio of gravitational forces and expulsion forces) for all of creation to neither collapse nor expand into formless emptiness eons ago. Calculate Omega for a universe that does not expand until after the planck time. Failure to show your work will result in your mysterious and contrived death (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/08/05/episode-449-speak-friend-and-enter/)

And if its somehow solved by Minmax I think I'll cry.

[Anteros]

I just really hope that the puzzle isn't something like Assume that the universe has been expanding since the planck time. Calculate the necessary value for Omega (the density of the Universe as expressed by a ratio of gravitational forces and expulsion forces) for all of creation to neither collapse nor expand into formless emptiness eons ago. Calculate Omega for a universe that does not expand until after the planck time. Failure to show your work will result in your mysterious and contrived death (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/08/05/episode-449-speak-friend-and-enter/)

And if its somehow solved by Minmax I think I'll cry.

Well..if it follows that pattern the door will be opened from the other side by Dies and his crew.

[Draconi Redfir]

We already know that Herbert is the worst kind of GM. He can't take criticism, allows one of the player characters to worship him as a god, has killed four different player characters with a homebrew creature that acts outside the initative order, and apparently sublimates his dating woes by roleplaying a yaun-ti rape victim who flirts with one of his surviving players.

Mind you, I think that's deliberate. I've been hard on the comic in the last thread, but Herbert's awful GMing is almost certainly being played for laughs, just like the moronic behavior of every player except the one playing Forgath.

for the sake of argument, it's still entirely possible that Kills killing the rerolls, and potentially even Klik killing Drassit as well as Kin's whole thing weren't the doing of Herbert. We have no way of knowing what does or doesn't happen because of him unless it's directly implied, see the demon's portal and the one-legged orc. For all we know everything that happened with dies horribly and the crew were completely outside his control.

[IW Judicator]

Well..if it follows that pattern the door will be opened from the other side by Dies and his crew.

Huh...fair point. Though I'm not sure if that'd be disturbing, amusing, frightening, baffling, disappointing, or some other emotion.

[ChowGuy]

Huh...fair point. Though I'm not sure if that'd be disturbing, amusing, frightening, baffling, disappointing, or some other emotion.

Well I don't remember off hand where the world map is but as I recall we last saw Dies & Co. in the outdoors of the Viper Clan's territory, which is a fair piece from the Dragon's Maw entrance where the GAP are now. So if it were to happen, it would mean another lengthy dungeon crawl to get them there, and I think the emotion on this board at least would be better described as "consternation."

Knock wood.

[Hytheter]

Here is my problem. The goblins and anyone else not explicitly said to have players for them having destiny is fine. But enforcing destiny on your players requires heavy railroading and railroading a character to death whose player has done nothing wrong is despicable. If Forgath does die here just because destiny says so then Herbert is the worst kind of GM.

We already know that Herbert is the worst kind of GM. He can't take criticism, allows one of the player characters to worship him as a god, has killed four different player characters with a homebrew creature that acts outside the initative order, and apparently sublimates his dating woes by roleplaying a yaun-ti rape victim who flirts with one of his surviving players.

Mind you, I think that's deliberate. I've been hard on the comic in the last thread, but Herbert's awful GMing is almost certainly being played for laughs, just like the moronic behavior of every player except the one playing Forgath.

I think the trick is to not take the fact that there are players and a DM too seriously as plot elements. It's really just something that gets played for laughs and enhances the "It's a DnD game but also real? Sort of" theme. I say don't place too much scrutiny on the meta stuff and focus on the actual story being told.

[Draconi Redfir]

Sadly Hytheter, i've already tried explaining that multiple times. i don't think they get it:smalltongue:

[archon_huskie]

You could just say that it is Early Installment Weirdness

then add a link to TVtropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness/WebComics)where it actually lists this as an example!!!

[EnragedFilia]

You could just say that it is Early Installment Weirdness

then add a link to TVtropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/EarlyInstallmentWeirdness/WebComics)where it actually lists this as an example!!!

It's possible, but when that trope is in use it tends to preclude blatant references to throwaway gags (http://www.goblinscomic.org/07212013-2/) from the early installments being used long after the throwaway gags disappear. I suspect it's something slightly more significant, perhaps a scenario that involves Herbert slowly losing control over his game and becoming more and more disturbed when his dice and/or his plot notes start doing weird things that he didn't intend.

