OOTS #1043 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Majiy]

Great, now I want a stake steak.

[dancrilis]

Go Belkar and Andi - I like em.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Belkar is shaping up to be quite reasonable these days.

[Ivrytwr]

Ah, Death's little helper. Belkar!
Always good for the laughs.
Back to the chase! Thanks Giant!

[Anarion]

The greatest tragedy of all is that the misunderstanding seems to have prevented Belkar from contributing his culinary talents to the ship.

[Mith]

Were the steaks tasty, though? Belkar is a gourmet chef after all.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

What does it mean when Holy Water burns your skin? (asking for a friend). :smallwink:

[BowStreetRunner]

Keep an eye on that engineer. She just easily disarmed Belkar!

[Velazquez]

Giant is such a master in decelerating the narrative plot.

[The MunchKING]

Belkar is shaping up to be quite reasonable these days.

If he was REALLY reasonable he would have asked if they had spare wood first THEN carved up the ship if they said no.

[GM_3826]

Belkar-still a ****. Somewhat better.

[Quild]

Oh, this is why Andi is hostile to Bandana then.

Wouldn't have guessed that Bandana's claim on the Mechane wasn't that strong.

[Ezekiel]

What does it mean when Holy Water burns your skin? (asking for a friend). :smallwink:

I'm assuming that being Holy, Holy Water would burn evil Belkar much like his clasp does when he activates it.

[LordRahl6]

What does it mean when Holy Water burns your skin? (asking for a friend). :smallwink:

Belkar is EEEVVVIIIILLLL!!!:smallwink:

[Valynie]

Belkar is shaping up to be quite reasonable these days.

My thought when I read the post !
One day he is going to try to resolve all conflicts with love and understanding ...

[dancrilis]

Belkar is EEEVVVIIIILLLL!!!:smallwink:

And apparently Undead or an Outsider ... the plot thickens.

[grandpheonix]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ...you made my tummy hurt laughing so hard!

[littlebum2002]

"Why, do you want to build a stepladder?"

Ooooh, burned.

[Starknight62040]

Awesome. It is good to catch back up with comedy gold Belkar.

[DaggerPen]

Oh my god Belkar, I love you. Cackling at the throwaway line about holy water, too.

(Don't get me wrong, he's still a horrible little miscreant. But he's golden here.)

[CoffeeIncluded]

Blasphemy, garlic is fantastic! Seriously loving the rapid fire banter though.

[Majiy]

Looking very much forward to the unavoidable confrontation between Andi and the chick with the bandana.

By the way, is Andi female? I would guess so, but not 100% sure about it.

[LunarDrop]

Yay, more Belkar.
Also, Bandanna is seriously jealous. Love the little rivalry and resistance there.

[Blue Lantern]

What does it mean when Holy Water burns your skin? (asking for a friend). :smallwink:

Fixed that for you.

[Psyren]

Looking very much forward to the unavoidable confrontation between Andi and the chick with the bandana.

I'm honestly with Belkar on this one, I couldn't care less. But 10gp says Roy's longstanding tradition of ignoring NPCs means he'll be blindsided by whatever turmoil ends up erupting from the crew.

[Toper]

Ha. I briefly thought the cook had accused Belkar of being a homophobe but then I figured it out. :smallredface:

[IDrankWHAT]

NO! YOU'RE A HOMOPHONE! My sides hurt!! :smallbiggrin: And now everybody at work thinks I'm crazy! Oh well!

[IDrankWHAT]

Ha. I briefly thought the cook had accused Belkar of being a homophobe but then I figured it out. :smallredface:

So did I! That's what made it even funnier!

[Sharoth]

Good one Giant! But now I am hungry.

[LordRahl6]

Ha. I briefly thought the cook had accused Belkar of being a homophobe but then I figured it out. :smallredface:

He Probably thought Belkar said Homophobe!:smallamused:

[dancrilis]

By the way, is Andi female?

... she has breasts (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0961.html).

I am going to assume female.

[Ron Miel]

Oops, turns out Belkar is a little insecure in his manhood after all.

[Hamste]

And apparently Undead or an Outsider ... the plot thickens.

Quick we need a theory on this relating to the Haley is a half celestial theory.

[Strigon]

Ha. I briefly thought the cook had accused Belkar of being a homophobe but then I figured it out. :smallredface:

https://media.giphy.com/media/7bYomfmamCEH6/giphy.gif

[Grand Arbiter]

Andi seems to think that Julio will come back... Anybody else think he might have one last appearance up his sleeve?

[dancrilis]

https://media.giphy.com/media/7bYomfmamCEH6/giphy.gif

homophone: each of two or more words having the same pronunciation but different meanings, origins, or spelling

Effectively Belkar assumed that a steak through the heart was what was needed to kill Durkon (hence the title 'He Assumed It Was a Cholesterol Thing'), the cook presumedly pointed out that he was wrong and that 'no steak is merely a homophone of stake', Belkar not knowing what homophone meant responded with 'no, you're a homophone'.

There I think I have sufficently killed that joke via explanation now.

[Strigon]

homophone: each of two or more words having the same pronunciation but different meanings, origins, or spelling

Effectively Belkar assumed that a steak through the heart was what was needed to kill Durkon (hense the title 'He Assumed It Was a Cholesterol Thing'), the cook presumedly pointed out that he was wrong and that 'no steak is merely a homophone of stake', Belkar not knowing what homophone meant responded with 'no, you're a homophone'.

There I think I have sufficently killed that joke via explanation now.

Thanks!
It's too early in the morning; I thought those were ham, for no appropriate reason I can come up with.

[LordRahl6]

Andi seems to think that Julio will come back... Anybody else think he might have one last appearance up his sleeve?

Possible, but the likelihood is slim since Elan already used him as a trump card in the previous arc as a good father figure against Tarquin, and Julio doesn't overdo the intervention thing ala Deus EX Machina.:smallwink:

[Ron Miel]

homophone: each of two or more words having the same pronunciation but different meanings, origins, or spelling

Effectively Belkar assumed that a steak through the heart was what was needed to kill Durkon (hense the title 'He Assumed It Was a Cholesterol Thing') .

The cook thought that, not Belkar. Cooks sometimes use cholesterol as a weapon. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0432.html)

[Tiiba]

https://media.giphy.com/media/7bYomfmamCEH6/giphy.gif

Look ma, I'm a behelith!

[Peelee]

Oops, turns out Belkar is a little insecure in his manhood after all.

I dunno, seems more like the standard "YOU'RE A [word]!" when someone says something you don't understand.

[Lheticus]

Note to self: "homophone" is one of the funniest possible versions of the "No, you!" joke. I don't often legit belly laugh.


Thanks!
It's too early in the morning; I thought those were ham, for no appropriate reason I can come up with.

To be fair, they DO sometimes call it "hamsteak."

[Sniper Jo]

Ha. I briefly thought the cook had accused Belkar of being a homophobe but then I figured it out. :smallredface:

In all likelihood, so did Belkar.

[Basement Cat]

https://media.giphy.com/media/7bYomfmamCEH6/giphy.gif


I didn't either.

I'm on the team wondering about holy water burning Death's Little Helper, too.

Maybe I didn't get enough sleep last night...drat!

[Castamir]

Meh, Belkar, I am disappoint. It's only Elan and Thog supposed to be that dumb!

[Quibblicious]

Happy to see the return to the Mechane and the return of Andromeda (same name and nickname as my golden doodle).

Huzzah and onward!

Q

[faustin]

I don´t quite remember if simply being evil aligned was enough to be harmed by holy water in D&D. :smallconfused:

[ackmondual]

Great, now I want a stake steak.

As far as great steaks go, Belkar is raising the stakes! :smallcool:

[Kantaki]

I'm pretty sure if you prepare them the right wrong way steaks can kill vampires anyone just as well as stakes.:smallbiggrin:

[Syldar]

I think the holy water thing is more of a harmless-but-still-painful burn. Think lemon juice in a paper cut, not dragon acid.

[factotum]

I don´t quite remember if simply being evil aligned was enough to be harmed by holy water in D&D. :smallconfused:

It is if you're an outsider or undead...neither of which Belkar is, so no, he wouldn't be hurt by the stuff. Chances are that's simply Belkar's mistake, though, he's not the brightest candle in the box.

[dancrilis]

I don´t quite remember if simply being evil aligned was enough to be harmed by holy water in D&D. :smallconfused:

No it is not. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#holyWater)

This could be a Giant house rule - or a hint that Belkar is more than he seems.

[Jasdoif]

What does it mean when Holy Water burns your skin?Allergies.

[AutomatedTeller]

I thought the tiny spatula and huge steaks were awesome, too. Funny and setting up plot points.

[GM_3826]

Belkar being an outsider is weird though because that means he's not capable of being neutral, which is (in my opinion) where he seems to be heading. He was, however, bit by a vampire... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0870.html) After the line "perhaps I SHOULD make more children..."

Cue quote from Caliborn about ****TY TWISTS here.

[Sir_Norbert]

By the way, is Andi female? I would guess so, but not 100% sure about it.

Yes. Her full name is Andromeda.

[dancrilis]

Belkar being an outsider is weird though because that means he's not capable of being neutral ...

Despite being the person to mention Outsiders for Belkar I regard that twist chances as being slim.

However there is nothing preventing an outsider changing alignment - its creature type might be subtype alignment Y, but the creature itself does not have to be.

