Grrl Power Thread #2: The Most Common Super Power

[Traab]

...you realize you just described Contessa from Worm, one of the most brokenly overpowered supers ever.

Nope, never read Worm.

[Douglas]

Nope, never read Worm.
Well, the short version is that Contessa has the power "specify a goal, know how to accomplish it". That power, by itself, makes her the single most capable and dangerous person creature in the entire story, excepting only the god-tier alien monsters - and the only reason they're exceptions is that they have specific special immunity to her power. And this is in a world where a famous super has a power summarized as "have whichever three powers I need right now" (it's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it). Many versions of Superman would fit right in, yet still be second rate compared to her.

[Qwertystop]

Well, the short version is that Contessa has the power "specify a goal, know how to accomplish it". That power, by itself, makes her the single most capable and dangerous person creature in the entire story, excepting only the god-tier alien monsters - and the only reason they're exceptions is that they have specific special immunity to her power. And this is in a world where a famous super has a power summarized as "have whichever three powers I need right now" (it's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it). Many versions of Superman would fit right in, yet still be second rate compared to her.

Notably, this does have a major exception in the fact that some things are undetectable by precognition, apart from the aforementioned specific immunities to Contessa. Her power would be a lot weaker if there were more unpredictables around - for example, if free will was actually a definite, non-deterministic, immune-to-precog thing, she'd be significantly weaker. Dodging? Sure. Hitting, either in melee or with a ranged weapon? Probably, depending on the degree to which she could predict her opponent's motions. Most complex tasks, such as building/inventing/hacking/lockpicking? Great at those. But she wouldn't be automatically able to do ridiculously long-term plans that require significant involvement by other people.

So a lot of her strength is fairly context-sensitive. In Worm, she's great. In a less clockwork universe, less so.

[AvatarVecna]

If Dues is going to have a power, I'd prefer it to be a Thinker power: there doesn't look to be a lot of powers like that in this world, and he'd be a textbook example of how such powers could break a world, given proper use.Putting into perspective, here's a list of some of the most powerful people in Worm:
Contessa, with the "Path to Victory" power. She's not tougher, or faster, or stronger than an average person...she just has basically unlimited precognition; it's worth noting that a couple people are technically immune to her powers, and she can't directly predict them, but she can create mental models that are similar to those immune people that allows her to predict other things even if the precog-immune people get involved.
The Simurgh, who is basically The Phoenix Force from Marvel: city-busting telekinesis, standard psychic powers (mind-reading, mind-control, etc), and post-/pre-cognition on the same level Contessa has, with similar work-arounds for the precog-immune.
Jack Slash, whose two powers are 1) the ability to extend the cutting power of a held knife a long distance, and 2) perfect precognitive reactions to keep him safe from capes and their powers.
Coil, whose power is a weird form of precognition where he basically splits the timeline based around a decision he makes, observe the results in both, and can choose which version he wants to keep; he can only do one timeline-split at a time, and other precogs can screw him up, and he's still one of the most dangerous villains in the series.
Dinah Alcott, who can (a limited number of times per day) calculate the odds of a very particular situation occurring. She got kidnapped by Coil, and is half the reason he's so ridiculously dangerous.
The Number Man is capable of calculating and optimizing basically any scenario, knowing exactly how to fall so as to minimize damage, or how to dodge in such as way as to walk through an insect swarm unharmed.
Accord's power is the ability to solve problems: the harder the problem would normally be, the easier it would be to figure out; the downside is his complete inability to accept the existence of mediocrity with those he involves himself with. He figured out how to solve world hunger, but nobody will listen to him.
Taylor Hebert is the only one on this particular list whose Thinker power is not some form of precognition: her main power is control of bugs with several blocks (originally) and any creature within 16 ft (later on), and her Thinker power allows her to issue commands to all her puppets at the speed of thought, without causing her any sort of slowed-down thought for any body in her hivemind; one mind runs everything, and is not slowed down despite running so many bodies.

Is this every super-dangerous person in the Wormverse, of course not. There's Eidolon (the "any three powers I need" guy, which could be Thinker powers), there's Alexandria (who is basically Superwoman, and has an appropriate Thinker power letting her read body language), there's Legend (a living laser who fires lasers that don't obey the laws of physics), there's the Siberian (a mental projection who is both the unstoppable force and the immovable object), there's Nilbog (who can spawn monsters under his command), there's Dragon (a Lawful Good version of Braniac), there's Glaistig Uaine (who can summon shades of dead capes to do her bidding), there's Lung (whose two powers are "be a dragon" and "get overall better the longer the fight goes"), there's Behemoth (a super-big, super-tough, super-strong, radioactive dynakinetic who uses the Earth's molten core as a hot tub between fights), there's Leviathan (who has macro-hydrakinesis, and has sunken large land-masses before), and there's Sleeper (who's mysteriously powerful, and who's power is only overcome by his mystery). Still, of the powerful people I can remember off the top of my head, nearly half of them were Thinkers of some kind, mostly precognitives of significant power.

[Traab]

A more reasonable version of it would be seeing the spiderweb of potential spread forward through time. The path is there, but there are thousands of paths, none are certain, some are likely, but the best you can do is pick whichever path will most likely lead to your goal. Things like free will, random chance, stuff like that can always throw events off the rails, but it becomes less likely both the shorter term your plan is, and the more certain the path may be. The more complicated your plan, the easier it is for something to go wrong, however, there is the potential to make multiple redundant plans so even if things do go wrong with your initial plan, it can fail in a way that leads to your fallback plan.

[Obscure Blade]

Notably, this does have a major exception in the fact that some things are undetectable by precognition, apart from the aforementioned specific immunities to Contessa. Her power would be a lot weaker if there were more unpredictables around - for example, if free will was actually a definite, non-deterministic, immune-to-precog thing, she'd be significantly weaker. Dodging? Sure. Hitting, either in melee or with a ranged weapon? Probably, depending on the degree to which she could predict her opponent's motions. Most complex tasks, such as building/inventing/hacking/lockpicking? Great at those. But she wouldn't be automatically able to do ridiculously long-term plans that require significant involvement by other people.

So a lot of her strength is fairly context-sensitive. In Worm, she's great. In a less clockwork universe, less so.
Also, a significant reason why she can do what she does is that her power can puppet her own body to incredible levels of precision and detail. This is someone who never bothered to actually learn English because she just lets her power say the right thing through her.

If she just had the precognitive aspect of her power there'd be a lot of things she does in canon Worm that she couldn't pull off because she wouldn't have the precision or skill. So yes; you could give Deus or some other Grrl Power character a watered down version of Contessa's power without breaking the setting, with the right assumptions and limitations. If the future isn't as predictable as it is in Worm and she is limited to human levels of skill and precision she's not so overwhelming.

Canon Contessa would just boringly stomp all over everything, though.

[AvatarVecna]

Also, a significant reason why she can do what she does is that her power can puppet her own body to incredible levels of precision and detail. This is someone who never bothered to actually learn English because she just lets her power say the right thing through her.

If she just had the precognitive aspect of her power there'd be a lot of things she does in canon Worm that she couldn't pull off because she wouldn't have the precision or skill. So yes; you could give Deus or some other Grrl Power character a watered down version of Contessa's power without breaking the setting, with the right assumptions and limitations. If the future isn't as predictable as it is in Worm and she is limited to human levels of skill and precision she's not so overwhelming.

Canon Contessa would just boringly stomp all over everything, though.

Something like that would explain why Dues is keeping himself in tip-top shape physically and mentally: beyond the obvious non-powered advantages of doing so, it makes his power more effective because he himself has become capable enough that a lot more options are available to him at a given time, giving his "find the best path" power more paths to work with. And yeah, Canon!Contessa is deliberately overpowered. That said, I think I'd actually prefer to see what somebody a bit less...completely evil...could do with Coil's power to split timelines and choose which one to keep. Maybe not necessarily a good guy, but somebody's whose motivations are good enough to support the heroes while also being self-centered enough to not totally help (because he's got other things to focus his power on).

This is, of course, all speculation; we don't even know if he's got a power at all, much less a mental-only power. Still, the trees be epileptic up in this hiz-ouse.

[Forum Explorer]

If Dues is going to have a power, I'd prefer it to be a Thinker power: there doesn't look to be a lot of powers like that in this world, and he'd be a textbook example of how such powers could break a world, given proper use.Putting into perspective, here's a list of some of the most powerful people in Worm:
Contessa, with the "Path to Victory" power. She's not tougher, or faster, or stronger than an average person...she just has basically unlimited precognition; it's worth noting that a couple people are technically immune to her powers, and she can't directly predict them, but she can create mental models that are similar to those immune people that allows her to predict other things even if the precog-immune people get involved.
The Simurgh, who is basically The Phoenix Force from Marvel: city-busting telekinesis, standard psychic powers (mind-reading, mind-control, etc), and post-/pre-cognition on the same level Contessa has, with similar work-arounds for the precog-immune.
Jack Slash, whose two powers are 1) the ability to extend the cutting power of a held knife a long distance, and 2) perfect precognitive reactions to keep him safe from capes and their powers.
Coil, whose power is a weird form of precognition where he basically splits the timeline based around a decision he makes, observe the results in both, and can choose which version he wants to keep; he can only do one timeline-split at a time, and other precogs can screw him up, and he's still one of the most dangerous villains in the series.
Dinah Alcott, who can (a limited number of times per day) calculate the odds of a very particular situation occurring. She got kidnapped by Coil, and is half the reason he's so ridiculously dangerous.
The Number Man is capable of calculating and optimizing basically any scenario, knowing exactly how to fall so as to minimize damage, or how to dodge in such as way as to walk through an insect swarm unharmed.
Accord's power is the ability to solve problems: the harder the problem would normally be, the easier it would be to figure out; the downside is his complete inability to accept the existence of mediocrity with those he involves himself with. He figured out how to solve world hunger, but nobody will listen to him.
Taylor Hebert is the only one on this particular list whose Thinker power is not some form of precognition: her main power is control of bugs with several blocks (originally) and any creature within 16 ft (later on), and her Thinker power allows her to issue commands to all her puppets at the speed of thought, without causing her any sort of slowed-down thought for any body in her hivemind; one mind runs everything, and is not slowed down despite running so many bodies.

Is this every super-dangerous person in the Wormverse, of course not. There's Eidolon (the "any three powers I need" guy, which could be Thinker powers), there's Alexandria (who is basically Superwoman, and has an appropriate Thinker power letting her read body language), there's Legend (a living laser who fires lasers that don't obey the laws of physics), there's the Siberian (a mental projection who is both the unstoppable force and the immovable object), there's Nilbog (who can spawn monsters under his command), there's Dragon (a Lawful Good version of Braniac), there's Glaistig Uaine (who can summon shades of dead capes to do her bidding), there's Lung (whose two powers are "be a dragon" and "get overall better the longer the fight goes"), there's Behemoth (a super-big, super-tough, super-strong, radioactive dynakinetic who uses the Earth's molten core as a hot tub between fights), there's Leviathan (who has macro-hydrakinesis, and has sunken large land-masses before), and there's Sleeper (who's mysteriously powerful, and who's power is only overcome by his mystery). Still, of the powerful people I can remember off the top of my head, nearly half of them were Thinkers of some kind, mostly precognitives of significant power.

I don't think Jack Slash counts as a precog. I think it's more based off powers being 'broadcast', and him being able to instinctively hear and respond to said broadcast.

[Douglas]

Also, a significant reason why she can do what she does is that her power can puppet her own body to incredible levels of precision and detail. This is someone who never bothered to actually learn English because she just lets her power say the right thing through her.
Contessa: My goal is to communicate X information to this person.
Her power: Make these specific noises with your mouth.

Yeah, that is a major part of what makes her so bonkers ridiculously powerful, but the basic "get a truly perfect plan for arbitrary goal X" part is spectacularly amazing even on its own.

[Qwertystop]

Also, a significant reason why she can do what she does is that her power can puppet her own body to incredible levels of precision and detail. This is someone who never bothered to actually learn English because she just lets her power say the right thing through her.

If she just had the precognitive aspect of her power there'd be a lot of things she does in canon Worm that she couldn't pull off because she wouldn't have the precision or skill. So yes; you could give Deus or some other Grrl Power character a watered down version of Contessa's power without breaking the setting, with the right assumptions and limitations. If the future isn't as predictable as it is in Worm and she is limited to human levels of skill and precision she's not so overwhelming.

Canon Contessa would just boringly stomp all over everything, though.

I meant to include the self-puppeting in that. Just being unable to predict another person's conscious actions takes out a lot. If she can't tell how someone would react to what she says, she could still use it to speak another language (goal = say this phrase, but in fluent English), but she couldn't be sure of saying exactly the right thing. She would be able to avoid attacks, but only if there were enough time to do so after the attack started - once someone pulls the trigger it's all physics, but the decision to pull wouldn't be predicted.

I think the end result would be somewhere around perfect peak-of-human-ability reflexes and miscellaneous skills, plus an arbitrarily large degree of knowledge about the physical state of the world, plus any skill she likes that isn't based on interpersonal interaction... Lots of other stuff, too. One thing that comes to mind - any mathematical calculation, or any question about how things are at the moment in some arbitrary place, could go directly from power to speech (or power to pencil-and-paper).

No direct nerfs to her power - the only change is making the setting have free will. She's still as close to Laplace's Demon as you can get in a free-will situation - just without the ability to predict what someone else will do, and whatever cascades from that.

[Kantaki]

Canon Contessa would just boringly stomp all over everything, though.

I'm not sure if I would say "stomp". Would she find a way to win in most situation? Sure, but I'm pretty sure one step would always be "avoid Maxima". If the Goddess of Ash (I love that title) gets involved the best outcome for Contessa is that she accomplishes her objective. On the other hand her power does tell her what she has to say... I still don't see her take on someone in Maxi's weightclass directly.


Something like that would explain why Dues is keeping himself in tip-top shape physically and mentally: beyond the obvious non-powered advantages of doing so, it makes his power more effective because he himself has become capable enough that a lot more options are available to him at a given time, giving his "find the best path" power more paths to work with. And yeah, Canon!Contessa is deliberately overpowered. That said, I think I'd actually prefer to see what somebody a bit less...completely evil...could do with Coil's power to split timelines and choose which one to keep. Maybe not necessarily a good guy, but somebody's whose motivations are good enough to support the heroes while also being self-centered enough to not totally help (because he's got other things to focus his power on).

This is, of course, all speculation; we don't even know if he's got a power at all, much less a mental-only power. Still, the trees be epileptic up in this hiz-ouse.

Coil's power (as well as PtV) would explain how Deus acted towards Indige. In this timeline he deliberatly pushed his opponent into trying to kill him and in the other he tried something else like being polite or attacking directly (or delaying his arrival) and that didn't work very well.
With (downgraded) Path to Victory he would have known with buttons to push and when to call in his "security" enforcers to get the upper hand.
The only difference is that in one case he tried another plan while in the other he knew what would work.
I still hope he is a "normal" - whatever that means- but I can see a power along these lines working for him.

