LGBTAIitP #47: Weather Control Central

[Lentrax]

So long as I get some huge....
Tracts of land out of the deal, you can have the curtains. :smallamused:

[Zorg]

Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!

Adam and Eve? Well I guess that's why it's the bible and not the straightble :smallcool:

So in other news I've been up all night listening to Korn and drawing lesbian vampires - it's like a flashback to my teenage years :smallamused:

[Asta Kask]

Adam and Eve? Well I guess that's why it's the bible and not the straightble :smallcool:

So in other news I've been up all night listening to Korn and drawing lesbian vampires - it's like a flashback to my teenage years :smallamused:

Pics or stfu, yo.

[Lentrax]

Ahh the crazy days of teenagism. Drawing bizarre things, playing d&d in graveyards, finding places like Assumption Cemetary...


Good times.

[Mono Vertigo]

Adam and Eve? Well I guess that's why it's the bible and not the straightble :smallcool:

... *spots the pun*
*groans*
Okay, I award you one Internet, but in exchange, try not to do it again. I rarely see puns that are so bad and so great, both at the same time. I usually make them and then I have to promise BF I'll never repeat them again.

[Proud Tortoise]

I know right?

The other night I was told to go home early, and so I told my coworkers that I was going to pull a Sir Robin and run away.

I got nothing but blank stares. The one guy who got it said "So what, you're going to change your name to Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Film?"

Kids these days. Don't even know Monty Python...

Why? Why must I be so old?!

Who doesn't know Monty Python? Sad, lonely people with no purpose to their lives. I feel sorry for them.

[Coidzor]

Adam and Eve? Well I guess that's why it's the bible and not the straightble :smallcool:

So in other news I've been up all night listening to Korn and drawing lesbian vampires - it's like a flashback to my teenage years :smallamused:

... I'm just surprised and dismayed that I'd never run into that one before. XD

Especially the Korn, right? :smallamused: ...Actually this might be the first time I've run into a Korn reference since I was a teen... @)@

[Alad]

Hey I'm still a teen! quick someone gift me their ability to draw before I hit 20 :smalltongue:
Also I thought knowing monty python was obligatory. certainly seemed that way around my friends in college :smallbiggrin:

[Zorg]

Pics or stfu, yo.

Well they're not entirely work safe - but pt1 (https://24.media.tumblr.com/a7213418ae6096b92b65c5696181bf4f/tumblr_mzz0jrvQ971r3nwsxo2_1280.jpg), pt2 (https://31.media.tumblr.com/e8c2fe2a2a9a031d48d3b09c92b29d61/tumblr_mzz0jrvQ971r3nwsxo1_1280.jpg). Not too happy with #2, proportions are a bit off :/


Who knows Monty Python? Sad, lonely people with no purpose to their lives. I feel sorry for them.

FTFY :smallwink:


Especially the Korn, right? :smallamused: ...Actually this might be the first time I've run into a Korn reference since I was a teen... @)@

I was like driving somewhere blasting Make Me Bad and I realised "oh wow, this song came out when I was 16..." >.<

edit:


Ahh the crazy days of teenagism. Drawing bizarre things, playing d&d in graveyards, finding places like Assumption Cemetary...


Good times.

I used to have hair down to my waist when I was in high school then one day I got sick of it and gave myself a mohawk... never played D&D in a graveyard though - just seems like you'd get cold :smallamused: drawings are of my Vampire the Masquerade character though so yeah.

[Asta Kask]

Well they're not entirely work safe - but pt1 (https://24.media.tumblr.com/a7213418ae6096b92b65c5696181bf4f/tumblr_mzz0jrvQ971r3nwsxo2_1280.jpg), pt2 (https://31.media.tumblr.com/e8c2fe2a2a9a031d48d3b09c92b29d61/tumblr_mzz0jrvQ971r3nwsxo1_1280.jpg). Not too happy with #2, proportions are a bit off :/

Very good. You should watch Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter (http://badmovies.org/movies/jesusvamp/). Wherein Jesus and the Mexican wrestler El Santos gang up to fight vampires. Apparently the insane (is there any other kind) Dr. Praetorious has pioneered the art of protecting vampires from sunlight by providing them with lesbian skin grafts, and is using this to (of course) take over the world.

But it has lesbian vampires. And lesbians. And vampires.

[Jormengand]

ION, I have liberated my sisters' abandoned +2 Flaming Burst Hair Straighteners, Flip-flops of Shiny +3 and Underwear of (Quite Fortunately) Never Actually Having Been Worn.

Hair straighteners hurt if you burn your fingers on them, but I am gradually gaining EWP: Hair Straighteners, so there we go. Yay!

[Asta Kask]

ION, I have liberated my sisters' abandoned +2 Flaming Burst Hair Straighteners, Flip-flops of Shiny +3 and Underwear of (Quite Fortunately) Never Actually Having Been Worn.

Thinking of the underwear here - are you the same size?

[Jormengand]

Thinking of the underwear here - are you the same size?

Well, we're all medium creatures, so I think so - though I have no idea when the underwear was purchased, so it might even have been when whichever sister it was was a small creature.

In short, I dunno, but it seems to be the kind of underwear with Lesser Sizing, so maybe?

I need to stop making D&D jokes.

[Proud Tortoise]

I need to stop making D&D jokes.

No. No you do not.

This forum is motherglubbin built on D&D jokes.

[Zorg]

Asta- I have it on DVD. You left out that it's a musical! :smalltongue: it's actually pretty good really. Total crack, but good fun and has a really positive message of tolerance.

[Lentrax]

I used to have hair down to my waist when I was in high school then one day I got sick of it and gave myself a mohawk... never played D&D in a graveyard though - just seems like you'd get cold :smallamused: drawings are of my Vampire the Masquerade character though so yeah.

Yeah, the graveyard thing. So me and my friend decided we weren't going to our senior class party, since we wouldn't be able to have any of our stuff. No D&D no MtG, nothing. So we decided to ditch it, and went to our other friends house for an all nighter.

Well, the people in charge call your parents if anyone won a door prize. We both own, and neither of us was there. My friends mom panicked and thought we were devil worshipping in a graveyard with a 12 pack of beer.

[Delusion]

I bring you ADVENTURE!

http://i.4cdn.org/tg/src/1390580681284.jpg


That was fun ^^
Though usually when I do character planning like that I have two thoughts in mind: "I could have magic!" and "I could be a cis woman!"
I'd go with:
Angel (10pts)
Magic affinity x3 (6pts)
Glamour (4pts)
Lifespan (2pts)
Money (2pts)

Dunt need no skills or training when having that stronk magicks!

Anyway, apart from freezing when going iceskating with dad, extreme 1 minute long panic attack and nosebleed I think today was okay.

[Mono Vertigo]

That was fun ^^
Though usually when I do character planning like that I have two thoughts in mind: "I could have magic!" and "I could be a cis woman!"
I'd go with:
Angel (10pts)
Magic affinity x3 (6pts)
Glamour (4pts)
Lifespan (2pts)
Money (2pts)

Dunt need no skills or training when having that stronk magicks!

My boring self won.
Human (0pts)
Knowledge (All benefits) (4pts total)
Survivalist (2pts)
Lifespan (1) (4pts) [Functional immortality scares me, my feeble human mind can't imagine the idea of living forever without going crazy at some point.]
Magic Affinity (4pts)
Tongues (4pts)
Equipment (0pts)
Money (3) (0pts)
Gee, I have 6 points left but I'm already happy with what I have, let's go crazy then. Oh god I'm so boring.
Strength (1) (2pts)
Flight (4pts)

Setting: High magic fantasy, because why the hell not. I love cyberpunk and technomagic dystopias but I wouldn't want to actually live in one.

And with all this I start looking for BF, which I hope is not going to keep me busy for too long. And my best friends, while I'm at it. because if I'm the only one of this world who's moved into another reality, this is going to [I]suck.


Anyway, apart from freezing when going iceskating with dad, extreme 1 minute long panic attack and nosebleed I think today was okay.

... D:
Well, glad you had a good day otherwise?

[Lentrax]

I bring you ADVENTURE!

http://i.4cdn.org/tg/src/1390580681284.jpg

Doesn't work on my tablet... :smallfrown:

Now everyone's doing it and I feel left out...

And I don't even know what it is!

Anyway. Heading to bed. G'Night, my lovelies. For those of you in the mood for sleep, sweet dreams. For those of you who still have time to slave away at the daily grind, I wish you joy of the day.

I love you all. Each and every one of you.

Good night.

[Chess435]

Doesn't work on my tablet... :smallfrown:

Now everyone's doing it and I feel left out...

And I don't even know what it is!

Image link for you. (http://i.4cdn.org/tg/src/1390580681284.jpg) Sleep well! :smallsmile:

[Heliomance]

I find this very amusing. (http://ddriana.deviantart.com/art/Strong-Female-Pose-Dragon-Age-381583613)

[Delusion]

My boring self won.
Human (0pts)
Knowledge (All benefits) (4pts total)
Survivalist (2pts)
Lifespan (1) (4pts) [Functional immortality scares me, my feeble human mind can't imagine the idea of living forever without going crazy at some point.]
Magic Affinity (4pts)
Tongues (4pts)
Equipment (0pts)
Money (3) (0pts)
Gee, I have 6 points left but I'm already happy with what I have, let's go crazy then. Oh god I'm so boring.
Strength (1) (2pts)
Flight (4pts)

Setting: High magic fantasy, because why the hell not. I love cyberpunk and technomagic dystopias but I wouldn't want to actually live in one.

And with all this I start looking for BF, which I hope is not going to keep me busy for too long. And my best friends, while I'm at it. because if I'm the only one of this world who's moved into another reality, this is going to [I]suck.



The reason I chose angel and not the human was the ability to get to fourth magic affinity. What is this not maxing magic stuff xD

oh and ofc highmagic as well. Though the world ending threat sucks. Oh well atleast I'd be very good holy mage to counter balance my anxiety xD




... D:
Well, glad you had a good day otherwise?

Pretty normal and uneventful. But I got some homework done and everyday not spent in crippling anxiety is win for me.

[Lycunadari]

I bring you ADVENTURE!

http://i.4cdn.org/tg/src/1390580681284.jpg

"You can either pick male or female." Now I'm sad. Ignoring that...
Elf (2 points) I simply adore elves.
Survivalist (2 points) Useful!
Entertainer (one free) Musician, I dream of being a good violin player.
Knowledge science (free), Knowledge societies (1 point) Knowledge history (1 point) Lots of knowledge is always good.

Grace (free)
Vitality (2 points)

Magic affinity (4 points) I can't skip the chance to be able to use magic.^^
Flight (4 points) That is a dream come true
Sustenance (4 points) Not having to eat at all would be great, but that should be enough.
Lifespan (one free) Though I'm not sure if I really want this...

Money and Equipment (both free), should be useful.
Companion (4 point worth), I don't want to be lonely. They should also be an elf, and gender doesn't really matter, though it would be great if they were also agender. Their skills: Survivalist (2 points), Craftsman x2 (2 points) (someone who can actually do something should be usefull :smalltongue: ), Entertainer (free) (so we can make music together!), Flight (4 points), Grace (free), Specialised knowledge (free), (together we know everything! :smallwink:)

High magic setting, though the Wildlands also sound interesting.

I think I just spent way too much time with that. :smallbiggrin: (Though it made me think of other things, so that's actually good.)

[Mina Kobold]

I know right?

The other night I was told to go home early, and so I told my coworkers that I was going to pull a Sir Robin and run away.

Maybe it was because you didn't do it bravely enough?

Hmm, brave Lady Lentrax gallantly chickened out~

Could work, now we just need some coconuts, a castle model and the aforementioned tracts of land. :3


Hey I'm still a teen! quick someone gift me their ability to draw before I hit 20 :smalltongue:

I am too! And I have technically drawn at least one lesbian vampire. Just concept art for a comic idea wherein I don't think anyone's not GRSM, but the character is both a vampire and lesbian.

Anyway, learning to draw passably is easy. Just keep practising and studying endlessly for a decade or two! ^_^


Well they're not entirely work safe - but pt1 (https://24.media.tumblr.com/a7213418ae6096b92b65c5696181bf4f/tumblr_mzz0jrvQ971r3nwsxo2_1280.jpg), pt2 (https://31.media.tumblr.com/e8c2fe2a2a9a031d48d3b09c92b29d61/tumblr_mzz0jrvQ971r3nwsxo1_1280.jpg). Not too happy with #2, proportions are a bit off :/

Proportions are a bit off in places, but not bad at all in this Kobold's opinion. You're pretty good. ^_^



Anyway, apart from freezing when going iceskating with dad, extreme 1 minute long panic attack and nosebleed I think today was okay.

Panic and nosebleeds are no fun, but I hope it was very OK despite that. :smallsmile:


I find this very amusing. (http://ddriana.deviantart.com/art/Strong-Female-Pose-Dragon-Age-381583613)

I have no idea who any of the characters are, but it is very amusing. X3

[Jormengand]

some coconuts,

But which kind of swallow do we need to get them there? African, or European?

[Mono Vertigo]

The reason I chose angel and not the human was the ability to get to fourth magic affinity. What is this not maxing magic stuff xD

oh and ofc highmagic as well. Though the world ending threat sucks. Oh well atleast I'd be very good holy mage to counter balance my anxiety xD


Well, I assume that magic can't easily do what the other qualities do (else what would be the point of taking anything but magic?), and I believe I can make the best out of all this and develop my qualities over time! That's what I'm trying to do RL with relatively little resources, so just giving me half of all that would already make me feel like a god. "Oh my god, I can fly and conjure ropes. Oh my god. I'm a GOD!" "Dudette, half the people here can call forth the primal forces of the universe and shapeshift at will." "... but I can FLY and CONJURE ROPES. Oh, and I can lift really big rocks, too! I CAN DO SO MUCH" "Okay, huh, I'll let you have your own fun over there..."
Also if I'm not mistaken I'm the only universal translator so far. Being able to communicate accurately with everyone is pretty damn useful! Or that's just my diploma in Information and Communication talking.

EDIT: oh yeah, I noticed gender had to be binary. Best way to go about it is to ignore that part, I guess. It's just what I assume to be a game imagined with the best of intentions. Besides, when the premise is that your consciousness is sent to another world, that you get to make yourself a body following minor limitations, and that of all things, you can choose to be a earth elemental that flies, throws fire, and master illusions... why should we get hung up on playing only a male or female being and nothing else? As far as limitations go, "conforming to usual gender binary" isn't going to prevent game-breaking feats, far from it.


Pretty normal and uneventful. But I got some homework done and everyday not spent in crippling anxiety is win for me.
Then may you have more days like this one in this aspect. :smallsmile:

[SiuiS]

I'm okay, sorry, will explain later.

Ah, good. Was worried.


Hi I'm in 5th grade and I recently came out as bisexual, but I'm really worried about middle school and high school because I'm already really nerdy and I'm going to a middle school that has a reputation (although it's probably not all true) for physical bullying. All my friends and family have been really supportive but I'm super worried WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN?? :smalleek: :smallfrown:

Hi!

We can't actually tell you what's going to happen in middle or high school. There are so many variables involved, we would only lead you wrong. I'm sorry.


Appreciate the offer, but I'd rather not beyond what people already have. There are people in meatspace looking out for me though.


Oh, that's good. :small smile:



The relly annoying thing is that it's not even to do with gender identity. The trans specialist psychiatrist also does general practice anyway and just ugh. Bunch of morons :smallsigh:

Yeah. That's idiotic. I don't even... Ugh.



Surprised? :smallconfused: should I be offended? hehe :smalltongue:


It's an unfortunate part of the nature of logic that assume a maximum finite size for things, such that growth instead diminishes the prior forms to fit it in the box.

Suffice that, instead, I am celebrating that your becoming is expanding beyond what my limited mind could handle, again and again. They say optimists cannot be pleasantly surprised, and I'm learning that can't possibly be true.



So in other news I've been up all night listening to Korn and drawing lesbian vampires - it's like a flashback to my teenage years :smallamused:

Ah, the mortal enemy of the Wyfweres.
And yeah, I've done that >_<


Hey I'm still a teen! quick someone gift me their ability to draw before I hit 20 :smalltongue:
Also I thought knowing monty python was obligatory. certainly seemed that way around my friends in college :smallbiggrin:

Here ya go! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283685)

[Proud Tortoise]

I find this very amusing. (http://ddriana.deviantart.com/art/Strong-Female-Pose-Dragon-Age-381583613)

I feel like I'm missing the joke...


"You can either pick male or female." Now I'm sad. Ignoring that...

38(

[Mono Vertigo]

I feel like I'm missing the joke...


Well, notice the pose are rather ridiculous, and even anatomically improbable at times (sometimes because it shows both the butt and chest at the same time, sometimes because it's supposed to be sexy, and the rest of the times we have no idea what's the point of that pose)? They're poses very commonly used for "strong female" characters, with the egregious part being that they're never used for male characters, even when they appear in the same picture together.
So the balance is being fixed by making male characters adopt these ridiculous "feminine" poses that don't actually make them come off as strong at all; it's explained in the description. I suppose that the specific game these characters come from is not important, because I never played it, but I got it.

[Lauren]

Can I get some hugs? Apparently taking a walk to calm down doesn't work for me and instead leads to my mind running in circles about a topic I'd rather not think at all about. :/ And I don't even know what triggered it this time. Maybe my mind just decided that a month of not freaking out about it was long enough and it's time for another breakdown. :smallfrown:

And got me to think about hurting myself just to get the thoughts out of my head. Even if the pain would be just a short distraction and I'd regret it later. :smallfrown:

*hugs and more hugs* Stupid breakdowns.


Makes us two, except I'm younger and I'm almost sure any GP I'll meet won't understand why I'd want to be sterile if my SO is already completely unable, for two very different reasons, of making me pregnant.

Yeah, it's not the easiest thing to explain.


So long as I get some huge....
Tracts of land out of the deal, you can have the curtains. :smallamused:

I have the 'huge tracts of land' t-shirt. Perhaps unsurprisingly the lettering is quite stretched.

[SiuiS]

Well, notice the pose are rather ridiculous, and even anatomically improbable at times (sometimes because it shows both the butt and chest at the same time, sometimes because it's supposed to be sexy, and the rest of the times we have no idea what's the point of that pose)? They're poses very commonly used for "strong female" characters, with the egregious part being that they're never used for male characters, even when they appear in the same picture together.
So the balance is being fixed by making male characters adopt these ridiculous "feminine" poses that don't actually make them come off as strong at all; it's explained in the description. I suppose that the specific game these characters come from is not important, because I never played it, but I got it.

Showing chest and butt at te same time isn't that much a weird thing, actually. It's certainly possible, moreso than some of the random hippy poses for characters like Megara from Disney's Hercules that require one leg to be ten percent longer than the other and also constantly bent at the knee.

[TaiLiu]

This one is more ignorance than malice, I think. So setting the matter straight should make things better. I hope.
This brings up something I've been thinking about: how would you [all] feel about a GSRM education thread? Benefits of the thread:

Assuming that people cause harm to GSRM people due to ignorance rather than malice, this would do much to alleviate problems and make the forum a safer place.
People may not even know what LGBT is, especially since we've mutated it from the common four letter acronym to something longer. Something labeled "education thread" could potentially attract more people.
The LGBTAIitP is primarily a support thread, with education secondary. This potential thread is all about gaining knowledge.
The LGBTAIitP thread attracts people who are already GSRM and allies. The potential thread has the potential goal of creating more [allies].
Currently, we have two LGBT-themed threads. A third will continue our trend of forum domination. :smalltongue:


:smalleek: I....could?
You could!

I would like to apologize to everyone for my behavior yesterday. I have a bad temper and I lost it. I would especially like to apologize to Siuis for trying to bully her. I will try to keep my humors in check in the future.
Too bad, I was enjoying the discussion.

