Hearthstone 15: The Doctor has Left the Building.

[Temotei]

I just don't like it when warlocks and hunters emote sorry at me. But I hate both classes, so.

Actually, Alleria saying it isn't bad. Just Rexxar.

The only time I emote sorry is if RNG goes really badly for my opponent. If it goes really well I emote greetings.

[The Glyphstone]

I only ever 'Sorry' in response to their 'Oops'. If they think something was bad, I'll agree with them, even if I don't see where they screwed up.

[Grytorm]

Yeah, I guess I am probably a bit of a jerk to my opponents. Sorry about that. Sometimes though I do run into people who seem to enjoy the banter. That is always nice when it does happen.

[AgentPaper]

I really do wish they had text chat in Hearthstone. Have it be alongside emotes, and have an option to turn if off by default if need be, but seriously, being able to talk to people is a good thing and helps foster a community based around the game.

[Rodin]

I did just have an Arena Paladin emote Sorry at me after he played a Mysterious Challenger on turn 6 and got 4 secrets. I'm thinking that one was genuine, anyone would feel dirty at doing that. Didn't stop him from following that up with back to back Murloc Knights, mind.

For myself, I tend to only Sorry at people after something random doesn't go their way.

[Mando Knight]

In case you thought your Murloc Knight deck didn't pollute the Anyfin pool enough, or just hate hearing "Reporting for Duty" but still have to fight with "Honor", have a Paladin Epic courtesy of Firebat. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMXN96vc0Ug)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce7cQYgWsAItRd2.png

Vilefin Inquisitor

1 Mana 1/3 Epic Paladin Minion

Battlecry: Your Hero Power becomes 'Summon a 1/1 Murloc.'

Also, in /r/CustomHearthstone's April Fools' joke, what they purport to be (https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/4cstpj/rcustomhearthstones_exclusive_whispers_of_the_old/d1l711y) an actual, real card (https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/4cstpj/rcustomhearthstones_exclusive_whispers_of_the_old/).
http://i.imgur.com/qQnjbfR.png

Lady Vashj

7 Mana 4/4 Legendary Neutral Minion

Windfury. This minion can only take 1 damage at a time.

[moossabi]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/vilefin-inquisitor-210x293.png

Well, that's... humorous. This will work so much better with murloc knight than silver hand recruits, but I'm not wholly sure...

[Mando Knight]

My instinct is that it's a generally-worse Finley (same stat line, same keyword, stuck to replacing keywords on your current Hero Power rather than letting you actually pick a new one) that you can double up on. The main reason to run it at all is to spam Hero Power to quickly churn out more Murlocs out of the Murloc Knight: if your MK is safe on turn 4, turn 5 becomes Silver Hand Recruit -> Vilefin (refreshing your Hero Power) -> 1/1 Murloc, giving you two Inspire activations in one turn.

However, with Murk-Eye, Puddlestomper, and Siltfin Spiritwalker rotating out, this mostly kinda just dilutes the Murloc pool for both Anyfin (since those 1/1s are going to die a lot) and Murloc Knight (since it's basically 2 chances at Finley instead of one).

[Zevox]

In case you thought your Murloc Knight deck didn't pollute the Anyfin pool enough, or just hate hearing "Reporting for Duty" but still have to fight with "Honor", have a Paladin Epic courtesy of Firebat. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMXN96vc0Ug)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce7cQYgWsAItRd2.png

Vilefin Inquisitor

1 Mana 1/3 Epic Paladin Minion

Battlecry: Your Hero Power becomes 'Summon a 1/1 Murloc.'
Blizzard really wants to encourage Murlocs to become a thing in a non-Warlock class, don't they? First it was Shaman with the one that draws cards and Neptulon, now it's Paladin with Murloc Knight, Anyfin, and this.

I don't think it'll work though. Anyfin decks don't want this because it screws up their combo, aggro Murloc Paladin wouldn't want it even if it were a thing because it doesn't want to use its hero power at all and doesn't lack for cheap Murlocs anyway, and there's never been any such thing as a midrange or control Murloc deck, and this certainly isn't going to make them a thing. So basically, meh.


Also, in /r/CustomHearthstone's April Fools' joke, what they purport to be (https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/4cstpj/rcustomhearthstones_exclusive_whispers_of_the_old/d1l711y) an actual, real card (https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/4cstpj/rcustomhearthstones_exclusive_whispers_of_the_old/).
http://i.imgur.com/qQnjbfR.png

Lady Vashj

7 Mana 4/4 Legendary Neutral Minion

Windfury. This minion can only take 1 damage at a time.
Well, since that's the same effect we saw on one of Rafaam's cards last week, I could maybe believe it. Not sure it's much good though - those are sad stats for the cost, and even being tougher to remove without hard removal than most might not make up for that.

[Mando Knight]

Fortunately, though, Vilefin will be an Epic, so there's still room for playable Common or Rare Paladin cards.

[AgentPaper]

Blizzard really wants to encourage Murlocs to become a thing in a non-Warlock class, don't they? First it was Shaman with the one that draws cards and Neptulon, now it's Paladin with Murloc Knight, Anyfin, and this.

I don't think it'll work though. Anyfin decks don't want this because it screws up their combo, aggro Murloc Paladin wouldn't want it even if it were a thing because it doesn't want to use its hero power at all and doesn't lack for cheap Murlocs anyway, and there's never been any such thing as a midrange or control Murloc deck, and this certainly isn't going to make them a thing. So basically, meh.

I wouldn't be so sure. Probably not with what we've seen so far, but Murloc Knight is a thing, and this makes that even better alongside Murloc Warleader. If we see a few, or really even just one more value Murloc card (like another buffer that increases health to go with Murloc Warleader), then I think we could see some kind of Murloc Paladin Zoo-style deck. As in, a deck that just plays a bunch of good, synergistic cards and takes control of the board from the get go.

[Qwertystop]

Back in TGT I used a Paladin deck that was just every murloc, plus filler. No combo, just play them in whatever order produces the best board from hand, then smash things. Worked pretty well. Still does, but less so - I haven't finished unlocking the Expedition yet, so it's got nothing from that.

That deck would love this new thing, I think - already using power to trigger Knight.

[Rodin]

Well, since that's the same effect we saw on one of Rafaam's cards last week, I could maybe believe it. Not sure it's much good though - those are sad stats for the cost, and even being tougher to remove without hard removal than most might not make up for that.

In the linked thread they pretty much confirm it's a joke - the art used is the same as one seen on a custom card art from last year.

Seems like a waste of a joke, to be honest...the stat line and abilities aren't outrageous, and there's no inherent joke that I can see. It's just a fake card made to be as believable as possible.

[Togath]

The murloc looks fun!
If nothing else it is super adorable <3
And it might be interesting to see if it helps make non-anyfin paladin murloc decks a thing(and a 1/3 for 1 is pretty good regardless).

[Grytorm]

I wonder, would you be able to play this with the 6/3 gal? Mostly because this is a possible early game card for my super durdle deck.

[Mando Knight]

I wonder, would you be able to play this with the 6/3 gal? Mostly because this is a possible early game card for my super durdle deck.

No, as then it's no longer a starting Hero Power. Justicar can't upgrade the Hero Powers off of Shadowform or Charged Hammer, either.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

My instinct is that it's a generally-worse Finley (same stat line, same keyword, stuck to replacing keywords on your current Hero Power rather than letting you actually pick a new one) that you can double up on. The main reason to run it at all is to spam Hero Power to quickly churn out more Murlocs out of the Murloc Knight: if your MK is safe on turn 4, turn 5 becomes Silver Hand Recruit -> Vilefin (refreshing your Hero Power) -> 1/1 Murloc, giving you two Inspire activations in one turn.

However, with Murk-Eye, Puddlestomper, and Siltfin Spiritwalker rotating out, this mostly kinda just dilutes the Murloc pool for both Anyfin (since those 1/1s are going to die a lot) and Murloc Knight (since it's basically 2 chances at Finley instead of one).
One thought I do have is that it lets your Coldlight Seers, Tidehunters, and even Grimscale Oracles get some value. And the 1/3 statline is very nice.

Unfortunately, this doesn't synergize with Justicar Trueheart or Muster for Battle/Stand Against Darkness, unless they significantly hardcoded stuff in. (This would make for a great aura effect, for instance: "When you summon a Silver Hand Recruit, it becomes a Murloc"). That makes it pretty bad, because the 1/1s are not hard to clear, usually.

If Anyfin Paladin finds legs through Whispers of the Old Gods, this would definitely be a decent Paladin tech against it, since a 1/3 is a really good statline. Plus, if you have 1/1s on the board, they need to clear them before playing a Warleader, lest they give you 3/2s that you can bash their face in with. (And they only have a limited amount of AoE clear.)

[Legoshrimp]

1/3 isn't a very good statline, the only thing it trades with favorably are 2/1s and 1/1s. It is an okay statline since it can trade with the occasional 1 drop and can't be pinged, but it isn't very good.

[Destro_Yersul]

might see some use anyways, if midrange stays a thing. Quartermaster is going to be out of standard, and if you can summon a few warleaders with Anyfin or Murloc Knight, then your hero power starts being 'summon a 3/2 murloc', and that's pretty good.

[Infernally Clay]

1/3 isn't a very good statline, the only thing it trades with favorably are 2/1s and 1/1s. It is an okay statline since it can trade with the occasional 1 drop and can't be pinged, but it isn't very good.

A one mana 1/3 is fantastic value and quite literally as good as it can get before the card needs some form of drawback, like Kvaldir Raider or Zombie Chow.

I don't entirely know if the Vilefin guy will be worth running, though. Obviously the hero power it gives becomes very powerful in an aggressive Murlocadin deck since you can spam Murlocs all day (what with Warleader turning them into 3/2s, for example) but Anyfin becomes almost useless in that situation.

I guess a couple of Garrison Commanders would come in real handy in a deck like that though.

[Thialfi]

Murlocs are like Monty Python to me. I just don't get it. Why do they amuse people? I find them extremely annoying.

I guess they are trying to promote some kind of mid range deck where you manage to keep a warleader and steward on the board and your hero power summons a 3/2 with divine shield. I don't see that working.

[Grytorm]

I have decided what we should abreviate Whispers of the Old Gods.

Whispers of the Old Gods ==> WotOG ==> Warthog

Or just call it Whispers or something.

[Legoshrimp]

A one mana 1/3 is fantastic value and quite literally as good as it can get before the card needs some form of drawback, like Kvaldir Raider or Zombie Chow.

I don't entirely know if the Vilefin guy will be worth running, though. Obviously the hero power it gives becomes very powerful in an aggressive Murlocadin deck since you can spam Murlocs all day (what with Warleader turning them into 3/2s, for example) but Anyfin becomes almost useless in that situation.

I guess a couple of Garrison Commanders would come in real handy in a deck like that though.

As good as you can get doesn't make it good value. That is why at times decks have just ignored 5 drops.
No it has very little value. The only decks that really run 1 drops are aggro decks(or they run zombie chow). most 1/3s have really good abilities, the worst of which is taunt. Voidwalker is pretty much only run in zoo which runs a decent amount of buff cards to help voidwalker actually kill things. I am not sure but voidwalker might be dropped from zoo if it didn't have taunt.

Oh wait lol I completely forgot about warbot. Since everyone probably has forgotten about it. It is a 1/3 for 1 mech with enrage: +1 attack. I think if 1/3 for 1 was a fantastic value some warrior decks might have managed to fit it in at some point.
It might be good stats for a 1 drop, but it still isn't worth a card. Pretty much the only 1 drop that is run for its stats is flame imp, kind of twilight welp, and zombie chow.
Everything else is a mix of applies pressure + has a good ability.

Edit:
I think just calling it old gods is more likely then whispers.

[Kish]

To my knowledge, no one ever plays a 1/3 minion for the stat array. Never. Northshire Cleric, for a priest's draw engine; Voidwalker for a taunt. Whether converting a paladin's summons to murlocs is enough to get the card a place in a deck, well, we'll see, assuming the card hasn't been announced to be a joke by day after tomorrow. (Today, the only certainty I have, is that whoever invented April Fools' Day should be hung upside down in a scorpion pit, trying to figure out why the words LEARN THE WORDS are written on the side of the pit.)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Warbot is bad because Warrior doesn't need a 1-ping early in the game; it'd rather War Axe or Death's Bite minions. Paladin does have access to a ping, however, and that makes 1/3 a fairly valuable stat line, especially because it deals with face minions like Leper Gnome. (I've been getting a bigger appreciation for 1/3 statlines thanks to Finley in Aggro Shaman.)

[moossabi]

New patch. (http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1247-hearthstone-patch-40116-card-balance-new-art-deck)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

New patch. (http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1247-hearthstone-patch-40116-card-balance-new-art-deck)
NO WAY.

I still can't believe that Shaman minion.

Like. Are they actually giving Shaman...AN AMAZING CLASS CARD??? That makes their hero power super-useful??

It's like Knight of the Wild, but it procs off of your hero power. :smalleek:

T1: coin Totem Golem
T2: pass or maybe Rockbiter
T3: hero power or Tuskarr Totemic
T4: 5/5 Taunt

(or, if you're P1, just skip to T2 and Totem Golem into hero power)

Sub in "hero power" for T2 if you don't draw a Totem Golem, and it still works. Like, T2 hero power into T3 hero power isn't a great play, but if you literally didn't draw anything else, it still lets you T4 put a 5/5 taunt up.