[Douglas]

I'm not sure if I would say "stomp". Would she find a way to win in most situation? Sure, but I'm pretty sure one step would always be "avoid Maxima". If the Goddess of Ash (I love that title) gets involved the best outcome for Contessa is that she accomplishes her objective. On the other hand her power does tell her what she has to say... I still don't see her take on someone in Maxi's weightclass directly.
Not directly in combat, no, but if she decided to take Maxima out her power would give her an indirect route to do it. For example, break Vehemence out, stage a riot to power him up, arrange enough distractions that Max has to go alone, etc. If she were to choose that goal right after the press conference, before the battle royale and canon fight with Vehemence, it could be as simple as giving V a call and tipping him off to take out Sydney early. Or have Opal portal a sedative into Sydney's food. Or her power might take a page from Scion's book and have her play on some suppressed fear and guilt Maxima has to talk Max into suiciding.

[Kantaki]

Not directly in combat, no, but if she decided to take Maxima out her power would give her an indirect route to do it. For example, break Vehemence out, stage a riot to power him up, arrange enough distractions that Max has to go alone, etc. If she were to choose that goal right after the press conference, before the battle royale and canon fight with Vehemence, it could be as simple as giving V a call and tipping him off to take out Sydney early. Or have Opal portal a sedative into Sydney's food. Or her power might take a page from Scion's book and have her play on some suppressed fear and guilt Maxima has to talk Max into suiciding.

That's what I meant. Contessa certainly would find a way to disable Maxima, to take out the team before they can engage her, even before they learn about her, but "stomping" implies a effortless win in direct combat (to me) and I don't think that would end well for her.

[Douglas]

That's what I meant. Contessa certainly would find a way to disable Maxima, to take out the team before they can engage her, even before they learn about her, but "stomping" implies a effortless win in direct combat (to me) and I don't think that would end well for her.
To me, "stomping" implies only that there would never be any doubt whatsoever about the end outcome by anyone who knows the full capabilities and situations of both sides. And really, there wouldn't be.

There are a lot of scenarios where Contessa would lose, but pretty much all of them either include "and Contessa's power is negated by X" or will be proactively prevented from ever getting started. If you decide to take her out and start planning some "perfect inescapable trap" for her, you're liable to die from a time bomb going off directly under your feet, placed 2 years ago in a random spot of sidewalk as step 317 of a plan that has nothing to do with you but had a 5 year timeline and requires Contessa to be alive to carry it out. And yes, that's a time bomb triggered by a purely time-based timer. It will never get to the point of Contessa actually being in the trap, unless escaping the "inescapable" trap is actually the easier way out.

[AvatarVecna]

I don't think Jack Slash counts as a precog. I think it's more based off powers being 'broadcast', and him being able to instinctively hear and respond to said broadcast.

Reacting to things before he's consciously aware of them, and soon enough that his average-person reflexes are sufficient to react to the whatever-it-is that triggered his power...it may not be technically a form of combat precognition, but it's functionally identical, even if it's not technically identical. Still, I see your point, but that just means that only a good third of the most powerful people in the world are precogs rather than nearly half.

Re: Contessa vs ARCHON:

Step One: Cut off communications between Maxima and Archon leadership.

Step Two: Convince Maxima that Contessa is her superior via some sort of secret authorization code.

Step Three: Convince Maxima her team has been mastered via some measure of airborne mind-control drug/virus that she is naturally immune to.

Step Four: Remove any threats on the team Maxima didn't immediately demolish.

Step Five: Convince Maxima that she is a carrier for the drug/virus, and should avoid anybody who she wouldn't want mastered until Archon can figure out a cure.

Perfect plan? No, definitely not, but that's why I'm not a Thinker IRL. I'm sure Contessa could come up with something better with her BS Path To Victory power.

[Forum Explorer]

Reacting to things before he's consciously aware of them, and soon enough that his average-person reflexes are sufficient to react to the whatever-it-is that triggered his power...it may not be technically a form of combat precognition, but it's functionally identical, even if it's not technically identical. Still, I see your point, but that just means that only a good third of the most powerful people in the world are precogs rather than nearly half.



It also gives him incredible insight in manipulating people with powers, so it's an important distinction to make.

But anyways, I'd still argue some of the other most powerful capes you chose. (I'd also argue against Accord being on the list. For all his apparent power he actually doesn't accomplish all that much)

[AvatarVecna]

It also gives him incredible insight in manipulating people with powers, so it's an important distinction to make.

But anyways, I'd still argue some of the other most powerful capes you chose. (I'd also argue against Accord being on the list. For all his apparent power he actually doesn't accomplish all that much)

Fair enough about Jack, although social precognition would also work; perhaps the most important distinction between Jack's Thinker power and more standard precognitive abilities is that his version only applies against capes.

Accord not having enough self-awareness to put his power to full use does not change the fact that his power is absolutely ridiculous; the problem he runs into is that his plans have to be followed correctly, and he personally has a zero tolerance policy for imperfection, often resulting in injury. His power isn't what held him back, it was his own mental imperfections. It's worth noting that Accord was basically the villain in control of Boston, with his only villainous competition being Blasto (who's about halfway between Bonesaw and Nilbog, and was at the time of his death attempting to create a "child" from crossing the DNA of Myraddin and the Simurgh). I'll admit I'm less than certain of his placement on the list; the other one that kind of bothered my when I put them on there was Dina, so I ended up tying her to the Coil entry, since the two of them together have ridiculous synergy...as long as you ignore the potential paradoxes their powers would result in.

[Forum Explorer]

Fair enough about Jack, although social precognition would also work; perhaps the most important distinction between Jack's Thinker power and more standard precognitive abilities is that his version only applies against capes.

Accord not having enough self-awareness to put his power to full use does not change the fact that his power is absolutely ridiculous; the problem he runs into is that his plans have to be followed correctly, and he personally has a zero tolerance policy for imperfection, often resulting in injury. His power isn't what held him back, it was his own mental imperfections. It's worth noting that Accord was basically the villain in control of Boston, with his only villainous competition being Blasto (who's about halfway between Bonesaw and Nilbog, and was at the time of his death attempting to create a "child" from crossing the DNA of Myraddin and the Simurgh). I'll admit I'm less than certain of his placement on the list; the other one that kind of bothered my when I put them on there was Dina, so I ended up tying her to the Coil entry, since the two of them together have ridiculous synergy...as long as you ignore the potential paradoxes their powers would result in.

Jack Slash makes for an interesting villain for most conventional superheroes. He's kinda awesome that way. I'd love to see him go up against Archon, except I think he is far too dark for Grrl Power.

Eh, his plans need to take every factor into account in order to be followed correctly, which is beyond him. (and it's why he got taken down so easily, by not accounting for the presence of a past enemy showing up.) Also powers in Worm do effect the personalities and minds of those who use them, so his mental imperfections may be kit and parcel with his powers.

Also his plans take time and resources that he doesn't necessarily have in order to succeed, so he can be brute force'd down pretty easily.

Yeah, he had control of Boston (kinda, Blasto was certainly competition, and it was never on the level of Coil had with Brockton Bay,), but he was unable to defend his turf from the devastated SH9, and really unable to actually succeed in a single fight we see him in.

[AvatarVecna]

Jack Slash makes for an interesting villain for most conventional superheroes. He's kinda awesome that way. I'd love to see him go up against Archon, except I think he is far too dark for Grrl Power.

Oh yeah, Jack Slash is fun to play with. Unfortunately, part of what makes him a viable threat is that he's manipulated his way into leading a team of powerful people. Archon vs Jack Slash is about as one-sided as Archon vs Contessa, just the other way around:

"Wait, he just projects his knife blade? No super-armor, or super-toughness, or nothing else like that? Better leave him for Arc-SWAT, they can handle this with a tranq-rifle."

Jack Slash on his own is powerfully effective against other capes, but the hole in his defenses is mostly ignored because the Wormverse non-capes are either scared off by his personal reputation, or the reputation of his team. Now, Archon vs S9...that would be an interesting VS battle...


Eh, his plans need to take every factor into account in order to be followed correctly, which is beyond him. (and it's why he got taken down so easily, by not accounting for the presence of a past enemy showing up.) Also powers in Worm do effect the personalities and minds of those who use them, so his mental imperfections may be kit and parcel with his powers.

This is sort of what I mean by "using his power properly": part of making a plan should be planning how to plan his plan properly, such as what details to take into account that he would otherwise forget. And yeah, the mental imperfections are present, but all it would require is even a single person he comes into contact with as Accord to suggest something akin to wishing you knew what to wish for. Still, I see your point: his not considering such possibilities keeps him from really utilizing his power properly...a problem those other powerful Thinkers don't really have, at least not to that degree (Tattletale's got a similar problem, I think).


Also his plans take time and resources that he doesn't necessarily have in order to succeed, so he can be brute force'd down pretty easily.

Fair point.


Yeah, he had control of Boston (kinda, Blasto was certainly competition, and it was never on the level of Coil had with Brockton Bay,), but he was unable to defend his turf from the devastated SH9, and really unable to actually succeed in a single fight we see him in.

...fair points, but I'll offer a couple counter-points: firstly, the "devastated" S9 was Jack Slash, the Siberian, and Bonesaw; they're not exactly lightweights, as far as super-combat goes, so it's not necessarily that Accord's ability to plan for combats is **** as much as most any plan that comes into contact with the Siberian gets metaphorically and literally disintegrated. Secondly, we don't really see much of Accord in canon, mostly because he's not really a fighter as much as a planner; while I don't think it was ever confirmed in canon, I'm pretty sure Accord would be involved in the Thinker discussions on how to distribute capes during Endbringer fights efficiently, and I've seen others make similar conclusions. Still, there's enough issues with Accord that I can agree he doesn't really belong on this list.

...

Also, maybe it's just because it's really late, but it just occurred to me how weirdly similar some characters are between GrrlPower and Worm. I mean, there's a character who can teleport in such a way that they also duplicate (Harem/Oni Lee), and the first major villain who shows up in the series is a powerful brute who ramps up even more powerful the longer the fight goes on (Vehemence/Lung), not to mention that both feature a geeky female protagonist with an incredibly versatile power and body image issues (Halo/Skitter), and both feature a flying golden superman-esque being with blasting powers who is far beyond most everybody else in the series in terms of power (Maxima/Scion), with the possible exception of the grab-bag cape who has a ridiculous number of powers they can pull out of their butt in a fight, until they find one that works (Dabbler//Eidolon/Glaistig Uaine).

[Kantaki]

New comic.

:smalleek:Deus is scary.:smalleek: I think this definitly establishes him as evil. Maybe even with a capital letter or three. His interpretation of that particular myth is certainly... unique. I don't think I have ever heard it that way before.

The Nine versus Archon? Scary thought. The Siberian* and Crawler should be able to take Maxi one on one, Shatterbird would prevent them from using those fancy tactical glasses (if those would help at all in this scenario) and I shudder at the thought what Bonesaw and Mannequin might cook up. Add Burnscar's destructive potential and Jack's games to this (not to mention the likes of Cherish or Hatchet Face or any of the resurrected Nine) and the result is certainly a challenge for the team.

*Until they work out how "she" works that is. Manton himself is easy.

[Metahuman1]

Well, so much for "Not just a corporate bad guy.". Seriously, that read like it came right out of Lex Luthor ala Superman TAS's mouth.



*Sigh.* Was so hoping for an actually different take.




Also, no one liked the idea that his power is like, laser hands or something else flashy and he just doesn't bother with it cause he can be so much more effective doing things those don't actually help with?

[Kantaki]

Well, so much for "Not just a corporate bad guy.". Seriously, that read like it came right out of Lex Luthor ala Superman TAS's mouth.



*Sigh.* Was so hoping for an actually different take.

Well, it is still possible that the gave that response because of the flair, the presentation or something like that. Even if he is serious Deus most likely would be offended that you called him "just" a "corporate bad guy". He is a bad guy and he runs a corporation - and a country- and he does a amazing Job, thank you very much.:smallamused: And comparing him to Luthor? Come on that guy would have spilled the beans far sooner.

But yes, I agree that this makes him appear far less abiguous and more outright evil.


Also, no one liked the idea that his power is like, laser hands or something else flashy and he just doesn't bother with it cause he can be so much more effective doing things those don't actually help with?

Sure, that kind of power would work as well, but I think if he has powers at all some subtle "Thinker"-classification (or "Master"-clssification) power fits Deus best. Not mention that the drama-queen would have used a flashy power already during one of his dramatic moments.

[Traab]

I could easily see him with a sebastian shaw type of power, if they hadnt given us vehemence already at least. Basically, a power thats totally not obvious, is something thats mainly defensive in nature, and isnt known until some smart guy gets past his bodyguards and thinks he has an easy shot. Of course, I could also see him doing something insane like, giving himself all the powers he can. Like, the real reason he funded archon is so he can get access to their bloodwork, and thus find ways to splice their powers onto him. Imagine if max also had anvils kinetic absorption power to strengthen her further? /shiver And Deus would totally love mr amorphus' power, if only to manage to keep his rugged musculature look. :p

[AvatarVecna]

I am now of the opinion that Dues is scary enough without us inventing S class powers for him.

Also while I agree that the Siberian could tear through Maxima like the love child of Legend and Scion birthed by Alexandria that she is, Crawler would be handled very differently in the GP universe, since the "hurl into space" option is something multiple members of Archon are able and willing to pull. Burnscar vs Heatwave definitely goes in Burnscar's favor, and Mannequin will prove an interesting for to face. Bonesaw will have an interesting time getting any of them to fight her, unless she already has some monsters at her disposal, and Shatterbird would be threatening when she does her citywide boom but would shatter like glass once she came into contact with one of the GP's flying super brutes. The biggest threat after the Siberian is Jack's mouth, but after that it's Cherish. Honestly, how well this fight goes will depend on how susceptible Maxima is to mind control and (if the answer is "not very") how competent Dabbler is at identifying and neutralizing mind control.

EDIT: Of course, didn't they kill Crawler in canon with a huge explosion that was virtually unmatchable in its pure destructive power? Because if anybody can match Bakuda's explosive power, it would be Maxima.

[Kantaki]

I am now of the opinion that Dues is scary enough without us inventing S class powers for him.

Also while I agree that the Siberian could tear through Maxima like the love child of Legend and Scion birthed by Alexandria that she is, Crawler would be handled very differently in the GP universe, since the "hurl into space" option is something multiple members of Archon are able and willing to pull. Burnscar vs Heatwave definitely goes in Burnscar's favor, and Mannequin will prove an interesting for to face. Bonesaw will have an interesting time getting any of them to fight her, unoess she already has some monsters at her disposal, and Shatterbird would be threatening when she does her citywide boom but would shatter like glass once she glcame into contact with one of the GP's flying super brutes. The biggest threat after the Siberian is Jack's mouth, but after that it's Cherish. Honestly, how well this fight goes will depend on how susceptible Maxima is to mind control and (if the answer is "not very") how competent Dabbler is at identifyingand neutralizing mind control.

