Magic Horti-/Agri-culture Optimization

[Jowgen]

So this might seem a bit strange, but I am looking for means to optimize the process of growing plants for any and all purposes.

Plant Growth seems like a good basis, although from my understanding, you can't keep stacking it.

Wood Shape also seems like it might be useful. If I am reading things right, any wood-based plant (e.g. tree) that has been affected by the overgrowth effect of Plant Growth could then be re-shaped to just be bigger afterwards (i.e. sprout it out, pull it in).

So yeah, what else is there that could help?

[ATHATH]

Planar Bubble to a Fast-Time Plane, perhaps?

What do you need this for?

[Ruethgar]

Do note that the overgrowth function of Plant Growth does not mature the plant.
Dark Sun has a few spells you might want to look into.

Nurturing Seeds: make 10 seeds or cuttings able to withstand all non-animal and non-magical threats and makes a small area habitable for other plants.
Clear Water: double the effectiveness of water.
Cooling Canopy: Half required water intake for all who stay under the 30ft radius for 6+ hours.
Plant Renewal: Bring a plant back from near destruction
Rejuvenate: makes a land temporarily fertile, grass covers the area, and supplies a second source for enrichment as plant growth

There are also the magical side effects from some Dragon Magazine, one of them is tangentially 160sq ft of grass growth which is very versatile considering grains are grass, plus bamboo, and rice.

[Jowgen]

Planar Bubble to a Fast-Time Plane, perhaps?

I personally don't favor Fast-Time trait abuse, but the idea of using planar traits in general does appeal. I think Precipitate Breach (combined with something to ensure a worthwhile connection) is preferrable for this purpose though, as it lasts days rather than minutes. Just the question what some good planar traits would be.


What do you need this for?

It's mainly optimizer's curiosity. :smalltongue:


Do note that the overgrowth function of Plant Growth does not mature the plant.
Dark Sun has a few spells you might want to look into.
Nurturing Seeds: make 10 seeds or cuttings able to withstand all non-animal and non-magical threats and makes a small area habitable for other plants.
Clear Water: double the effectiveness of water.
Cooling Canopy: Half required water intake for all who stay under the 30ft radius for 6+ hours.
Plant Renewal: Bring a plant back from near destruction
Rejuvenate: makes a land temporarily fertile, grass covers the area, and supplies a second source for enrichment as plant growth

There are also the magical side effects from some Dragon Magazine, one of them is tangentially 160sq ft of grass growth which is very versatile considering grains are grass, plus bamboo, and rice.

Interesting stuff. By "does not mature", do you mean that the plant -while getting bigger- does not sprout flowers or whatever it equivalent is?

My familiarity with Dark Sun is essentially 0. Is that setting even 1st party?

I shall have a look at the magical side effects, thank you :smallsmile:

EDIT: Can't seem to find the side-effects, only managed to get the potion ones from dragondex. Help? :smallfrown:

[Gnorman]

Control Weather and Move Earth seem to have some very obviously helpful uses.

[Cerefel]

Would the positive energy planar trait be helpful? I know the fluff mentions vibrant plant life.

[Inevitability]

Summoning Ragnorra would probably increase plant growth. Just don't complain when your crops start to grow arms and try to strangle you when you come close.

[Ruethgar]

Dark Sun is officially licensed, but not WotC published, Just like Ravenloft, and Kalimdor.

The magical side effects are listed, and described as potion side effects in their descriptive texts, however the paragraphs for them state that they can be applied to any magical effect, be it spell or item, and that the player can alter the randomly rolled side effects to fit the theme of the spell.

Sorry for the errors in the post, Siri isn't the best for this. What I mean by the plant growth overgrowth not maturing plants, is that it just makes them grow bigger, like if you cast giant growth on a baby, it's still a baby, just a big baby.

[Jowgen]

Control Weather and Move Earth seem to have some very obviously helpful uses.

Move Earth seems easy to replicate mundanely, but I can see Control Weather helping. Actually, going from that, I think Speak with Plants might be useful, provided plants can answer questions about their favored weather/climate for growth.


Would the positive energy planar trait be helpful? I know the fluff mentions vibrant plant life.

Don't think so, lots of planar descriptions talk about how the trees look (e.g. those Gem trees on... Bytopia?).


Dark Sun is officially licensed, but not WotC published, Just like Ravenloft, and Kalimdor.