And then your other copy of the minion keeps getting better every time you hero power.

[Hamste]

NO WAY.

I still can't believe that Shaman minion.

Like. Are they actually giving Shaman...AN AMAZING CLASS CARD??? That makes their hero power super-useful??

It's like Knight of the Wild, but it procs off of your hero power. :smalleek:

T1: coin Totem Golem
T2: pass or maybe Rockbiter
T3: hero power or Tuskarr Totemic
T4: 5/5 Taunt

(or, if you're P1, just skip to T2 and Totem Golem into hero power)

Sub in "hero power" for T2 if you don't draw a Totem Golem, and it still works. Like, T2 hero power into T3 hero power isn't a great play, but if you literally didn't draw anything else, it still lets you T4 put a 5/5 taunt up.

And then your other copy of the minion keeps getting better every time you hero power.

I'm not sure. The card is great but it is April 1st and it could be a joke.

[Murmaider]

The Card becomes good if shaman gets more playable totems. At the moment this isn't even on the level of feral spirit.

[Kish]

I'm not sure. The card is great but it is April 1st and it could be a joke.
Yes, this. Talking about anything today as though it was real and certain is unwise.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The Card becomes good if shaman gets more playable totems. At the moment this isn't even on the level of feral spirit.
Feral Spirit spends 5 mana over two turns to get two 2/3 taunts. This spends 4 or less mana on one turn to get a 5/5 taunt. That's a world of difference.

Like, remember how good Taz'dingo was back in the day? How about a Taz'dingo that can be cheaper and that has +2 attack?

[Infernally Clay]

The Shaman card is actually real. One of the senior designers confirmed it on Twitter.

I like how the first Thing From Below is practically guaranteed to be a four mana 5/5 with taunt that you can drop on curve. That's the sort of thing you mulligan for specifically so you can drop it on turn four. If you put two in your deck, the second is probably going to cost no mana at all to play. Which I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of how awesome that is.

You're gonna need one heck of a good reason to not include at least one in your Shaman decks.

[Murmaider]

Feral Spirit spends 5 mana over two turns to get two 2/3 taunts. This spends 4 or less mana on one turn to get a 5/5 taunt. That's a world of difference.

Like, remember how good Taz'dingo was back in the day? How about a Taz'dingo that can be cheaper and that has +2 attack?

Feral Spirit empowers Tunnel Trogg(a card that's actually played at the moment, in comparison to the Tuskarr Totemic), comes in to play a turn earlier and is most of the time better suited to protect the stuff behind it.

If you waste a turn on using only your hero power, you might as well play Twilight Drake to get a 4/6 on turn 4. If you need taunt to protect your face, Taz'Dingo does nearly as good a job and doesn't require you to have two specific cards in hand.

Unless Shaman gets one or two more playable totems it's way too dependant on your starting hand.

[Sith_Happens]

The Shaman card is actually real.

Which one? I see two shaman cards in that article (Thing from Below and Lord of Evolution).

[tonberrian]

Thing from Below is what they were talking about as real.

[Mando Knight]

Savj's Master of Evolution (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tBjsKQ_-zA) (AKA Faceless Recombobulator-Yeti) is also real, though.

http://i.imgur.com/XssV8NI.png

Master of Evolution

4 Mana 4/5 Rare Shaman minion

Battlecry: Transform a friendly minion into a random one that costs (1) more.

[Kish]

Huh. If it wasn't a shaman card it would be possibly worth putting in a paladin deck where a token can become a 2-cost minion, or (in Wild) a mage deck with Unstable Portal, where Something Random Which Turned Out To Be Bad could become Something Equally Random But Better. As it is--well, I suppose a totem is just as reconfigurable as a recruit, and it gives another incentive to use totems.

[Murmaider]

Oh, might as well delete my last post. Master of Evolution makes Thing from Below and any deck that it'll fit in really, really good. Holy cramp, that card's good.

If we get a playable crackle replacement we even might see two good shaman decks in the meta at once.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Savj's Master of Evolution (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tBjsKQ_-zA) (AKA Faceless Recombobulator-Yeti) is also real, though.

http://i.imgur.com/XssV8NI.png

Master of Evolution

4 Mana 4/5 Rare Shaman minion

Battlecry: Transform a friendly minion into a random one that costs (1) more.
I hope its voice clips play off of Abathur. :smallbiggrin:

That is super-sweet. It works amazingly with totems (from your hero power, and from your Totemic, and even from the Totem Golem you dropped early on that's at 1 health now), and even minions like Abusive Sergeant, I suppose. Though I can't see a midrange/value Shaman that likes running Abusive Sergeant. Still, I dig that you can play a 3-drop, use it to kill a 2-drop (and leave it with low health), and then evolve it into a 4-drop.

[Kish]

Or, if you have Brann on the board, evolve a three-drop into a five-drop.

[GAAD]

Or, if you have Brann on the board, evolve a three-drop into a five-drop.

With the stats of a 2 drop. Starving Buzzard, AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

[Anxe]

Huh. If it wasn't a shaman card it would be possibly worth putting in a paladin deck where a token can become a 2-cost minion, or (in Wild) a mage deck with Unstable Portal, where Something Random Which Turned Out To Be Bad could become Something Equally Random But Better. As it is--well, I suppose a totem is just as reconfigurable as a recruit, and it gives another incentive to use totems.

It works really well in the Shaman Battlecry deck that already exists. Brann + Rumbling Elemental opened that deck up. Drop a bunch of strong Battlecries and get more out of them with those. Recombobulator allowed the weak stats of a Battlecry minion to turn into something average to strong (ex: Turning a 2/3 Defender of Argus into a 3/5 Something Else). Recombobulator also functioned as a weird heal and as a Battlecry on its own. Master of Evolution is replacing Recombobulator in that decktype in Standard.

[Zevox]

Holy cow, good cards! And in Shaman, no less!

Master of Evolution looks great - Yeti+, and that upside could be pretty darn good, especially with the kind of minions that Recombobulator was already good with (i.e. weak for their cost but good effects, like Defender of Argus). And Thing from Below is pretty solid as well, I think.

Although, Shaman has had good cards given to it in the past, and still failed to pulled itself out of the gutter. Fireguard Destroyer, Totem Golem, Tuskar Totemic, Tunnel Trog - and yet all the class has managed since GvG is a couple of aggro decks that didn't even stay that significant to the meta for too long. I suppose the hope is that with GvG and Naxx rotating out the other classes (especially Paladin) suffering those losses more will breathe new life into Shaman, but it does remain to be seen if that'll actually happen. Well, here's hoping - or at least, here's hoping a non-aggro Shaman can finally be good again. It used to be one of my favorite classes, but that feels like a long time ago now...

[PsyBomb]

Shaman have gotten a ton of awesome control cards recently, enough so that I can easily see them assembling a spell-heavy control deck. They ALSO have the best way to cheat out one of the Old Gods now, not even sure we need a Crackle replacement for them to have two distinct competitive decks. This assuming Aggro doesn't get completely locked out of the meta, haven't seen any new Overload cards yet.

[Grytorm]

Playing an unusual deck. It is pretty fun, but I want to see what other people think of it. Probably the most controversial card would be the Cutpurse. Ideally I want to add Anuburak possible as lategame or Reno Jackson for the heals. Maybe Gallywix, mostly for my own amusement.


2x Backstab
2x Preperation
2x Deadly Poison
2x Eviscerate
2x Cutpurse
2x Sunfury Protector
2x Fan of Knives
2x SI7 Agent
2x Tomb Pillager
2x Twilight Drake
2x Antique Healbot
2x Sludge Belcher
1x Dark Iron Skulker
1x Emperor Thaurisan
2x Sprint
2x Molten Giant

[GAAD]

GAADstone clip: Hello, Deathwing. You're Looking Very Snuffy Today (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh2DNL_Z15o)

[Togath]

GAADstone clip: Hello, Deathwing. You're Looking Very Snuffy Today (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh2DNL_Z15o)

The clip seems to feature no deaththing?(and what does "snuffy" mean?)

[Sith_Happens]

I'm assuming the joke is that the Blood Knight became a 12/12, which are Deathwing's stats.

[thirsting]

Golden Millhouse Manastorm from the brawl pack! My life is complete.

[neriractor]

With the stats of a 2 drop. Starving Buzzard, AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

I laughed hard at this, thank you funnyman. :smallsmile:


Golden Millhouse Manastorm from the brawl pack! My life is complete.

Lucky you, I wish I got 1600 dust from the brawl.

[Anxe]

A lot of golden cards make other associated cards golden as well. Does Golden Millhouse make your opponent's spells Golden?

[The Glyphstone]

A lot of golden cards make other associated cards golden as well. Does Golden Millhouse make your opponent's spells Golden?

I don't think so. Millhouse modifies existing cards, but he doesn't create new ones. Gold cards create Gold cards, but something like a Stormwind Champion won't make other monsters you control gold while it's projecting an aura. A Golden Discover card will make the cards you pick from Gold, but Golden Arcane Intellect won't make the two cards you draw turn Gold.

[Anxe]

I don't think so. Millhouse modifies existing cards, but he doesn't create new ones. Gold cards create Gold cards, but something like a Stormwind Champion won't make other monsters you control gold while it's projecting an aura. A Golden Discover card will make the cards you pick from Gold, but Golden Arcane Intellect won't make the two cards you draw turn Gold.

Glyphstone, Moderator, Eldritch Horror in the Playground, and JOKE KILLER.

[Zevox]

Lucky you, I wish I got 1600 dust from the brawl.
Eh, it almost doesn't matter to me what I get out of packs these days. I have so little from the existing sets that I still want that I'm just saving everything for Whispers. Currently at more than enough dust to make a legendary (and that's without disenchanting any adventure cards yet) and enough gold for 28 packs.

[The Glyphstone]

Glyphstone, Moderator, Eldritch Horror in the Playground, and JOKE KILLER.

That is not humorous which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even jokes may die?

[Zevox]

You know, one minor thing I have to say that I'm disappointed with about Lady Liadrin? That golden streak animation for her hero power goes away if you upgrade it with Justicar Trueheart. Really small thing I know, but it's kind of a cool animation, and I wish it was there for when her hero power is even better, too.

[PsyBomb]

Finally got the gold for Bronzebeard's wing of LoE! I know that Finley is my next target, assuming Control Shaman still uses him, but wondering what my next target should be.

Main deck is Zoo, still under construction. Next up will be a Hunter, then a Shaman, since I'll be close to finishing the budget versions.

EDIT: I have the first two wings of each adventure, now.

[Gandariel]

Finally got the gold for Bronzebeard's wing of LoE! I know that Finley is my next target, assuming Control Shaman still uses him, but wondering what my next target should be.

Main deck is Zoo, still under construction. Next up will be a Hunter, then a Shaman, since I'll be close to finishing the budget versions.

EDIT: I have the first two wings of each adventure, now.

I guess follow up on LoE? It has generally the best value per gold. Well, i'd suggest Naxx, but that won't matter soon (you can just craft whatever you need in Wild)

Zoo is a great deck because you can just play it with whatever cards you have on hand.
The only really good cards that are locked behind adventures are Creeper, Egg and Imp Gang Boss (which you seem to have).

[PsyBomb]

I guess follow up on LoE? It has generally the best value per gold. Well, i'd suggest Naxx, but that won't matter soon (you can just craft whatever you need in Wild)

Zoo is a great deck because you can just play it with whatever cards you have on hand.
The only really good cards that are locked behind adventures are Creeper, Egg and Imp Gang Boss (which you seem to have).

Yeah, Brann is actually for the final version of the deck. Once I acquire a Gormok (since I'll have 5-6 good battlecries at that point), he goes in.

[The Glyphstone]

You should always get the first wing of Blackrock Mountain even if you don't want the cards there, simply to have the option of playing UnstablePortal.dec in the Mage Challenge. So much RNGtastic fun.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Finally got round to doing the current Tbrawl. Put together a random mage deck (probably not the best approach) and won after a few matches. In one game I Mirror Entity'd and then Duplicated the enemy's Aviana (since he was ready with Naturalize), which was funny. It was pretty close after that, but I eventually won. At one point he FON'd for face damage and just seemed to run out of steam after that.

[Gandariel]

Yeah, Brann is actually for the final version of the deck. Once I acquire a Gormok (since I'll have 5-6 good battlecries at that point), he goes in.

Gormok? This means you're running the full flood deck (with Hobgoblin)?

It's currently my favorite deck! I'll send you my list soon :)

[PsyBomb]

Gormok? This means you're running the full flood deck (with Hobgoblin)?

It's currently my favorite deck! I'll send you my list soon :)

Not doing Hobgoblin, since this is going to be Standard-ready, but I very often find myself with 4 on the field just from messing around. Well, since I don't go all-in too often, I have one or two cheap guys hiding in hand to help out. Remember, budget F2P who just completed his third month of Hearthstone.

[neriractor]

Not doing Hobgoblin, since this is going to be Standard-ready, but I very often find myself with 4 on the field just from messing around Well, since I don't go all-in too often, I have one or two cheap guys hiding in hand to help out. Remember, budget F2P who just completed his third month of Hearthstone.