Hi I'm in 5th grade and I recently came out as bisexual, but I'm really worried about middle school and high school because I'm already really nerdy and I'm going to a middle school that has a reputation (although it's probably not all true) for physical bullying. All my friends and family have been really supportive but I'm super worried WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN?? :smalleek: :smallfrown:
As SiuiS said, we'd need a lot more information to form predictions.

Hello, thread! I thought I'd introduce myself as a fellow Legbit. :smallsmile:
Hello!

My Nisse-cat brought in a living bird last night and proceeded to play with it. It was too wounded to fly so I had to wring its neck (and Nisse gave me a "you broke my toy!" look) so I'm not feeling too well right now.

I think I'll abandon the discussion of male contraceptives. I get too emotional.
Ah, I'm sorry to hear that.

*Hugs.*

Well enough, I think. My world is collapsing around me as a swift action, but I'm holding out.
My condolences. On the bright side, individuals move through struggle!

Can I get some hugs? Apparently taking a walk to calm down doesn't work for me and instead leads to my mind running in circles about a topic I'd rather not think at all about. :/ And I don't even know what triggered it this time. Maybe my mind just decided that a month of not freaking out about it was long enough and it's time for another breakdown. :smallfrown:

And got me to think about hurting myself just to get the thoughts out of my head. Even if the pain would be just a short distraction and I'd regret it later. :smallfrown:
*Hugs.*

[Chess435]

@TaiLiu: I would suggest asking Roland first, this seems similar enough to possibly fall under the "One Topic, One Thread" rule.

[Coidzor]

ION, I have liberated my sisters' abandoned +2 Flaming Burst Hair Straighteners, Flip-flops of Shiny +3 and Underwear of (Quite Fortunately) Never Actually Having Been Worn.

Hair straighteners hurt if you burn your fingers on them, but I am gradually gaining EWP: Hair Straighteners, so there we go. Yay!

Hmm? Why does she have more than one flat iron? And why do you need more than one? :smallconfused:

Seems much more difficult to use with the TWF rules than blowdryers, and like you got maximum benefit by leaving one hand free anyway.

[TaiLiu]

@TaiLiu: I would suggest asking Roland first, this seems similar enough to possibly fall under the "One Topic, One Thread" rule.
Ah, good idea!

[SiuiS]

This brings up something I've been thinking about: how would you [all] feel about a GSRM education thread? Benefits of the thread:

Assuming that people cause harm to GSRM people due to ignorance rather than malice, this would do much to alleviate problems and make the forum a safer place.
People may not even know what LGBT is, especially since we've mutated it from the common four letter acronym to something longer. Something labeled "education thread" could potentially attract more people.
The LGBTAIitP is primarily a support thread, with education secondary. This potential thread is all about gaining knowledge.
The LGBTAIitP thread attracts people who are already GSRM and allies. The potential thread has the potential goal of creating more [allies].
Currently, we have two LGBT-themed threads. A third will continue our trend of forum domination. :smalltongue:


Some points.

One, we actually get most of our traffic from the LGBTA signature flags, and the "straight but not narrow" tags. Paradoxically, we lose a lot of people because when they show up they are heavily discouraged from asking questions because of the emotional grating it causes.

I think we would be better served by making a select few (coughKendercough) people into... Envoys, of a sort. Those who take new people aside and have pre-vetted articles and such which explain these issues, and a broad enough knowledge to articulate answers to questions as we go.

I also think 98% of this thread are going to be very bad at that job. It's a perspective issue; no amount of reasoned and accurate discussion is going to get through "you're wrong about everything and here is why". You have to be able to work from the other perspective – the 'gays are deviant' perspective – as if it were accurate. Poke holes from inside and show the bad logic and and faulty science which is what establishes the viewpoint as correct, but show it from the position of someone trying to defend that position.


Hmm? Why does she have more than one flat iron? And why do you need more than one? :smallconfused:

Seems much more difficult to use with the TWF rules than blowdryers, and like you got maximum benefit by leaving one hand free anyway.

I almost had an answer but then I realized it was flat iron not curling iron.

Uh.


Because curly hair fights back? You can only get the proper DPS with dual wielding.

[Jormengand]

Hmm? Why does she have more than one flat iron? And why do you need more than one? :smallconfused:

(I call them hair straighteners even if it's only actually one thing. I think a lot of people do that, too.)

Anyway, everyone knows that TWF sucks for most classes anyway. I mean, rogues and rangers can pull it off, but otherwise... nah.

[Mina Kobold]

Showing chest and butt at te same time isn't that much a weird thing, actually. It's certainly possible, moreso than some of the random hippy poses for characters like Megara from Disney's Hercules that require one leg to be ten percent longer than the other and also constantly bent at the knee.

The boobs and butt pose (I believe coined by Ami Angelwings of Eschergirls fame) is oftentimes either impossible for most people to do, since it requires seeing both breasts and both butt cheeks from the same angle, or so impractical that it makes little sense for the situation, though (seriously, the amount of times I've seen images showing someone hitting a volleyball or sleeping while their chest and butt are nearly facing the same direction is scary. ._.)

Just trying it, I can get in a position that would possibly show that from the right angle. I required a wardrobe to push against and it was very very uncomfortable*, but it's apparently a very good stance to fight in. :smalltongue:

Megara's poses are equally terrible, though. Seriously, am I weird for trying to make most characters' limbs match in length, Disney? >_<

*That's not to say others can't easily do it, just that it's silly for the majority of women in Fantasy and Superhero Comics to end up like that when fighting. Especially when men don't.

[razovor]

Exams are finished. Lectures start again tomorrow. Might be able to follow this thread again. Don't know, will try. Lots of nice people on here.

Got depressed again on Friday, threw one of my cups into the kitchen wall. Spent the next day depressed and angry most of the time. Kinda okay now.

How are all of you lovely people? Anyone need a hug?

[SiuiS]

The boobs and butt pose (I believe coined by Ami Angelwings of Eschergirls fame) is oftentimes either impossible for most people to do, since it requires seeing both breasts and both butt cheeks from the same angle, or so impractical that it makes little sense for the situation, though (seriously, the amount of times I've seen images showing someone hitting a volleyball or sleeping while their chest and butt are nearly facing the same direction is scary. ._.)

Just trying it, I can get in a position that would possibly show that from the right angle. I required a wardrobe to push against and it was very very uncomfortable*, but it's apparently a very good stance to fight in. :smalltongue:

Megara's poses are equally terrible, though. Seriously, am I weird for trying to make most characters' limbs match in length, Disney? >_<

*That's not to say others can't easily do it, just that it's silly for the majority of women in Fantasy and Superhero Comics to end up like that when fighting. Especially when men don't.

I dunno. I can do the B&B with ease (although I will not pretend it ever has use). Disney however, yeah. I saw a picture of a woman, standing, that looked of. Attempting that particular feet together knees apart toes pointed in one shoulder up one hip up?

Actually, maybe that explains my crippling back pain and migraines...

[Mono Vertigo]

Yeah, can't do the B&B pose (alright, my spine is closer to brooms when it comes to my contorting ability, and yoga makes me cry, but still) relaxed, I can't really imagine it helping during action scenes.
My cat can do that pose, but again, he can also lick his butt.
If you can do that and it's not a symptom of a medical condition, then good for you!

[Proud Tortoise]

Exams are finished. Lectures start again tomorrow. Might be able to follow this thread again. Don't know, will try. Lots of nice people on here.

Got depressed again on Friday, threw one of my cups into the kitchen wall. Spent the next day depressed and angry most of the time. Kinda okay now.

How are all of you lovely people? Anyone need a hug?

I remember you! 38)

[KenderWizard]

Adam and Eve? Well I guess that's why it's the bible and not the straightble :smallcool:


I LOVE THIS! I am using this, like, all the time. Yes.




I think we would be better served by making a select few (coughKendercough) people into... Envoys, of a sort. Those who take new people aside and have pre-vetted articles and such which explain these issues, and a broad enough knowledge to articulate answers to questions as we go.


I'm flattered that I'm apparently your first choice for this introductory-LGBT+ job, and I'd be very happy to do it. I am NOT volunteering for attempting to argue around people who have hateful or bigoted -- or even just disapproving -- opinions on the matter, whether or not we decide on an education/discussion thread to support our support thread. But as far as "Hi new person, if you have any questions, ask Kender!" goes, I am fine with that.

[Lentrax]

I'm flattered that I'm apparently your first choice for this introductory-LGBT+ job, and I'd be very happy to do it. I am NOT volunteering for attempting to argue around people who have hateful or bigoted -- or even just disapproving -- opinions on the matter, whether or not we decide on an education/discussion thread to support our support thread. But as far as "Hi new person, if you have any questions, ask Kender!" goes, I am fine with that.

Perhaps tack this on to the end of our into post? Tamsin, you feel like finding a somewhat appropriate spot for it?

Although let us take a moment to consider the irony that we putting a Kender in a position of trust and responsibility. And that said Kender will be responsible for greeting new people.

A Kender.

Granted, we adore this Kender and love her to death, but...

I love it. As much as if not just a teensy bit more than I love you.

[TaiLiu]

Some points.

One, we actually get most of our traffic from the LGBTA signature flags, and the "straight but not narrow" tags. Paradoxically, we lose a lot of people because when they show up they are heavily discouraged from asking questions because of the emotional grating it causes.

I also think 98% of this thread are going to be very bad at that job. It's a perspective issue; no amount of reasoned and accurate discussion is going to get through "you're wrong about everything and here is why". You have to be able to work from the other perspective – the 'gays are deviant' perspective – as if it were accurate. Poke holes from inside and show the bad logic and and faulty science which is what establishes the viewpoint as correct, but show it from the position of someone trying to defend that position.
Okay.

I think we would be better served by making a select few (coughKendercough) people into... Envoys, of a sort. Those who take new people aside and have pre-vetted articles and such which explain these issues, and a broad enough knowledge to articulate answers to questions as we go.

I'm flattered that I'm apparently your first choice for this introductory-LGBT+ job, and I'd be very happy to do it. I am NOT volunteering for attempting to argue around people who have hateful or bigoted -- or even just disapproving -- opinions on the matter, whether or not we decide on an education/discussion thread to support our support thread. But as far as "Hi new person, if you have any questions, ask Kender!" goes, I am fine with that.
We have that already, no? It's at the top of our thread, in a spoiler box.

[noparlpf]

Did I mention I slept with a girl? We even did it in front of other people. How scandalous.

...

Yeah, my friend and I fell asleep on the floor in our other friend's room.

[TaiLiu]

Did I mention I slept with a girl? We even did it in front of other people. How scandalous.

...

Yeah, my friend and I fell asleep on the floor in our other friend's room.
Gasp! You... You didn't...!

[Reinboom]

Even if there isn't another topic for inquisitive style questioning, I have an issue that you all might help me solve:

(This is related to languages that have more burned in gender rules to it)
In the game that I work on we try to avoid referencing the player directly. In a few select cases (notably when referencing other players), this tends to cause gender rules of certain languages (such as the -a vs -o in Spanish) to come up.

Currently, we don't hand around a player's gender at all. We never even ask for a person's gender outside of places where we must gather it legally.

Unfortunately, when referencing a player this means that we have to make assumptions. We currently end up defaulting to masculine when there's no other choice or the alternative would twist the language much too awkwardly.

That problem is solvable though. The question I have goes a step further. For those of you who do not identify with either female or male genders, such as agender (I believe - I'm a bit hazy with terms) and communicate in a language in gender rules... what would you expect of words that change extension based on gender when addressing you?

[CurlyKitGirl]

*pokes*
Not dead yet, though my internet was. Good thing I saved the fashion things I was working on. It'll still take a while to post because as I began researching things (mostly clothes for . . . God, I'm sorry, I forgot your name, so I'll just call you Deity of Cool) for Deity of Cool I kept writing up terms and things that I realised I needed to go back and define.
So I was working on my little glossary of terms about the time of the Great Laptop Death.
It's still in progress Deity of Cool, and it'll be up soon as; I just have several things on the go at once.

But if, in the three weeks I've been absent (plus however long since you requested fashion advice) you've thought of some questions/things you want please say.

[SiuiS]

We have that already, no? It's at the top of our thread, in a spoiler box.

Not really, know. We have a spoiler box that says, basically, "ask anyone in this thread. Anyone at all. They've all volunteered" which means either people ask publicly and get yelled at or ask in private and view is as two-faced.

Articles with clear, nonbiased language and explanations, which we can say "we aren't going to discuss anything these don't cover" would work because it basically allows someone like Kender to pre-discuss the basics with someone, once so it isn't tedious, and get folks up to speed. As it stands now, we have that confusing cliquish feel that some of is worry about.

I also find it funny that most of us respond the exact same way to most questions, further enhancing that sense of exclusion simply because we all have already discussed things. Human social patterns are silly.


Did I mention I slept with a girl? We even did it in front of other people. How scandalous.

...

Yeah, my friend and I fell asleep on the floor in our other friend's room.

And this is why ace membership cards are flammable. Sorry.
Don't worry though. You can keep the gun.


*pokes*
Not dead yet, though my internet was. Good thing I saved the fashion things I was working on. It'll still take a while to post because as I began researching things (mostly clothes for . . . God, I'm sorry, I forgot your name, so I'll just call you Deity of Cool) for Deity of Cool I kept writing up terms and things that I realised I needed to go back and define.
So I was working on my little glossary of terms about the time of the Great Laptop Death.
It's still in progress Deity of Cool, and it'll be up soon as; I just have several things on the go at once.

But if, in the three weeks I've been absent (plus however long since you requested fashion advice) you've thought of some questions/things you want please say.

Some things are worth the wait.

[noparlpf]

Also I just pierced my ear. Spontaneously. Without thinking about it. And with a needle. Tomorrow I think I'll buy an actual earring to use instead of this temporary piece of steel wire.

[TaiLiu]

Not really, know. We have a spoiler box that says, basically, "ask anyone in this thread. Anyone at all. They've all volunteered" which means either people ask publicly and get yelled at or ask in private and view is as two-faced.
Hm? No, I'm speaking of the spoiler under 'Private Consultation.'

Articles with clear, nonbiased language and explanations, which we can say "we aren't going to discuss anything these don't cover" would work because it basically allows someone like Kender to pre-discuss the basics with someone, once so it isn't tedious, and get folks up to speed. As it stands now, we have that confusing cliquish feel that some of us worry about.
Now that you bring it up, I always thought it was strange that this thread lacked informative links on GSRM matters - which is why I suggested an educational thread; the first post would have all of those article links.

I also find it funny that most of us respond the exact same way to most questions, further enhancing that sense of exclusion simply because we all have already discussed things. Human social patterns are silly.
And predictable!

Also I just pierced my ear. Spontaneously. Without thinking about it. And with a needle. Tomorrow I think I'll buy an actual earring to use instead of this temporary piece of steel wire.
Wait, by yourself? You pierced yourself with a needle and jammed yourself with steel?

[noparlpf]

Wait, by yourself? You pierced yourself with a needle and jammed yourself with steel?

Piercings freak me out so I decided to pierce my ear. Yes, by myself. With a leatherworking needle that I usually use to repair torn shoes.

[Eldest]

Piercings freak me out so I decided to pierce my ear. Yes, by myself. With a leatherworking needle that I usually use to repair torn shoes.

Please say you made sure it was sterile and such? :smalleek:

[TaiLiu]

Piercings freak me out so I decided to pierce my ear. Yes, by myself. With a leatherworking needle that I usually use to repair torn shoes.
Eek. You took all proper precautions, right?

[noparlpf]

Please say you made sure it was sterile and such? :smalleek:

I used fire and alcohol. I'm a fourth-year Bio major, I have heard of germs once or twice in my life. :smalltongue:

[CurlyKitGirl]

Some things are worth the wait.

Okay? I don't really know how to respond to this except maybe 'thanks'.


Also I just pierced my ear. Spontaneously. Without thinking about it. And with a needle. Tomorrow I think I'll buy an actual earring to use instead of this temporary piece of steel wire.

Salt water. Warm salt water. Wash your piercing in it and the wire. If you haven't already do it now. Don't buy any piercing cleaner liquid either when you get your earring, it's just fancy salt water.
Aside from that you'll be fine. I pierced my own ears when I was thirteen or so (my second set of piercings) on impulse. With a pair of earrings. Got stuck halfway through the second hole so I had to go downstairs and get help. Mum was nauseous when she saw it, so it was lucky my aunt was there to give the final push.
You'll be fine as long as you remember to clean your piercing twice a day. Or once. Or even if you forget occasionally.
I'm assuming you pierced the lobe? In that case you'll be fine with sporadic cleaning. Cartilage needs a little more care.
Go for silver/silver coloured metal. It works with everyone. Hoops can be a bitch, so just go for studs.

[Eldest]

I used fire and alcohol. I'm a fourth-year Bio major, I have heard of germs once or twice in my life. :smalltongue:

Maybe even three times? (Btw, saving you de-germed it through fire and booze might be worrisome to random people. :P)

[SiuiS]

That's a good point on the education thread, but it still strikes me as the kinda thing tha should just be linked repeatedly in the OP. I dunno.

And yeah, private consultation; 90% of the thread volunteering for 90% of possible topics...


I used fire and alcohol. I'm a fourth-year Bio major, I have heard of germs once or twice in my life. :smalltongue:

I dunno. American school system, I'd expect you to learn about, say, cells and that they exist in a college bio course.


Okay?


I mean, you said you were delayed. It was a, an acknowledgement and an affirmative? Mostly you weren't talking to me but I was still interested and said I would wait.

[noparlpf]

Maybe even three times? (Btw, saving you de-germed it through fire and booze might be worrisome to random people. :P)

Well, rubbing alcohol. (I only added fire because my friend said to and it sounded fun.) I'm still too young to buy booze in this dumb country. Even cider.


I dunno. American school system, I'd expect you to learn about, say, cells and that they exist in a college bio course.

Good universities actually have decent classes. Some of the intro-level classes drag a bit, but once you're in higher-level stuff it's not bad.

[CurlyKitGirl]

I mean, you said you were delayed. It was a, an acknowledgement and an affirmative? Mostly you weren't talking to me but I was still interested and said I would wait.

I know, I just think it's a bit rude not to reply to someone who quote you, especially when what they say implies a compliment or anticipation. So I was acknowledging an acknowledgement.

Also while I was raised to naturally know female fashion and have given general advice to males and females, I'm venturing down the road of ambiguous/ftm fashion as well out of personal interest.
So . . . any males/former males/ftm/ambiguous stylists out there willing to either do a Women's/Female's/Ambiguous/General Fashion thing or provide tips?
Tips for me if nothing else.

[Proud Tortoise]

That problem is solvable though. The question I have goes a step further. For those of you who do not identify with either female or male genders, such as agender (I believe - I'm a bit hazy with terms) and communicate in a language in gender rules... what would you expect of words that change extension based on gender when addressing you?

I have no preference for pronouns or orthography. I would probably expect masculine just because that's sort of the default (at least in French) but yeah no preference.


Also I just pierced my ear. Spontaneously. Without thinking about it. And with a needle. Tomorrow I think I'll buy an actual earring to use instead of this temporary piece of steel wire.

O_O I wouldn't want to do that, it might give me ideas...

[SiuiS]

Well, rubbing alcohol. (I only added fire because my friend said to and it sounded fun.) I'm still too young to buy booze in this dumb country. Even cider.

Yeah, that's the action movie method. It technically works, but it leaves soot and most folks just don't realize contaminants aren't always germs.

Fire would get rid of stuff and then you could wash it in isopropyl alcohol, but I believe the best way to handle it it alcohol alone? Emergency field medicine uses a small shallow bowl to soak the thread as well, For stitches. I mean, otherwise it's like putting tap water ice cubes into your ritzy bottled water; you're dragging dirty thread through an otherwise sanitary wound.



Good universities actually have decent classes. Some of the intro-level classes drag a bit, but once you're in higher-level stuff it's not bad.

Yeah, that's true. It's not that there aren't good schooling choices available. I'm just petty and vindictive toward our system. :smallsmile:


I know, I just think it's a bit rude not to reply to someone who quote you, especially when what they say implies a compliment or anticipation. So I was acknowledging an acknowledgement.