The magical side effects are listed, and described as potion side effects in their descriptive texts, however the paragraphs for them state that they can be applied to any magical effect, be it spell or item, and that the player can alter the randomly rolled side effects to fit the theme of the spell.

Dark Sun. Noted.

I've had another look at the side-effects, and while the adaptation part does fit, I did not see any particular side-effect among the 60 listed that would be useful for horti/agricultural purposes.

I thought that's what you meant, and I believe I agree. I do think it might be possible to induce maturing otherwise (e.g. Speak with Plant to deterine right soil/weather conditions, Control Weather and such to make it happen).

[Bronk]

A maxed Profession: Farmer or something like that would help, although the skill only measures output in its worth in gold. Still, if one untrained guy with as much farm as one person can handle only makes 1sp per day, and someone with the skill can get 1/2 their skill check in gold every week, then monetarily that works out to quite the multiplier (slightly depends on if you're using a regular week or a Faerunian tenday, I guess).

Tree-style feather tokens can pop out one mature oak tree each, so you might try to make custom items for other plants, and/or maximize how many of them you can get through various shenanigans.

[Ruethgar]

I've had another look at the side-effects, and while the adaptation part does fit, I did not see any particular side-effect among the 60 listed that would be useful for horti/agricultural purposes.

I thought that's what you meant, and I believe I agree. I do think it might be possible to induce maturing otherwise (e.g. Speak with Plant to deterine right soil/weather conditions, Control Weather and such to make it happen).

The side effect in question is the Rod of Wonder, it has both Rain and Grass Growth. I realize this is a bit of a stretch, a Dragon Magazine article, and hand picking what is listed as a doubly random effect. But I thought it should be mentioned for completeness' sake as it can be fairly potent depending on grass choice leniency.

Bestow Curse to age the plants might work, may have to be animated first, but that is a bit of a round-about way to do things.

It should also be noted that the item creation effect of Prestidigitation is not among the effects that has a limited duration and that the entire matter of a seed so created will dissipate fairly quickly as it grows making its frailty less of an issue and even less so with Nurturing Seeds.

[nedz]

Take Leadership - have your followers be Gardeners / Farmers.

[Stegyre]

Probably not quite what you're looking for, but tree token (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#tree): 400 gp for an instantaneous, 60' tall, 5' diameter oak tree.

I don't think anything grows a plant faster than that.

[Ruethgar]

Probably not quite what you're looking for, but tree token (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#tree): 400 gp for an instantaneous, 60' tall, 5' diameter oak tree.

I don't think anything grows a plant faster than that.

It takes essentially a day to grow with item creation rules unless the DM is going to say "Sure, the entirety of this cities available wealth is made up of trees." And while it might be the fastest for giant oaks, you could be spending your day on other things... unless you want to be a Warforged, then just take an 8hr morning of farming, 8hr evening of tree making, 8hr night of spell and other horticultural and agricultural boons.

[Jowgen]

A maxed Profession: Farmer or something like that would help,

Take Leadership - have your followers be Gardeners / Farmers.

That stuff ain't "magic" horti/agriculture :smalltongue:


The side effect in question is the Rod of Wonder,

Ahh, I see. Makes sense, I see what you were going for.


Bestow Curse to age the plants

While I can conceive the notion of a DM allowing curse-aging for Dragon-optimization, I can not see anyone allowing curses aging plants :smalltongue:


Tree-style Token

I don't think this works, actually. The tokens work of Major Creation, which works like minor creation, which specifically can only create non-living objects. Unless a DM arbitrarily decides that the Oak Tree is a real live one, the created tree would essentially be a dead fake.


It should also be noted that the item creation effect of Prestidigitation is not among the effects that has a limited duration and that the entire matter of a seed so created will dissipate fairly quickly as it grows making its frailty less of an issue and even less so with Nurturing Seeds.

Interesting. Very interesting...

[Bayar]

This (http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-20-weirdest-dungeons-dragons-magical-items-1596482305) link might have a couple of items that might interest you.

[Sian]

Talk a Dwarven Chanter (archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a) into doing the Timing Chant for your peasant farmers ... +20 untyped bonus to Profession: Farmer to everyone that join the chant.

[Inevitability]

Talk a Dwarven Chanter (archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a) into doing the Timing Chant for your peasant farmers ... +20 untyped bonus to Profession: Farmer to everyone that join the chant.