Nice, I'm in like my fifth month and I still only have the first wing of Naxx :smalltongue: guess it is because I can't control myself for enough time to save up all that gold and I'm terrible in arena, the biggest amount I have ever saved is 2160 gold to spend in the new expansion.

[Zevox]

Not doing Hobgoblin, since this is going to be Standard-ready, but I very often find myself with 4 on the field just from messing around. Well, since I don't go all-in too often, I have one or two cheap guys hiding in hand to help out. Remember, budget F2P who just completed his third month of Hearthstone.
I think we mentioned this to you before, but if you want a deck for Standard, Gormok's probably not a worthwhile investment. It's going to be a lot harder to activate him without Imp-losion or Haunted Creeper, which will be out of Standard.

[PsyBomb]

I think we mentioned this to you before, but if you want a deck for Standard, Gormok's probably not a worthwhile investment. It's going to be a lot harder to activate him without Imp-losion or Haunted Creeper, which will be out of Standard.

Still making the budget version, so there's still testing time. It might just be the ranks I'm playing at (R13 this past month), but I usually find at least one or two points he could activate. Not really as sure as I sounded last post, it came off a bit wrong.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Still making the budget version, so there's still testing time. It might just be the ranks I'm playing at (R13 this past month), but I usually find at least one or two points he could activate. Not really as sure as I sounded last post, it came off a bit wrong.
Yeah, with current cards, he actually works really well, between Haunted Creeper, Imp-losion, and even Nerubian Egg. It's uncertain how much support Zoolock will get in the future, especially "put all the minions on the field" Zoolock. That said, I doubt they want the archetype to disappear, and Zoolock somehow finds new ways to keep surviving...

[PsyBomb]

So, hilarious questing moment.

I'm on my rogue, trying to rack up wins. I'm in a mirror match. Drop Ragnaros onto the field facing open air, the blast setting the enemy to 12. His turn is two Gang Ups and an SI Agent. That's right, he had six Firelords in his deck out of 24 cards after that. Sad part is that the next turn was sap-Evis and game.

[Zevox]

So, hilarious questing moment.

I'm on my rogue, trying to rack up wins. I'm in a mirror match. Drop Ragnaros onto the field facing open air, the blast setting the enemy to 12. His turn is two Gang Ups and an SI Agent. That's right, he had six Firelords in his deck out of 24 cards after that. Sad part is that the next turn was sap-Evis and game.
Sounds about like how you should expect Gang Up to work in a typical deck: entirely too slow. That's why it only sees play in Mill Rogue.

[tonberrian]

It would be cool if Tentacles for Arms keeps track of buffs played on it like C'Tun does. I doubt it will, though.

[The Glyphstone]

It would be cool if Tentacles for Arms keeps track of buffs played on it like C'Tun does. I doubt it will, though.

Though that gives me an idea to make it a good card, or at least a not-terrible one. Exactly the same, but add

"Battlecry: Gain +1 attack for each time you have played Tentacles For Arms."

3/2 the first iteration, 4/2 the second, 5/2 the third...

[Zevox]

It would be cool if Tentacles for Arms keeps track of buffs played on it like C'Tun does. I doubt it will, though.
Yeah, it would mention that it does if that were the case, because by default no card keeps track of buffs that way.

[Infernally Clay]

http://hearthstone.blizzpro.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/04/ravaging-ghoul.png

[moossabi]

http://hearthstone.blizzpro.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/04/ravaging-ghoul.png

Here we have the lesser undead infernal, seen here in its natural habitat enabling more patron warriors (STOP HELPING THEM BLIZZARD!)

[Destro_Yersul]

could be worse. They're losing Death's Bite. This card is another whirlwind effect, it's true, but I think that there are better whirlwind effects to have around.

[Infernally Clay]

could be worse. They're losing Death's Bite. This card is another whirlwind effect, it's true, but I think that there are better whirlwind effects to have around.

I dunno. As a battlecry, it's much easier to use than most others. Patron into Whirlwind into Ravaging Ghoul will get you three 3/3s, a 3/2 and a 3/1. Not bad for a three card combo.

[ChaosOS]

Still though it's a solid card but competes with Acolyte of Pain, Bash, etc. in the 3 drop slot. Best thing is it helps out Arena warriors.

[PsyBomb]

Not sure what to think of that Ghoul. Starting to think it's getting excessive, and this is attached to a decent body (not QUITE vanilla test, but will trade with 3/4s already on the field). Patron is also going to get a popularity bump if C'thun gets used a lot, talked about the statistics earlier stopping that mega-blast

[Joran]

Still though it's a solid card but competes with Acolyte of Pain, Bash, etc. in the 3 drop slot. Best thing is it helps out Arena warriors.

Patron usually doesn't run Bash; there is Frothing Berserker in the 3 slot for Patron and some anti-aggro versions were running Fierce Monkey. In Standard, Death's Bite and Unstable Ghoul are both going away, so Patron is going to need more Whirlwind effects.

I don't think this will be run in Wild Patron decks, but it's a solid entry into Standard Patron.


I dunno. As a battlecry, it's much easier to use than most others. Patron into Whirlwind into Ravaging Ghoul will get you three 3/3s, a 3/2 and a 3/1. Not bad for a three card combo.

That also requires 9 mana. The regular combo of Patron + Inner Rage + Whirlwind effect will still be there. I'm curious to see if this will be a replacement or if the Tentacle (the mini explosive sheep) will be used instead.

[Anxe]

Has anyone tried running Patron in a Paladin deck with Humility and Eadric the Pure as possible activators?

[Joran]

Has anyone tried running Patron in a Paladin deck with Humility and Eadric the Pure as possible activators?

I've seen some people using Wild Pyromancer as an activator in non-Warrior decks, but isn't as consistent as Warrior.

[Anarion]

Has anyone tried running Patron in a Paladin deck with Humility and Eadric the Pure as possible activators?

The problem with that is that you need to active the patron the turn you play it. There are many ways (humility among them), to get a patron going if it has sat on the board for a turn already. But if you play a patron, the other player will always kill it immediately if they're able to do so. So, warrior is advantaged because they have a bunch of deal 1 damage effects and are getting more apparently to replace the rotating ones. Paladin could use wild pyromancer, but you need a cheap combo and even then you're looking at a minimum of 8 mana to play a patron and ping it on the same turn. Comparably, a warrior with inner rage and the new ghoul could make 4 patrons for 8 mana, one of which has boosted attack.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Patron isn't going to lack for whirlwind activators, but will have issues coming up with removal. In fact, having another body on the field can be a detriment to Patron decks relying on Patron spam to work out. Generally, you want to unleash a Patron turn by using as few non-Patron minions as possible, and those are usually Armorsmiths and Berserkers.

The thing is, Patron can't just win by developing a field; they also need to be able to manage their opponent's board. Death's Bite into Dread Corsair let you develop a taunt (and protect Armorsmith/Berserker), remove a Turn 4 threat, and set up for Turn 5 Patron nova (Patron => Inner Rage => Death's Bite to deal 4 face damage or remove a 5-health threat like Belcher, and if you had the coin you could also Whirlwind).

So if Patron Warrior is to remain a thing, they need ways to do all of that, and adding more whirlwind effects won't be what does it.

(Death's Bite was also amazing because it acted as a Turn 8 Grommash activator, along with Inner Rage.)

[Zevox]

http://hearthstone.blizzpro.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/04/ravaging-ghoul.png
Not bad, but not great. Obviously it's best for Patron Warrior - but it's also worse for that deck than any other whirlwind effect it's ever actually run. Death's Bite and Unstable Ghoul can be played a turn or more in advance and then detonate when the Patron itself comes down, and Whirlwind itself is a measly 1 mana, going down to 0 if Thaurissan hits it. This is a 3 mana battlecry, which makes it harder to combo with Patron until later in the game compared to those other cards (minimum turn 8 without discounts, and that would only be good with an Inner Rage thrown in on top of it). It might help keep Patron Warrior around, but if this is what they'll have to work with instead of Death's Bite in the future, the deck will definitely be much the weaker for it.

Should be pretty good for arena though, as somebody else already mentioned, which is good since Warrior is supposedly the weakest arena class right now.

[Murmaider]

Should be pretty good for arena though, as somebody else already mentioned, which is good since Warrior is supposedly the weakest arena class right now.

Warrior is pretty high up there at the moment, thanks to the Newest Expansion Bias™. But you're right, The two commons anounced so far are really good and will probably allow Warrior to stay on the same level of competivity as it is right now. The overall quality of warrior cards will raise a bit, but the bigger card pool will mean lower probabilities to get those juicy weapons.

[Joran]

Not bad, but not great. Obviously it's best for Patron Warrior - but it's also worse for that deck than any other whirlwind effect it's ever actually run. Death's Bite and Unstable Ghoul can be played a turn or more in advance and then detonate when the Patron itself comes down, and Whirlwind itself is a measly 1 mana, going down to 0 if Thaurissan hits it. This is a 3 mana battlecry, which makes it harder to combo with Patron until later in the game compared to those other cards (minimum turn 8 without discounts, and that would only be good with an Inner Rage thrown in on top of it). It might help keep Patron Warrior around, but if this is what they'll have to work with instead of Death's Bite in the future, the deck will definitely be much the weaker for it.

Should be pretty good for arena though, as somebody else already mentioned, which is good since Warrior is supposedly the weakest arena class right now.

Warrior's no longer the weakest arena class, supposedly. The addition of Fierce Monkey and Obsidian Destroyer and TGT cards no longer being the current set (there's a set bonus where the newest set's cards get presented more often than normal) have made Warrior about average in arena. I think Priest is usually considered one of the weaker classes.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Should be pretty good for arena though, as somebody else already mentioned, which is good since Warrior is supposedly the weakest arena class right now.
Yeah, this is a pretty awesome arena card for Warrior. Deals with divine shield, works as a ping, is also a great followup to any Enrage minions you drafted (T2 Amani Berserker => T3 3/3 and ping). And since it's from the latest set, in Arena you'll have a higher chance of drawing this as an activator for any Enrage minions you draft.

[moossabi]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/hammer-of-twilight-210x289.png

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/mire-keeper2-210x285.png

[neriractor]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/hammer-of-twilight-210x289.png

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/mire-keeper2-210x285.png

Those don't seem too bad, I like the weapon(don't know if it is good but it looks like a cool card) and the keeper is another way to get an early mana crystal.

[Zevox]

Hm, my initial reaction is Hammer of Twilight is iffy, while Mire Keeper is very good.

Hammer of Twilight is +1 mana cost over what makes a good 4/2 weapon (Truesilver, Death's Bite), in exchange for a 4/2 body when it's used up. But is a 4/2 body going to be that big of a deal? It dies to any AoE or 2 drop. Granted, it's extra value on an already inherently valuable card (a weapon), but is it enough to warrant a 5 mana cost? Particularly in a class that has struggled with being able to use weapons much already (I'm assuming, anyway - seems like a Shaman weapon, but it's damn hard to tell with how those cards are designed).

Mire Keeper, though, is solid. You grab the 2/2 minion against aggressive opponents or in the late game when you've already got enough/maxed out mana anyway, and take the mana against slower opponents. Should be pretty good I think, possibly an automatic two-of in every Druid deck from now on.

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, 'early' mana crystal. It costs 4 and is a 3/3, which isn't very good. It's probably alright if you can ramp into it on turn 3, so I could see it being used, and it's nice that later on it does something else, so it's not useless if you draw it on ten mana. Yeah. Given the alternate use, I think this might see some play.

The shaman weapon is really interesting. Weapon stats = Truesilver, and for one more mana it summons a 4/2 when it dies. That's pretty good. I think this is actually a really good, solid card, and might help Shaman out a lot. Especially in Arena. In Arena this card is insane. Shame it's an Epic.

[Qwertystop]

I've already had lots of success adding Darnassus Aspirant to my Ramp Druid deck, even though I need a way to stop it from dying - usually by following it with a silence from wossname, the choose-silence-or-2-damage. Or with a Recombobulator, which is usually nice. This is +1 stats for +2 cost, plus changing out the negative Deathrattle for an alternate battlecry.

Except that Choose abilities aren't technically battlecries for some reason?

[otakuryoga]

http://hearthstone.blizzpro.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/04/ravaging-ghoul.png

cant see picture at work

as a matter of courtesy if you post a pic of a new card can you please post the stats under it?

[ChaosOS]

Ravaging Ghoul

Warrior common 3 mana 3/3 battlecry: deal 1 damage to all other minions

EDIT: Added mana cost

[otakuryoga]

cost? ten chars

[tonberrian]

cost?

Three. ten chars

[Kish]

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/hammer-of-twilight-210x289.png
Hammer of Twilight: 5-cost Shaman weapon, 4/2, Deathrattle: Summon a 4/2 elemental.

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/mire-keeper2-210x285.png
Mire Keeper: 4 cost Druid minion, 3/3, Choose One: Summon a 2/2 slime, or gain an empty Mana Crystal.

I'm sure putting Mire Keeper in my ramp druid deck. Wild Growth tied to, effectively, a 2-cost "summon a 3/3" looks good to me.

[Xiander]

Is anyone else having trouble with battlenet? I have been unable to connect to the network for twelve hours now... :smallconfused:

[PsyBomb]

Is anyone else having trouble with battlenet? I have been unable to connect to the network for twelve hours now... :smallconfused:

No issue here. Maintenence today, though.