Also there are outsiders in all alignment types (Rilmani I believe are TN - but it has been a while since I checked).

[kaoskonfety]

Nice lead up. Good closing gag,

11/10
Will continue to read fanatically.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think the holy water thing is more of a harmless-but-still-painful burn. Think lemon juice in a paper cut, not dragon acid.

I hate that. Rubbing alcohol in your scratches hurts like the blazes as well.

[CardboardPizzas]

This is why Belkar is my favourite character.

[Kish]

No, by D&D rules, holy water wouldn't hurt Belkar (as, indeed, Protection from Evil wouldn't).

I advise against caring; Rich sure doesn't.

[Gift Jeraff]

I bet Felix is actually the one who will inherit the Mechane.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm glad that we're getting more information on the rivalry between Sally Andi and Bandana, although I can't help but feel that some petty feelings are involved here. Also, Belkar is such a hilarious little psychopath.

[Clistenes]

That engineer chick has "traitor for petty reasons" written all over her. Rich has stressed her dissatisfaction about not owning the ship too much for it not being plot-relevant.

I bet she will spark another mutiny and leave Bandana and the Order of the Stick stranded at the dwarven lands (she will convince the others to leave while the Order are hunting the vampire).

I guess that's the problem with a (probably) chaotic crew: They only follow Julio Scoundrel because they are his fans and they want to follow him. The minute that admiration isn't glueing them together, a struggle for power starts.

[Keltest]

I'm honestly with Belkar on this one, I couldn't care less. But 10gp says Roy's longstanding tradition of ignoring NPCs means he'll be blindsided by whatever turmoil ends up erupting from the crew.

I agree with belkar as well. Also, I need a shower. But I cant see a mutiny plot doing anything particularly beneficial for the comic. Among other reasons, the conflict between Andi and Bandana is so trivially unimportant, especially since its apparently just Andi being jealous of Bandana, compared to the stakes (heh) the Order is already in.

[hroþila]

I agree with belkar as well. Also, I need a shower. But I cant see a mutiny plot doing anything particularly beneficial for the comic. Among other reasons, the conflict between Andi and Bandana is so trivially unimportant, especially since its apparently just Andi being jealous of Bandana, compared to the stakes (heh) the Order is already in.
I imagine it's simply meant to provide an in-universe reason for the Mechane to go out of the picture when necessary.

[DaggerPen]

Given the Order's long and storied history of transportation issues, combined with the focus on Andi's dissatisfaction with Bandana being in charge, I fully expect a mutiny plot to throw a wrench into the race for the final Gate.

[Keltest]

I imagine it's simply meant to provide an in-universe reason for the Mechane to go out of the picture when necessary.

Possibly, but I think "The crew only has so much good will to go around" was already a sufficient explanation. I find it much easier to swallow characters having things to do besides ferrying around the PCs than having one of them death grip the conflict ball.

[silvadel]

I wonder how Belkar will take it when he fails an evil test at some point in the future. IE when something that affects evil, fails to affect him.

[Burner28]

I wonder how Belkar will take it when he fails an evil test at some point in the future. IE when something that affects evil, fails to affect him.

I doubt that will happen.

[Onyavar]

By the way, is Andi female? I would guess so, but not 100% sure about it.

... she has breasts (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0961.html).

I am going to assume female.

No, please! Forget that she is shaped female! Andi already (almost) has a ship. She doesn't need any shipping! And don't dare to consider Belkar for that! (Just saying this preemptively before a thread is started, just like for poor Oona)

[Lkctgo]

With the fact that Belkar basically owes his life to durkon.. I think it's only right storywise if he kills Durkula and dies with him (probably through some sort of evil-burning type equipment or magic item). And with the increasing amount of emphasis on Belkar going "I need to kill Durkula to save Durkon", I hope that's where the story ultimately ends up.

[dancrilis]

No, please! Forget that she is shaped female! Andi already (almost) has a ship. She doesn't need any shipping! And don't dare to consider Belkar for that! (Just saying this preemptively before a thread is started, just like for poor Oona)

You do realise that prophecy can be self-fulfilling right?

Fortunately I think she might be somewhat immune - she has escaped it for nearly 100 pages (Oona didn't last 10).

She is one of my favourite minor NPCs (for now at least) so hopefully she stays immune (well looks like we have both damned her now).

[Draconi Redfir]

Iiiii don't quite get the last pannel... i mean, homophone means two words that have the same pronounciation but different meaning etc

But the way Belkar is saying it to the crewman i can't help but feel like he was called a "homophobe" and misunderstood it or something, which makes no sense given there is no context for that. *Shrugs*

[dancrilis]

Iiiii don't quite get the last pannel... i mean, homophone means two words that have the same pronounciation but different meaning etc

But the way Belkar is saying it to the crewman i can't help but feel like he was called a "homophobe" and misunderstood it or something, which makes no sense given there is no context for that. *Shrugs*


homophone: each of two or more words having the same pronunciation but different meanings, origins, or spelling

Effectively Belkar assumed that a steak through the heart was what was needed to kill Durkon (hence the title 'He Assumed It Was a Cholesterol Thing'), the cook presumedly pointed out that he was wrong and that 'no steak is merely a homophone of stake', Belkar not knowing what homophone meant responded with 'no, you're a homophone'.

There I think I have sufficently killed that joke via explanation now.
... Clearer?

[Peelee]

Iiiii don't quite get the last pannel... i mean, homophone means two words that have the same pronounciation but different meaning etc

But the way Belkar is saying it to the crewman i can't help but feel like he was called a "homophobe" and misunderstood it or something, which makes no sense given there is no context for that. *Shrugs*

Belkar wanted to make stakes. He made steaks instead. Cook probably said that was a homophone. Belkar responds, "no, you're a homophone!"

[ManuelSacha]

I'm gonna start using "you're a homophone" as an insult / accusation in random online conversations, just to mess with people. :smalltongue:
Let's see how many catch up. :smallbiggrin:

[dancrilis]

I'm gonna start using "you're a homophone" as an insult / accusation in random online conversations, just to mess with people. :smalltongue:
Let's see how many catch up. :smallbiggrin:

It isn't really an insult, and as a accusation it lacks any bite - as if they are are a homophone that will likely be the intention of their internet handle where if they are not that it merely makes it look like you don't know what words mean.

[Hawkstar]

No, please! Forget that she is shaped female! Andi already (almost) has a ship. She doesn't need any shipping! And don't dare to consider Belkar for that! (Just saying this preemptively before a thread is started, just like for poor Oona)
Andromeda/Mechane confirmed OTP. "Planks for the good time last night."

[Anonymouswizard]

Andromeda/Mechane confirmed OTP. "Planks for the good time last night."

Throwing my support on this one. Time to start shipping Andi with the ship.

Also, I don't think there'll be a munity storyline, I think after dropping the order off the Mechane will go to find Julio (and rescue him from some dramatic situation just in the nick of time, hoping for a cutaway panel).

[Sith_Happens]

In before people assuming that "holy water burns" necessarily means that it damages him. Never mind, too late.:smalltongue:

[blunk]

Time to start shipping Andi with the ship."Wow, Bender - are you and the ship an item? I mean, I know you're both items, but how can you date a ship, anyway?"

[Doug Lampert]

Possibly, but I think "The crew only has so much good will to go around" was already a sufficient explanation. I find it much easier to swallow characters having things to do besides ferrying around the PCs than having one of them death grip the conflict ball.

But "the crew" isn't a single entity that speaks with a single mouth. For "the crew" to decide to do something that the captain doesn't want them to do, requires that someone take the lead in telling the captain, "No, we're not going to spend the rest of our lives playing 'how close to the North Pole can this airship go'".

Rich is setting up to have a crewmember available to say "No, we're not doing that" when the time comes. Imagine that the famous "Mechane Crewman with eyepatch and beard (panel 6) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html)" is the one to do so, would that feel reasonable?

Nope, this is necessary setup for "the crew" to run out of goodwill. Because the crew only does anything when someone in the crew decides the crew should do that thing and the others agree. Andi is (possibly) being set up as the member of the crew who triggers that action.

[Keltest]

But "the crew" isn't a single entity that speaks with a single mouth. For "the crew" to decide to do something that the captain doesn't want them to do, requires that someone take the lead in telling the captain, "No, we're not going to spend the rest of our lives playing 'how close to the North Pole can this airship go'".

Rich is setting up to have a crewmember available to say "No, we're not doing that" when the time comes. Imagine that the famous "Mechane Crewman with eyepatch and beard (panel 6) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html)" is the one to do so, would that feel reasonable?

Nope, this is necessary setup for "the crew" to run out of goodwill. Because the crew only does anything when someone in the crew decides the crew should do that thing and the others agree. Andi is (possibly) being set up as the member of the crew who triggers that action.

Ok, except Andi's conflict is clearly with Bandana, not the Order, and is totally personal in nature. None of the rest of the crew have given any indication they would prefer Andi in charge, and in fact when conflict did arise, Andi was the only member of the crew not absolutely satisfied with the resolution.

[Takver]

Oh, this is why Andi is hostile to Bandana then.

Wouldn't have guessed that Bandana's claim on the Mechane wasn't that strong.