That link redirects to an article on vermin companions.

[Bronk]

That stuff ain't "magic" horti/agriculture :smalltongue:

Maybe... use magic to boost their skills?



I don't think this works, actually. The tokens work of Major Creation, which works like minor creation, which specifically can only create non-living objects. Unless a DM arbitrarily decides that the Oak Tree is a real live one, the created tree would essentially be a dead fake.


Heh, that's a new one! I think having a tree 'spring into being' covers it enough that it would have to specify 'dead' if that's what it meant.



While I can conceive the notion of a DM allowing curse-aging for Dragon-optimization, I can not see anyone allowing curses aging plants :smalltongue:

Ah, but plant creatures? You could even curse their seeds!

Oh, how about a captive (details... unimportant?) time dragon, maybe lashed to a cart so you can bring it around and aim its breath weapon at your longer lived plants to age them up?

[daremetoidareyo]

Self resetting trap of create water seems like a no brainer. Set it at the top of a dripping array (a horizontal pipe with holes drilled in it) for irrigation.

Those feather tokens might be helpful to grow certain shady area preferring plants. Even if they are just facsimile trees...Plus, you can chop them down for lumber.

I suppose exemplar (CA) can use profession: gardener as a diplomacy check...

Although 3.0, Verdant lord gets infusions at first level, and there are a myriad of rules about gardening infusion ingredients. You might be able to garden up infusions that make better gardens...p.32 of Master's of the wild. Infusions are basically scrolls that you eat. So you can make a berry pie that allows you to control weather!

At 8th level you can animate a tree once a day. Congratulations, I hope you have [creature type] trainer because you can train these trees to do the grunt work of farming so long as they remain within 180 feet of the caster. The way that the ability is worded is such that you can have any number of animated trees that can be fit within 180 feet of yourself, animating them once a day over the course of a few days.

Also, remember that command plants and control plants swapped names in the transition between 3.0 and 3.5, and so you can get into this class by level 8.

Also, Making the infusions yourself increases the caster level of the infusion by 1. It appears to actually works better on an artificer than a druid though. Mostly because of the high Int score granting the necessary skill points and the UMD ranks to use the infusion. Although you're gonna have to blow a feat or a class level to get survival ranks. I suggest human paragon 1/artificer 19. You literally make free scrolls that you eat. Your class levels give you the XP pool.

[Sian]

That link redirects to an article on vermin companions.

somehow managed to copy the wrong link ... Here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061128a) it is.

[Deadline]

I built an Exemplar intended to do something like this for Junkyard Wars here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18116729&postcount=66

Worked out pretty well. Have him pick up a Druid cohort and go nuts.

[ericgrau]

There are lots of rare and magical plants you may want to look into growing. Often with long maturity times. An accelerated time plane may help.


Summoning Ragnorra would probably increase plant growth. Just don't complain when your crops start to grow arms and try to strangle you when you come close.

I once had a character who was deathly afraid of some magical produce the DM put in the campaign. Eventually he picked up the custom spell protection from weaponized horticulture. If you make magic horticulture big enough then researching such a spell may become a bit more popular.

[Ruethgar]

.At 8th level you can animate a tree once a day. Congratulations, I hope you have [creature type] trainer because you can train these trees to do the grunt work of farming so long as they remain within 180 feet of the caster. The way that the ability is worded is such that you can have any number of animated trees that can be fit within 180 feet of yourself, animating them once a day over the course of a few days.

Also, remember that command plants and control plants swapped names in the transition between 3.0 and 3.5, and so you can get into this class by level 8.

AFB right now, but see about using Acorns of Far travel from the animated trees to extend the area they can cover.

[daremetoidareyo]

AFB right now, but see about using Acorns of Far travel from the animated trees to extend the area they can cover.

Beautiful. You can make them by casting spells from infusions to keep the cost down.

[Jowgen]

Found something of interest. A Basket of Delights (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030613a) "fills with all manner of ripe, delicious-looking fruit, sufficient to feed three humans for one day". Fruits, by definition, contain seeds, and since the fruit is described as ripe, the seeds must be viable.

So, yeah, one of these should be able to function as a reliable supply of seeds for any plant that can be argued to bear fruit.

