Vermin Handbook - A list of all vermin in 3.5

[daremetoidareyo]

Bugs, spiders, mites, leeches and crabs. These are the little bugs that so many class features, particularly ACFs and drow related prestige classes, refer to. But they don't really hang out in the same place. So I did my best to fix that. I searched through the following sources for all the vermin.

Maybe you want to vermin wild-shape. Maybe you want a vermin companion. Maybe you are thinking of being an entomathrope. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a)


Core
SRD, Monster Manual 1, DMG, PHB

CORE PLUS
defenders of the faith
complete scoundrel
Lord of Iron Fortress
Races of the Wild
masters of the wild
complete warrior
Heroes of Horror
Races of the Dragon
sword and fist
Draconomicon
Ghostwalk
Shattered Gates of Slaughterguard
song and silence
Dragon Compendium
FrostBurn
stormwrack
Arms and equipment guide
expanded psionics handbook
Fiendish Codex 2
TOB
cityscape
epic level handbook
Fiendish Codex 1
TOM
complete adventurer
Dragon Magic
Expedition to demonweb pits
Book of Exalted Deeds
complete arcane
Drow of the Underdark
Magic item Compendium
Book of Vile Darkness
complete champion
Dungeonscape
Races of Stone
Fiend Folio
complete divine
Magic of Incarnum
Races of Destiny
Libris Mortis
DMG2
Manual of the planes
Weapons of Legacy
Lords of Madness
Enemies and Allies
Miniatures Handbook
Sandstorm
Fortress of the Yuan-ti
complete mage
Monster Manual IV
Monster Manual III
PHB2
Monster Manual II
Planar Handbook
DMG2
Unearthed Arcana

Faerun
Monsters of Faerûn
Lost empires of Faerun
underdark
Expedition to Undermountain
Anauroch The Empire Of Shade
Twilight Tomb
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Mysteries of the Moonsea
Champions of Valor
Unapproachable East
Champions of Ruin
Silver Marches
City of Splendors, Waterdeep
Shining South
Cormyr tearing of the Weave
Shadowdale the scouring of the land
Dragons of Faerun
Serpent Kingdoms
Faiths and Pantheons
Races of Faerun
Heroes of Battle
Power of faerun
Lords of Darkness
magic of faerun
Player’s guide to faerun

Eberron
Faiths of Eberron
Grasp of the emerald claw
secrets of xendric
Voyage of the golden dragon
secrets of sarlona
Eyes of the lich queen
Dragons of eberron
sharn, city of 2 towers
shadows of the last war
explorers handbook
5 nations
magic of eberron
dragonmarked
the forge of war
city of storm reach
eberron campaign setting

Other
Dragonlance Campaign setting


So, Here they are, Every Vermin allowed in the game, Sorted by HD.

Over the next few days/weeks, I will be adding in quick ability summaries and ratings for power per HD. The problem is that I cut and pasted my entire table together, and thus need to transcribe things to give you an overview that works within the rules of fair use.

You will see that I have not included swarms, with the exception of the rot grub swarm. Swarms follow slightly different rules and shall be added in later, when I familiarize myself with more swarm rules. You will also notice that there are two different maggot entries but not a single adult giant fly, or screwfly entries. What the heck wizards?





Name
CR
Size
Type (subtype)
HD
Book


Monstrous Centipede, Small
<1
Small
vermin
0
SRD


Monstrous Centipede, Tiny
<1
Tiny
vermin
0
SRD


Monstrous Scorpion, Tiny
<1
Tiny
vermin
0
SRD


Monstrous Spider, Tiny
<1
Tiny
vermin
0
SRD


Argent Spider, tiny

1
Tiny
Vermin
1
web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030725a)


Spider, Subteranean, Hairy
<1
Fine
vermin
0
MF 79


Ectoplasmic Vermin, Small
1/2
Small
Vermin
1
GW 161


Ectoplasmic Vermin, Tiny
1/3
Tiny
Vermin
1/2
GW 161


Fire Beetle, Giant
<1
Small
vermin
1
SRD


Fulminating Crab
1
Small
vermin
1
Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030523f)


Giant Fly
1/8
Tiny
Vermin
1
Web (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x)


Monstrous Centipede, Medium
<1
Medium
vermin
1
SRD


Monstrous Scorpion, Small
<1
Small
vermin
1
SRD


Monstrous Spider, Small
<1
Small
vermin
1
SRD


Hoard Scarab
1/2
Fine
vermin
1
Dragonomicon


Snow Spider, small
1/2
small
vermin
1
FB


Giant Termite, worker
1/3
Small
Vermin
1
SSt


Monstrous Crab, small
1/2
Small
Vermin
1
SW


Leech, Giant
1/3
small
Vermin
1
SW


Hairy Spider
-
Fine
Vermin
1
Faiths and Pantheons


Wiggling Maggot
1/10
diminutive
Vermin
1
Web (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x)


Ant, Giant, Soldier
2
Medium
vermin
2
SRD


Ant, Giant, Worker
1
Medium
vermin
2
SRD


Bombardier Beetle, Giant
2
Medium
vermin
2
SRD


Monstrous Scorpion, Medium

Medium
vermin
2
SRD


Monstrous Spider, Medium
1
Medium
vermin
2
SRD


Snow spider, medium
1
medium
vermin
2
FB


Giant Maggot
1/2
small
Vermin
2
Und


Giant Whip Spider
1
Medium
Vermin
2
LEoF p. 161


Ectoplasmic Vermin, medium
1
Medium
Vermin
2
GW 161


Bee, Giant
1
Medium
vermin
3
SRD


Monstrous Centipede, Large
1
Large
vermin
3
SRD


Giant Dragonfly
1
Large
vermin
3
AEG


Giant Firefly
1/2
Large
vermin
3
AEG


Giant Termite, Soldier
2
Medium
Vermin
3
SSt


Monstrous Crab, Medium
2
Medium
Vermin
3
SW


Ant, Giant, Queen
2
Large
vermin
4
SRD


Argent Spider, Medium
3
Medium
Vermin
4
Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030725a)


Monstrous Spider, Large
2
Large
vermin
4
SRD


Praying Mantis, Giant
3
Large
vermin
4
SRD


Snow Spider large
2
large
vermin
4
FB


Giant Cockroach
2
medium
Vermin
4
Underdark


Giant Whip Scorpion
2
Large
Vermin
4
LEoF p. 160


Monstrous Scorpion, Large

Large
vermin
5
SRD


Neogi, Great Old Master
6
Huge
verminAberration: updated in LoM
5
MM2 159 LoM p.91


Spider, Subteranean, Sword
5
Large
vermin
5
MF 79


Wasp, Giant
3
Large
vermin
5
SRD


Brine Swimmer
3
Large
Vermin
5
SSt


Argent Spider, Large
5
Large
Vermin
8
WEB (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030725a)


Dire Maggot
2
Small
vermin
6
LMo 95


Knell Beetle, Lesser
5
Medium
vermin
6
MM3 89


Monstrous Centipede, Huge
2
Huge
vermin
6
SRD


Giant Termite, Queen
1
Large
Vermin
6
SSt


Monstrous Crab, Large
4
Large
Vermin
6
SW


Giant Sun Spider
2
Large
Vermin
6
LEoF p. 162


Stag Beetle, Giant
4
Large
vermin
7
SRD


Spitting Spider
5
Large
vermin
7
DOTU


Monstrous crab
3
Large
vermin(aquatic)
7
web-far corners (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a)