I mean...according to Andi, it isn't, but she's pretty biased. Seems to think she's near the front of the line to inherit the Mechane just because she's a long-serving engineer, which doesn't make sense to me. As an engineer, she might know everything there is to know about the ship, but not necessarily commanding the crew or making the decisions. I think she could be deluding herself about what it means that Bandana is getting command experience and she isn't.

[Cavenskull]

What does it mean when Holy Water burns your skin? (asking for a friend). :smallwink:

It means you need to be more careful handling boiling water.

[MaverickMopete]

This isn't the first time Belkar has failed with words.

Remember There's More Than One Way to Fail a Listen Check? (Comic #676)

Where he confused a "sextant" with a "sex taint" and tried to find Roy a hooker, or where he confused a cartographer with a "cart o' gophers"?

[Gift Jeraff]

I still think Andi is an IFCC agent.

[Kish]

Clearly Andi would like to lead a mutiny and throw Bandana and her new friends off the ship. But I'm not seeing how she'd do that. The last time the subject came up, she lost--decisively--and lost because, of Andi and Bandana, one was indeed out of touch with the wishes of most of the crew, and it wasn't Bandana. The Order can easily pay the crew more, if they start feeling ill-used again. Andi would need to convince them to up their demands to "far more than is reasonable or than they would have gotten in the same time frame if Julio was still there" before the Order wouldn't agree, and last I saw, she was trying ineffectively to convince them to return to active piracy as a matter of principle.

Oh, and for the benefit of anyone who reads this not getting the punchline: Belkar went to make steaks, and the ship's cook let him start doing so, or possibly discovered him in the kitchen having already started to cook them. Then, while cooking, Belkar clarified that he meant them to destroy the vampire(s), and the cook said, "No, no, that's a homophone." Belkar, thinking the cook was unjustly accusing him of a prejudice against LGBT people which he doesn't have, replied, "No, you're a homophone!" And apparently the cook explained to Belkar that the kind of stake that could destroy vampires was a piece of sharpened wood off-panel. The fate of the steaks Belkar got partway into cooking is unknown; I would guess that if Belkar didn't finish them the cook probably did, since it wouldn't make much sense to let them go to waste.

[Carl]

homophone: each of two or more words having the same pronunciation but different meanings, origins, or spelling

Effectively Belkar assumed that a steak through the heart was what was needed to kill Durkon (hence the title 'He Assumed It Was a Cholesterol Thing'), the cook presumably pointed out that he was wrong and that 'no steak is merely a homophone of stake', Belkar not knowing what homophone meant responded with 'no, you're a homophone'.

There I think I have sufficiently killed that joke via explanation now.

Thank you, the joke totally went over my head...

[JoeyTheNeko]

still don't get the homophone joke....

[semi]

still don't get the homophone joke....


Here's what I think happened "off panel"

Belkar says to the Cook: "I need stakes!"

Cook: "Here you go"

Belkar: "Not Steaks, you moron. Stakes!"

Cook: "You said stake. I'm a cook. So I thought Steak. It's a homophone"

Which leads Belkar to fire off the "no, YOU'RE a homophone" line.

[Kish]

Here's what I think happened "off panel"

Belkar says to the Cook: "I need stakes!"

Cook: "Here you go"

Belkar: "Not Steaks, you moron. Stakes!"

Cook: "You said stake. I'm a cook. So I thought Steak. It's a homophone"

Which leads Belkar to fire off the "no, YOU'RE a homophone" line.
Doesn't fit the title or the situation where Belkar was apparently grilling steaks when the cook told him it's a homophone.

[JoeyTheNeko]

Here's what I think happened "off panel"

Belkar says to the Cook: "I need stakes!"

Cook: "Here you go"

Belkar: "Not Steaks, you moron. Stakes!"

Cook: "You said stake. I'm a cook. So I thought Steak. It's a homophone"

Which leads Belkar to fire off the "no, YOU'RE a homophone" line.

ah, thanks.

[GM_3826]

Doesn't fit the title or the situation where Belkar was apparently grilling steaks when the cook told him it's a homophone.

It does fit the title and the situation; he assumed that they were weak to stakes because they did not like cholesterol, and thus he made juicy steak that they could not resist eating. That in combination with what we have already stated several times previously explains absolutely everything.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Hey, I'm eating a stake right now!

[Takver]

The fate of the steaks Belkar got partway into cooking is unknown; I would guess that if Belkar didn't finish them the cook probably did, since it wouldn't make much sense to let them go to waste.

Okay, I laughed at this. On this forum, there could definitely be a serious argument about the fate of the three one-panel steaks. We must understand every detail!

[Alex Warlorn]

Satisfying seeing Belkar's normal attitude getting turned on him. And a reminder that while adventurers are nominally and narratively the stars of the story, and are THE major source of income for the towns they pass through... Having him called a "nobody little twerp" is so satisfying, much more than having him called a psycho considering he takes a point of PRIDE in that. But a "nobody little twerp?" That is someone actually managing to sting him.

And the engineer's quips may be SHORT on originality, but it's nice to see someone tell Belkar what for.

[Draz74]

Eh, this one didn't do it for me. The punch line makes no sense when you think about it too hard (particularly, why is Belkar even wearing the chef hat if he thought they were talking about stakes rather than steaks?)

I don't like Andi much, and Belkar's abrupt transition from "I don't care about you" to "OK, I'll find a way to compromise with you" wasn't believable.

I do like Giant's policy that "Just because it doesn't cause hit point damage doesn't mean it doesn't hurt." I.e. the fact that Protection from Evil and Holy Water hurt evil characters, just for flavor's sake, even though they don't damage Evil humanoids.

[dancrilis]

The punch line makes no sense when you think about it too hard (particularly, why is Belkar even wearing the chef hat if he thought they were talking about stakes rather than steaks?)
Again:

homophone: each of two or more words having the same pronunciation but different meanings, origins, or spelling

Effectively Belkar assumed that a steak through the heart was what was needed to kill Durkon (hence the title 'He Assumed It Was a Cholesterol Thing'), the cook presumedly pointed out that he was wrong and that 'no steak is merely a homophone of stake', Belkar not knowing what homophone meant responded with 'no, you're a homophone'.

There I think I have sufficently killed that joke via explanation now.

Belkar thought steaks were useful against vampires, it was pointed out to him he was wrong and he didn't understand the word used.



I don't like Andi much, and Belkar's abrupt transition from "I don't care about you" to "OK, I'll find a way to compromise with you" wasn't believable.

I like her - one of my favourite minor NPCs but regardless of that Belkar still doesn't care about her and he didn't compromise, he got offered what he wanted and he accepted it, that is not compromise.

[Jasdoif]

I don't like Andi much, and Belkar's abrupt transition from "I don't care about you" to "OK, I'll find a way to compromise with you" wasn't believable.Belkar didn't compromise, though. Andi offered to give him exactly what he wanted, and he agreed to take it from her.

[Ruck]

I don't like Andi much, and Belkar's abrupt transition from "I don't care about you" to "OK, I'll find a way to compromise with you" wasn't believable.
Or, if you want to be accurate about it, from "I don't care about your life story" to "You have a way to get me what I want? OK."

[Kish]

Hey, I'm eating a stake right now!
...what are you, an anthropomorphic termite?

[Elkins]

Okay, I laughed at this. On this forum, there could definitely be a serious argument about the fate of the three one-panel steaks. We must understand every detail!

I know, right? We're only on page 2, and already this thread has everything. Painst(e)aking explanations of basic puns! Suggested crack ships! "OMG holy water hurts Belkar? Maybe he's an OUTSIDER!" I'm in heaven!


It's too early in the morning; I thought those were ham, for no appropriate reason I can come up with.
In cartoon language, ham usually takes the form of hamhocks with the bone still in, the kind that look like this:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/100x75q90/922/Z5et2Z.png
Don't ask me why.

(No, really. Especially don't ask me why. I spent years not realizing that those asymmetrical and weirdly uneven yellow rectangle blobbies that often serve to represent folders in GUIs were actually supposed to look like...manilla folders. Oh! That's why they're all uneven like that! 'Twas a eureka moment, to be sure.)

[Tobimaro]

Hey, I'm eating a stake right now!

Be careful of the bones (splinters). :smallbiggrin:

Great comic, Giant.

[factotum]

Clearly Andi would like to lead a mutiny and throw Bandana and her new friends off the ship.

The Order aren't Bandanna's new friends, they're Julio's friends, and thus Andi has absolutely no reason to throw them off the ship--not if she expects Julio to return at some point, at any rate, which the current strip suggests that she does.

[Jelly d6]

Allergies.

Yup.
Actually to make Holy Water you need a hefty amount of powdered silver (as "material component"). The metal is rarely allergic for human skin but who knows about halflings?

(Wild theories about Belkar being a lycanthrope incoming) :)

[mouser9169]

I agree with belkar as well. Also, I need a shower. But I cant see a mutiny plot doing anything particularly beneficial for the comic. Among other reasons, the conflict between Andi and Bandana is so trivially unimportant, especially since its apparently just Andi being jealous of Bandana, compared to the stakes (heh) the Order is already in.

The conflict may seem trivial to you, but I'm sure it's much more important to Andi. In fact, I'm sure it's much more important to Andi than some silly quest about adventurers rushing off to save the world (which probably happens all the time, or at least to hear Julio tell it).

Edit: Seems ferrying adventurers has happened at least a few times already (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0966.html).