Bonesaw doesn't need very long to work her magic. Even if we assume that she gets transplanted without her toys she would be prepared pretty soon. But you might be right, the active Nine are something Archon can take. Not easily and not without losses, but they should be able to win. Once we get to the S9000 and the various former members resurrected for them things might look more dire. A fight against King would mean dealing horrible damage to innocents, I don't see what they can do against Grey Boy and then there are so many others that are dangerous alone. Not that you wouls encounter those guys alone in most cases.
Sure, even then Archon should be able to win, but not without losses. The physical scars would be the least problem after dealing with this kind of threat.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

So it would appear that Deus in unashamedly capital-E evil. On the one hand, I'm a little disappointed. On the other, I love his delivery.




EDIT: Of course, didn't they kill Crawler in canon with a huge explosion that was virtually unmatchable in its pure destructive power? Because if anybody can match Bakuda's explosive power, it would be Maxima.

Crawler was killed when they dropped ALL the Bakuda bombs on him. It was less about raw destructive power and more that Bakuda made bombs with really weird effects. They hit him with so many different effects he wasn't able to adapt to everything at once. IIRC, the one that actually did him in turned all organic matter in the blast radius into silicon.

[halfeye]

So it would appear that Deus in unashamedly capital-E evil. On the one hand, I'm a little disappointed. On the other, I love his delivery.

He hasn't actually said that.

I too would prefer that it remain ambiguous, and I think that so far it has.

[Douglas]

Crawler was killed when they dropped ALL the Bakuda bombs on him. It was less about raw destructive power and more that Bakuda made bombs with really weird effects. They hit him with so many different effects he wasn't able to adapt to everything at once. IIRC, the one that actually did him in turned all organic matter in the blast radius into silicon.
Yeah, the appropriate reaction to most of those bombs is not "it makes HOW BIG a boom???", but rather "wait, it does WHAT? ...what...why...how...wtf???"


He hasn't actually said that.

I too would prefer that it remain ambiguous, and I think that so far it has.
Yeah, he's just capitalizing on the opportunity for dramatic presentation he was just handed. He's being melodramatic for the sake of melodrama, while also incidentally advancing his goal.

[halfeye]

Yeah, he's just capitalizing on the opportunity for dramatic presentation he was just handed. He's being melodramatic for the sake of melodrama, while also incidentally advancing his goal.

I want to know the story of the scar, then it can fade away, it must be a nuisance to draw, seems he had it from childhood, like Bowie's strange looking eye.

[Kantaki]

I want to know the story of the scar, then it can fade away, it must be a nuisance to draw, seems he had it from childhood, like Bowie's strange looking eye.

:smallamused:Isn't that obvious? He scarred himself to look more intimidating, mysterious, like a villain, for the sake of the dramatic. We are talking about the guy with the dramatic lightning switch after all.:smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

[halfeye]

:smallamused:Isn't that obvious? He scarred himself to look more intimidating, mysterious, like a villain, for the sake of the dramatic. We are talking about the guy with the dramatic lightning switch after all.:smallbiggrin::smalltongue:
Boring. It could the answer, but it would still be boring.

[Metahuman1]

Not really. This screams "I'm evil, I know it, I embrace it.". Not really seeing a lot of good odds on it being a red herring.

[Obscure Blade]

New comic.

:smalleek:Deus is scary.:smalleek: I think this definitly establishes him as evil. Maybe even with a capital letter or three. His interpretation of that particular myth is certainly... unique. I don't think I have ever heard it that way before.
The closest I've heard it put that way was in the Empire of Man series. There's a version of Satanism in that setting that believes that the angels successfully overthrew and bound God, and Satan was expelled from Heaven because he was the only angel to remain loyal to God.

Who knows how Deus interprets it though. A guy who calls himself a word that means "god" may have a somewhat unusual interpretation of what "loving god too much" means.

[Emperordaniel]

The closest I've heard it put that way was in the Empire of Man series. There's a version of Satanism in that setting that believes that the angels successfully overthrew and bound God, and Satan was expelled from Heaven because he was the only angel to remain loyal to God.

Who knows how Deus interprets it though. A guy who calls himself a word that means "god" may have a somewhat unusual interpretation of what "loving god too much" means.

According to the comments section over there (and the author himself), Deus's interpretation comes from a story where he was initially ordered to bow only to God, and later given an order to bow to men, creating a conflicting-orders situation.

[Discus-Spinner]

I want to know the story of the scar, then it can fade away, it must be a nuisance to draw, seems he had it from childhood, like Bowie's strange looking eye.
Don't be silly; he can't lose it, it's one-third of one of his hidden-in-plain-sight schticks.

(He's Deus. With an X. Who runs Machina Industries. Duh.)


According to the comments section over there (and the author himself), Deus's interpretation comes from a story where he was initially ordered to bow only to God, and later given an order to bow to men, creating a conflicting-orders situation.
That version of the myth seems to be more widespread in the Middle East than elsewhere. There's one bunch of totally-out-there Sufi mystics who are regarded as devil-worshippers by other Muslims because they revere Iblis, because by that story, his love of God is absolute.

[Eldan]

I think I'd actually prefer it if, for comedic value, he got this scar doing something mundane and stupid. Slipped and fell through a window as a 14 year old. Faceplanted on a rock while skiing.

[Metahuman1]

I think I'd actually prefer it if, for comedic value, he got this scar doing something mundane and stupid. Slipped and fell through a window as a 14 year old. Faceplanted on a rock while skiing.

Tried to pick up Kendo in Japan and someone's Shinai broke and caught him at juuuuuuust the wrong angle.



Car accident.



Grew up not well off financially in a somewhat rough area and picked it up in an incident there.

[Obscure Blade]

Deus:

"You know how everybody's mother always tells them not to run with scissors?"

<points at face>

"Listen to your mother."

[lord_khaine]

Haha.. nice one about the scissors.

Yeah i think i prefer the idea that he got the scar from something stupid.

[Traab]

Its obvious, he was a guest appearance on hollywood squares and took it a little too seriously when X took the square.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

(He's Deus. With an X. Who runs Machina Industries. Duh.)


Why did I not notice this sooner.

[AvatarVecna]

Why did I not notice this sooner.

My headcanon is that both the scar and the name of his company only exist the way they do specifically because he wanted to be able to make this pun.

[Metahuman1]

My headcanon is that both the scar and the name of his company only exist the way they do specifically because he wanted to be able to make this pun.

That would actually make perfect sense. More so if part of his logic is that it would, in a pinch, be bad enough to distract several members of Archon for a least a few seconds.

[Kantaki]

New comic.

:smallsigh:I'm finally sure what to think about Deus and now this.:smallsigh: Well, it seems he had good reasons to abdicate Indige. The little speech was just Deus' love for the dramatic going into overdrive - at least that's what he says*. The goofyness could be an act and the proof for Indige's crimes faked. It certainly doesn't make Deus takeover less questionable, even if killing the king might have been necessary.
Deus remains questionable at best, things still point towards evil-ish.

*To me it depends, is he putting on a villain-act and making his actions and plans look evil for sake of the dramatic and or to scare off unnecessary conflicts but is actually a descent, if ruthless, guy, or is he really like that and just overacts because he loves melodrama so much. I mean Tarquin isn't less evil for his Elan-ness.

[lord_khaine]

I should point out the author directly states that the footage is not tampered with.

[halfeye]

I should point out the author directly states that the footage is not tampered with.
In an absolutely "nudge-nudge wink-wink" "I might not really mean that" sort of way.

[Traab]

I should point out the author directly states that the footage is not tampered with.

No really, it isnt, he isnt even sure why he felt the need to mention it. Seriously though, I love how its like, he realized he went too far in the direction of evil, and now is back in the grey area confusing the heck out of everyone trying to define him. Im still sticking strongly to pragamatic evil.

[Calemyr]

No really, it isnt, he isnt even sure why he felt the need to mention it. Seriously though, I love how its like, he realized he went too far in the direction of evil, and now is back in the grey area confusing the heck out of everyone trying to define him. Im still sticking strongly to pragamatic evil.

Deus: "Evil? Me? I have never been so offen...pfffffff! Okay, I can't say that with a straight face. Still, it's amazing you people and your binary morality. You think I'm evil? For taking an ass backwards little molehill of a kingdom in a forgotten corner of a wartorn region, dragging it kicking and screaming into the modern era, investing in roads and schools and clean water... Look, it doesn't matter what I get out of it, be it philanthropic pride for doing something good or maniacal glee for owning my own private nation, the point is I'm helping. In general, the lives of many innocent people are better for my actions, and the world is short yet another cookie-cutter loose cannon warlord who thinks a big gun compensates for other shortcomings. The 'evil' you're here to fight, that I'm helping you to fight, is the kind that is not making the world a better place. And even then, you do it poorly. You stopped those thugs, yes, but at the expense of an entire shopping mall and with serious injuries to both sides as well as bystanders. An expense I'm helping with, I might add. Call me evil if you must. I'd rather be the 'evil' that makes the world a better place than the 'good' that witlessly tears the world apart in order to save it."

[HandofShadows]

Welp New Page

Here we have him claiming how much better everyone's lives will be. and he might actually be right. :smallconfused: And I think we have one of the reason he "likes" Archon so much. He's going to use it was legal justification of his own super group.

[Kantaki]

"Oh no, There's airconditioning.":smallbiggrin: "I'm torn between giving you a straight answer and rubbing my Hands together while cackling maniacally.":smallamused: Deus might or might not be evil, but he certainly is awesome.

@HandofShadows: I don't think he would need that hiring capes as security isn't illegal and since he owns (most of) the place deploying them to protect Machina Industries property and to "support local authorities" if necessary* should be fine as well.

*Considering his "partnership" with the "government" they certainly woul "request" the "aid" of Machina Industries security.

[Leewei]

At least one of Deus's henchcapes, Vekter, was in the restaurant attack. Vekter had a working relationship with Opal, so I'm guessing she's also from Deus's group. Both were pretty surprised at the betrayal by Vehemence, which leads me to think Deus provided support to Vehemence -- possibly including both capes.

There are three reasons I can think of for Deus to be involved in nation-building, none of which have anything to do with the goodness of his heart.

First off, it has some mineral or biological resource he otherwise would find hard to obtain.

Second off, the nation is a prototype government for an eventually far more ambitious project.

Lastly, he has a geographical region where he is able to act without legal repercussions.

There's absolutely no reason it couldn't be more than one of these.

My guess? He's looking to create a new race of superhumans.

[halfeye]

At least one of Deus's henchcapes, Vekter, was in the restaurant attack. Vekter had a working relationship with Opal, so I'm guessing she's also from Deus's group. Both were pretty surprised at the betrayal by Vehemence, which leads me to think Deus provided support to Vehemence -- possibly including both capes.

There are three reasons I can think of for Deus to be involved in nation-building, none of which have anything to do with the goodness of his heart.
Nor the badness of that heart?


First off, it has some mineral or biological resource he otherwise would find hard to obtain.

Sure, people are a biological resoure, I don't think he's in any way denying he wants people as workers and consumers.


Second off, the nation is a prototype government for an eventually far more ambitious project.

Fanatics don't do prototypes of governments, they already think they know exactly how government should work.


Lastly, he has a geographical region where he is able to act without legal repercussions.

Except his own laws, whatever they may be, and it didn't look as if the previous guy's laws were better.


There's absolutely no reason it couldn't be more than one of these.

I quite agree, any and all combinations, including all of this being lies, are possible.


My guess? He's looking to create a new race of superhumans.

I dont think that's likely, they either don't breed true, or they can breed with ordinary humans, there is no super "type", they are all apparently different.

[Leewei]

Cripes, that quote slicing! :smallamused:

[halfeye]

Cripes, that quote slicing! :smallamused:

It takes some work, but I think it's worth the effort. A "split quote" button would be easier.

[HandofShadows]

On some forums such quote slicing can get you trouble. Not saying there is a rule against it here though.

[lord_khaine]

At least one of Deus's henchcapes, Vekter, was in the restaurant attack. Vekter had a working relationship with Opal, so I'm guessing she's also from Deus's group. Both were pretty surprised at the betrayal by Vehemence, which leads me to think Deus provided support to Vehemence -- possibly including both capes.

I think its a weird jump of logic from Vekter being surprised at a betrayal, to Vehemence therefore being sponsored by Deus. If Vekter though Vehemence were on their side, then thats all the reason there is needed for people being surprised when he suddenly turn against them.


At least one of Deus's henchcapes, Vekter, was in the restaurant attack. Vekter had a working relationship with Opal, so I'm guessing she's also from Deus's group. Both were pretty surprised at the betrayal by Vehemence, which leads me to think Deus provided support to Vehemence -- possibly including both capes.

There is no rule against it here though, so why even mention it? :smallconfused:

[Discus-Spinner]

On some forums such quote slicing can get you trouble. Not saying there is a rule against it here though.
If I found myself on such a forum (and I never have), I'd tell the mods to go do something anatomically implausible, and leave. Conversations should ideally be structured as tidy logical exchanges.

Anyhow - Zeph said during the bar fight that Vekter was a known active supervillain. If I had to guess, I'd assume that he was the sort of mercenary tough guy who's happy to do odd jobs for (large amounts of) beer money, and who has enough sense to be reasonably reliable once paid. Hence, Deus could have him in his address book and possibly on retainer. When Deus wants a team to exert overwhelming force, as with that coup, Vekter gets a call; the rest of the time, he can do what he likes.

That is just a guess, and there are other possibilities - but there's no need for complex conspiracy narratives when something like that would work.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

New comic. Deus continues to be quite the showman and my goodness that chart in panel 5 is just hilarious.

[Eldan]

He should look into Our Lady of Perpetual Tax Exemption. I'm sure John Oliver is willing to share.

[Kantaki]

Well, at least he is honest about his worldview.:smallbiggrin:

I think it says a lot about Deus that this statment doesn't make him in any way less likeable. He just is is usual honest, slightly goofy and possibly evil self.

[Forum Explorer]

She fell into the classic trap of failing to ask Deus to define what he means by 'greatest'. :smallwink:

[Leewei]

Deus just effectively dodged the question by equating any motivator with greed, then saying it was what motivated him.

[Forum Explorer]

Deus just effectively dodged the question by equating any motivator with greed, then saying it was what motivated him.

Heh, good point. :smallamused:

[Ibrinar]

I just thought I had enough of hearing about his viewpoints and promptly the interview ends, good timing.

[Traab]

I just thought I had enough of hearing about his viewpoints and promptly the interview ends, good timing.

Honestly? I feel the same way. It took just long enough and no longer.

[Kantaki]

New comic.

:smallbiggrin:Poor Sydney. That has to be unpleasant.:smallbiggrin: But her reaction is too funny. At least she is awake now.:smallamused:

[HandofShadows]

Static electricity, the foe of humanity! Notice how the orb "wake up" when she does?

[Emperordaniel]

At first I thought Sydney had yelled "son of a fat Vader!"

Must be getting tired. :smalltongue:

[Douglas]

At first I thought Sydney had yelled "son of a fat Vader!"

Must be getting tired. :smalltongue:
That would be far from the strangest curse phrase she's uttered.

[lord_khaine]

I must confess i were really, really confused with the comic myself, and had to read though the authors notes to even get a partiel idea of what where going on.

[Kantaki]

New comic. And a new voting incentive.
A hot picture of Heatwave. Oh, and Brook looks pretty nice too I guess.