Monstrous Spider, Huge
5
Huge
vermin
8
SRD


Giant ant lion
5
Large
Vermin
8
SSt


Monstrous Scorpion, Huge

Huge
vermin
10
SRD


Velvet worm, Giant
5
Huge
Vermin
10
LEoF p. 191


Monstrous Toebiter
7
Large
Vermin
10
web-far corners (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030822a)


Gajusian (Sonic) Crawler

6
Huge
Vermin
10
Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030829a)


Chelicera
6
Medium
vermin
12
MM3 27


Knell Beetle
10
Large
vermin
12
MM3 88


Monstrous Centipede, Gargantuan
6
Gargantuan
vermin
12
SRD


Tangle Terror Spider
8
Medium
vermin
12
DOTU


Rot Grub Swarm
6
Diminutive
vermin(swarm)
12
DS


Monstrous Crab, Huge
7
Huge
Vermin
12
SW


Leechwalker
10
Medium
vermin
13
MM2 135


Widowmaker
10
Large
vermin
13
DOTU


Bonespear
12
Large
vermin(extraplanar)
15
FF 24


Monstrous Spider, Gargantuan
8
Gargantuan
vermin
16
SRD


Argent Spider, Huge
7
Huge
Vermin
16
web


Astral Kraken
16
Gargantuan
vermin(extraplanar)
20
PlH 109


Monstrous Scorpion, Gargantuan

Gargantuan
vermin
20
SRD


Siege Crab
14
Gargantuan
vermin(aquatic)
20
MM3 157


Monstrous Centipede, Colossal
9
Colossal
vermin
24
SRD


Monstrous Crab, gargantuan
10
Gargantuan
Vermin
24
SW


Megapede
20
Colossal
vermin
32
MM2 148


Monstrous Spider, Colossal
11
Colossal
vermin
32
SRD


Siege Crab, Greater
18
Colossal
vermin(aquatic)
32
MM3 157


Argent Spider, Gargantuan
10
Gargantuan
Vermin
32
Web


Century Worm
19
Gargantuan
vermin
40
FF 31


Monstrous Scorpion, Colossal

Colossal
vermin
40
SRD


Monstrous Crab, colossal
13
Colossal
Vermin
48
SW






As it stands, my first impression is that there are couple clear winners and wierders.
Bonespear is fantastic,
Monstrous crabs are king! Seriously, get vermin shape and monster crab all over your enemies.
Sword subterranean spider has a really neat scaling jump attack that might pair well with TOB.
Giant leech is pretty neat if you can find a way to carry murky water with you to attack from.
Leechwalker is also weird as heck.

Other important trends: For those who are considering vermin wildshaping.
Every poison DC scales off of constitution bonus, and most of these bugs have low constitution scores as compared to animals. If you can boost your constitution, your poisons will have a higher DC, and therefor be more useful.

No vermin power keys off of will saves. Most vermin abilities key off fort saves. Which makes you good at wizard slaying, bad at bruiser beating. To compensate, there are a number of vermin forms that come online that allow you to siphon off constitution through ability damage, assuming you have access to multiple vermin. This will depress the fort saves and make them more amenable to poisoning.

Improved grab is great, so you have to bone up on your grappling knowledge.

At every HD there are some good jump, climb, spot, hide, and move silently bonii.

Every locomotion form is represented, including burrowing.

Very few supernatural abilities. No spell like abilities.

Other vermin related stuff:


Epic level handbook
Devastation Vermin


Complete Scoundrel
Gut mites
Torch Bug


DMG2
VESTMENT OF VERMINSHAPE


Ghostwalk
Ectoplasmic vermin


stormwrack
diving spiders p.169


underdark
vermin keeper prestige class


sharn city of 2 towers
rancid beetle swarm


web
vineswarm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030531a), skitterhaunt template (vermin to ooze) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20021123a)



If you can find any web features that highlight vermin, or you know of some great vermin enhancing items, feel free to contribute.

For general swarms, this thread is helpful: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?218793-Swarm-List-help-Needs-more-Swarm!

[daremetoidareyo]

Name
Book
Size
HD
STR
DEX
CON
Movement
Skills


Monstrous
Centipede,
Tiny
SRD
Tiny
0
1
15
10
20, Climb 20
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial
Can use either Str or Dex modifier for Climb checks


Monstrous
Centipede,
Small
SRD
Small
0
5
15
10
30, climb 30
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial
Can use either Str or Dex modifier for Climb checks


Monstrous
Scorpion, Tiny
SRD
Tiny
0
3
10
14
20
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Monstrous
Spider, Tiny
SRD
Tiny
0
3
17
10
20, Climb 10
Webspinner:
Hide: +4 racial , +8 on their webs
Move Silently: +8 racial on their webs
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hunting Spiders:
Hide: +4 racial Jump: +10 racial Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Both: Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Spider,
Subterranean,
Hairy
MF 79
Fine
0
1
14
10

Hide: +4 racial
Jump: +6 racial
Spot: +12 racial


Ectoplasmic vermin, tiny
GW 161
Tiny
0
3
15
10
20, 10 climb



Fire Beetle,
Giant
SRD
Small
1
10
11
11
30
-


Monstrous
Centipede,
Medium
SRD
Medium
1
9
15
10
40, climb 40
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial
Can use either Str or Dex modifier for Climb checks


Monstrous
Scorpion, Small
SRD
Small
1
9
10
14
30
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Monstrous
Spider, Small
SRD
Small
1
7
17
10
30, climb 20
Webspinner:
Hide: +4 racial , +8 on their webs
Move Silently: +8 racial on their webs
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hunting Spiders:
Hide: +4 racial Jump: +10 racial Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Both: Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Hoard Scarab
Drconmcn
Fine
1
1
13
13
20, 20 climb
Listen: +4 Racial
Hide: +4 racial when concealed among 10 or more coins
Climb: +8 racial


Snow Spider,
small
FB
small
1
7
18
11
30, climb 30
Hide: +4 racial
Jump: +20 racial
Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Giant Termite,
worker
SSt
Small
1
8
10
10
30, climb 20
Climb: +8 racial


Monstrous Crab,
small
SW
Small
1
10
11
12
20
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Leech, Giant
SW
small
1
6
12
11
Swim 10
Hide: +4 racial
Swim: +8 racial


Hairy Spider
F&P p183
Fine
1



20, 10 climb
-


Ant, Giant,
Soldier
SRD
Medium
2
14
10
13
50, climb 20
Survival +4 racial ,when tracking by scent
Climb: +8 racial


Ant, Giant,
Worker
SRD
Medium
2
10
10
10
50, climb 20
Survival +4 racial ,when tracking by scent
Climb: +8 racial


Bombardier
Beetle, Giant
SRD
Medium
2
13
10
14
30
-


Monstrous
Scorpion,
Medium
SRD
Medium
2
13
10
14
40
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Monstrous
Spider,
Medium
SRD
Medium
2
11
17
12
30, climb 20
Webspinner:
Hide: +4 racial , +8 on their webs
Move Silently: +8 racial on their webs
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hunting Spiders:
Hide: +4 racial Jump: +10 racial Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Both: Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Snow spider,
medium
FB
medium
2
11
18
13
40, climb 40
Hide: +4 racial
Jump: +20 racial
Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Giant Maggot
Und
small
2
7
13
13
20
-