That would mean that Thunt is either making a point by intentionally moving away from "this is a game controlled by a DM" toward "this is a fantasy world where a few things that happen might be more or less controlled by a DM" and possibly ultimately toward "this is not a game and anyone who thinks there's a DM is just delusional or something", or just trying to have it both ways and make a different type of point by juxtaposing DM-controlled events with non-DM-controlled events. It would be easier to tell which if there was a clearer distinction between the two paradigms, but the prevalence of undocumented house rules for major and minor points alike makes it a deal harder to distinguish between them.


Huh...fair point. Though I'm not sure if that'd be disturbing, amusing, frightening, baffling, disappointing, or some other emotion.

I believe the term you're looking for is "nerd rage inducing"

[FatJose]

Maybe Herbert will finally piss off his players for the last time and TPKs everyone with Kore. The PCs, now abandoned, stabilize and go on to have awesome Herbertless adventures. You know, like Toy Story but gory and on paper...or some thing.

I still dont get where the serpent fits in for that prophecy. I dont think it is Kin and that Dragon/Serpent gate seems a bit too on the nose. Can doors that are just a means to get to your actual prey be counted as also being prey?

[IW Judicator]

Well I don't remember off hand where the world map is but as I recall we last saw Dies & Co. in the outdoors of the Viper Clan's territory, which is a fair piece from the Dragon's Maw entrance where the GAP are now. So if it were to happen, it would mean another lengthy dungeon crawl to get them there, and I think the emotion on this board at least would be better described as "consternation."

Knock wood.

...Though it wouldn't NECESSARILY be out of the question for it to be opened by the MAP (The Monster Adventuring Party, comprised of Yala, Tark, and the others). I wouldn't mind seeing them again (and they even have a technical goblin in the party! Le gasp!)

[Hands_Of_Blue]

While I would like to see the Monster Adventuring Party as well, I highly doubt they'll show up.

Here's the map (http://imageshack.us/a/img716/8149/j9ug.jpg), for anyone interested. There appears to be quite a few mountains and a rather large lake between the Viper Clan and the Dragon's Maw enterance. Also, I forgot there was a city with such a silly name as "Target Town".

[Draconi Redfir]

from the looks of it Dies and Co might meet up with the Gap at the exit of the dragon's maw. perhaps Dies invites Fox, Biscut, and possibly even Grem and any other surviving non-viper goblins to his village after the massacure of the Viper clan.

[Kornaki]

from the looks of it Dies and Co might meet up with the Gap at the exit of the dragon's maw. perhaps Dies invites Fox, Biscut, and possibly even Grem and any other surviving non-viper goblins to his village after the massacure of the Viper clan.

UUghhh not another dungeon crawl. I need some time to decompress and see story develop at a quicker pace.

[Draconi Redfir]

well it's not like they have anywhere else to go. and umm... it's kinda been setting up to this for like two or three years? We can still get some development from MM and Forgath working with the GAP.

[IW Judicator]

Though actually now I'm a bit curious...I wonder how the denizens of this particular dungeon will react to the GAP. We've only really seen 4 dungeons in the entire comic:

1: I suppose it's not so much a "Dungeon" as it is a "Random Encounter", but the Orcs of the Swamp of Silence were clearly mindless/controlled by plants and thus couldn't form a constructive opinion on the matter one way or the other.

2: Goblinslayer's Dungeon was clearly a very bad place for them to be...but in the end it was filled with all kinds of very helpful allies who were only too willing to help out (for a while at least).

3: The Well of Darkness didn't really contain any monsters besides Noe (dungeon guide with lethal abuse effects) the Lesser Finger Horror (mindless, or at least not intelligent enough to form a constructive opinion) and the demons (not monsters in the same vein as say a Goblin or a Kobold or something).

4: Maze of Many (not relevant to the Goblins themselves and thus not providing a useful guide of sorts).

So basically we've only seen mindless enemies, humans, or demons. If they enter this dungeon crawl, I wonder just how things will turn out. Will they hack and slash their way through like a human party, regardless of the monsters within? Will they instead use diplomacy and try to earn good rp exp in liu of combat exp and potentially sacrificing a goodly amount of loot? Will there be a combination of the sort? Will there just be more 'mindless' enemies and thus avoid the point entirely? Will Kore eventually be powerful enough to kill things at a rate high enough to totally depopulate the realm? Find out next time on Dragon Ball- I mean Goblins.