[Jagernaut]

Maybe a mass version of the Sandstorm spell hydrate? In my head that spell brings can't over water plants, but it might only work if the plant is already wilting (i.e. taken dehydration damage.) Admittedly this idea is pretty silly and probably not that useful when you could just create rain and hit way more plants, but I really like this spell for some reason. My favorite use is to cure hangovers!

Also, I happen to be a horticulturalist so if anyone one has questions on how plants grow in real life feel free to ask.

[daremetoidareyo]

Warforged titan (from ECS is a 12 HD Huge Construct. With an elite array, you can get an intelligence as high as 7. If you then change it's feats from HD to Ironwood Body (HD 1), and Apprentice (woodsman) (HD 3), and open mind (HD 6 & 9) you can qualify for landforged walker. At level 3: You get Body of Nature, wherein you can coax beneficial herbs to grow on your HUGE body.


Level 1: Upon taking your first level in this prestige class, you sprout a second skin composed of tiny plants native to your chosen terrain. For instance, a desert landforged walker might appear covered with tiny cacti, while an underground landforged walker might grow a skin of moss and fungi. This living skin is a mystical representation of your bond with the earth, and it requires neither water nor sunlight. Damaged or harvested areas regenerate almost instantly.

3rd level: Three times per day, you can harvest these herbs as a move action. Once harvested, they remain potent for 1 hour. When consumed by a living creature (a standard action), the herbs heal damage equal to your class level × your Wisdom bonus. These herbs work equally well on all living creatures, including living constructs, but have no effect on other creatures.

You get tiny localized plants that instantly grow back when removed. You can feed an entire army unlimited alfalfa sprouts! You'll have the healthiest army in the world.

So, you basically turn the most intelligent warforged titan ever forged into a giant mobile flower bed. Depending on your campaign needs, you can dip those herbs in quintessence to cure them permanently (they won't age beyond that hour) and you can save them as static healing potions that would work on constructs. Throw a wisdom boosting item on the warforged to get crazy awesome healing options (up to +20 - +30 per herb). After finding a warforged titan, all you need is a psion with expanded knowledge (for quintessence building) and them you psychically reformat him to be your garden.

Same idea can work with a warforged scorpion (SoX p.75) but it is only a large construct, but your garden wont be as big. It will, however, be closer to the ground, which is more friendly to old people. Depending on your staff, this might be a necessity.

There is Fluff support for the steel kraken (5N p.93) to be considered warforged, if you wanted your flower bed to be entirely aquatic. You could grow kelp or edible seaweeds from it's underbelly.

The Duststuffed Template from the Explorer's handbook allows you to apply the living construct type to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid. I'm sure that there's a way to muck around with that to make the perfect flower pot.

[Ruethgar]

Also, I happen to be a horticulturalist so if anyone one has questions on how plants grow in real life feel free to ask.

What exactly do plants need and could they be provided for by spells?

Nurturing Seeds seals the deal so they don't die except by magic and animal intervention. But without nutrition, I assume they would not grow and certainly not flower(example being various spicy peppers requiring extra calcium).

Create Water/Hydrate of course.

Chicken Infested can help with fertilizer. But what else would you need?

Daylight makes light as bright as daylight, one can assume that is in all spectrums else if wouldn't be as bright. This makes a fine 24hr sun if we use RL growth. However I am AFB and do not know if the sun is explicitly responsible for plant growth because of it being a hole to the positive energy plane, or if it is unspecified leaving it to the default "as real life" ruling.

[Bronk]

This just came up in another thread: the 'Fruit Blossom Spike', which turns out to be from the Arms and Equipment Guide. Hammer it into a fruit tree, and within one round the tree perks up, grows an 'enormous amount' of fruit, drops the fruit, and the tree dies. The fruit lasts for 3 days but has magic properties, then turns to mush. Can't be used on plant creatures.

Seems like a decent way to harvest fruit you're going to use quickly, as well as to gather seeds.

[Ruethgar]

Oh especially if the tree isn't destroyed, it would be able to be revived immediately afterward with Druid Dark Sun spell Plant Renewal.

Edit: AFB Does it specify how much fruit? Because then we wouldn't have to worry about the trees actually growing up esp if it is reusable.

The spike and the tree are utterly destroyed in the process.

[ericgrau]

Oh yeah daylight spells could let you stack several levels of plants in a skyscraper to save space. Not very cost effective but if you can get around that it could greatly increase output. Likewise something to create a soil-like material instead of plain old dirt for the planters (which doesn't work). Any loose spongy substance such as decomposed bark will do. Even sand works though it doesn't retain water as well.