Huh, the alien-waitress is at Archon HQ? I guess Dabbler wasn't in the mood for local food.
:smallbiggrin:I think that was the last time that coffee gal questioned a customers order. Tomorrow Halo will get her wake-up Juice as soon as she enters.

[Admiral Squish]

I imagine, if I drank coffee, I would take it much the way Sydney does. Maximum efficiency and a whole lot of sweet stuff. At first I thought her order was quadruple/sextouple, only to realize just how impressive it actually was on a second reading. Sydney really doesn't do anything by half-measures, huh?

That is a really nice vote incentive, too.

[Kantaki]

All I know is that we will see what happens when a human hits ludicrous speed. The training should be fun. Poor Maxima and Peggy...
The whole "how to talk to the press" thingy will be amusing too, even more so when the caffein last that long.
And it seems Greeny got a who is who entry. I'm pretty sure that wasn't there when I first read todays page,

[lord_khaine]

All I know is that we will see what happens when a human hits ludicrous speed. The training should be fun. Poor Maxima and Peggy...
The whole "how to talk to the press" thingy will be amusing too, even more so when the caffein last that long.
And it seems Greeny got a who is who entry. I'm pretty sure that wasn't there when I first read todays page,

it certainly wasnt, because i remember being confused about who the person sleeping on the couch were suposed to be.

edit.
Holy &%¤# that voting incentive is scorching hot.

[Avilan the Grey]

As much as I hated the military... Being drafted with a bad knee allowed me to sit on a balcony watching all the idiots running around and doing pushups.

That was fun. :smallamused::smalltongue:

[Kantaki]

As much as I hated the military... Being drafted with a bad knee allowed me to sit on a balcony watching all the idiots running around and doing pushups.

That was fun. :smallamused::smalltongue:

Meh, never was in the military. Didn't want me.:smallbiggrin:

All I can say is that Im happy that I'm not in Sydney’s shoes right now.

[Tono]

Meh. They ain't pushing her that hard. She can talk she can run. :smallbiggrin:
That coffee is what most likely hurt her more.

[Admiral Squish]

Ahh, memories. Awful, awful memories...

[Traab]

I got lucky, I have a runners body type, and I lost the 60 pounds I needed to join the military through lots and lots of running, (and dieting, but mainly running) so morning pt was a breeze for me. I actually enjoy running, and its always an education watching those big burly dudes whose pecs can dance and could crack walnuts with their eyelids gasp and wheeze 2 laps into a 2 mile jog. Poor sydney is an example of why every freaking morning there was someone getting carted off the exercise yard in an ambulance. (pansies, its the air force, not navy freaking seals training. Why join the military if AIR FORCE physical training is going to be too much for you?)

[Admiral Squish]

Now, me, I barely squeaked by on the weight, and I'm built top-heavy. I actually had to cheat a little on the measurement section to get through it when I first entered boot camp. Thus, I detest running with a fiery passion, which is partially why I joined the navy, because they don't require quite so much running (it's a boat, where you gonna run?). All through the 'getting fit' part before shipping out and basic training, not once did I manage to pass the run. And I'm not talking 'oh, just a bit too slow', I think my best time was fifteen minutes and change, and I needed it down to twelve. When the final PT test came, I ran the math to figure out the maximum seconds/lap I needed to beat in order to pass and it was not looking good. I figured I had no chance, but once we stated running and I checked the timer after my first lap, I was under by like forty-five seconds or something. I was so dazed that I very nearly tripped rounding the next corner, but I managed to keep up the pace, and when I crossed the finish line I came in almost exactly fourty-five seconds under the limit.
I don't think I ever actually made myself puke, but I do remember they had like four barrels around the track in case people did.

[Avilan the Grey]

Meh. They ain't pushing her that hard. She can talk she can run. :smallbiggrin:
That coffee is what most likely hurt her more.

Not true actually. If you are in bad enough shape your legs (and heart) will give out before you have to stop talking.

[AvatarVecna]

Not true actually. If you are in bad enough shape your legs (and heart) will give out before you have to stop talking.

Don't you use your fancy-schmancy biology know-how to muddie the issue! :smalltongue:

[Tono]

Not true actually. If you are in bad enough shape your legs (and heart) will give out before you have to stop talking.

If you're in bad enough shape you also can't physically run. And she hasn't passed out. She can run more.
Also, its sorta just a semi-common phrase. Mostly used by NCOs who hate when people talk during PT. Or have fun. Or any combination there of.

[Avilan the Grey]

If you're in bad enough shape you also can't physically run. And she hasn't passed out. She can run more.
Also, its sorta just a semi-common phrase. Mostly used by NCOs who hate when people talk during PT. Or have fun. Or any combination there of.

Yeah, but people like that needs a kick in the groin.

[Kantaki]

New comic

Poor Sydney, but unfortunatly things don't work this way. At least not in-universe. But to be honest I kinda agree with her. bein able to trigger a training-montage would be great. Maybe she should try out one of the Mystery-Orbs.:smallbiggrin:

[HandofShadows]

Sydney hit her limit. With predictable results. :smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

I'm sure there are many people who would agree with Sydney there. Joker, Penguin, Bane, Clayface, Poison Ivy, Catwoman...:smallamused:
But I guess if she can still curse she has at least some energy left. At least Peggy admits that she overused the motivation a bit.

[HandofShadows]

Well, Catwoman already has, often. :smallwink: As for the Joker seems he's finally gone sane.

[Kantaki]

Well, Catwoman already has, often. :smallwink: As for the Joker seems he's finally gone sane.

Isn't that a Oxymoron?:smallconfused:
By the way, nice trick with the Spoiler. I almost expected something terrible.:smallbiggrin:

[HandofShadows]

Isn't that a Oxymoron?:smallconfused:
By the way, nice trick with the Spoiler. I almost expected something terrible.:smallbiggrin:

Well saw the pages on a site. Just as Bruce Wayne no longer is Batman the Joker is sane as well. He was thinking of killing himself and decided that shooting a gun a park was wrong. (He has a job now as a butcher and is happy and sane) He's sitting in that same park telling Bruce that he can be happy, he doesn't need to be the Batman. Apparently there is going to be a NEW Joker and unlike the old one he will not be insane, but just a royal *&^%$#.

[Kantaki]

Well saw the pages on a site. Just as Bruce Wayne no longer is Batman the Joker is sane as well. He was thinking of killing himself and decided that shooting a gun a park was wrong. (He has a job now as a butcher and is happy and sane) He's sitting in that same park telling Bruce that he can be happy, he doesn't need to be the Batman. Apparently there is going to be a NEW Joker and unlike the old one he will not be insane, but just a royal *&^%$#.

I don't read many comics, so all I know about most of this stuff is from the animated series and some movies. Is that some kind of alternate universe? Because it sounds odd. I always thought those verses never change (significantly)

[Kantaki]

New comic

:smallbiggrin:I like Sydney’s priorities there.:smallamused:
But the way she is sorry for not keeping up is really cute. The girl needs a hug.

[tomandtish]

Well, Catwoman already has, often. :smallwink: As for the Joker seems he's finally gone sane.


Well saw the pages on a site. Just as Bruce Wayne no longer is Batman the Joker is sane as well. He was thinking of killing himself and decided that shooting a gun a park was wrong. (He has a job now as a butcher and is happy and sane) He's sitting in that same park telling Bruce that he can be happy, he doesn't need to be the Batman. Apparently there is going to be a NEW Joker and unlike the old one he will not be insane, but just a royal *&^%$#.

Interestingly, since insanity is a legal term...

It's actually generally held that by real standards the Joker wouldn't meet the legal definitions of insanity. Both a panel of psychiatrists at Comic-con in 2009 (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/07/24/comic-con-get-the-joker-out-of-arkham-hes-not-insane-who-knew/#.VtSbFfnyu00) (and other times), and Law and the Multiverse (http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/01/18/supervillains-and-the-insanity-defense/) agree that while he's certainly mentally ill, he doesn't meet the legal definition of insanity. Best he could probably hope for is a guilty verdict, but being deemed so mentally ill (http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2012/07/02/the-joker/) that he's being held in Arkham because his illness is too severe for a normal facility. Same is true for quite a few other villains in Gotham as well.

Note that this is real world interpretation. Comics handle it differently obviously.

[Kantaki]

New comic.

Sydney flies the way it is done right. With a lot of style.:smallbiggrin:

And now our heroes have to repair what Maxima broke.
Well, right now only Hiro is working, Daphne is shooting photos.
Speaking of with, I really have to disagree with Sydney on that matter. Sexy pictures of her? Yes please.:smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

Am I the only one who gets the feeling it wasnt exactly accidental that hiro lost his shirt? He has that self satisfied look on his face, I was half expecting to see crowds of drooling fangirls in the background. :p As for sexy sydney pics, nah. She is a cutie, but not sexy imo. I like the idea someone on the comment section came up with, get her into some good cosplay and she might be able to pull it off.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, good call about the shirt, could very well be the case.
Cant help but notice that he did not wear the torn shirt, as it would still have covered a lot.

Or for that matter ask Harem to bring him a new one..

[Calemyr]

Speaking of with, I really have to disagree with Sydney on that matter. Sexy pictures of her? Yes please.:smallbiggrin:

I wouldn't really like to have Sydney in any Harem/Heatwave style pics, because it's pretty much a betrayal of her character. Sydney having fun, however, be it getting a bunch of Arc supers to cosplay with her or convincing Max to play D&D with her... Oh, I'd love to see pics like that. Might just be me, but Sydney is at her most attractive when she's simply being Sydney.

Honestly, if I could commission Dave B for anything, it would probably be the D&D thing. Imagine it. Several of our heroes around a table with the game's trappings (paper, pencils, dice, a DM screen, maybe a map...) with Sydney standing on the table in full DM mode, dramatically gesturing at her unwitting pawns players as she describes the doom room they've stumbled upon.

Who would play what, I wonder?

[Kantaki]

I wouldn't really like to have Sydney in any Harem/Heatwave style pics, because it's pretty much a betrayal of her character. Sydney having fun, however, be it getting a bunch of Arc supers to cosplay with her or convincing Max to play D&D with her... Oh, I'd love to see pics like that. Might just be me, but Sydney is at her most attractive when she's simply being Sydney.

Well, yeah, of course it wouldn't be the same kind of picture as with one of the other girls (not counting Maxima as „one of the girls for this purpose). That would look silly at best.


Honestly, if I could commission Dave B for anything, it would probably be the D&D thing. Imagine it. Several of our heroes around a table with the game's trappings (paper, pencils, dice, a DM screen, maybe a map...) with Sydney standing on the table in full DM mode, dramatically gesturing at her unwitting pawns players as she describes the doom room they've stumbled upon.

Who would play what, I wonder?

Dabbler: Wizard Sorcerer might be better fit.
Maxima would be a great Paladin.
Daphne might play a Rogue or something similar.
Arianna might be a bard (most likely with a focus on diplomacy - someone has make the party look good)
Math... I don't know, some martial class maybe? monk, warrior, some variation thereof.
No idea what would fit the others - something rules-light for Brook most likely.

[lord_khaine]

Honestly, if I could commission Dave B for anything, it would probably be the D&D thing. Imagine it. Several of our heroes around a table with the game's trappings (paper, pencils, dice, a DM screen, maybe a map...) with Sydney standing on the table in full DM mode, dramatically gesturing at her unwitting pawns players as she describes the doom room they've stumbled upon.

Who would play what, I wonder?

You really cannot say. Maxima for example might end up being some Lawful powerhouse like a Crusader or Psychic Gish.
But she might also game for the chance to express another side of herself. Ending up like a Chaotic Neutral Bard, or a Lawful Evil assasin.

[BannedInSchool]

And Dabbler must botch a Seduction check. :smallwink:

[Traab]

Todays update was awesome. We finally got to see a limit on another of her orbs. 15 tons of lifting strength? Thats pretty super. Sure she doesnt match up with anvil/hiro/maxima, but thats still plenty of power. And who knows what her upgrade tree could be capable of improving it to.

[Kantaki]

New comic

Well, it seems Sydney found something the lighthook can lift.

More importantly, teleporters are bad for your health.

[Leewei]

This comic really struggles with pacing. The effect Harem's sudden appearances have on Sydney has already been played through, and Sydney's pratfalls are starting to seem a bit like Garfield shoving Odie off the table. The quality of the art keeps getting better. Hopefully Dave trims back on the little non-plot-driven character interactions. Some of it adds veracity and fun to a comic. His current recipe (almost nothing but such interactions) seems to be bogging things down quite a bit for little return.

[Calemyr]

This comic really struggles with pacing. The effect Harem's sudden appearances have on Sydney has already been played through, and Sydney's pratfalls are starting to seem a bit like Garfield shoving Odie off the table. The quality of the art keeps getting better. Hopefully Dave trims back on the little non-plot-driven character interactions. Some of it adds veracity and fun to a comic. His current recipe (almost nothing but such interactions) seems to be bogging things down quite a bit for little return.

Actually, isn't that the whole point of this one? Harem pops up and she just goes "GAH!" (because it was completely unexpected), and goes on with her life. Jiggawatt shows up and floors Sydney. Why? Because Sydney has gotten used to Harem's style of teleportation (which is actually pretty subtle given the character), but Jiggawatt's appearance is a whole new ballgame. Lightning literally struck the ground a couple feet away from her with no warning (and no apparent storm clouds). Even if you completely ignore the fact that Jiggawatt is now standing where nobody was before (the general effect of Harem's teleportation), frickin' lightning struck A FEW FEET AWAY from her. Yeah, I'd be looking for a change of shorts myself.

On the plus side, she didn't clock Jiggawatt out of surprise, like she did Harem.

[Leewei]

Actually, isn't that the whole point of this one?

Even if that is the entire point, Sydney's character has developed only a touch, Jigawatt is now onsite, and the plot isn't moving. This could have taken one or two panels, which in turn would have left room for the ARC heroes to go on to other activities, or else go on to whatever significant action will take place at the construction site. As great as the dialogue, concept, and art are, I really hope Dave ups his pacing. This webcomic is very nearly a great thing.

[HandofShadows]

I think they broke the Cheesecake meter on this page.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I found the "fully cantilevered" comment much funnier than it probably deserves.

[Dragonus45]

It just occured to me that those guys are probably still getting paid for the day too. So a day of chilling out while statuesque super heroes and heroins do all your work for you in plain view, and you get paid for it. Some people get all the luck.

[Avilan the Grey]

Varia has replaced Kenya as my second favorite character after Maxima.

[Kantaki]

Halo’s way of dealing with those guys was pretty good.:smallbiggrin:.
Even if it was a bit mean. Let those guys talk. As long as they keep at that mean.

Is it just me or does Brook look a bit confused at those metal pieces she is holding?

[John Campbell]

I think that's Heatwave's default state.

[HandofShadows]

I think that's Heatwave's default state.

Heatwave is not dumb. She states that her brain processes information different than most at one point. http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/413

[Shogo]

I'd agree with the sentiment that Sydney should have just let them be. It's not like they were being a nuisance by cat-calling them or anything. Certainly not when the suggestion one of them might have super hearing is what makes those guys nervous.

Shame so many people in the comments section are openly wishing Max had heard them because they want her to beat the **** out of them. Hell, one thought the workers should die "for their sin".