[Chen]

Mire Keeper: 4 cost Druid minion, 3/3, Choose One: Summon a 2/2 slime, or gain an empty Mana Crystal.

I'm sure putting Mire Keeper in my ramp druid deck. Wild Growth tied to, effectively, a 2-cost "summon a 3/3" looks good to me.

Problem is it's pretty bad for tempo. Giving up turn 2 to ramp (for growth or aspirant) seems to work. Giving up turn 4 to do it is tough. It's where swipe and keeper sit and it's the turn you can use one of those to try and get back what tempo might have been lost early.

[Thialfi]

I'm surprised at the reaction to Hammer of Twilight. As if it suffers in comparison to Doomhammer. They are completely different cards for different decks. Doomhammer is a finisher for aggressive decks. You are not going to be into card trading with doomhammer. Hammer of Twilight is very much a control oriented card. It's obvious that you will be gunning for a 3 cards for 1 trade when you play Hammer of Twilight. I think shaman has gotten some really good cards in this set. Of course, I don't play shaman.

The druid card is okay, I guess. For ramp it's a wild growth and a vanilla 3/3 for 2 wrapped into one card and you have the option to go with the slime when the ramp is no longer needed. It would be awesome if it could trigger card draw at 10 mana.

I still don't care for this set's theme at all. I have over 16,000 gold now. I had originally thought about getting 80-100 packs when the idea of 2 sets and an adventure a year was introduced. From what I have seen so far, I have halved that amount and may go even lower.

[Joran]

Problem is it's pretty bad for tempo. Giving up turn 2 to ramp (for growth or aspirant) seems to work. Giving up turn 4 to do it is tough. It's where swipe and keeper sit and it's the turn you can use one of those to try and get back what tempo might have been lost early.

The Keeper of the Mire slots pretty well into the Shredder slot in current midrange druid lists. When Aspirant was more common, Druid decks were running a lot of 4 drops because it was so easy to get to 4 mana. However, we don't know what Midrange Druid is going to look like if they do the nerfs to Druid Combo that we're all expecting.

[Chen]

The Keeper of the Mire slots pretty well into the Shredder slot in current midrange druid lists. When Aspirant was more common, Druid decks were running a lot of 4 drops because it was so easy to get to 4 mana. However, we don't know what Midrange Druid is going to look like if they do the nerfs to Druid Combo that we're all expecting.

It can take the slot shredder had in the deck, but it's role is way different. A shredder on 4 lets you almost certainly have something on the board on 5 or at least force some sort of trading to happen. It can let you make up for being behind (if they have to trade 2 things into it) or at least keep pressure up. A 3/3 on 4 is neither of those things and is just weak. In a slow meta maybe it'd work. In a fast meta seems like a Senjin would be better.

[PsyBomb]

It can take the slot shredder had in the deck, but it's role is way different. A shredder on 4 lets you almost certainly have something on the board on 5 or at least force some sort of trading to happen. It can let you make up for being behind (if they have to trade 2 things into it) or at least keep pressure up. A 3/3 on 4 is neither of those things and is just weak. In a slow meta maybe it'd work. In a fast meta seems like a Senjin would be better.

This is looking to be a slower meta, if the revealed cards are any indication of the rest of the set.

[Legoshrimp]

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/285/628/635954556054082188.png
Blood of the ancient one neutral 9 mana 9/9 with the ability that if you control two of them turn them into the ancient one.
http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/285/627/635954554457601873.png
Ancient one 9 mana 30/30

I don't think there are very many situations where having a 30/30 is better then two 9/9s

Although it might combo well with the summon a 1/1 card, but probably not sense it still can't be played on the same turn.

[Joran]

It can take the slot shredder had in the deck, but it's role is way different. A shredder on 4 lets you almost certainly have something on the board on 5 or at least force some sort of trading to happen. It can let you make up for being behind (if they have to trade 2 things into it) or at least keep pressure up. A 3/3 on 4 is neither of those things and is just weak. In a slow meta maybe it'd work. In a fast meta seems like a Senjin would be better.

It's a 3/3 and a 2/2, or a 3/3 with ramp; I can see hands and matchups where ramping is the better play, but I think the majority of the time will be 3/3 and 2/2.

I agree that Sen'jin or Yeti or the new 4 drops might be better depending on the meta and what happens with combo.

[Mando Knight]

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/285/628/635954556054082188.png
Blood of the ancient one neutral 9 mana 9/9 with the ability that if you control two of them turn them into the ancient one.
http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/285/627/635954554457601873.png
Ancient one 9 mana 30/30

I don't think there are very many situations where having a 30/30 is better then two 9/9s

It'll probably see use in a "fun card" deck, like an Astral Communion "let's see how much removal you have" deck.

[The Glyphstone]

Mage or Rogue might have fun with it, with Duplicate or Gang Up respectively...objective: get 2 30/30s on the field at once.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This is looking to be a slower meta, if the revealed cards are any indication of the rest of the set.
Depends on how much new removal gets into the new set. Removal is what slow decks need in order to survive against aggro. We've seen some of that, but Blizzard mostly seems to be pushing "heal back up" as the control thing.

[PsyBomb]

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/285/628/635954556054082188.png
Blood of the ancient one neutral 9 mana 9/9 with the ability that if you control two of them turn them into the ancient one.
http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/285/627/635954554457601873.png
Ancient one 9 mana 30/30

I don't think there are very many situations where having a 30/30 is better then two 9/9s

Although it might combo well with the summon a 1/1 card, but probably not sense it still can't be played on the same turn.

I smell Faceless Manipulator shenanigans. 30/30 vanilla really isn't as big a threat as it sounds at that point in the game, but it's an instant end to things if the enemy is caught with their pants down.

[Anxe]

Operation Ancient One

1: Go Second. Draw Innervate x2, Alarm-o-Bot x2, and Blood of the Ancient One. Pass.
2: Draw Blood of the Ancient One. Play both Innervates and both Alarm-o-Bots.
3: Have Two Blood of the Ancient Ones in play. Attack with both. Summon The Ancient One
4: Dance on your opponent's defiled grave.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Operation Ancient One

1: Go Second. Draw Innervate x2, Alarm-o-Bot x2, and Blood of the Ancient One. Pass.
2: Draw Blood of the Ancient One. Play both Innervates and both Alarm-o-Bots.
3: Have Two Blood of the Ancient Ones in play. Attack with both. Summon The Ancient One
4: Dance on your opponent's defiled grave.
5: "I've got the beast in my sights!"
6: You have one card in hand, and your opponent is at 12 life. Can you finish them off?

[Hamste]

Operation Ancient One

1: Go Second. Draw Innervate x2, Alarm-o-Bot x2, and Blood of the Ancient One. Pass.
2: Draw Blood of the Ancient One. Play both Innervates and both Alarm-o-Bots.
3: Have Two Blood of the Ancient Ones in play. Attack with both. Summon The Ancient One
4: Dance on your opponent's defiled grave.

Get sad after all this set up when after all that Alarm-o-bot gets the other Alarm-o-bot that just went into your hand (or sap).

[Qwertystop]

Hmmm... if you have two Innervates, a Faceless, and a BotAO, you can get the 30/30 directly from hand on turn 10. Hopefully you have a big taunt or two left from turn 9.

[PsyBomb]

Yeah, Blood will NEVER be a serious deck, since it's just too vulnerable to hard removal for that level of investment. Good for fun decks if you're questing in Casual.

Random thought: what happens if you target a Molten Giant with a Master of Evolution?

[The Glyphstone]

If Brawls are any precedent, with similar effects, I think it just turns into a Molten Giant again.

[Mando Knight]

Random thought: what happens if you target a Molten Giant with a Master of Evolution?

Same thing that happens when you target any creature that costs 10+: absolutely nothing (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/715994048234917889).

[Legoshrimp]

Operation Ancient One

1: Go Second. Draw Innervate x2, Alarm-o-Bot x2, and Blood of the Ancient One. Pass.
2: Draw Blood of the Ancient One. Play both Innervates and both Alarm-o-Bots.
3: Have Two Blood of the Ancient Ones in play. Attack with both. Summon The Ancient One
4: Dance on your opponent's defiled grave.

They don't have charge.
If things brought in by alarm-o-bots had the ability to attack the turn they came out they would probably be pretty broken.

[Grytorm]

I wonder what the giant will be in this set. Maybe something like:

Shadow Giant
Cost (16)
Reduce the cost of this card by your C'thun's attack, wherever it is.
8/8

[Infernally Clay]

I actually love The Ancient One. It's relatively easy to activate with the right cards and so much can go wrong, rendering the whole thing pointless. It's going to be hilarious in Wild, with combos like Thaurissan on turn nine, then Blood into Ancestral Spirit into Reincarnate on turn ten. Then double Faceless on turn eleven, just because that's obviously going to happen to someone eventually.

It's a totally dumb mechanic that won't work in any serious deck, but who cares?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I actually love The Ancient One. It's relatively easy to activate with the right cards and so much can go wrong, rendering the whole thing pointless. It's going to be hilarious in Wild, with combos like Thaurissan on turn nine, then Blood into Ancestral Spirit into Reincarnate on turn ten. Then double Faceless on turn eleven, just because that's obviously going to happen to someone eventually.

It's a totally dumb mechanic that won't work in any serious deck, but who cares?
That's...actually pretty horrifying. And not implausible.

[Anarion]

Alarm-o-bot is not going to be the combo, but Hearthstone is doing a good job of making that whenever cards come out that can cheat minions into play, there will be some really amusing combos. I approve.

[Qwertystop]

Having three or more is entirely plausible (Duplicate and misc. thing-stealing abilities, plus Thaurissan to make it possible to drop them all in one turn). Hopefully they handle that case properly - all sorts of ways to mess up a requirement to do things in pairs.

[turbo164]

I actually love The Ancient One. It's relatively easy to activate with the right cards and so much can go wrong, rendering the whole thing pointless. It's going to be hilarious in Wild, with combos like Thaurissan on turn nine, then Blood into Ancestral Spirit into Reincarnate on turn ten. Then double Faceless on turn eleven, just because that's obviously going to happen to someone eventually.

It's a totally dumb mechanic that won't work in any serious deck, but who cares?

And then Misdirection into your own face. #Trolden

[Zevox]

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/285/628/635954556054082188.png
Blood of the ancient one neutral 9 mana 9/9 with the ability that if you control two of them turn them into the ancient one.
http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/avatars/285/627/635954554457601873.png
Ancient one 9 mana 30/30

I don't think there are very many situations where having a 30/30 is better then two 9/9s

Although it might combo well with the summon a 1/1 card, but probably not sense it still can't be played on the same turn.
Well, that card sucks. That effect is never realistically going to go off, and even if it did hard removal would just handle it. And without the effect, a 9/9 for 9 is not good.


Mage or Rogue might have fun with it, with Duplicate or Gang Up respectively...objective: get 2 30/30s on the field at once.
Duplicate is Naxxramas, so it won't be in standard. And the only time you could possibly need more than one 30/30 is against a Warrior with a ludicrous amount of armor - otherwise having just one and having it survive to your turn means you win as long as there's not taunt you can't clear with something else in its way. Waste of time trying for that - it would be hard enough to get one Ancient One to actually happen, much less two.

Plus, if Gang Up actually worked used to just add more big things to your deck, we'd have seen a Rogue deck that did that by now. It was certainly tried, I know that - it just isn't good. Too slow.


Operation Ancient One

1: Go Second. Draw Innervate x2, Alarm-o-Bot x2, and Blood of the Ancient One. Pass.
2: Draw Blood of the Ancient One. Play both Innervates and both Alarm-o-Bots.
3: Have Two Blood of the Ancient Ones in play. Attack with both. Summon The Ancient One
4: Dance on your opponent's defiled grave.
Or:
3a: Your opponent kills one or both Alarm-o-Bots, and now your hand sucks and you're going to lose inevitably.
3b: Your opponent doesn't do that, but the second Alarm-o-Bot just puts the first back out instead of the Blood.

And in both scenarios you can't attack with the Bloods the turn Alarm-o-Bot puts them out anyway. And it's a scenario that requires six specific cards in your hand by turn 2. Yeah, it's the type of thing that might happen once, ever, and that's about it.

[Anxe]

I can dream. :,(

[Kish]

You can't dream of the Ancient One and its blood having Charge.

Or, er, of course you can, but that's not the sort of dream that might come true.

[The Glyphstone]

Sadly, Reincarnate is also cycling out. Otherwise I could see a Shaman deck built around trying to Ancestor's Call a Blood into play as early as possible, then fusing it with Reincarnate+Ancestral Spirit.

Still super-vulnerable to hard removal and totally bad...but at least a 30/30 on turn 5 is better than a 9/9 on turn 10.

[Kish]

Once again, I regret the removal of the poll feature, because I'm wondering how many people are planning to play Standard exclusively, as the post this is directly under implies.

[neriractor]

Once again, I regret the removal of the poll feature, because I'm wondering how many people are planning to play Standard exclusively, as the post this is directly under implies.

for me it depends on the cards I get out of whispers of the old gods, I don´t have most of the classic set and my best decks are non-existant without GvG cards, so I´ll probably use mostly wild until I have some decent decks for standard.

[Zevox]

Sadly, Reincarnate is also cycling out. Otherwise I could see a Shaman deck built around trying to Ancestor's Call a Blood into play as early as possible, then fusing it with Reincarnate+Ancestral Spirit.