To be more cost effective you need an efficient way to plant and harvest, rather than trying to save space. This is the greater concern to this day, not space or productivity per unit area/time. In medieval times it's even more true.

[Jagernaut]

What exactly do plants need and could they be provided for by spells?

Nurturing Seeds seals the deal so they don't die except by magic and animal intervention. But without nutrition, I assume they would not grow and certainly not flower(example being various spicy peppers requiring extra calcium).

Create Water/Hydrate of course.

Chicken Infested can help with fertilizer. But what else would you need?

Daylight makes light as bright as daylight, one can assume that is in all spectrums else if wouldn't be as bright. This makes a fine 24hr sun if we use RL growth. However I am AFB and do not know if the sun is explicitly responsible for plant growth because of it being a hole to the positive energy plane, or if it is unspecified leaving it to the default "as real life" ruling.

Plants most important needs are light, water, CO2, O2, nitrogen, and phosphorus. There are several other macro and micro nutrients, but for the most part decent soil provides those in abundance. Another important consideration is soil PH - too acidic or basic and the roots can't pick up the nutrients. Most plants do better in slightly basic soil, but some (pine trees for instance) prefer it acidic.

As far as fertilizer goes just use Stone to Flesh to create big meat tubes (by my calculations roughly 72 cubic feet per casting). Of course you still need to compost this, but I'm sure there's some way to speed that up too.

24 hours of light may not actually be that helpful. A lot of plants use the length of night or day to determine when to flower and fruit. Of course you could use this same concept to force them into flower by changing the duration of Daylight. Some plants would do just fine with 24 hours though.

Note that plants still need to go through respiration like animals. Photosynthesis produces sugars using CO2, but the plants can't break down those sugars without oxygen. Proper air flow is crucial for a few reasons actually. If the leaves are sitting in poor circulation it's more likely they'll get a disease.

[Ruethgar]

Create Element(Air) would get the gasses covered, need a mass version(such as War or Ocular Chain) to hit multiple plants. Gust of Wind also makes air, but it only lasts one round and Persisting it would cause even more damage at the end of the day when the air suddenly vanishes from the cells.

I like Chicken Infested, or just chickens, more than Stone to Flesh, it can be pulled off at a lower level and the chickens can provide meat and eggs in addition to their composting manure. Getting endless carbon for the composting a little harder. I suppose this is where those dead Feather Token: Trees come in as a fairly cheap way to ensure a steady supply of wood that you can then splinter.

I was mostly thinking about the veggies grown in Alaskan summer with 18hr of daylight and how massive they can get. You could limit the light, closing off the source at night on a schedule for underground growth. Mostly it gives you more options of placement than on the surface or by a window.

Don't forget the Wood Wose. The Redhead feat from Ravenloft can get you one first level druid spell 1/day. A Sanctum War Persist Extend Wood Wose is still a level one spell and you skip the irritating requirements for War spells in order to get 50*CL untrained laborers per day. Ocular Chain would be more reasonable for CL+1 instead. They can't do much, but they can Craft DC 10(they can't assist) and Profession: Mine DC 10 which could help for an underground garden, or a cliff face garden. You would have to ask your DM about other professions such as Farming which require you be trained, but ants farm so it is possible to fit into the Wood Wose repertoire as something done in nature.

[Jowgen]

I am loving how well this thread is going, although I think we're slowly getting into catgirl endangering territory.

I personally think that the Enrichment use of Plant growth infuses the soil with nutrients; wherein "one third above normal" is simply the average amount a plant can grow with optimal soil conditions (the overgrowth option forces the stuff straight into the plants instead). In game, this might well be easy to test for, as you should be able to ask plants how they're linking their current soil using Speak with Plants.

However, if one did want to add some sort of fertilizer, I think the easiest option for making some is Snoflake Lichen (Frost p. 16); which specifically turns everything it kills by freezing into "rich fertilizer in the spring". Should be relatively easy to works the stuff into an effective composting process.

Alternatively, if one did want to do something akin to stone to flesh; I think it would be far more efficient to just make straight up blood meal (nitrogen) and bone meal (phosphorus) fertilizers. For bone meal, there is the Wu Jen wall of bones spell, which then just needs grinding.