Giant Whip
Spider
LEoF p 161
Medium
2
13
14
14
40
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Bee, Giant
SRD
Medium
3
11
14
11
20, 80 fly (good)
Spot: +4 racial
Survival: +4 racial on Survival checks to orient themselves


Monstrous
Centipede,
Large
SRD
Large
3
13
15
10
40, climb 40
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial
Can use either Str or Dex modifier for Climb checks


Giant Dragonfly
AEG
Large
3
18
12
13
20, 60 flying (good)
-


Giant Firefly
AEG
Large
3
16
15
14
20, 50 flying (good)
-


Giant Termite,
Soldier
SSt
Medium
3
16
10
13
30, climb 20
Climb: +8 racial


Monstrous
Crab,
Medium
SW
Medium
3
15
11
12
20
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Ant, Giant,
Queen
SRD
Large
4
16
9
13
40
Survival +4 racial ,when tracking by scent
Climb: +8 racial


Monstrous
Spider,
Large
SRD
Large
4
15
17
12
30, climb 20
Webspinner:
Hide: +4 racial , +8 on their webs
Move Silently: +8 racial on their webs
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hunting Spiders:
Hide: +4 racial Jump: +10 racial Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Both: Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Praying
Mantis, Giant
SRD
Large
4
19
8
15
20, 40 flying (poor)
Hide: +4 racial , +12 when surrounded by foliage
Spot: +4 racial


Snow Spider,
large
FB
large
4
15
18
14
40, climb 40
Hide: +4 racial
Jump: +20 racial
Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Giant
Cockroach
Und
medium
4
21
18
16
40, climb 40
Climb: +12 racial
Hide: +10 racial
Move Silently: +6 racial


Giant Whip Scorpion
LEoF p 160
Large
4
15
12
14
50
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Monstrous
Scorpion,
Large
SRD
Large
5
19
10
14
50
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Spider,
Subterranean,
Sword
MF 79
Large
5
18
10
14
20, 20 climb
Hide: +4 racial
Jump: +6 racial
Spot: +12 racial


Wasp, Giant
SRD
Large
5
18
12
14
20, 60 flying (good)
Spot: +8 racial
Survival: +4 racial on Survival checks to orient themselves


Brine
Swimmer
SSt
Large
5
17
16
15
20, 40 swim
Swim: +8 racial


Dire Maggot
LMo p95
Small
6
13
15
12
40, climb 40
-


Knell Beetle,
Lesser
MM3 p89
Medium
6
18
12
18
40, burrow 10
Balance: +4 racial
Listen: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Monstrous
Centipede,
Huge
SRD
Huge
6
17
15
12
40, climb 40
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial
Can use either Str or Dex modifier for Climb checks


Giant Termite,
Queen
SSt
Large
6
8
3
16
5
-


Monstrous
Crab, Large
SW
Large
6
21
11
12
20
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Giant Sun
Spider
LEoF p 162
Large
6
17
15
14
40
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Stag
Beetle,
Giant
SRD
Large
7
23
10
17
20
-


Spitting
Spider
DOTU
Large
7
22
17
18
40, climb 20
Climb: +8 racial
Move Silently: +8 racial
Spot: +8 racial
Jump: +10 racial


Monstrous
crab
web-
far corners
Large
7
22
14
21
40, 30 swim
-


Monstrous
Spider,
Huge
SRD
Huge
8
19
17
14
30, climb 20
Webspinner:
Hide: +4 racial , +8 on their webs
Move Silently: +8 racial on their webs
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hunting Spiders:
Hide: +4 racial Jump: +10 racial Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Both: Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Giant ant lion
SSt
Large
8
19
8
17
20, burrow 20
Hide: +8 racial , rises to +12 when buried in sandy pits
Listen: +4 racial


Monstrous
Scorpion,
Huge
SRD
Huge
10
23
10
16
50
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Velvet
Worm,
Giant
LEoF p 191
Huge
10
22
11
16
20, 10 climb
Listen: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Monstrous
Toebiter
web-
far corners
Large
10
26
13
20
20, swim 40
Hide: +4 racial , +20 when in swamp or marsh crab


Chelicera
MM3 27
Medium
12
14
19
12
30, climb 30
Hide: +8 racial
Listen: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial


Knell Beetle
MM3 88
Large
12
26
10
23
50, burrow 10
Balance: +8 racial
Listen: +8 racial
Spot: +8 racial


Monstrous
Centipede, Gargantuan
SRD
Gargantuan
12
23
15
12
40, climb 40
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial
Can use either Str or Dex modifier for Climb checks


Tangle
Terror
Spider
DOTU
Medium
12
14
19
18
30, climb 30
Climb: +8 racial
Move Silently: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial


Rot Grub
Swarm
DS
Diminutive
12
1
14
10
10, climb 10
Move silently: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial when hiding inside a corpse of at least medium size
Climb +8 racial , using dex instead of strength


Monstrous
Crab, Huge
SW
Huge
12
25
11
14
30
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Leechwalker
MM2 135
Medium
13
18
11
16
30, swim 20
-


Giant Spider, Widowmaker
DOTU
Large
13
20
17
22
30, climb 20
Climb: +8 racial
Move Silently: +8 racial
Spot: +8 racial
Jump: +10 racial


Bonespear
FF 24
Large
15
22
17
19
40
-


Monstrous
Spider,
Gargantuan
SRD
Gargantuan
16
25
17
14
30, 20 climb
Webspinner:
Hide: +4 racial , +8 on their webs
Move Silently: +8 racial on their webs
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hunting Spiders:
Hide: +4 racial Jump: +10 racial Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Both: Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Astral Kraken
PlH 109
Gargantuan
20
34
13
27
fly 60
-


Monstrous
Scorpion,
Gargantuan
SRD
Gargantuan
20
31
10
16
50
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Siege Crab
MM3 157
Gargantuan
20
30
6
21
60, swim 60
Swim: +8 racial


Monstrous
Centipede,
Colossal
SRD
Colossal
24
27
13
12
40, climb 40
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hide: +8 racial
Can use either Str or Dex modifier for Climb checks


Monstrous Crab, gargantuan
SW
Gargantuan
24
33
11
14
30
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Megapede
MM2 p148
Colossal
32
43
7
27
80, burrow 20
-


Monstrous
Spider,
Colossal
SRD
Colossal
32
31
15
14
30, 20 climb
Webspinner:
Hide: +4 racial, +8 on their webs
Move Silently: +8 racial on their webs
Spot: +4 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Hunting Spiders:
Hide: +4 racial Jump: +10 racial Spot: +8 racial
Climb: +8 racial
Both: Can use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks


Siege Crab,
Greater
MM3 p157
Colossal
32
38
6
28
60, swim 60
Swim: +8 racial


Century Worm
FF 31
Gargantuan
40
35
7
22
30, burrow 20, swim 10
Swim: +8 racial


Monstrous
Scorpion,
Colossal
SRD
Colossal
40
35
8
16
50
Climb: +4 racial
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial


Monstrous
Crab, colossal
SW
Colossal
48
37
9
14
40
Hide: +4 racial
Spot: +4 racial




Breakdown by HD: The first 5 HD have a bunch of forms available to a PC. What I have excluded is the advancement category, so you may have access to advanced vermin depending on your DM or game.