[Liliet]

Here is my problem. The goblins and anyone else not explicitly said to have players for them having destiny is fine. But enforcing destiny on your players requires heavy railroading and railroading a character to death whose player has done nothing wrong is despicable. If Forgath does die here just because destiny says so then Herbert is the worst kind of GM.Herbert is the guy who threw demons at his players after they complained about the easy encounter, and when they complained about that, threw the suicidal orc at them. He is like an actual god - you know, for example, Greek god - those were just intolerable.

Also, I dislike the idea of destiny very much, and since the comic has already brought it up explicitly, I fully expect the heroes to defy it. Hell, it can actually be the goal of the current campaign; why not?

[Rosstin]

Will Goblins actually upload in 2 minutes? TENSION!!

[The Glyphstone]

Will Goblins actually upload in 2 minutes? TENSION!!

Sources say no.

[IW Judicator]

I wager a furry mushroom that we won't have QUITE enough time to form a proper betting pool before the comic updates, but it'll still be long enough to curb enthusiasm. So like...10, 15 more minutes...(I know, I know, betting on the longshot)

[Rosstin]

I bet 5 quatloos that we have an update between 9:20 and 9:40pm California time (20 to 40 minutes from now).

[IW Judicator]

New Comic (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12222013/)

And...I'm not really 100% sure what to say...

[t209]

http://www.goblinscomic.org/12222013/
Update:
Hmm, Either it's the tiles under tree icon, or the tree itself, or the secret pocket near the tree tile but located in its roots, safe combination (pree keys then the tree) or a riddle.

[Hytheter]

I'm wondering what the catch is here. As it stands the puzzle looks suspiciously easy.

[IW Judicator]

Hmm...having taken a proper moment to look at the puzzle itself...its actually pretty simple. The Tree and Key are close to one another (as is the open slot) so it won't take TOO long for it to be opened if they do it logically (I've got it figured but it'd be a pain to explain and my art skills are a farce...). My guess is either Thac0 or Ears getting it open (thanks to their presumed Wisdom modifiers).

EDIT: As for it being suspiciously easy...perhaps...but then again, I can't think of too many dungeons in which you have to solve a riddle just to get inside. Usually they're open to whatever lunatic wants to die in them that day without a second thought. Between the iron bars and the puzzle itself (both more time consuming than difficult) well...it doesn't seem like too effective a barrier, but then there's the wondering of why there'd be a barrier preventing entrance in the first place...unless the seeming 'shortcut' dungeon is hiding some ungodly abomination within that's been...very poorly...sealed away...so...I really don't konw. :smallconfused:

[SaintRidley]

Hmm...having taken a proper moment to look at the puzzle itself...its actually pretty simple. The Tree and Key are close to one another (as is the open slot) so it won't take TOO long for it to be opened if they do it logically (I've got it figured but it'd be a pain to explain and my art skills are a farce...). My guess is either Thac0 or Ears getting it open (thanks to their presumed Wisdom modifiers).

EDIT: As for it being suspiciously easy...perhaps...but then again, I can't think of too many dungeons in which you have to solve a riddle just to get inside. Usually they're open to whatever lunatic wants to die in them that day without a second thought. Between the iron bars and the puzzle itself (both more time consuming than difficult) well...it doesn't seem like too effective a barrier, but then there's the wondering of why there'd be a barrier preventing entrance in the first place...unless the seeming 'shortcut' dungeon is hiding some ungodly abomination within that's been...very poorly...sealed away...so...I really don't konw. :smallconfused:

Maybe there was a prophecy about this door that the gate would only be opened to admit attempts to solve the puzzle when Kore was around to try and kill you while you scrambled to complete the puzzle.

:smalltongue:

That almost seems like a Thunt-ish thing to do, actually.

[FatJose]

These goblins are kind of bugging me, they look like little red martians with their antennae that are supposed to be ears.

Really hoping we didn't wait three years so we can watch another cleric bleed out while blubbering his apologies.

[IW Judicator]

These goblins are kind of bugging me, they look like little red martians with their antennae that are supposed to be ears.

Really hoping we didn't wait three years so we can watch another cleric bleed out while blubbering his apologies.

To be fair, I'm not sure if he'll be blubbering out apologies if he's being actively tortured to death by Kore (there's supposed to be lots of screaming after all).

[Lizard Lord]

I love how Big Ears starts to raise his hand and Thaco and Names tell him to shut up! :smallbiggrin:

[Killer Angel]

I love how Big Ears starts to raise his hand and Thaco and Names tell him to shut up! :smallbiggrin:

well, given that he cannot even scratch Kore, it seems a wise suggestion... :smallwink:

So, who will be the suicidal volunteer? Forgath? :smalltongue:

[Traab]

well, given that he cannot even scratch Kore, it seems a wise suggestion... :smallwink:

So, who will be the suicidal volunteer? Forgath? :smalltongue:

Forgath has the highest armor against range attacks, (probably highest armor period) and numerous healing spells to keep him going. Give him the racist axe and he becomes the closest thing to a credible threat any of them can pose.