[KorvinStarmast]

I mean...according to Andi, it isn't, but she's pretty biased. Seems to think she's near the front of the line to inherit the Mechane just because she's a long-serving engineer, which doesn't make sense to me. As an engineer, she might know everything there is to know about the ship, but not necessarily commanding the crew or making the decisions. I think she could be deluding herself about what it means that Bandana is getting command experience and she isn't. About than half of the Commanding Officers on the ships I served on in the Navy had served as the Chief Engineer. The other two major departments -- weapons and operations -- accounted for the other half. It may have changed a bit, in terms of balance, since then in the Navy, but being technically competent is a major must for the captain of a ship.

Enjoyed the Belkar as comic relief strip. I agree with the idea that Mechane may not stick around once the delivery to dwarven lands happens.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Syncrogti]

Giant is such a master in decelerating the narrative plot.

This. Now it will take a year to get back to the MitD..... buuuuuuuuuut its funny.

[ti'esar]

"Count Chock-Full-O-Nuts and his Creepy Crew" would make an excellent band name. Though admittedly the bar of admission there is pretty low.

I'm curious whether Andi's conviction that Julio is just temporarily retiring is actually accurate, or merely self-delusion.

[Clistenes]

I mean...according to Andi, it isn't, but she's pretty biased. Seems to think she's near the front of the line to inherit the Mechane just because she's a long-serving engineer, which doesn't make sense to me. As an engineer, she might know everything there is to know about the ship, but not necessarily commanding the crew or making the decisions. I think she could be deluding herself about what it means that Bandana is getting command experience and she isn't.

Not to mention the ship most probably is Julio's personal property, and he can give, sell or lend it to whoever he wishes. He probably sees Bandana as a daughter figure of sorts, since she has been raised in the ship and he has watched her grow... it makes sense that whe would pass the ship to her when the time comes.

[Takver]

About than half of the Commanding Officers on the ships I served on in the Navy had served as the Chief Engineer. The other two major departments -- weapons and operations -- accounted for the other half. It may have changed a bit, in terms of balance, since then in the Navy, but being technically competent is a major must for the captain of a ship.

I defer to your experience, then, and fair point.

Still, we've never had any indication from any character other than Andi that Andi was in the running to take command of the ship. Julio's choice this time was Bandana, and Andi's wording suggests that she wasn't actually privy to his reasons, whatever she wishes that they were.

[Jasdoif]

I'm curious whether Andi's conviction that Julio is just temporarily retiring is actually accurate, or merely self-delusion.I wonder if Andi knows that Julio gave his Chaos Sabre to Elan. That'd be the strongest (though not definite, I suppose) indication that it's a retirement, rather than a vacation like Julio's message to Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0943.html) says.

And I keep seeing the "banana edition" of that sixth panel....

[DaggerPen]

"It belongs to, what's her name? The chick with the bandana"

Belkar is rivaling Xykon for "terrible with names" here - at least Xykon can remember "Redcloak" :smalltongue:

(And yes, I know it's because he doesn't care about or pay attention to the crew. I just found it funny.)

[TuringTest]

"too much garlic messes with my sophisticated halfling palate" :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Am I the only one who finds that line hilarious? As a reason to avoid using a specialiced weapon, it's priceless.

Today's strip is an instant classic, to be quoted any time someone references the three most usual methods to keep a vampire at bay.

[Jasdoif]

"It belongs to, what's her name? The chick with the bandana"

Belkar is rivaling Xykon for "terrible with names" here - at least Xykon can remember "Redcloak" :smalltongue:Overlooking that Belkar's had the opporunity to learn Bandana's name moniker, the line's up there with


:roy: Sure, some goblin in a red cloak. I didn't catch his name, though. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0278.html)


:smalltongue:

[8BitNinja]

I just got here and all the comments I read were about the homophone joke. I thought it was a funny joke, I guess I just have a different sense of humor.


Yup.
Actually to make Holy Water you need a hefty amount of powdered silver (as "material component"). The metal is rarely allergic for human skin but who knows about halflings?

(Wild theories about Belkar being a lycanthrope incoming) :)

After doing research, I have a wild hypothesis that Belkar is not a werewolf, but a demon

[Kish]

I think you mean "devil."

(Unless this is an other-edition thing again. Demons, as Elan commented when trying to stab Sabine, are vulnerable to cold iron, devils to silver.)

[DaggerPen]

I think you mean "devil."

(Unless this is an other-edition thing again. Demons, as Elan commented when trying to stab Sabine, are vulnerable to cold iron, devils to silver.)

That's way too lawful for Belkar :smalltongue:

[The MunchKING]

I think you mean "devil."

(Unless this is an other-edition thing again. Demons, as Elan commented when trying to stab Sabine, are vulnerable to cold iron, devils to silver.)

I thought Holy Water hurt evil outsiders no matter what the type.

Anyway he's clearly Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0538.html).

[MaverickMopete]

Isn't it obvious? Belkar's Alignment is Belkar Evil. MAYBE Belkar Neutral now.

He doesn't care about Law. He doesn't care about Chaos. He doesn't even care about anything in between. All he cares about is himself.

Edit: And Mr. Scruffy. And Bloodfeast the Extreminator.

[deimos3428]

It might've made it one step too confusing, but I kinda wish Belkar had said "No, *your* a homophone."

[Iximaz]

Nice to have a bit of a breather episode before we kick back into high gear. Good on Belkar for starting to think ahead; I think that's a first for him, actually...

Does this mean he upped his Wisdom score? :smallbiggrin:

[DaggerPen]

Nice to have a bit of a breather episode before we kick back into high gear. Good on Belkar for starting to think ahead; I think that's a first for him, actually...

Does this mean he upped his Wisdom score? :smallbiggrin:

Durkula seems to bring out forward thinking with him, actually (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0969.html).

[The MunchKING]

He actually thinks ahead a lot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0286.html) when he actually knows he has an enemy he's going to have to deal with ahead of time. A lot of the time the enemy is just dumped on him, so he doesn't have time to prep, and his INT/Wis isn't good for much of an immediate course of action except "stab it until it quits getting in my way".

[F.Harr]

See, if you ask reasonably, you can get what you want. Sometimes. It's worth a try.

I do agree with him, stakes are a good thing right now.

And steaks often are.

[skim172]

Wooden stake. Wood in steak.

Wooden stake (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/01/22/episode-375-thinking-outside-the-box/) ... Wood IN steak (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2004/01/24/episode-376-four-hundred-pounds-of-flavor/). :smalleek:

[batiushkov]

Is this a Calvin and Hobbes reference?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6e/32/91/6e3291c63c0c1702caf721fd963ef9c2.jpg

[Rogar Demonblud]

About than half of the Commanding Officers on the ships I served on in the Navy had served as the Chief Engineer. The other two major departments -- weapons and operations -- accounted for the other half. It may have changed a bit, in terms of balance, since then in the Navy, but being technically competent is a major must for the captain of a ship.

In many fictional works, the Chief Engineer is just behind the XO in seniority, often with Weapons the next step down. As the most familiar example to geeks, TOS Enterprise goes Kirk, Spock, Scotty.

So Andi probably has some basis for her claim on seniority grounds, but she seems to be using "Keeping the bucket of splinters from falling apart".

[Reboot]

With the fact that Belkar basically owes his life to durkon.. I think it's only right storywise if he kills Durkula and dies with him (probably through some sort of evil-burning type equipment or magic item). And with the increasing amount of emphasis on Belkar going "I need to kill Durkula to save Durkon", I hope that's where the story ultimately ends up.

I'm just wondering how different Greg The Belkar is going to be from Belkar The Belkar. Greg The Durkon at least has opposite alignment from Durkon The Durkon going for that.

[Necris Omega]

Tee hee.

Belkar takes 1d4 Nocebic Damage from contact with Holy Water.

[Lombard]

I had this thought that he actually died when he fell off the mountain and is a Revenant now... :mitd:

That's crazy talk.. right??

[KorvinStarmast]

In many fictional works, the Chief Engineer is just behind the XO in seniority, often with Weapons the next step down. As the most familiar example to geeks, TOS Enterprise goes Kirk, Spock, Scotty.

So Andi probably has some basis for her claim on seniority grounds, but she seems to be using "Keeping the bucket of splinters from falling apart".
Of course, the flip side of my point was "yeah, but half of the weren't chief engineers!" (Which would be the same facts looked at through a different lens! :smallbiggrin:)

Is the glass of water half full, half empty, or just missing out of the necessary amount of beer?

And since we are dealing with a ship and star trek

Kobyashi Maru!

[goodpeople25]

For this conversation about engineers and XOs and star trek.

This isn't a military ship though nor do i think it really has the same size crew. So not sure if these examples are really equivalent. I'm sure those examples had plenty of applicable leadership experience. Andi? Maybe but maybe not. With a small ship like this I think head engineer could just as easily mean most experienced engineer than head/manager(ect) of the engineers (and from the comic I'm leaning a bit closer to the former) so not sure if she would really be in the running on this ship.

Now my obligatory joke about knots and Seamen (*snicker:smalltongue:) after talking about the navy to maintain my duty as a former Air Cadet. :smallbiggrin:

[skim172]

I had this thought that he actually died when he fell off the mountain and is a Revenant now... :mitd:

Ridiculous. Belkar looks nothing like Leonardo DiCaprio.

[8BitNinja]

I think you mean "devil."