Still super-vulnerable to hard removal and totally bad...but at least a 30/30 on turn 5 is better than a 9/9 on turn 10.
That would be a 30/30 on turn 8, the earliest you can actually play all of those cards together, unless you were risking the combo being interrupted by the opponent just killing the first 9/9. Which is far more likely when you've given them a freebie minion via Ancestor's Call. Oh, and it's a four-card combo that depends on Blood being the only minion in your hand to begin with.

Yeah, still bad. This is really a card where you just need to luck out for it to actually work, no matter what tricks you try.

[Rodin]

Once again, I regret the removal of the poll feature, because I'm wondering how many people are planning to play Standard exclusively, as the post this is directly under implies.

I will certainly try out both. After that, it depends which is more fun.

Of course, I'm also going to be getting a heavy Wild fix from Arena, so I won't be missing the rotated-out cards as much as a lot of people. If I have the gold, I play Arena, and really only go into Ranked in order to complete quests so I can Arena it some more. Only exception is if a particular deck catches my fancy (Reno Warrior, at the moment).

[The Glyphstone]

That would be a 30/30 on turn 8, the earliest you can actually play all of those cards together, unless you were risking the combo being interrupted by the opponent just killing the first 9/9. Which is far more likely when you've given them a freebie minion via Ancestor's Call. Oh, and it's a four-card combo that depends on Blood being the only minion in your hand to begin with.

Yeah, still bad. This is really a card where you just need to luck out for it to actually work, no matter what tricks you try.

Technically you could pull it off on Turn 6 with a Coin+Thaurissan on T5, hitting all three spells.

It's not a good deck. It's a terrible deck. But it could be a funny deck, in Unranked Wild. It's what Magic players would call a 'Timmy' card, the sort of player who just likes the big stompy cards even if they're not actually efficient for their cost.

[Mando Knight]

Lifecoach (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMUKtIc0fe8) reveals a new card, Echo of Garrosh Blood Warriors

http://i.imgur.com/OzRh5Vq.png

Blood Warriors

3 Mana Epic Warrior Spell

Add a copy of each damaged friendly minion to your hand.

In short, don't let Grommash sit on the board if you can help it, or you might find that Garrosh went dimension-hopping to find another copy of his dad. Again.

[otakuryoga]

Technically you could pull it off on Turn 6 with a Coin+Thaurissan on T5, hitting all three spells.

It's not a good deck. It's a terrible deck. But it could be a funny deck, in Unranked Wild. It's what Magic players would call a 'Timmy' card, the sort of player who just likes the big stompy cards even if they're not actually efficient for their cost.
Hey!
Tim ruled back in the days when I played Magic
he would ping ping ping til you removed him


Lifecoach (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMUKtIc0fe8) reveals a new card, Echo of Garrosh Blood Warriors

http://i.imgur.com/OzRh5Vq.png

Blood Warriors

3 Mana Epic Warrior Spell

Add a copy of each damaged friendly minion to your hand.

In short, don't let Grommash sit on the board if you can help it, or you might find that Garrosh went dimension-hopping to find another copy of his dad. Again.

so...echo of medivh for warrior

[GolemsVoice]

I'm going to try Standard, but my main deck, Mech Mage, will be absolutely unviable there, so we'll see.

[Destro_Yersul]

Huh. Echo of Garrosh looks... decent, I suppose. It's sort of like Battle Rage, except you know what you're going to draw. Will probably see about as much use as Echo of Medivh did.

[Kish]

"One mana less for a requirement that they all be damaged" does not look like a good trade.

[Mando Knight]

"One mana less for a requirement that they all be damaged" does not look like a good trade.

Well, it's in Warrior instead of Mage, so if you were throwing out a Whirlwind effect anyway, it's cheaper than a spell you didn't have before.

[Destro_Yersul]

"One mana less for a requirement that they all be damaged" does not look like a good trade.

It's the sort of card that only works in Warrior, because Warrior has loads of whirlwind effects that hit everything.

[Grytorm]

Hmm. Started my first Arena run in months. I am not posting a full thing, but I think it is okay. Druid, decent amount of early game, 2 ramp spells, two Druid of the Claw, Ancient of Lore and 2 Ironbark Protectors.

The question I have is third pick, a completely bad card of some sort. Then two bad minions. Frigid Snowbold and Frost Rager. Which one do you pick? I took Frost Rager because it can trade up. But druid has some decent spells to run with spellpower. Thoughts?

[Gandariel]

Frost Rager is average, not bad, and it was the pick.
Snobold is a bit below average.


Anyways, random thoughts:
9/9 dude. Love it. Beautiful card, fun to see and play with.
Not playable at high level.

1) Most of the times i'd rather have two 9/9s on the field than a 30/30.
2) I'd rather have Ysera and Rag than two vanilla 9/9s

Blood Warrior. I think it's a very good card!
Happy to see it, i predict Control warrior will be running one of this:
It's cheap card draw that doesn't make you fatigue, and the condition is easy for them.
The card also consistently gives you more big minions.
Like with Entomb, this "allows" you to play less big cards and more removal.

It *is* conditional to a point, but i don't see that being a huge problem. It's not an issue in the aggro matchup because it's just a weak card there (but as i said, its presence allows you to put more anti-aggro stuff in there), and it might make you recycle a heal card.
Against control, you can just wait and seize the best gain you can. You are warrior, you can take all your time.

(Warriors right now play Deathlords just to pull out more enemy minions to kill with Brawl)
Yes, yes, deathlord is also very good vs aggro. But in control matchups, i've seen that happen many times, and that's the "right" way to use him.

We might also see Echo Warriors with Moltens etc, but i can't say that for sure.

But yeah, my wild prediction of the day is that we are going to see this (maybe as a one-of) in Control warrior decks.

EDIT: For whatever reason, i didn't address Patrons in my post.
This card *sounds* like a great fit for patron.
BUT.
1) Having five Grim Patron cards in your hand is useless; you're never gonna play them all.
2) Fatigue is not an issue, most of the times
3) In most cases i'd rather draw new cards rather than get copies of my stuff (since when i Battle Rage, i'm generally fishing for something i don't have)
I do agree that if your second patron is buried in the end of your deck this card can get you more patrons, consistently. It also lets you play patron without being too afraid of board clears.
So, overall i don't know. It's hard to say. Will certainly be tried out.

[PsyBomb]

I see Blood Warrior being a 2-of in Fatigue Warrior, just because it potentially generates 2-4 solid cards without having to draw them.

[AgentPaper]

I see Blood Warrior being a 2-of in Fatigue Warrior, just because it potentially generates 2-4 solid cards without having to draw them.

Seems like it'd be great in Patron. Get extra copies of all the cards you'd really like extra copies of, namely Patron and Frothing Berserker. Maybe not a 2-of unless Patron becomes more control-y than it is right now, but it's a lot of value.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

As a note, we know Blizzard is going to nerf FoN + Savage Roar, but I'd like to ask…

Would Force of Nature and Savage Roar both be 100% okay cards if you added "All your characters that were alive at the start of your turn" to the beginning of Savage Roar's text?

[Destro_Yersul]

As a note, we know Blizzard is going to nerf FoN + Savage Roar, but I'd like to ask…

Would Force of Nature and Savage Roar both be 100% okay cards if you added "All your characters that were alive at the start of your turn" to the beginning of Savage Roar's text?

I think that'd be too wordy for a base set card. Most of those have fairly simple effects. Admittedly, I feel that Force Savage is fine as it is, and doesn't really need to be nerfed.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

"Characters that were alive at the start of your turn gain +2 Attack."

I'm pretty sure there's basic cards with more than 12 words 'somewhere'.

[Gandariel]

"Characters that were alive at the start of your turn gain +2 Attack."

I'm pretty sure there's basic cards with more than 12 words 'somewhere'.

Hearthstone uses "Give [target] [bonus] ([duration])" (Give your characters +2 attack this turn)

So your version would be "Give your characters that were alive at the start of this turn +2 attack this turn"

I feel it's a bit too complex for such a simple effect. (look at Bloodlust)

My proposal would be "make Force of Nature trees stronger, but they can't hit face".
This turns Force Savage into a strong board wipe, but at 9 mana and two cards, it's not even that amazing. Paladins do that on turn 4.

Or "Force of Nature spawns 2 big trees instead of 3 small ones".
Or both of these suggestions.
Or whatever Blizzard will come up with.


Admittedly, I feel that Force Savage is fine as it is, and doesn't really need to be nerfed.

Force Savage doesn't need to be nerfed because it's 14 damage from an empty board. Double fireball does that and nobody complains.

It needs to be nerfed because it becomes exponentially more scary if you let the druid minions stick.
Which forces you to play awkwardly and inefficiently to clear him.
Especially in the current meta where Shredder, Shade of Naxx, Belcher &co are so hard to remove.
....
Maybe since all of those cards ARE rotating out, and minions will generally get easier to clear, Force Savage WOULD become less of a problem...
But eh, they've already said they'll nerf. We'll just wait and see

[OrcusMcP]

I think that'd be too wordy for a base set card. Most of those have fairly simple effects. Admittedly, I feel that Force Savage is fine as it is, and doesn't really need to be nerfed.

In rock-paper-scissors, paper thinks scissors is over powered but rock is just fine.

edit: had it backwards.

[Destro_Yersul]

In rock-paper-scissors, paper thinks rock is over powered but scissors is just fine.

Wouldn't paper think scissors is OP? That's the one it loses to...

[Kish]

In rock-paper-scissors, paper thinks rock is over powered but scissors is just fine.
...

You might want to reconsider that post.

[Anxe]

My guess for the nerf is making Force of Nature summon treants that don't expire but also don't have charge.

[OrcusMcP]

...

You might want to reconsider that post.

I had it backwards. Ooops.

[Destro_Yersul]

It's still a bit of a strange analogy. I'm not exactly clear on what you're trying to say with it. Are you saying Force Savage is fine, or it's not fine, or it's in a quantum state of being both at once depending on how you look at it?

[OrcusMcP]

It's still a bit of a strange analogy. I'm not exactly clear on what you're trying to say with it. Are you saying Force Savage is fine, or it's not fine, or it's in a quantum state of being both at once depending on how you look at it?

It's an analogy on balance talk in general. I first heard it used with regards to WoW and Starcraft, but it applies here as well, in that most people only want to talk balance based on what it will do for their preferred card/class/ability/etc. People who use a lot of force-savage are likely to think it's just fine and needs no nerfing, while people who suffer it are plenty happy to see it get weakened.

Remember when the eater of secrets was revealed? Everyone who plays secret Paladin raged while everyone who fought against secret Paladin sighed in relief.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

It's still a bit of a strange analogy. I'm not exactly clear on what you're trying to say with it. Are you saying Force Savage is fine, or it's not fine, or it's in a quantum state of being both at once depending on how you look at it?

The analogy is that certain players run certain styles of decks, or play certain champions, or factions, or whatever is analogous for the game you're in. Given this, people will want to see the things that their 'favorite play style' is countered by nerfed, and believe that the play styles they counter are A-Ok.

Also, I literally did not notice the analogy was reversed on my first reading before it was edit-fixed. I feel silly now.

[Destro_Yersul]

But in that case, it doesn't apply, since my main deck is midrange non-secret paladin. I've played a little bit of druid, let me check...

It's not a perfect stat, since it just measures ranked wins, but I have 184 wins with Paladin, 148 with Warlock, 136 with Priest, 119 Mage, 63 with Druid, 52 each Warrior and Rogue, 49 Hunter and 4 with Shaman. I mostly play Arena, not so much constructed, and I think that only tracks wins after a certain point. I'm not sure what Paladin's matchup against Druid is, admittedly. I just know that playing against Druid is a game of 'keep your life above 14,' and I guess Paladin has a good number of tools to do that.

[Chen]

My guess for the nerf is making Force of Nature summon treants that don't expire but also don't have charge.

Would be pretty garbage like that IMO. 3 permanent 2/2s with taunt, I could get behind that as a mod to the card.

[Legoshrimp]

I think that the problem with force savage is less the 14 damage from hand for 2 cards, but more the amount of value they can get in other ways.
Also the fact that 22 damage from hand with 3 or 4 cards isn't that unreasonable.

Also druid needs to be nerfed if you don't want them to constantly be the best, or close to the best no matter what cards are released in standard.
Pretty much the only thing they lose that isn't lost by everyone else is shades. They have to find some 4 drops to replace shreders, but that isn't really the power of druid decks.

Edit:
to be more succinct druid has been one of the best decks forever, and it loses less then every other deck with the switch to standard. It needs to be nerfed or it will forever be the best deck.

[Kish]

From the position of someone who has no opinion on whether Force of Nature/Savage Roar is overpowered but thinks, based on what Blizzard said, that it will certainly be nerfed anyway, I think it would be nice if people who disagree with statements other people make would say things like "I disagree with your statement because" rather than "I observe the clear lack of objectivity in your statement, which I am not going to actually attempt to refute."

I would also like a luxury car. What? I don't have anywhere to keep a pony. Luxury cars can be resold for a lot of money.

