Grrl Power Thread #2: The Most Common Super Power

[lord_khaine]

They are like a family.
Just with less fighting.

Clearly Dabbler see Max as the nerdy sister, who she just found out had stayed out late on a date :smalltongue:

[Traab]

Ugh, we ALMOST started to move the story forward. Now we get to deal with angry vamp and his refusal to shut up about humans in his precious council. And yes he does have at least a bit of a point. Its still obnoxious.

[Forum Explorer]

Ugh, we ALMOST started to move the story forward. Now we get to deal with angry vamp and his refusal to shut up about humans in his precious council. And yes he does have at least a bit of a point. Its still obnoxious.

Actually, I think that is the story moving forward. I fully expect Max to get booted from the room as a result. Or maybe that future council meetings will be handled by ArcLight or ArcDark instead.

[AvatarVecna]

Ugh, we ALMOST started to move the story forward. Now we get to deal with angry vamp and his refusal to shut up about humans in his precious council. And yes he does have at least a bit of a point. Its still obnoxious.

Panel 1: "Let's move on to why we're all here today."

Me: "BY THE MERCIFUL NINE, FINALLY!!!"

Panel 2: "Wait, that vampire is wearing his collar in a way that makes him look more vampirey! We have to fix that!"

Me *in shock at the authors ability to invent new ways to waste time*

Panel 3: "I think we should continue to debate whether supers in general, and these supers in particular, should be present for counsel meetings."

Me: *flips table*

[John Campbell]

As a general rule, when your characters start complaining about your story, this is your subconscious sending you a message.

[Avilan the Grey]

Ugh, we ALMOST started to move the story forward. Now we get to deal with angry vamp and his refusal to shut up about humans in his precious council. And yes he does have at least a bit of a point. Its still obnoxious.

I don't get this. It's not like it's Girl Genius In Der Kastle.
Seriously, if you just back up 10 pages and read thru them you see the pacing is excellent.

Also... Reminds me of the big fight scene.
Before it: "Where is the action!"
Then "THis takes too long why are they still fighting"

Seriously, webcomics might not be for everyone.

[AvatarVecna]

I don't get this. It's not like it's Girl Genius In Der Kastle.
Seriously, if you just back up 10 pages and read thru them you see the pacing is excellent.

Also... Reminds me of the big fight scene.
Before it: "Where is the action!"
Then "THis takes too long why are they still fighting"

Seriously, webcomics might not be for everyone.

At least in Girl Genius when it slowed to a crawl, there was still some kind of plot- pressure in the plot. I can't recall a single point in GG where the characters had a chance to not be moving the plot forward due to in-comic pressures; yes, it was moving slow, but it was still moving in a deliberate direction, it was just moving slowly. But this? It's moving at a glacial pace from a caught-up reader's perspective, and has been for awhile. Everything up to the big fight scene was well-paced, and when the fight came, it was high intensity at first, and that intensity kept people focused throughout the fight; complaints started rolling in when V was taking a lot of opportunities to monologue about how screwed the protagonists were, and those complaints were valid because that monologue was interrupting the fight rather than integrating into it. In the comics I've read, when the villain starts monologuing in the middle of the fight, he gets punched for it, from Joker to Dr Doom. Monologues when the heroes are captured, sure, but in the middle of a fight? If you're not fighting while you're talking, your oh-so-important speech gets interrupted by the delivery of a knuckle sandwich. And here we have a similar problem: the pacing is glacial, has been glacial for a while, and there isn't really anything in particular that could come along to push the plot forward. In Girl Genius, if they had stopped at some point to have an hour-long discussion of the history of Agatha's family, they would've gotten crushed by the castle, shredded by one of the castle's cats, laid siege to by a number of possible armies.

It's been about 19 months IRL since the fight ended, and every update since then has been a biweekly check of "I wonder if anything actually happened today". I have on occasion been surprised and excited by what actually happens on occasion, and that excitement continues for the 2-5 strips Dave spends elaborating on that interesting thing. Overall, the comic remains interesting enough to continue reading, especially if we get another run of interesting plot and action like we had prior to the big fight, but it's not one I look forward to reading anywhere near as much as I used to. Some comics get away with a glacial comic-to-comic pace by being masterpieces of plot, like Girl Genius (personal opinion, you're welcome to disagree); some get away with it by being more slice-of-life than ongoing-epic-tale (making their plots smaller-scale, but easier to get a sense of pacing of); some get away with it by updating often. GrrlPower is setting up a lot of exposition and backstory and setting info, which is great, but it's been doing that for awhile...and basically only that. It's great knowing more about this world, and it's great taking a nice breather from the big action scene, and it's great getting to know the characters...but ****ing hell. The 200 pages before the big fight were well-paced with good characterization, and good plot exposition, with some interesting action scenes mixed in; it was well-paced from beginning to end, even reading through it as it updated. The big fight was ~80 comics long, and started to seriously drag near the end due to DBZ-esque monologues. The ~180 comics since then have been a long serious of posts helping expand the world, the characters, the background, and so on...but it's a lot, and it's been going on for nearly two years.

[Traab]

I don't get this. It's not like it's Girl Genius In Der Kastle.
Seriously, if you just back up 10 pages and read thru them you see the pacing is excellent.

Also... Reminds me of the big fight scene.
Before it: "Where is the action!"
Then "THis takes too long why are they still fighting"

Seriously, webcomics might not be for everyone.

Its not that I dislike exposition or the pacing as such, its just that it looked as if we were going to move on past the whole world building portion and into what events are taking place. It would be sort of like, during the castle arc, agatha and crew find "the room" Its where everything can be repaired from. HUZAA! Then just as the walk through it they get catapulted back to another hallway and have to make their way back to the room all over again. Its mean to tease us like that! Even if the story is enjoyable (and it is)

[tomandtish]

I don't get this. It's not like it's Girl Genius In Der Kastle.
Seriously, if you just back up 10 pages and read thru them you see the pacing is excellent.

Also... Reminds me of the big fight scene.
Before it: "Where is the action!"
Then "THis takes too long why are they still fighting"

Seriously, webcomics might not be for everyone.

The point some of us are making is that we have gone back and read this section (and others) in one go. It still drags. We're not complaining about the update pace. We're complaining about the number of strips spent on massive world info dumps.

I love webcomics. I have about 150 that I follow. And this is the slowest paced of them all.

And it's actually a developing problem, as his pacing initially wasn't that bad but has gotten worse as time progresses. It seems like he feels he has to show us all the detail he's thought about at one time instead of saving some for later.

My 2 cp.

[Eldan]

Is it just me who's fine with this? I've just reclassified this from a story comic to a gag comic. I quite like both.

[AvatarVecna]

Is it just me who's fine with this? I've just reclassified this from a story comic to a gag comic. I quite like both.

I like both as well. The difference is, most gag-a-day comics don't bother having a long-term plot (some don't even bother having even a vague continuity). There's also story comics that tend to have frequent humor, the two prevalent examples for me being Schlock Mercenary and of course OotS. I stopped reading Schlock regularly years ago because even at a comic a day, it waas draaaaggiiiiing ooooonnnnnn ffffoooorrrrrrrreeeeeevvvvvveeeeeeeerrrrrrr. I still readit in big chunks every once in a while, but even with a high update speed, I graduallylost my interest in waitong a day to see wjat happens next, because the answer was so frequently "nothing uet". Compare to OotS, a comic that has close to the slowest update speed of any active webcomic I've ever read, but I always look forward to an update, because every comic is well-made, evokes powerful emotions (usually humor), and advances either characterization or plot without coming across as an exposition dump.

Reading GrrlPower as a gag-a-day would require there was a joke every time, preferably a fairly funny one (sonce the humor is apparently the main draw of the comic now), and neither of those is always correct.

[lord_khaine]

Actually, I think that is the story moving forward. I fully expect Max to get booted from the room as a result. Or maybe that future council meetings will be handled by ArcLight or ArcDark instead.

Yeah, it seemed like a relevant progression. It shows tension in the council, that not everyone there is to friendly to Supers as the first supernaturals we have meet.
And it could easily be something that further down the line will lead to actual strife and Azilus as a bad guy.

[BannedInSchool]

Is it just me who's fine with this? I've just reclassified this from a story comic to a gag comic. I quite like both.

It's a guided tour through the world of the comic, like a comedic LotR. :smallwink: I'm fine with it just ambling along with gags along the way.

[halfeye]

Compare to OotS, a comic that has close to the slowest update speed of any active webcomic I've ever read, ...

Eh?

You can't read many.

Requiem: Shadowborne Pariah hasn't updated in a couple of years, but I still check it, Exterminatus Now updated a couple of months ago, before that it was about a year, it's maybe dead but the author said it was before the last update, so who knows. Anti-heros has been stopped about as long as RSP, and was consistently slower than OotS for a while before that, Slipstream: Singularity which I think is the same guy as RSP updates pretty slowly, took best part of a year's hiatus, and is barely updating monthly at this point, but I'm pretty sure that it's still updating. There are many more that are slower than OotS.

[AvatarVecna]

Eh?

You can't read many.

Requiem: Shadowborne Pariah hasn't updated in a couple of years, but I still check it, Exterminatus Now updated a couple of months ago, before that it was about a year, it's maybe dead but the author said it was before the last update, so who knows. Anti-heros has been stopped about as long as RSP, and was consistently slower than OotS for a while before that, Slipstream: Singularity which I think is the same guy as RSP updates pretty slowly, took best part of a year's hiatus, and is barely updating monthly at this point, but I'm pretty sure that it's still updating. There are many more that are slower than OotS.

Over the years, I've picked up about 50 or so. The handful that are slower than OotS are comics I basically consider dead, though, with the author occasionally wandering in to commit necromancy.

[Traab]

Eh?

You can't read many.

Requiem: Shadowborne Pariah hasn't updated in a couple of years, but I still check it, Exterminatus Now updated a couple of months ago, before that it was about a year, it's maybe dead but the author said it was before the last update, so who knows. Anti-heros has been stopped about as long as RSP, and was consistently slower than OotS for a while before that, Slipstream: Singularity which I think is the same guy as RSP updates pretty slowly, took best part of a year's hiatus, and is barely updating monthly at this point, but I'm pretty sure that it's still updating. There are many more that are slower than OotS.

I like WTF Comics personally. It was started when Everquest was a new game and is still updating but SO SLOWLY! The main thing that initially drew me in all those years ago was, it involved players on my server. So it was like this cool fanfiction about people I knew. But even though this has been updating for pretty much 17 years now and only has 400 some odd comics, its still a lot of fun. Especially for those of us who played everquest as we get to see all the familiar faces and raid bosses and such.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Requiem: Shadowborne Pariah hasn't updated in a couple of years, but I still check it, Exterminatus Now updated a couple of months ago, before that it was about a year, it's maybe dead but the author said it was before the last update, so who knows. Anti-heros has been stopped about as long as RSP, and was consistently slower than OotS for a while before that, Slipstream: Singularity which I think is the same guy as RSP updates pretty slowly, took best part of a year's hiatus, and is barely updating monthly at this point, but I'm pretty sure that it's still updating. There are many more that are slower than OotS.

When it comes to slow updates, it's hard to beat Gone with the Blastwave. 66 updates over 10 years or so. Honourable mention goes to Lackadaisy Cats.

[Kantaki]

New comic.

The veil has been damaged... :smallsigh:Of course it has. Those things always get damaged somehow.:smallsigh:

:smallbiggrin:Otherwise it wouldn't be fun.:smallbiggrin:

If they are lucky the reason is something relatively simple like a recent large-scale super-battle.

But I expect someone did it on purpose.
Either some faction that doesn't want to hide anymore or some enemy of the council doesn't want them to hide.
Or some trickster entity is playing a „prank”.

[-D-]

If they are lucky the reason is something relatively simple like a recent large-scale super-battle.

But I expect someone did it on purpose.

Too obvious that is it.

It will be someone. Maybe he just wants notoriety.

[Dragonus45]

When it comes to slow updates, it's hard to beat Gone with the Blastwave. 66 updates over 10 years or so. Honourable mention goes to Lackadaisy Cats.

I like the theory that Gone With the Blast wave actually already ended on the april fools comic and no one noticed.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I like the theory that Gone With the Blast wave actually already ended on the april fools comic and no one noticed.

IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIIVE (http://www.blastwave-comic.com/).

[lord_khaine]

My prediction is that the veil were damaged when it tried and failed to cover for the press conference where supers were revealed to the world.

[HandofShadows]

That's very logical, resonable and makes total sense. That means something else probably happened. :smallwink:

[lord_khaine]

Gahh.. yeah alright.. good point..

[Kantaki]

New comic

:smallsigh:Sidney! Don't antagonize the bloodthirsty monsters!:smallsigh:

:smallbiggrin:But her comment was funny.:smallbiggrin:

[AvatarVecna]

Her comment was funny, true, but there's been a lot of funny lines. And now they're not just having casual small talk to bring the new girl up to speed, they're actually discussing multiple major problems that the international supernatural community will be facing...and Sydney is cracking wise. I'm sympathizing with Maxima here, there's a time and place for humor, and Sydney's straying close enough to the wrong side of things that it's taking me out of the story, which is kind of sad given how much time and effort Dave has put into making this several-month-long supernatural exposition dump as un-boring as possible.

[Traab]

There is also the fact that sydney has basically interrupted the actual council meeting just to ask these questions/make these jokes. Ok so before it was fine, it was pre meeting time and they wanted to put their best feet forward, but its time to put on a serious face and deal with council business. Get out your list and start writing down questions sydney, hopefully you will be allowed to ask them after the meeting. This topic seems kind of, you know, IMPORTANT. While her initial question about really not being able to come out from hiding was actually a decent one, its still not the time to be asking this stuff.