(Unless this is an other-edition thing again. Demons, as Elan commented when trying to stab Sabine, are vulnerable to cold iron, devils to silver.)

Holy water harms both

[Basileus]

I'm dying at that last panel :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Centaur]

So Belkar is going to become one of Mechane’s stakeholders!

May even get to meet the board of directors.

[davidbofinger]

About than half of the Commanding Officers on the ships I served on in the Navy had served as the Chief Engineer. The other two major departments -- weapons and operations -- accounted for the other half. It may have changed a bit, in terms of balance, since then in the Navy, but being technically competent is a major must for the captain of a ship.

I'm guessing that was the United States Navy, certainly the statements you make apply better there than many places. In an RN-influenced navy, for example, technical expertise is typically held at a much lower level and candidates for CO are expected to focus on other things like tactics and managing people. There's a lot of different ways to run a ship, even without asking what difference a fantasy setting might make.

In practice if Julio got killed heroically tomorrow I suspect several pirates would contemplate advancing their case and the crew would vote. Formal seniority probably wouldn't apply.

[Neoriceisgood]

Kinda looks like Belkar ain't that shabby a cook.

[Werbaer]

Kinda looks like Belkar ain't that shabby a cook.
Cooking is one of Belkars two skillsets.

[Yendor]

I'm guessing that was the United States Navy, certainly the statements you make apply better there than many places. In an RN-influenced navy, for example, technical expertise is typically held at a much lower level and candidates for CO are expected to focus on other things like tactics and managing people. There's a lot of different ways to run a ship, even without asking what difference a fantasy setting might make.

In practice if Julio got killed heroically tomorrow I suspect several pirates would contemplate advancing their case and the crew would vote. Formal seniority probably wouldn't apply.

I'd suggest too that a modern military with hundreds of vessels and tens of thousands of members is a very different situation to a single independent ship with a few dozen crew. If you promote someone to command, you have to find someone to do their old job.

[Onyavar]

I'd suggest too that a modern military with hundreds of vessels and tens of thousands of members is a very different situation to a single independent ship with a few dozen crew. If you promote someone to command, you have to find someone to do their old job.

Which Bandana is still doing: Steering the ship, right? Sure, she no longer exclusively steers the ship, but has a bunch of added duties. Sounds like captain to me.

Even in a less modern military, the "commander of a technical unit" (captain) should be able to know his "technical unit" (ship) from the in and out. An officer who hasn't served lots of time in a tank and who doesn't know even the basics of tank logistics, is unfit to command a tank brigade. The captain of a sailing ship who doesn't know how to navigate his vessel against the wind can't plan his course, his maneuvres and is basically useless.

So: Bandana knows her ship sufficiently (but isn't an engine whiz), and Andi does too (but isn't really good in people skills). Julio, being a CHAR-20 character, of course trusted Bandana with his job. If Julio were a tinkering gnome, his reasoning might have been different. Anyway, Bandana isn't good enough a leader for her crew, so her command is going to blow up in her face.

[Peelee]

In cartoon language, ham usually takes the form of hamhocks with the bone still in, the kind that look like this:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/100x75q90/922/Z5et2Z.png
Don't ask me why.

(No, really. Especially don't ask me why. I spent years not realizing that those asymmetrical and weirdly uneven yellow rectangle blobbies that often serve to represent folders in GUIs were actually supposed to look like...manilla folders. Oh! That's why they're all uneven like that! 'Twas a eureka moment, to be sure.)
Basic rule of cartooning. Keep things recognizable and simple. Usually 1-3 details. Pink meat, crosscut crust, bone. Recognizable ham for everyone. No mistaking it for anything else. Similarly, for a cook, you have a white chef's hat, and call it a day (white suit or cooking utensil optional), or a pointy blue cop hat, shield badge, and blue suit for a cop. Minimize details, while making it instantly recognizable.

I used to have a book on cartooning. If I'd had any artistic ability, i might have been able to do something mediocre. As is i had a few good XKCD-style comics, and stopped. Still cool knowing about the techniques though.

Is this a Calvin and Hobbes reference?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6e/32/91/6e3291c63c0c1702caf721fd963ef9c2.jpg
No.

In many fictional works, the Chief Engineer is just behind the XO in seniority, often with Weapons the next step down. As the most familiar example to geeks, TOS Enterprise goes Kirk, Spock, Scotty.
Similarly, TNG Enterprise went Picard, Riker, Data, LaForge (after he was promoted to Chief of Engineering, of course).

I'm just wondering how different Greg The Belkar is going to be from Belkar The Belkar. Greg The Durkon at least has opposite alignment from Durkon The Durkon going for that.
......as different as Xykon, Redcloak, Tarquin, Malack, the vampire, and any other evil character is from Belkar? Imean, really now. Unless you want to claim that all evil characters are the same, I don't see any basis for your conclusion. It's not like the vampire is just Durkon, but evil. He's a whole new person. Different motivations, different personality, different everything. Not just different alignment. Why would you expect this to not be the case for Belkar?


Just breaking up this last bit from the rest
Also, i posit that we have a defined character trait for Belkar: poor lexicon. We've had sex tent, cart o' gophers, and now mistaking steak for stake and (most likely) homophone for homophobe.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm guessing that was the United States Navy, certainly the statements you make apply better there than many places. In an RN-influenced navy, for example, technical expertise is typically held at a much lower level and candidates for CO are expected to focus on other things like tactics and managing people.
In the USN, all three department heads have to stand as TAO (run the watch in CIC) and have to lead and manage people: the Chief Engineer usually has the most people. All three have to know how to fight the ship or they'll not screen for XO and advance in the command track. Each organization has its own approach -- the USN in Up or Out, and the RN can see serving LCDR's with 30 years in service.

Back on topic ... the question is, does the role Andi is playing fit "department head" or "best mechanic/boiler tech?" If the latter then my analogy does not fit at all. As pirates, one leaves ... in a shroud or when marooned! :smalleek:


There's a lot of different ways to run a ship, even without asking what difference a fantasy setting might make.

Yes indeed, and pirates would seem to respond best to charismatic types.

[evilbob]

This is absolutely the funniest comic in a long time.

[Quibblicious]

After doing research, I have a wild hypothesis that Belkar is not a werewolf, but a demon

He's too clean shaven to be a werewolf.

Maybe a were-hairless-chihuahua?

Q

[Quibblicious]

Ridiculous. Belkar looks nothing like Leonardo DiCaprio.

I dunno... from what I've read they're about the same height...

Or was that Tom Cruise?

Q

[Kish]

In light of the fact that the captain of the Mechane is extremely chaotic, I think Andi's fundamental error was in thinking that being hardworking, obedient, and concerned about the proper role of pirates (minor shades of Tarquin...) would get her anything--or even be viewed as assets rather than deficits if Julio considered stepping down.

[Keltest]

In light of the fact that the captain of the Mechane is extremely chaotic, I think Andi's fundamental error was in thinking that being hardworking, obedient, and concerned about the proper role of pirates (minor shades of Tarquin...) would get her anything--or even be viewed as assets rather than deficits if Julio considered stepping down.

Andi seems to be taking issue with bandana's competence, though she also seems to be judging Bandana on her age rather than her performance. Bandana was Scoundrel's first mate, was she not?

[dancrilis]

Andi seems to be taking issue with bandana's competence, though she also seems to be judging Bandana on her age rather than her performance.

This may be true but Bandana's performance leaves a lot to be desired.

[Keltest]

This may be true but Bandana's performance leaves a lot to be desired.

We've seen very little of Bandana's performance compared to scoundrel's, other than she got her crew paid a lot for minimal work with little to no negotiating.

[dancrilis]

We've seen very little of Bandana's performance compared to scoundrel's, other than she got her crew paid a lot for minimal work with little to no negotiating.

We saw her go swanning around town while Andi was left to supervise a swarm of grubby gnomes on the ship - after Andi may have pulled an all nighter to prevent the crew dieing in a watery grave and fixing repairs on the ship, and followed likely by another all-nighter to fix the engine with the gnomes, with very little credit.

Julio may have been better or worse.

[Corneel]

We saw her go swanning around town while Andi was left to supervise a swarm of grubby gnomes on the ship - after Andi may have pulled an all nighter to prevent the crew dieing in a watery grave and fixing repairs on the ship, and followed likely by another all-nighter to fix the engine with the gnomes, with very little credit.

Julio may have been better or worse.
Why should she get special credit for doing what is, basically, her job?

[dancrilis]

Why should she get special credit for doing what is, basically, her job?

Overseeing contractors which may act as saboteurs is a management function - i.e something the captain should have been doing.

[Keltest]

Overseeing contractors which may act as saboteurs is a management function - i.e something the captain should have been doing.

A: without a working knowledge of the engineering of the ship, how is anybody going to successfully oversee that?

B: The ship is already basically non-functional at that point. Whats there to sabotage? Do you think the gnomes are going to deliberately repair it so that it will get out to sea then just blow up or something? The only danger from the gnomes is incompetence, in which case you still want the engineer to be the one there.

[2xMachina]

What does it mean when Holy Water burns your skin? (asking for a friend). :smallwink:

Allergies.

Allergies to wet silver bricks

[dancrilis]

A: without a working knowledge of the engineering of the ship, how is anybody going to successfully oversee that?

B: The ship is already basically non-functional at that point. Whats there to sabotage? Do you think the gnomes are going to deliberately repair it so that it will get out to sea then just blow up or something? The only danger from the gnomes is incompetence, in which case you still want the engineer to be the one there.