[Gandariel]

From the position of someone who has no opinion on whether Force of Nature/Savage Roar is overpowered but thinks, based on what Blizzard said, that it will certainly be nerfed anyway, I think it would be nice if people who disagree with statements other people make would say things like "I disagree with your statement because" rather than "I observe the clear lack of objectivity in your statement, which I am not going to actually attempt to refute."

I would also like a luxury car. What? I don't have anywhere to keep a pony. Luxury cars can be resold for a lot of money.

Could you elaborate? I see nothing but constructive discussion here

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Objectively-speaking, I think that the argument for nerfing Force-Savage is easy, and it's one that Ben Brode himself made: it's a staple combo for every Druid deck that acts as a finisher. Its ubiquity is what makes it problematic. That's a good, non-subjective point to be made, because card combos should not be as ubiquitous as common burn spells (like Fireball) and board clears (Flamestrike, Holy Nova). Some decks ought to have reason to run both cards, but it shouldn't be an autoinclude for every Druid deck. So it needs nerfing.

[Joran]

Force Savage doesn't need to be nerfed because it's 14 damage from an empty board. Double fireball does that and nobody complains.

It needs to be nerfed because it becomes exponentially more scary if you let the druid minions stick.
Which forces you to play awkwardly and inefficiently to clear him.
Especially in the current meta where Shredder, Shade of Naxx, Belcher &co are so hard to remove.


As someone who just pulled off a 23 damage combo on turn 8 because I had a stealthed 7/7 Shade and Innervate, while I was dead on board, yeah, Druid is a pain in the butt.

Also, the comparison with double fireball is not exact. Combo is grabbing a copy of 2 cards with two copies each. Double Fireball is 2 of the same card. The odds of getting the Double Fireball finisher in the top half of your deck is 1/4. The odds of getting at least one copy of combo in the top half of your deck is 9/16 (I think), so you're more likely to get the combo since it's 2 different cards.

Also, it's not 14, it's 16 at 10 mana (Combo + Living Roots). It's 22 damage (FoN + Double Savage Roar) if they get a tick of Thaurissan off or have an innervate in hand, which is really relevant for control decks. Druids can pull some really insane burst damage out of nowhere if they draw well and Thaurissan hits the right cards.

The rest of the deck fits neatly into it. Druid has pretty good card draw with Ancient of Lores, Cycling Wraths, Wild Growth, and depending on the deck list, Azure Drakes. So, it doesn't run of steam as often as other midrange decks. Tack on the sticky minions as Gandariel mentions and it's an annoying deck. That's not to mention the turn 2 Dr. Boom...

I think Midrange Druid is on the strong side of balanced, but I agree with Blizzard's stance about changing it because Midrange Combo Druid is always going to exist since all the cards needed for it are in Classic.

Edit: New Card. They revealed the new card. It's Always Huffer... and Misha... and Leokk.

8 Mana, Summon All Three Animal Companions. On first look, it looks good. Most of them time, if you staple two cards together into one card, it becomes much better. Animal Companions were already undercosted because it was random, but now you get 3 undercosted cards on an undercosted card. We'll see if Midrange Hunter is still a thing in Standard, but it looks really good at least as a one-off.

[The Glyphstone]

A 5/4 Taunt, 5/2 Charge, and 2/4 buff-monkey for 8? That is indeed a very good card, but can it find a deck to support it?

[Thialfi]

Call of the Wild is disgustingly good. It really shines a light on the fact that both mage epics and both paladin epics are complete garbage.


Call of the wild goes into every single hunter deck. It's an amazing finisher for face decks and insane value for just about every deck you can imagine.

[PsyBomb]

Edit: New Card. They revealed the new card. It's Always Huffer... and Misha... and Leokk.

8 Mana, Summon All Three Animal Companions. On first look, it looks good. Most of them time, if you staple two cards together into one card, it becomes much better. Animal Companions were already undercosted because it was random, but now you get 3 undercosted cards on an undercosted card. We'll see if Midrange Hunter is still a thing in Standard, but it looks really good at least as a one-off.

Link to it? I'm thinking of assembling a Midrange Hunter once my budget Face deck is set, and this sounds like a good finisher for it. Brings it out further on the curve, but three solid bodies for 8 is no joke.

[The Glyphstone]

http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/attachments/29/636/4f2b9622.png

Text:
Call of the Wild
Epic Hunter Spell (8)
Summon all three Animal Companions.

[GAAD]

But since we can only have 7 minions on board and this summons 3 at once...
What order do they come in? If I'm paying 8 mana for only 1 or 2 Animal Companions, you can bet your left arm I'll be wanting to know EXACTLY what I get.
Unless the order is random.

It's random, isn't it.
Ia! Ia! eSportal Ftagn!

[The Glyphstone]

It's always Huffer.

[Infernally Clay]

The cost is prohibitive but the effect itself is amazing. You get a 5/2 with Charge and a 5/4 with taunt. If you can get a discount and play Unleash the Hounds as well, then damn... That's a finisher if I ever saw one.

But Hunter will never run an eight mana spell. You hardly see any Ball of Spiders as it is and this card is way more expensive.

[Legoshrimp]

Honestly my guess is we will see more of the mage and paladin epic. While this is a good card it doesn't really fit into hunter right now.

Although I wouldn't be that surprised to be wrong, and a midrange or control hunter actually takes off. But I keep seeing people trying it and them never really working out long term. Also highmane is probably still better because it comes out two turns earlier, isn't weak to aoe, and doesn't die to 4 damage removal.



The cost is prohibitive but the effect itself is amazing. You get a 5/2 with Charge and a 5/4 with taunt. If you can get a discount and play Unleash the Hounds as well, then damn... That's a finisher if I ever saw one.

But Hunter will never run an eight mana spell. You hardly see any Ball of Spiders as it is and this card is way more expensive.

The problem with ball of spiders is that it doesn't have any board pressure. you are spending 6* mana to draw 3 random cards basically.



Hmm that makes me wonder would it be played if it was instead summon 3 1/1 spiders, draw 3 cards. My guess is yes. The immediate effect and having control over the draws is probably enough to make it good.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Midrange Hunter was definitely a thing, and this is a great way to replace the Boom slot in Midrange Hunter. It shouldn't be compared to Highmane, because it's a followup to Highmane. Here's what it gets you...

1. Board stabilization: you clear a 5-health minion and put up a 5-attack taunt
2. Forward momentum: Unleash the Hounds becomes a lot stronger after you play this
3. Requiring an answer: your opponent now has to find a way to deal with three minions, and if they AoE, you both just spent one card apiece, and you have a massive tempo advantage since they had to react to you

Ball of Spiders isn't run because that card is way, way, way too slow. You spend 6 mana + the mana for the beasts, and eventually you get payoff on that. It takes multiple turns to pay off, and it doesn't really get you anything more than expensive random card draw (and three 1/1 pings). This is so much better than Ball of Spiders. For 8 mana, you immediately get three beasts (who are worth about 3.5 mana apiece, and you only spent one card instead of three), including one that deals 5 damage right away. That's perfect for an 8-mana spell. (Compare to Lay on Hands.)

This card is going to be mandatory in any non-Facehunter, and it's going to be one of the strong defining cards of the new meta. Hunter still doesn't have a good 7-drop, but Highmane T6 into something with decent value T7 into T8 Call of the Wild is going to be fantastic. Even better, it's the second Hunter card (next to Unleash the Hounds) that can really help you come from behind.

[Mando Knight]

But since we can only have 7 minions on board and this summons 3 at once...
What order do they come in? If I'm paying 8 mana for only 1 or 2 Animal Companions, you can bet your left arm I'll be wanting to know EXACTLY what I get.
Unless the order is random.

It's random, isn't it.
Ia! Ia! eSportal Ftagn!

Alphabetical (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/717784748094042112), actually. Always Huffer. (And then Leokk and Misha)

[Joran]

Midrange Hunter was definitely a thing, and this is a great way to replace the Boom slot in Midrange Hunter. It shouldn't be compared to Highmane, because it's a followup to Highmane. Here's what it gets you...

1. Board stabilization: you clear a 5-health minion and put up a 5-attack taunt
2. Forward momentum: Unleash the Hounds becomes a lot stronger after you play this
3. Requiring an answer: your opponent now has to find a way to deal with three minions, and if they AoE, you both just spent one card apiece, and you have a massive tempo advantage since they had to react to you

Ball of Spiders isn't run because that card is way, way, way too slow. You spend 6 mana + the mana for the beasts, and eventually you get payoff on that. It takes multiple turns to pay off, and it doesn't really get you anything more than expensive random card draw (and three 1/1 pings). This is so much better than Ball of Spiders. For 8 mana, you immediately get three beasts (who are worth about 3.5 mana apiece, and you only spent one card instead of three), including one that deals 5 damage right away. That's perfect for an 8-mana spell. (Compare to Lay on Hands.)

This card is going to be mandatory in any non-Facehunter, and it's going to be one of the strong defining cards of the new meta. Hunter still doesn't have a good 7-drop, but Highmane T6 into something with decent value T7 into T8 Call of the Wild is going to be fantastic. Even better, it's the second Hunter card (next to Unleash the Hounds) that can really help you come from behind.

Agreed with everything said here. Midrange Hunter was a really strong archetype early in Hearthstone before Secret Paladin and Zoo ensured that Hunter could never ever build a board; this is also why Midrange Shaman/Totem Shaman never happened, because once Hunter or Shaman lost the board, they were basically done.

My old Midrange Hunter topped out sometimes at Ragnaros. It's not the mana cost that matters, it's tempo. Ball of Spiders is a really big Tempo loss; you're paying 6 mana for 3/3 in stats. What you gain is value, each of those 1/1s is another card. There's no Hunter archetype that's competitive that would be able to overcome that humongous loss of tempo. Call of the Wild however has really good tempo in it's 12/10 in stats and 5/2 of that is charging.

[PsyBomb]

Portals for Brawl again, but something odd is happening to me. Is anyone else getting a HUGE number of Legendary minions? More than half of my portals cast (8 out of 14 so far) generated elites, and the rate is seeming true for enemies as well.

[GAAD]

Who has two thumbs and a golden Ragnaros the Firelord?
THIS GUY(atadesk)!!!
Best.
Brawl.
Ever.

[Grytorm]

Call of the Wild is probably good. I wish it cost 7 just so it would be even better.

[Anarion]

Call of the Wild is probably good. I wish it cost 7 just so it would be even better.

If it cost 7, it would probably be too powerful and you'd start to dislike it because it would appear in every hunter deck and hunters would be too common. Like how everyone complains about mysterious challenger now.

[Rodin]

Portals for Brawl again, but something odd is happening to me. Is anyone else getting a HUGE number of Legendary minions? More than half of my portals cast (8 out of 14 so far) generated elites, and the rate is seeming true for enemies as well.

I think it's just RNJesus, I've had runs like that followed by 5 cards in a row that cost 2 or less (before the discount).

I did have one Druid that decided it would be a good idea to Astral Communion on turn 4. In a Brawl in which mana is basically irrelevant.

That was an easy win.

[Zevox]

Hm, I'm not as confident as others that Call of the Wild is that good. I see the arguments for it, but... 8 mana. That's awfully expensive, cards that cost that much have to be awfully potent to justify actually seeing use. Ragnaros, Grommash, and Tirion are the three that have seen the most use over time, followed to a much lesser degree by Al'Akir, Rhonin, and Kel'Thuzad. I don't really think this is on the same level as cards like those - okay, you can probably make an argument for it being more consistent than KT, but that's the reason he only ever saw niche use in a specific type of Ramp Druid, and I'd argue that when he actually uses his effect he's a significantly stronger card than Call of the Wild.

Basically, I'm not sure that spending 8 mana to get 3 small-to-medium minions, only one of which does something immediately, is going to be all that good, especially since Hunter as a class is not inclined towards slower deck types, which a card that expensive would want to be in. I think it's probably too slow for Midrange Hunter, and I doubt any Hunter slower than that will be good with this expansion, or possibly ever. Though I will end with the admission that the fact that I don't play Hunter at all does mean it's entirely possible I'm just not any good at judging whether this card will work for Midrange Hunter.

Should be strong in arena though, I don't doubt that.

[Joran]

Call of the Wild is probably good. I wish it cost 7 just so it would be even better.

3 Animal Companions is 9 mana. 8 mana is already a discount and it's one card that has the ability of 3 cards. If Midrange Hunter is any good, it'll be talked about as being Dr. 8. 7 mana would be insanity.

[Destro_Yersul]

Yeah, Call fo the Wild is insane in Arena. I think in Constructed it's pretty good, since you can use it as a Dr. Boom replacement. It's not vulnerable to BGH, and most AOE will only remove 1/3 of it right out. Plus the Huffer does damage right away. I could absolutely see using a Thaurissan tick to drop this on 7 for crazy value.

[thirsting]

Brawl. I get Hemet Nesingwary from portal. Then Hungry Crab. Oh, sheesh..

Enemy plays Mounted Raptor. I kill it with Hemet. Raptor summons 2/1 murloc. ..... :smallbiggrin:

Didn't affect the game in any meaningful way, of course, but... that was perfect.

[GAAD]

Brawl. I get Hemet Nesingwary from portal. Then Hungry Crab. Oh, sheesh..

Enemy plays Mounted Raptor. I kill it with Hemet. Raptor summons 2/1 murloc. ..... :smallbiggrin:

Didn't affect the game in any meaningful way, of course, but... that was perfect.