But I guess that's one of the reasons they say you should never read a site's comments section.

[Calemyr]

I'd agree with the sentiment that Sydney should have just let them be. It's not like they were being a nuisance by cat-calling them or anything. Certainly not when the suggestion one of them might have super hearing is what makes those guys nervous.

Shame so many people in the comments section are openly wishing Max had heard them because they want her to beat the **** out of them. Hell, one thought the workers should die "for their sin".

But I guess that's one of the reasons they say you should never read a site's comments section.

Anyone who thought Maxima would floor them clearly doesn't understand the character. She could scare them easily, or she could turn the tables on them (i.e. sic Harem on them), but she'd never, ever actually harm them.

The construction workers' banter was crude, demeaning, and humiliating. They shouldn't do that. But you shouldn't hurt a jackass just because he brays. Frankly, I find Sydney's simple message of "remember who you're ogling" solves the problem ideally, letting their own common sense catch up with them.

[Dragonus45]

The construction workers' banter was crude, demeaning, and humiliating. They shouldn't do that. But you shouldn't hurt a jackass just because he brays. Frankly, I find Sydney's simple message of "remember who you're ogling" solves the problem ideally, letting their own common sense catch up with them.

Crude perhaps but demeaning or humiliating? All they did was say they were hot and that they would totally hit it if were ever a possibility, and considering the comic has gags like the great sexy picture exchange with one of the characters covertly snapping pictures of one of the guys with their shirt off and the page were talking about has more cheesecake than the cheesecake factory its pretty hypocritical to call them jackasses for commenting on said cheesecake.

[Calemyr]

Crude perhaps but demeaning or humiliating? All they did was say they were hot and that they would totally hit it if were ever a possibility, and considering the comic has gags like the great sexy picture exchange with one of the characters covertly snapping pictures of one of the guys with their shirt off and the page were talking about has more cheesecake than the cheesecake factory its pretty hypocritical to call them jackasses for commenting on said cheesecake.

I am neither a female nor stunningly attractive, so I can only try to envision their perspective, but I would venture to say that it's not particularly complimentary to be informed that spectators see you as flesh that is easy on the eyes, spectators who lend no consideration to the desires or the feelings of their eye candy. Sure, it's nice to be reassured of your pleasant appearance once in a while, but after the fiftieth time or so, it likely ceases to be complimentary and quickly suggests that their looks are all they are.

I should point out that it's the commentary that gets on my nerves. You're right, being offended that someone is enjoying looking at a pretty lady would by hypocritical for this strip, though in fairness Dave is not particularly biased in his presentation of the genders (though I would like to see one guy in the story admit that the heroes present as unfair and unattainable body image as the heroines). And both genders do the ogling thing in the story (including Peggy and even Maxima). That's not the problem. Their comments are. Those comments dismiss them as people and cast them as objects. As the great and wise Esmerelda Weatherwax once said, "People as things, that's where [sin] starts." Yes, sometimes I do quote Terry Pratchett as gospel. If you don't like it, tough.

Now, those construction workers aren't meaning any harm by their words. They're just playing a game of machismo one-ups-manship. But they're still acting like jackasses. And, let's be frank, most people do, every once in a while. I know I do.

[Dragonus45]

I am neither a female nor stunningly attractive, so I can only try to envision their perspective, but I would venture to say that it's not particularly complimentary to be informed that spectators see you as flesh that is easy on the eyes, spectators who lend no consideration to the desires or the feelings of their eye candy. Sure, it's nice to be reassured of your pleasant appearance once in a while, but after the fiftieth time or so, it likely ceases to be complimentary and quickly suggests that their looks are all they are.

While I have never done "construction" work as a lot of people see the job I have done a fair bit of roofing work at places where construction was happening or just finished and a fair bit of other jobs that require outside manual labor like landscaping and the like. I can't help but feel that the entire construction workers catcall someone things has been taken a little widely out of context, it hardly ever happened and if you think that it goes one way your wrong. Because while I am neither female nor stunningly attractive myself before I hurt my back I did have a fair bit of muscle and I was in the company of some guys who were truly ripped in all the best ways and I can tell you some of the things I would hear going about with my shirt off trumped anything I ever heard a guy say myself. I take umbridge at the idea in general that somehow a womans self worth could be damaged by excessive compliments it portrays women as rather fragile and weak minded and comes across a bit dismissive.



Their comments are. Those comments dismiss them as people and cast them as objects. As the great and wise Esmerelda Weatherwax once said, "People as things, that's where [sin] starts." Yes, sometimes I do quote Terry Pratchett as gospel. If you don't like it, tough.

Now, those construction workers aren't meaning any harm by their words. They're just playing a game of machismo one-ups-manship. But they're still acting like jackasses. And, let's be frank, most people do, every once in a while. I know I do.

This part right here is what's bothering me about the entire subject matter, how on earth does finding someone attractive looking over to your mate and commenting they are attractive with perhaps a bit of humor or a layer of innuendo make that person an object. By that logic any time you ever find a person attractive your seeing them as less human and the very act of viewing a woman as a sexual creature is harmful to them. Also I once again vehemently disagree with those guys being "jackasses" all they did was comment amongst themselves that the supers were stacked, which they are as the comic likes to go out of its way to tell us all the time. You may as well call ever human being who has ever commented on someone cute passing them at the mall or commented that they liked someone a jackass.

[Calemyr]

While I have never done "construction" work as a lot of people see the job I have done a fair bit of roofing work at places where construction was happening or just finished and a fair bit of other jobs that require outside manual labor like landscaping and the like. I can't help but feel that the entire construction workers catcall someone things has been taken a little widely out of context, it hardly ever happened and if you think that it goes one way your wrong. Because while I am neither female nor stunningly attractive myself before I hurt my back I did have a fair bit of muscle and I was in the company of some guys who were truly ripped in all the best ways and I can tell you some of the things I would hear going about with my shirt off trumped anything I ever heard a guy say myself. I take umbridge at the idea in general that somehow a womans self worth could be damaged by excessive compliments it portrays women as rather fragile and weak minded and comes across a bit dismissive.

You are right, ladies are getting just as bad about it as men (possibly worse because the double standard has shifted in their favor on the matter). And you're right that the cliche of crude construction workers is probably unfair and outdated. I wouldn't know. I'm a nerd. Manual labor is sort of my anathema.


This part right here is what's bothering me about the entire subject matter, how on earth does finding someone attractive looking over to your mate and commenting they are attractive with perhaps a bit of humor or a layer of innuendo make that person an object. By that logic any time you ever find a person attractive your seeing them as less human and the very act of viewing a woman as a sexual creature is harmful to them. Also I once again vehemently disagree with those guys being "jackasses" all they did was comment amongst themselves that the supers were stacked, which they are as the comic likes to go out of its way to tell us all the time. You may as well call ever human being who has ever commented on someone cute passing them at the mall or commented that they liked someone a jackass.

The problem isn't "creature", the problem is "object". It's not saying "that is a person I would love to get to know", or even "that is a person I would enjoy getting intimate with", it's saying "that is a body I would love to play with". They're not talking about these ladies as people. That's the part that bothers my sensibilities, anyway. No doubt mine isn't the only perspective in the world. And I do believe I did call practically everyone (including myself) a jackass in my last post, at least some of the time. You don't have to be one to act like one. They were acting like jackasses. I'm probably acting like one right now, come to think of it, taking umbrage on behalf of a population I have no right to speak for. You don't have to be ill-meaning to bray.

[Dragonus45]

The problem isn't "creature", the problem is "object". It's not saying "that is a person I would love to get to know", or even "that is a person I would enjoy getting intimate with", it's saying "that is a body I would love to play with". They're not talking about these ladies as people. That's the part that bothers my sensibilities, anyway. No doubt mine isn't the only perspective in the world. And I do believe I did call practically everyone (including myself) a jackass in my last post, at least some of the time. You don't have to be one to act like one. They were acting like jackasses. I'm probably acting like one right now, come to think of it, taking umbrage on behalf of a population I have no right to speak for. You don't have to be ill-meaning to bray.

I think my disconnect here is the object bit. I just don't see how someone being viewed sexually=object=damaging to them as people. Normally I would chalk it up to different perspectives as well but I feel like at the default there it turns into treating people like its wrong to find a passing person attractive because somehow you are now viewing them as less of a person. Also well I do believe that everyone can and is a jackass sometimes I still think calling the guys jackasses in that situation is demeaning them for having a private conversation about something that isn't actually wrong.

[Forum Explorer]

Heatwave is not dumb. She states that her brain processes information different than most at one point. http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/413

That link says 'a different, slower, method of processing. Some would call that dumb'. It goes on to say that while she'd never command a squad, she's certainly able to follow orders.

Basically she'd dumb. Not retarded, can't quite function, just not as smart as the average person.

[Shogo]

I think they have said that the heroes have body types just as unattainable as those of the heroines.

I don't remember which comic it is, but there is a throwaway line somewhere where it's said that having bodies like that comes with having powers. If you have powers in the Grrl Power universe, you're going to look amazing.

Sydney of course doesn't get this benefit as she has technology on her side instead of powers. Something she resented when the powers = sexy line came up.

[Admiral Squish]

I'm generally of the opinion that if you wouldn't say something about somebody to their face, you probably shouldn't say it at all. And considering their reactions to the very idea that one of them might have been listening, their comments probably don't meet that criteria.

On the whole sexy pic trade they have going on at Archon. It's important to note it isn't happening behind anyone's backs, everyone knows about it and is okay with it, for the most part. And I like to think if somebody came forward and said 'this thing makes me really uncomfortable, can we please stop it', they probably would. That's one important difference right there.

There are a few key differences between catcalls and compliments.

First, when the construction guys say they'd like to go 'spelunking her valleys', there's no implied 'if she's cool with it'. In these comments, the speaker isn't concerned about how the target might feel about the actions they propose. They reveal that they aren't actually thinking about the person they're talking about, just their body. In the speaker's mind, they've already reduced the target to just that. A body, a doll, a puppet they can pose and play with freely in their minds. The target has no volition in these fantasies. While I'm fairly certain none of these gentlemen would say that women aren't people, words have influence. When people casually talk about a group of people as though they weren't human, that influences the way they think about that group, and sometimes how others think about that group, as well.

Second, they're not talking about the girls, they're talking about themselves. They comment on how looking at the girls makes them feel, about the things they would like to do to the girls, and make jokes about the girl's bodies.

Third, I don't think it can count as a compliment if you're not telling the person. You can talk about somebody in glowing terms, but you can't actually compliment them unless they are aware of your words.

[Frozen_Feet]

There's a really obvious reason why people go "look at that body" instead of "I'd like to know that person":

There's a snowball's chance in Hell of getting to know those persons.

It amazes me that in all discussions of objectification, people miss the real cause and jump to focusing on sexual attraction. We know pretty well these days that a human can only consider a small village's worth of people (~200 persons) as part of their in-group, and the rest are treated as amorphous grey mass or outsiders. It's the same reason why people in cities often don't know who lives in the adjacent apartment flat, while people on the country side often know their neighbours for miles around.

Some random eye-candy who walks into your workplace for one day isn't talked about "like a person" because there'd be no point to it. Considering feelings of a person you have no day-to-day interactions with is a waste of brain power.

And related is the reason why the guys shut up when it's suggested "they might hear us". It's not just a matter of being intimidated. It's a sign this banter was never meant to influence relations between the men and the women in this scene at all. Which is why getting upset about it is stupid.

[Calemyr]

There's a really obvious reason why people go "look at that body" instead of "I'd like to know that person":

There's a snowball's chance in Hell of getting to know those persons.

It amazes me that in all discussions of objectification, people miss the real cause and jump to focusing on sexual attraction. We know pretty well these days that a human can only consider a small village's worth of people (~200 persons) as part of their in-group, and the rest are treated as amorphous grey mass or outsiders. It's the same reason why people in cities often don't know who lives in the adjacent apartment flat, while people on the country side often know their neighbours for miles around.

Some random eye-candy who walks into your workplace for one day isn't talked about "like a person" because there'd be no point to it. Considering feelings of a person you have no day-to-day interactions with is a waste of brain power.

And related is the reason why the guys shut up when it's suggested "they might hear us". It's not just a matter of being intimidated. It's a sign this banter was never meant to influence relations between the men and the women in this scene at all. Which is why getting upset about it is stupid.

There's less than a snowball's chance in Hell of getting to go canoeing, either.

As for the "like a person" argument, I dare suggest that there is a notable distance between "Wow, that person is HOT! I mean look at them!" and "I'd like to X her Y, if you know what I mean". For my part, attraction is not the issue, it's objectification.

[Admiral Squish]

Humans might be only able to think of ~200 people as their tribe/in-group/posse/whatever, but that doesn't mean it's okay to treat everyone else as less than people. You might not know their names or their faces or anything about them, but you still have to have a basic respect for them as people. I'm probably never gonna get to know my waiter, but that doesn't mean it's okay for me to trip them as they walk past with a precariously-balanced tray. I might not know the homeless guy on the sidewalk, but that doesn't mean it's okay to tell him to 'get a job' as I walk past. They're still people.
And by no means am I saying sexual attraction is badwrongfun. People are attracted to people, it's what got us all here and what will hopefully keep the species going for a long long time to come. But you can be sexually attracted to somebody outside your in-group and still respect that they're a person. For example, if 'some random eye-candy' walks into your workplace, maybe instead of fantasizing about all the things you'd want to do to their body if they didn't have a choice in the matter, you just think 'wow, they're really hot' and move on. You could even say "Wow, they're really hot" to a coworker, or "Wow, you're really hot" to them, if you're feeling brave. Just don't pretend they're mindless bodies to be used at your leisure because that's super-creepy.

[John Campbell]

Heatwave is not dumb. She states that her brain processes information different than most at one point. http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/413
I didn't say she was dumb. Just that her "different, some would say slower, method of processing data" probably means she's confused a lot of the time.

[Avilan the Grey]

I don't really see a problem with what they were saying, since they didn't say it TO the women.
But then I definitely would not have a problem with a bunch of women ogling a hot guy and commenting either.

[Dragonus45]

There's less than a snowball's chance in Hell of getting to go canoeing, either.

As for the "like a person" argument, I dare suggest that there is a notable distance between "Wow, that person is HOT! I mean look at them!" and "I'd like to X her Y, if you know what I mean". For my part, attraction is not the issue, it's objectification.

Are those statements not identical in nature and meaning?

[Admiral Squish]

Are those statements not identical in nature and meaning?
Similar, yes, but not identical. In the first, the woman is the subject. She is the topic commented upon, the focus. In the second, the speaker is the subject. The woman is the object, whom things happen to.

[halfeye]

Similar, yes, but not identical. In the first, the woman is the subject. She is the topic commented upon, the focus. In the second, the speaker is the subject. The woman is the object, whom things happen to.
That's a very technical view of language. It might make sense in a world where extreme Whorfianism worked, but I don't think it's realistic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

[Dragonus45]

Similar, yes, but not identical. In the first, the woman is the subject. She is the topic commented upon, the focus. In the second, the speaker is the subject. The woman is the object, whom things happen to.

That seems to me like a very narrow line. Especially when the accusations for "sexism" involved in the second quote are rather serious. Also the Shapir-Whorf hypothesis is a load of bunk.