Legend:
Excellent
Good
Average
Bad

Notes: tremor sense is assumed to be 60 feet. Webs break DC is 4 higher than the escape artist check. All poison DCs are constitution based. All poison damage is initial and secondary unless specified otherwise. Climb and swim speeds result in +8 bonuses to those checks as well as the ability to take 10.



All have DC 10 poison except hairy subterranean spider which inexplicably has DC 11.

Monstrous Centipede, Tiny

Monstrous Centipede, Small : Good skill set (hide +8, spot +4), small size, poison: 1d2 dex damage, 30 climb speed.

Monstrous Scorpion, Tiny : Too small to grapple, skills nothing special, poison: 1 str damage

Monstrous Spider, Tiny: Good skill set (webspinners: +8 move silently, hunters: +10 jump,+8 spot), poison: 1d2 str, web,

Spider, Subteranean, Hairy: Highest spot check (+12), fine sized. Turns purple if you have access to fine size with minimal investment, and you can access that spot check.

Ectoplasmic Vermin, Tiny: Fast healing 1, daylight sensitivity, terrible poison, no skills, can be manipulated as ectoplasm. Get the Medium version.


Fire Beetle, Giant: Shed light in 10', no new forms of movement.

Monstrous Centipede, Medium: 40', 40' climb, Poison (Ex): DC 10. 1d3 dex damage, good skills.

Monstrous Scorpion, Small: Constrict (Ex): automatic claw damage on a successful grapple check. Improved Grab (Ex): Claw attack. A monstrous scorpion can use either its Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier for grapple checks, whichever is better. Poison (Ex): DC 12, 1d2 Con damage. At small size, this is meh.

Monstrous Spider, Small: 30'/20 climb,Poison (Ex): DC 10, 1d3 Str damage. Web (Ex): Escape Artist check (DC10) Each 5-foot section has 4 HP, Tremorsense.

Hoard Scarab: Burrow is a good ability, do 1d2 con damage a round if enemy doesn't pass a DC 11 REF save after you bite them. Fine size is a hassle. Skills meh.

Snow Spider, small: 30, 30 climb speed, +8 spot, +20 jump, jump charge for +4 to hit, poison: DC 10; 1d3 dex/paralysis, paralysis has no listed duration. Tremorsense.

Giant Termite, worker: Bad stats, climb speed.

Monstrous Crab, small: Constrict (Ex): 2x claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check. Improved Grab (Ex): Claw; Monstrous crabs have a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks. Amphibious (ex): Can survive indefinitely on land, no swim speed. Boost this guys strength, and he's worth something to you. Otherwise, ignore.

Leech, Giant: 30 swim speed, In murky water at least 2 feet deep, this is blue. Anesthetize, Attach and Blood Drain are all good if you have a good hide score and can access dirty water. Disease (EX): bite: DC 15 Fort save or contact red ache (p. 292 of DMG). If you can summon dirty water, this becomes quite powerful.

Hairy Spider: poorly statted, use the one above.


Ant, Giant, Soldier: 50' land, 20' climb, scent and track, Access to ex acid in your stinger for providing weak acid for your flask rogue, Improved grab: bite. Good utility form. Use for tracking and scouting.

Ant, Giant, Worker: 50'land, 20'climb, scent and track, no combat utility.

Bombardier Beetle, Giant: 1/round:Acid Spray (ex): 10’ cone, DC 13 (con based), 1d4+2 acid damage. It appears that the con score only adds +2 to the DC, so you may be able to argue that the DC calculation for the acid spray is 10+1/2hd+con modifier. Not immune to its own acid. Melt your troubles away but don't step in the puddle. Supply your team rogue with acid. No attack roll necessary. Good low level vermin for mook slayin or door melting.

Monstrous Scorpion, Medium: Poison (Ex): DC 13, 1d3 Con damage. Improved grab is better now that the scorpion is medium sized.

Monstrous Spider, Medium: Poison (Ex): bite: DC 12, 1d4 Str damage. Web (Ex): Escape Artist check (DC12) Each 5-foot section has 6 HP. Tremorsense. Spider is starting to be consistent. Use the webs to your advantage. No reason to use hunting spider, the snow spider can take care of all your needs better.

Snow spider, medium: 40'land, 40'climb, massive jump bonus, +8 spot. Poison (Ex): bite. DC 12 1d4 dex/paralysis. Tremorsense. Charging bonus. Ambush and retreat up walls.

Giant Maggot: No attack to speak of, 20 movement. Only use this vermin to grow a giant fly to ride.

Giant Whip Spider: 40'land, improved grab: claw, squeeze does 2X claw damage + makes your bite a primary attack while grappling. If you optimized grappling feats, this becomes Blue.


Bee, Giant: 20' land, 80' fly (good). Poison (ex): stinger DC 11, 1d4 con. "The bee then dies." Great for quick fly speed, terrible for killing itself. If you polymorph someone else into a giant bee, and then fling yourself at their stinger...anyways, don't use this vermin unless you can handle the DM killing it off by sending a kamikaze mook at the stinger. Can serve as a mount
Monstrous Centipede, Large: 40' land, climb 40'. Poison (Ex): DC 11. 1d4 dex damage. Decent Skills.

Giant Dragonfly: 20' land, 60' flying (good). The safest flight option of a decent speed. Consider arguing for a perfect maneuverability and point-out that IRL dragonflies are one of the few flyers that can fly backwards. Can serve as a mount.

Giant Firefly: 20' land, 50' flying (good). You can shed light in 10'. Good for night searching. Can serve as a mount.

Giant Termite, Soldier: 30' land, climb 20. Improved grab: bite. Constrict: automatic bite damage during grapple. Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 14, initial damage 1d4 acid, secondary damage paralysis 1d4 rounds. Not a bad vermin, poison with paralysis as secondary damage is good.

Monstrous Crab, Medium: 20' land, Improved Grab: claw. Constrict: 2 x (claw + strength) damage.


Giant Ant, Queen: 40' land, improved grab: bite (2d6).

Monstrous Spider, Large: Poison (Ex): bite (1d8): DC 13, 1d6 Str damage. Web (Ex): Escape Artist check (DC13) Each 5-foot section has 12 HP. Tremorsense. Good skills.

Praying Mantis, Giant: 20' land, 40' flying (poor), improved grab: claw(1d8) - makes bite(1d6) primary attack.+12 hide in foliage.

Snow Spider, Large: 40' land, 40' climb. Leap (Ex): If snow spider can jump on its prey by making a Jump check as part of its movement, it can make a charge attack with a +4 attack bonus instead of the normal +2. Poison (Ex): bite. DC 14; 1d6 dex/paralysis. Tremorsense. Again, a strong option.