Oh! Okay. Uh...

Crap. I'm not sure how to handle this. Will this... Just create a constant recursive loop of politeness? Well, uh, I guess I should... Not respond to any responses?

[CurlyKitGirl]

Oh! Okay. Uh...

Crap. I'm not sure how to handle this. Will this... Just create a constant recursive loop of politeness? Well, uh, I guess I should... Not respond to any responses?

And thus sixty percent of all conversations involving a British person devolve into polite nothings and conversations about the weather. And then slightly awkward silence until enough time has passed for a mutual parting. In silence.

Or: ask fairly intrusive question to someone about whom you know relatively little, and certainly very few recent events. Like so:

So, how've things been LGBTetc.-wise with you? Had a good year so far with [whatever]?

Or: attempt to actually make a conversation by trying to continue on a topic already mentioned. Like so:

Anything in particular you're looking forward to fashionwise? [This tangentially relates to the first topic in the conversation, but can easily turn onto current events and yes, the weather. Every conversation in the UK will eventually be about the weather. Guaranteed.]

Or: Look desperately around for someone who can be dragged into the nonversation in order to make it a conversation.

Given that the latter inevitably involves talking to someone else and possibly perpetuating the Cycle of Polite Nothings the typical Brit will usually settle for Polite Nothings or wait until the silence has reached a certain length, at which point they will depart with a "It was nice talking to you," even if you'd barely exchanged twenty words with that person.

[SiuiS]

And thus sixty percent of all conversations involving a British person devolve into polite nothings and conversations about the weather. And then slightly awkward silence until enough time has passed for a mutual parting. In silence.

Oh, you're British? I always thought you were North American.

[/quote]Or: ask fairly intrusive question to someone about whom you know relatively little, and certainly very few recent events. Like so:

So, how've things been LGBTetc.-wise with you? Had a good year so far with [whatever]?[/quote]

Oh, you know. Terrible. I'm basically living a pseudo-lie in that the only actual LGBT stuff I do is beam whenever someone slips and gets the pronouns right and having awkward discussions. I have this hugely gay friend who kept accidentally segueing the conversation into trans topics a few days ago. I may have given myself away, seeing as I was drunk and flipped him off for something. Or it might have been a V, I get international with alcohol—


Oh, hey, I meet the international criteria now! Huzzah!


Or: attempt to actually make a conversation by trying to continue on a topic already mentioned. Like so:

Anything in particular you're looking forward to fashionwise? [This tangentially relates to the first topic in the conversation, but can easily turn onto current events and yes, the weather. Every conversation in the UK will eventually be about the weather. Guaranteed.]

Ooh, good question!

Really, no. I have disparate knowledge, I'm just looking for the paradigm that makes it all click. Mostly it's less fashion knowledge in general, and how to apply it to me, that I'm looking for.

Need to get in the physiology aspects, though.



Or: Look desperately around for someone who can be dragged into the nonversation in order to make it a conversation.

Given that the latter inevitably involves talking to someone else and possibly perpetuating the Cycle of Polite Nothings the typical Brit will usually settle for Polite Nothings or wait until the silence has reached a certain length, at which point they will depart with a "It was nice talking to you," even if you'd barely exchanged twenty words with that person.

Heh~

Well, I had fun. And, I'm a narcissist! So you could leave the conversation at this point and I'll probably carry on enough for the both of us~
Thanks!

[TaiLiu]

That's a good point on the education thread, but it still strikes me as the kinda thing tha should just be linked repeatedly in the OP. I dunno.
Maybe, but there are other benefits of an education thread, too.

And yeah, private consultation; 90% of the thread volunteering for 90% of possible topics...
Heh.

Oh, hey, I meet the international criteria now! Huzzah!
You are now free to celebrate the holiday. Here's your permit.

[tassaron]

A voice recording I did tonight. (http://picosong.com/YqBm/)

This is from a month of developing the voice (resonance, pitch) back in July/August, then several months letting that become my natural speaking voice so it sounds very strong and consistent, and just now I'm starting to work on my inflection which I think is the last thing I really gotta do to be happy with it.

Feel free to give specific advice and criticism

[Eldest]

Also while I was raised to naturally know female fashion and have given general advice to males and females, I'm venturing down the road of ambiguous/ftm fashion as well out of personal interest.
So . . . any males/former males/ftm/ambiguous stylists out there willing to either do a Women's/Female's/Ambiguous/General Fashion thing or provide tips?
Tips for me if nothing else.

Male, and likely to never use it, but I like learning new things. So can't help you with gathering the knowledge, but I'd be interested in learning it once ya got it.

[Eirala]

A voice recording I did tonight. (http://picosong.com/YqBm/)

(...)

Feel free to give specific advice and criticism

I really don't have any but i wanted to let you know that it sounds perfect to me. I wish my voice was a fraction as awesome :3

[Miriel]

A voice recording I did tonight. (http://picosong.com/YqBm/)

This is from a month of developing the voice (resonance, pitch) back in July/August, then several months letting that become my natural speaking voice so it sounds very strong and consistent, and just now I'm starting to work on my inflection which I think is the last thing I really gotta do to be happy with it.

Feel free to give specific advice and criticism
I sounds like a success :smallsmile: (I'd love to sound like that!)

Hum, I should go back to actively practicing my voice. My voice is passing-ish from the start (it's not obviously giving me away), so I never put as much effort as I should, but it is horrible and awkward anyway...

[Eldest]

A voice recording I did tonight. (http://picosong.com/YqBm/)

This is from a month of developing the voice (resonance, pitch) back in July/August, then several months letting that become my natural speaking voice so it sounds very strong and consistent, and just now I'm starting to work on my inflection which I think is the last thing I really gotta do to be happy with it.

Feel free to give specific advice and criticism

*shrug* Is a female voice. Can't give you any advice on how to improve it, sorry. :/

[Astrella]

A voice recording I did tonight. (http://picosong.com/YqBm/)

This is from a month of developing the voice (resonance, pitch) back in July/August, then several months letting that become my natural speaking voice so it sounds very strong and consistent, and just now I'm starting to work on my inflection which I think is the last thing I really gotta do to be happy with it.

Feel free to give specific advice and criticism

Okay, I'm hella jealous. The only thing I can think of is that you sounded a bit monotone?

Also do you mind if I ask how you trained your voice like this / what aides you used?

[SiuiS]

A voice recording I did tonight. (http://picosong.com/YqBm/)

This is from a month of developing the voice (resonance, pitch) back in July/August, then several months letting that become my natural speaking voice so it sounds very strong and consistent, and just now I'm starting to work on my inflection which I think is the last thing I really gotta do to be happy with it.

Feel free to give specific advice and criticism

Cannot flash player :(


Okay, I'm hella jealous. The only thing I can think of is that you sounded a bit monotone?

Also do you mind if I ask how you trained your voice like this / what aides you used?

Yes, please.

[Zorg]

Also while I was raised to naturally know female fashion and have given general advice to males and females, I'm venturing down the road of ambiguous/ftm fashion as well out of personal interest.
So . . . any males/former males/ftm/ambiguous stylists out there willing to either do a Women's/Female's/Ambiguous/General Fashion thing or provide tips?
Tips for me if nothing else.

Was there something particular you were looking for? I can go on at length about how to wear a suit but not much else really.


Feel free to give specific advice and criticism

I think I'm going to join in asking you for advice, you sound fantastic :smallsmile:

[Philemonite]

I think education thread is a good idea. Most people are afraid to ask questions, usually starting with "I don't want to interrupt, but I have a question" or something similar.
Alternatively, we could add support and education to the title and try to make the OP more education-y.:smalltongue:

Did anyone ask the mods (read Roland) about this idea?

[Zorg]

There's a difference between "we'll answer questions" and "education" - one is being open to ideas, the other is putting (especially if education is added to this thread) the onus on us to defend ourselves. Most people here are happy with the former, but how many are actually happy with the second?
If education is added to this thread I know it will not be a place of support for very long - can we expect triggering topics to be tagged properly or the thread not become laden with problematic language? Also any "education" issues will butt pretty hard against politics and religion.

[Lix Lorn]

Given that the latter inevitably involves talking to someone else and possibly perpetuating the Cycle of Polite Nothings the typical Brit will usually settle for Polite Nothings or wait until the silence has reached a certain length, at which point they will depart with a "It was nice talking to you," even if you'd barely exchanged twenty words with that person.
This is true.

The once or twice I've been addressed in conversation on the street have been the most disturbing situations of my life. O_o
(One was actually terrifying)

[Asta Kask]

This is true.

The once or twice I've been addressed in conversation on the street have been the most disturbing situations of my life. O_o
(One was actually terrifying)

What happened?

[Asta Kask]

A voice recording I did tonight. (http://picosong.com/YqBm/)

This is from a month of developing the voice (resonance, pitch) back in July/August, then several months letting that become my natural speaking voice so it sounds very strong and consistent, and just now I'm starting to work on my inflection which I think is the last thing I really gotta do to be happy with it.

Feel free to give specific advice and criticism

Yep, that's a girl. Don't know what else to say, really.

[Lix Lorn]

What happened?
Nothing interested. He was just being... very very familiar with me. Asking about me and where I lived and stuff, said he'd used to live up there.
(I lied about the street instinctively)

[noparlpf]

Yeah, that's the action movie method. It technically works, but it leaves soot and most folks just don't realize contaminants aren't always germs.

Fire would get rid of stuff and then you could wash it in isopropyl alcohol, but I believe the best way to handle it it alcohol alone? Emergency field medicine uses a small shallow bowl to soak the thread as well, For stitches. I mean, otherwise it's like putting tap water ice cubes into your ritzy bottled water; you're dragging dirty thread through an otherwise sanitary wound.

I washed it with alcohol before and after, so no soot to worry about.


Yeah, that's true. It's not that there aren't good schooling choices available. I'm just petty and vindictive toward our system. :smallsmile:

I'm totally with you when it comes to the public school system. It's rubbish.


A voice recording I did tonight. (http://picosong.com/YqBm/)

This is from a month of developing the voice (resonance, pitch) back in July/August, then several months letting that become my natural speaking voice so it sounds very strong and consistent, and just now I'm starting to work on my inflection which I think is the last thing I really gotta do to be happy with it.

Feel free to give specific advice and criticism

Sounds good to me if you're going for feminine voice.

[Delusion]

My name change went through ^^

So happy.

[tassaron]

Okay, I'm hella jealous. The only thing I can think of is that you sounded a bit monotone?
Yep. The monotony is the thing I'm mainly working on now. Everything else I have down (because I used it all the time for months, as I said) but now I'm working on varying the tone and pitch and giving it that final quality that makes it sound really great.

I mean, it definitely passes without that stuff anyway (telemarketers are validating!) but I wasn't satisfied with it. Thus, back to the drawing board. :)


Also do you mind if I ask how you trained your voice like this / what aides you used?

Are you kind of person who's inspired by transition timelines? I have a voice transition timeline. (http://picosong.com/Ykyv/) I've never heard one before from anyone else and that sort of thing would've been nice to find before I started... so maybe it'll help.

I'm not generally a fan of Reddit, but it's the only voice resource I could ever find that made sense to me. Here's a Getting Started (http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/1ske7b/mtf_voice_training_regimen/) type thing (I didn't use this because it didn't exist when I started, but it lists what I did anyway). The things I mostly used were the resources in the weekly voice threads (http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/1w2uhu/friday_night_voice_thread_97/). This thread has words in it, too. (http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/zhia5/voice_is_the_most_impossible_thing_ever/)

Specific things I did, from memory: use pitch determining software to see where my range was and figure out where I wanted it to be, then start swallowing my adam's apple to figure out resonance (and THAT'S the part that REALLY takes practice but is by far the most important, in my opinion). I didn't worry about anything else at first, just grinded grinded grinded those two things for ages until my natural speaking voice was androgynous. And now, I'm trying to push androgynous over to distinctly female... but I can't give help with that yet, and I wouldn't worry about it anyway. IMO, giving myself the months of space from voice training just to let my natural voice become androgynous really helped out a lot, because now I'm just focusing on ONE thing instead of three. :)

And despite the fact that I'd been hearing that old horrible voice for such a long time, my brain has quickly adapted to identifying my new voice as 'me' and that one as 'someone else'. I don't know about you, but I had some terrible dysphoria surrounding my voice (graphic violent thoughts concerning my neck when I spoke, a lot of the time) and it's a pretty amazing feeling being free from that and actually sounding like me.

Good luck.

[Asta Kask]

My name change went through ^^

So happy.


I took her name from her and gave her a new one. And thus in some sense a re-birth.

Ursula Le Guin, The Farthest Shore

Congratulations!

[Serpentine]

Watching a Bones episode with a transsexual victim. So far it's cringeworthy and has a lot of mistakes and Booth, in particular, is being an arse about it... but at least he was corrected when he made a particularly bad faux pas? Hopefully it'll get better...

[noparlpf]

My name change went through ^^

So happy.

Congrats!


Watching a Bones episode with a transsexual victim. So far it's cringeworthy and has a lot of mistakes and Booth, in particular, is being an arse about it... but at least he was corrected when he made a particularly bad faux pas? Hopefully it'll get better...

Oh yeah, I remember that one. It was fairly bad.

[Mono Vertigo]

My name change went through ^^

So happy.

Congratulations! :smallsmile:

[SiuiS]

My name change went through ^^

So happy.

For a minute there, I was like "but wasn't your name Delusion before?"


Watching a Bones episode with a transsexual victim. So far it's cringeworthy and has a lot of mistakes and Booth, in particular, is being an arse about it... but at least he was corrected when he made a particularly bad faux pas? Hopefully it'll get better...

I actually thought they did a good job. Booth comported himself like someone who was frustrated but knew that human rights were involved and didn't know which eggshells to walk on. Brenna has the social graces of a mule cross bred with a chimpanzee and taught about 4chan. So, par for course.

[Serpentine]

The episode...

Cons: The descriptions of transsexuality are wrong, inaccurate, cliched and/or full of wank. The science of the SRS is dodgy at best (6 years of transitioning, starting with surgery rather than HRT, and completely unrecognisable right at the start? Possible, I suppose, especially with plastic surgery, but I expect unlikely). The "confusion" over the victim's sex is needlessly exaggerated. Booth is a jerk about it. I'd be willing to bet aspects of it would be pretty triggering.

Pros: The worst insensitivities are corrected. People are called on flagrant misgendering, particularly references to "real women", though it varies from person to person. The trans woman is more than just a trans woman, but a person with other facets. Not everyone is a jerk about it, and one of the victim's relatives in particular was really lovely. A spoiler relating to the reason for the murder:
It wasn't because she was trans.

Conclusion: For cis people without a high level of knowledge on the subject, or possibly even with some prejudices against it, it's pretty good. For anyone who knows stuff about it, it's cringeworthy. For actual trans people... I think it could be worse than cringeworthy. They tried, but I feel like they didn't try as hard as they could've - Bones should've had more to say on the subject, more that was right, more accurate, specifically.

[Asta Kask]

German olympic uniform for sochi seen as pro-gay protest. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-olympic-uniform-for-sochi-seen-as-pro-gay-protest-a-925756.html)

Personally I think they're just trying to blind the competition. They act as a Color Spray.

[Heliomance]

So I did a voice sample too. (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mhYZ66X1AR) I'm not anything like as good, and it gets worse towards the end. Ick.

Warning: Atrocious sound quality.

[Asta Kask]

So I did a voice sample too. (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mhYZ66X1AR) I'm not anything like as good, and it gets worse towards the end. Ick.

Warning: Atrocious sound quality.

Yep, that's a girl.

[Heliomance]

Wait, what? Seriously? Even at the end?

O_o

I seriously did not think that sounded convincing. Androgynous at best, devolving to distinctly male towards the end, I thought.

[Asta Kask]

Well, maybe I have bad judgment. Yeah, you lost it at the end, but at the beginning it was definitely convincing.

[Mina Kobold]

They tried, but I feel like they didn't try as hard as they could've - Bones should've had more to say on the subject, more that was right, more accurate, specifically.

That's something that's been bugging me for a while with a lot of series lately, they could easily research the elements they don't personally know much about, but they so rarely do. Been noticing it a lot in another series with David Boreanaz, Angel, with languages. Including one case where two characters spoke nonsense-supposed-to-sound-Korean and one spoke actual Korean (the actor knew the language). I really don't want to have to hope for only mostly wrong information when it comes to anyone outside of the assumed audience, be that PoC, GRSM people or people who just speak a language other than English. ;_;

Seriously, I'm trying to read up on people's experiences with disabilities, cultural diaspora, history and dead languages for a webcomic, yet a big-budget series can't bother bringing in a trans person to make sure they're at least partially accurate? >_<


German olympic uniform for sochi seen as pro-gay protest. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-olympic-uniform-for-sochi-seen-as-pro-gay-protest-a-925756.html)

Personally I think they're just trying to blind the competition. They act as a Color Spray.

Reminds me a bit of Dschingis Khan, though I certainly hope it's at least a sign that they are not in favour of the atrocities.


So I did a voice sample too. (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mhYZ66X1AR) I'm not anything like as good, and it gets worse towards the end. Ick.

Warning: Atrocious sound quality.

I have no idea what you're saying (having a hearing impairment is not fun in that regard), but you sound very nice and girly to me. Accent's quite English (apologies for my inability to place accents better than that, sorry. m(_ _)m ), as I suppose I should expect ( ^_^' ), and you sound like a lovely person to talk to. :smallsmile:

Noticed a slight dip towards the end, but still very far from bad. I don't think I'd misgender you if I had heard you without knowing your gender, at least. ^_^

[tassaron]

So I did a voice sample too. (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mhYZ66X1AR) I'm not anything like as good, and it gets worse towards the end. Ick.

Warning: Atrocious sound quality.

Yeah, I might be biased by the quality hiding subtle aspects of your voice, but that honestly sounds pretty good to me. You do get a bit worse at the end, but... that's really not as bad as you probably think it is. We're our own worst critics.

I can't really think of specific advice except keep practicing. I didn't confine my practice to sessions, I used it all the time without worrying about what it sounded like, and that did wonders for making my voice consistent. Practice is 90% of voice training. :)

BTW, I saw your photos earlier in the thread and you looked great too!

[Asta Kask]

Also, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWPAUimefCg) needs to be posted at least once per thread.

[Coidzor]

Also I just pierced my ear. Spontaneously. Without thinking about it. And with a needle. Tomorrow I think I'll buy an actual earring to use instead of this temporary piece of steel wire.

Don't do that. :smalleek: You're supposed to sanitize it first.


I used fire and alcohol. I'm a fourth-year Bio major, I have heard of germs once or twice in my life. :smalltongue:

Then how'd you do it without thinking? :smallconfused: :smalltongue:

[SMEE]

Since we are on the subject of recordings, I will post a rather recent one to once more torture you all with my silly accent.

http://www.smeenet.org/SillyRecording.wav

I need to do a new one, though, one without so many mic problems. >.>
I just need to find something interesting to say. :smallamused:

[noparlpf]

German olympic uniform for sochi seen as pro-gay protest. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-olympic-uniform-for-sochi-seen-as-pro-gay-protest-a-925756.html)

Personally I think they're just trying to blind the competition. They act as a Color Spray.

Eek. I might be colorblind now.


So I did a voice sample too. (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mhYZ66X1AR) I'm not anything like as good, and it gets worse towards the end. Ick.

Warning: Atrocious sound quality.

To be brutally honest, it sounds a bit forced to me.


Don't do that. :smalleek: You're supposed to sanitize it first.

Then how'd you do it without thinking? :smallconfused: :smalltongue:

You shouldn't have to think to know to sterilise things before putting them in your body. Isn't that common sense?

[Coidzor]

You shouldn't have to think to know to sterilise things before putting them in your body. Isn't that common sense?