You can make endless amount of blood-meal by getting a creature with fast healing and subjecting it to any no-duration HP-based bleeding effect (e.g. arterial strike). In fluff, you may have to supplement the creature with a source of water and maybe food; but that's about it. Also, some creature's blood might work better than others? I mean, it seems like bleeding a Fey creature would be way better fertilizer than regular?

EDIT: According to Magic of Faerun p. 43, the mulch from Fey burial mounds may have "magical properties that spur plants to grow".

Either case, getting optimal soil conditions should be no problem. For harvesting and general field work, I think an army of Unseen Crafters would be preferable to Wood Woses. One Eternal Wand straight up translates into 6 tireless workers with potentially very beefy craft checks, or 12 if Words of Creation is ruled to work with spell-trigger items.

[Inevitability]

Has anyone mentioned tossing a piece of brown mold onto the elemental plane of fire yet? Whenever you need biological material afterwards, just ward yourself against fire and cold, open a Gate or portal and cut away all the mold you need.

[Ruethgar]

I personally think that the Enrichment use of Plant growth infuses the soil with nutrients; wherein "one third above normal" is simply the average amount a plant can grow with optimal soil conditions (the overgrowth option forces the stuff straight into the plants instead). In game, this might well be easy to test for, as you should be able to ask plants how they're linking their current soil using Speak with Plants.

Either case, getting optimal soil conditions should be no problem. For harvesting and general field work, I think an army of Unseen Crafters would be preferable to Wood Woses. One Eternal Wand straight up translates into 6 tireless workers with potentially very beefy craft checks, or 12 if Words of Creation is ruled to work with spell-trigger items.

I would think enrichment would give 1/3 more over the normal for local conditions, not 1/3 over optimal conditions. And as said before, the overgrowth does not mature the plants unless house ruled otherwise. For things that need harvesting at a young age or by volume over flowering this is fine(lettuce, bamboo shoots, saplings of garlic/alfalfa/beans and others), but not for all of them.

The thing about Unseen Crafters is that they can't do Profession Farming because it is trained only, nor can Unseen Servants. I suggested Wood Wose because the base Druid which would probably be used for this has access and it has some leeway in being able to do tasks which occur in nature which making non-collapsing tunnels and farming both fall into which normally require a Knowledge DC 20 and training in a skill.

For building your base with the mined resources(however your GM wants to allocate that), then you can use the crafters, or building things for landscaping if you wanted a zen or botanical garden sort of feel with an artificial stream, little bridges, benches etc.

[johnbragg]

Plant Growth is a good starting point. IS there a metamagic feat to expand its area of effect? Enlarge Spell only works on ranges, not areas of effect, and only for ranges defined as short/medium/long.

AoE boosting metamagic maybe in the Miniatures HAndbook? (Warmages and other blaster wizards would sign up for that.)

EDIT: Widen Spell, doubles area of effect for line, burst, cone, line or spread. +3 spell levels, which is why I completely forgot about it. IF you rule that the 1/2 mile radius of plant growth is a burst, and I don't know why you wouldn't, that gives you 3.14 square miles of increased crop yield.

[Jowgen]

I would think enrichment would give 1/3 more over the normal for local conditions, not 1/3 over optimal conditions. And as said before, the overgrowth does not mature the plants unless house ruled otherwise. For things that need harvesting at a young age or by volume over flowering this is fine(lettuce, bamboo shoots, saplings of garlic/alfalfa/beans and others), but not for all of them.

I think we have a minor miscommunication. My assumption was that "normal" would be defined as "this species in average soil", while "this species in optimal soil" would be the equivalent of of "normal + 1/3". In my mind this made sense, because a plants growth can only be boosted by so much with ideal nutrition (hence no stacking) and those conditions would regress back to the average over time (effect only lasts 1 year).

That is of course not to say that growth can't be boosted otherwise. Extra daylight might still work, and watering plants with a mixture of Holy Water and Fey Blood seems like something that should further increase yield.


The thing about Unseen Crafters is that they can't do Profession Farming because it is trained only, nor can Unseen Servants.

I don't think Profession Farming, or Profession in general, is strictly necessary; or even applicable. Profession Farming checks would allow you to make gold by running a farm, but the skill in no way is used to measure how much of a thing is created. The main skill needed, as far as I can tell, would be Knowledge Nature. In the few articles and splat-mentions to do with growing plants I found, that skill always came up. In either case, I would think only the main person in charge of an area would need to make those checks.