[HandofShadows]

Maxima and Dues KNOW each other and Dues was trying to DATE her? :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

[lord_khaine]

I can honestly not understand why the last bit were any sort of surprise whatsoever? :smallconfused:

The huge bomb dropped in todays comic, were the hints that Maxima had not been completely uninterested in Deus.

[Kantaki]

Machina Industries' mission statement is great. I would work that guy.:smallamused:

But that Deus and Maxima dated at some point in the past is much more interesting.:smallbiggrin:

[halfeye]

Machina Industries' mission statement is great. I would work that guy.:smallamused:

But that Deus and Maxima dated at some point in the past is much more interesting.:smallbiggrin:
The whole point of this page is that they agree they didn't date, but each of them thinks the other thought they were dating.

Which is hilarious.

[Kantaki]

The whole point of this page is that they agree they didn't date, but each of them thinks the other thought they were dating.

Which is hilarious.

I don't know, the mini-comic makes it sound as if they have different definitions of what a date is.
Or at least that Deus makes weird presents to his business partners.
I mean jewellery? Boots? I can understand if Maxima filed that under "he tried to date me".

[halfeye]

I don't know, the mini-comic makes it sound as if they have different definitions of what a date is.

Yeah, that's exactly it. :smallbiggrin:

<edit>

Mini-comic? :smallconfused:

[Calemyr]

Yeah, that's exactly it. :smallbiggrin:

<edit>

Mini-comic? :smallconfused:

The quick little unofficial footnote after the comic prior where Maxima and Deus are bantering about gifts. GP has them fairly often, and they're always worth looking at.

[halfeye]

The quick little unofficial footnote after the comic prior where Maxima and Deus are bantering about gifts. GP has them fairly often, and they're always worth looking at.

Thanks for that, I think I've seen two more now, I don't think I'll bother archive binging for them though.

[lord_khaine]

Something i kinda missed though, what sort of burn was it that Deus suposedly managed to score? :smallconfused:

What is it with him making those finger motions as he mentions her name?

[Qwertystop]

Something i kinda missed though, what sort of burn was it that Deus suposedly managed to score? :smallconfused:

What is it with him making those finger motions as he mentions her name?

Yeah. Maxima did it for his name, strongly implying that it was a fake name - so he did it for hers, because frankly it's just as ridiculous of a name if not moreso.

[Yuki Akuma]

Something i kinda missed though, what sort of burn was it that Deus suposedly managed to score? :smallconfused:

What is it with him making those finger motions as he mentions her name?

He's making "air quotes".

[lord_khaine]

Oh yeah of course, missed the "Deus" part in Maximas greeting.
Think it actually was a good comeback on Deus's part then.

[Drascin]

I can honestly not understand why the last bit were any sort of surprise whatsoever? :smallconfused:

The huge bomb dropped in todays comic, were the hints that Maxima had not been completely uninterested in Deus.

Which makes one wonder why, given Deus is apparently more than a bit of a creep, in addition to his general assholishness. I suppose we can add "terrible taste" to Maxima's list of flaws.

[Avilan the Grey]

Personally I wonder how much of her outwards personality is Military Training. I hate to get stereotypical here, but she has herself admitted to "have been" quite the nerd. And even if nerds are not as awkward as dorks (but more than geeks), they (we?) are usually portrayed as far less socially skilled than "muggles". She might honestly have misread him.

Also of course, I hope it doesn't turn out that he's the "cause" of her feminism. Because that would be tacky writing, I feel.

[5a Violista]

I'm actually most surprised that Deus isn't his actual name. (I mean, I've met someone with that last name, so I just assumed that Deus was a guy who went by his last name that just happened to be conveniently related.)

[Discus-Spinner]

Which makes one wonder why, given Deus is apparently more than a bit of a creep, in addition to his general assholishness. I suppose we can add "terrible taste" to Maxima's list of flaws.
He's quite a bit of a creep, but he also has a fairly forceful personality with some long-term goals. Also, while being rich in itself shouldn't make him appealing to someone like Maxima, he spends his money with a certain amount of style. The boots with nigh-indestructible cleats were a nice touch with her.

She's evidently got his number now, but I could see a certain amount of wanting to assess what was in the package when they first met. Hence the possibly-dates.

[Calemyr]

Personally I wonder how much of her outwards personality is Military Training. I hate to get stereotypical here, but she has herself admitted to "have been" quite the nerd. And even if nerds are not as awkward as dorks (but more than geeks), they (we?) are usually portrayed as far less socially skilled than "muggles". She might honestly have misread him.

Also of course, I hope it doesn't turn out that he's the "cause" of her feminism. Because that would be tacky writing, I feel.

Deus was probably part of it, but not the whole thing. She is an exotic beauty with a superhuman figure. Her encounter rate with jackasses who think of her as only a target of conquest has got to be high. Astoundingly high. Put someone with that kind of experience in the room with a guy like Deus, with his lavish (if miss-chosen) gifts, high charisma, and ingratiating manner, and it's not hard to imagine Maxima coming to the conclusion that the guy is just trying to buy his way into her pants.

Deus, on the other hand, assumes she's after him because... well... he's Deus. He's a rockstar. The women want him and the men want to be him. It's not megalomania when it's true, after all. Sadly, professional ethics mean he can't entertain her interests. No doubt she was devastated by the news.

[lord_khaine]

I on the other hand have no idea where the heck the creep label is comming from. Deus's list of personal flaws are no doubt a mile long, in no small part because every second word on that list is egomaniac.
But i cant find the creep part anywhere on it. He has bought gifts for Max? so what? Is that not a rather common curting gesture, if perhaps one that is a little old fashioned?

And terrible taste? i would say no. To start with Deus has just about everything. Power, looks, charm, confidence, brain.
While at the same time Max actually has a severly limited dating pool. if she want any sort of meaningful relationship then she kinda needs a person thats an equal in some sense, Deus fits the bill on that.
She also needs someone who is not going to be intimidated by her powers, again i think Deus is one of the few people with the self confidence to completely ignore she could turn him into dust with a glance.

[Avilan the Grey]

I on the other hand have no idea where the heck the creep label is comming from.

I agree to a point; he is less of a creep and more a... nut.

[Drascin]

I on the other hand have no idea where the heck the creep label is comming from. Deus's list of personal flaws are no doubt a mile long, in no small part because every second word on that list is egomaniac.
But i cant find the creep part anywhere on it. He has bought gifts for Max? so what? Is that not a rather common curting gesture, if perhaps one that is a little old fashioned?

Buying expensive gifts for someone who hasn't even yet expressed an interest on you is in fact far more on the "freaking loser" and/or "possessive creep, get away from as far as possible" areas than the "cute courtship" area. It's generally accepted as a way to try to obligate other person to pay attention to you by way of indebtment, and is generally considered a MAJOR warning flag.

[lord_khaine]

Buying expensive gifts for someone who hasn't even yet expressed an interest on you is in fact far more on the "freaking loser" and/or "possessive creep, get away from as far as possible" areas than the "cute courtship" area. It's generally accepted as a way to try to obligate other person to pay attention to you by way of indebtment, and is generally considered a MAJOR warning flag.

To start with, i dont see the gifts as expensive myself, at least not when considering just how filthy rich Deus and Max suposedly are.
Also, we do not know if Max had expressed interest yet at that point or not, so thats kinda a moot point.

For that matter, i kinda disagree with how generally accepted that is. Since you always have the option of returning or rejecting a present if you dont care for the person offering it.

[Douglas]

Regardless of monetary price, my impression is that a choker as a gift is a pretty unambiguous declaration of interest that you expect (not merely hope) to be reciprocated, and depending on the specifics (in particular whether the M is for "Maxima" or "Machina") may indicate a metaphorical declaration of ownership (some people are into that sort of thing).

So, yeah. Creepiness.

Clothing and jewelry in general can carry the same associated message, especially if it's chosen with an eye to appearing sexy, but it's a lot more variable.

[lord_khaine]

Whats so special about a choker? :smallconfused:
As far as i can see its just a fance necklace variant. And i really dont see how it goes from wanting attention, to expecting attention.
Even there though, assuming both people are playing by the same set of rules, then i still dont see anything creepy in it, since as previously mentioned its always an option to not accept the gift.

As for the metaphorical part, it is pretty hard to see it standing for Machina when the person wearing it goes by the name Maxima. For those people into that sort of thing it would need to be acknowledged by both parts what sort of actual secret meaning the M had, before it had any meaning.

The nut brand i can certainly see though, but again thats old news. Deus is only slightly less nutty than Sydney, and both of them leaves the remaining cast behind in the dust.

[Calemyr]

Whats so special about a choker? :smallconfused:
As far as i can see its just a fance necklace variant. And i really dont see how it goes from wanting attention, to expecting attention.
Even there though, assuming both people are playing by the same set of rules, then i still dont see anything creepy in it, since as previously mentioned its always an option to not accept the gift.

As for the metaphorical part, it is pretty hard to see it standing for Machina when the person wearing it goes by the name Maxima. For those people into that sort of thing it would need to be acknowledged by both parts what sort of actual secret meaning the M had, before it had any meaning.

The nut brand i can certainly see though, but again thats old news. Deus is only slightly less nutty than Sydney, and both of them leaves the remaining cast behind in the dust.

It was encrusted with rubies. That takes it from a gift to a gift, if you follow me. But, again, I doubt he was trying to court her in any manner but professional. Deus just expects women will have an interest in him, after all. Of course, they would. I mean, he's Deus.

[Dragonus45]

Buying expensive gifts for someone who hasn't even yet expressed an interest on you is in fact far more on the "freaking loser" and/or "possessive creep, get away from as far as possible" areas than the "cute courtship" area. It's generally accepted as a way to try to obligate other person to pay attention to you by way of indebtment, and is generally considered a MAJOR warning flag.

Or, in general, instead of applying malicious intention and subtext to someone wanting to give someone a gift we could just call it a gift and move on.

[Forum Explorer]

It was encrusted with rubies. That takes it from a gift to a gift, if you follow me.

For ordinary mortals maybe. When Deus says you'd know if they were dates it's because for him a diamond the size of your head is the equivalent of taking a pal out to the bar.

[Calemyr]

For ordinary mortals maybe. When Deus says you'd know if they were dates it's because for him a diamond the size of your head is the equivalent of taking a pal out to the bar.

Exactly. Maxima saw it as the way an "ordinary mortal" would, as a suitor trying like hell to get on her good side, while Deus saw it as nothing worth mentioning.

As for today's strip:

1) Riddick's claw daggers from the Chronicles of Riddick movies.
2) Soul Edge from the Soul Calibur Series.
3) The half scissors from Kill La Kill.
4) Cresent Rose from RWBY.
10) Renji's sword from Bleach.
12) Green Destiny from Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon
13) Buster Sword from Final Fantasy VII.
14) Sting from The Hobbit
15) Kratos' chaos blade from the God of War series (this one's just a guess).
17) Conan's sword from the Conan the Barbarian movies.
18) Ecalibur
19) Sword of Omens from Thundercats
20) The Master Sword from the Legend of Zelda series.
21) He-Man's sword from The Masters of the Universe
22) Dawnbreaker from Skyrim
24) A Klingon Bat Leth from Star Trek (probably got the spelling wrong, I'm going completely by memory for this).

[Kantaki]

The best part about that collection is the implication that those are the originals, that those weapons are the real deal.
Or Deus is just messing with Sydney. But that would be boring.

[lord_khaine]

Well.. turns out Deus and Sydney does indeed get along like a house on fire.

Seems there is also a bit more evidence for Vale being powered in some way, we get a better look at her body, and she does seem to have the powered person build.

[Emperordaniel]

Exactly. Maxima saw it as the way an "ordinary mortal" would, as a suitor trying like hell to get on her good side, while Deus saw it as nothing worth mentioning.

As for today's strip:

1) Riddick's claw daggers from the Chronicles of Riddick movies.
2) Soul Edge from the Soul Calibur Series.
3) The half scissors from Kill La Kill.
4) Cresent Rose from RWBY.
10) Renji's sword from Bleach.
12) Green Destiny from Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon
13) Buster Sword from Final Fantasy VII.
14) Sting from The Hobbit
15) Kratos' chaos blade from the God of War series (this one's just a guess).
17) Conan's sword from the Conan the Barbarian movies.
18) Ecalibur
19) Sword of Omens from Thundercats
20) The Master Sword from the Legend of Zelda series.
21) He-Man's sword from The Masters of the Universe
22) Dawnbreaker from Skyrim
24) A Klingon Bat Leth from Star Trek (probably got the spelling wrong, I'm going completely by memory for this).



#11 is Anduril, Aragorn's reforged sword from The Lord of the Rings.

I'm ashamed to say that that one and Dawnbreaker were the only ones I recognized immediately. :smallredface:

[BannedInSchool]

A lot of them I recognize, but not well enough to place. "Some anime sword" for several. :smallbiggrin: And then there's #7, which I know is from some movie, but durned if I can remember which.

Hmm, no Highlander ivory-handled katana. Disappoint. :smalltongue:

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think Deus is trying to imply that he's Gilgamesh.

[Dragonus45]

I think Deus is trying to imply that he's Gilgamesh.

Or Deus mugged him for the sweet loot.

[HandofShadows]

In which Sidney proves she has an EXCELENT mastery of Psy Ops. :smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

New comic

Well, Deus definitely is a brave man.
Making that kind of offer to Maxima.
But his last quip is pretty good.

I wonder how the negotiations will go.

[lord_khaine]

Thats not really bravery. Its just knowing Max is not going to put herself in a position where she would be required to arrest herself :smalltongue:

Though yeah, the last quirp from Deus were pretty sharp.

[Calemyr]

"Golden Grip Boots: It takes a special boot to kick this much ass."

[Dragonus45]

Actually the more I think about the more I think Maxima could sell the heck out of some boots.

[Traab]

Yes, and now her new theme song is "These Boots Were Made For Walking." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww)

[HandofShadows]

Yes, and now her new theme song is "These Boots Were Made For Walking." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww)

I will say it's a toss up between that and Sydney's pick of "Bad to the Bone". :smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

New Comic

That offer sounds really good. Deus knows what he is doing. And he "jokes" about bribing politicans.
Maxima still wins this round. "Invisible Jet":smallbiggrin:

[AvatarVecna]

New Comic

That offer sounds really good. Deus knows what he is doing. And he "jokes" about bribing politicans.
Maxima still wins this round. "Invisible Jet":smallbiggrin:

My reaction was pretty similar to Deus' reaction, only his drink probably wasn't Dr Pepper.

It'll probably never happen, but I hope to whatever powers may be that somewhere down the line, during one of Sydney's training montages, she accidentally runs into some kind of invisible aircraft.

[Traab]

My reaction was pretty similar to Deus' reaction, only his drink probably wasn't Dr Pepper.

It'll probably never happen, but I hope to whatever powers may be that somewhere down the line, during one of Sydney's training montages, she accidentally runs into some kind of invisible aircraft.

It was 40 year old scotch. That spit probably equaled the cost of his suit.