[Anteros]

The problem with that is if Forgath goes...Minmax will go too. Unless Thunt decides to derail his character again.

[IW Judicator]

The problem with that is if Forgath goes...Minmax will go too. Unless Thunt decides to derail his character again.

Unless its a TPK and we switch over to the MAP.

[Bird]

Seems a little 'convenient' that Forgath comes up with a "one for Kore, the rest for the puzzle" solution. It's going to be about two seconds before the puzzle solvers are all in each others' way -- using more of them on Kore distraction would likely be better resource allocation.

Meanwhile, the best person for the puzzle would be -- I dunno, really. I figure it for an INT check, and except for MinMax-who-is-dumb, nobody around stands out as having especially low or high INT. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Forgath has a modest bonus, actually (he had a couple of bright moments in the MoM), and Thac0 has age modifiers in his favor.

If they need WIS to notice something, though, I agree with SaintRidley that you'd want Thac0 or Ears. (Or Forgath.)

I see Thac0 as being more able than Ears to focus on the puzzle and ignore the Kore fight. Ears isn't gonna like being the one to sit out a moment of self-sacrifice.

*

And contradicting what I just said above -- maybe you do just want as many folks as possible on the puzzle, to maximize the chance that someone will notice whatever the trick/catch is. Seems likely somehow that Fumbles will notice something.

[Anteros]

If we wanted common sense instead of maximum drama Forgath could just tank the bolts and solve the puzzle at the same time.

[Bird]

If we wanted common sense instead of maximum drama Forgath could just tank the bolts and solve the puzzle at the same time.
Tanking bolts has gotta be a circumstance penalty, but that'd be cute.

[Starbuck_II]

Doesn't Minmax have Deflect Arrows?

[Lizard Lord]

The problem with that is if Forgath goes...Minmax will go too. Unless Thunt decides to derail his character again.

At first I thought that Minmax can't because he is holding up the gate, but no. Minmax would totally drop the gate (bonus points if he drops it on the goblins) to rescue Forgath.


Doesn't Minmax have Deflect Arrows?

Minmax can only deflect one missile weapon a round (they mentioned this with Thaco in Brassmoon.) Kore fires eight bolts a round.

[Liliet]

My bet is that even if Forgath is the one to shield the others, he doesn't die here.

The basis for it? I don't want him to die. Simple as that.


Also, loved the goblins shutting up the paladin, even if he hasn't opened his mouth yet.

[Sholos]

How does one fire 8 bolts in a single round within D&D rules? Or is this another case of the rules being shoved aside for the story.

[The Glyphstone]

How does one fire 8 bolts in a single round within D&D rules? Or is this another case of the rules being shoved aside for the story.

You could do it with a crossbow with Splitting and enough attacks. Since that doesn't visually match up, though, you would need BAB 16+ and the Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting epic feat while wielding a pair of Repeating Crossbows.

[Liliet]

You could do it with a crossbow with Splitting and enough attacks. Since that doesn't visually match up, though, you would need BAB 16+ and the Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting epic feat while wielding a pair of Repeating Crossbows.I think that if the visualization is the only thing that doesn't match up, no epic feats are needed to explain it away. Behold, the power of re-fluff! Of course, for that to work the crossbows should only be wielded in pair, and when one is damaged the other should stop working too, but we haven't seen anything contracting that yet.

[tyckspoon]

How does one fire 8 bolts in a single round within D&D rules? Or is this another case of the rules being shoved aside for the story.

4 attacks from BAB + 1 Rapid Shot + 1 Haste or Speed weapon + up to 3 more with the Two-Weapon Fighting line of feats and dual-wielding crossbows with one of the like three different ways for them to be self-loading so you don't need a free hand. Requires being really high level and wasting a lot of character resources on what turn out to be fairly cruddy attacks, tho (on the other hand, considering Kore is peppering low-level characters with crossbows and not only has not yet killed them but can actually miss a fair number of attacks... something like that might actually be happening.)

But Kore appears to be using some funky sort of multi-bows, so there's probably some homebrew Exotic Weapon in play here alongside or instead of the usual high BAB + bonus attacks stuff.