They have adventurers onboard, adventurers have enemies. Had Bozzok hired/threatened some gnome to sabotage the ship to consign it to a crash it could have been.
Also social engineers are a thing - had a rival gnomish company wanted to give the one choosen bad press having paying someone to undertake sabotage might work well to achieve that.

A spanner left in an engine is something that can be spotted easily enough, a gnome wandering in an undamaged place is easy enough etc.

Having your chief engineer run off her feet to do a potentially unneeded rush job for the benefit of adventurers who were not paying (the crew at that time) and not sticking around to at least help supervise the unknown contractors (and the rest of the ships staff for that matter) does not truely speak well of the captain.

[Corneel]

Overseeing contractors which may act as saboteurs is a management function - i.e something the captain should have been doing.

Head Engineer is a management position. With on top of that the exact technical qualifications so useful for overseeing contractors doing technical work. Just as you would want your quartermaster to oversee purchasing of supplies. The captain can be there for the initial briefing and debriefing after the works. In the mean time schmoozing with the people that are paying for the repairs could be considered good general management. Especially since that might have inclined them to pay more for services rendered. Also, while in port, Bandana's specific technical skills (navigation) are not needed on board.

[Kantaki]

......as different as Xykon, Redcloak, Tarquin, Malack, the vampire, and any other evil character is from Belkar? Imean, really now. Unless you want to claim that all evil characters are the same, I don't see any basis for your conclusion. It's not like the vampire is just Durkon, but evil. He's a whole new person. Different motivations, different personality, different everything. Not just different alignment. Why would you expect this to not be the case for Belkar?

Well, according to SoD’s preface „every being of the same alignment is indistinguishable from one another”.:smalltongue:
On the other hand that was written by Miko so it should be taken with a grain of salt ignored completely.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Cooking is one of Belkars two skillsets.

Three skillsets. His skillsets are Murder, Cooking and Jump Good.

[Liquor Box]

Three skillsets. His skillsets are Murder, Cooking and Jump Good.

What about all his burns (or Roy and V in particular), and his ability to pull the ladies.

Truly the sexy shoeless god of war is a multi-talented individual.

[Keltest]

They have adventurers onboard, adventurers have enemies. Had Bozzok hired/threatened some gnome to sabotage the ship to consign it to a crash it could have been.
Also social engineers are a thing - had a rival gnomish company wanted to give the one choosen bad press having paying someone to undertake sabotage might work well to achieve that.

A spanner left in an engine is something that can be spotted easily enough, a gnome wandering in an undamaged place is easy enough etc.

Having your chief engineer run off her feet to do a potentially unneeded rush job for the benefit of adventurers who were not paying (the crew at that time) and not sticking around to at least help supervise the unknown contractors (and the rest of the ships staff for that matter) does not truely speak well of the captain.

Contrary to popular humor, supervision does involve more than just watching people do their jobs. Bandana lacks the skills to know whether or not the gnomes are doing their jobs right or in the most effective way, not to mention Andi would probably just want to redo half of it to her preference anyway.

A manager who insists on supervising a position that she has no knowledge of is a very bad manager.

[Ruck]

Three skillsets. His skillsets are Murder, Cooking and Jump Good.

Isn't the last one because of his Ring of Jumping +20? I assumed he got that back from Roy at some point.

[blunk]

Isn't the last one because of his Ring of Jumping +20? I assumed he got that back from Roy at some point.He Jump Goods in #19. (Ring of Jumping in #130)

[dancrilis]

Contrary to popular humor, supervision does involve more than just watching people do their jobs.

A manager who insists on supervising a position that she has no knowledge of is a very bad manager.
Have you ever been a manager?
Without wanting to get into a 'there are two types' bit for the purpose of this we shall say there are:
1. A manager who knows how to do the job they are managing.
2. A manager who does not know how to do the job they are managing.

Contrary to popular belief the second type (which I have not been - but who I have worked for) are actually often very good - that is why they are management because they know how to manage workloads, resources and disputes (as should a manager who does not how to do the job - albeith they sometimes let there bais on how it should be done interfere with more modern techniques).

But fine let us assume that Bandana grew up on a airship but doesn't know anything about airships: whats an engine, a wheel, a sail someone asks ... no clue says she (I think that is selling her short but fine happy to accept that for this).

She should still be present to supervise unknown agents wandering around her ship, she should still be listening to her crew and the contractors to resolve disputes and make - you know - management decisions.

Instead she delegated that to a likely sleep deprived crew member, who than went on to work until the following morning.
If you have never done a 24 hour shift than please accept that it is unpleasant (this is my experience maybe other people love em - so subjective opinion and all).
It is presumedly more unpleasant when you have to deal with unknown contractors that are actively engaged in critiquing your work, further when you need to be focused to understand everything they are doing in case you need to do another patch job of it, again further when you need to consider that any one of them out of your sight might be damaging the thing you need to work properly to avoid death for collusion with the ground - and might be damaging it due to malice or incompetance.

Had Bandana been present she might have been utterly useless at everything repair related - but she might have been able to mediate contractor/employee differences and might have been able to keep an eye out for suspicious behaviour - 'hey Andi, why do you think that gnome is cutting half way through the rope the sail is attached to?" she might ask.

As it happens the Gnomes seemed to fix it without issue - but that doesn't mean all the work of dealing with them was simply and it does not mean that Bandana was retroactively justified in swanning around town and hoping for the best while someone else did their own job and hers.

[Keltest]

Have you ever been a manager?
Without wanting to get into a 'there are two types' bit for the purpose of this we shall say there are:
1. A manager who knows how to do the job they are managing.
2. A manager who does not know how to do the job they are managing.

Contrary to popular belief the second type (which I have not been - but who I have worked for) are actually often very good - that is why they are management because they know how to manage workloads, resources and disputes (as should a manager who does not how to do the job - albeith they sometimes let there bais on how it should be done interfere with more modern techniques).

But fine let us assume that Bandana grew up on a airship but doesn't know anything about airships: whats an engine, a wheel, a sail someone asks ... no clue says she (I think that is selling her short but fine happy to accept that for this).

She should still be present to supervise unknown agents wandering around her ship, she should still be listening to her crew and the contractors to resolve disputes and make - you know - management decisions.

Instead she delegated that to a likely sleep deprived crew member, who than went on to work until the following morning.
If you have never done a 24 hour shift than please accept that it is unpleasant (this is my experience maybe other people love em - so subjective opinion and all).
It is presumedly more unpleasant when you have to deal with unknown contractors that are actively engaged in critiquing your work, further when you need to be focused to understand everything they are doing in case you need to do another patch job of it, again further when you need to consider that any one of them out of your sight might be damaging the thing you need to work properly to avoid death for collusion with the ground - and might be damaging it due to malice or incompetance.

Had Bandana been present she might have been utterly useless at everything repair related - but she might have been able to mediate contractor/employee differences and might have been able to keep an eye out for suspicious behaviour - 'hey Andi, why do you think that gnome is cutting half way through the rope the sail is attached to?" she might ask.

As it happens the Gnomes seemed to fix it without issue - but that doesn't mean all the work of dealing with them was simply and it does not mean that Bandana was retroactively justified in swanning around town and hoping for the best while someone else did their own job and hers.

I'm seeing a lot of speculation as to the state of Andi's well being. There isn't any evidence that Andi was in any particularly poor condition to supervise, and given that she does, in fact, know how the engineering of the ship works, guaranteed, why would bandana choose to stay behind instead of work to resupply in town?

[Peelee]

dancrilis, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if you argue that a manager who does not know how to do the job they are managing can still be good managers if they know how to delegate, and then criticize Bandana for delegating.

If that is not what you meant, then i oppose your final premise regardless, as a good manager does know how and when to delegate, and that seemed like a perfect time to do so.

[dancrilis]

I'm seeing a lot of speculation as to the state of Andi's well being.
Go back through it and check your night/day/night times - or don't whatever you like.



There isn't any evidence that Andi was in any particularly poor condition to supervise, and given that she does, in fact, know how the engineering of the ship works, guaranteed, why would bandana choose to stay behind instead of work to resupply in town?
To be available to make management decisions and resolve disputes - but sure that might not be important on rushed projects on what might be flying death traps.


dancrilis, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if you argue that a manager who does not know how to do the job they are managing can still be good managers if they know how to delegate, and then criticize Bandana for delegating.

If that is not what you meant, then i oppose your final premise regardless, as a good manager does know how and when to delegate, and that seemed like a perfect time to do so.

No.

Saying that my stance is either:
A) They should delegate - but not delegate.
or B) They shouldn't delegate.
Would be inaccurate.

Bandana delegated the overseeing of repairs to Andi - fine.
Bandana also delegated everything else to Andi - not fine.

Andi's seems the best person to oversee repairs, but should she be in a position to authorise shore leave or deny it?
For example: she might feel that Felix would be better on the ship cataloging items that the gnomes use rather than buying winter wear for the adventurers - but does she have the authority to decide that?

Further if Andi and the Gnomes have a falling out and the Gnomes decide to walk off the project it would be Bandana's job to fix matters with the contractors ... except she was in town.

As the Captain/Manager etc in times of crisis it is vital to be contactable - she instead was fighting a Golem ... a Golem who had absolutely no interest in her and who she could have just walked away from (had Bozzok attacked the ship and Crystal was a distraction the crew would likely not have fared well).