[Kantaki]

New comic.

Finally. Now that the continuous interruptions are dealt with, can we maybe- just maybe -talk about the stuff everyone is there to talk about*?
But I would definitely watch that show.:smallbiggrin:

*If there is another interruption I hope it's by a attack of the clowns who damaged the Sigils.

[Traab]

New comic.

Finally. Now that the continuous interruptions are dealt with, can we maybe- just maybe -talk about the stuff everyone is there to talk about*?
But I would definitely watch that show.:smallbiggrin:

*If there is another interruption I hope it's by a attack of the clowns who damaged the Sigils.

Im hoping for something like, she sees them coming in and she starts banging on the doors trying to warn them but they are ignoring the hell out of her now. At that point the only question will be, does she go the smart route and use her com ball to make her image appear inside the council chambers? Or just blast the doors open? And yeah to both, its WAY past time they booted her dumb ass out. Realistically maxima should have done that at the start. Basically, because of her abilities they had to read her in to the existence of the supernatural, but she is still a freaking recruit and had no business being a part of the actual meeting.

As soon as she started interrupting she should have been booted at the very latest. Especially since maxima knows they are facing resistance from the group as it is. The last thing she needs is to have an obnoxious pita constantly causing trouble during the meeting, no matter how randomly amusing she can be. But yes, I would totally watch that. For awhile at least, its so formulaic sounding that I would get bored fast im sure.

[Douglas]

Or just blast the doors open?
I don't think the PPO can tune its power low enough to not be very dangerous trying that. The tentacle might be able to safely break the door, though.

[-D-]

But I would definitely watch that show.:smallbiggrin:
Sounds like a furry version of Supernatural. Pass :smalltongue:

[Leewei]

Some of the council scenes kind of work because they're world-building mixed with humor.

This last one is just Sydney contact-juggling the idiot ball.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I didn't even bother reading any of the panels where it was showing the fictional characters. Regardless of how funny it is, it's in the way of things getting done.

[AvatarVecna]

I didn't even bother reading any of the panels where it was showing the fictional characters. Regardless of how funny it is, it's in the way of things getting done.

Same. It's a joke, but not a very good one, and it pales in comparison to "Sydney finally gets booted from the room for continuously interrupting a meeting of international supernatural importance". I'm just gonna take Max's word that it wasn't as bad a show concept as the wall of text made it out to be and look forward to Thursday's comic.

[Traab]

Place your bets people. The way I see it, the two most likely options for thursdays comic are as follows

1) We see sydney go "Phooey" and wander off exploring, stumbling over something important.

2) We see the rest of the council meeting with maybe a panel or two of sydney sitting on a couch sulking a bit.

[Forum Explorer]

Place your bets people. The way I see it, the two most likely options for thursdays comic are as follows

1) We see sydney go "Phooey" and wander off exploring, stumbling over something important.

2) We see the rest of the council meeting with maybe a panel or two of sydney sitting on a couch sulking a bit.

I'm going to go with 1). I think the meeting will basically boil down to 'we don't know who did it, but we're investigating and Arc-Light will help us'.

[Traab]

I'm going to go with 1). I think the meeting will basically boil down to 'we don't know who did it, but we're investigating and Arc-Light will help us'.

Yeah im thinking the same thing. At worst max will boil it down for sydney, though I have to wonder if she will get in trouble for the way she acted. Its not QUITE barging into a meeting with the president, but its still pretty bad. As for what sydney will be up to, lets break it down further.

1) She bumps into some group of monsters sneaking around trying to find something in vlads castle.
2) She manages to trigger a secret entrance and finds some records that are pretty bad.
3) She bumps into an invading force getting ready to attack everyone there and disrupts their ambush by mistake.

The first two would setup an interesting issue where she isnt sure what the proper response is. Like when the two vamp chicks were feeding on that guy in front of her, she wasnt sure if she was supposed to stop it, ignore it, or cheer it on. Ingsol admits they are monsters, max also is aware of this, so she cant be sure if whatever she stumbles across is valid behavior or a crime, or what. the thirs would kick off another battle and hopefully win sydney some props from the monster council if she does a good job.

[AvatarVecna]

1) We see sydney go "Phooey" and wander off exploring, stumbling over something important.
2) She manages to trigger a secret entrance and finds some records that are pretty bad.

So, we don't know if what she stumbled onto is important (although it probably is, otherwise she wouldn't have stumbled upon it), and at the very least there isn't immediately any records good or bad...but you basically called it.

[Ibrinar]

I start to find Sidneys personality annoying, she seems entirely incapable of gauging the seriousness of a situation.

[Traab]

So, we don't know if what she stumbled onto is important (although it probably is, otherwise she wouldn't have stumbled upon it), and at the very least there isn't immediately any records good or bad...but you basically called it.

Yeah and honestly, she is pissing me off right now. Who the hell does she think she is?! You dont go wandering someones house looking through all their stuff like that! I mean, i get it, protagonists rules and such. Its the same reason why my rpg character can go into everyones house in town, break all their flower pots, check out any chests in the area, chat with the family watching me do all this in their home, and NOT have it end in violence. But its still kind of obnoxious here. I mean, I know people actually do that irl. These are the guys who paw through your medicine cabinet, wander around the house checking out rooms that have their doors shut and generally being nosy, but they suck too. I dont see this going well. Im actually hoping for an actual punishment for sydney. She really needs it driven into her thick skull that her behavior is not always ok.

[Leewei]

1) We see sydney go "Phooey" and wander off exploring, stumbling over something important.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

[DataNinja]

I start to find Sidneys personality annoying, she seems entirely incapable of gauging the seriousness of a situation.

Yeah, especially here. I think I'd find it less annoying had she, say, accidentally bumped into something, and then it did something. I could see her getting distracted by something happening (say, an artefact or something that lights up when touched), and getting lost in that. Here it just seems... I don't know, not entirely malicious, but definitely beyond irresponsible.

[Forum Explorer]

I start to find Sidneys personality annoying, she seems entirely incapable of gauging the seriousness of a situation.


I'm pretty sure Sydney is basically the human version of a Kender at this point. She hits every trait other then kleptomania.

[Kantaki]

Well maybe we are lucky and one of the artfacts replaces her with a doppelganger.
Who acts more responsible.
Obviously everyone notices, but as long as it doesn't act actively malevolent no one does anything about it because a less crazy Sydney is a good thing.

Or, a bit less extreme, whatever happens in that attic scares her enough that she actually reduces her behaviour to a degree.

[DataNinja]

I'm pretty sure Sydney is basically the human version of a Kender at this point. She hits every trait other then kleptomania.

Well, wouldn't kender say they "found" the orbs, too? :smalltongue:

[AvatarVecna]

I'm pretty sure Sydney is basically the human version of a Kender at this point. She hits every trait other then kleptomania.

Might be speaking a bit soon; the author's note beneath the comic reads "Normally you have to defeat a boss to find that much loot". :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: And of course, the last panel is a mischievous smile combined with "let's see if I can trigger my new magic items".

[Forum Explorer]

Well, wouldn't kender say they "found" the orbs, too? :smalltongue:


Might be speaking a bit soon; the author's note beneath the comic reads "Normally you have to defeat a boss to find that much loot". :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: And of course, the last panel is a mischievous smile combined with "let's see if I can trigger my new magic items".

Good point.

So let's see here:

Kleptomania? Check.
No/little sense of propriety? Check
Relatively innocent? Check.
A good person? Check.
Highly Annoying, yet amusing? Check.
Random antics? Check.
ADD? Double Check.
Forgiven for acts that would require punishment if anyone else did them? Check.
Crazy hair? Check.
Short? Check.


Yeah, that's pretty much everything. She's a Kender. :smallbiggrin:

[-D-]

Yeah, that's pretty much everything. She's a Kender. :smallbiggrin:

What's a Kender? Oh! (https://1d4chan.org/images/4/45/Kender_race_description_annotated.png) Oh. Oh....

[John Campbell]

What's a Kender? Oh! (https://1d4chan.org/images/4/45/Kender_race_description_annotated.png) Oh. Oh....

Yeah, kender are intolerable. They're all the worst things D&D newbies do when playing their Thief first character wrapped up into a single race description and made mandatory, but you have to like them because their race description says you do. I have a kill-on-sight policy.

Sydney is rapidly approaching kender-annoying.

Earlier I thought that Sydney's excessive "won't stop saying stupid things while the grown-ups are trying to talk" in this scene was because Dave hadn't realized yet that he doesn't have to put every joke that he thinks of in the comic. I'm now thinking that it was done deliberately to excess specifically to provide a reason for Sydney to be ejected from the meeting, thus setting up this: Sydney loose in the crypt with no supervision. Which I think makes it worse.

[Traab]

Yeah, kender are intolerable. They're all the worst things D&D newbies do when playing their Thief first character wrapped up into a single race description and made mandatory, but you have to like them because their race description says you do. I have a kill-on-sight policy.

Sydney is rapidly approaching kender-annoying.

Earlier I thought that Sydney's excessive "won't stop saying stupid things while the grown-ups are trying to talk" in this scene was because Dave hadn't realized yet that he doesn't have to put every joke that he thinks of in the comic. I'm now thinking that it was done deliberately to excess specifically to provide a reason for Sydney to be ejected from the meeting, thus setting up this: Sydney loose in the crypt with no supervision. Which I think makes it worse.


In her defense I dont think she is going to TAKE anything, she is just going to fiddle with everything she sees because she is in a creepy old secret castle and just found a hidden room. I honestly hope she gets caught red handed and has strips torn from her hide, metaphorically speaking of course. I mean, Sydney, come on! You are well aware of the fact that the link between archon and the supernatural community is tenuous at best, WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING STUFF THAT ISNT YOURS?! Thats a super fast way to get your ass kicked out of the building completely and a diplomatic nightmare as archon has to convince ingsol that she isnt a thief, she is just very very stupid.

[AvatarVecna]

In her defense I dont think she is going to TAKE anything, she is just going to fiddle with everything she sees because she is in a creepy old secret castle and just found a hidden room. I honestly hope she gets caught red handed and has strips torn from her hide, metaphorically speaking of course. I mean, Sydney, come on! You are well aware of the fact that the link between archon and the supernatural community is tenuous at best, WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING STUFF THAT ISNT YOURS?! Thats a super fast way to get your ass kicked out of the building completely and a diplomatic nightmare as archon has to convince ingsol that she isnt a thief, she is just very very stupid.

You'd think with Sydney being as genre savvy as she is that her first instinct upon locating a secret room filled with treasure that was this easy to locate would be to not touch anything, check for traps, and be super-careful, especially now that's fully aware that monsters and magic are real things that exist. If this kinda thing happened in my D&D game (where I interrupted the DM's plot exposition with jokes so many times I got kicked out of the meeting, and started exploring the super-old magical monster castle, and found a secret room filled with treasure that had no guard or password), I'd be so ****ing paranoid about the pile of loot that just got handed to my annoying ass on a silver platter.

[Forum Explorer]

In her defense I dont think she is going to TAKE anything, she is just going to fiddle with everything she sees because she is in a creepy old secret castle and just found a hidden room. I honestly hope she gets caught red handed and has strips torn from her hide, metaphorically speaking of course. I mean, Sydney, come on! You are well aware of the fact that the link between archon and the supernatural community is tenuous at best, WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING STUFF THAT ISNT YOURS?! Thats a super fast way to get your ass kicked out of the building completely and a diplomatic nightmare as archon has to convince ingsol that she isnt a thief, she is just very very stupid.

I'd rather her fiddling have a more direct consequence. Like cursing her, (old granny Sydney?) or teleporting her away, or some other weird effect.


For the record, I actually like Kender. I'm one of the few people who can RP them well, and I've had the luck of playing with DMs strict enough to restrict the race to people who had earned the right to play it.

[AvatarVecna]

Oh hey, she stumbled over what looks to be an invading force.

[Traab]

I would like to claim omnipotence for guessing the general story path so well but be serious, there were only so many directions it was likely to go in.

[HandofShadows]

Humans is Swat gear attacking. This looks like a set up to make it seem that ArcSWAT was attacking. But it seems that they hadn't planned for Max and Co to be there. And Sydney's warning might be enough to give Max an edge against the attackers. Loss of the element of surprise can REALLY screw a plan especialy with someone as fast as Max now she knows someone is attacking.

[AvatarVecna]

Humans is Swat gear attacking. This looks like a set up to make it seem that ArcSWAT was attacking. But it seems that they hadn't planned for Max and Co to be there. And Sydney's warning might be enough to give Max an edge against the attackers. Loss of the element of surprise can REALLY screw a plan especialy with someone as fast as Max now she knows someone is attacking.

Especially given that we've seen how fast she can switch. Me, I'm too caught up in how something is finally actually happening. :smallbiggrin:

[Admiral Squish]

Not sure they're human. The wireframe/skeleton things sydney saw with the orb are odd. She saw clear outlines of all the magical beings in the other room, so we know the SWAT peeps aren't magical beings themselves. I'm thinking they're either wearing magical armor or it's mundane SWAT gear on animated mannequins or something.

[Leewei]

Not sure they're human. The wireframe/skeleton things sydney saw with the orb are odd. She saw clear outlines of all the magical beings in the other room, so we know the SWAT peeps aren't magical beings themselves. I'm thinking they're either wearing magical armor or it's mundane SWAT gear on animated mannequins or something.