Generally I have to think in order to get the supplies needed to sterilize a needle because I don't keep them together in one ready to grab kit. I'm guessing from your statement that you do. :smalltongue:

[Delusion]

Congratulations!


Congrats!



Oh yeah, I remember that one. It was fairly bad.


Congratulations! :smallsmile:


For a minute there, I was like "but wasn't your name Delusion before?"



Thank you all ^^

tassaron and Heliomance, both of your voices sound lovely.

[noparlpf]

Generally I have to think in order to get the supplies needed to sterilize a needle because I don't keep them together in one ready to grab kit. I'm guessing from your statement that you do. :smalltongue:

I have half a bottle of rubbing alcohol on the shelf over my desk for some reason, so it was right in my line of sight.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Oh, you're British? I always thought you were North American.

:frown:
I. What? Why?
(No offence to Americans, but this is the first time I've ever been ID'd as American, so I'm curious)


Oh, you know. Terrible. I'm basically living a pseudo-lie in that the only actual LGBT stuff I do is beam whenever someone slips and gets the pronouns right and having awkward discussions. I have this hugely gay friend who kept accidentally segueing the conversation into trans topics a few days ago. I may have given myself away, seeing as I was drunk and flipped him off for something. Or it might have been a V, I get international with alcohol—


Oh, hey, I meet the international criteria now! Huzzah!

Well the waters of LGBTetcs can be tricky to navigate and introduce people to, so even paddling is something. And at least if you did accidentally tell your friend he'll probably be fine; if not he's a little bit hypocritical.

International is good; I tend to get a little more local when I drink, not much because I either don't get drunk or I act exactly the same sober as I do drunk.


Ooh, good question!

Really, no. I have disparate knowledge, I'm just looking for the paradigm that makes it all click. Mostly it's less fashion knowledge in general, and how to apply it to me, that I'm looking for.

Need to get in the physiology aspects, though.

So basically making sure you're hiding the bits you don't want to show and showing off the bits you do? Or making sure you have the bits you want?
In that case here is the one biggest tip you can have physiology-wise, fashion wise and even confidence-wise:
Your silhouette. Specifically, your horizontal silhouette.
Men and women have drastically different silhouettes, generally speaking a male body will be more boxy in general with shoulders and hips of roughly equal proportions and little to no obvious waists.
To use female terminology: most males are rectangles or squares.
Female silhouettes on the other hand will have unequal proportions and are generally more rounded even ignoring the boobs. Generally speaking females have narrower shoulders, a more defined waist and hips wider than their shoulders. Generally. Females come in: triangle, inverted triangle; square; rectangle; round; pear; diamond; hourglass (perfect, top and bottom heavy) and probably a few others I'm forgetting.
To pass as the opposite sex you need to show off your silhouette. This means wearing well fitting clothes; baggy is not your friend. Well, it's more your friend if you want to pass as male, but still not the best.
From browsing Google images of mtf transformations (warning: NSFW because so many boobs) I can loosely say that most transwomen will have square or rectangle shapes. As such, define the waist. The waist is everything.

And until something clicks, you can just read all the advice and tips you find anywhere, take it in, and then when you're ready you can pick and choose.


Heh~

Well, I had fun. And, I'm a narcissist! So you could leave the conversation at this point and I'll probably carry on enough for the both of us~
Thanks!

I had fun too.


Male, and likely to never use it, but I like learning new things. So can't help you with gathering the knowledge, but I'd be interested in learning it once ya got it.

That's fine, may just have to turn my eye to self-teaching. Guys have to know how to dress like guys eventually right?


Was there something particular you were looking for? I can go on at length about how to wear a suit but not much else really.

Suits are good! Suits are very good because then you can break down all the separate bits of suits down into trousers, shirts, ties, waistcoats, jackets and things. And belts and shoes. And smart wear.


I think I'm going to join in asking you for advice, you sound fantastic :smallsmile:

Okay.
In that case, and bear in mind I have a few 'clients', so it'll take a few days.
So, requirements.
I'll need a few pictures for reference, preferably at least one in trousers and a top of some sort. Perhaps some measurements - height and inseam are the best. If you have a bust measurement and feel fine giving it out that's helpful, but entirely optional. If you don't feel comfortable giving photos (by thread or PM) then I will need measurements - height, inseam, waist.
The one thing that is absolutely mandatory is this:
What do you want from me?
General advice; [event] specific advice; hair, make up and accessories or just clothes? Do you have a specific style you want (a la Caroline) or just whatever?


This is true.

The once or twice I've been addressed in conversation on the street have been the most disturbing situations of my life. O_o
(One was actually terrifying)

Everyone gets stricken by awkward terror when randomly approached on the street right? Social mores demand you be polite to them and at least talk with them for a minute or so, unless you're extremely busy in which case you must apologise profusely before leaving, but then you get caught.
Especially in that one creepy case of yours.

[Miriel]

Went shopping today. It's always a good thing :smallsmile: I bought a beautiful dress straight from the 1950s! (EDIT: Obviously, thank you again Curly for the advice!)

However, I busted my monthly clothes budget. Oh well...


My name change went through ^^

So happy.

Oooooh, that's great :smallsmile:


So I did a voice sample too. (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mhYZ66X1AR) I'm not anything like as good, and it gets worse towards the end. Ick.

Warning: Atrocious sound quality.
That's a girl voice all right. You are right that it gets slightly deeper near the end, but it's still unmistakeably a female voice all the way.

[bladequeen420]

Hi I'm in 5th grade and I recently came out as bisexual, but I'm really worried about middle school and high school because I'm already really nerdy and I'm going to a middle school that has a reputation (although it's probably not all true) for physical bullying. All my friends and family have been really supportive but I'm super worried WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN?? :smalleek: :smallfrown:

Don't be nervous i'm a bi transgal and i will tell ya that it's alright if anyone harrasses you i' ll kick their asses and make them never forget
JK but in all honesty bullying is never cool i have a friend who gets bullied cause he prefers the beatles over one erection

[CurlyKitGirl]

Went shopping today. It's always a good thing :smallsmile: I bought a beautiful dress straight from the 1950s! (EDIT: Obviously, thank you again Curly for the advice!)

However, I busted my monthly clothes budget. Oh well...

Pics?
I also think pre-my disappearance you'd bought some clothes based on my advice? Because I can't be bothered to look back through the old thread could you repost them here.
If you want opinions that is; you probably don't because you were pretty fashion savvy as it was and only needed some loose this and thats to follow.

Actually, there's a thought:
how was the advice overall? Was there anything that could be better explained? Were there any terms you were unsure of? Anything you would have liked elaborated upon or covered?

If I'm going to make a Fashion Thing I might as well get feedback and whatnots to make it better.

Oh Lord, I'm handing out Customer Surveys and Customer Experience Forms. Whatever will become of me!? (Who knows, maybe I'll set up Just Another Personal Shopper/Fashion Advice Service. :P)

[TaiLiu]

Did anyone ask the mods (read Roland) about this idea?
Yes.

My name change went through ^^

So happy.
Hooray!

[Eldest]

Yes.!

Annnnnnnd?

[Miriel]

Pics?
I'm not home at the moment, and my makeup is dead anyway, but I'll try to find a good time for this. I'd like to keep the new dress in reserve for a special occasion, so I don't know when that'll happened.

Oh, on the makeup front: I'm now semi-decent at applying blush, I think. Or at least, I apply it, and I feel better with it than without. It's a start. Next step: eyes. It's been my priority since forever, but every time I try to apply eyeliner, it's a complete failure, and I end up half blind.


I also think pre-my disappearance you'd bought some clothes based on my advice? Because I can't be bothered to look back through the old thread could you repost them here.
Indeed!

My two most recent pictures:
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/abvrbecondita/DSCN0224_zps84a76331.jpg
I love this dress! And although I'm not sure where it stands, retro-wise, it certainly does create a waist! The tights/socks are not necessarily supposed to go with the dress, they're just what I had on already.

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/abvrbecondita/DSCN0228_zpsf60a8f74.jpg
One of my favourite tops with probably my favourite skirt. Neither was really following your advice as such, although the peplum is obviously helpful for my waist or the illusion thereof.

If you want opinions that is; you probably don't because you were pretty fashion savvy
:smallredface: (I do want your opinion, in fact! I don't feel particularly fashion savvy.)


Actually, there's a thought:
how was the advice overall? Was there anything that could be better explained? Were there any terms you were unsure of? Anything you would have liked elaborated upon or covered?
The advice was great! I don't think anything was unclear, and it was very complete, as far as I'm concerned. Thank you again :smallsmile: The only thing I would have wanted was for you to actually come with me to buy some shirts and other tops, because when I'm in front of actual shirts, I never know what I should buy -- as a consequence, I have lots of skirts and dresses and comparatively few tops.

[TaiLiu]

Annnnnnnd?
And I'm still waiting. It's only been a couple of hours; I'll keep you [all] notified.

[Heliomance]

Yeah, I might be biased by the quality hiding subtle aspects of your voice, but that honestly sounds pretty good to me. You do get a bit worse at the end, but... that's really not as bad as you probably think it is. We're our own worst critics.

I can't really think of specific advice except keep practicing. I didn't confine my practice to sessions, I used it all the time without worrying about what it sounded like, and that did wonders for making my voice consistent. Practice is 90% of voice training. :)

BTW, I saw your photos earlier in the thread and you looked great too!

I'm full time girl mode, so I do use it all the time. I put greater or lesser amounts of effort into it depending on who's around, but I never use my old male voice anymore.

[Philemonite]

And I'm still waiting. It's only been a couple of hours; I'll keep you [all] notified.

.......... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpx5u1Ua-ZM)


My two most recent pictures:
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/abvrbecondita/DSCN0224_zps84a76331.jpg
I love this dress! And although I'm not sure where it stands, retro-wise, it certainly does create a waist! The tights/socks are not necessarily supposed to go with the dress, they're just what I had on already.

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/abvrbecondita/DSCN0228_zpsf60a8f74.jpg
One of my favourite tops with probably my favourite skirt. Neither was really following your advice as such, although the peplum is obviously helpful for my waist or the illusion thereof.

That bow has a +3 cuteness enchantment.:smallwink:

[Proud Tortoise]

German olympic uniform for sochi seen as pro-gay protest. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-olympic-uniform-for-sochi-seen-as-pro-gay-protest-a-925756.html)

Personally I think they're just trying to blind the competition. They act as a Color Spray.

Gay Germans? Now I've seen everything!


That's something that's been bugging me for a while with a lot of series lately, they could easily research the elements they don't personally know much about, but they so rarely do.<snip>

Seriously, I'm trying to read up on people's experiences with disabilities, cultural diaspora, history and dead languages for a webcomic, yet a big-budget series can't bother bringing in a trans person to make sure they're at least partially accurate? >_<

They're on a deadline, though. I do an absurd amount of research before writing fiction and of course it takes quite a while.

[Philemonite]

Gay Germans? Now I've seen everything!

I'm 1/8 German and 100% gay. Does that count?:smalltongue:

[Miriel]

That bow has a +3 cuteness enchantment.:smallwink:
:smallredface: Thanks! I like it a lot as well!

And bows <3 As of today, I have (at least) 5 headbands with bows (white, green with black lace, black with white polka dots, red with shinies, blue with shinies). About half of all my headbands have bows. And that's not counting my other accessories and clothes with bows on them...

[tassaron]

every time I try to apply eyeliner, it's a complete failure, and I end up half blind.

I swear eyeliner is everyone's favourite makeup and I don't get it because I absolutely hate it. Hard to put on, hard to take off, and doesn't really look that great IMO. I only wear it when I'm trying to be reeeally fancy. :smallannoyed: Then again, I'm not a big fan of makeup in general.

[Miriel]

I swear eyeliner is everyone's favourite makeup and I don't get it because I absolutely hate it. Hard to put on, hard to take off, and doesn't really look that great IMO. I only wear it when I'm trying to be reeeally fancy. :smallannoyed: Then again, I'm not a big fan of makeup in general.
I love makeup, but everything to do with the eyes? Doesn't work (well, except mascara, I can manage that). I would love to succeed, it looks beautiful on other girls, and I have tried. I just fail.

To be precise, pencil eyeliner was less of a failure. I mean, OK, it didn't improve my appearance, but at least it wasn't really much worse than without, and it didn't get in my eyes.

[Eirala]

Gay Germans? Now I've seen everything!

Is there a german prejudice concerning homosexuality i'm unaware of being German myself?



I'm 1/8 German and 100% gay. Does that count?:smalltongue:

Damn it, you beat me with 100% :smalltongue: I'm only about 90 - 95% gay.
Also not sure if 7/8 or 15/16 German, rest is Hungarian.

[Astrella]

Same sex couple in a show on the Disney Channel, don't read the comments, they're awful. (http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/01/27/good-luck-charlie-same-sex-couple-disney-channel-lesbians-video/)

[bladequeen420]

Is there a german prejudice concerning homosexuality i'm unaware of being German myself?




Damn it, you beat me with 100% :smalltongue: I'm only about 90 - 95% gay.
Also not sure if 7/8 or 15/16 German, rest is Hungarian.
50 percent gay 50 percent straight 0 percent german but 50 percent irish also nice pinkie pie avatar

[bladequeen420]

Same sex couple in a show on the Disney Channel, don't read the comments, they're awful. (http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/01/27/good-luck-charlie-same-sex-couple-disney-channel-lesbians-video/)
I think they make a great drinking game lulz

[SiuiS]

The episode...

Cons: The descriptions of transsexuality are wrong, inaccurate, cliched and/or full of wank. The science of the SRS is dodgy at best (6 years of transitioning, starting with surgery rather than HRT, and completely unrecognisable right at the start? Possible, I suppose, especially with plastic surgery, but I expect unlikely). The "confusion" over the victim's sex is needlessly exaggerated. Booth is a jerk about it. I'd be willing to bet aspects of it would be pretty triggering.

Pros: The worst insensitivities are corrected. People are called on flagrant misgendering, particularly references to "real women", though it varies from person to person. The trans woman is more than just a trans woman, but a person with other facets. Not everyone is a jerk about it, and one of the victim's relatives in particular was really lovely. A spoiler relating to the reason for the murder:
It wasn't because she was trans.

Conclusion: For cis people without a high level of knowledge on the subject, or possibly even with some prejudices against it, it's pretty good. For anyone who knows stuff about it, it's cringeworthy. For actual trans people... I think it could be worse than cringeworthy.

I actually appreciated the way it was handled, myself. Booth, who is an actual decent human being, is stumbling over his own prejudice, recoils when it's pointed out to him, and adapts. Over all, it handles how real people in the real world tend to go about things – this, here, in this thread? We are abnormal in te sense that we value and actually speak with an almost clinical precision. That's not human norm, and never will be. We need to adapt to how thigs work when the rubber hits the road. No plan survives contact with reality, after all.

The surgery makes sense in light of the person involved being a widely televised celebrity running away from their former life after having saved up a huge fortune.



They tried, but I feel like they didn't try as hard as they could've - Bones should've had more to say on the subject, more that was right, more accurate, specifically.

Bones has no social graces because she's an anthropologist and has decided that no individual has any merit outside of the measure of their society and so interacts only with archetypes and stereotypes. She wouldn't know or even really care about trans folk. She would have as much knowledge as that trans throughout history page Asta Kask linked and would hold it as objective scientific truth because anthropology.

This is a woman who castigated paychology as a pseudoscience until the paychologist applied it on a large enough scale it magically became anthropology and was thus correct now but still wrong when shrunk down.


That's something that's been bugging me for a while with a lot of series lately, they could easily research the elements they don't personally know much about, but they so rarely do. Been noticing it a lot in another series with David Boreanaz, Angel, with languages. Including one case where two characters spoke nonsense-supposed-to-sound-Korean and one spoke actual Korean (the actor knew the language). I really don't want to have to hope for only mostly wrong information when it comes to anyone outside of the assumed audience, be that PoC, GRSM people or people who just speak a language other than English. ;_;

Seriously, I'm trying to read up on people's experiences with disabilities, cultural diaspora, history and dead languages for a webcomic, yet a big-budget series can't bother bringing in a trans person to make sure they're at least partially accurate? >_<

Costs and benefits. Another hour of research, an hour of fitting the details into an already existing script, an hour of teaching the actors involved the proper responses and prejudices, is goin to run into the thousands of dollars for almost no benefit. 90% of the audience gets no benefit and the ten percent that do aren't profitable.


Eek. I might be colorblind now.


I like them! 10/10, would wear.



You shouldn't have to think to know to sterilise things before putting them in your body. Isn't that common sense?

Ain't nothin' common 'bout horse sense, sugar cube.


:frown:
I. What? Why?
(No offence to Americans, but this is the first time I've ever been ID'd as American, so I'm curious)

I didn't say American, I said North American. Specifically, Canadian nearing the border, and because of your social tendencies.

Canadians are British though. I mean, having the queen on your money is your only real qualifier, right?



Well the waters of LGBTetcs can be tricky to navigate and introduce people to, so even paddling is something. And at least if you did accidentally tell your friend he'll probably be fine; if not he's a little bit hypocritical.

Said friend is a black homosexual pagan, in sure despite his prejudices he's capable of open mindedness. Although sometimes perfectly innocuous comments seem to come across to him as being racist or white-privilege'd. Its weird having to tell someone "no, they aren't leaving me alone because I'm white, they're leaving me alone because me and their leader got into a fist fight a couple years ago and I lasted five minutes".


International is good; I tend to get a little more local when I drink, not much because I either don't get drunk or I act exactly the same sober as I do drunk.

Alcohol induces uncontrollable accents. Apparently I sound to British people like I'm from Cork? I can also do a believable-to-Americans Russian, Scottish, and mexican accent. But only ever convinced a near native with the Irish. And only remember about half of it.



So basically making sure you're hiding the bits you don't want to show and showing off the bits you do? Or making sure you have the bits you want?
In that case here is the one biggest tip you can have physiology-wise, fashion wise and even confidence-wise:
Your silhouette. Specifically, your horizontal silhouette.
Men and women have drastically different silhouettes, generally speaking a male body will be more boxy in general with shoulders and hips of roughly equal proportions and little to no obvious waists.
To use female terminology: most males are rectangles or squares.
Female silhouettes on the other hand will have unequal proportions and are generally more rounded even ignoring the boobs. Generally speaking females have narrower shoulders, a more defined waist and hips wider than their shoulders. Generally. Females come in: triangle, inverted triangle; square; rectangle; round; pear; diamond; hourglass (perfect, top and bottom heavy) and probably a few others I'm forgetting.
To pass as the opposite sex you need to show off your silhouette. This means wearing well fitting clothes; baggy is not your friend. Well, it's more your friend if you want to pass as male, but still not the best.
From browsing Google images of mtf transformations (warning: NSFW because so many boobs) I can loosely say that most transwomen will have square or rectangle shapes. As such, define the waist. The waist is everything.

And until something clicks, you can just read all the advice and tips you find anywhere, take it in, and then when you're ready you can pick and choose.


Good to know! I kinda already knew that but not explicitly. I went for quite a while without my glasses, so silhouette is all I had. XD

Motion is my thing, I find. Biomechanics. I have a hard time judging my own but I'm pretty good about other people.



That's fine, may just have to turn my eye to self-teaching. Guys have to know how to dress like guys eventually right?


Guy clothes are about fabric and cut, but it's nothing I can be direct about. It's a vague understanding. >.<
Suit design nails it. I find the basics of masculine dress till come from around the same era as the Sherlock homes movies. Broadcloth, leather, boxes in areas strapped down. Suspenders, trousers, waistcoat defining the V to broaden the shoulders. Rolled cuffs, rough patterns (fine houndstooth, flat cap standard). Not much fine detail; filigree etc. Is more feminine? Masculine leather boots are broader, fewer fine details. Just leather, buttons, stitching. Feminine boots are narrower, finer detail, more likely to have elaborated details. Boy I should probably verify this before spouting off, non? Maybe should look at pictures...


I'm 1/8 German and 100% gay. Does that count?:smalltongue:

Naw, that's still only 12.5% gay.