Giant Cockroach: 40' land, 40' climb. Stench (Ex): Every creature (except cockroaches) within 30 feet of the giant cockroach must make a DC 15 Fort save (The save DC is Con-based) or be nauseated for 1d4 rounds. Whether or not the save is successful, the creature cannot be affected again by any giant cockroach’s stench for 1 hour. Tremorsense. Wierdly enough, great move silently(+6) and hide (+10) bonuses...if you only need to sneak up on noseless things.

Giant Whip Scorpion: Improved Grab (ex): Claw (1d4+1); opponent must be one size category Smaller than itself. Squeeze (Ex): Automatically deals damage with both claws and can makes bite (1d6) primary attack. Poison spray (ex): 3/day 20’ diameter spread of noxious poison (fort save DC 14, initial and secondary damage 1d4 dex) the save DC is Constitution Based. Good combat Form, if you grab something, dump all three sprays during the combat.

Monstrous Scorpion, Large: 50' land,Constrict (Ex): CLAW(1d6) Improved Grab (Ex): Claw: A monstrous scorpion can use either its Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier for grapple checks, whichever is better. Poison (Ex): sting, DC 14, 1d4 Con damage.

Neogi, Great Old Master: This is a Vermin in MM2 with an ex ability to generate a bunch of tiny neogi, 2d4 at a time, as both a standard action and as a free action reaction to taking damage. It was updated in LoM to be an aberration. But maybe you don't allow that book. Get that book banned by complaining about mindsight, and then start the neogi-ocalypse as a verminshape druid. This turns purple if you can get the vermin version.

Spider, Subteranean, Sword: 20' land, 20' climb. Impalement (ex): On a single jump+attack roll with legs (1d6) the opponent takes damage from three leg blades is size small or smaller, 4 blades if medium size, 5 blades if large, 6 if huge, all eight if gargantuan or larger. If the spider descends more than 20 feet to make this attack, it adds +1 point of damage to each leg. Poison (ex): bite (1d8): fort save (DC 16) or be injected with 1d6 str damage poison. This pairs very well with leap attack and or battle jump. Also, +6 racial bonus to jump and +12 to spot.

Wasp, Giant: Your absolute best utility flight form.20' land, 60' flying (good). Poison (Ex): Sting (1d6) Injury, Fortitude DC 14, 1d6 Dex. +4 to survival checks for orientation.

Brine Swimmer: 20' land, 40' swim. Improved Grab (Ex): Bite (1d6). If hold is established, rake. Rake (Ex): Six legs, attack bonus +5 melee, damage 1d4+1. Snap Turn (Ex): A brine swimmer can change direction quickly once each round as a free action. It can turn 180 degrees without expending any of its swim speed and can even use the run action after executing such a turn. This is your best swimmer. It appears that the rake damage either doesn't add a strength bonus or the +1 is from 1/2 str modifier.


Dire Maggot: 40' land, climb 40'. Paralytic Saliva (Ex): Bite (1d8); DC 14 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based. Not very good.

Knell Beetle, Lesser: 40' land, 10' burrow. Rend (Ex): If a knell beetle hits with both claw (1d10) attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically does an additional 2d10+6 points of damage. Screech (Su): 1/day, a lesser knell beetle can emit a sonic energy cone is 20 feet long, and creatures within take 5d6 points of sonic damage (Reflex DC 17 half). The save DC is Constitution-based. Shake the Earth (Ex): All creature within 5 feet of a knell beetle when it activates this ability must make a DC 17 reflex save or fall prone. The save DC is Strength-based. Trample: Reflex half DC 17. The save DC is Strength-based. Sonic Healing (Su): heal 1 point per 3 points of sonic damage dealt.

Monstrous Centipede, Huge: Poison (Ex): DC 14. 1d6 dex

Giant Termite, Queen: Unless you got a thing for termite drones, don't do it.

Monstrous Crab, Large: Constrict (Ex): A monstrous crab deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check. Improved Grab (Ex): Claw (1d8); +4 racial bonus on grapple checks. amphibious. Strength, AC, grapple size bonuses are finally high enough to make a difference.

Giant Sun Spider: 40' land. Improved Grab (ex): Claw (1d4): opponent must be at least one size category Smaller than itself Squeeze (Ex): grappled opponents take damage with both claws, bite (2d6) becomes primary.


Stag Beetle, Giant: Bite 4d6. Trample: Reflex half DC 19. The save DC is Strength-based
Spitting Spider: 40' land, 20' climb. Tremorsense. Pounce (Ex) If a spitting spider charges, it can make a full attack. Spit Poison (Ex) A spitting spider can spit its venom up to 30 feet as a standard action. This is a ranged touch attack with no range increment. poison (ex) (DC 17, 1d6 Dex/2d6 Dex). Good hunter.

Monstrous crab: 40' land, 30' swim. That damn crab. Still useful when you have 7 HD.
Monstrous Spider, Huge: By now, webs are the most useful ability of this thing. The poison is potent, but it needs to land on an unbuffed fort save, if the enemy isn't outright immune to poison.

Giant ant lion: If you can get your DM to give you and idea of how long it takes to dig your pit, this form can be useful in sandy environs.


Monstrous Scorpion, Huge: At this point, Size increases benefit scorpion the most of the core bland flavored vermin. Again, a monstrous scorpion with a buffed con score and some grappling feats is super potent. It's poison debuffs your enemy's ability to resist poison. Grab and sting and sting and sting. Constrict (Ex): Claw (1d8) Improved Grab (Ex): Claw. A monstrous scorpion can use either its Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier for grapple checks, whichever is better. Poison (Ex): sting 2d4, DC 18, 1d6 Con damage.

Velvet worm, Giant: 20' land, 10' climb. Glue Strand (ex): A giant velvet worm can shoot a stream of quick drying glue up to 100 feet as a ranged touch attack. Any creature struck by a glue strand is entangled for 2d4 rounds and must make a DC 18 Reflex save or be stuck to the ground unable to move. Flyers make DC 15 save or fall. Poison (ex): Bite, Fortitude DC 18, Initial and Secondary damage 1d4 Con. Tremorsense. Shame about the movement speed, but this guy is one of the game's best non magical anti-flying tools. Unfortunately, you need to figure out what the heck they were doing with the BAB of the glue strand attack.

Monstrous Toebiter: 20' land, swim 40'. +20 to hide in swamps and marshes. This synergizes well with giant leech and a diversion + fast wildshape. Blood Drain (Ex): 1d4 points of temporary Constitution damage in any round when it begins its turn attached to a living victim. Improved Grab (Ex): If both claw (1d6) attacks on opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself deal normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. A hold automatically hits with a bite (1d8). Toebiter has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use its claws to hold the opponent @ -20 penalty on grapple check, to not be considered grappled. Each successful grapple check made in successive rounds automatically deals bite damage plus poison. Poison (Ex): bite (Fortitude save DC 20) 1d6 points Str damage.


Chelicera:Ok, not very good unless you're wrestling a non-martial. 30' land/ 30' climb. Blood Drain (Ex): 1d4 Constitution drain each round that it makes a successful grapple check after establishing a pin. Improved Grab (Ex): Claw: A chelicera has a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks and uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier when grappling. Mimicry (Ex): A chelicera can repeat any noise it hears as a free action. This ability works much like ghost sound (Will DC 17 disbelief), except that the sound is always centered on the chelicera itself. The creature’s favorite tactic is to reproduce garbled or faint speech, causing the potential prey to move closer for a better listen. The save DC is Charisma-based. You already have access to better bloodletters.