It could be an enchantment of some sort, such as a mind control spell.

[Traab]

There is no way 4 normal humans have attacked a full council meeting. Even without knowing maxima is there that would be utterly ludicrous and suicidal without some sort of insanely massive amount of prep and planning. Like for example, that grenade that got launched could be a mixture of atomized silver, cold iron, holy water, and maybe a few other relatively universal anti supernatural ingredients that will burst into a massive cloud of floating particulates. But even that wouldnt effect the aliens, the golems, the magical human types, probably more than a few others. So at best they held off half the room or so, they now have all of a few seconds to accomplish their plan before the other half gets over their surprise and counters them. There has to be more to this. For example, that swat gear looks pretty full body. Its highly likely they are supernatural themselves and are protecting themselves against said grenade full of goodies. Think blade when the vamps wandered outside with sunblock and full body motorcycle gear.

[The Glyphstone]

Like Admiral said;

Look at the panel in the previous page when Sydney scanned them - the skeletal outline of the attacker on the far-left is waaaay too bendy and long to be human, and the others are similar. They've got some sort of SWAT-team illusion over them, or just decked out in armor, but they're almost certainly not normal humans.

[AvatarVecna]

So somebody is aware that not all members of the council are happy to work with humans, or at least not now that they've gone so public with supers. And those people are trying to manipulate events to make the humans look less trustworthy...hmm. The perpetrator may be a member of the council who is working behind the scenes to split away from humanity without looking like a racist, they may be an outside force with unknown motivations, they may be an outside force looking to drive a wedge between the superhero and supernatural communities (presumably in order to make fighting one side easier, since the other won't help or be allowed to help). From the supervillain splash page, I could see a decent argument for the person behind this to be anybody other than Vehemence (for obvious reasons) or mummybeard (because I think he's maybe the *other* cape that's fought Maxima to a standstill, perhaps?).

Also, check out the pic Max keeps of Sydney for her Contact listing. I assume the purple hand is Dabbler, but I can't seem to remember a thing like that happening. I'd be impressed if it was a small thing thrown into an early comic that's sorta a brick joke finally hitting home, but it might just be a generic image of Sydney that's not really connected to anything we've seen in the comic. Anybody recognize the scene that picture is taking place in? I realize there's not a lot to go on...

[Traab]

It was the scene where they first met and dabbler had stolen her glasses and was pushing her head away while she tried to grab them back. Specifically this one (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/655)

[The Glyphstone]

And I just noticed that SWAT Guy #4 doesn't have a helmet like the rest of them - three have the plastic-visor helmets, but the one in back has a sort of gothic plate-armor helm instead.

[Admiral Squish]

And I just noticed that SWAT Guy #4 doesn't have a helmet like the rest of them - three have the plastic-visor helmets, but the one in back has a sort of gothic plate-armor helm instead.

Oh, yeah, I saw that. Obviously the leader.

[Lamech]

Does anyone else think the massive world spanning mind altering spell is kind of on the evil side? Also all these secrets would really suck if they go up against an evil super lawyer in court or something. Probably with a power set of knowing all your secrets and you have to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you evil super lawyer. Although it could get them a nice rogues gallery.

[HandofShadows]

Actually I don't think the spell is mind effecting, more a world wide illusion on the supernatural.

New Page
Who ever it was was going for a massive kill. The grenade was packed with silver and iron buckshot. And the "Swat" are manniquins.

[lord_khaine]

Wow, that was actually a rather nasty payload. Thinking about it, that thing has at least 5 additional grenades like this, and 3 other buddies with their own personal stuff.
Had Max and Sydney not been in place like this, then the body count would have been absolutely brutal. I suspect a significant % of council members ending up dead, and most likely some sort of internal war breaking out afterwards.


Does anyone else think the massive world spanning mind altering spell is kind of on the evil side? Also all these secrets would really suck if they go up against an evil super lawyer in court or something. Probably with a power set of knowing all your secrets and you have to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you evil super lawyer. Although it could get them a nice rogues gallery.

Well perhaps yeah, though again they are also monsters. And the spell does serve as the lesser of two evils. Without it there would be genocide on a massive scale, humanity would got insane if it found out there were monsters living hidden as people. And the number of innocent deaths would be staggering as anyone to unusual would be a suspect.

The evil super lawyer is less of an issue, after all i doubt he can get permission to use his mind altering powers in court.

[Lamech]

The evil super lawyer is less of an issue, after all i doubt he can get permission to use his mind altering powers in court.

You don't get permission. You just do it. Its not like anyone is going to complain they couldn't lie. Would be kind of awkward to object to that too. "Objection, the Defense is making our witnesses tell the truth!" :smalltongue:

[Admiral Squish]

Animated mannequins! Who called it?

[AvatarVecna]

You don't get permission. You just do it. Its not like anyone is going to complain they couldn't lie. Would be kind of awkward to object to that too. "Objection, the Defense is making our witnesses tell the truth!" :smalltongue:

It'd be difficult to prove that the mind-control ability did nothing but force people to tell the truth unless you were looking at his character sheet. It'd be trivially easy for a real lawyer to get such evidence thrown out of court, whether by invoking the 5th amendment (if under US law; I'm not sure what equivalents other countries have if any) or by pointing out that there's no way for the court to know that the mind-control power being used makes people tell the truth, as opposed to saying whatever the mind-controller wants them to say. This kind of stuff is what leads to things like the Master/Stranger paranoia in Worm.

[lord_khaine]

You don't get permission. You just do it. Its not like anyone is going to complain they couldn't lie. Would be kind of awkward to object to that too. "Objection, the Defense is making our witnesses tell the truth!"

Well.. you dont think thats just about the fastest way to get a case dismissed? "objection! the defence is affecting our witness ability to tell the truth!" or "objection, the defence is using meta-powers to affect the witness"

[Traab]

Next maxima order, "Sydney! Get your big shield up over the council!"

I figure that way max can clean house without having to worry about the bad guys sneaking a shot past her. That shield of sydneys is worth its weight in saffron for scenarios exactly like this. Its also the best place for sydney to observe a situation as it develops and figure out counters to anything maxima cant punch through.

[lord_khaine]

Next maxima order, "Sydney! Get your big shield up over the council!"

Would certainly be a wise course of action if Maxima had not been around herself.

But she is so fast, it would be safer for her to take down the last 3 gunmen, than to speed down enough for Sydney to be able to understand what she is saying.
I mean, great gods, she took apart a grenade in the air, and the grenade launcher, before the shooter had a chance to fire another grenade.

Its honestly like putting a few random thugs against a female Superman.

[halfeye]

Is Sidney right about that being a mannequin?

If it is, that's worrying in one way, but I can believe her being delusional about it not being a corpse.

[Calemyr]

Would certainly be a wise course of action if Maxima had not been around herself.

But she is so fast, it would be safer for her to take down the last 3 gunmen, than to speed down enough for Sydney to be able to understand what she is saying.
I mean, great gods, she took apart a grenade in the air, and the grenade launcher, before the shooter had a chance to fire another grenade.

Its honestly like putting a few random thugs against a female Superman.

She took out one of four, and disabled one projectile. Could she take on three with sustained fire? Probably. Could she do it without collateral damage? Possibly. Would she rather not risk the collateral damage in any case? Definitely. Ordering Sydney to bubble either the council (will require more time to position in a time-critical crisis) or just the two of them and the dummies (protecting the council quickly at the expense of exposing Sydney, reducing the bystander count Maxima has to worry about to 1) wouldn't be a bad call.

The real question is who is behind the dummies. They were loaded for bear. (Silver shrapnel RPGs? Ouch.) It could be a staged PR thing like bank, banking on Maxima's ungodly talent to reduce a live-fire exercise into a stage play, but it doesn't sit right. Could be rebels trying to cut off the head of the indolent leadership, with a bonus possibility of starting a human/monster war in the process, but that's too obvious. Besides, attacking a group like this would require a dozen or so rounds of ammo just to account for the "typical" weaknesses. Human hate group? Probably the weakest of the options, though the re-emergence of supers does mean a potential for boomerang bigots. Besides, this is almost certainly manipulative in nature. It's just a question of who is trying to trick who into believing what that isn't clear yet.

[Douglas]

It could be a staged PR thing like bank, banking on Maxima's ungodly talent to reduce a live-fire exercise into a stage play, but it doesn't sit right.
They opened fire too quickly for that. The PR stunt at the bank made extra certain Max was ready before actually pulling any triggers, because surprise can drop her reaction speed below bullet-catching levels. Without Sydney's warning, that first shot would have done real damage because Maxima would still be sitting in her chair registering the fact that the door exploded, and anyone likely to try staging such a PR stunt should know that.

[Forum Explorer]

She took out one of four, and disabled one projectile. Could she take on three with sustained fire? Probably. Could she do it without collateral damage? Possibly. Would she rather not risk the collateral damage in any case? Definitely. Ordering Sydney to bubble either the council (will require more time to position in a time-critical crisis) or just the two of them and the dummies (protecting the council quickly at the expense of exposing Sydney, reducing the bystander count Maxima has to worry about to 1) wouldn't be a bad call.

The real question is who is behind the dummies. They were loaded for bear. (Silver shrapnel RPGs? Ouch.) It could be a staged PR thing like bank, banking on Maxima's ungodly talent to reduce a live-fire exercise into a stage play, but it doesn't sit right. Could be rebels trying to cut off the head of the indolent leadership, with a bonus possibility of starting a human/monster war in the process, but that's too obvious. Besides, attacking a group like this would require a dozen or so rounds of ammo just to account for the "typical" weaknesses. Human hate group? Probably the weakest of the options, though the re-emergence of supers does mean a potential for boomerang bigots. Besides, this is almost certainly manipulative in nature. It's just a question of who is trying to trick who into believing what that isn't clear yet.

Well thinking about it, there was no way that those golems would kill everyone. But they'd do a ton of damage. And I'm guessing it's going to be really hard to trace those golems back to who sent them. So I think the goal was damage and devastation to the council, with the added bonus of making things an emotionally charged situation so it'll be harder to respond rationally to the attack.

[AvatarVecna]

The message this sends is far more important than the effectiveness of the mission: whoever is behind this struck during a huge council meeting regarding a major issue that would basically require attendance. Whoever's behind this would have to know there might be some spanner in the works that screws things up and prevents total victory (or in this case, potentially prevents victory at all), but the message remains clear:

"We know the council meets here, we knew there was a meeting tonight, and if it wasn't for Maxima herself being present and getting an early warning from Halo, you would all be dead. We know where/when you meet, and we are prepared enough to kill most of you with even a single moment of opportunity."

[Traab]

The message this sends is far more important than the effectiveness of the mission: whoever is behind this struck during a huge council meeting regarding a major issue that would basically require attendance. Whoever's behind this would have to know there might be some spanner in the works that screws things up and prevents total victory (or in this case, potentially prevents victory at all), but the message remains clear:

"We know the council meets here, we knew there was a meeting tonight, and if it wasn't for Maxima herself being present and getting an early warning from Halo, you would all be dead. We know where/when you meet, and we are prepared enough to kill most of you with even a single moment of opportunity."

Thats true, but if max stops this with no loss of life on the side of the council they will likely be upset, upgrade security some more, and move on with investigating who the latest threat is and what their goal was. Its hard to feel panicky when the attack was stopped with some minor renovation work being needed to repair the damage done. If these guys are basically disposable puppets, then I think the initial plan was a suicide run. Basically slightly more complicated than a suicide bomber running into a crowd and pressing the trigger. Cause as much mayhem as possible, lose nothing when your troops go down, and spread fear and distrust throughout the council. If this attack fails miserably, then the goal is missed and now there may be clues and a unified council out for blood.

[HandofShadows]

They opened fire too quickly for that. The PR stunt at the bank made extra certain Max was ready before actually pulling any triggers, because surprise can drop her reaction speed below bullet-catching levels.

The go down to not being able to avoid getting vomit on her boots. So the warning was highly critical.

[Forum Explorer]

So looking back at this (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1189)page, who do you think it will be for the arch-villain?

The cleansing guy does seem likely, but I hope not, because then it looks like they will just go in order on that page. I'm hoping it's masked person with a shark sticker. Alternatively the pair of shadowy figures.

[HandofShadows]

I would say the guy in panel 2. He looks like a fanatic and if someone hated the supernatural they would likely refere to killing them as "cleansing".

[Lamech]

It'd be difficult to prove that the mind-control ability did nothing but force people to tell the truth unless you were looking at his character sheet. It'd be trivially easy for a real lawyer to get such evidence thrown out of court, whether by invoking the 5th amendment (if under US law; I'm not sure what equivalents other countries have if any) or by pointing out that there's no way for the court to know that the mind-control power being used makes people tell the truth, as opposed to saying whatever the mind-controller wants them to say. This kind of stuff is what leads to things like the Master/Stranger paranoia in Worm.

It would also be difficult to prove there is a mind control ability at all. The other issue is at least some of their heroes do seem to be heroic. Really, the mind control is probably unneeded. Just knowing everyone's deep dark secrets would be enough to screw stuffz up really bad. Sydney isn't going to lie on the stand. Regardless, Master/Stranger paranoia would be exactly what our evil super lawyer wants. "My client was definitely, totally mind controlled." "That was just a doppelganger." "It was all an elaborate illusion." Etc.

Really, I just think a super lawyer would make a great villain.

Edit: Cleansing dude does seem like he might be behind this, if that really was a whose-who of Boss Villains. Humanity having a super with Maxima's power would give humanity a real edge if someone starts a human-monster war.