Oh, wait no, that's 800% gay. Huh.

[Coidzor]

SiuiS: Not really making the whole confusion about nationality thing better, just sorta digging the hole deeper... :smalleek:


That's fine, may just have to turn my eye to self-teaching. Guys have to know how to dress like guys eventually right?

Mostly it's "Don't dress like a girl," really, followed by "don't wear anything that'll get people to mock you for dressing like a girl," which'll vary depending upon the guy in question and surrounding environment.

It's not really codified, which makes unpacking it difficult.

[Miriel]

Oh! @ Curly : I just noticed your location. *strong approval*


I didn't say American, I said North American. Specifically, Canadian nearing the border, and because of your social tendencies.

Canadians are British though. I mean, having the queen on your money is your only real qualifier, right?
Hum, I'm Canadian, and whatever else I might be, I'm certainly not British. I don't know for English Canadians, but it would be a bit offensive for French Canadians -- roughly a quarter of the population. (As Coidzor said, not helping.)

Unless it was a joke and I missed it, in which case I'm sorry for not understanding it...

[Eldest]

Gay Germans? Now I've seen everything!

They have fairly important political figures that are openly queer (the mayor of Berlin's a lesbian, if I recall correctly, but might be totally off.) so not exactly.


Same sex couple in a show on the Disney Channel, don't read the comments, they're awful. (http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/01/27/good-luck-charlie-same-sex-couple-disney-channel-lesbians-video/)

There were two moderately bad comments ("I won't be letting my kids watch this" and "Why is this G rated?") and one reducto-ad-absurdum attempt (which failed) that I saw. The rest were "Good for Disney! :D".

[Astrella]

They have fairly important political figures that are openly queer (the mayor of Berlin's a lesbian, if I recall correctly, but might be totally off.) so not exactly.



There were two moderately bad comments ("I won't be letting my kids watch this" and "Why is this G rated?") and one reducto-ad-absurdum attempt (which failed) that I saw. The rest were "Good for Disney! :D".

Oh, I saw a bunch of them about Satan, and moral corruption and stuff like that. :/

[Eldest]

Oh, I saw a bunch of them about Satan, and moral corruption and stuff like that. :/

Ooo, satanism. Fun. I'm glad I missed those, then.

[Serpentine]

Bones has no social graces because she's an anthropologist and has decided that no individual has any merit outside of the measure of their society and so interacts only with archetypes and stereotypes. She wouldn't know or even really care about trans folk. She would have as much knowledge as that trans throughout history page Asta Kask linked and would hold it as objective scientific truth because anthropology.

This is a woman who castigated paychology as a pseudoscience until the paychologist applied it on a large enough scale it magically became anthropology and was thus correct now but still wrong when shrunk down.She's hyper-literal, precise, and with an interest in human variance. At the very least, I think she would have a decent awareness of what transsexuality is and would not tolerate any inaccuracies in descriptions of the science and medicine involved. I would also expect her to have something to say on the subject of third genders, the history of transsexuality and deviations from assigned sexes, etc, and to find the concept of transsexuality really fascinating, especially from an anthropological perspective.
In other words, psychology and social graces don't come into it. I believe she would have known about the science and even the anthropology of transsexuality, and yet she ignored some pretty flagrant errors or at best oversimplifications in discussions of it. From a writing point of view, they missed an opportunity to say some interesting and accurate stuff that it would've made sense for Bones to know.

[SiuiS]

SiuiS: Not really making the whole confusion about nationality thing better, just sorta digging the hole deeper... :smalleek:


Yup!



Mostly it's "Don't dress like a girl," really, followed by "don't wear anything that'll get people to mock you for dressing like a girl," which'll vary depending upon the guy in question and surrounding environment.

It's not really codified, which makes unpacking it difficult.

Also yup! Kinda sucks.



Hum, I'm Canadian, and whatever else I might be, I'm certainly not British. I don't know for English Canadians, but it would be a bit offensive for French Canadians -- roughly a quarter of the population. (As Coidzor said, not helping.)

'Twas some playful racism from a comedy act. "Canadian? Australian? Look, if you've got the queen on your money, you're British."

If I had meant for it to be a nonflippant answer, I wouldn't have been even less direct than before. :smalltongue:


Unless it was a joke and I missed it, in which case I'm sorry for not understanding it...

All good. :smallsmile:


She's hyper-literal, precise, and with an interest in human variance. At the very least, I think she would have a decent awareness of what transsexuality is and would not tolerate any inaccuracies in descriptions of the science and medicine involved. I would also expect her to have something to say on the subject of third genders, the history of transsexuality and deviations from assigned sexes, etc, and to find the concept of transsexuality really fascinating, especially from an anthropological perspective.
In other words, psychology and social graces don't come into it. I believe she would have known about the science and even the anthropology of transsexuality, and yet she ignored some pretty flagrant errors or at best oversimplifications in discussions of it. From a writing point of view, they missed an opportunity to say some interesting and accurate stuff that it would've made sense for Bones to know.

I'll give you third gender, but you miss my point; the root of Bones' lack of respect for paychology and social graces is because anything not in her area of desired study is unimportant, unscientific backwards thinking noteworthy for existing but ultimately stupid and disdained by a proper scientific mind.

She wouldn't give a damn about transsexuality because it plays into gender as a nonsocial phenomenon. She's feminist and against celibacy outside relationships because she's Rational and doesn't believe in that Society Says So nonsense, after all. Why care about someone choosing to be one gender or another in detail when gender is "just a social construct" and all.

Bones has a lot of biases and prejudices she hides behind being "Logical". It makes sense that she wouldn't actually care enough to know these details beyond the standard gloss, especially in a field (academia) that prescriptively lumps such people into 'mental illness (fetishism)'.

Ugh. My clearest example of this line of thinking is against forum rules. I guess if that's not any clearer I'll have to let it go. :smallfrown:
It was a waste, but it did seem to be handled as well as a show about a socially disassociated upper class academic white woman who knows about human rights movements as currents of history rather than actions with goals can be.

[Astrella]

Yup!
She wouldn't give a damn about transsexuality because it plays into gender as a nonsocial phenomenon.

I wouldn't say that the existence of transsexuality implies gender is nonsocial / not exclusively social necessarily.

[Heliomance]

Same sex couple in a show on the Disney Channel, don't read the comments, they're awful. (http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/01/27/good-luck-charlie-same-sex-couple-disney-channel-lesbians-video/)

Comments seem to be pretty good, as a whole. Couple of bigoted ones, which got shouted down by about ten people each.

[Astrella]

Comments seem to be pretty good, as a whole. Couple of bigoted ones, which got shouted down by about ten people each.
`
They probably got better as the article was up longer? There weren't many comments when I read it.

[SiuiS]

I wouldn't say that the existence of transsexuality implies gender is nonsocial / not exclusively social necessarily.

Well, no, I would hope for actual evidence of that myself. I would say that it's unlikely that something propagated across all of human history and dissected so profoundly has no basis outside of "other people say so", however. It's not clearly dismissible, is the point.


On that note, how fine is the grain before something is accepted as natural/ingrained? There's no physical difference between a male and female brain, but there are differences in process consistent across all female brains? So they're not divisible into Mac/PC, but they are divisible between IE and Mozilla?

I'll have to remember this when I have mental focus and actual time/resources to DJ more than make strange allusions.


`
They probably got better as the article was up longer? There weren't many comments when I read it.

Interesting. A reverse sturgeons law?

[Serpentine]

I'll give you third gender, but you miss my point; the root of Bones' lack of respect for paychology and social graces is because anything not in her area of desired study is unimportant, unscientific backwards thinking noteworthy for existing but ultimately stupid and disdained by a proper scientific mind.

She wouldn't give a damn about transsexuality because it plays into gender as a nonsocial phenomenon. She's feminist and against celibacy outside relationships because she's Rational and doesn't believe in that Society Says So nonsense, after all. Why care about someone choosing to be one gender or another in detail when gender is "just a social construct" and all.

Bones has a lot of biases and prejudices she hides behind being "Logical". It makes sense that she wouldn't actually care enough to know these details beyond the standard gloss, especially in a field (academia) that prescriptively lumps such people into 'mental illness (fetishism)'.

Ugh. My clearest example of this line of thinking is against forum rules. I guess if that's not any clearer I'll have to let it go. :smallfrown:
It was a waste, but it did seem to be handled as well as a show about a socially disassociated upper class academic white woman who knows about human rights movements as currents of history rather than actions with goals can be.I disagree. Transsexuality has a great deal of relevance in the area of anthropology, and there is absolutely no reason why she wouldn't be incredibly interested in it anthropologically. Transsexuality is not "just" psychology, it is also a scientific and sociological phenomenon, with scientific, sociological and anthropological significance. Being feminist and anti-celibacy has nothing to do with anything. It doesn't "play into gender as a nonsocial phenomenon", it incorporates the nonsocial development and the social expression and influence. And in fact I would see her, in her hypersemanticism, to be very much against the "lumping" of transsexuality into "fetishism", since it's not, and she would be aware of that.

[The Succubus]

I avoid reading news article comments unless I know its an LGBT friendly paper/news source.

Challenging views can lead to positive change, arguing with people that refuse to listen is giving yourself a whole load of stress/anger/misery for no productive reason.

[Thufir]

I swear eyeliner is everyone's favourite makeup and I don't get it because I absolutely hate it. Hard to put on, hard to take off, and doesn't really look that great IMO. I only wear it when I'm trying to be reeeally fancy. :smallannoyed: Then again, I'm not a big fan of makeup in general.

Whereas for me eyeliner is the only makeup I've ever considered wearing for non-stage purposes, because I like how it looks. And I find it easier to put on, because while it is more fiddly than other bits of makeup, I've gotten used to it, and it's also much easier to tell when I've got it right.

Also there's a much simpler selection process. One generally just gets black eyeliner. As opposed to considering other makeup and going "OK, so which of these 5000 different shades is better suited to me? Can anyone actually tell the difference between most of them?"

[Serpentine]

On the rare occasion I wear eye make-up, it always looks better the next day...

[Iruka]

They have fairly important political figures that are openly queer (the mayor of Berlin's a lesbian, if I recall correctly, but might be totally off.) so not exactly.




Almost correct, he's gay. Like the former state secretary.

[SiuiS]

I disagree. Transsexuality has a great deal of relevance in the area of anthropology, and there is absolutely no reason why she wouldn't be incredibly interested in it anthropologically. Transsexuality is not "just" psychology, it is also a scientific and sociological phenomenon, with scientific, sociological and anthropological significance. Being feminist and anti-celibacy has nothing to do with anything. It doesn't "play into gender as a nonsocial phenomenon", it incorporates the nonsocial development and the social expression and influence. And in fact I would see her, in her hypersemanticism, to be very much against the "lumping" of transsexuality into "fetishism", since it's not, and she would be aware of that.

You entirely missed the point of the bolded section again.

I'm not saying A=B, I'm saying the underlying personal mechanism n, which causes bones to not care about A, is also the same mechanism that explains her lack of giving a flip about B. At no point did I say transsexuals was just anything, not did I say feminism and celibacy have anything to do with transsexuality being a sociological phenomenon. I've just been pointing to existing expressions of her character to show by allusion how her not being accurate is still seemingly in character. She ignores the details of [X] for [Y], it makes sense she would ignore the details of [Z] as well, regardless of how smart that choice is.

In the same way someone would say "it's all christiandom" without really caring about the differences or validity of different denominations, bones says "it's all a social phenomenon" without caring about the differences and validity of gender archetypes and unique expressions, just like she doesn't care about the differences and validity of different forms of romantic mores and relational social Pressures.

Bones doesn't care about the nuances of gender, she cares about the meta perspective. She wouldn't be aware of that difference because at her operational abstraction level it's not relevant nor scientifically verifiable, just like the difference between a committed couple and fun-buddies is nonscientific and not scientifically verifiable. It's a common theme in media for anthropologists to consider themselves above cultural differences because they take an objective view and find everyone who believes their subjective view is objective to be backwards.


On the rare occasion I wear eye make-up, it always looks better the next day...

I've heard of that before.

[Serpentine]

In the same way someone would say "it's all christiandom" without really caring about the differences or validity of different denominations, bones says "it's all a social phenomenon" without caring about the differences and validity of gender archetypes and unique expressions, just like she doesn't care about the differences and validity of different forms of romantic mores and relational social Pressures.

Bones doesn't care about the nuances of gender, she cares about the meta perspective. She wouldn't be aware of that difference because at her operational abstraction level it's not relevant nor scientifically verifiable, just like the difference between a committed couple and fun-buddies is nonscientific and not scientifically verifiable. It's a common theme in media for anthropologists to consider themselves above cultural differences because they take an objective view and find everyone who believes their subjective view is objective to be backwards.

And I disagree. I do not believe there is any reason to think she wouldn't be aware of that difference, because 1. she is extremely intelligent, and 2. transsexuality has a great deal of relevance to the field of anthropology. Its existence, its expression, how societies respond to them, they're all anthropological. I don't see what anthropologists supposedly being "above cultural differences" has to do with the fact that transsexuality is a subject of anthropological interest, and therefore of interest to a forensic anthropologist with an exceptionally broad range of interest and knowledge.
To me, Bones being completely ignorant of transsexuality out of lack of interest is less in character than that she would be interested in a fascinating field from an anthropological perspective and therefore knowledgeable enough to be anal about the semantics.

[Mina Kobold]

Having no idea what is in- or out-of character in Bones, I still think Serpentine's criticism is valid. While in real life, a person with that personality might act like that, in fiction, someone chose that they would do that. They chose that none of the cast would correct the misconceptions, that the situation would play out as it might have been most likely to play out in real life. That is, how it might play out among people whose bigotry is at the level it is common in the society it takes place in.

It reminds me a bit of a piece of advice (I believe Rich Burlew wrote about it somewhere) for roleplaying: Never say that your character has to attack another because they didn't live up to your character's moral code. If you play a Paladin, don't react to something a party member did by fighting and leaving the party because "A Paladin can't work with someone who did that". Find another solution, figure out another way for your character to react, even if fighting is the most obvious and logical way. The game doesn't work if you destroy the party, no matter how realistic that development is. Realism does not save you from the consequences.

It's the same with fiction: It doesn't matter if it makes sense and is the most likely thing to happen in real life. It still affects the message you send and it still can make the story not work. That's why the second episode of a season cannot kill of the entire cast, even if it makes sense that the villain would blow up their base, or why so many films set in the past do not show characters being as racist, sexist and otherwise bigoted as was most common in that period.
If Robin Hood would realistically have killed innocent children in cold blood, a show that portrays this unironically as a heroic thing still sends the message that it is such a thing, no matter how much it is in-character. Because the creators are sending the viewer to a real place to see with their own perspective, they are choosing how a fictional character will act, what will happen and in what light (i.e. what perspectives get the privilege of being included) that will be shown. If they choose to go with a bad portrayal because it is the way it commonly is, then they chose that it was more important for the show to show that as acceptable than to avoid transphobia. Just as having a film wherein a character is horribly racist, yet never is portrayed as that being anything but a sign of not being interested in social movements, was just fine some decades ago, but now means that the work may be looked down upon as hateful. It may have been perfectly in-character, but that doesn't mean it is right or should be showed as such.

Or, in other words: it doesn't matter if the character has no reason to not be transphobic, the creators still chose how fairly they'd portray the subject and that the "don't care about the nuances or even the right information" perspective would be the show's perspective.

PS: Also, the scientist character who hides huge bigotry behind being "Rational" is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, mostly due to the way Ross was portrayed on Friends (Which felt less like an attempt to have a palaeontologist character and more as an attempt to caricature what someone thought a scientist was), so my rant may be a bit coloured by that. Sorry. ^_^'

PPS: Also sorry for ranting. m(_ _)m

[Coidzor]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the sort of thing we're not really supposed to discuss because it always results in raised tempers, hurt feelings, and people leaving the thread?

Also, thank you Serpentine and SiuiS for convincing me to never watch Bones. XD


I avoid reading news article comments unless I know its an LGBT friendly paper/news source.

Challenging views can lead to positive change, arguing with people that refuse to listen is giving yourself a whole load of stress/anger/misery for no productive reason.

Even when the news has nothing to do with LGBTA issues directly?

The problem being you can run into that even on the most "feminist-friendly" or "LGBTA-friendly" sites too. At the end of the day it's about choosing who you engage with, rather than flying off the handle at the trolls wherever you go.

[Serpentine]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the sort of thing we're not really supposed to discuss because it always results in raised tempers, hurt feelings, and people leaving the thread?
What, knowledge that would be in-character for a fictional woman to have? :smallconfused: I'll grant that the topic of a non-LGBT* character probably shouldn't be in here for long, but as far as I'm aware it's just a literary criticism debate.

For the record, (the character) Bones wasn't actually transphobic, and I believe the actually transphobic characters/behaviours were shown negatively. I just believe it would've made sense for her to know more (anything...) about transsexuality, and apply her hyperprecision to it.


*Although she might have poly tendencies, at least...

[The Succubus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the sort of thing we're not really supposed to discuss because it always results in raised tempers, hurt feelings, and people leaving the thread?

Also, thank you Serpentine and SiuiS for convincing me to never watch Bones. XD



Even when the news has nothing to do with LGBTA issues directly?

The problem being you can run into that even on the most "feminist-friendly" or "LGBTA-friendly" sites too. At the end of the day it's about choosing who you engage with, rather than flying off the handle at the trolls wherever you go.

Put it like this, when ever I feel overly happy and that the world is a fine and decent place, I read the Daily Mail and Yahoo News comments section, on any article, and then I curl up sobbing in a ball.

I tend to get most of my news from IT websites. -.-

[Asta Kask]

There's only one real "Bones":

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/137022261328836.jpg

[SiuiS]

To me, Bones being completely ignorant of transsexuality out of lack of interest is less in character than that she would be interested in a fascinating field from an anthropological perspective and therefore knowledgeable enough to be anal about the semantics.

But brenna has been out of the loop on similar things of anthropological interest for the same reason. I feel you may find this one more glaring simply because it's relevant to your interests.

Let me ponder though, I'm not sure. Still percolating.


Having no idea what is in- or out-of character in Bones, I still think Serpentine's criticism is valid. While in real life, a person with that personality might act like that, in fiction, someone chose that they would do that. They chose that none of the cast would correct the misconceptions, that the situation would play out as it might have been most likely to play out in real life. That is, how it might play out among people whose bigotry is at the level it is common in the society it takes place in..

PS: Also, the scientist character who hides huge bigotry behind being "Rational" is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, mostly due to the way Ross was portrayed on Friends (Which felt less like an attempt to have a palaeontologist character and more as an attempt to caricature what someone thought a scientist was), so my rant may be a bit coloured by that. Sorry. ^_^'

PPS: Also sorry for ranting. m(_ _)m

I dunno. I personally feel that well done characters have their own agenda that is apparent and sometimes glaringly obvious. You put them together from pieces but they should be able to at least partially steer themselves. If a character happens to have been built in such a way that they do something stupid later, that's where drama comes from. I find it worse to force changes to characterization to avoid seeming like a jerk, myself.

And, yes. I am rather the same way and Brenna comes off like that especially in the early episodes. I had to be convinced to watch it; Braz conversely loves it.



For the record, (the character) Bones wasn't actually transphobic, and I believe the actually transphobic characters/behaviours were shown negatively. I just believe it would've made sense for her to know more (anything...) about transsexuality, and apply her hyperprecision to it.


*Although she might have poly tendencies, at least...

Oh aye, that would have been nice.

There's always room to improve, I just think the episode was above the level of cringeworthy. I did have to note that regardless of what the episode showed I didn't have to justify myself, though. Maybe I'm looking at it with Rose lenses?


Put it like this, when ever I feel overly happy and that the world is a fine and decent place, I read the Daily Mail and Yahoo News comments section, on any article, and then I curl up sobbing in a ball.

I tend to get most of my news from IT websites. -.-

Why would you ever choose to do that?!