Knell Beetle: 50, burrow 10'. Useful form.

Monstrous Centipede, Gargantuan

Tangle Terror Spider: 30'/30climb. A great form. DC 20 fort save poison on webs that cause confusion for 12 rounds. Harvest that hallucinogenic material! 8 web blasts per day. Straight up immune to webs.

Monstrous Crab, Huge: Still ok. Grappling combat is now nullified by freedom of movement.


Leechwalker: 30'land, 20'swim. All-Around Vision(Ex): Can't be Flanked. Immunities: 1/2 damage from bludgeoning. immune to ability damage drain, subual damage and massive damage death. Wounding (Ex): 3 points per wound caused by rake attack. Stacks with self. Heal DC 10 to fix. Improved Grab: Tentacle rake (1d8), if one hits, can initiate free action grapple and blooddrink same round. Blood Drink (Ex): 2d4 points of Constitution drain. Constitution drain + wounding is a tough combo, especially on a compromised enemy (glue strands, confusion, webs).

Giant Spider, Widowmaker: 30' land, climb 20'. Blood Drain (Ex) 1d4 points of Constitution damage each round a pin is maintained. This ability does not affect elementals, plants, or creatures that lack a Constitution score. Improved Grab (Ex) To use this ability, a widowmaker must hit an opponent of any size with a bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple, it establishes a hold and can pin the opponent. It can use its blood drain ability against a pinned creature. Steed, can be treated as an animal with an intelligence of 3. Not sure how to use that...Maybe the party ranger can push you to do a trick if you are dominated??? Good skills.


Bonespear 15HD: Best vermin form. The only one worth taking. The shame is that you can't get this until 15th level, when it only is useful against weaker enemies. If you are combat powered, this is your final power up, and level 20 is going to be a difficult slog. Great as companions or trained mounts.

Monstrous Spider, Gargantuan 16HD: Skills utility has dropped, particularly in the context of size and level. A slightly bigger bite damage die and slightly increased Poison or web break DC doesn't make this option get better.

Astral Kraken 20HD: fly 60. Improved grab and two supernatural abilities that are good for tying up astral travelers and draining their life. Not a worthwhile investment. Wait...let me check damage output...4 tentacles @ 2d6 and bite at 2d10. I reckon that you would get more utility out of advancing a bonespear...

Monstrous Scorpion, Gargantuan 20HD: Not good compared to actually good 20HD creatures. Against 12HD creatures, this thing is awesome.

Siege Crab 20HD: Put your allies in your tummy, then teleport. Trained siege crabs would be great invasion forces for an army. Deliver your casters and glass cannons directly behind enemy lines. Trample and DR 15/adamantine are good. This makes for a good steed.


Monstrous Centipede, Colossal 24HD:

Monstrous Crab, gargantuan 24 HD: Damage output ok. Not great.

Megapede 32HD: 80' land, burrow 20', Tremorsense 120', DC 44 poison (2d6 points of Constitution damage and 1d4 points of Dexterity drain).

Monstrous Spider, Colossal 32HD:

Siege Crab, Greater 32HD: Use them for sieges.
Century Worm 40HD: 30' land, burrow 20', swim 10', swallow whole. Eh.

Monstrous Scorpion, Colossal 40HD:

Monstrous Crab, colossal 48HD:

[eggynack]

I do like piles of vermin. Only issue I can see is that the great old master neogi is actually an aberration rather than a vermin. Yes, it's listed as a vermin in the MM II, but Lords of Madness updated it on page 91, and I think it wins the fight due to its nature as a 3.5 source.

[daremetoidareyo]

I do like piles of vermin. Only issue I can see is that the great old master neogi is actually an aberration rather than a vermin. Yes, it's listed as a vermin in the MM II, but Lords of Madness updated it on page 91, and I think it wins the fight due to its nature as a 3.5 source.

Many thanks to the resident druidmaester. I'll update that

[Zaq]

It's not really a creature (it's not even exactly a template), but Fang of Lolth 10 (Song and Silence) gives a character the [Vermin] type without making them mindless. Not really something you can summon or polymorph into, but perhaps it's worth mentioning? Definitely a different breed than the rest of the stuff on the list, of course.

[daremetoidareyo]

It's not really a creature (it's not even exactly a template), but Fang of Lolth 10 (Song and Silence) gives a character the [Vermin] type without making them mindless. Not really something you can summon or polymorph into, but perhaps it's worth mentioning? Definitely a different breed than the rest of the stuff on the list, of course.

Thanks. I'll add it to the rubric later. Actually this is quite helpful because I've been wondering if a verminshaped druid would be immune to mind affecting despite having an intelligence score. And the Fang of lolth sets a precedent.

Right now I'm going through the abilities of each vermin entry to develop a reason to vermin shape at all. Besides large crabs. It looks like a vermin shape build would probably be a grappler who switches from blood drain attacks to poison attacks. Filter off con points so they'll fail poison checks. Also, there is a role for a roguish type druid who uses those racial bonii to climb, move silently, hide, climb, and spot. At least until about 10th level or so.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Right now I'm going through the abilities of each vermin entry to develop a reason to vermin shape at all. Besides large crabs. It looks like a vermin shape build would probably be a grappler who switches from blood drain attacks to poison attacks. Filter off con points so they'll fail poison checks. Also, there is a role for a roguish type druid who uses those racial bonii to climb, move silently, hide, climb, and spot. At least until about 10th level or so.

There isn't really a good one. The problem is that the only way to reasonably get vermin shape is the vestment, and by the time you can afford that it's way past the prime for vermin shapes.
All the other ways either lose animal forms, come to late or give up size progression.

The City-Shape variant could be useful if you're very caster-focused and don't get access to Sandstorm, but it's still a big step down from normal WS.
You get the ability to change into vermin at 5th and, at 12th level, into swarms. The problem is that you give up plant shape (can get around that with Enhance Wildshape) and size progression - you'll never shift into huge forms, and even getting large has to wait until level 15, so any offensive potential from WS is pretty much crippled and you lose out on Dire Tortoise form (among a ton of other utility forms).
I don't think there are any vermin, animal or plant-based swarms that make up for that.

Even MoMF only gets vermin at level 5. By that time he already has animals, humanoids, giants, monstrous humanoids and fey, which vermin forms really can't compete with.

[eggynack]

There isn't really a good one. The problem is that the only way to reasonably get vermin shape is the vestment, and by the time you can afford that it's way past the prime for vermin shapes.
Other problem with the vestment is that it seemingly only gives monstrous vermin forms, which is highly limiting.


The City-Shape variant could be useful if you're very caster-focused and don't get access to Sandstorm, but it's still a big step down from normal WS.
Speaking of sandstorm, I'm not really sure what the problem with wasteland druid is for this. Sure, you need a broad definition of "waste vermin", but it costs relatively little wild shape and comes relatively early. Sure, the animal companion is made somewhat worse, but it's a better deal than most despite that.