[Traab]

It would also be difficult to prove there is a mind control ability at all. The other issue is at least some of their heroes do seem to be heroic. Really, the mind control is probably unneeded. Just knowing everyone's deep dark secrets would be enough to screw stuffz up really bad. Sydney isn't going to lie on the stand. Regardless, Master/Stranger paranoia would be exactly what our evil super lawyer wants. "My client was definitely, totally mind controlled." "That was just a doppelganger." "It was all an elaborate illusion." Etc.

Really, I just think a super lawyer would make a great villain.

Edit: Cleansing dude does seem like he might be behind this, if that really was a whose-who of Boss Villains. Humanity having a super with Maxima's power would give humanity a real edge if someone starts a human-monster war.

Heh, you know what that last paragraph reminded me of? A story that was a justice league crossover with buffy the vampire slayer. Wonder Woman visited their post tv series headquarters and talked with the slayer crowd and when asked how she would handle being attacked by a vampire on say, angelus or spikes level she replied, "I would probably punch them in the head" It took them a second to really comprehend that someone on her level doesnt NEED weapons to obliterate vampires and demons and such the slayer squad faces. A fist to the face would atomize a vampire skull instantly with minimal effort. Thats basically what level maxima is likely at with the vast majority of the supernatural world. "How would I handle it if the vamps/wolves/golems/atlantians/lamias went rogue? Punch them in the head probably"

[DataNinja]

The message this sends is far more important than the effectiveness of the mission: whoever is behind this struck during a huge council meeting regarding a major issue that would basically require attendance. Whoever's behind this would have to know there might be some spanner in the works that screws things up and prevents total victory (or in this case, potentially prevents victory at all), but the message remains clear:

"We know the council meets here, we knew there was a meeting tonight, and if it wasn't for Maxima herself being present and getting an early warning from Halo, you would all be dead. We know where/when you meet, and we are prepared enough to kill most of you with even a single moment of opportunity."

Don't forget "we were able to bypass whatever security and/or precautions you might have." Though, admittedly, it's more likely that secrecy was the biggest defence.

[lord_khaine]

Don't forget "we were able to bypass whatever security and/or precautions you might have." Though, admittedly, it's more likely that secrecy was the biggest defence.

It is possible this were an insider job though, that would certainly also bypass a lot of the security.

[Sean Mirrsen]

So looking back at this (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1189)page, who do you think it will be for the arch-villain?

The cleansing guy does seem likely, but I hope not, because then it looks like they will just go in order on that page. I'm hoping it's masked person with a shark sticker. Alternatively the pair of shadowy figures.

I personally think it's the shadowy figures. The "new player" is obviously ARCHON, and they could very well mean "using" them for political purposes - either to eliminate particular Council members (with others as collateral damage) and gain some power, placing the blame on humans - or just present it as casus belli against the humans, to sever any ongoing Council-ARCHON alliances.

[lord_khaine]

I personally think it's the shadowy figures. The "new player" is obviously ARCHON, and they could very well mean "using" them for political purposes - either to eliminate particular Council members (with others as collateral damage) and gain some power, placing the blame on humans - or just present it as casus belli against the humans, to sever any ongoing Council-ARCHON alliances.

I find this less likely. The Twilight council had known about Archon, or at least its supers, for quite a while. I also think its the cleansing guy thats the most likely subject. It lines up with damaging the weil to make it easier to hunt down monsters, with trying a decapitating strike against the monsters leadership, and with a disagreable vampire there to serve as a red herring.

[HandofShadows]

Well whoever sent these things in made them plenty tough. :smalleek:

[Yuki Akuma]

Or maybe they're just... made of wood?

Wood is pretty hard to cut through with a sword.

[lord_khaine]

Or maybe they're just... made of wood?

Wood is pretty hard to cut through with a sword.

That explanation would be a lot more believeable if it were not Dabbler swinging her magic sword.

[HandofShadows]

Dabbler can't help herself can she?

[Traab]

Dabbler can't help herself can she?

Nnnnnnope! Not any part of that could she resist. lol. In honesty though, makes me wonder, what with the authors note, if we might be seeing a new member of the team here. After all, he likes adventure, and we are likely to see plenty teamed with dabbler.

[Traab]

So new comic and heh, talking is not a free action here, and while the first round was easy, I bet the next round wont be. On the other hand, the shock has worn off the council, so we might even see more aid being given.

That being said, every comic just proves more and more that this was an attack designed and quite capable of, killing a lot of the council, if not all of them. They open with grenade rounds dispensing multiple flavors of aoe death designed to hit as many supernatural weaknesses as possible, they have magic canceling weapons which will mean the magic users get stabbed to death once they close the range, they clearly are able to stand up to succubus and golem level strength, and they can regenerate if defeated. This would have been a really REALLY bad night for the council had arcswat not been there.

[Kantaki]

Those mannequins can repair themselves?:smalleek: Of course they can. It would be too easy otherwise...:smallsigh:

Somehow I doubt burning them to ash will work as well as Maxima hopes. This should be fun.:smallamused:

[halfeye]

Those mannequins can repair themselves?:smalleek: Of course they can. It would be too easy otherwise...:smallsigh:

Somehow I doubt burning them to ash will work as well as Maxima hopes. This should be fun.:smallamused:

Captain Scarlett levels of indestructible would be overpowered, there has to be a finite durability to these, pummelled to death, respawn, repeat is not a long term plan for a comic.

[Discus-Spinner]

Captain Scarlett levels of indestructible would be overpowered, there has to be a finite durability to these, pummelled to death, respawn, repeat is not a long term plan for a comic.
Their fancy-masked leader seems to have slipped out of sight. I suspect that this represents an opportunity for Sydney's genre savvy to prove useful yet again.

[Admiral Squish]

Their fancy-masked leader seems to have slipped out of sight. I suspect that this represents an opportunity for Sydney's genre savvy to prove useful yet again.

No, you can definitely see the helmet floating back there as it reassembles. I suspect that one wasn't so much the 'leader' as it was just a special unit of some sort.

[Traab]

As for destruction needed, I bet that bloody handprint works as some sort of power supply. Destroy that and they stay down.

[Forum Explorer]

I think the reanimation is more so that whoever does put it down will have to destroy any forensic evidence in doing their efforts to stop the things.

[Admiral Squish]

I think the reanimation is more so that whoever does put it down will have to destroy any forensic evidence in doing their efforts to stop the things.

Oooh, now there's a clever angle I hadn't considered.

[Traab]

Its possible thats a handy side effect, but going by todays comic its probably just more making sure they kill everything. Lets see, if the attack went off as planned they would have crippled everything vulnerable to silver wood, holy water and probably some etc in there as well, they are highly damage resistant to melee weapons wielded by relatively strong members, if you DO break them they reassemble, they have magic piercing weapons, and will drain you dry and explode (possibly reassembling from that too, who knows) if you try to cast on them directly. Yeah, without arcswast the entire council is pretty much dead from this. This wasnt a throw away attack or a bluff, this was a very serious attempt to kill everyone.

[Egneil]

Its possible thats a handy side effect, but going by todays comic its probably just more making sure they kill everything. Lets see, if the attack went off as planned they would have crippled everything vulnerable to silver wood, holy water and probably some etc in there as well, they are highly damage resistant to melee weapons wielded by relatively strong members, if you DO break them they reassemble, they have magic piercing weapons, and will drain you dry and explode (possibly reassembling from that too, who knows) if you try to cast on them directly. Yeah, without arcswast the entire council is pretty much dead from this. This wasnt a throw away attack or a bluff, this was a very serious attempt to kill everyone.

Yeah this is looking like a serious attack from someone who doesn't want veiled critters around. Still though I suspect that anyone skilled enough to launch this kind of attack is smart enough to start planting evidence to try and get distrust between Archon and the council.

[Traab]

Yeah this is looking like a serious attack from someone who doesn't want veiled critters around. Still though I suspect that anyone skilled enough to launch this kind of attack is smart enough to start planting evidence to try and get distrust between Archon and the council.

Thats possible, but its probably more of a secondary benefit or a red herring than the primary purpose. These things were sent here to kill the council. If they failed, well then maybe they could shift blame to archon, but they clearly wanted these beings dead.

[Kantaki]

New comic.

Don't mess with a bunny.:smallbiggrin:

If they weren't creepy mannequin-marionette-golem-thingys send to kill the council I would almost feel sorry for the guy Kat just kicked.

I wonder if Sydney will join the taking-creepy-dolls-apart-fun too.

[Traab]

If I were sydney, I would use my violatorb to tie up the dummies. She can lift 15 tons with it, so she could probably restrain these guys fairly easily. Much better than trying to smash them completely and hope they dont regen AGAIN. On the plus side, her shield seems pretty effective here, though they havent tried to stab it with a magic immune spike yet.

In reality however, I think we are going to see a slideshow of various supernaturals doing their supernatural thing for the next couple comics.

[AvatarVecna]

Well looks like whoever sent these guys had a lot of time to plan this and put it together; they keep revealing new interesting twists on the designs.

[Traab]

Well looks like whoever sent these guys had a lot of time to plan this and put it together; they keep revealing new interesting twists on the designs.

Obviously a naruto fanboy. Everyone knows that puppets are just dripping with traps and poison. /nod Now we have our first clue! Which of the big bads is most likely an otaku? :smallbiggrin:

[Forum Explorer]

Obviously a naruto fanboy. Everyone knows that puppets are just dripping with traps and poison. /nod Now we have our first clue! Which of the big bads is most likely an otaku? :smallbiggrin:

Person with the mask and stickers. :smallsmile:

[AvatarVecna]

The villain behind this is clearly an evil version of Sydney from the future. That storyline always works out for the Flash! :smallcool:

[halfeye]

The villain behind this is clearly an evil version of Sydney from the future. That storyline always works out for the Flash! :smallcool:

Eh? I do sort of like the idea, but how did the future flash get evil? and how does that happen and not turn the current flash evil?

[Traab]

Eh? I do sort of like the idea, but how did the future flash get evil? and how does that happen and not turn the current flash evil?

Thats easy, in say, 10 years, something will happen that turns sydney evil. She decides the best way to accomplish her evil goals is to use her by now fully unlocked flight orb to travel back in time, and take up the role of super villain.

[GAAD]

SQUEEEEE!!!

Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger
mushroom mushroom

[Traab]

Thats right, clover is a honey badger, thats why she doesnt give a ^&%$&^%.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

The were-honey badger has to be the greatest were-creature ever conceived.

[-D-]

New comic.

Interesting find.

[Traab]

Our first clue. Also, that girl with the big book chained to her. Is that some sort of magic the gathering nod? The reason I ask is, I read a fanfic recently that mentioned characters from there like planeswalkers and such, and one character introduced in it had made a book that was intelligent. Among other things it could talk to people like riddles diary from harry potter, only not evil. Its the only time I ever read anything about MtG so maybe an expert could confirm or deny.

[Kantaki]

The were-honey badger has to be the greatest were-creature ever conceived.

Were Dire Honey Badger.:smallamused:

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Were Dire Honey Badger.:smallamused:

*passes out of awesome overload*

[Avilan the Grey]

*passes out of awesome overload*

She'll still not give a BLEEP! :smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

She'll still not give a BLEEP! :smallbiggrin:

In fact she has a dire lack of BLEEPS to give! :smalltongue:

[AvatarVecna]

Badgers? Badgers?!! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' BADGERS!!!! :furious::furious::furious::furious:

((10 points if you can name that reference :smallbiggrin:))

[Kantaki]

New comic

:smallbiggrin:I want that book.:smallbiggrin:

[-D-]

New comic

:smallbiggrin:I want that book.:smallbiggrin:
Go, go, gadget, hammerspace :smallbiggrin:

[HandofShadows]

I think Sydney just found someone who is a bigger geek than she is. :smallsmile::smallbiggrin::smallcool:

[Traab]

What I like is how effectively these last few comics have shown that the surprise aspect of the ambush was the important part. Give the council time to think and adapt to the displayed tools and boom, they are useless. But if they had gotten that initial shot off and kept charging the room, it would have been a blood bath as they poison stabbed their way into the confused rabble, drained anyone who tried to cast on them, then exploded with terrific force.

Also, is anyone else actually worried about max? I mean, she had to drop to ultra speed to get the exploding dummy out of there which likely cost her in durability. And collapsed tunnel or not, I dont see that holding up someone who can maintain "makes bullet time seem sluggish" levels of speed along with super strength for more than a few seconds. At worst she should be able to blast through, they can fix the tunnel later. Plus while she just passed it off as "winded" she didnt sound in excellent shape either.

[lord_khaine]

Worried? im kinda hoping she has managed to break a few ribs or simular. Something that would drag her out of the story, and let the rest of the cast get a better chance to shine.
Maxima is a cool character, but Strenght and speed is a brutal combo that be hard to work around while still creating a meaningful story.

I mean, look at how easily the dolls were dismantled?

[Traab]

Worried? im kinda hoping she has managed to break a few ribs or simular. Something that would drag her out of the story, and let the rest of the cast get a better chance to shine.
Maxima is a cool character, but Strenght and speed is a brutal combo that be hard to work around while still creating a meaningful story.

I mean, look at how easily the dolls were dismantled?

That is true, but if she ISNT hurt at all, this will feel awfully contrived as an excuse to get her out of the way so everyone else can have a turn to show off their cool tricks. If she IS hurt it will help establish the danger level here and that maxima cant just handle this in a walk.