There's only one real "Bones":

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/137022261328836.jpg

In soviet TVistan, bones can tell when the dead is a man*!


* well, sometimes.

[KenderWizard]

Although let us take a moment to consider the irony that we putting a Kender in a position of trust and responsibility. And that said Kender will be responsible for greeting new people.

A Kender.

Granted, we adore this Kender and love her to death, but...

I love it. As much as if not just a teensy bit more than I love you.

:smallbiggrin: Kender are excellent at greeting new people! It's the trust and responsibility where it falls apart... When I was playing my Kender in our old Dragonlance game, a new person joined, and when they heard there was a young, inexperienced woman playing a Kender in the party they were disgusted. I was the first person his character met and after about 30 seconds he had broken character due to laughing too much. :smallwink:


So I did a voice sample too. (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mhYZ66X1AR) I'm not anything like as good, and it gets worse towards the end. Ick.

Warning: Atrocious sound quality.

Gosh you're very British! My verdict is androgynous leaning female. If asked to guess, I'd guess it was a girl with an alto voice.

[Mono Vertigo]

There are series that are egregious even concerning their main topic, which the writers are supposed to have researched seriously. House M.D doesn't always feature medically accurate cases (BF, who's a medicine student, jumped out of his seat in outrage more times than I can count, and he likes House M.D). Uncountable police dramas have shaky understanding on legal procedures and profiling.
Bones, IMHO, is one of those. The main character is objectively not that great an anthropologist if she's clueless about the society she was raised in; that she would have incomplete or questionable opinions on transgender people therefore surprises me as much as talking about the victim in the past tense being considered a key clue in CSI, even though transexuality is absolutely a relevant topic in anthropology. Writers don't do all the research they could, or don't let facts or plausibility get in the way of what they consider to be a good story; that might be a good or bad thing depending of who you ask or what the story is. This is not new. That transexuality is under-researched as a topic is not new, either. This being the default state is irritating, but I find it much less noteworthy than the cases where it is properly researched.


EDIT: by the way, it's not just transexuality. Pretty much anything that falls outside the cis- and heteronormative spectrum is not researched properly, mostly because it's still quite misunderstood by the majority. Media have recently gotten better at portraying homosexual people, but the rest is subpar, be the characters bisexual, asexual, agender, genderfluid, etc.
It's not just sexual minorities. Racial, religious, handicapped, and non-neurotypical minorities suffer the same treatment.
That's why I tend to just sigh and shrug, provided the portrayal isn't downright heinous. There are too many of fictions with shoddy research to get worked up every time.

[Asta Kask]

Sadly, Heliomance will never sing the "Queen of the Night's" arias.

Can one realistically expect a "quantum leap" in the understanding of minorities or is it baby steps all the way? Maybe if one of the heavy hitters in entertainment - someone everyone has to interact with or at least acknowledge - came out as transgender.

How will we achieve understanding? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdIb285n-X8)

[Mono Vertigo]

I don't think we can expect a quantum leap. But on the bright side, we can fit a lot of baby steps in a short time. It's not the quality of the person coming out, but the quantity, that is most likely to change mentalities. Everybody has detractors, even the most liked heavy hitters, and fans can still dismiss the announcement as some kind of disorder or confusion hitting their idol, or fearing it's going to change them.
When it's a lot of people, though? Your cousin, your grandmother, your school teacher, your coworker, your nephew, your baker, your neighbour, all coming out? When it turns out transition - should they choose to transition - does not fundamentally change them as a person? That these dozens people you know rather well don't actually seem worse off or more confused? That these people don't look or act like monsters after transitioning? That they're actually just as normal as you are? That the only thing changing in your life is the name and pronouns you use to refer to them? You're more likely to realize that it's no big deal after all.

[Eldest]

Almost correct, he's gay. Like the former state secretary.

D'oh! Well... 80% accurate, at least. I got the role, the sexuality, and the date (current) right. :P

[Jon_Dahl]

I just read an interesting article and I thought I'd share it in this thread:
http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1695510/jens-lehmann-players-nuts-come-gay?cc=5739

(Let it be noted that Lehmann has always been a controversial figure)
How well do sports and homosexuality mix?

[Asta Kask]

A problem there is that we don't know how many transgender people there are to come out. Natalie Reed guesses 1:1000 - that's 1% of the number of homosexuals. A massive come out campaign will be much less massive and much less impactful than the homosexuals' come out campaign.

Looking at the math of the situation - in a workplace with 30 people where there's one homosexual, there's a reasonable chance that there's another one (95%). They can support each other.

Whereas if there's one trans* person at a similar workplace, the probability of there being another transgender person there is 3%... rejecting one person is much easier than rejecting two or more. One could hope that the homosexuals at the workplace would support hir, but inter-letter solidarity within the LGBTA group isn't something you can count on. Hmm... :smallsigh:


I just read an interesting article and I thought I'd share it in this thread:
http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1695510/jens-lehmann-players-nuts-come-gay?cc=5739

(Let it be noted that Lehmann has always been a controversial figure)
How well do sports and homosexuality mix?

Several Swedish footballplayers have come out as gay and had overwhelmingly positive responses.

[Delusion]

Funnily enough, there are 4 people that when I came out to them mentioned already knowing a transsexual person. In three casesthe person was FtM and the last one was unspecified.

[Serpentine]

If you're interested in openly LGBT sportspeople, you might like this (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/all-i-knew-about-the-word-gay-was-that-it-was-used-to-mean-bad-weak-or-disgusting/story-fneuzufi-1226644982438).

[Zorg]

Also not every trans person wants to be out. I mean they may be out by definition of living as their gender, but it doesn't mean they want anyone they work with to know it.
For instance when I transitioned at work I talked to my HR guy and he talked to his bosses and there was no procedure in place as as far as anyone in the company knew nobody else employed is trans, or at least they have not spoken with HR about being trans - and this is a company with 200,000 employees.

Coming out as trans is, from a personal perspective, possibly not something that has to be ongoing (I'm assuming still being binary here). Once you're out, and if you are passing completely, you can basically live your life the way you want and that's that aside from doctors really, but that would probably carry over from the past.
However if you're a gay man, you need to constantly come out when you tell people about your boyfriend, or that you don't have one and want to ask a cute guy out etc etc - it's a constantly visible issue so people are automatically going to be aware of it more.

Though oddly, like delusion, basically everyone I've come out to has a trans friend / friend of a friend, yet I'd never (knowingly) met a trans person in my life. But then again, that's sort of my point (what little point there is) - trans people do their thing like everyone else, it just doesn't come up most of the time.


Semi related: via my grandma: "I was talking to [downstairs neighbour] and she kept thinking it was the same as being gay. I kept saying that, no, [trans stuff] is to do with them, while being gay is about the other person." Pleasantly amusing :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

I think I personally know fewer gay people than trans people... I'm not sure why that is, though it could just be that I'm not aware of people's sexualities as much as their sexes. Whatever that says.

[Mono Vertigo]

Of course not every trans* person wants to come out, I was just comparing that case to one where a single celebrity comes out in terms of impact.
Besides, there's very much a vicious cycle at work there. It's not safe for trans* people to come out. Therefore they won't come out, and those who do are likely to get in trouble. Therefore very few people will have trans* awareness. Therefore it won't be safe for trans* people to come out. Therefore...
Like pretty much everything humanity has to deal with, it's a complicated issue.


That's an amusing way of putting it your grandmother has there. :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

Of course not every trans* person wants to come out, I was just comparing that case to one where a single celebrity comes out in terms of impact.
Besides, there's very much a vicious cycle at work there. It's not safe for trans* people to come out. Therefore they won't come out, and those who do are likely to get in trouble. Therefore very few people will have trans* awareness. Therefore it won't be safe for trans* people to come out. Therefore...
Like pretty much everything humanity has to deal with, it's a complicated issue.

It's a positive feedback cycle. The good thing with those is that once you get a change going, it can happen really quickly.

[Iruka]

D'oh! Well... 80% accurate, at least. I got the role, the sexuality, and the date (current) right. :P

To be honest, I looked him up to be sure I don't give any wrong information. Neat thing I found while researching (by which I mean reading his wikipedia entry): According to a survey done in 2007, 79% of Germans would be okay with a gay chancellor.

[Coidzor]

:smallbiggrin: Kender are excellent at greeting new people!

They do tend to be naked within about a minute or so due to having even their underwear stolen off their butts, aye. :smalltongue:


What, knowledge that would be in-character for a fictional woman to have? :smallconfused: I'll grant that the topic of a non-LGBT* character probably shouldn't be in here for long, but as far as I'm aware it's just a literary criticism debate.

More the scientifically justifying the existence and acknowledgement of trans issues and arguing back and forth about it reminded me of a more meta version of events I'd witnessed in the past.

Granted, my eyes did start to glaze over about 3/4 of the way through, so that might have influenced my interpretation and my feeling like it was familiar.


Can one realistically expect a "quantum leap" in the understanding of minorities or is it baby steps all the way? Maybe if one of the heavy hitters in entertainment - someone everyone has to interact with or at least acknowledge - came out as transgender.

I really wish that wasn't as much of a term as it was. XD I keep hearing the theme song for the show.

My recollection is that it's neither baby steps all the way or a sea change from one single event. It seems more like it's been fits, starts, stalls, and occasional sprints, but I'm only a casual student of the history involved across multiple nations.

[Asta Kask]

I really wish that wasn't as much of a term as it was. XD I keep hearing the theme song for the show.

My recollection is that it's neither baby steps all the way or a sea change from one single event. It seems more like it's been fits, starts, stalls, and occasional sprints, but I'm only a casual student of the history involved across multiple nations.

As a cat owner, I must be on my guard for quantum phenomena. (http://www.improb.com/airchives/paperair/volume4/v4i2/cat.htm)

[Eldest]

Anybody have the link to the depression-guide thing? Two very large posts, involved a metaphor about dead goldfish? Badly-drawn stick figure wearing a gray hoodie?

[Serpentine]

I do believe that would be Hyperbole and a Half (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/depression-part-two.html) (link is to the second one, with the fish)

[Eldest]

I do believe that would be Hyperbole and a Half (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/depression-part-two.html) (link is to the second one, with the fish)

Thank you.

[Asta Kask]

Anybody have the link to the depression-guide thing? Two very large posts, involved a metaphor about dead goldfish? Badly-drawn stick figure wearing a gray hoodie?

Although, if you think you're depressed, I would strongly recommend a doctor. Ditto if someone you care about seems depressed.

[Heliomance]

A problem there is that we don't know how many transgender people there are to come out. Natalie Reed guesses 1:1000 - that's 1% of the number of homosexuals. A massive come out campaign will be much less massive and much less impactful than the homosexuals' come out campaign.

Looking at the math of the situation - in a workplace with 30 people where there's one homosexual, there's a reasonable chance that there's another one (95%). They can support each other.

Whereas if there's one trans* person at a similar workplace, the probability of there being another transgender person there is 3%... rejecting one person is much easier than rejecting two or more. One could hope that the homosexuals at the workplace would support hir, but inter-letter solidarity within the LGBTA group isn't something you can count on. Hmm... :smallsigh:


That's really weird - even before I joined my uni's LGBT society, I knew at least three trans folk, just at uni. And I certainly don't know 3000 people.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the sort of thing we're not really supposed to discuss because it always results in raised tempers, hurt feelings, and people leaving the thread?
Wait - Coidzor is being the voice of reason? WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE WORLD?!

[Mina Kobold]

Put it like this, when ever I feel overly happy and that the world is a fine and decent place, I read the Daily Mail and Yahoo News comments section, on any article, and then I curl up sobbing in a ball.

I tend to get most of my news from IT websites. -.-

Any tips on how to get to the pre-DM&YN phase? Don't think I've had a solid minute of being very happy or at all convinced that the world is fine since I was 13 or so. >_<


I don't think we can expect a quantum leap. But on the bright side, we can fit a lot of baby steps in a short time. It's not the quality of the person coming out, but the quantity, that is most likely to change mentalities. Everybody has detractors, even the most liked heavy hitters, and fans can still dismiss the announcement as some kind of disorder or confusion hitting their idol, or fearing it's going to change them.
When it's a lot of people, though? Your cousin, your grandmother, your school teacher, your coworker, your nephew, your baker, your neighbour, all coming out? When it turns out transition - should they choose to transition - does not fundamentally change them as a person? That these dozens people you know rather well don't actually seem worse off or more confused? That these people don't look or act like monsters after transitioning? That they're actually just as normal as you are? That the only thing changing in your life is the name and pronouns you use to refer to them? You're more likely to realize that it's no big deal after all.

That's pretty much the reason I like criticising shows and other fiction, aside from being very interested in making them. They are the way to show people, many people, that being trans, gay, bi, pan, Muslim, Hindu, black, brown, disabled, non-neurotypical or anything else is not some strange monstrous Other that they don't have to deal with. Fiction's what's behind people I've worked with assuming that gay people walk special, that crossdressing is pathetic and gross, that gender-neutrality is stupid and wrong, that it's all right to tell the only cis woman present to wear a bikini, and so on. Fiction's also what might tell people around me to see trans people as actual people, as it somewhat has with gay people (I say somewhat, because my family is generally fine with that, though harbours stereotypes, while they seem scared of the possibility that I could be anything but a man ;_;)

Several people mentioned knowing or knowing people who know trans people. I don't know anyone but me and the few people I met at the city's lone LGBT organisation. Closest to knowing someone else GRSM has so far been hearing that one person is openly gay in my 200+ university class/year/thingy. From people who acted as if that made her a freak.

Sorry, just... that's why I really care about representation in fiction. There's nothing else to show that I'm not a freak when I come out. ;_;

[Asta Kask]

That's really weird - even before I joined my uni's LGBT society, I knew at least three trans folk, just at uni. And I certainly don't know 3000 people.

Maybe Natalie's estimation is wrong. Or maybe it varies by context (in fact, I'd be surprised it didn't) and you're speaking from a different context. Or maybe you hit the jackpot, so to say.

[Heliomance]

Maybe Natalie's estimation is wrong. Or maybe it varies by context (in fact, I'd be surprised it didn't) and you're speaking from a different context. Or maybe you hit the jackpot, so to say.

I'm sure it does vary by context. It's just, that's a pretty extreme variation. Including people I met at the LGBT society, I know at least 6 trans folk, possibly one or two other that I'm forgetting. Plus myself, of course.

[Asta Kask]

AFAIK, I don't know any in real life. But who knows?

As I said, she might have been wrong. We're doing order of magnitue estimates here.

[noparlpf]

One in a thousand is about the same as three in a thousand. Close enough.

[Coidzor]

Maybe Natalie's estimation is wrong. Or maybe it varies by context (in fact, I'd be surprised it didn't) and you're speaking from a different context. Or maybe you hit the jackpot, so to say.

Well, was she extrapolating from solid data using a good methodology? If not, then, yeah, she's probably wrong, much like any other shot in the dark.

[Asta Kask]

Well, was she extrapolating from solid data using a good methodology? If not, then, yeah, she's probably wrong, much like any other shot in the dark.

Nope, she was guessing. But you can come very far with that. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem)

[Mono Vertigo]

That's pretty much the reason I like criticising shows and other fiction, aside from being very interested in making them. They are the way to show people, many people, that being trans, gay, bi, pan, Muslim, Hindu, black, brown, disabled, non-neurotypical or anything else is not some strange monstrous Other that they don't have to deal with. Fiction's what's behind people I've worked with assuming that gay people walk special, that crossdressing is pathetic and gross, that gender-neutrality is stupid and wrong, that it's all right to tell the only cis woman present to wear a bikini, and so on. Fiction's also what might tell people around me to see trans people as actual people, as it somewhat has with gay people (I say somewhat, because my family is generally fine with that, though harbours stereotypes, while they seem scared of the possibility that I could be anything but a man ;_;)

Several people mentioned knowing or knowing people who know trans people. I don't know anyone but me and the few people I met at the city's lone LGBT organisation. Closest to knowing someone else GRSM has so far been hearing that one person is openly gay in my 200+ university class/year/thingy. From people who acted as if that made her a freak.

Sorry, just... that's why I really care about representation in fiction. There's nothing else to show that I'm not a freak when I come out. ;_;

I agree completely!
Just, if you're replying this because of my comment about Bones and other shows... what I wanted to say was that it's not really worth debating how justified a character would be in ignoring a phenomenon she should have studied, because it's not the first time her writers made shoddy research; and that it's sadly not the only show to be less than great about LGBT issues. It's not special, and not really worth debating IMHO.
I did not mean to say that the status quo was fine. It's not. There's no in-universe reason for an overwhelming majority of shows not to show more minorities without necessarily making it a plot point. Status quo needs to change. We need to reach a point where minorities won't be portrayed badly because of lack of research (because after all, one doesn't need to do any research when writing a cis, male, white character in the western world). I hope it's real soon. It'll be nice to have shows with a lot more minorities, who'd have the same variety and depth of characterization as those we usually see now. Representation in fiction is very important, especially given it's one of the main ways nowadays one learns about their own culture, society, and basic facts.
Hope you didn't think I was dismissing criticisms about media; they're deserved, it just might not be worth pointing at examples of a trend if we're not trying to educate or convince someone.

TL;DR: I agree with you! And you're not a freak. Or we can be freaks all together, whichever you prefer. Everybody's a freak one way or another anyway, even if they don't know it.

[mistformsquirrl]

Ever have one of those moments where you feel like your presence is just an irritation to everyone you know, online or off? Yeah, I'm having one of those days. I was doing well earlier, and then as the day has drug on it's just felt like more and more little signs pointing toward "You are annoying, go away" <x.x> Which probably isn't *true* - but my brain seems to care little about facts when it gets like this.

Bleh.

On the upside I'm surprisingly decent at Hearthstone, surely that's a marketable skill.

[TaiLiu]

Ever have one of those moments where you feel like your presence is just an irritation to everyone you know, online or off? Yeah, I'm having one of those days. I was doing well earlier, and then as the day has drug on it's just felt like more and more little signs pointing toward "You are annoying, go away" <x.x> Which probably isn't *true* - but my brain seems to care little about facts when it gets like this.

Bleh.

On the upside I'm surprisingly decent at Hearthstone, surely that's a marketable skill.
I'm sorry to hear that. We'd be happy to type to you.

[mistformsquirrl]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said anything <~.~>; just feeling lousy and trying to keep my spirits up by talking to people <x.x> But I'm just being a pain in the neck. Err... no pun intended given my current vampire kick.

[TaiLiu]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said anything <~.~>; just feeling lousy and trying to keep my spirits up by talking to people <x.x> But I'm just being a pain in the neck. Err... no pun intended given my current vampire kick.
Your current vampire kick...?

[mistformsquirrl]

Try not to laugh too hard lol; but I've never been good at playing evil characters in D&D/Pathfinder/etc... So in an effort to broaden my horizons I've decided to play a vampiric oracle in my next pathfinder game. ... and it's kind of gotten me in this weird "Vampires are cool" mood. <. .>; I do not pretend to be normal.

I just get these weird focuses on single topics and they sort of absorb me for awhile. Last week it was dragons, the month before that, dinosaurs, this week, vampires.

[Eldest]

Ever have one of those moments where you feel like your presence is just an irritation to everyone you know, online or off? Yeah, I'm having one of those days. I was doing well earlier, and then as the day has drug on it's just felt like more and more little signs pointing toward "You are annoying, go away" <x.x> Which probably isn't *true* - but my brain seems to care little about facts when it gets like this.

Bleh.

On the upside I'm surprisingly decent at Hearthstone, surely that's a marketable skill.

You're not irritating! D: And Hearthstone is suprisingly hard for me, I'm figuring out what's a decent "mana" curve and what's too fast/slow. (Fun fact, I know the guy who figured out the idea of a mana curve. :D)


Try not to laugh too hard lol; but I've never been good at playing evil characters in D&D/Pathfinder/etc... So in an effort to broaden my horizons I've decided to play a vampiric oracle in my next pathfinder game. ... and it's kind of gotten me in this weird "Vampires are cool" mood. <. .>; I do not pretend to be normal.