[John Campbell]

The Invisible Jet baffles me. Not only am I confused as to the benefit of a vehicle that's itself invisible, but doesn't render its occupant invisible, which seems just like a good way to lose it because you forgot where you parked... according to her DC Adventures stats, the Invisible Jet gives Wonder Woman Flight 11, while Wonder Woman herself has innately... Flight 11.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, honestly the only use for the jet seems to be transport of more squishy teammembers, when GL is not around to do so.

[Traab]

Yeah, honestly the only use for the jet seems to be transport of more squishy teammembers, when GL is not around to do so.

Iirc, she got the jet when her character was unable to fly. But yeah, an invisible jet that doesnt make you invisible is a strange thing indeed.

[lord_khaine]

Iirc, she got the jet when her character was unable to fly. But yeah, an invisible jet that doesnt make you invisible is a strange thing indeed.

Oh, that actually explains a lot, so its a legacy item of sorts.
I guess the same reason for why she got the bullet blocking bracers, its before she got her power boosts.

Anyway, new strip had me laughing for close to a minutte.
Kinda touching actually that Deus has saved the bowl from back then.

And im still chuckling a little from the comment at the bottom of the comic about pulling pigtails :smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

:smallbiggrin:I really like Deus:smallbiggrin:
Trolling Maxima is a artform.:smallbiggrin: And the pigtails comment makes it even better.

[Traab]

He is such a great troll, I love this guy.

[HandofShadows]

Well, well, WELL. That was quite a surprise. Seems that Max wasn't born with her powers.

[Kantaki]

That thing almost looks as if was supposed to be opened. I wonder what it really was. And where it came from.
Now we have two teammembers the Space-Cops might to investigate.

[AvatarVecna]

Oh hell...if Deus manages to figure out where those things came from, he could make an army of Maxima's.

Of course, that depends on its exact origins; we already know that aliens and demons are a thing (thanks to Dabbler), so there's a lot of places it could've come from. Of course, you'd think "strange rock we don't know where it came from that has some kind of liquid in it" would be the kind of thing scientists might investigate befure shrugging their shoulders and tossing the who-knows-where-it-came-from rock into a museum.

EDIT: And Maxima being the first (and so far, only) person to get any of that liquid on them, when the exhibit is apparently open for people to handle the rock, seems...a little bit weird. The entire set-up feels kinda strange, actually, now that I think about it.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

EDIT: And Maxima being the first (and so far, only) person to get any of that liquid on them, when the exhibit is apparently open for people to handle the rock, seems...a little bit weird. The entire set-up feels kinda strange, actually, now that I think about it.

Strange like how Sydney found her orbs while scuba diving? For now they're the only two who "found" their power and yes, it is quite odd in both cases.

[Qwertystop]

Oh hell...if Deus manages to figure out where those things came from, he could make an army of Maxima's.

Of course, that depends on its exact origins; we already know that aliens and demons are a thing (thanks to Dabbler), so there's a lot of places it could've come from. Of course, you'd think "strange rock we don't know where it came from that has some kind of liquid in it" would be the kind of thing scientists might investigate befure shrugging their shoulders and tossing the who-knows-where-it-came-from rock into a museum.

EDIT: And Maxima being the first (and so far, only) person to get any of that liquid on them, when the exhibit is apparently open for people to handle the rock, seems...a little bit weird. The entire set-up feels kinda strange, actually, now that I think about it.

That's not an exhibit, it's a sales bin. And presumably it somehow didn't get linked to her, so it's just a geode from the bin that some jerk opened and then didn't take or pay for.

[AvatarVecna]

That's not an exhibit, it's a sales bin. And presumably it somehow didn't get linked to her, so it's just a geode from the bin that some jerk opened and then didn't take or pay for.

I guess the rest of the geodes didn't have super-water in them then? Because if the museum was selling these, they likely had a source for where they came from (like, where they were found), which means there might be more of them. But if that was the only rock with super-water, then it's just kinda random chance that Maxima (who was military-minded and extremely patriotic) happened to be the one blessed with a rock that turns her into Superwoman. The possibility of their being more Maxima's out there is frightening; the idea that it could easily have been some random kid dragged to a museum (or worse, some random teenager) is downright terrifying, especially if it wasn't the only one in the bunch.

I hope the next page gives a bit of clarity on this, otherwise I'm gonna be worried about the origins of this rock for quite some time...

[Dragonus45]

Its also possible that she was always going to develop powers and the geode thing just shifted the direction they grew in.

[HandofShadows]

EDIT: And Maxima being the first (and so far, only) person to get any of that liquid on them, when the exhibit is apparently open for people to handle the rock, seems...a little bit weird. The entire set-up feels kinda strange, actually, now that I think about it.

She just didn't get it on her, she got some of it in her mouth.

[5a Violista]

I've handled geodes just like that one before, and I haven't gained any superpowers yet. I feel kind-of left out.

I think it's safe to assume that Maxima is the only one to have gained powers this way. The biggest evidence is that there is nobody else who has similar powers to her. Another evidence is the fact that the now-opened geode was practically thrown away without any thought about it. So, either it was complete chance that she gained her powers, or she already was going to get powers anyway.

My wild guess is that the geode was actually an alien's egg disguised as a geode.

[Traab]

I've handled geodes just like that one before, and I haven't gained any superpowers yet. I feel kind-of left out.

I think it's safe to assume that Maxima is the only one to have gained powers this way. The biggest evidence is that there is nobody else who has similar powers to her. Another evidence is the fact that the now-opened geode was practically thrown away without any thought about it. So, either it was complete chance that she gained her powers, or she already was going to get powers anyway.

My wild guess is that the geode was actually an alien's egg disguised as a geode.

Unless she sprouted gigantic boobs and golden skin right there on the spot, its no wonder they tossed a broken geode. Once her powers came up im sure deus and probably others, tried to figure out their source. Which lead to the geode, which lead to deus finding out where it went and grabbing it just in case.

[halfeye]

Unless she sprouted gigantic boobs and golden skin right there on the spot, its no wonder they tossed a broken geode.
Except it didn't look like a geode inside, not at all, somebody should have seen it wasn't.

[Discus-Spinner]

Unless she sprouted gigantic boobs and golden skin right there on the spot, its no wonder they tossed a broken geode. Once her powers came up im sure deus and probably others, tried to figure out their source. Which lead to the geode, which lead to deus finding out where it went and grabbing it just in case.
Just in case he wanted to troll Maxima, of course...


Except it didn't look like a geode inside, not at all, somebody should have seen it wasn't.
Where are you getting that from?

[HandofShadows]

Where are you getting that from?

I think he is getting it from that the inside if the geode did not in fact look very much like a geode (https://www.google.com/search?q=geode+water+inside&biw=1440&bih=752&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7r5yqjpPMAhWISCYKHdbjAOgQsAQILA). The inside of Max's "geode" had a very clear hexagonal patter to it. Geode's are not like that.

[AvatarVecna]

...which draws even more parallels to Sydney's orbs: when the shield is hit by particularly powerful blows, a hexagonal pattern ripples across it. Coincidence? Sydney's shield is at least somewhere close to the "Maxima" level of toughness, at least the basic level, and it's currently un-upgraded. Sure, the tentacle isn't coming in at a super-high super-strength now, but what if later upgrades get her a lot closer to Maxima level strength? So many delicious possibilities...

[HandofShadows]

I wouldn't read to much into both using a hexagon pattern. It's one of the strongest (if not the strongest) construction designs in nature.

[Yuki Akuma]

I wouldn't read to much into both using a hexagon pattern. It's one of the strongest (if not the strongest) construction designs in nature.

Plus, you know, hexagons are a pretty popular shape for forcefield effects (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeehiveBarrier).

[BannedInSchool]

I prefer tessellated octagons. :smallbiggrin:

[Kantaki]

New Comic

Maxi's powers (or at least some part of them) "choose her? That is a interesting idea.
Could even make sense, the what-ever-it-really-is (the "Geode") looked as if it was meant to open the way it did.

The way her new skin revealed itself is great. I would prefer a less gradual change, but it gives her that amazing Terminator look (in gold).

[AvatarVecna]

While it resulted in a pretty bad sunburn, it looks like Maxima got that nice golden tan she always wanted! :smallbiggrin:

A bit more seriously, the idea that this thing chose her is interesting...although with the origin of the "geode" still unknown, it's still possible there's more of these things out there.

[Avilan the Grey]

While it resulted in a pretty bad sunburn, it looks like Maxima got that nice golden tan she always wanted! :smallbiggrin:

A bit more seriously, the idea that this thing chose her is interesting...although with the origin of the "geode" still unknown, it's still possible there's more of these things out there.

Hmm... Come to think of it, did the Balls choose Sydney?
Are there more artifacts out there? Is there a master plan?

[Kantaki]

Hmm... Come to think of it, did the Balls choose Sydney?
Are there more artifacts out there? Is there a master plan?

Wasn't there supposed to be more about the finding the Orbs story than Halo told the ARC guys (and the audience). Maybe she didn't find them. No I won't joke about her stealing them or something like that. Even if that was my theory until now.:smalltongue: But it's possible they "made" her find them or someone gave them to her Green Lantern style.

[Avilan the Grey]

Maxima's story has a bit of a Witchblade vibe to it. Sydney's too, but not at all to the same degree.

[Traab]

Im sensing a spinoff series devoted to origin stories. Ok, thats wishful thinking, but could be interesting to see how each hero has reacted to their powers developing or whatever. Covering their pre comic adventures of various types. Sure there will be some repeating themes like the girls dealing with being "different" growing up. In Kenyas case her extreme height, in Max's case.... DUUUUUH!!!!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXmk1yfeYj4) and maybe harem and her multi self issues. But some went into the military, some didnt, some were alien demon adventurers before coming to earth. It could be pretty awesome.

[AvatarVecna]

Ignoring the fairly obvious spambot, I think a spin-off about various character's origin stories would certainly be interesting, but I think I'd rather like to see where the main story is going before looking for spin-offs.

[Yuki Akuma]

We already know where the main story is going. We've been in a flashback for years. :smallwink:

[AvatarVecna]

We already know where the main story is going. We've been in a flashback for years. :smallwink:

Ignoring that what we know about what happens after the stuff in the flashback is pretty limited (Sydney's in the military, as are a lot of other characters...but that's already true early on), it's not just about the destination, it's about the journey.

[Traab]

So, im doing yet another archive trawl, mainly out of boredom, and im reading the early comics when maxima was testing her shield. I still dont get why she couldnt just do her best hydraulic press imitation and try to crush the shield instead of punching it. That would be way quieter, way less destructive, and far easier to quantify, similar to one of the latest comics where max tested how strong her energy tentacle is. Crush it in from the sides and max wouldnt have to worry about damaging the floor. Its also a hell of a lot safer than firing particle blasts at her shield and hoping this time it doesnt obliterate her utterly.

I mean, I realize its a narrative choice to try and keep her orbs a slowly unraveled mystery, but it just seems like a fairly obvious option thats being ignored.

[HandofShadows]

They really didn't have time for a pressure test. Also Max like to blow up things. :smallamused: Sydney also was behind cover and was safe even if the Shield did fail.

New Page
Pale Blue Dot speech fails. :(

[halfeye]

They really didn't have time for a pressure test. Also Max like to blow up things. :smallamused: Sydney also was behind cover and was safe even if the Shield did fail.
I'm not sure that Sydney was safe if there had been no shield at all between the cover and Max's explosion, all cover is relative, and that was a pretty extreme BANG.

[Traab]

I LOVE Deus so much! I swear he is the awesomest troll in existence. Seriously, I hope dave keeps him as ambiguous as possible for as long as possible, because confirmation one way or another would ruin the fun for me. Even that last comment was great. Yeah its PROBABLY about dabbler, but considering what she learned last night? Maybe harem reported this little factoid to him and he was using it to tweak her nose a bit.

[Kantaki]

New Comic


"I can see my house" is what I would say in this situation. The view is just breathtaking.

Not trusting Deus too much seems like a good call. He would bug the rebreather just to find new ways to troll Maxima. And to provide a free security test.

[Traab]

Well ok then! Looks like halo and max are space flight worthy. I love being able to learn new limits to the orbs. Or in this case, pretty much no limits. Her flight orb has no ceiling, and her shield orb can also withstand the vacuum of space. Or near enough to make little difference.

[Calemyr]

Well ok then! Looks like halo and max are space flight worthy. I love being able to learn new limits to the orbs. Or in this case, pretty much no limits. Her flight orb has no ceiling, and her shield orb can also withstand the vacuum of space. Or near enough to make little difference.

Theoretically, at least. Max is specifically keeping them out of vacuum territory at this point, because she isn't sure of the shield's limits. The fact that it maintains a constant air pressure is hardly surprising due to the known complication of non-recycling air. Unless she alters the size of the shield, or the outside pressure is somehow greater than Maxima's blasts, she should be as comfortable in the high sky as on ground.

I suppose it' s not surprising, given Max's skin and personal forcefield (why her gear usually survives impacts while Achilles is left with his rump hanging out), that Max is spaceworthy. Still dependent on oxygen, though, so Max and Sydney are about on the same level space-flight wise.

[Traab]

Theoretically, at least. Max is specifically keeping them out of vacuum territory at this point, because she isn't sure of the shield's limits. The fact that it maintains a constant air pressure is hardly surprising due to the known complication of non-recycling air. Unless she alters the size of the shield, or the outside pressure is somehow greater than Maxima's blasts, she should be as comfortable in the high sky as on ground.

I suppose it' s not surprising, given Max's skin and personal forcefield (why her gear usually survives impacts while Achilles is left with his rump hanging out), that Max is spaceworthy. Still dependent on oxygen, though, so Max and Sydney are about on the same level space-flight wise.

Of course, unless her flight orb has some sort of turbo boost upgrade available that can increase her speed by a factor of 1000 she wont be doing much space travel anyways. Still means she could, for example, leave a space ship to help apply patches to the hull. Though speaking of achilles, I know he is basically invulnerable, so what happens to HIM in space? Does he just float through the emptiness mentally thinking, "bored now"? I know upon reentry he would be thinking, "I hope the landing crew brought a pair of pants with them."

[Calemyr]

Of course, unless her flight orb has some sort of turbo boost upgrade available that can increase her speed by a factor of 1000 she wont be doing much space travel anyways. Still means she could, for example, leave a space ship to help apply patches to the hull. Though speaking of achilles, I know he is basically invulnerable, so what happens to HIM in space? Does he just float through the emptiness mentally thinking, "bored now"? I know upon reentry he would be thinking, "I hope the landing crew brought a pair of pants with them."

I guess she could apply patches using the lighthook, though I'm not certain how much dexterity it has.

As for Achilles, I would expect something akin to Jubal Early in Firefly. Just floating in the black with a bored expression. "Well, here I am..." He is invulnerable. Purely, completely, agonizingly invulnerable, enough to merit an otherwise unheard of sixth star on his invulnerability rating. If simple things like the vacuum of space or asphyxiation could harm him, he wouldn't be a six-star brick. But yeah, I wouldn't expect him to think anything more of atmospheric re-entry than "Darn, I kinda liked these pants.". I mean he survived a Maxima nuke and only lamented his melted marshmallows.