Also it is frankly a bit dim for her to trust Haley's unsupervised deal with the Gnomes.
For all Bandana knows Haley's deal with the Gnomes was
:haley: can you make it fly for three week for ~50K Gold by tomorrow, that is all I need - if it crashes after that who cares.

She doesn't know Haley - and if she did she would know Haley is a good liar - and if that was Haley's only method of getting the Order to the Last Gate she might very well have done it even with knowing her.


I am having difficulty understanding how other people can possible see the idea that she went swanning around town rather than being with the ship as anything other than her shirking her responsibilities - but fine different life experiences I suppose, potentially due to different cultures (working or otherwise).

[Jasdoif]

Andi seems to be taking issue with bandana's competence, though she also seems to be judging Bandana on her age rather than her performance.I'm not sure...I'm starting to get the impression Andi's main issue is that she wasn't the one left in charge, and Bandana's the target of the related frustration because Bandana was left in charge.

[8BitNinja]

Kinda looks like Belkar ain't that shabby a cook.


Cooking is one of Belkars two skillsets.

Cooling is probably a natural ability to halflings. I'm going to need more information though, but Tolkien appears to be dead.

Is there a cleric here that knows planar shift? I need to go to Mount Celestial

[theNater]

Go back through it and check your night/day/night times - or don't whatever you like.
I do like a good excuse to check the archives!

Immediately after the storm, they're about 12 hours from Tinkertown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0956.html). That dusk, Andi is doing some patching (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0961.html) which is sufficiently non-critical that she can just drop it to chat with a passenger. We don't see her again until the next morning, in Tinkertown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0965.html), when she appears well-rested. Claims that she was working all night are not supported.

Time then goes a bit wonky, as Bandana's gallivanting is done in time for brunch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0981.html), but we next see her that evening, at the ship (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0988.html), speaking as if events had just concluded. At that point we learn the repairs will be done by dawn, suggesting that an all-nighter may be coming up now. We don't see Andi again until after the Godsmoot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html), so it's hard to say, but she appears well-rested then, as well.


Andi's seems the best person to oversee repairs, but should she be in a position to authorise shore leave or deny it?
For example: she might feel that Felix would be better on the ship cataloging items that the gnomes use rather than buying winter wear for the adventurers - but does she have the authority to decide that?
You seem to have confused the Mechane with a navy vessel. These are pirates; they aren't under contract, they haven't sworn an oath of duty. They're here because they want to be. If Felix decides to just wander off while they're in port, that's his prerogative. Julio's only claim to captaincy is ownership of the airship, and his only claim to authority is that the crew are willing to follow his orders. Andi's authority over Felix extends exactly as far as he will let it.

[Werbaer]

Truly the sexy shoeless god of war is a multi-talented individual.
Belkar: I have exactly two skillsets, and you get mad when I use the other one! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0738.html)

[dancrilis]

I do like a good excuse to check the archives!

Immediately after the storm, they're about 12 hours from Tinkertown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0956.html). That dusk, Andi is doing some patching (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0961.html) which is sufficiently non-critical that she can just drop it to chat with a passenger. We don't see her again until the next morning, in Tinkertown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0965.html), when she appears well-rested. Claims that she was working all night are not supported.

In fairness I was careful about that.


after Andi may have pulled an all nighter to prevent the crew dieing in a watery grave and fixing repairs on the ship, and followed likely by another all-nighter to fix the engine with the gnomes

likely sleep deprived
Frankly I think it likely that her repairing damage to the the ships inner walls likely took all night - but maybe it didn't she might have a 'hammer of mending' or somesuch.


Time then goes a bit wonky, as Bandana's gallivanting is done in time for brunch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0981.html), but we next see her that evening, at the ship (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0988.html), speaking as if events had just concluded. At that point we learn the repairs will be done by dawn, suggesting that an all-nighter may be coming up now. We don't see Andi again until after the Godsmoot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html), so it's hard to say, but she appears well-rested then, as well.
This one I think it is more likely she stayed up to do - she made a commitment to have it done by morning, maybe she left it in the hands of the gnomes but that seems unlikely given her characterisation.
It also seem irrevalavant as to whether Bandana should have stuck around to oversee items on the ship during the day - again any random thing that might occur where a firm management decision would be needed.



You seem to have confused the Mechane with a navy vessel. These are pirates; they aren't under contract, they haven't sworn an oath of duty. They're here because they want to be. If Felix decides to just wander off while they're in port, that's his prerogative. Julio's only claim to captaincy is ownership of the airship, and his only claim to authority is that the crew are willing to follow his orders. Andi's authority over Felix extends exactly as far as he will let it.
Which is kindof the point? Bandana is in charge because Julio said she was and the crew respect that ... so leaving them when she decides to swan around town instead of assuming the role she claims is the issue with how Bandana handled this.

I don't know how this will play out - maybe Andi will be a villain (signs being her body shaming of Belkar and her Ageism, accepting command when they like the command) , maybe Bandana will be shown to be a villain (someone who wants to claim responsibility without doing the work so that she can order others around), maybe both will resolve there issues together by having a sit down and all will be good, maybe both will be bad and be castoff from the ship ... who knows, not me.

But currently from what I have seen of Bandana she doesn't deserve the respect or loyalty of the crew (she didn't even know to pay them until one of them reminded her), Andi may be somewhat abrasive (which I don't mind) but she is shown to be competant (which I appreciate).

[GM_3826]

I guess Jumping and Smelling don't really count as "skillsets" in the real world.

[Shoelessgdowar]

But "the crew" isn't a single entity that speaks with a single mouth. For "the crew" to decide to do something that the captain doesn't want them to do, requires that someone take the lead in telling the captain, "No, we're not going to spend the rest of our lives playing 'how close to the North Pole can this airship go'".

Rich is setting up to have a crewmember available to say "No, we're not doing that" when the time comes. Imagine that the famous "Mechane Crewman with eyepatch and beard (panel 6) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html)" is the one to do so, would that feel reasonable?

Nope, this is necessary setup for "the crew" to run out of goodwill. Because the crew only does anything when someone in the crew decides the crew should do that thing and the others agree. Andi is (possibly) being set up as the member of the crew who triggers that action.


Hey, leave poor Sasha Patchybeard out of this, he is just trying to do his job and keep his head low, he gets paid, he handles riggings, he gets upstaged by the younger, biclopsian, beardless model, and probably doesn't feel to happy about it.




Clearly Andi would like to lead a mutiny and throw Bandana and her new friends off the ship. But I'm not seeing how she'd do that. The last time the subject came up, she lost--decisively--and lost because, of Andi and Bandana, one was indeed out of touch with the wishes of most of the crew, and it wasn't Bandana. The Order can easily pay the crew more, if they start feeling ill-used again. Andi would need to convince them to up their demands to "far more than is reasonable or than they would have gotten in the same time frame if Julio was still there" before the Order wouldn't agree, and last I saw, she was trying ineffectively to convince them to return to active piracy as a matter of principle.

Oh, and for the benefit of anyone who reads this not getting the punchline: Belkar went to make steaks, and the ship's cook let him start doing so, or possibly discovered him in the kitchen having already started to cook them. Then, while cooking, Belkar clarified that he meant them to destroy the vampire(s), and the cook said, "No, no, that's a homophone." Belkar, thinking the cook was unjustly accusing him of a prejudice against LGBT people which he doesn't have, replied, "No, you're a homophone!" And apparently the cook explained to Belkar that the kind of stake that could destroy vampires was a piece of sharpened wood off-panel. The fate of the steaks Belkar got partway into cooking is unknown; I would guess that if Belkar didn't finish them the cook probably did, since it wouldn't make much sense to let them go to waste.

Actually, if they were cooked in an oak fire and marinated in garlic and holy water, but kept extra rare, they might qualify as tartare, which means he could still use them to kill the vampires... what Vampire could resist the delicious sent of bloody steak with a heavenly aroma?




Yup.
Actually to make Holy Water you need a hefty amount of powdered silver (as "material component"). The metal is rarely allergic for human skin but who knows about halflings?

(Wild theories about Belkar being a lycanthrope incoming) :)


That could explain his anti-vampire bent... you know it is a classic rivalry.



Which Bandana is still doing: Steering the ship, right? Sure, she no longer exclusively steers the ship, but has a bunch of added duties. Sounds like captain to me.

Even in a less modern military, the "commander of a technical unit" (captain) should be able to know his "technical unit" (ship) from the in and out. An officer who hasn't served lots of time in a tank and who doesn't know even the basics of tank logistics, is unfit to command a tank brigade. The captain of a sailing ship who doesn't know how to navigate his vessel against the wind can't plan his course, his maneuvres and is basically useless.

So: Bandana knows her ship sufficiently (but isn't an engine whiz), and Andi does too (but isn't really good in people skills). Julio, being a CHAR-20 character, of course trusted Bandana with his job. If Julio were a tinkering gnome, his reasoning might have been different. Anyway, Bandana isn't good enough a leader for her crew, so her command is going to blow up in her face.


Actually, Bandana is still steering the ship, just now it is both physically and metaphorically. As the leader, Bandana steers the ship's goals and obligations, its overall course... while as Pilot Bandana steers the ship's heading and physical direction, its overall course. Of course.