I think Unseen Crafters would make a well suitable grunt-workforce. I think that between uses such as Craft (Farm Tools), Craft (Irrigation-system) or even Craft (Aqueduct); most of the really labor-hour intensive jobs would be taken care of.

[Ruethgar]

I see your point with the crafters and I would utilize them to some degree. Wood Wose are just more flavorful and potentially more lenient in what they can do. You would still have to personally harvest(or some beefed up begotten Bogon), especially for the ones that need high Knowledge Nature and Profession Herbalism skill checks.

If you wanted useful plant-ish things and Dark Sun is a go, Life Shaped creatures are animals/plants/constructs. However they are poorly written and hard to tend to, but could be cool as guardian trees and are very customizable.

[Jowgen]

Alrighty then, let us review what we have so far:


First, Speak with Plants, to assess the condition of plants, how they like their environemt, and how that environment might be improved. Plant Watch might also be used, but is less effective. Lastly, one might be able to instruct the plant on how it should grow (e.g. handy for timber trees)

Second, we optimize the environmental conditions. Control Weather gives the desired general climate; Daylight can increase light hours, and Control Temperature can further fine-tune the climate; all as per the Plant's desire. Shifting CO2 to Oxygen balance in the air might be another option, but difficult to achieve.

Third, we optimize soil and nutrients. Depending on the DM, this might be exactly what Plant Growth does. If not, fertilizer is added as the plant desires. Snowflak Lichen from Frostburn are written to produce rich fertilizer from creatures they kill. Alternatively, going by real word horticulture, blood and bone make ideal sources for fertilizers that provide the most vital nutrients. Good source include creatures with fast healing/regneration and the wall of bone spell. Unseen Crafter and Woose Wose can be employed in both this and general tending tasks.

Fourth, we magically boost the growth achieved in these optimal conditions in any way we can. Plant Growth might be able to provide a further boost via enrichment, depending on DM. Even if not, depending on the plants, the overgrowth function might be useful; especially if one can use Wood Shape to then re-shape the overgrown plant into a more sustainable form.

From here on, we enter un-certain territory. If Dark Sun material is allowed, there are some spells that would be further aid. A Rod of Wonder can cause grasses to double in growth; but is naturally unreliable. According to Magic of Faerun p. 43, the mulch from Fey burial mounds may have "magical properties that spur plants to grow". According to DMG II p. 70, there is "fey magic that suffuses the forest" and "keeps the trees and vegetation alive in unusual climates". Lastly, it seems like watering plants with Holy Water, because of the whole positive energy fluff thing.


I think we have a pretty solid program with this. I think the only thing really remaining is the question of what sort of stuff is worth growing. :smallsmile:

EDIT: Minor addendum. The Words of Creation are supposedly able to greatly enhance any process of creation (which surely the growth of plants falls under), and among all the outer planes, it seems like Arborea has the most plant-friendly fluff.

[daremetoidareyo]

page 40 of Silver marches has some herbs and their alchemical uses. There's an herb that gives +4 to heal checks. There's a poison that has unconciousness as a secondary damage.

I'll update this with other plant sources as I find them.

[atemu1234]

If you can get that Positive Energy Elder Evil thing to orbit your plane at a certain distance you can grow everything a lot quicker.

[Ruethgar]

Major Fey 3/Companion Focus Plant Druid 3/Landforged Walker 5/Beast Master 2/Verdant Lord 10

This is assuming you can get Animal Focus and Beast Master to work with Plant Companions will get you 17 Druid casting and a 16th level plant companion plus a Wild Cohort tree if you can manage it. You can save levels with Mystic Ranger 2 instead of Druid 3 and Beast Master 2 and just skip the companion and the high level spells.

AFB, but the same Dragon with the Sovereign Speaker or Savant or whoever that Living Spell class was has some magical plants in it. One I can recall is the Fey Cherry Tree but there were others from each of the elemental planes. A Lilly that makes water, a fern that creates a breeze, a fire blossom that does something significantly less cool and I believe it was a vine that pulls precious metal to the surface or some such. There was also a wish plant but they can't be within miles of one another... Holes of Hiding sound like a good idea right about now.

Edit: You could go Legacy Champion with the saved levels as a Ranger and then pick up a Legacy Stronghold garden with the Called quality for movement. Also the Non-Epic Epic Druid Destiny to Wild Shape into the land.