I just get these weird focuses on single topics and they sort of absorb me for awhile. Last week it was dragons, the month before that, dinosaurs, this week, vampires.

Eh, I'm planning on doing a vampire character sometime soon. Not that odd, honestly.

[TaiLiu]

Try not to laugh too hard lol; but I've never been good at playing evil characters in D&D/Pathfinder/etc... So in an effort to broaden my horizons I've decided to play a vampiric oracle in my next pathfinder game. ... and it's kind of gotten me in this weird "Vampires are cool" mood. <. .>; I do not pretend to be normal.
Nice, nice. Tell us about your blood-sucking mystic.

I just get these weird focuses on single topics and they sort of absorb me for awhile. Last week it was dragons, the month before that, dinosaurs, this week, vampires.
Ah, I understand! A year ago, I was fanatic about researching the Philippines.

[Proud Tortoise]

I just get these weird focuses on single topics and they sort of absorb me for awhile. Last week it was dragons, the month before that, dinosaurs, this week, vampires.

Some of my longer ones have been heraldry, cathedral architecture, various webcomics, and torture methods. 38/

[mistformsquirrl]

I'm glad I'm not being too irritating. I just feel like I'm always in the darn way, being a pest or just rambling on about strange things no one else cares about hehe <;_;>

@TaiLiu - Oddly enough, I'm using the Oracle as a chassis for something akin to a World of Warcraft death knight. I know it's a strange concept, but it works surprisingly well; though if I am allowed to play a Vampire I may actually go Cleric now that I think about it. We'll just have to see how that works out really I guess.

<. .> I don't have much in the way of backstory yet though - merely that I want her to be someone who was turned against her will, but grew to enjoy vampirism. She *thinks* she's a pretty good person all around - she steps in to save innocent villagers from marauders and the like; her logic being that the strong (her) are to help the weak. That said, she also believes that in order to maintain her strength (ie: vampirism) she has to suck blood - and while it's unfortunate, the deaths of a few peasants no one will miss is a small price to pay for the lives of the rest of the village she just saved.

That's what I'm going with so far anyway.

[TaiLiu]

I'm glad I'm not being too irritating. I just feel like I'm always in the darn way, being a pest or just rambling on about strange things no one else cares about hehe <;_;>

@TaiLiu - Oddly enough, I'm using the Oracle as a chassis for something akin to a World of Warcraft death knight. I know it's a strange concept, but it works surprisingly well; though if I am allowed to play a Vampire I may actually go Cleric now that I think about it. We'll just have to see how that works out really I guess.

<. .> I don't have much in the way of backstory yet though - merely that I want her to be someone who was turned against her will, but grew to enjoy vampirism. She *thinks* she's a pretty good person all around - she steps in to save innocent villagers from marauders and the like; her logic being that the strong (her) are to help the weak. That said, she also believes that in order to maintain her strength (ie: vampirism) she has to suck blood - and while it's unfortunate, the deaths of a few peasants no one will miss is a small price to pay for the lives of the rest of the village she just saved.

That's what I'm going with so far anyway.
Ah, grey mortality. Interesting.

[Lentrax]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said anything <~.~>; just feeling lousy and trying to keep my spirits up by talking to people <x.x> But I'm just being a pain in the neck. Err... no pun intended given my current vampire kick.

You would be hard pressed to irritate us, Misty.

... And I like Vampires. :smallredface:

[TaiLiu]

... And I like Vampires. :smallredface:
Capitalised...?

[Lentrax]

Eh. my mind ran to a V:tR game I'm in, so yeah, I was thinking "Oh, it's a title, better capitalize that V."

*shrug*

[TaiLiu]

Eh. my mind ran to a V:tR game I'm in, so yeah, I was thinking "Oh, it's a title, better capitalize that V."

*shrug*
Ah! Tell us about this game.

[cavalieredraghi]

oh a game, I'd love to hear about it.

And to Mist: what is Hearthstone?

[Serpentine]

I do believe that would be Vampire: The Requiem. Larp or tabletop, Lentrax?

edit: Latest Scandinavia and the World (http://satwcomic.com/no-surprise). Thoughts?
(I wonder what Sister Thailand is like...)

edit mk. 2: Oh, and SMBC has a same-sex couple again. Neat.

[SiuiS]

I just read an interesting article and I thought I'd share it in this thread:
http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1695510/jens-lehmann-players-nuts-come-gay?cc=5739

(Let it be noted that Lehmann has always been a controversial figure)
How well do sports and homosexuality mix?

I think it's cute that his heart is in the right place; "you won't have fun when you play"~

Sports? Sports are weird. Professional sports is an isolated and insular thing, and when you stop and think about it, it's literally seeded with highschool and immediate-college athletes, many of whom are convinced that they should focus every iota of energy into being good at sports so they can bypass having to be good at life.


Also not every trans person wants to be out. I mean they may be out by definition of living as their gender, but it doesn't mean they want anyone they work with to know it.
For instance when I transitioned at work I talked to my HR guy and he talked to his bosses and there was no procedure in place as as far as anyone in the company knew nobody else employed is trans, or at least they have not spoken with HR about being trans - and this is a company with 200,000 employees.

Coming out as trans is, from a personal perspective, possibly not something that has to be ongoing (I'm assuming still being binary here). Once you're out, and if you are passing completely, you can basically live your life the way you want and that's that aside from doctors really, but that would probably carry over from the past.
However if you're a gay man, you need to constantly come out when you tell people about your boyfriend, or that you don't have one and want to ask a cute guy out etc etc - it's a constantly visible issue so people are automatically going to be aware of it more.

Though oddly, like delusion, basically everyone I've come out to has a trans friend / friend of a friend, yet I'd never (knowingly) met a trans person in my life. But then again, that's sort of my point (what little point there is) - trans people do their thing like everyone else, it just doesn't come up most of the time.


Semi related: via my grandma: "I was talking to [downstairs neighbour] and she kept thinking it was the same as being gay. I kept saying that, no, [trans stuff] is to do with them, while being gay is about the other person." Pleasantly amusing :smallsmile:


They do tend to be naked within about a minute or so due to having even their underwear stolen off their butts, aye. :smalltongue:



More the scientifically justifying the existence and acknowledgement of trans issues and arguing back and forth about it reminded me of a more meta version of events I'd witnessed in the past.

Granted, my eyes did start to glaze over about 3/4 of the way through, so that might have influenced my interpretation and my feeling like it was familiar.



I really wish that wasn't as much of a term as it was. XD I keep hearing the theme song for the show.

My recollection is that it's neither baby steps all the way or a sea change from one single event. It seems more like it's been fits, starts, stalls, and occasional sprints, but I'm only a casual student of the history involved across multiple nations.


As a cat owner, I must be on my guard for quantum phenomena. (http://www.improb.com/airchives/paperair/volume4/v4i2/cat.htm)


Ever have one of those moments where you feel like your presence is just an irritation to everyone you know, online or off? Yeah, I'm having one of those days. I was doing well earlier, and then as the day has drug on it's just felt like more and more little signs pointing toward "You are annoying, go away" <x.x> Which probably isn't *true* - but my brain seems to care little about facts when it gets like this.

Bleh.

On the upside I'm surprisingly decent at Hearthstone, surely that's a marketable skill.

Yeah, I do that. Luckily, I have cats. Buttermilk – the ten kilo bruiser who does pull ups and parkour, even compared to other cats – will actually lead me to the bedroom, wait for me to crawl under the blankets, and then follow suit and spoon me. XD

Makes it awkward when anther cat jumps on the bed though. They're all "what's going on here?" And I'm like "Teacup no, you're balancing on your brother's skull!"


Some of my longer ones have been heraldry, cathedral architecture, various webcomics, and torture methods. 38/

Ooh, anything neat about the architecture you can tell us?

Torture has always been an ongoing thing, but unless you're into the historical aspect it fades fast.
You hit this plateau where you either stop learning or start practicing.

[Lentrax]

Ah! Tell us about this game.

Not much to tell yet. I'm sadly not sure how much longer the game will be running though which makes me sad.


oh a game, I'd love to hear about it.

And to Mist: what is Hearthstone?

Hearthstone is the Warcraft themed digital card game, IIRC.


I do believe that would be Vampire: The Requiem. Larp or tabletop, Lentrax?

I suppose it would be tabletop, but we are playing here in the playground.

[Serpentine]

Ah, gotcha. There's a pretty big World of Darkness LARP group here, which includes Requiem (and Sabbat, and Masquerade...), thus the curiosity.
On a related semi-on topic matter, if I manage to convince a new friend to give it a go that'll be two trans people in the games. Also one gay man, I think a few bi or bi-ish people, possibly a couple of polies, and one girl who I think might be some sort of non-gendernormative, but only through circumstancial evidence. There's also a character in one of the games who, as I understand it, changes their sex from game to game and is gynosexual, their girlfriend, one who is a lesbian, one who used to be the lesbian's girlfriend but forgot (not sure what her sexuality is now), and also a gay vampire being played by a straight man (who is dating a trans woman). I get the impression that the general consensus is that being turned into a vampire immediately makes most people bisexual (at least for women), but otherwise the games seem to have a pretty interesting mix. Certainly no one's orientation, and often not even their sex or gender, is assumed.

edit:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1551550_10151899072512532_701913502_n.jpg

[KenderWizard]

That's really weird - even before I joined my uni's LGBT society, I knew at least three trans folk, just at uni. And I certainly don't know 3000 people.


I wonder how many people you do know? Maybe more than you think? Pick the least-close trans person, and try to estimate how many people you know as well as or better than them; family, extended family, schoolmates, college mates, LGBT group, family friends, townspeople... Humans are supposed to have 150 people they know well, but an individual might know a lot more, especially upper middle class well educated people, which I think you are?



edit: Latest Scandinavia and the World (http://satwcomic.com/no-surprise). Thoughts?
(I wonder what Sister Thailand is like...)


I find that super adorable.

I'm getting fed up with bisexual stuff in media again. Maybe rant later... I'm very unwell right now.

[mistformsquirrl]

Thanks everyone <x.x> My depression has been acting up seriously and it's just helpful to have a place to go where people are nice <;_;>m I don't mean to be a pest with it.

@CavalierDraghi - Hearthstone is as Lentrax noted, a collectible card-game you play online, done by Blizzard. < . .> It's fun for me since I used to LOVE Magic: The Gathering in days long past, and it's even more accessible than that.

[Astrella]

Exams over. Lena sleep now. ZZZzzzZZZ.

[Asta Kask]

I'm very unwell right now.

:smallfrown:

Nothing serious I hope?

[The Succubus]

Exams over. Lena sleep now. ZZZzzzZZZ.

*hugs* Sleep well. You've earned it.

[Lentrax]

Ah, gotcha. There's a pretty big World of Darkness LARP group here, which includes Requiem (and Sabbat, and Masquerade...), thus the curiosity.
On a related semi-on topic matter, if I manage to convince a new friend to give it a go that'll be two trans people in the games. Also one gay man, I think a few bi or bi-ish people, possibly a couple of polies, and one girl who I think might be some sort of non-gendernormative, but only through circumstancial evidence. There's also a character in one of the games who, as I understand it, changes their sex from game to game and is gynosexual, their girlfriend, one who is a lesbian, one who used to be the lesbian's girlfriend but forgot (not sure what her sexuality is now), and also a gay vampire being played by a straight man (who is dating a trans woman). I get the impression that the general consensus is that being turned into a vampire immediately makes most people bisexual (at least for women), but otherwise the games seem to have a pretty interesting mix. Certainly no one's orientation, and often not even their sex or gender, is assumed.

edit:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1551550_10151899072512532_701913502_n.jpg

Yeah, I personally don't do LARP. It just seemed so... silly(?) to me. Like working out spells and powers and all that weird stuff that comes from being fantasy characters. It just isn't me.

(Well I did have a lightsaber duel with someone once, but that was promotional for Episode II when it came out...)

[NeroGrimm]

Hello, all~!
I'm fairly new to this site, and I'd just like to say that I love that this is such a big thread that you've had to restart it 47 times. A little about myself: I'm a twenty-year old pansexual male living in America, but I was born in Germany. I speak absolutely no German that isn't a curse word or somehow alluding to an insult of some kind, and I love love love animals. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is by far one of my favourite shows, right behind Doctor Who, and I listen to almost all types of music but only play bass and sing punk/grunge/anything from the 90's with a great bassline. Ta-da! There you go. I plan to come back here fairly often.

[Asta Kask]

Must... resist... tasteless... joke...

:smallsmile:

Hi NeroGrimm! Welcome to the thread. Don't drink anything Lix hands you.

[Coidzor]

On a related semi-on topic matter, if I manage to convince a new friend to give it a go that'll be two trans people in the games. Also one gay man, I think a few bi or bi-ish people, possibly a couple of polies, and one girl who I think might be some sort of non-gendernormative, but only through circumstancial evidence. There's also a character in one of the games who, as I understand it, changes their sex from game to game and is gynosexual, their girlfriend, one who is a lesbian, one who used to be the lesbian's girlfriend but forgot (not sure what her sexuality is now), and also a gay vampire being played by a straight man (who is dating a trans woman). I get the impression that the general consensus is that being turned into a vampire immediately makes most people bisexual (at least for women), but otherwise the games seem to have a pretty interesting mix. Certainly no one's orientation, and often not even their sex or gender, is assumed.

It's really popular with GSRM individuals from what I've seen, to the point where IIRC there was actually some pressure against playing a straight or asexual vampire when I investigated joining a group. Granted, from what I recall, this group also fragmented into some kind of reportedly LGBT-only club, a group of various poly individuals and families that were accused of treating the game and group as a meat market and got into trouble for going over newcomers like they were horses and fighting over who had claim to them sexually, and then the leftovers which apparently tried to form a new group but were pretty anemic due to having been gutted of the core membership.

...I feel like I've said all this to you before though...


I wonder how many people you do know? Maybe more than you think? Pick the least-close trans person, and try to estimate how many people you know as well as or better than them; family, extended family, schoolmates, college mates, LGBT group, family friends, townspeople... Humans are supposed to have 150 people they know well, but an individual might know a lot more, especially upper middle class well educated people, which I think you are?

I'm getting fed up with bisexual stuff in media again. Maybe rant later... I'm very unwell right now.

Depends on if somebody that I used to know counts as least-close or not, I suppose.

Well, if you want to. We always like to hear from you even if circumstances are not the best. More importantly, get well soon.

[Philemonite]

Hello, all~!
I'm fairly new to this site, and I'd just like to say that I love that this is such a big thread that you've had to restart it 47 times. A little about myself: I'm a twenty-year old pansexual male living in America, but I was born in Germany. I speak absolutely no German that isn't a curse word or somehow alluding to an insult of some kind, and I love love love animals. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is by far one of my favourite shows, right behind Doctor Who, and I listen to almost all types of music but only play bass and sing punk/grunge/anything from the 90's with a great bassline. Ta-da! There you go. I plan to come back here fairly often.

Well, there is a 50 pages per thread limit. And we do have a lot of things to say.:smalltongue:

Welcome, to the thread.:smallwink:

[Lentrax]

Hello, all~!
I'm fairly new to this site, and I'd just like to say that I love that this is such a big thread that you've had to restart it 47 times. A little about myself: I'm a twenty-year old pansexual male living in America, but I was born in Germany. I speak absolutely no German that isn't a curse word or somehow alluding to an insult of some kind, and I love love love animals. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is by far one of my favourite shows, right behind Doctor Who, and I listen to almost all types of music but only play bass and sing punk/grunge/anything from the 90's with a great bassline. Ta-da! There you go. I plan to come back here fairly often.

Welcome! We do have some forms for you to fill out, mostly medical stuff, indemnifying us of any responsibility should Lea our resident Spider-Girl comes in and gives you a welcoming bite.

Other than that, we have some cake, and pretzels, and there were cookies somewhere... Hmm. Lost the cookies.

But Welcome!

[Zorg]

Hello, all~!
I'm fairly new to this site, and I'd just like to say that I love that this is such a big thread that you've had to restart it 47 times. A little about myself: I'm a twenty-year old pansexual male living in America, but I was born in Germany. I speak absolutely no German that isn't a curse word or somehow alluding to an insult of some kind, and I love love love animals. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is by far one of my favourite shows, right behind Doctor Who, and I listen to almost all types of music but only play bass and sing punk/grunge/anything from the 90's with a great bassline. Ta-da! There you go. I plan to come back here fairly often.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/60c0c94c690e752b54edb4b57f065552/tumblr_mys51feQGC1r3nwsxo1_500.jpg


And what's with all the Vampire games of late? Not a bad thing but it seems everyone's getting into it. My last session managed a double cross, game changing reveal and an inter-party betrayal in the last half hour which was quite impressive.

[Lentrax]

IDK, I just got the urge a while ago. Like when I got the urge to volunteer to run a Legend of Zelda themed campaign here.

(And what is that pic from?)

[Zorg]

Binbougami Ga / Good Luck Girl - it's available free online on Crunchyroll or Madman in Australia. It's um... a unique show (https://24.media.tumblr.com/379bf4cd1b696e8e41a094230f65628c/tumblr_mwr19rHYco1s8wz7no1_1280.jpg) :smalltongue:

[Lentrax]

I will have to check it out. I like weird random stuff.

[Serpentine]

Yeah, I personally don't do LARP. It just seemed so... silly(?) to me.Oh for sure, it totally is. I prefer tabletop, too, to be honest, but the first 20 people I met up here LARP.


It's really popular with GSRM individuals from what I've seen, to the point where IIRC there was actually some pressure against playing a straight or asexual vampire when I investigated joining a group. Granted, from what I recall, this group also fragmented into some kind of reportedly LGBT-only club, a group of various poly individuals and families that were accused of treating the game and group as a meat market and got into trouble for going over newcomers like they were horses and fighting over who had claim to them sexually, and then the leftovers which apparently tried to form a new group but were pretty anemic due to having been gutted of the core membership.

...I feel like I've said all this to you before though...
I could believe that, though I don't think it's as bad here. It is very incestuous, though, with just about everyone having dated just about everyone else at one point or another. Year before last it apparently caused a big problem, when just about everyone (6-odd different couples) all broke up at once. A lot of the larpers seem to have strong connections to the local kink scene, too.

[Asta Kask]

Soooo, do ever all of these people have to get remove disease at their genitals all at once?

[NeroGrimm]

Welcome! We do have some forms for you to fill out, mostly medical stuff, indemnifying us of any responsibility should Lea our resident Spider-Girl comes in and gives you a welcoming bite.

Other than that, we have some cake, and pretzels, and there were cookies somewhere... Hmm. Lost the cookies.

But Welcome!
I'm pretty good with forms. That's a shame about the cookies, though.

Must... resist... tasteless... joke...

:smallsmile:

Hi NeroGrimm! Welcome to the thread. Don't drink anything Lix hands you.
And now I'm legally obligated to drink everything Lix hands me.

Well, there is a 50 pages per thread limit. And we do have a lot of things to say.:smalltongue:

Welcome, to the thread.:smallwink:

Thank you all so much! ^_^

[Eldest]

And now I'm legally obligated to drink everything Lix hands me.

Then you get to discover what the Bishi Plane is very quickly. :P

[Serpentine]

Soooo, do ever all of these people have to get remove disease at their genitals all at once?
I haven't heard anything along those lines... I think they're mostly pretty safe.