That said, im waiting on the self destruct. The dolls have lost their element of surprise, the "boss" doll is wrapped up, at least one other got gutted by the "were dire honey badger who doesnt give a ^#$^%" One blew up well away from the council. Its clear they lost this skirmish, so I wouldnt be surprised if they all blew themselves up in an attempt to avoid leaving any (more) clues behind.

[halfeye]

That is true, but if she ISNT hurt at all, this will feel awfully contrived as an excuse to get her out of the way so everyone else can have a turn to show off their cool tricks. If she IS hurt it will help establish the danger level here and that maxima cant just handle this in a walk.

That said, im waiting on the self destruct. The dolls have lost their element of surprise, the "boss" doll is wrapped up, at least one other got gutted by the "were dire honey badger who doesnt give a ^#$^%" One blew up well away from the council. Its clear they lost this skirmish, so I wouldnt be surprised if they all blew themselves up in an attempt to avoid leaving any (more) clues behind.

Well yeah, but please no nukes. If they had nukes, getting to the building and detonating would be totat victory, there is no point to nukes as backup.

[JeenLeen]

Well yeah, but please no nukes. If they had nukes, getting to the building and detonating would be totat victory, there is no point to nukes as backup.

I highly doubt it would be something that destructive. Main in-universe reason is that the person behind it might want to keep things low-key this close to a city (or in a city's park?), but also the meta/narrative reason of it seems unlikely all these new characters, who it's hinted will show up again in the author's commentary, be killed off so soon. Though I wouldn't be surprised at some medium level of mass damage and injury/death of some to cause the Council to break apart. I don't expect it, but I could see it as possible, and a reasonable actual goal of the puppets' mission.

I guess it's possible they could have nukes as a backup (or some equivalent), if they would prefer low-key but don't mind high-key, but narrative/meta reasons make it seem too unlikely.

[lord_khaine]

I think its very unlikely that the doll maker got access to something like nukes. If that were the case it could have managed things a lot easier by just detornating the dolls from the start.

Personally im kinda suspecting they dont have the juice for a good big explosion themselves. They get the mana to cast self destruct from the draining trap thats installed in them. Thats why the others did not blow up, even though it might have killed a awful lot of people.

[halfeye]

I think its very unlikely that the doll maker got access to something like nukes. If that were the case it could have managed things a lot easier by just detornating the dolls from the start.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make.

[Traab]

I could picture it like this.

/dolls start to react like they will explode
/sydney flies between the dolls and the council and puts up her expanded shield
/big explosion rocks the council chamber but her shield blocked the fire and pressure wave.
/maxima has to dig a lot farther to meet back up with them. :smallbiggrin:
/they start examining the rune stone or whatever it was madame badger tore out of one of the dolls.

I give the save to sydney because aside from the warning she hasnt done that much this battle, aside from off panel tie up the leader guy. Plus it would be a nice way to establish some cred with the supernatural community.

"Ok yeah, she is hyper and annoying, but she DID just save the representatives of like, 3 dozen magical and alien races. She can hang out with us."

[lord_khaine]

Oh gods no please!
Sydney is already close enough into Mary Sue territory (not saying that she are one, just that she got a lot of the traits), without having every single representative of the mystical countil in her debt from saving their ass.. :smallannoyed:

Its not like the mystical council has not already suffered enough blows to their general competence level already, without needing to be saved even further by Archon.

[halfeye]

Oh gods no please!
Sydney is already close enough into Mary Sue territory (not saying that she are one, just that she got a lot of the traits), without having every single representative of the mystical countil in her debt from saving their ass.. :smallannoyed:

Its not like the mystical council has not already suffered enough blows to their general competence level already, without needing to be saved even further by Archon.

Sydney is the main protagonist. The general problem with Mary Sues IMHO is that they are in an ensemble show where everyone should get equal billing, and take over, which upsets the equal billing. A main protagonist is bound to be a bit of a Mary Sue, but as long as it's not too extreme, that's not usually a problem, Superman for instance.

[Forum Explorer]

On the other hand, Sydney has already done enough with her early warning, and disabling a golem. This would've been a massacre without that warning. So I don't really see a reason this can't be wrapped up by the now aware Council, so we don't think they are completely incompetent.

[AvatarVecna]

Agreed. Sydney's done her contribution for the fight. Let the council wrap things up so we can see what's taking Maxima so long, and then move on to whatever villain is behind this plot.

[Traab]

Eh, but this is Grrl Power. Its all about sydney and her super career. This would be like a spiderman comic where he DOESNT save the day, some random schlubs he just met did. Im sure its happened, but in general, its his comic, he saves the day (or doesnt, if they are after drama this week) And lets face it, all she is doing in my suggestion is blocking an explosion caused by puppets that are shown to absorb magic, making any attempt at shielding by the council, a bad idea to try. Thats hardly mary sue if the council finds itself unable to stop killer dolls that have very clearly been specifically designed to trump everything they can do. Its like claiming rock is a mary sue because it saved paper from those awful scissors! The last bit with the council accepting her doesnt even have to happen, as I could just as easily see it turn into. "THIS WAS A SETUP! Notice how easily THEY took care of everything? Clearly this was a false flag attack meant to ingratiate themselves! BLAH BLAH BLAH!"

[AvatarVecna]

Eh, but this is Grrl Power. Its all about sydney and her super career. This would be like a spiderman comic where he DOESNT save the day, some random schlubs he just met did. Im sure its happened, but in general, its his comic, he saves the day (or doesnt, if they are after drama this week) And lets face it, all she is doing in my suggestion is blocking an explosion caused by puppets that are shown to absorb magic, making any attempt at shielding by the council, a bad idea to try. Thats hardly mary sue if the council finds itself unable to stop killer dolls that have very clearly been specifically designed to trump everything they can do. Its like claiming rock is a mary sue because it saved paper from those awful scissors! The last bit with the council accepting her doesnt even have to happen, as I could just as easily see it turn into. "THIS WAS A SETUP! Notice how easily THEY took care of everything? Clearly this was a false flag attack meant to ingratiate themselves! BLAH BLAH BLAH!"

I'm far beyond accusing Sydney of being a Mary Sue (especially since I've never really considered her to be one, my analysis way back when was more showing that she was pretty average but with a good power), I just want the story to move on. The council has shown itself able to deal with the threat (at least to a degree) whether from the were-dire-badger tanking the poison claws, the various ways they're fighting effectively enough without magic, etc. This fight is well-paced so far, and I'd like to see it move things along before it starts to drag, especially since we know there's gotta be another fight coming (since I'm mostly sure the person responsible probably isn't in the room, but sent them from elsewhere inside their tinfoil-covered teleport-proof super-bunker or whatever.

My only consistent complaint with this comic has been the pacing, and I'm just worried it's gonna become a problem here, and what looked to be a quick skirmish intended to take down the entire council before they could react is going to turn into a lengthy brawl akin to the first fight. I don't want it to end super-soon (I still wanna see action), but I'm nervous about it going on too long, and "Sydney being awesome" moments are rarely just moments, they tend to turn into mini-scenes with somebody commenting on the awesome. Spider-Man comics had Spidey doing awesome things all the time, but it kept things moving while he was quipping and dodging and didn't slow down to call out to the audience how awesome Spidey was when he did that awesome thing. If she saves the council and the fight moves on without pausing to mention it, that's fine, whatever, even if it's discussed afterwards.

EDIT:

TL;DR Sydney looking awesome and being heroic is not a problem; people commenting on her heroism slows down the story in a part where keeping the pacing tight and action-packed is crucial.

[AvatarVecna]

AN made me chuckle, not gonna lie. :smallbiggrin:

[Avilan the Grey]

New Comic. She DOES.

[Traab]

See, im still of the opinion that if the comic needs an excuse for maxima to not take part in order for everyone else to be able to fight there is a problem. This was a tough but doable fight for everyone else, but max literally just noped the whole thing with a single move. In the grand dinner battle royal I could buy the excuse of "she needs to be on overwatch to direct traffic" because yeah, lots of stuff going on, she needs to be out of combat to keep track of it all. But here? It feels too contrived that she had to drag an exploding doll out of the room then just happened to get trapped by a collapsed tunnel that kept her busy till now. I just dont want it to be a trend is all im really getting at.

[halfeye]

See, im still of the opinion that if the comic needs an excuse for maxima to not take part in order for everyone else to be able to fight there is a problem. This was a tough but doable fight for everyone else, but max literally just noped the whole thing with a single move. In the grand dinner battle royal I could buy the excuse of "she needs to be on overwatch to direct traffic" because yeah, lots of stuff going on, she needs to be out of combat to keep track of it all. But here? It feels too contrived that she had to drag an exploding doll out of the room then just happened to get trapped by a collapsed tunnel that kept her busy till now. I just dont want it to be a trend is all im really getting at.
It'll be fine, it'll turn out it was Max behind it all along, then she turns on Sidney and the rest and that's almost a fair match.

[Ibrinar]

Like firefighter arsonist who lay fires so that they can come and fight them. Makes sense.

But yeah having a character that significantly outclasses the others is a problem if you want the others to fight, you basically need something to keep the character occupied. Another task at another place, something that temporarily stuns or imprisons them, multiple opponents so that one enemy/group can occupy the op one so the rest can fight the rest. Really op enemies the op enemy can't defeat alone but the weaker ones can still contribute to in some ways. Or enemies that the op characters abilities are mostly useless against. Personally I suspect it wasn't a good decision to make her that strong but maybe the author has a good plan, who knows.

[Avilan the Grey]

See, im still of the opinion that if the comic needs an excuse for maxima to not take part in order for everyone else to be able to fight there is a problem.

Also know as The Superman Problem.

[Forum Explorer]

See, im still of the opinion that if the comic needs an excuse for maxima to not take part in order for everyone else to be able to fight there is a problem. This was a tough but doable fight for everyone else, but max literally just noped the whole thing with a single move. In the grand dinner battle royal I could buy the excuse of "she needs to be on overwatch to direct traffic" because yeah, lots of stuff going on, she needs to be out of combat to keep track of it all. But here? It feels too contrived that she had to drag an exploding doll out of the room then just happened to get trapped by a collapsed tunnel that kept her busy till now. I just dont want it to be a trend is all im really getting at.

I agree with your statement in a general sense, but not about this scenario. The bomb doll was reasonable, it causing structural damage is reasonable, and it taking Maxima slightly more then a minute to get back is also reasonable. Action in comics looks like it takes a lot of time, but I don't see why it would take more then 2 minutes to get done in real time. Maybe slightly longer.

Basically, they didn't actually 'fight', it was more of a character introduction with violence.

But yeah, future fights are going to have to take Maxima into account in order to deal with her. And she will have to be dealt with or else she'll just crush everything.

[Celestia]

I really love the setting of this comic, but the pacing is pretty atrocious. In the past six years and almost 500 pages, very little has happened, and most of the advancement was at the beginning. It's like that massive super battle was so huge that it broke the fourth wall and smashed in Plot's kneecaps, and now the comic is limping along at a snail's pace. And the rate with which new characters is getting introduced is absurd. A comic with this little progression doesn't need five dozen characters. I still enjoy reading it, though. I just wish the author would pull the thing out of the molasses swamp it's sunk into.

[Traab]

Also know as The Superman Problem.

(Justice League) "Oh no! /random supervillain/ is attacking chicago! Of all the times for superman to be out evacuating a distant planet due to a supernova! So and so will have to handle it."

One of the other randomish problems with a super like maxima (or superman) is how often the problems could all be solved more or less the same way. We see it in this battle where she disassembles a grenade in mid launch and transport a doll in mid explosion due to raw speed. There are so few powers out there, aside from also being a super speedster, that counters the ability to not only move really fast, but be able to function just as well at those speeds. And yet you almost never see superman do that in his fights. You think metallo can move at light speed? He cant. He should have a fist shaped dent in his chest cavity keeping the door to his power source warped shut before it opens even a fraction of an inch with superman out of range of whatever is leaking around the edges before he can feel its effects.

Metallo "Im going to kill you this ti..." /blinks "Why am I back in my jail cell? AND WHERE ARE MY ARMS AND LEGS?!" (Yes im exaggerating a bit for effect)

Ok, more realistic this time

Metallo "Im going to kill you this ti.." /blinks /looks at the fist through his chest cavity "The heck just happened?"

Superman: "Kinda hard to kill me when your power source is about to splash down 5 miles out to sea behind you metallo."

Thats how most of his fights should go and maxima isnt much different. She speed blitzed from the start and had the first round victory over the entire crew of murder puppets before dabbler could finish getting undressed in her armor. Had the mage dude not tried to butt in she would have reduced them all to ash 5 seconds after they reformed. I honestly think Dave made her a bit TOO powerful, especially if she is meant to be another soldier on the front lines. I could see her being the captain planet of archon. Call her in from headquarters when things get too tough for whatever reason, but if she is already there, it just feels pointless for anyone else to be. Vehemence being the only exception so far.

[Celestia]

Honestly, Maxima is just insane, and not necessarily because of her power. From what we've seen, she is significantly weaker than Superman. She's probably not even city-buster level. The problem is that the capabilities of her powers are logically extrapolated. Superman has enough power to break physics a thousand times before breakfast, but all he ever seems to do is punch things really hard. Superman would have probably caught the grenade and thrown it through the ceiling to detonate in the sky or something equally less effective. The author tries his hardest to explore everything someone of Max's power should be able to do, giving her more versatility, and that's what the real problem is. It's like comparing a Hulking Hurler with Festering Anger to a wizard. Yeah, the first one can dish out stupid damage, but the second one is still more powerful.