Nope. Free golden Rag beats that any day.

[Gandariel]

I'll echo Zevox's doubts about the Hunter card.

Yes, eight is less than nine, but that doesn't immediately make it amazing.

I agree that it's definitely not a bad card.
I do struggle to think of ways Hunter could use it.

Savannah Highmane is better than this, no question.
And in a midrange Hunter that runs 8- cost stuff... I think I'd rather get Rag and hope he closes games the turn I play it.
...
Or King Krush, even.

But we'll see.

[boomwolf]

Forget midrange hunter, thus could work well in promoting control hunter, providing a charge finisher, taunt and board buff all in one card. And the instant board presence is one of the biggest out there, 3 cards who would be decent 4 drops on thier own.
It's a Swiss army card. It doesn't do any one thing spectacularly, but it does multiple things.

[Legoshrimp]

Forget midrange hunter, thus could work well in promoting control hunter, providing a charge finisher, taunt and board buff all in one card. And the instant board presence is one of the biggest out there, 3 cards who would be decent 4 drops on thier own.
It's a Swiss army card. It doesn't do any one thing spectacularly, but it does multiple things.

None of them would be a decent 4 drop.

I think the main problem with it is that it isn't an amazing deck enabling card. It is a solid card that helps a generally bad deck type. It might be enough to push it from being bad, but honestly losing boom more then offsets it I think.

[Zevox]

Brawl. I get Hemet Nesingwary from portal. Then Hungry Crab. Oh, sheesh..

Enemy plays Mounted Raptor. I kill it with Hemet. Raptor summons 2/1 murloc. ..... :smallbiggrin:

Didn't affect the game in any meaningful way, of course, but... that was perfect.
I did pull Hungry Crab the turn after an opponent played Puddlestomper in one of my Brawl games. Actually took me a minute to realize I could actually use it, because I'm just so used to Hungry Crab being garbage, but boy was I happy when I realized it.


Forget midrange hunter, thus could work well in promoting control hunter, providing a charge finisher, taunt and board buff all in one card. And the instant board presence is one of the biggest out there, 3 cards who would be decent 4 drops on thier own.
It's a Swiss army card. It doesn't do any one thing spectacularly, but it does multiple things.
If cards like Steamwheedle Sniper, Power Shot, and Lock 'n Load failed to make a control Hunter work, I seriously doubt this will.

[otakuryoga]

I predict we will see a hunter minion that reduces cost of spells that summon beasts

[Destro_Yersul]

I did pull Hungry Crab the turn after an opponent played Puddlestomper in one of my Brawl games. Actually took me a minute to realize I could actually use it, because I'm just so used to Hungry Crab being garbage, but boy was I happy when I realized it.

When it actually works, Hungry Crab is the best one-drop in the game. To be fair, though, I forget about it all the time. I forgot it existed the whole time I was trying to beat Heroic Giantfin.

[Legoshrimp]

I predict we will see a hunter minion that reduces cost of spells that summon beasts

Beast tamer's Apprentice.
3/2 for 2: ability your spells that summon beasts cost (1) less.

You know with cards like ice rager and Evil heckler maybe...

Edit:
Also obligatory artosis vs trump game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8WOHcSe_4Q

[Thialfi]

I don't care for the portals brawl but it made for a real interesting win for me yesterday.

Unstable portal gives me Elise. I play Elise.
Rogue opponent plays gang up on my Elise.
I almost immediately draw the map and play it.
I play Mirror Entity.
Rogue opponent plays Elise giving me a second copy of Elise.
I draw the Golden Monkey and play it.
One of the legendary cards in my hand is Elise and I play her giving me three copies of her, plus the golden monkey vs. one Elise for my opponent.

[Grytorm]

Posting again about starting another arena run. My last one went 7 wins including one where I got a lucky top deck of a Starfire. Overall I felt like my deck was solid but I might have traded inefficiently throughout. And I might have misplayed Raven Idol.

So I started another arena as warrior. I'm not as confident about this deck, the card quality feels a little lower. But I did pick up a decent amount of early game and two Death's Bites. So this will hopefully go well. Only picks I really regret was taking Earthen Ring Farseer over Dragonling Mechanic, I had a few weak 4 drops which I didn't account for (Tomb Spider and Kezan Mystic). And probably the Gurabashi Beserker was a terrible idea. With luck he will work out with the Death's Bites.

Also is it better to post arena related things in the Arena thread? I don't know if that is for all arena or mostly the group Arena runs.

[thirsting]

It's meant only for drafting Arena decks together. Any other arena stuff should be in this thread.

....

Also, brawl moment:
My very first portal gave me Lorewalker Cho. Shrugged and played it thinking, hey, more portals fun for everyone! Except that enemy warlock had Curse of Rafaam. Rest of the game, we did nothing but exchanged curses back and worth. Did not end well for me. (Did a mistake and played the CoR card itself instead of the curse, at first. D'oh!)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

My best Brawl moment so far...

T1: pass
T2: Unstable Portal, get a Violet Teacher (cost: 1 mana)
T3: Violet Teacher, Unstable Portal (generating a 1/1 token), get a Summoning Stone from the portal (cost: 2 mana)
T4: Summoning Stone, Mark of the Wild on the 1/1, generating another 1/1 and a Micro Machine

It kinda went downhill from there. :smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

Only picks I really regret was taking Earthen Ring Farseer over Dragonling Mechanic, I had a few weak 4 drops which I didn't account for (Tomb Spider and Kezan Mystic).

Tomb Spider is actually a pretty good card for Warrior. Its stats aren't fantastic, but it has a high chance of giving you another Fierce Monkey. Dragonling Mechanic isn't so good, unless you have ways to buff multiple minions simultaneously.

[Grytorm]

Its not that I think Tomb Spider is a bad card. It just is that I wish I had another card which is best on turn 4. I think I ended up with about three or four cards like that.

[Mando Knight]

And now, the last of the Old Gods (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20079876/whispers-of-the-old-gods-its-never-a-yawn-with-yogg-saron-4-7-2016):
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/ns/NSJMX58KA7I71459988929592.gif

Yogg-Saron, Hope's End

10 Mana 7/5 Legendary Neutral Minion

Battlecry: Cast a random spell for each spell you've cast this game (Targets chosen randomly).

And another Warlock spell: Did someone say BOMBS?!?
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/ZW3BYEWMIJMO1459987555494.png

Spreading Madness

3 Mana Rare Warlock Spell

Deal 9 damage randomly split among ALL characters.

[Hamste]

Yogg-Saron is pretty funny. Kind of good simply because of spells that only target the enemy and drawing but too random to really be used in constructed I think. Would have to see how warriors and mages work out with it though (Warrior because they cast an ok number of spells and are capable of getting armor so they are less likely to just die from playng it. Mages just because of spell synergy. Imagine if you play this guy with a flamewaker on the board or a mana wyrm that actually lives).


Warlock card might actually be good as it is a catch up mechanic but Warlock already has some great AoE.

[Mando Knight]

Yogg-Saron will be going into every Trolden-hopeful Tempo Mage deck, ever. In a high-spells deck, he's literally RNGesus, capable of winning the game or losing it entirely at random.

[The Glyphstone]

Yogg-Saron:

*Pyroblast own face*
*Pyroblast own face*
*Pyroblast own face*

[Rodin]

The Warlock spell seems weak. Okay, it seems like a decent catch-up card on paper...until you remember that Hellfire exists. If you're 3 minions behind, Hellfire reliably does 9 damage to them AND 3 damage to your enemy's face. Spreading Madness becomes better in comparison if there are fewer minions...but that also increases the chances that you'll deal 9 damage straight into your own face.

It's kinda like how Mad Bomber is considered better than Madder Bomber. Less randomness is better, and you're less likely to screw yourself over.

For Arena, it'll probably be a decent pick-up because you can't guarantee getting Hellfire. You're more likely to be behind on board with no other way to catch up there, so it'll be a great emergency spell.

[turbo164]

I'm sure someone with time (and is not at site-blocked work) will come up with spreadsheets to show the % of targeted spells (Fireball, Healing Wave, Blessing of Kings etc) vs spells that are usually pure upside (Consecration, Bear Trap, Unstable Portal etc) vs situational (Hellfire, new hellfire, Twisting Nether, new twisting nether, Dark Bargain...Brawl, Sprint etc)

It will be a bonus more often than a penalty (and it had better with that Vanilla Test failure...) but *how often* is kinda important.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yogg-Saron is hilarious and I want one. I think it would be amazing to run a Miracle Rogue deck that has the express purpose of casting as many spells as possible, then unleashing Yogg-Saron on Turn 10 and watching utter chaos ensue while laughing madly at the results. It won't always be spectacular, but sometimes it will be the biggest hilarity ever.

I like Spreading Madness as an anti-flood tech in Renolock, and there it basically works as a second Hellfire. For Renolock, that's important, because it only runs one Hellfire to begin with.

[Mando Knight]

Yogg-Saron is hilarious and I want one. I think it would be amazing to run a Miracle Rogue deck that has the express purpose of casting as many spells as possible, then unleashing Yogg-Saron on Turn 10 and watching utter chaos ensue while laughing madly at the results. It won't always be spectacular, but sometimes it will be the biggest hilarity ever.

I like Spreading Madness as an anti-flood tech in Renolock, and there it basically works as a second Hellfire. For Renolock, that's important, because it only runs one Hellfire to begin with.

You've got Demonwrath as Hellfire #2, except vs Zoolock.

[Joran]

Yogg-Saron is hilarious and I want one. I think it would be amazing to run a Miracle Rogue deck that has the express purpose of casting as many spells as possible, then unleashing Yogg-Saron on Turn 10 and watching utter chaos ensue while laughing madly at the results. It won't always be spectacular, but sometimes it will be the biggest hilarity ever.

I like Spreading Madness as an anti-flood tech in Renolock, and there it basically works as a second Hellfire. For Renolock, that's important, because it only runs one Hellfire to begin with.

Renolock has Demonwrath (part of BRM and still in Standard) for more AoE wipe. In my Renolock deck, I have one Hellfire, one Demonwrath, one MCTech, one Shadowflame, and one Twisting Nether, all of them still in Standard, so I should be good in my catchup mechanics without Spreading Madness.

P.S. I can't wait until someone plays Yogg-Saron with a Lorewalker Cho, plays 60 spells, and then Brann + Yogg for fun.

Also, Yogg can target himself...

[Darth Mario]

Yogg-Saron, Lord of the Tie Game

[Legoshrimp]

Can the random spells be unplayable? like can you get a shadow word when there are no minions?
My guess would be no, but I could see them just fizzling.
Although it would be funny if they just target a hero if there is no valid target.

[PsyBomb]

Disappointed by Yogg-Saron. Obvious goal is going to be to cast him with as few legal targets left on your side as you can, but knowing my luck he'll Pyroblast my fave, Power Overwhelming himself, then finish with an Astral Communion. Another strict-casual card, nobody is going to spend 10 mana on an effect that can screw you that hard.

That said, my casual Tempo Mage deck just got a new best friend.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Can the random spells be unplayable? like can you get a shadow word when there are no minions?
My guess would be no, but I could see them just fizzling.
Although it would be funny if they just target a hero if there is no valid target.
It fizzles. (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/718126188678479872)

And apparently "Choose One" and "Discover" effects are randomly selected (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/718125677321523200).

Honestly, if you're going to include bad cards in a set, these kinds of wacky cards are what you should include.

[Mando Knight]

Can the random spells be unplayable? like can you get a shadow word when there are no minions?
My guess would be no, but I could see them just fizzling.
Although it would be funny if they just target a hero if there is no valid target.

From the official Hearthstone twitter (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone):

Yogg-Saron chooses a valid target from all characters on the board. If there is no valid target, the spell fizzles.
In the case of Choose One or Discover spells, Yogg-Saron chooses (randomly).
Yogg-Saron casts any Collectible spell, and like other Random effects will only choose Standard ones if you are in a Standard game.
Forbidden cards will still use up any extra mana you may have found somewhere (i.e. Innervate or reducing the cost on Yogg-Saron)
Yogg-Saron's spells will not trigger minions like Mana Wyrm or Flamewaker, as Y-S is casting them, not you.

[Chen]

If spells are completely randomly targeted including letting fireballs hit you and your guys, I suspect it's going to be a pretty poor card. Course I don't really expect "smart" casting of the spells either (i.e., buffs on your guys, damage on your opponent and their guys etc).

[Infernally Clay]

Yogg is amazing. I need to craft that guy as soon as possible. The insanity of it will be hilarious.

[GolemsVoice]

http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/GolemsVoice/Hearthstone%20Screenshot%2004-07-16%2020.15.54_zps4qfzcaky.png

Also, it's funny that Yogg-Saron will actually cast them. Imagine an Old God springing forth from his hellish dimension, only to decide which spell or minion his player might need (or deserve).

"MORTALS! MADNESS IS UPON YOU. And Flame Lance, yeah. Also, you there, guy with the hammer? Have a mana crystal."

[Mando Knight]

http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/GolemsVoice/Hearthstone%20Screenshot%2004-07-16%2020.15.54_zps4qfzcaky.png

I hope you dropped the Doomsayer before finishing him off. Because THE END IS COMING, after all.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

If spells are completely randomly targeted including letting fireballs hit you and your guys, I suspect it's going to be a pretty poor card. Course I don't really expect "smart" casting of the spells either (i.e., buffs on your guys, damage on your opponent and their guys etc).
Only insofar as it says "friendly" or "enemy" in the spell.