[Anteros]

At first I thought that Minmax can't because he is holding up the gate, but no. Minmax would totally drop the gate (bonus points if he drops it on the goblins) to rescue Forgath.



Minmax can only deflect one missile weapon a round (they mentioned this with Thaco in Brassmoon.) Kore fires eight bolts a round.

Yeah, he's certainly not going to hold up the gate for the goblins to escape while Forgath fights Kore. It makes no sense for him either as a character or from a logical perspective.

That said...I no longer trust Thunt to remember how his characters actually behave when he can conveniently ignore it for maximum drama. So it won't surprise me a bit if it happens that way.

[Draconi Redfir]

people asking about how core shoots eight bolts a round...

... he has crossbows that shoot four bolts at a time... TWO of them. He just bulls back both of his index fingers and holds them there.

[FatJose]

That said...I no longer trust Thunt to remember how his characters actually behave when he can conveniently ignore it for maximum drama. So it won't surprise me a bit if it happens that way.

What are some examples of that? Honestly curious about your opinion. There's been times I didnt like the writing but I can't think of any specific cases of characters changing personality.

[Lizard Lord]

What are some examples of that? Honestly curious about your opinion. There's been times I didnt like the writing but I can't think of any specific cases of characters changing personality.

My guess is this is how he sees Minmax grabbing Kin's leash. However, If I'm right, its not something I agree with.

[Killer Angel]

Forgath has the highest armor against range attacks, (probably highest armor period) and numerous healing spells to keep him going. Give him the racist axe and he becomes the closest thing to a credible threat any of them can pose.

I agree with this, but Forgath is also scared by the wall's prophecy, and this, at least, could impair his fightin' mood.

[CRtwenty]

Bet you wish you'd prepared Protection from Arrows today eh Forgath?

Honestly Forgath or Ears are probably the best bets for tanking the arrows. With Ears' magical armor and Forgath's ring and heavy armor they've probably got the highest AC, boost that with the full defense action and it's unlikely they'll get hit that much. Plus both of them are capable of healing themselves. Min-Max should continue holding up the gate and let the other goblins solve the puzzle.

It's been awhile since I read the bit with the GAP before, but has Ears used any of his Lay on Hands today? I think he's still too low level for actual Paladin spells atm.

[EnragedFilia]

What are some examples of that? Honestly curious about your opinion. There's been times I didnt like the writing but I can't think of any specific cases of characters changing personality.

The way I see it, possibilities include (in no particular order):
Both Dies and Saves failing to see through the "one orb for one soul" trick contract.

The Viper clan feeling the need to try to trick Biscuit and thinking they could do so with nothing more than a series of bluff checks.

Ruby, who knows at least as well as "prime" Kin that not all Humans are monsters, separating Prime Kin from her Human (the fact that it worked is another matter, and one which I understand has been thoroughly discussed).

Kin, who still apparently knows what she's been through with Minmax and Forgath and at least presumably knowing herself well enough to know she wouldn't have done so without a good reason, abruptly deciding that she no longer feels the same way she felt when she woke up today.

I happen to feel that each of these is excusable largely due to being fairly important to the story, but I can also understand how they might be offputting to some.

[Silver Swift]

The way the puzzle is phrased, I'm guessing there is some kind of trick and just sliding the key until it is under the tree will not do you any good. Note that the third and fourth line have ambiguous references and that there is a tile with a door in the puzzle (which also happens to be under the tile with the tree).

No clue what the trick would be exactly, I doubt doing nothing is the answer, but I don't think this is a simple slider puzzle.

[Sholos]

people asking about how core shoots eight bolts a round...

... he has crossbows that shoot four bolts at a time... TWO of them. He just bulls back both of his index fingers and holds them there.

... Yes. Obviously. Which is just another great example as why this story should never have been presented as taking place in a world running on D&D rules. Really, has it ever added anything but confusion?

[Lord_Gareth]

... Yes. Obviously. Which is just another great example as why this story should never have been presented as taking place in a world running on D&D rules. Really, has it ever added anything but confusion?

It's also added numerous chances for Thunt to be immature and exhibit why you shouldn't play in his games.

[St Fan]

[Munckin mode]

You know, I just thought about it: what kind of character would be devastating with the Axe of Racism in hand? (at least against humanoids)

Changeling with the racial emulation feat. Can emulate any humanoid subtype, thus get the max bonus against all of them.

[/Munchkin mode]

[Killer Angel]

[Munckin mode]

You know, I just thought about it: what kind of character would be devastating with the Axe of Racism in hand? (at least against humanoids)

Changeling with the racial emulation feat. Can emulate any humanoid subtype, thus get the max bonus against all of them.