[Traab]

Her power level makes her mid ranker at best in the dc universe. She is above street crime level, none of spidermans general roster could do anything against her, but the planetary threats? Not so much. Im pretty sure darkseid or doomsday would casually obliterate her. But in the grrl power universe, she is right there at the top of the food chain so far as we know. And the GAP between her and almost everyone else is what really draws the superman parallels. We might as well have superman team up with the heroes for hire and fight their general list of bad guys. Its just silly. While technically dabbler fought her to a draw, 5 bucks says that if a real deathmatch started up, max would be holding dabblers ribcage 10 feet from the rest of her body before the word "FIGHT!!!" finished echoing.

But yeah, by putting her with the rest of archon, you are putting a navy seal on a patrolmans beat in podunk ohio. Or putting podunk ohios police force in the middle of a warzone in deathkill valley iraq.

[Celestia]

Yeah that's a real problem. We've been told that Dabbler is Max level power, but what we've seen is her being largely incompetent or overshadowed. Sydney could theoretically be up there, but she's so inexperienced and her orbs are so unknown that she can't possibly use them to their full extent. Everyone else is at a pretty low or low-moderate level.

[lord_khaine]

Superman would have probably caught the grenade and thrown it through the ceiling to detonate in the sky or something equally less effective.

His prefered way of dealing with such things is usually to contain the explosion in his hands. Its surprising how many things you can fit into a rough tennisball shape if your last name is Kent :smalltongue:

Else, yeah agree completely with the general sentiment here, and also think i have voiced them myself a few times. Maxima is just a little to powerful in general. She might be a bit beneath Supermans average incarnation, but at the same time she is far more ruthless in using her power. Unlike Superman she prefers to speed blits things whenever possible.

And while it did make for a nicely epic momement of "oh ****!" when Vehemence revealed just how his power worked, then in the long run i think she is stiffling the comic in what sort of stories can be told. This time the distraction pulling her away worked fine, but its going to be hard to continue doing that in the long run.

I also think her suposed current "weakness" is not enough to keep her managable. That she can only keep one atribute at near superman level of power at once is not really a weakness when the only one that has a real chance of taking advance of it were Vehemence, who had the endurance to tank her blitz assult.

[Traab]

Even then he only had the endurance because she explicitly WASNT going for the kill for far too long. Its ironic really. Had this been a military operation, vehemence would have died MUCH earlier. But acting as a cop, nonlethal is the go to method for conflict resolution whenever possible, and she didnt realize that was a bad idea with him till it was too late. Should he break out of arc-aegis at some point he wont fare well in a rematch because now they know the secret is to take him down hard early on with overwhelming force so he doesnt have the chance to power up beyond them.

[Avilan the Grey]

Honestly, Maxima is just insane, and not necessarily because of her power. From what we've seen, she is significantly weaker than Superman. She's probably not even city-buster level. The problem is that the capabilities of her powers are logically extrapolated. Superman has enough power to break physics a thousand times before breakfast, but all he ever seems to do is punch things really hard. Superman would have probably caught the grenade and thrown it through the ceiling to detonate in the sky or something equally less effective. The author tries his hardest to explore everything someone of Max's power should be able to do, giving her more versatility, and that's what the real problem is. It's like comparing a Hulking Hurler with Festering Anger to a wizard. Yeah, the first one can dish out stupid damage, but the second one is still more powerful.

Superman's power creep over the years is quite amazing. Basically he went from someone say about Spider-man's power level to a being that not only can survive in space without aid (so apparently he doesn't need oxygen to live) but have done feats (that even I know of, and I don't read Superman comics) like interrupting a war between two space empires by hollowing out a moon with his bare hands and scooping up all the spaceships in it, or to bench-press the weight of the Earth as workout and doing so non stop for 24 hours. And not breaking a sweat.

And then writers forget about all that when it is convenient for one reason or another. WW and Supes tend to be, in other character's minds, roughly equal. But (to be blunt here, since they are dating now) Supes would just as easily destroy WW's body as Loise's during sex because their power level is that far apart.

Now Maxima seems to be, on a Strength level, on par with Wonder Woman. The thing is with her additional powers she definitely is WW's superior. She is far more invulnerable, she is MUCH faster, she can shoot nuclear blasts (actual mushroom cloud and everything) from her fingers... I think she could take on any threat WW is struggling with, and defeat it with quite ease.

[AvatarVecna]

Superman's power creep over the years is quite amazing. Basically he went from someone say about Spider-man's power level to a being that not only can survive in space without aid (so apparently he doesn't need oxygen to live) but have done feats (that even I know of, and I don't read Superman comics) like interrupting a war between two space empires by hollowing out a moon with his bare hands and scooping up all the spaceships in it, or to bench-press the weight of the Earth as workout and doing so non stop for 24 hours. And not breaking a sweat.

Superman can fly around the Earth so fast, gravity accelerates him past the speed of light and he goes backwards in time.

Superman can erase memories with a kiss.

Superman once punched the universe he was in so hard that that particular universe became noncanonical.

EDIT: But Batman could kick his ass!

[Douglas]

As some writer I saw put it once, there is never a question of whether Superman can punch hard enough to solve the plot, only of when he will be allowed by the plot to throw that punch.

[halfeye]

Superman's power creep over the years is quite amazing. Basically he went from someone say about Spider-man's power level

I don't remember him ever being that weak, in the 1960s he was already strong.

[Celestia]

I don't remember him ever being that weak, in the 1960s he was already strong.
In the 30's, he was so weak that he couldn't even fly. "Stronger than a locomotive, faster than a speeding bullet, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound." That was the extent of his power. I don't think he even had any enhanced durabulity.

[Avilan the Grey]

In the 30's, he was so weak that he couldn't even fly. "Stronger than a locomotive, faster than a speeding bullet, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound." That was the extent of his power. I don't think he even had any enhanced durabulity.

Exactly. The feat he pulls off in that famous cover art was basically the upper level of his abilities. He could lift cars, he could jump higher than a three story building and was bullet proof. And I am not sure about the bullet proof part.

[AvatarVecna]

In the 30's, he was so weak that he couldn't even fly. "Stronger than a locomotive, faster than a speeding bullet, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound." That was the extent of his power. I don't think he even had any enhanced durabulity.

I think he did, actually, part of the actually quote of "more powerful than a locomotive". It's worth noting that, while he could catch bullets, and his skin was needle-proof, he could not tank tank shots even a bit. Over the years, he got just a little bit tougher. :smalltongue:

[Avilan the Grey]

Over the years, he got just a little bit tougher. :smalltongue:

Just a tad.

[Kantaki]

Just a tad.

Barely worth the mention.

[-D-]

Barely worth the mention.
Back in my day, you could kill Superman with a piece of stale toast. You had to work really hard, for your Supermanz.

[AvatarVecna]

Back in my day, you could kill Superman with a piece of stale toast. You had to work really hard, for your Supermanz.

Superman's been powerleveling his Toughness for 80 years, and he's finally at the point where it takes a nice solid rock to take him out. :smalltongue:

[HandofShadows]

Actually current incarnations of Superman are less powerful than he was a few decades ago. Still extremely powerful but not to the point of utter insanity like he had been.

[lord_khaine]

Even then he only had the endurance because she explicitly WASNT going for the kill for far too long. Its ironic really. Had this been a military operation, vehemence would have died MUCH earlier. But acting as a cop, nonlethal is the go to method for conflict resolution whenever possible, and she didnt realize that was a bad idea with him till it was too late. Should he break out of arc-aegis at some point he wont fare well in a rematch because now they know the secret is to take him down hard early on with overwhelming force so he doesnt have the chance to power up beyond them.

Its not even like thats a fool proof method though. I dont think you can leave it to the normal members of Archon to try and blitz Vehemence, its just to risky when we dont know if he has a base level of toughness, and how much he can endure, with his regeneration it might end up making him stronger.

And sending Maxima after him is not without risk either at this point, it did seem like she had to draw upon her other powers to do her hand of omfg-instant-ashy-doom. That leaves her vulnerable for someone whose reactions might be to fast for her to speed blitz. Something thats especially risky against someone whose mistaken idea of her weakness actually is rather risky to her all the same.

Safest way to deal with things is IMO to keep him away from people, and then send Dabbler in a disguise after him at night.
Jobs done and he might end up signing up for getting arrested next time if she dont wipe his mind :smalltongue:

[John Campbell]

I am fascinated by this notion Dave has that Sydney asking about name etymology is an amazing author-given talent for moving the conversation in the right direction.

[-D-]

The scene was so.... Raven.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, honestly waste of an entire comic imo. The only worthwhile bit were the last panel, that told us of the attack on the pillars.

Lots of evidence towards some sort of internal traitor. Since you should assume those pillars are fairly well hidden and guarded.

[Kantaki]

Lots of evidence towards some sort of internal traitor. Since you should assume those pillars are fairly well hidden and guarded.

Maybe a certain dark-winged sellsword?

Nah, too obvious*. I expect hope it will be someone else.
Someone who appears to be a supporter of the Council**.
Not some bird-lady with glowing bones that just appeared with bad news.
On the other hand...

*Same goes for Gunnhildr and the others who were... hesitating to get involved in the battle.
**Assuming it is someone we know already.

[Traab]

Its not even like thats a fool proof method though. I dont think you can leave it to the normal members of Archon to try and blitz Vehemence, its just to risky when we dont know if he has a base level of toughness, and how much he can endure, with his regeneration it might end up making him stronger.

And sending Maxima after him is not without risk either at this point, it did seem like she had to draw upon her other powers to do her hand of omfg-instant-ashy-doom. That leaves her vulnerable for someone whose reactions might be to fast for her to speed blitz. Something thats especially risky against someone whose mistaken idea of her weakness actually is rather risky to her all the same.

Safest way to deal with things is IMO to keep him away from people, and then send Dabbler in a disguise after him at night.
Jobs done and he might end up signing up for getting arrested next time if she dont wipe his mind :smalltongue:


Keep in mind she ashed his arm AFTER a 30+ super battle royal AND after fighting every other member of archon AND after getting into a punching match with a maxima set to nonlethal. Unless he manages to find the nearest soccer riot before maxima tracks him down, he is going to be easily crushed. It took him a LOT of power up time to reach a level where he could match her. At his starting point it wouldnt surprise me if half the members of archon could take him down now that they know his secret.

[lord_khaine]

Keep in mind she ashed his arm AFTER a 30+ super battle royal AND after fighting every other member of archon AND after getting into a punching match with a maxima set to nonlethal. Unless he manages to find the nearest soccer riot before maxima tracks him down, he is going to be easily crushed. It took him a LOT of power up time to reach a level where he could match her. At his starting point it wouldnt surprise me if half the members of archon could take him down now that they know his secret.

Yeah, she did ash his arm after he had entered his powered mode, thats why i am pretty certain that he were not reaching a point thats much stronger past that point.
Its also why i think she need to draw upon her other attribues to do her hand of doom attack though. He were still at least slightly toying with her at that point, since he had not revealed his regeneration power. Afterwards he could both regrow his arm and grab Max with it before she managed to ash something else. Thats why i dont think she were moving very fast then.

And Max is far, far above the rest of archon in sheer offensive potential. If the rest of Archon is to take him down then i dont think its going to be through blitzing. But a passive capture/trap might be an option. Something like sticky air or a lot of glue, that wont provide him with more power.

[The Glyphstone]

He can incite violence in other people, though. So you basically have to blitz him before he can do anything, or he'll compel you to start powering him up whether you want to or not.

[Traab]

Yeah, she did ash his arm after he had entered his powered mode, thats why i am pretty certain that he were not reaching a point thats much stronger past that point.
Its also why i think she need to draw upon her other attribues to do her hand of doom attack though. He were still at least slightly toying with her at that point, since he had not revealed his regeneration power. Afterwards he could both regrow his arm and grab Max with it before she managed to ash something else. Thats why i dont think she were moving very fast then.

And Max is far, far above the rest of archon in sheer offensive potential. If the rest of Archon is to take him down then i dont think its going to be through blitzing. But a passive capture/trap might be an option. Something like sticky air or a lot of glue, that wont provide him with more power.

I bet a depowered vehemence could get tossed into space by hiro. Yeah he isnt as strong as maxima, but this vehemence also didnt get a half hour long all you can eat buffet to power himself up with. And yeah vehemence was sandbagging, but so was maxima. Like she said, she was holding back her full power to not kill him but he was proving himself to be tough enough to require a kill shot. As for reallocating points, maybe, but normally dave shows us her mentally adjusting her distribution like when she tanked the punch to the nose, or when he had her in the one handed choke hold and started shocking her.

[lord_khaine]

The question is how depowered can he get though? It seems as though he can store energy for at least a period of time. One could assume that he has a energy tank of some sort, where a surplus then eventually spills out of it.
And yeah flying him into space is the sort of passive takedown that might work, though i think its risky because Hiro is a slower flyer, and Vehemence would have the entire trip to power up by beating on Hiro. Would also i think drop him into the ocean myself, sounds less risky since Vehemence might be able to hold his breath longer than Hiro, and handle vacum better.

Its also been my impression that Dave only shows how Max allocate her powers when its central to the plot, like when he needed to explain how and why Vehemence's lightning grip were pinning Max down, despite him not having reached a point where he were completely overpowering her.

[Traab]

Yeah we dont really know his baseline, all we know is any time he exerts himself, it costs him some absorbed power, but that really is an interesting thought, if he goes full normal for him but has been holding onto some extra power, then he might be able to do a quick power up to at least effect an escape. Did dave ever cover the whole, "Cant he just punch the wall till he is powerful enough to shatter it?" line of thought? Like, does he need an ever escalating level of violence to continue getting stronger, or could he watch a couple of grade schoolers get into slap fights for an hour then bench press a building?