Anyway, yeah, there's a reason I never went into too much depth on vermin forms. Most of the forms are pretty low impact, and the associated cost isn't trivial. If you just had one thing or the other, low impact or high cost, then that'd be one thing, but your naturally gained forms are usually going to be better than vermin forms, to say nothing of the forms you can get if you branch out. Vermin can barely compete with animals, by which I mean they really can't compete with them, and you're lucky if you can pick up some minor utility that is comparable. The bonespear is nice and all, but this is 15th level. Dire tortoise is better in general, and plant forms offer some pretty directly comparable utility. The argument for vermin is just a difficult one to make.

Edit: Separately, just noticed the verminvine for what may be the first time, and that form is actually interesting. What is up with that verminbond ability? Like, you're naturally attractive to vermin, and that's pretty clear cut, but the other half is weird. As a PC, can you be encountered? If you can be, then does that mean that you sometimes just have giant ants hanging around? That's kinda awesome, especially cause the weirdly summoned ants will probably keep hanging around for a bit. This ability clearly wasn't intended for PC use, but that's just about my favorite kind of ability anyway.

[daremetoidareyo]

There isn't really a good one. The problem is that the only way to reasonably get vermin shape is the vestment, and by the time you can afford that it's way past the prime for vermin shapes.
All the other ways either lose animal forms, come to late or give up size progression.

The City-Shape variant could be useful if you're very caster-focused and don't get access to Sandstorm, but it's still a big step down from normal WS.
You get the ability to change into vermin at 5th and, at 12th level, into swarms. The problem is that you give up plant shape (can get around that with Enhance Wildshape) and size progression - you'll never shift into huge forms, and even getting large has to wait until level 15, so any offensive potential from WS is pretty much crippled and you lose out on Dire Tortoise form (among a ton of other utility forms).
I don't think there are any vermin, animal or plant-based swarms that make up for that.

Even MoMF only gets vermin at level 5. By that time he already has animals, humanoids, giants, monstrous humanoids and fey, which vermin forms really can't compete with.

Yeah, I see that you lose a lot of power by restricting yourself to vermin. But there is utility to be found here. Vermin are definitely most powerful during the first 10 levels, and it is size restrictions that really bone you for wildshaping the most utility out of your situation. But you can act as a potent debuffer, and anti flight tool. So few of the abilities require any supernatural or spell like stuff, so they are great for low magic campaigns. I definitely think the reason that vermin wild shape is so stringently guarded has everything to do with access to poison and acid.

We'll play with a few builds after I finish going through the abilities and evaluating the abilities holistically. But if your dm is cool with you taking feats that will only be relevant while wildshaped, there are some DC increasing feats as well as some poison spitting in a cone type feats that might see some utility here.

I agree that you should definitely focus on casting as a druid, as buffs of any sort will definitely help. +4 to con is a +2 modifier to poison. Venomfire for the win, all forms with poison attacks become monstrous if you have access to venomfire.

[tsj]

What about vermin that are created by
combining different types of vermin..?

Such as the arachyura
- A crab like spider? (Descent)
http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Arachyura

Or the bane spider that spits poison.

Or a lava beetle :)

I wonder if a druid could
Wildshape in to something that is
half spider and half crab?


I'm sure there are other examples of
different vermin combinations

[sleepyphoenixx]

Speaking of sandstorm, I'm not really sure what the problem with wasteland druid is for this. Sure, you need a broad definition of "waste vermin", but it costs relatively little wild shape and comes relatively early. Sure, the animal companion is made somewhat worse, but it's a better deal than most despite that.
The problem is that you only get vermin forms at 10th level, when they're already mostly obsolete. Even if your DM allows it to just grant vermin forms in general it's still not worth losing a wildshape use.

Yeah, I see that you lose a lot of power by restricting yourself to vermin. But there is utility to be found here. Vermin are definitely most powerful during the first 10 levels, and it is size restrictions that really bone you for wildshaping the most utility out of your situation. But you can act as a potent debuffer, and anti flight tool. So few of the abilities require any supernatural or spell like stuff, so they are great for low magic campaigns. I definitely think the reason that vermin wild shape is so stringently guarded has everything to do with access to poison and acid.

We'll play with a few builds after I finish going through the abilities and evaluating the abilities holistically. But if your dm is cool with you taking feats that will only be relevant while wildshaped, there are some DC increasing feats as well as some poison spitting in a cone type feats that might see some utility here.

I agree that you should definitely focus on casting as a druid, as buffs of any sort will definitely help. +4 to con is a +2 modifier to poison. Venomfire for the win, all forms with poison attacks become monstrous if you have access to venomfire.

Animals grant poison too, and they usually have better stats to go with it.
Using spiderform to shoot webs may be nifty at low levels, but it's not worth giving up animal forms or anything above medium size before level 15, and huge size only with Megalodon Empowerment.

The one thing that makes City-Shape actually stand out is the swarm forms. Sure, a few vermin are useful at low levels (and it's the only option that grants them at 5 without losing animals), but overall they're not all that impressive, with the possible exception of the Sword Spider - 9 attacks at level 5 is pretty nasty - but they're large.
You can get around that by playing a large race and taking Proportionate Wild Shape (MotW), but you'll have to delay natural spell or get a bonus feat somehow.

If your DM rules that you actually get swarm immunities (you don't get subtypes by RAW) that immunity to weapons is quite good for a caster.
A swarms attack is also automatic, so you can cast, move into your enemies space and get the swarm attack in the same round. Some of those can get some pretty neat rider effects, and all of them come with a chance for nausea and automatically force casters to make a pretty hard concentration check which is pretty good.
All that can make up for large forms if you spend most combat turns casting anyway.

I've played a swarm druid for a one-shot once, and it worked out pretty well. It was fun too. But i wouldn't pick the ACF if i expected to reach level 15.

[daremetoidareyo]

The problem is that you only get vermin forms at 10th level, when they're already mostly obsolete. Even if your DM allows it to just grant vermin forms in general it's still not worth losing a wildshape use.

Animals grant poison too, and they usually have better stats to go with it.
Using spiderform to shoot webs may be nifty at low levels, but it's not worth giving up animal forms or anything above medium size before level 15, and huge size only with Megalodon Empowerment.

The one thing that makes City-Shape actually stand out is the swarm forms. Sure, a few vermin are useful at low levels (and it's the only option that grants them at 5 without losing animals), but overall they're not all that impressive, with the possible exception of the Sword Spider - 9 attacks at level 5 is pretty nasty - but they're large.
You can get around that by playing a large race and taking Proportionate Wild Shape (MotW), but you'll have to delay natural spell or get a bonus feat somehow.

If your DM rules that you actually get swarm immunities (you don't get subtypes by RAW) that immunity to weapons is quite good for a caster.
A swarms attack is also automatic, so you can cast, move into your enemies space and get the swarm attack in the same round. Some of those can get some pretty neat rider effects, and all of them come with a chance for nausea and automatically force casters to make a pretty hard concentration check which is pretty good.
All that can make up for large forms if you spend most combat turns casting anyway.

I've played a swarm druid for a one-shot once, and it worked out pretty well. It was fun too. But i wouldn't pick the ACF if i expected to reach level 15.

I'm doing swarms after I finish up the Vermin Write-up. The utility of the guide is not harmed by the unoptimal nature of the vermin wildshape druid. The guide will help folks looking for tauric or symbiotic templated builds. Or perhaps choosing creatures for a vermin themed animal trainer. Or a cleric with the ability to rebuke vermin.