[/Munchkin mode]

There's something better.
Use Magic Device. :smallcool:
Emulate a race is a DC 25, and, since it's an ongoing effect, it lasts one hour.

[FatJose]

... Yes. Obviously. Which is just another great example as why this story should never have been presented as taking place in a world running on D&D rules. Really, has it ever added anything but confusion?

How does that add confusion? Is this like how some folks are against Rich inventing new spells? Nothing against the rules about making homebrew spells or items, there's even instructions on how to do it.

[Starbuck_II]

Couldn't Forgath tank with his beard? If he moves his beard fast enough he could to block all the bolts?

[BannedInSchool]

Couldn't Forgath tank with his beard? If he moves his beard fast enough he could to block all the bolts?
While one of the Kins said the replacement matter is more dense, we haven't seen any indication it's anything but simply stronger. No one's commented on the beard or tail being heavier. If the hairs just aren't breakable but still just as massive and stiff as before I'd imagine he should just end up with indestructible hair in his bolt-hole wounds. :smallbiggrin: Thaco was attempting to cut the hairs, but a bolt would push them aside or into Forgath. Maybe he could weave the beard into a thick mat that would make it a proper shield, but right now I wouldn't think it should offer much protection against piercing weapons.

[LoneStarNorth]

I imagine the beard would just part and offer zero protection against piercing weapons. Maybe if he braided it and wrapped it around one arm to use as an improvised buckler?

[EnragedFilia]

... Yes. Obviously. Which is just another great example as why this story should never have been presented as taking place in a world running on D&D rules. Really, has it ever added anything but confusion?

It's added a few decent jokes (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12072009/), too. That totally counts! After all, I say that if Futurama can get away with using different rules every episode and sometimes no rules at all, being sufficiently funny can excuse an awful lot. Now if only the comic would spend a little more time being funny...

[Draconi Redfir]

How does that add confusion? Is this like how some folks are against Rich inventing new spells? Nothing against the rules about making homebrew spells or items, there's even instructions on how to do it.

Spiked tentacles of forced intrustion anyone? Bigsby's expressive single digit anyone?

[FatJose]

It's added a few decent jokes (http://www.goblinscomic.org/12072009/), too. That totally counts! After all, I say that if Futurama can get away with using different rules every episode and sometimes no rules at all, being sufficiently funny can excuse an awful lot. Now if only the comic would spend a little more time being funny...

That joke is about how people interpret Charisma in different games. No rules were broken or ignored here.

[John Cribati]

That joke is about how people interpret Charisma in different games. No rules were broken or ignored here.

But that joke only works because Charisma is treated as having a numerical value, and by extension, because this is a D&D setting. That's what the comment was about.

Also that recursive D&D session the GAP had way back when had me in stitches.

[Anteros]

What are some examples of that? Honestly curious about your opinion. There's been times I didnt like the writing but I can't think of any specific cases of characters changing personality.

The Kin suddenly not trusting the guy who's saved her life like 12 times because he didn't give her a necklace, and Minmax grabbing the leash were the two most prominent.

I understand some people disagree with me on this. That's fine. I'm not trying to derail the thread into this argument again. I'm just answering a question.

[Traab]

Bet you wish you'd prepared Protection from Arrows today eh Forgath?

Honestly Forgath or Ears are probably the best bets for tanking the arrows. With Ears' magical armor and Forgath's ring and heavy armor they've probably got the highest AC, boost that with the full defense action and it's unlikely they'll get hit that much. Plus both of them are capable of healing themselves. Min-Max should continue holding up the gate and let the other goblins solve the puzzle.

It's been awhile since I read the bit with the GAP before, but has Ears used any of his Lay on Hands today? I think he's still too low level for actual Paladin spells atm.

He used loh on chief when he took kores bolt to the back. Cure light wounds on thaco to get him from -9 to standing.

[Morty]

Using D&D rules in a story has one advantage - you can drop system-specific names and terms without having to explain them, because the readers either know them or can look them up easily enough. That, however, applies to most pre-established systems and settings. D&D is easier to look up thanks to the SRD, I suppose. But few systems are as constraining and all-around awful as 3e D&D. Most of the time, the biggest effect D&D rules have on both OotS and Goblins is people complaining when the authors break the rules for the sake of the story, which happens often because D&D kind of blows at making good stories. The Giant seems more honest about breaking D&D rules, though.