He pretty explicitly states that when he attacks someone it makes him stronger, so couldnt he theoretically keep hitting the ground as hard as he can until he is strong enough to punch the planet in half?

[halfeye]

Yeah we dont really know his baseline, all we know is any time he exerts himself, it costs him some absorbed power, but that really is an interesting thought, if he goes full normal for him but has been holding onto some extra power, then he might be able to do a quick power up to at least effect an escape. Did dave ever cover the whole, "Cant he just punch the wall till he is powerful enough to shatter it?" line of thought? Like, does he need an ever escalating level of violence to continue getting stronger, or could he watch a couple of grade schoolers get into slap fights for an hour then bench press a building?

He pretty explicitly states that when he attacks someone it makes him stronger, so couldnt he theoretically keep hitting the ground as hard as he can until he is strong enough to punch the planet in half?

I would guess that hitting inanimate objects wouldn't count as violence, so he'd need a victim.

[Avilan the Grey]

Yeah, honestly waste of an entire comic imo. The only worthwhile bit were the last panel, that told us of the attack on the pillars.

Lots of evidence towards some sort of internal traitor. Since you should assume those pillars are fairly well hidden and guarded.

You know, if you can't handle the tempo, do one of two things:

1. Wait a while and then binge-read 10 pages or so and you'll notice the pacing is fine OR
2. Stop reading the comic. It might just not be for you.

[lord_khaine]

You know, if you can't handle the tempo, do one of two things:

1. Wait a while and then binge-read 10 pages or so and you'll notice the pacing is fine OR
2. Stop reading the comic. It might just not be for you.

Wow, congreatulations. I think a reply regarding the comics tempo/pacing, is about as useless a reply as i could possibly get to a comment about the quality of a specific update. I mean it would take work to be more off the mark than that ? :smallconfused:


Yeah we dont really know his baseline, all we know is any time he exerts himself, it costs him some absorbed power, but that really is an interesting thought, if he goes full normal for him but has been holding onto some extra power, then he might be able to do a quick power up to at least effect an escape. Did dave ever cover the whole, "Cant he just punch the wall till he is powerful enough to shatter it?" line of thought? Like, does he need an ever escalating level of violence to continue getting stronger, or could he watch a couple of grade schoolers get into slap fights for an hour then bench press a building?

Some sort of mechanic must be preventing him from doing that, or else he did not need to organise the entire super brawl?

[Hiro Protagonest]

I am fascinated by this notion Dave has that Sydney asking about name etymology is an amazing author-given talent for moving the conversation in the right direction.

Yeah, I thought "we could easily cut this page down to half." Sydney asks what her name means, she replies "it means battle maiden" or something else that doesn't waste my time explaining what they mean separately and that it doesn't even mean that as a single word.

[Traab]

Wow, congreatulations. I think a reply regarding the comics tempo/pacing, is about as useless a reply as i could possibly get to a comment about the quality of a specific update. I mean it would take work to be more off the mark than that ? :smallconfused:



Some sort of mechanic must be preventing him from doing that, or else he did not need to organise the entire super brawl?

I dunno, if there is its kinda arbitrary. I mean, punching the ground as hard as he can is a violent act that would clearly hurt, so that seems to fill the requirements. If it was explicitly violence done around or against him and NOT violence he personally does, then maybe that would work as a loophole, but he explicitly states that he gets stronger if they attack him, or he attacks them. Any violence that takes place in his vicinity makes hims tronger, and punching the ground hard enough to break it sounds pretty violent. Maybe it only works if its violence against someone in the area and not something?

As for the super brawl, he seems to enjoy seeing what sort of boost he gets from various forms of violence, at least if his offhand comment about taking in a soccer riot means anything. He could go to any MMA event and power up if he wanted, I just get the feeling he was curious to see HOW strong the super brawl would make him.

[Erik the Green]

Well, if Dabbler is/was right about vehemic energy being a very rare parallel to what ever succubi tap with sex (not necessarily by being personally "involved," see also #1705), I would say it would be reasonable to infer that it must come from actions by living creatures against other living creatures, with violent intent.
I can see the following cases:
1) Vehemence attacks someone who doesn't or can't fight back-maybe he only gets 50% of the hypothetical aggro power, and then his punching dummy is dead or unconscious.
2) Vehemence attacks someone who does fight back-he gets 100% and it could feed his reservoirs for some time if his opponent is durable and determined. He may burn a lot of this input against someone as powerful as Maxima, as I think was strongly hinted in the great outdoor fight.
3) Other people are fighting each other seriously in his vicinity-maybe he only gets 10% from each set of sapients going "rowr" at each other, but quantity can be a pretty good quality, too.
I think this take is nicely consistent with Vehemence's whole approach to fighting ArcSwat, and to going up against the Goddess of Ash (eg. get seriously powered up first.
E

[Discus-Spinner]

Yeah, the succubus comparison makes it pretty clear that Vehemence draws power from the emotions of violence (or perhaps the mystic symbolism), not just from things crashing into each other - else he could power up by hanging out in an auto wrecking yard. So punching a wall for the sake of punching a wall wouldn't help him much.

Now, if he found someone who was really, really angry at that damned wall for getting in their way, and punching it out of frustration, I'd guess he might get something from it.

(Difference between "emotions" and "mystic symbolism"; could he power up from a scrapyard wars contest?)

[Admiral Squish]

I don't really understand complaints about the comic's pacing, honestly.
Ultimately, the story could be summed up in sentences. "Quirky twenty-something girl has superpowers, joins super-team, has awesome adventures." To my mind, the journey is far more important than getting to the 'end'. As long as each comic is entertaining, I don't particularly care how long it takes him to tell the story.

[Yuki Akuma]

(Difference between "emotions" and "mystic symbolism"; could he power up from a scrapyard wars contest?)

This is the most interesting question into the nature of Kevin's powers I have ever read. I want to know the answer to this now.

[Traab]

Thats true, I forgot the comparison to dabbler. The reason he cant punch walls to power up is the same as dabbler not being able to visit sally palm and her five friends to do the same. They need to absorb the energy from someone else. The violence of someone else attacking them, or the violence involved with attacking someone else. Of course that still brings to mind the question of how MUCH violence it takes and if it needs to escalate to continue to grow. Dabbler mentioned how if it had been a 30 person orgy she could crush arcswat with ease, but would she be able to do the same if say, she made slow passionate love to one person after another for a couple days?

One final point, if his power works like hers, then that means no, he cant really "save" energy long term, because he uses it just from day to day living, like food and water. Makes me wonder if there will be long term issues for him being locked up in potlandia.

[Yuki Akuma]

One final point, if his power works like hers, then that means no, he cant really "save" energy long term, because he uses it just from day to day living, like food and water. Makes me wonder if there will be long term issues for him being locked up in potlandia.

I don't think he requires vehemic energy to live. He's not a demon, he's a super human with a power fueled by vehemic energy.

Also according to the author*, succubi don't live off of tantric energy until they go through puberty, so one assumes they have a regular digestive tract anyway.

*In a private patreon message so I can't actually link to this

[HandofShadows]

You can still need to eat food and have to have tantric energy to live off of. I think we have seen Dabbler eat as well. Of course she is part alien.

[The Glyphstone]

I figured she ate food because she liked it, not because she needed it to live.

[Traab]

Boom, (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1705) Heh, she covers the need for food versus tantric energy here. Says that while if she gets enough nookie she can go a long time without eating, its still best to have both. She NEEDS that tantric energy though, its nonnegotiable. Her body will flip out and drive her and anyone nearby into a horny frenzy if her reserves get low enough, so that could get bad for vehemence if he is far enough away from anyone that he CANT trigger a violent response and he actually does need vehemic energy to live.

[Yuki Akuma]

Man Dabbler is such a weird character. She goes from "I'd hit that" to "omigosh adorable must pet" like flipping a switch.

[Forum Explorer]

Boom, (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1705) Heh, she covers the need for food versus tantric energy here. Says that while if she gets enough nookie she can go a long time without eating, its still best to have both. She NEEDS that tantric energy though, its nonnegotiable. Her body will flip out and drive her and anyone nearby into a horny frenzy if her reserves get low enough, so that could get bad for vehemence if he is far enough away from anyone that he CANT trigger a violent response and he actually does need vehemic energy to live.

Yeah, but Dabbler is a demon/alien thing. Vehemence, as far as we know, is a pure human. His power might make use of Vehemic energy to empower himself, but that doesn't mean his body NEEDs it like a succubus needs tantric energy.

[Kantaki]

New comic.

I bet it was Miss „We cut her head off. Most of it.”.
Just because I want to know how that looks.:smalleek:

And yeah, Ravven is definitely a sellsword. She might not be part of the conspiracy, but she will use their actions for her (factions) advantage.:smallamused:

[DataNinja]

Just because I want to know how that looks.:smalleek:

Are you sure you do? :smallamused:

[Kantaki]

Are you sure you do? :smallamused:

Call it morbid curiosity, but a (small) part of me wants to see if there is a difference to having your head mostly cut off. Like a certain Harry Potter character for example.
Not that either variant sounds very pleasant.
Neither for whoever it happend to nor to look at.

[Avilan the Grey]

Wow, congreatulations. I think a reply regarding the comics tempo/pacing, is about as useless a reply as i could possibly get to a comment about the quality of a specific update. I mean it would take work to be more off the mark than that ? :smallconfused:


My apologies; I jumped to conclusions. This comic has had quite a lot of complaints about pacing and how slow it is, many has been using the same kind of wording you did. Again, sorry.

[Forum Explorer]

Call it morbid curiosity, but a (small) part of me wants to see if there is a difference to having your head mostly cut off. Like a certain Harry Potter character for example.
Not that either variant sounds very pleasant.
Neither for whoever it happend to nor to look at.

My money is on the most of it being most of the head. Like everything above the tongue sort of cut.

[Kantaki]

New comic

That... is something you don't see every day. Fortunately...:smalleek:

And it seems Sciona has indeed the help of a member of the council.
That was unexpected.

I guess if the Council is responsible for the elf-ladies current state her actions might be understandable.

[Traab]

Heh, I notice pixel didnt answer her question about legality. But im sure it boils down to, "This is supernatural council business, so standard US law doesnt apply as its considered a bad thing to try and bring golems into court."

[HandofShadows]

Well, that was a surprise. I mean Pixel. Not a certain person's reaction. :smallbiggrin:

[Traab]

Yeah, I really didnt see that coming. Though im starting to think I should. Here a were, there a were, everywhere a were. Thats going to be my default assumption about literally everyone I meet. If their power is not specifically mentioned, I will assume they turn into a werecreature of some sort.

[-D-]

Yeah, I really didnt see that coming. Though im starting to think I should. Here a were, there a were, everywhere a were. Thats going to be my default assumption about literally everyone I meet. If their power is not specifically mentioned, I will assume they turn into a werecreature of some sort.
I like that were breasts are in the wrong position. Tigers/cats have breasts down there.

Also author likes furries, you didn't get the memo?

[halfeye]

Yeah, I really didnt see that coming. Though im starting to think I should. Here a were, there a were, everywhere a were. Thats going to be my default assumption about literally everyone I meet. If their power is not specifically mentioned, I will assume they turn into a werecreature of some sort.

Definitely.

With large breasts.

[HandofShadows]

New page

Some stock clowning around and we discover that "Safe Seach" is NOT on by default on Sydney's wrist computer. :smalleek:

[halfeye]

In relation to the author notes, I'd strongly argue that a panther is a leopard, and calling a black jaguar a panther is a mistake.

[Traab]

And as for me, I dont care, she is a were-cat of some sort, thats good enough for me. And I was hoping krona would actually enjoy the arnold puns/quotes.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well by not being a panther she misses out on one of the coolest theme tunes ever.

[Traab]

Well by not being a panther she misses out on one of the coolest theme tunes ever.

From the sound of things her regret at that is approximately zero.

[Steven]

Well by not being a panther she misses out on one of the coolest theme tunes ever.

For your enjoyment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLN6MC01Ueo)

[HandofShadows]

I would stick with the original. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPc7MRm4Y8

[Eldan]

Well by not being a panther she misses out on one of the coolest theme tunes ever.

As far as I'm aware, Panther is the generic name for a great cat, as well as the genus names for some of them (Panthera leo, the lion, Panthera tigris, the tiger, Panthera pardus, leopard). As the Jaguar is Panthera onca, she is, in fact, a panther.

[Avilan the Grey]

I would stick with the original. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPc7MRm4Y8

Thank you.


Why does bladder-hacking make me think of Sombra? Nevermind I just have Overwatch on my brain 24/7 right now.

[sihnfahl]

Okay, laser claws bipedal, invisibility quadrupedal.

... would Sydney's Truesight ball see through it?

[HandofShadows]

Okay, laser claws bipedal, invisibility quadrupedal.

... would Sydney's Truesight ball see through it?

Yeah, it should. That thing seems to see through everything.

[DataNinja]

Yeah, it should. That thing seems to see through everything.

Except, well, non-magical things. :smalltongue:

(Not saying this is non-magical, just saying 'everything' doesn't really apply.)

[The Glyphstone]

If Pixel really did just 'save game' there, I think she's safely secured the title of 'most powerful super/natural'. Maxima can blow stuff up real good and is indestructible, but being able to selectively rewind time whenever something doesn't go your way would be absurd.

[Traab]

If Pixel really did just 'save game' there, I think she's safely secured the title of 'most powerful super/natural'. Maxima can blow stuff up real good and is indestructible, but being able to selectively rewind time whenever something doesn't go your way would be absurd.