[lord_khaine]

Of course, unless her flight orb has some sort of turbo boost upgrade available that can increase her speed by a factor of 1000 she wont be doing much space travel anyways. Still means she could, for example, leave a space ship to help apply patches to the hull. Though speaking of achilles, I know he is basically invulnerable, so what happens to HIM in space? Does he just float through the emptiness mentally thinking, "bored now"? I know upon reentry he would be thinking, "I hope the landing crew brought a pair of pants with them."

Yeah, well, what else should happen to him? :)
I mean, we know that he is completely immune to any level of force that has been displayed so far, shrugging off both Max's little blast and the idea of being dropped into a vulkano.
At the same time though, he is not immune to the laws of physics. He cant ignore gravily, he does have momentum. So in space he would very swiftly get bored as he could not do anything but float.

At the same time though, he should by now be used enough to running around naked, that the lack of pant would only be a minor concern.

[AvatarVecna]

Of course, unless her flight orb has some sort of turbo boost upgrade available that can increase her speed by a factor of 1000 she wont be doing much space travel anyways.

Actually, has her top speed been confirmed, in-comic or otherwise? I know she reached 500 mph awhile back while flying with Maxima, but...well, they've got to be pretty high, and getting that high isn't easy, IIRC. If nothing else, I'm pretty sure they're not reaching escape velocity...although if they were, that would make for some very interesting implications...

Still, yeah, space travel is gonna be slow, even if Sydney's capable of moving at escape velocity indefinitely; Earth's EV is pretty fast, but space is huge.

[Admiral Squish]

I don't think there is an 'escape velocity' when it comes to super-powered flight. Like, supers don't seem to produce thrust behind them when they fly, so they're not actively fighting gravity. Hovering would create notable air disturbances if they did, like a mini-helicopter. I think any super who could fly in the typical super way could probably escape earth's gravity, they'd just do it at different relative speeds, unless their power had a built-in flight ceiling for some mysterious reason.

[Ibrinar]

Escape velocity does not matter anyway if you constantly accelerate while flying. As long as your speed is positive (which will stay true if your acceleration is as least equal to g) you will eventually reach space.

[Traab]

Actually, has her top speed been confirmed, in-comic or otherwise? I know she reached 500 mph awhile back while flying with Maxima, but...well, they've got to be pretty high, and getting that high isn't easy, IIRC. If nothing else, I'm pretty sure they're not reaching escape velocity...although if they were, that would make for some very interesting implications...

Still, yeah, space travel is gonna be slow, even if Sydney's capable of moving at escape velocity indefinitely; Earth's EV is pretty fast, but space is huge.

BOOM! (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1856) She currently tops out at mach 4. Very respectable speed for terrestrial travel, not so fancy for space travel.

[John Campbell]

Talking about how things actually work when superpowers are involved is always iffy, but... thing is, "speed" isn't really a thing. It's always relative to something, and depending on what it's relative to, an object's velocity may be any number of wildly different things simultaneously. Just standing around, Sydney's not moving relative to the ground, but she's moving maybe 600 m/s relative to the moon, and almost 30 km/s relative to the sun.

In an atmosphere, it makes sense to talk about airspeed - speed relative to the surrounding atmosphere - and about "top speed" - being the point where thrust and drag counterbalance, and you can't go any faster because you can't push hard enough to overcome the increasing resistance of the air you're pushing through.

Once into space, though, there's nothing obvious to measure speed relative to - that "relative to the ground" (Earth), "relative to the moon", and "relative to the sun" are all equally arbitrary and equally sensible, depending on the situation - and there's no noticeable drag to counteract your thrust. There's no real reason that Sydney couldn't just keep accelerating forever, arbitrarily close to the speed of light. How long it takes her to get from Point A to Point B isn't a matter of "top speed", which is a null concept, but of how quickly she can accelerate - which we don't really know.

And escape velocity is just the velocity (relative to the Earth, or whatever body it is you're trying to escape) where if you stop accelerating, you will not ever fall back to it, but just keep going off into space forever, because its gravitational attraction drops off with distance more rapidly than your outward velocity does because of its gravity. If you're under acceleration, it isn't really relevant.

The DC Adventures system has the Flight power, and increasing ranks in it increases your top speed. But it only applies in atmosphere. In space, it doesn't use the Flight power, but rather the Movement (space travel) power, and the Movement power doesn't have top speed or speed ranks. It's just "Interplanetary", "Interstellar", "Intergalactic", and it's assumed that you can travel such distances in a reasonable but not rules-defined time.

[Qwertystop]

I think (but haven't worked through it to check) that reactionless/inertialess movement could still be measured by speed rather than acceleration. Current location is equal to specific offset from prior location (and frame of reference) per unit time. At least until you bring in relativity, at which point time and distance become difficult or impossible to measure objectively.

Teleporting an infinitesimal distance, repeated at a correspondingly massive frequency, should be indistinguishable from smooth, inertialess movement.

By that system, top speeds would exist and maximum acceleration would not. Sydney tops out at mach 4, airspeed? That's about 1.4 km/s. So the actual top-speed of her fly-ball, then, would be that plus whatever additional distance-per-second is needed to compensate for the movement of the earth (done automatically for user-friendliness, due to the fact that her intent to move in a direction is relative to the earth already).

Ways to potentially test this (differences between it and flight based on application of force):
- She presumably has a maximum load. Is her maximum observed acceleration decreased as she carries more? If movement is force-based, it will be; if teleport-based, it may or may not be (if the teleportation has a maximum mass moved per teleport and no other limits, it won't be; if teleporting more takes more time it will be).
- Can she move faster relative to the earth when moving against its current direction of acceleration than with it? If we consider only the earth's rotation, that would be faster going west than east. Considering the revolution of the earth about the sun makes it more complicated. Probably depends on time of day and year, and probably includes a vertical component which would make testing difficult. This one only works if the level-up system isn't keeping some of her speed inaccessible to her (but accessible to the automatic compensation system).

Any other ideas?

[Obscure Blade]

Well, we don't know what the orbs use for a power source, so we don't know when or if the flight orb will run out of power. If they draw power from an external source she might lose the ability to accelerate if she goes too far from whatever it is, limiting her ultimate velocity. Or if they have a limited internal power supply eventually she'll run out no matter what, unless she finds a way to recharge.

Also, eventually friction against interstellar dust would prevent her from accelerating further once it exceeded the thrust from the flight orb, even if her shield was utterly indestructible, which presumably it isn't.

Also, whatever she or other supers use for flight might in some fashion require interaction with a nearby planet (Some kind of repulsion effect? Grabbing onto Earth's magnetic field?) in which case they might not be capable of unassisted interplanetary travel at all.

[HandofShadows]

It occurs to me that Max and Sydney's powers are similar in a way and at the same time very opposite of each other.

First the similarities. Both get their powers from an outside source (presumed extra terrestrial). Both can choose what powers they are using at a given time. Both have multiple wide ranging powers. Max has fewer powers, but still many more than most have. Sydney has powers all over the place and we don't even know all of them yet.

Differences. Max has all her powers internally, she controls them at will and involved her body being transformed. Sydney's powers are external, she has to grab an Orb to use them and her powers don't change her body at all. Max's powers lend themselves towards fighting and combat. Sydney on the other hand is much more a generalist able to do a wide range of things.

[Traab]

Heh, I like this update. Baby steps are the best steps. Gotta teach sydney some basic survival techniques. Especially since now it would be too easy for her to rely entirely on her mega shield of doom and eventually get taken out because she didnt pay attention.

[halfeye]

eventually get taken out because she didnt pay attention.
Not paying attention is Sydney's entire personality. If they succeed in killing that, will what's left be worth having?

[Traab]

Heh, poor sydney. I dont think she was expecting her leet haxxor skillz to be so overwhelmed by basic strategic thinking. She is keeping her temper surprisingly well though. I tend to rage quit when I hit a string of obnoxious losses like this. Its just no fun if all you do is die.

[Kantaki]

I like Sydney's victory dance. Especially the part where she blows herself up.:smallbiggrin:
But I think she is still better than me. I have managed to die while invulnerable (Yes, I cheated:smalltongue:. But only in single player mode) in Battlefront. Don't ask how I managed that.

[Ibrinar]

Though about cover - no normal cover will protect her against something that will pierce her shield. For her cover is only about visibility and she should probably use it accordingly.

[Kantaki]

Though about cover - no normal cover will protect her against something that will pierce her shield. For her cover is only about visibility and she should probably use it accordingly.

I think she should still know this. Just in case she can't use the shield because she is using two other orbs. That's unlikely, but you never know.
Better safe than sorry.

[Traab]

I think she should still know this. Just in case she can't use the shield because she is using two other orbs. That's unlikely, but you never know.
Better safe than sorry.

As an example, flying and strafing with her ppo. On a related note, I love the idea of using sydney as mobile cover for her less bulletproof teammates. She can make a perfectly clear bit of virtually impenetrable cover allowing them to see whats going on on the other side from safety. They dont even have to be inside the shield which allows them to fire around the edge at the enemy without dropping it. I know they used it a bit that way during the mega brawl but turning it into a well practiced bit of squad strategy would be excellent.

[Kantaki]

New comic

Poor Doc. She doesn't deserve that.:smallbiggrin:
But her way of dealing with Daphne certainly is effective.
I wonder what happened with Varia that she thinks that might have damaged the cuff of the blood pressure thingy. Must be related to her effect on that crazy super power.

The new voting incentive...
Kinda makes me feel sorry for I-don't-know-what-but-I-won't-do-it-ever-again.
I guess she Looks at one of her teammates.

[Traab]

Poor harem, that must suck. Poor halo, her hand must sting right now. Poor Doc, she is this close to a stress aneurysm.

[Kantaki]

Poor harem, that must suck. Poor halo, her hand must sting right now. Poor Doc, she is this close to a stress aneurysm.

Sydney and Daphne are so lucky that the Doc doesn't have Panacea's power set.:smallamused: So many creative ways to make them shut up...:smalleek:

[Traab]

On a more serious note, this comic is an example of what i dislike in webcomics. If you are reading a comic book, having specific comics where nothing happens isnt a big deal. But when its a twice a week updating comic, having one of them be basically wasted really sucks. As an archive trawl I would have enjoyed this comic greatly as one among hundreds. As a stand alone comic? I get this feeling of, "Nothing of worth happened, the story didnt move anywhere really, and about 30 seconds of a continuing conversation took place."

[Leewei]

On a more serious note, this comic is an example of what i dislike in webcomics. If you are reading a comic book, having specific comics where nothing happens isnt a big deal. But when its a twice a week updating comic, having one of them be basically wasted really sucks. As an archive trawl I would have enjoyed this comic greatly as one among hundreds. As a stand alone comic? I get this feeling of, "Nothing of worth happened, the story didnt move anywhere really, and about 30 seconds of a continuing conversation took place."

The art, dialog, and realism are all pretty good. The pacing is also my gripe with this webcomic. Very little changes in the course of a month of real time.

[Traab]

The art, dialog, and realism are all pretty good. The pacing is also my gripe with this webcomic. Very little changes in the course of a month of real time.

I agree with this completely. I love the art dialog and realism. I also like the general path of the story its just hard to keep engaged with twice a week updates where it will sometimes go a few weeks before something happens. Normally its fine. Its enjoyable enough to deal with spaz halo doing something else absurd.

[Forum Explorer]

I agree with this completely. I love the art dialog and realism. I also like the general path of the story its just hard to keep engaged with twice a week updates where it will sometimes go a few weeks before something happens. Normally its fine. Its enjoyable enough to deal with spaz halo doing something else absurd.

To quote one of my favorite webcomics;

"What are you, an out of work doctor? Have some patients!" :smallwink: :smalltongue: I just really wanted to use that pun.

[Kantaki]

To quote one of my favorite webcomics;

"What are you, an out of work doctor? Have some patients!" :smallwink: :smalltongue: I just really wanted to use that pun.

Ouch. That pun is so bad it hurts. You should be ashamed.:smalltongue:

Nevertheless, I agree. Both on Paranatural being awesome and on the patience thing.

I mean it's still better than Erfworld tends to be recently.

[Kantaki]

New comic

:smallbiggrin:Well, that was very Sydney. Her heart is certainly in the right spot:smallbiggrin:

Daphne should really know better than getting Sydney to make her laugh (or to react in some other way) when one of her has to stay calm by now.

And I hope we see the concert. Should be fun to see everyones reaction.

[Traab]

Next time ask for an origin story sydney. Yeah its a cliched topic, but if you dont know it yet it should keep her busy for a couple minutes and not, you know, drive the doctor to insanity. Seriously, at this point im thinking any time sydney needs the doctor she will be brought in hannibel lector style with a ball gag included. Just to keep the doctors blood pressure in the triple digit range. On a related note, at least its nice to see just how WELL sydneys humor meshes with harem. What is this, the 4th or 5th time she has made harem have what amounts to gut wrenching laughter? Oh, and harem totally opened the door to that joke with her shower room comments. You cant cry foul on yo momma jokes if you have been firing them off yourself already, so no crying foul on sexually promiscuous based humor after you spent 20 minutes using it to try to make someone else uncomfortable. (and I know she isnt offended, but still)

[Kantaki]

Next time ask for an origin story sydney. Yeah its a cliched topic, but if you dont know it yet it should keep her busy for a couple minutes and not, you know, drive the doctor to insanity. Seriously, at this point im thinking any time sydney needs the doctor she will be brought in hannibel lector style with a ball gag included. Just to keep the doctors blood pressure in the triple digit range.

And you think a gag would slow Sydney down? Optimist. If anything it would be worse, because the Doc has to witness how she (tries to) finds a way around it.

New comic

Arianna should be happy that Sydney listened to the lecture, not complain about her summary.

And Sydney bought her car with her swear jar. Why am I not surprised?
Even with her unique way of filling it there should be enough left to buy another car. Or at least something pretty expensive.

[HandofShadows]

Ah, poor Sydey. She started something she clearly did NOT intend to start in any way shape or form.:smallbiggrin:

[lord_khaine]

Actually Max should only be glad for such a rumor, as long as it remains at speculation level. Because it should at least partly cut down on the number of people wanting to try and make a pass on her, if they though she were already seeing someone, and that they were competing against Super Hiro.

[Kantaki]

Ah, poor Sydey. She started something she clearly did NOT intend to start in any way shape or form.:smallbiggrin:

Eh, I doubt that was what started the rumor. Telling the annoying kid that Hiro is Maxi’s standard for guy might not been helpful, but it seems unlikely it started the rumor*. Doesn't stop Sydney from feeling guilty of course.

*There are „better” reasons for it. Like the debriefing scene or the fact that they are both powerful Archon Capes.

[The Glyphstone]

We've seen Spiky Blonde Hair Guy before, I know it. Was he in the comic shop?

[Douglas]

We've seen Spiky Blonde Hair Guy before, I know it. Was he in the comic shop?
Yes (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1859) (and see the following two comics for the incident being referenced).

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Crunches it is.

That or gossiping.

[Avilan the Grey]

Star Wars Monoculars! I must has them!

[Lentrax]

What with the grapple gun and the macrobinoculars, I am actually surprised that there is not a crowbar ala Gordon Freeman. I mean there is, but has a weird other end on it and isn't just a plain crowbar.