[Mina Kobold]

I agree completely!
Just, if you're replying this because of my comment about Bones and other shows... what I wanted to say was that it's not really worth debating how justified a character would be in ignoring a phenomenon she should have studied, because it's not the first time her writers made shoddy research; and that it's sadly not the only show to be less than great about LGBT issues. It's not special, and not really worth debating IMHO.
I did not mean to say that the status quo was fine. It's not. There's no in-universe reason for an overwhelming majority of shows not to show more minorities without necessarily making it a plot point. Status quo needs to change. We need to reach a point where minorities won't be portrayed badly because of lack of research (because after all, one doesn't need to do any research when writing a cis, male, white character in the western world). I hope it's real soon. It'll be nice to have shows with a lot more minorities, who'd have the same variety and depth of characterization as those we usually see now. Representation in fiction is very important, especially given it's one of the main ways nowadays one learns about their own culture, society, and basic facts.
Hope you didn't think I was dismissing criticisms about media; they're deserved, it just might not be worth pointing at examples of a trend if we're not trying to educate or convince someone.

TL;DR: I agree with you! And you're not a freak. Or we can be freaks all together, whichever you prefer. Everybody's a freak one way or another anyway, even if they don't know it.


Sorry, I know it's mostly pointless. It's just, I don't exactly think I have much more than 90 years left at best and society is changing so slowly, always telling me that things are fine and that I shouldn't bother pointing out problems. Not here, this thread is wonderful, but pretty much everywhere offline. Kinda makes me want to make as much noise about it as possible and force it to change, not helped by my rather big fandom of shows and other works involving kicking evil's butt when it's being all oppressive and evil. ^_^'

Being freaks together sounds pretty fun, yeah. Still sad I don't even get lightning powers for it, though. D:


Try not to laugh too hard lol; but I've never been good at playing evil characters in D&D/Pathfinder/etc... So in an effort to broaden my horizons I've decided to play a vampiric oracle in my next pathfinder game. ... and it's kind of gotten me in this weird "Vampires are cool" mood. <. .>; I do not pretend to be normal.

I just get these weird focuses on single topics and they sort of absorb me for awhile. Last week it was dragons, the month before that, dinosaurs, this week, vampires.

Hey, I spend almost all of the last three days or so burning through Buffy season 7 and Angel season 4. Wouldn't even have stopped if not because I ran out of more of them, so I can't exactly say it's weird or bad to be obsessed with vampires. ^_~

Dragons and dinosaurs on top of vampires just makes you a really cool squirrel too, so indeed not normal. Much better than normal. ^_^


Exams over. Lena sleep now. ZZZzzzZZZ.

Sleep well! :smallsmile:


Hello, all~!
I'm fairly new to this site, and I'd just like to say that I love that this is such a big thread that you've had to restart it 47 times. A little about myself: I'm a twenty-year old pansexual male living in America, but I was born in Germany. I speak absolutely no German that isn't a curse word or somehow alluding to an insult of some kind, and I love love love animals. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is by far one of my favourite shows, right behind Doctor Who, and I listen to almost all types of music but only play bass and sing punk/grunge/anything from the 90's with a great bassline. Ta-da! There you go. I plan to come back here fairly often.

Hi! Welcome to the thread, hope you'll enjoy your stay. ^_^

[Asta Kask]

Sorry, I know it's mostly pointless. It's just, I don't exactly think I have much more than 90 years left at best and society is changing so slowly, always telling me that things are fine and that I shouldn't bother pointing out problems. Not here, this thread is wonderful, but pretty much everywhere offline. Kinda makes me want to make as much noise about it as possible and force it to change, not helped by my rather big fandom of shows and other works involving kicking evil's butt when it's being all oppressive and evil. ^_^'

Being freaks together sounds pretty fun, yeah. Still sad I don't even get lightning powers for it, though. D:

Well, compared to the rest of history it's probably better than anytime else. Still room for improvement.

Is this sexist? (http://www.themonsterfactory.com/man-wrap-blue.html)

[Mono Vertigo]

*grumbles* [Redacted] bigots in the news again, but what's angering me most is not the bigotry, but the utter and complete gullibility they're showing.
A chain text (like a chain mail, but it's a text) has been circulating, warning parents that it's planned that gender theory* should become a subject in school, and that sexual education should be introduced in maternal school (aka to 3-6 year olds), along with demonstrations(?!).
Needless to say, this is a hoax.
Still, way too many parents took the chain text seriously, and pulled their kids out of school. The government is now trying to convince them that no such thing is going to happen, and besides, school is mandatory, so they better get their kids' asses back to school.
Also, several parents did "their research" and googled that. Predictably, they stumbled upon websites supporting that crap, therefore they thought it was 200% justified. Because nothing is a lie on the Internet, and if someone made up such an outrageous rumor, they certainly don't have a website about it. Also why I don't trust people to educate themselves.

*People are exceedingly worked-up over the idea gender (by which they mostly mean "gender expression") is a lot more social than biological. Some scream that kids are being "murdered" because they might be confused and think they're boys while having a female body, or the other way round. Yeah, I know.
The bigotry displayed is terrible.
More alarmingly though, there are grown people, who themselves have responsibility over children, who are ready to believe any text they get that does not cite a source and predicts wildly unplausible events. Come ON. How the hell did you guys reach adulthood while being such flaming morons?
I'm so tempted to spread my own stupid rumour, the only thing that's stopping me right now is that I don't know what rumour I should spread. I'm aware it's a bad idea, but right now, I'm just so irritated, and there's nothing I'm allowed to break here, so it's going to sound like a good idea until I calm down.

@NeroGrimm: Welcome here! :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

The government plans to introduce mandatory soldier training for the boys and nurse training for the girls, to provide soldiers for the planned takeover of the world?

[Mono Vertigo]

The government plans to introduce mandatory soldier training for the boys and nurse training for the girls, to provide soldiers for the planned takeover of the world?
Good god I wish, I'm struggling to pass that damn exam to be a nurse AND ind the money to fund the studies!
No, that's the gheyz. I forgot to mention that part (don't know why, as it was one of the most memorably stupid part), they're also blaming the gheyz for that rumoured change in curriculum. Wish I was making this up.
Why the hell am I still watching the news when I know perfectly well that every week it's going to show another kind of idiot living way too close to me? Whyyy

[Asta Kask]

The gays are all the children of Deep Ones and join during Pride Parades to summon Great Cthulhu to swallow all honest-to-unspecified-deity heterosexuals?

Or just that the gays will be eaten first? (http://webspace.webring.com/people/ug/goldenmonkey/cthulhutract.html)

[Mono Vertigo]

The gays are all the children of Deep Ones and join during Pride Parades to summon Great Cthulhu to swallow all honest-to-unspecified-deity heterosexuals?

Or just that the gays will be eaten first? (http://webspace.webring.com/people/ug/goldenmonkey/cthulhutract.html)
I don't believe they have the culture and intellectual curiosity required to know what Deep Ones or Great Cthulhu are. If they did, half my problem wouldn't exist in the first place.

[Mina Kobold]

Well, compared to the rest of history it's probably better than anytime else. Still room for improvement.

Is this sexist? (http://www.themonsterfactory.com/man-wrap-blue.html)

In this country? Sure, but so has pretty much every year since the nation stopped having wars with Germany or Sweden. Even the last war wasn't as bad as everyday life once was, and present day is far far beyond that. Still a lot of issues, though, and while I much appreciate not having all my metaphorical bones broken, the ones that are still hurt. ^_^'

It is sexist. It specifically describes what it does as making the user man up, implying this act is only a masculine one, and it is based on being something only for men. Thus it is based on the target group's gender as a factor that alters their potential need for a product that helps wrapping presents. In other words: If you're a man, you want to get quickly through wrapping, if you're not a man, you don't want that.

In conclusion: A squad of penguins will be send to angrily stare at them until they realise their misdeed.


*grumbles* [Redacted] bigots in the news again, but what's angering me most is not the bigotry, but the utter and complete gullibility they're showing.
A chain text (like a chain mail, but it's a text) has been circulating, warning parents that it's planned that gender theory* should become a subject in school, and that sexual education should be introduced in maternal school (aka to 3-6 year olds), along with demonstrations(?!).
Needless to say, this is a hoax.
Still, way too many parents took the chain text seriously, and pulled their kids out of school. The government is now trying to convince them that no such thing is going to happen, and besides, school is mandatory, so they better get their kids' asses back to school.
Also, several parents did "their research" and googled that. Predictably, they stumbled upon websites supporting that crap, therefore they thought it was 200% justified. Because nothing is a lie on the Internet, and if someone made up such an outrageous rumor, they certainly don't have a website about it. Also why I don't trust people to educate themselves.

*People are exceedingly worked-up over the idea gender (by which they mostly mean "gender expression") is a lot more social than biological. Some scream that kids are being "murdered" because they might be confused and think they're boys while having a female body, or the other way round. Yeah, I know.
The bigotry displayed is terrible.
More alarmingly though, there are grown people, who themselves have responsibility over children, who are ready to believe any text they get that does not cite a source and predicts wildly unplausible events. Come ON. How the hell did you guys reach adulthood while being such flaming morons?
I'm so tempted to spread my own stupid rumour, the only thing that's stopping me right now is that I don't know what rumour I should spread. I'm aware it's a bad idea, but right now, I'm just so irritated, and there's nothing I'm allowed to break here, so it's going to sound like a good idea until I calm down.


That actually made my head and desk meet. Luckily not very painfully, but it takes a lot of scary gullibility to make me move stuff enough to do that. >_<

I agree that it may be a bad idea, but I support the idea of making a false rumour. At the very least, it's a chance to show how easy it is to make something like that, which may at least get some people to be better sceptics. It's been done by professional magicians in regards to some beliefs before. No idea what rumour to do, though... >_>

PS: On a positive note, I am not sure it would have caused much trouble around here. My school did the, sadly so cisheteronormative that it burns, sex ed twice. Once in the smaller classes (likely before we were ten, possibly around when we were eight. My memory is bad about what age I was when something happened) and once or twice later on. Not sure anyone even knows that gender theory is a thing, though. v_v

[Asta Kask]

I don't believe they have the culture and intellectual curiosity required to know what Deep Ones or Great Cthulhu are. If they did, half my problem wouldn't exist in the first place.

Well if they knew what it was they wouldn't fall for it, would they?

[Mono Vertigo]

BF, being lucky enough to miss 80% of the news due to work, just found it out. He's not even paying attention to it, like every time news outrage me, just amused I got so angry on my own. He's got a couple points.
... I'm still at the point where I think a stupid counter-rumor is a good idea, though. So I should probably play Team Fortress 2 and fall to cartoony, senseless violence until I forget why I was angry in the first place.

Well if they knew what it was they wouldn't fall for it, would they?
... mmhhh. Not a bad point.

[Lauren]

Our local Pride Parade is this Sunday.

The weather forecast says 41C/106F.

I feel bad about not getting out there, especially since I missed last year's parade due to illness, but I am pretty sure I will literally melt if I have to walk the parade route and to and from the parade venue in that weather.

[Asta Kask]

Our local Pride Parade is this Sunday.

The weather forecast says 41C/106F.

I feel bad about not getting out there, especially since I missed last year's parade due to illness, but I am pretty sure I will literally melt if I have to walk the parade route and to and from the parade venue in that weather.

Will you try to summon Cthulhu?

[NeroGrimm]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn?

[Mono Vertigo]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn?

Thanks to you, I'm now typing from the belly thing what the hell is this belly of an Old One.
Mind, I receive Wifi just fine from here, so I don't mind that much.

[Lentrax]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn?

Thank you for calling the Eldritch evil contact center. For English press one. If you know the extension of the Horror you are trying to reach, you may dial it at any time. For a complete listing of current Employees, please press 6. To speak with an operator please dial 0, or remain on the line.

[NeroGrimm]

Thanks to you, I'm now typing from the belly thing what the hell is this belly of an Old One.
Mind, I receive Wifi just fine from here, so I don't mind that much.

It's probably pretty nice in there. I've never been, but I've heard it's lovely this time of year.

[Mina Kobold]

Our local Pride Parade is this Sunday.

The weather forecast says 41C/106F.

I feel bad about not getting out there, especially since I missed last year's parade due to illness, but I am pretty sure I will literally melt if I have to walk the parade route and to and from the parade venue in that weather.

F-forty-one degrees?

... *Faints*

That's hot. ._.


Will you try to summon Cthulhu?

Summoning up the dead ones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_NYNuAdIv0) isn't a bad idea either. :3

*Dances off, singing songs of summoning*

[Coidzor]

Our local Pride Parade is this Sunday.

The weather forecast says 41C/106F.

I feel bad about not getting out there, especially since I missed last year's parade due to illness, but I am pretty sure I will literally melt if I have to walk the parade route and to and from the parade venue in that weather.

And that's why you don't have parades in the dead heat of summer. :smallconfused: That's like... people dying from dehydration and other complications hot.

[Mono Vertigo]

It's probably pretty nice in there. I've never been, but I've heard it's lovely this time of year.

Yeah. Warm. Slight rain, but it's refreshing. Raining upside down, though. Also, might actually be blood. Not sure.

[Lentrax]

Just make sure it isn't yours, Mu. :smallwink:

[Mono Vertigo]

Heh, I'm kinda Eldritch Abomination myself. I'm immune to that kind of shenanigans.
Maybe.
Oh hey, there's a souvenir shop, too. Anyone wants me to bring anything back from Old-One-Belly-Land?

[Eldest]

Heh, I'm kinda Eldritch Abomination myself. I'm immune to that kind of shenanigans.
Maybe.
Oh hey, there's a souvenir shop, too. Anyone wants me to bring anything back from Old-One-Belly-Land?

A mug? I have the start of a collection. (one that I use to drink out of, so I guess it's less a collection and more a bunch of mugs I use?)

[SiuiS]

And now I'm legally obligated to drink everything Lix hands me.

Cool! She's actually not likely to kill you, just make you happier.

I remember once she gave me a ginger ale!


Well, compared to the rest of history it's probably better than anytime else. Still room for improvement.

Is this sexist? (http://www.themonsterfactory.com/man-wrap-blue.html)

Yep.


Thanks to you, I'm now typing from the belly thing what the hell is this belly of an Old One.
Mind, I receive Wifi just fine from here, so I don't mind that much.

I want to model a demon: the descent character off your avvie.

She'll have like five arms, all on the left side of her body. And a samurai sword.


Thank you for calling the Eldritch evil contact center. For English press one. If you know the extension of the Horror you are trying to reach, you may dial it at any time. For a complete listing of current Employees, please press 6. To speak with an operator please dial 0, or remain on the line.

Pffff


F-forty-one degrees?

... *Faints*

That's hot. ._.

Yeah. That's somewhat stuffy. It depends on humidity though, good sparring weather.

[Mono Vertigo]

Okay, mugs! Mugs are always nice. Anything else?

The tangent reminds me of those two NPCs in Shadow Hearts: Covenant. Two French brothers who are fabulously gay, and hilarious. Thing is, they have a traveling shop, and always catch up with you wherever you go. It's not too outlandish when you go to Moscow or London or Tokyo...
... it is when they're ahead of you while you're trapped in an Eldritch Dimension. (IIRC, the main character even freaks out. The shopkeepers have no explanation to that and don't actually care at all.)

I want to model a demon: the descent character off your avvie.

She'll have like five arms, all on the left side of her body. And a samurai sword.


You know, that's funny, because I realized I could translate perfectly well that avatar in D:tD, so now I have a character sheet and a basic character concept lying around. Plus, a Demon is sufficiently close to an Eldritch Abomination.
... by which I don't mean you shouldn't model that character, because I want to see her. They could be Demon sisters.

[Delusion]

Our local Pride Parade is this Sunday.

The weather forecast says 41C/106F.

I feel bad about not getting out there, especially since I missed last year's parade due to illness, but I am pretty sure I will literally melt if I have to walk the parade route and to and from the parade venue in that weather.

Last summer my apartment was about 28-31 celcius. It was so hot I didn't have any energy to do anything and had showers every few hours. I was melting, so I eventually evacuated to my parents place.

How can anyone even survive 41 celcius?!? o.o
Outside of Sauna ofc

[noparlpf]

Heh, I'm kinda Eldritch Abomination myself. I'm immune to that kind of shenanigans.
Maybe.
Oh hey, there's a souvenir shop, too. Anyone wants me to bring anything back from Old-One-Belly-Land?

Ooh, what kind of souvenirs are there?

[Mono Vertigo]

Ooh, what kind of souvenirs are there?
Mugs, snowglobes, keychains, the usual.
They kinda look rainbow. Or they might be colors outside the visual spectrum I usually perceive.



[I keep spawning silly tangents, particularly when I didn't mean to. Godamnit.]

[Selpharia]

Last summer my apartment was about 28-31 celcius. It was so hot I didn't have any energy to do anything and had showers every few hours. I was melting, so I eventually evacuated to my parents place.

How can anyone even survive 41 celcius?!? o.o
Outside of Sauna ofc

Well, some of it has to do with ambient humidity; if it's low, the heat can often feel less oppressive

~Laura

[mistformsquirrl]

Thank you for calling the Eldritch evil contact center. For English press one. If you know the extension of the Horror you are trying to reach, you may dial it at any time. For a complete listing of current Employees, please press 6. To speak with an operator please dial 0, or remain on the line.

My sides hurt so much now lol ><; Wonderful.

[Heliomance]

Heh, I'm kinda Eldritch Abomination myself. I'm immune to that kind of shenanigans.
Maybe.
Oh hey, there's a souvenir shop, too. Anyone wants me to bring anything back from Old-One-Belly-Land?
A Klein bottle maybe?



The tangent reminds me of those two NPCs in Shadow Hearts: Covenant. Two French brothers who are fabulously gay, and hilarious. Thing is, they have a traveling shop, and always catch up with you wherever you go. It's not too outlandish when you go to Moscow or London or Tokyo...
... it is when they're ahead of you while you're trapped in an Eldritch Dimension. (IIRC, the main character even freaks out. The shopkeepers have no explanation to that and don't actually care at all.)

I have many mods in Skyrim, including a quest that autostarts when you hit a certain level, by means of a courier delivering you a message, and commenting that you were hard to track down. The most impressive place he's managed to find me so far is Blackreach, if I run another character I kinda want to try and time it so I'm in the Apocrypha when I hit the right level. That is one dedicated courier.

[Mina Kobold]

Yeah. That's somewhat stuffy. It depends on humidity though, good sparring weather.

Maybe to you, but I'm used to it being record-setting to get above 25 degrees at any point in the summer. I'm usually very uncomfortable before it even gets to 20 degrees. >_<

Plus, I don't like short sleeves or showing much skin at all (makes me dysphoric), so I'd probably overheat no matter the humidity.


How can anyone even survive 41 celcius?!? o.o
Outside of Sauna ofc

I survived, but the few times I've been in saunas, I went for the floor because the heat (it wasn't, as far as I know, anything unusual for a sauna) was painful and suffocating. I really hope I never end up in that kind of heat outside. Scary. ._.

[Proud Tortoise]

I've nearly passed out in hot tubs. I prefer "warm tubs" 38(

[Coidzor]

How can anyone even survive 41 celcius?!? o.o
Outside of Sauna ofc

Lots of water. Not being outside and instead being inside in air conditioning. Staying in the shade and not being particularly active during the heat of the day. But it is weather that can and does kill people.

[TaiLiu]

Hello, all~!
I'm fairly new to this site, and I'd just like to say that I love that this is such a big thread that you've had to restart it 47 times. A little about myself: I'm a twenty-year old pansexual male living in America, but I was born in Germany. I speak absolutely no German that isn't a curse word or somehow alluding to an insult of some kind, and I love love love animals. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is by far one of my favourite shows, right behind Doctor Who, and I listen to almost all types of music but only play bass and sing punk/grunge/anything from the 90's with a great bassline. Ta-da! There you go. I plan to come back here fairly often.
Greetings, NeroGrimm!

[Serpentine]

Lauren: you talking about the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras or something in Melbourne? I think the former is coming up soon. I should find out when it's being broadcast, if I haven't already missed it...

Weather: Queensland, Australia. High humidity heatwaves. No air conditioning. Whee.
It hasn't actually been too bad so far this summer, only got above 40 a few times. Still messes up my sleeping and requires a lot of cold showers. I miss air conditioning -.-

Misc: my sister shared a picture of my nephew wearing a pink fairy dress. He's the prettiest princess XD