Yeah but thats probably limited somehow. Like it can only be used to rewind a certain length of time, and only if setup ahead of time. Otherwise yeah, most broken power ever.

[Forum Explorer]

If Pixel really did just 'save game' there, I think she's safely secured the title of 'most powerful super/natural'. Maxima can blow stuff up real good and is indestructible, but being able to selectively rewind time whenever something doesn't go your way would be absurd.

The 'just in case (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2346)' honestly made me think that either Harem or Sydney are now rocking a thong and haven't noticed yet. :smallwink:

[Ibrinar]

Yeah but thats probably limited somehow. Like it can only be used to rewind a certain length of time, and only if setup ahead of time. Otherwise yeah, most broken power ever.

Just make it so that it doesn't automatically trigger on death and you can just surprise kill them. Then restrict it to one savegame at a time and you can either keep a very long term one or risk being in a situation where your savegame does not get you far enough back.

[Traab]

Just make it so that it doesn't automatically trigger on death and you can just surprise kill them. Then restrict it to one savegame at a time and you can either keep a very long term one or risk being in a situation where your savegame does not get you far enough back.

Yeah I was honestly thinking about that myself. Like, would doing a save game once every day be good? Say I wake up, save game, then go about my business. If something catastrophic comes up, I should have hours to find a way to stop, counter, or ameliorate it. Take the Vehemence super brawl. She activates her power after its over, contacts maxima before the press conference, and shares what happened and what they learned. Suddenly Boom. Vehemence is wrapped up and teleported away before the brawl even starts and everyone else is broken from any potential mind whammy they were under. If the attack goes forward anyways, we know they were full of beans about the agro aura.

[lord_khaine]

Thats why i dont think Krona can do anything as earth-shattering as "save her game". What she might be able to do, is to save the current state of Pixel, and restore her to that specific state, with the memories the current one have, in case the present one loses an arm or get shot in the heart.

[John Campbell]

Yeah, it should. That thing seems to see through everything.

In fact, it can see through virtually nothing (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/671).

[HandofShadows]

In fact, it can see through virtually nothing (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/671).

Except illusions and invisability effects.

Poker? :smallconfused:

[sihnfahl]

Except illusions and invisability effects. Poker? :smallconfused:
If it can see through invisibility effects, it's seeing through nothing.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If it can see through invisibility effects, it's seeing through nothing.

Or it's seeing through light distortion, which...

Actually, if it's light distortion, isn't that a non-magical result that she wouldn't be able to bypass?

[-D-]

New comic.

Meeeeeeeeediic. Also we find out how they extract blood.

[sihnfahl]

Meeeeeeeeediic. Also we find out how they extract blood.

Well, it's only a little better than hanging from metal poles, shrink-wrapped in semi-transparent plastic...

[Traab]

Ive got the feeling this is a big time setup. There is no way they captured pixel and then didnt even bother to make sure if she was alone. Im thinking the entire team barring sydney is going to get nabbed (since sydney is staying outside using her holo sydney to guide them in) and it will be up to her to save the day because even though maxima is capable of hypersonic flight, she is going to be busy with her own issues atm.

[Celestia]

Ive got the feeling this is a big time setup. There is no way they captured pixel and then didnt even bother to make sure if she was alone. Im thinking the entire team barring sydney is going to get nabbed (since sydney is staying outside using her holo sydney to guide them in) and it will be up to her to save the day because even though maxima is capable of hypersonic flight, she is going to be busy with her own issues atm.
I'm sure harem will be fine, too. Kinda hard to nab a teleporter.

[Traab]

I'm sure harem will be fine, too. Kinda hard to nab a teleporter.

A blackjack to the back of the skull will keep her from teleporting. Of course, that will also tell the rest of her bodies what happened to her, but still, THAT body aint going nowhere. Unless she can be remotely depoofed by the rest of the harems. Either way she is out of the game.

[halfeye]

A blackjack to the back of the skull will keep her from teleporting. Of course, that will also tell the rest of her bodies what happened to her, but still, THAT body aint going nowhere. Unless she can be remotely depoofed by the rest of the harems. Either way she is out of the game.

What's worse, she's one mind in multiple bodies, if one body and thus the mind is down, the rest are unconcious for the duration that the first one is out.

[Celestia]

A blackjack to the back of the skull will keep her from teleporting. Of course, that will also tell the rest of her bodies what happened to her, but still, THAT body aint going nowhere. Unless she can be remotely depoofed by the rest of the harems. Either way she is out of the game.
True, but another Harem could pop in.


What's worse, she's one mind in multiple bodies, if one body and thus the mind is down, the rest are unconcious for the duration that the first one is out.
Nonsense. Unconsciousness is a physical state, not a mental one. If one body gets knocked out via blunt force trauma, the others will be unaffected. The only way that would work is if she gets disabled by some sort of telepath or the like.

[Traab]

True, but another Harem could pop in.


Nonsense. Unconsciousness is a physical state, not a mental one. If one body gets knocked out via blunt force trauma, the others will be unaffected. The only way that would work is if she gets disabled by some sort of telepath or the like.

Which is a distinct possibility considering how quickly pixel got taken out. An invisible were creature probably wouldnt be taken out in a physical fight quietly.

[halfeye]

Nonsense. Unconsciousness is a physical state, not a mental one. If one body gets knocked out via blunt force trauma, the others will be unaffected. The only way that would work is if she gets disabled by some sort of telepath or the like.

I can't find it right now, but there's a comic where one harem gets hurt, and all the rest of her feel it. That does mean as I understand it, one unconcious, all unconcious.

[Forum Explorer]

I can't find it right now, but there's a comic where one harem gets hurt, and all the rest of her feel it. That does mean as I understand it, one unconcious, all unconcious.

Yes, but when one of there arms are broken, they don't all get a broken arm or suffer any loss of use of that arm, even if they all feel it. Being knocked unconscious is a physical injury, so beyond a sudden spike of pain, I don't think Harem would be impended by one of her being knocked out.

[lord_khaine]

A blackjack to the back of the skull will keep her from teleporting. Of course, that will also tell the rest of her bodies what happened to her, but still, THAT body aint going nowhere. Unless she can be remotely depoofed by the rest of the harems. Either way she is out of the game.

Actually, there isnt any rest of the harems. Its all Harem. So its not impossible that she can depoof a body thats not concious.

new comic

let me just state now. I really, really! hate that Sydney has just randomly been given the ability to teleport. Its not like her mobility were not already rather high.

[HandofShadows]

to learn that you can teleport! :smalleek:

[Traab]

Wow, thats both unexpected and amazingly incredible all in one! She now has a massive advantage over harem in that she can scout out a location with an impossible to hurt illusion BEFORE teleporting into it. Of course the downside is she cant exactly nightcrawler bamf at will as she has to send her holo sydney to the next location first, but still, its an interesting setup. NEW ORB COMBO!!!!! Shield and teleorb. We need experiments to see if she can teleport herself and anything inside her shield or not. No weight restrictions for sydney! Wouldnt that be insane? She puts up her big shield, sends her holo sydney to a dangerous location like say, behind enemy lines, and BAMF! Team Archon is now taking part in a pincer attack on the enemy. We would have to learn her distance limits but even as a short range thing, it could be incredibly effective. My only complaint is that more and more sydney is becoming everyone on the team power wise. She isnt always better or identical, but with her violatorb she has super strength, she has flight, her shield for durability, her ppo for energy blasts, and now she has a way to teleport.

[halfeye]

Wow, thats both unexpected and amazingly incredible all in one! She now has a massive advantage over harem in that she can scout out a location with an impossible to hurt illusion BEFORE teleporting into it. Of course the downside is she cant exactly nightcrawler bamf at will as she has to send her holo sydney to the next location first, but still, its an interesting setup. NEW ORB COMBO!!!!! Shield and teleorb. We need experiments to see if she can teleport herself and anything inside her shield or not. No weight restrictions for sydney! Wouldnt that be insane? She puts up her big shield, sends her holo sydney to a dangerous location like say, behind enemy lines, and BAMF! Team Archon is now taking part in a pincer attack on the enemy. We would have to learn her distance limits but even as a short range thing, it could be incredibly effective. My only complaint is that more and more sydney is becoming everyone on the team power wise. She isnt always better or identical, but with her violatorb she has super strength, she has flight, her shield for durability, her ppo for energy blasts, and now she has a way to teleport.
She's ahead of Maxima at this point I think. Which is ridiculous. :smallbiggrin:

They should definitely have detected hostiles and called for help, this is stupid, they know there's a problem and they're not calling in backup. It was supposed to be reconnaissance, they've got information, withdrawing is good, calling the data in is good, going blindly into a known hotspot with reconnaissance level forces is not right.

[Celestia]

I'd just like to take a moment to throw my two coppers in and say that the freaking out about Sydney's power (which is nothing new) is absurd. Yes, she's powerful, but that strength is tempered with flaws and development. She's not some self-insertion wish fulfillment fantasy. She is a real character with a real personality. She is a real person, a person who happens to be an average Jane suddenly gifted with all-mighty artifacts. It's actually quite an interesting set up. What would a normal person do with godlike might? Plus, her power level was even foreshadowed all the way back on page four, so you can't say you didn't anticipate this. It's just supremely irritating and comes off like pretentious whining. :/

[Traab]

Its hardly pretentious whining to point out that sydney is basically getting a version of everyones powers and thinking thats a bit crazy. Thankfully her two orb limit helps keep it reigned in otherwise her hero name would be the Almighty Halo.

[Celestia]

Well, there are only so many super powers available, and that upgrade screen was rather massive. What were you expecting?

[AvatarVecna]

Well, there are only so many super powers available, and that upgrade screen was rather massive. What were you expecting?

I don't know about you, but I expected that most of the upgrade tree would be increases to her existing abilities, with fully new abilities being rather rare. That it's the first one she chose isn't a huge issue for me, but I definitely recognize why it's potentially a problem.

Of course, this orb is still balanced out by other orbs: for starters, is she's using the Tele-Comm Orb, she's at best using one other orb (probably the Shield). We also don't know what kind of range limit the TC Orb has, whether on the clairvoyance or the teleportation.

And of course, the biggest limitation on her current powers is that Sydney is the one who has them. Sure, it's not fair to say she should've known it was a teleport function, but even without knowing what it does, the middle of a mission when you've confirmed the existence of hostiles whose location and capabilities are unknown is not the time to start experimenting around.

[Forum Explorer]

I'd say the biggest weakness of the Teleport is that it's basically a one way trip. Her hologram didn't swap spots with her, and now she'd have to walk it back out in order to teleport again. I can't remember the restrictions on creating a hologram, but I think it's basically Line of Sight.

[AvatarVecna]

I'd say the biggest weakness of the Teleport is that it's basically a one way trip. Her hologram didn't swap spots with her, and now she'd have to walk it back out in order to teleport again. I can't remember the restrictions on creating a hologram, but I think it's basically Line of Sight.

She didn't need LoS to get the hologram here in the first place, but it definitely took a bit of time to get it in here.

[Traab]

It paid off pretty well against vehemence when she pressed a new button on her com orb and suddenly could see auras. But yeah, middle of a situation, not the best time to start pressing buttons randomly. And yes, I was hoping for more improvements to skills than new skills, but things like being able to alter the holo sydney to disguise herself, that would have been cool. A nice chameleon effect or something, also cool. X ray vision, just for an excuse to remove that sign in the bathroom :smalltongue: There are a half dozen new abilities the orb could have gotten that dont step on the toes of anyone else and basically make an impressive variant of their powers.

Honestly, aside from the two mystery orbs, I hope she doesnt get many new powers, because I would honestly prefer her to get improvements to what she already has. Faster flight, new options with her shield, stronger light hook, etc etc etc. She is already virtually a one man team, no need to make her a one man archon. (Not arcswat, ARCHON)

Although speaking of which, I have to admit, ive had this niggling desire in the back of my head for some time. No, not from dabbler bending over, thats a different desire. What I was thinking was, wouldnt it have been kinda cool if sydney had been placed in arc light or dark or whatever the investigative group is? Her yellow orb alone, with its original skill plus the aura/magic vision alone would have made her handy, and the team would have had a quite certainly offense based member as well for situations liiiiike, this one right now. I think it would have made for a very interesting, very different comic. Solving mysteries, only sometimes having to fight for your life, or the life of your team, and learning how to be an investigator, which takes her out of her comic book genre savvy power mode, and makes her a true rookie. Throw in more theory crafting over her orbs like what she could do with them now, and what the power ups might do, testing both out in between missions, that sort of thing.

[AvatarVecna]

It paid off pretty well against vehemence when she pressed a new button on her com orb and suddenly could see auras.

"New button" here being code for "truesight button she was already aware of the existence and function of". But otherwise, totally solid counterpoint. :smalltongue:

[Yuki Akuma]

Read that strip again. She didn't press the truesight button, she pressed a different one.

"Hmm, nothing on truesight. ... The shield orb has an embiggener, maybe the com-ball has vision modes. ... No! Focus! Logic it out! So if the top one is truesight [then this one is something else]"

[Discus-Spinner]

They should definitely have detected hostiles and called for help, this is stupid, they know there's a problem and they're not calling in backup.
Nitpick; one of Harem is present, which makes it reasonable to assume that others of the team - not least Max - are being alerted to the situation at this exact moment. Sydney is being rash, but they're not out of contact with backup.

[The Glyphstone]

Whatever happened to the thing where it was revealed that Harem was Deus's mole inside ARCHON, anyways?