As it stands, I'm seeing the possibility of building a druid build based off this that has battle jumping and grappling feats, The ACF that gives you rage (to boost that con score yo!), and so forth. It won't be king of the druids, but it would be a blast. Especially in the mid levels (6-12).

Another build could focus on spit poison and spells paired with high speed can make for a great scout. Kite your opponents and run/climb until secondary damage becomes a real issue. Another build would focus on becoming fine vermin, which opens up some weird stuff, especially if you knab aberration wildshape and access to supernatural abilities of forms to become a symbiont.

Knell beetles would be interesting to build around. With their ability to heal sonic damage and the ability for them to be compelled to work together.

It's not cone of cold chaining, but the index has utility, especially while we're mucking about with the other contests on the site.

[ShurikVch]

You will also notice that there are two different maggot entries but not a single adult giant fly, or screwfly entries. What the heck wizards?There it is, (along with one more maggot) (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x)
Also:
Argent Spider (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030725a)
Crystal Beetle (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20030516a)
Fulminating Crab (Zap Crab) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030523f)
Gajusian (Sonic) Crawler (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030829a)
Leech Swarm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/bs/20040926a)
Shimmer Swarm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20031010a)

Do you need stuff from magazines?
3rd party (Kingdoms of Kalamar/Ravenloft/Legend of the Five Rings/Tome of Horrors/Warcraft the RPG)?
Diablo II tabletop (it was published by WotC, thus technically a 1st-party)?

[daremetoidareyo]

There it is, (along with one more maggot) (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x)
Also:
Argent Spider (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030725a)
Crystal Beetle (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20030516a)
Fulminating Crab (Zap Crab) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030523f)
Gajusian (Sonic) Crawler (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030829a)
Leech Swarm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/bs/20040926a)
Shimmer Swarm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20031010a)

Do you need stuff from magazines?
3rd party (Kingdoms of Kalamar/Ravenloft/Legend of the Five Rings/Tome of Horrors/Warcraft the RPG)?
Diablo II tabletop (it was published by WotC, thus technically a 1st-party)?

Superb! thanks for the web sources that I didn't know existed. I'll integrate those over the next few days.

I do not have expedition to castle ravenloft, and thus, cannot access any of the info. Of all the suggested help, this one is the one of most interest to me and for the uses of the optimization hub here at giantitp.

I personally have no need for dragon magazine material, but for curatorial sake, I'll gladly include references to dragon magazine material for others.

Again, thanks for the leg work.

Also, I made some poor formatting decisions when I made this here post. If I plan on growing a swarm subsection as well as some build conjecture, I'm gonna need some more reserved posts. So my plan is to rename this thread as the discussion thread. And after a bit more coalescence of information, repost a new Vermin Desk Reference.

[ShurikVch]

Magazines

Dragon
#317: Jungle Spider - Medium, 10 HD, CR 7
#321: Giant Crayfish - Large, (aquatic), 4 HD, CR 3
#321: Giant Tick - Small, 3 HD, CR 2
#343: Wormswarm - Diminutive, 12 HD, CR 10
#355: Giant Dragonfly - Large, 4 HD, CR 2
#355: Giant Slug - Huge, 12 HD, CR 7

Dungeon
#82: Giant Leech - Small, 1 HD, CR ½
#84: Large Monstrous Redspotted Centipede - Large, 3 HD, CR 1 ½
#92: Hive Spider Drone - Tiny, ½ HD, CR 1/6
#110: Hurrum, Speckled - Tiny, ½ HD, CR 1/6
#110: Mulworm - Diminutive, 1/4 HD, CR 1/6
#130: Wormswarm - Diminutive, (swarm), 12 HD, CR 10
#138: Hastedeath Spider - Diminutive, (swarm), 10 HD, CR 10
#139: Rhagodessa - Medium, 4 HD, CR 2
#150: Oil Beetle - Small, 3 HD, CR 2

Living Greyhawk Journal
#3: Amedian Gutworm, Larva - Small, 1 HD, CR ½
#3: Amedian Gutworm, Adult - Medium, 3 HD, CR 2
#5: Living Crossbow - Tiny, ½ HD, CR 1/4
#5: Phalanx Vermin - Medium, 2 HD, CR 1

Knowledge Arcana
#6: Ember Spawn - Fine, (fire), 1/4 HD, CR 1

[daremetoidareyo]

I have a handfull of edits that I need to make on this badboy, and those should occur over the next few weeks.

But, I definitely have a wildshape based focus on this, and I have to edit that out in favor of also considering summons, handle animal, and templates. A vermin trainer wouldn't be all that bad...I'll get around to it.

Also, I still need to add more of the web content, as it introduces the first spell like abilities, actually, psi like abilities, which should make for better summons/animal handling options.

After that, I need to go back through and add the swarms. (Maybe there is some utility for a swarm based caster to enjoy this here reference also)

[Belzyk]

You forgot elven skum on the list *puts on flamer suit*

[JyP]

I'm sure there are other examples of different vermin combinations
Insectile Creature template in Savage Species : for humanoids/monstrous humanoids/giants, grants superfluous limbs, chitine natural armor, additional eyes and tremorsense. Alas, type changes to aberration, but fits in the theme otherwise.

[daremetoidareyo]

Insectile Creature template in Savage Species : for humanoids/monstrous humanoids/giants, grants superfluous limbs, chitine natural armor, additional eyes and tremorsense. Alas, type changes to aberration, but fits in the theme otherwise.

Yeah, The more I looked, the more that I noticed that the best vermin themed creatures are all actually aberrations. From the psionic beasties to all of the cool insect human killers in the splats. If it was powerful, it was an aberration instead of a vermin. What this little project does do is highlight the superiority of aberration wildshape.

[daremetoidareyo]

Hairy Spider [MoF]: They're given a level adjustment in Player's Guide to Faerun Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040313a). Yes, Hairy Spider is a playable non-ability Intelligence Vermin. They have no listed advancement and no Intelligence-score so I have no clue how you should go about it, but there you go.



I'm fond of making them into an Ooze via that one WE template I don't remember the name of (skitterhaunt?), applying that one (Dungeonscape?) template that gives Oozes intelligence, and then applying a template from the same Dragon article that gave us magic-blooded (arctic-blooded, I think?) to increase the Intelligence up to playable 3+ levels.

I'm not aware of any way to actually give it intelligence while remaining a Vermin, though, at least not without massive amounts of LA.

Also, I'm not aware of any templates that change advancement except for IIRC the Dracolich.


Fiendish or Celestial give it playable Int, but the LA sucks.


The same book also says they can be familiars. Familiars keep all the base creature's statistics unless specified otherwise. Nowhere is becoming a familiar said to change your LA. Ergo, a hairy spider familiar is a valid PC.

Tome of Blood happens to include some never-updated rules on familiars of death masters: they keep their sentience and personality, but are treated as if their master was two levels lower. That's not particularly deliberating.

Hell, you could have your master be a 20th-level hexblade with Combat Familiar and gain some major bonuses.

There you have it, a way to be a vermin PC

[Wacky89]

you're missing Siege Beetle from MM:V.
The only reason i remember that one is because i occasionally use it on my momf characters.
Dunno if there is anymore vermin in that book.