[Anarion]

Yogg is probably positive on balance. Damage and kill spells are net neutral across a large number of casts, and there are more spells that automatically benefit you or automatically harm enemies (e.g. flamecannon, shield block etc.) than there are spells that would totally screw you and lose the game if cast wrong. Still too random game to game to trust, but I'd bet he's like 60-70% favorable overall.

At any rate, I look forward to the YouTube highlights.

[ChaosOS]

It's sad that he doesn't even trigger things like Flamewaker. Well, I guess into Casino mage he goes.

[turbo164]

At any rate, I look forward to the YouTube highlights.

Yeah he could fill a Trolden video singlehandedly. Besides the amazing comebacks and hit-own-face provided by existing cards like Mad Bomber and Spellslinger, Yogg can pull off some trolling like:

"Sweet, Fireball their face...Avenging Wrath...Nourish, whatever...Consecration, they're at 3 health!...aaand Tree of Life."

"Animal Companion...Resurrect my Sylvanus...Ice Lance on Leokk, whatever...Blessing of Kings on my Yogg...Aaand Twisting Nether."

:smallbiggrin:

[Anarion]

Yeah he could fill a Trolden video singlehandedly. Besides the amazing comebacks and hit-own-face provided by existing cards like Mad Bomber and Spellslinger, Yogg can pull off some trolling like:

"Sweet, Fireball their face...Avenging Wrath...Nourish, whatever...Consecration, they're at 3 health!...aaand Tree of Life."

"Animal Companion...Resurrect my Sylvanus...Ice Lance on Leokk, whatever...Blessing of Kings on my Yogg...Aaand Twisting Nether."

:smallbiggrin:

sprint, sprint, sprint, vanish. "Well, guess all my board is dead now."

[Mando Knight]

Yeah he could fill a Trolden video singlehandedly. Besides the amazing comebacks and hit-own-face provided by existing cards like Mad Bomber and Spellslinger, Yogg can pull off some trolling like:

"Sweet, Fireball their face...Avenging Wrath...Nourish, whatever...Consecration, they're at 3 health!...aaand Tree of Life."

"Animal Companion...Resurrect my Sylvanus...Ice Lance on Leokk, whatever...Blessing of Kings on my Yogg...Aaand Twisting Nether."

:smallbiggrin:

Yogg-Saron, Hope's End: 10 Mana 7/5, Battlecry: Record the next Trolden highlight

[Hamste]

Or even funnier at 30 health against an opponent with 2 hp with 5 cards left in your deck and then non-stop sprints until you die from fatigue.

[PsyBomb]

Or even funnier at 30 health against an opponent with 2 hp with 5 cards left in your deck and then non-stop sprints until you die from fatigue.

Pyroblast on an Argent Squire that has a shield up might be hilarious

[Zevox]

And now, the last of the Old Gods (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20079876/whispers-of-the-old-gods-its-never-a-yawn-with-yogg-saron-4-7-2016):
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/ns/NSJMX58KA7I71459988929592.gif

Yogg-Saron, Hope's End

10 Mana 7/5 Legendary Neutral Minion

Battlecry: Cast a random spell for each spell you've cast this game (Targets chosen randomly).
Yeah, that's probably too much random to ever be good. It could do basically anything - kill your opponent, kill you, wipe your opponent's board, wipe your board, wipe the entire board, build either side's board up with buffs or weirder spells like Ancestor's Call, draw a bunch of cards, discard cards (Soulfire), heal anything or everything, there's just absolutely no consistency to it. Definitely the worst of the Old Gods.


And another Warlock spell: Did someone say BOMBS?!?
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/ZW3BYEWMIJMO1459987555494.png

Spreading Madness

3 Mana Rare Warlock Spell

Deal 9 damage randomly split among ALL characters.
That, on the other hand, maybe. That is a lot of damage for the mana - 1 more than Avenging Wrath for half the mana cost. If your board is empty and the opponent has a few things on it, it's probably pretty darn good. The main question is whether the existence of Hellfire, Shadowflame, and Demonwrath invalidate it, and they very well might. Maybe a card we revisit in a year when Demonwrath cycles out?

[Hamste]

Pyroblast on an Argent Squire that has a shield up might be hilarious

Pyroblast on a force tank max with a divine shield up and then silence.

[Anarion]

Yeah, that's probably too much random to ever be good. It could do basically anything - kill your opponent, kill you, wipe your opponent's board, wipe your board, wipe the entire board, build either side's board up with buffs or weirder spells like Ancestor's Call, draw a bunch of cards, discard cards (Soulfire), heal anything or everything, there's just absolutely no consistency to it. Definitely the worst of the Old Gods.


That, on the other hand, maybe. That is a lot of damage for the mana - 1 more than Avenging Wrath for half the mana cost. If your board is empty and the opponent has a few things on it, it's probably pretty darn good. The main question is whether the existence of Hellfire, Shadowflame, and Demonwrath invalidate it, and they very well might. Maybe a card we revisit in a year when Demonwrath cycles out?

Omg, Zevox, I know you negatively evaluate literally every card ever spoiled, but nobody cares about the power level on Yog at all. It's clearly the best of the old gods just for the highlights and will be incredibly fun to play with.

[Zevox]

Omg, Zevox, I know you negatively evaluate literally every card ever spoiled, but nobody cares about the power level on Yog at all. It's clearly the best of the old gods just for the highlights and will be incredibly fun to play with.
I do not negatively evaluate every card - I literally gave a more positive evaluation of one than most in the very post you quoted, in fact - and yes, some of us do care about the power level of each. And I for one don't think this would be fun - that much RNG is never fun for me. (See for instance the fact that my favorite Brawls are ones like Ragnaros v Nefarian, KT v Rafaam, or the tag-team v Mechazod (?) ones, while the total RNG ones like Crossroads I play only until I get the pack and never touch again.)

[Kish]

*cough* Would Soulfire discard the player's cards, or would it discard one of Yogg-Saron's cards?

[Zevox]

*cough* Would Soulfire discard the player's cards, or would it discard one of Yogg-Saron's cards?
I would assume the former, since the latter doesn't exist.

[GAAD]

Yours. Yogg'Saron casts spells that trigger as if you cast them on a valid target, but it doesn't count mechanically (ie Troggzor, Mana Wyrm, etc.)

[Anarion]

*cough* Would Soulfire discard the player's cards, or would it discard one of Yogg-Saron's cards?

I'd guess the latter and no discard happens. The player didn't cast it.

edit: I don't want to get into a debate about card evaluations, but "might possibly see play a year from now" is not exactly a positive evaluation.

[Anxe]

Yogg doesn't "come into play" until all the spells have resolved right? So he can't be hit by his own Blessing of Kings or his own Fireball or eliminated by his own Twisting Nether.

[Zevox]

edit: I don't want to get into a debate about card evaluations, but "might possibly see play a year from now" is not exactly a positive evaluation.
That was not the entirety of what I said, though. I said the card seems as though it could be pretty good - it's only problem is that it has a lot of competition which may or may not overshadow it. It's a little hard to be sure at this point.

I'll add that I think it's probably good for arena, which I forgot to mention initially.

[Kish]

Yogg-Saron is a valid target for any spell he casts that can hit friendly minions, they've said.

[Zevox]

Here's another nasty thought for Yogg-Saron: do you get overloaded if he casts spells with that? I'd wager the answer is yes, which could lead to some pretty bad things (i.e. Elemental Destruction)...

[Kish]

No. They've answered that, too.

[Zevox]

No. They've answered that, too.
Really? Surprising. But at least it prevents one type of scenario where the card could screw you over for playing it.

[Kish]

Same reason your Mana Wyrm doesn't get buffed and Cho doesn't copy the spells: You're not casting the spells, Yogg-Saron is. Presumably he gets Overload, but it doesn't affect him, since he doesn't have mana.

[Mando Knight]

Yogg doesn't "come into play" until all the spells have resolved right? So he can't be hit by his own Blessing of Kings or his own Fireball or eliminated by his own Twisting Nether.

Battlecries occur after the minion has entered the field, but before "after play/summon" effects occur. Thus, Yogg-Saron is on the board and can randomly target himself with his random spells, provided he is a valid target for his spells.

[PsyBomb]

No. They've answered that, too.

So, where's the FAQ, and can you give us a rundown? Which negative card effects do you suffer (besides being targeted by them, of course).

Forgot to talk about the warlock card. 3:1 damage to mana ratio is unprecedented on any card so far acting on its own, other than Arcane Missiles. I'm thinking of it as a Maddest Bomber without the body. That's... not really all that good. Assuming you have nothing on board and your opponent's is full, you'll still take one of the hits on average each time. Maybe paired with things like Patron, Gang Boss, or Acolyte which enjoy taking damage? Still too random for my tastes, but better.

Patron Warlock might be entertaining, especially if C'thun becomes popular.

[Kish]

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/33168-yogg-saron-hopes-end has a lot of them, though it doesn't include the Overload answer (which is on twitter).

No Overload, spells which don't have a legitimate target (Execute when no minion is injured) will be cast and fizzle, Yogg-Saron can target himself with anything that could hit a friendly minion with his characteristics (Shadow Word Death yes, Shadow Word Pain no, for example), if it's Discover or Choose One Yogg-Saron makes the choice at random, since Yogg-Saron is casting them and not you it doesn't interact with Gallywix or Cho or Mana Wyrm, he does treat your minions as "friendly" and the opponent's minions as "enemy," if he kills himself (...or turns himself into a sheep...) partway through he still casts all the rest of the spells called by his Battlecry. No word yet on whether it can discard your cards or will instead discard Yogg-Saron's nonexistent cards.

New card, Cho'Gall: 7 mana cost 7/7 legendary warlock minion, the next spell you cast the turn you summon him costs Health instead of Mana.

[Hamste]

Just saw him. Cho'Gall is pretty good.

Also a thing for Yogg Saron

http://yoggsaronsimulator.herokuapp.com/?n=14&s=on

[Anarion]

Cho'gall is nice. That's a really strong effect.

[Zevox]

New card, Cho'Gall: 7 mana cost 7/7 legendary warlock minion, the next spell you cast the turn you summon him costs Health instead of Mana.
Huh, nice indeed. Could easily see play in both Handlock and Renolock. Although he's perhaps not quite as consistent as he might seem at first glance, since he does require you to have a spell that is useful to play on the same turn as him in your hand in order to be more than just a vanilla 7/7. Hm, thinking about that, maybe the first-glance reaction is a bit on the optimistic side... but this is Warlock, where you're more likely than not to have a large hand...

Eh, might not want to declare him too great before we get to see how he works out in practice, but I think he is probably strong.

[Destro_Yersul]

Yogg is hilarious, but not good. Will show up mostly in Trolden highlights. Absolutely silly card, ought to be great fun. I'll run it. Just... not competetively. :smalltongue:

Cho'Gall, on the other hand, seems pretty good. Better in constructed than Arena, probably best in Renolock. Huge tempo swing if you play him at the right time. Warlock usually has a lot of cards in hand, but if his effect doesn't hit he's just a war golem so you aren't guaranteed he'll be good on 7. Still, I think he'll see play.

[Sith_Happens]

Confirmed: RNGesus has secretly been Yogg-Saron the whole time.

THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.

[PsyBomb]

Confirmed: RNGesus has secretly been Yogg-Saron the whole time.

THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.

WHY does this forum not have a like button? I needed that laugh.

[Zevox]

Confirmed: RNGesus has secretly been Yogg-Saron the whole time.

THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.
I think we just found Yogg-Saron's nickname. :smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

Just saw him. Cho'Gall is pretty good.

Also a thing for Yogg Saron

http://yoggsaronsimulator.herokuapp.com/?n=14&s=on

Rolling that around a few times, and it looks like Y-S will pull a relatively safe spell (i.e. enemy-only removal, Secrets, friendly-only buffs) around half the time, and most of the other half is dependent on which target he picks for the spell. If you've cast around 20 spells that game, Y-S will likely fizzle one or two of his.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

*cough* Would Soulfire discard the player's cards, or would it discard one of Yogg-Saron's cards?
The Hearthstone Twitter has been giving out answers that are bizarrely inconsistent, in terms of how it should intuitively work.

Because...

Lorewalker Cho/Archmage Antonidas/Flamewaker don't trigger, ostensibly because Yogg-Saron is casting the spells, and not the player, and therefore neither does Overload. That's simple enough. But Innervate and Wild Growth cast by Yogg-Saron affect your mana crystals (Wild Growth cast by Yoggy will actually give you an Excess Mana card if you have 10 mana), and Forbidden spells will drain any mana you had (and use your mana as a baseline). So it seems to me that they're not actually following that rule they stated, and it's more like "we're going to selectively let some cards interact with you, and some cards won't be allowed to interact with you".

Also, apparently Lock and Load (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/718215086951763968) will not give you cards when Yogg-Saron casts spells, but you'll get cards if you yourself cast spells that turn. And the Overload thing "may change" (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/718195512386678786), so who knows what they're basing that decision on.

So I have literally no idea what Blizz is doing with this card. It's a simple mechanic that's way more complex than it appears in implementation, and they seem to be adopting a very haphazard way of implementing it.