Three skillsets. His skillsets are Murder, Cooking and Jump Good.

I think Belkar has far more skillsets, than those. Murder, Cooking, Jumping, Animal Befriending, Recognizing Evil, Singing, Plot Driving, Surviving, Kobold Corpse Usage, Snarking, Comedic Timing, Taunting, Role Playing, Vocabulary abuse... and he is expanding the list all the time.


Belkar: I have exactly two skillsets, and you get mad when I use the other one! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0738.html)

Just because Belkar doesn't realize he is far more diversified in skills, doesn't mean he isn't, also, the comic you chose was before Belkar had a full handle on some of the many skillsets I mentioned above, or before he discovered he had some of them, it is possible that in the past 305 strips he has come to realize he has more skillsets.

[dancrilis]

I think Belkar has far more skillsets, than those. Murder, Cooking, Jumping, Animal Befriending, Recognizing Evil, Singing, Plot Driving, Surviving, Kobold Corpse Usage, Snarking, Comedic Timing, Taunting, Role Playing, Vocabulary abuse... and he is expanding the list all the time.


Aren't all those part of the Murder skill set?

[Peelee]

Actually, if they were cooked in an oak fire and marinated in garlic and holy water, but kept extra rare, they might qualify as tartare, which means he could still use them to kill the vampires... what Vampire could resist the delicious sent of bloody steak with a heavenly aroma?

"Tartare" generally means raw.

[theNater]

Frankly I think it likely that her repairing damage to the the ships inner walls likely took all night...
Based on what?


It also seem irrevalavant as to whether Bandana should have stuck around to oversee items on the ship during the day - again any random thing that might occur where a firm management decision would be needed.
Time going wonky is relevant because Bandana being gone for a couple of hours is different from Bandana being gone all day.


(she didn't even know to pay them until one of them reminded her)...
At which point she got them paid extravagantly for minimal work.

[Kish]

I would also point out that "didn't remember to pay them" could also be rephrased to "didn't realize that she was the only one on board who was counting 'paying for the bulk of our really expensive ship repair' as something that meant anything."

[DaggerPen]

Were Andi really secure in her claim to the ship and viewing Bandana as just a kid getting experience, one might imagine she would be a little more patient and willing to explain to the kid making newbie mistakes who's already landed them a cushy payday regardless.

[Jasdoif]

Were Andi really secure in her claim to the ship and viewing Bandana as just a kid getting experience, one might imagine she would be a little more patient and willing to explain to the kid making newbie mistakes who's already landed them a cushy payday regardless.Perhaps Merchtopian Julio's view on job security (http://www.cafepress.com/orderofthestick/8296513) reflects in-universe Julio's?

[Corneel]

I'd also like to point that Dancrilis' complaints about Bandana aren't reflected in Andi's comments about the situation in the comic. She hasn't complained about Bandana gallivanting off during repairs, not taking her management duties seriously or forcing Andi to supervise repairs while sleep deprived.

So whatever the relative value of Dancrilis' reasoning about Bandana's fitness for command of the vessel, it is not in evidence in the comic that Andi follows the same reasoning.

So even if Dancrilis, despite most people disagreeing with him, is right about Bandana's competence, as far as the comic shows his beef with Bandana is not Andi's beef with Bandana.

[Jasdoif]

...as far as the comic shows his beef with Bandana is not Andi's beef with Bandana.Beef? You think Andi's not sharing her steak?

[Corneel]

Beef? You think Andi's not sharing her steak?
Why should she. Everyone has their own st(e)ak(e).

[Jasdoif]

Why should she. Everyone has their own st(e)ak(e).Well, if Andi has a beef with Bandana like you said, then Andi's clearly sharing her steak; why would she share with Bandana and not dancrilis? It sure doesn't look like there's too much at steak....I thought for a moment that maybe the cow was cursed with an accuracy penalty, but why would Andi eat any of a miss-steak?

[Corneel]

Well, if Andi has a beef with Bandana like you said, then Andi's clearly sharing her steak; why would she share with Bandana and not dancrilis? It sure doesn't look like there's too much at steak....I thought for a moment that maybe the cow was cursed with an accuracy penalty, but why would Andi eat any of a miss-steak?
There's more than one steak in a beef.

[Kish]

I'd also add that talking about Andi's working hard to repair the ship in terms of her having a legitimate grudge against Bandana smacks of "Bandana is wrong because she's Bandana." Bandana and the people Andi wanted to stop acting like a "ferry service" for arranged for the ship's repair; Andi spearheaded the movement to treat the repair being paid for as worth nothing to anyone but Bandana.

[Corneel]

I'd also add that talking about Andi's working hard to repair the ship in terms of her having a legitimate grudge against Bandana smacks of "Bandana is wrong because she's Bandana." Bandana and the people Andi wanted to stop acting like a "ferry service" for arranged for the ship's repair; Andi spearheaded the movement to treat the repair being paid for as worth nothing to anyone but Bandana.
Well if they hadn't played ferry service for the OoTS, they might not have needed those repairs, so the argument is not totally without merit.

[Squeeq]

You know, I feel like going into town and having a wacky and dramatic adventure with a bunch of PC's is probably exactly the kind of leadership skills that Julio was demonstrating to bandanna et al. throughout the course of his captaincy, considering that he has ferried Elan around after their training, and ALSO spontaneously showed up in the desert on explicitly personal missions both times, without a guarantee of real pay. Except for the fact that the crew would be fans of Julio and not Bandanna, I can't see how any of her actions are particularly different than what Julio could be assumed to be doing, considering his character so far. Not that we expressly know everything of course.

[Kish]

Well if they hadn't played ferry service for the OoTS, they might not have needed those repairs, so the argument is not totally without merit.
I think that only seems to work on the surface. Piracy is dangerous. Substantially more dangerous than being a ferry service. Andi is exhorting the crew to get back to more dangerous activities; for her to argue for that at the same time as blaming Bandana for the recent damage to the ship would smack of the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach to the desired conclusion "Bandana shouldn't be in charge."

[Corneel]

I think that only seems to work on the surface. Piracy is dangerous. Substantially more dangerous than being a ferry service. Andi is exhorting the crew to get back to more dangerous activities; for her to argue for that at the same time as blaming Bandana for the recent damage to the ship would smack of the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach to the desired conclusion "Bandana shouldn't be in charge."
Surface reasoning sometimes trumps deep or true reasoning as far as convincing people goes.

[Iximaz]

I'm probably going to get lynched for saying this, but I think you guys are reading way too much into Andi saying she had a better claim to the ship than Bandana. Unless Scoundrél suddenly bites it/retires for good, it's irrelevant who's got a better claim to the ship. The line read more as a throw-away detail showing how much Andi cares about the Mechane to me, not that there's foreshadowing for an eventual mutiny or whatever.

But, you know, that's just my opinion.

[Kish]

That reads like you're thinking this is the first thing Andi's said against Bandana and people are jumping to conclusions based on it alone.

If that's accurate, there are multiple strips since they were introduced that it might be a good idea to reread--most of all this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html) one.

If you knew that, and you just don't think that tension will ever be brought up again, my apologies for misreading you.

[Basement Cat]

I'm not sure...I'm starting to get the impression Andi's main issue is that she wasn't the one left in charge, and Bandana's the target of the related frustration because Bandana was left in charge.

Yeah, I'm getting a "Fury of the undervalued" vibe from Andi, myself.

She's older than Bandana and has 15 years of experience keeping the Mechane together only to have Julio put "the kid" in command? Throw in her working overnight getting the Mechane fixed while Bandana goes out with the PC's and it's not hard to see why Andi is smarting with resentment.

This being a D&D world Julio placing Bandana in charge could be attributed to Andi having a lower charisma than Bandana.

[Basement Cat]

I think Belkar has far more skillsets, than those. Murder, Cooking, Jumping, Animal Befriending, Recognizing Evil, Singing, Plot Driving, Surviving, Kobold Corpse Usage, Snarking, Comedic Timing, Taunting, Role Playing, Vocabulary abuse... and he is expanding the list all the time.


Please don't forget "Craft Disturbing Mental Image" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html) :smallbiggrin:

[DaggerPen]

Yeah, I'm getting a "Fury of the undervalued" vibe from Andi, myself.

She's older than Bandana and has 15 years of experience keeping the Mechane together only to have Julio put "the kid" in command? Throw in her working overnight getting the Mechane fixed while Bandana goes out with the PC's and it's not hard to see why Andi is smarting with resentment.

This being a D&D world Julio placing Bandana in charge could be attributed to Andi having a lower charisma than Bandana.


Please don't forget "Craft Disturbing Mental Image" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html) :smallbiggrin:

Just as a friendly heads up, in order to avoid double posting, there's actually an edit option available in each post! If you want to reply to an additional quote specifically, you can just click the 'quote' button and copy/paste the information there to a new response. Double-posting is generally considered a bit of a faux pas around here, since it clogs up the post page and makes skimming the thread for a post harder, among other reasons.

[Kish]

If you want to reply to an additional quote specifically, you can just click the 'quote' button and copy/paste the information there to a new response.
Or click the multiquote button (pair of quote marks next with a + sign next to it) for each post and then hit Reply to Thread, or hit the quote button for only the last one you want to quote.

[DaggerPen]

Or click the multiquote button (pair of quote marks next with a + sign next to it) for each post and then hit Reply to Thread, or hit the quote button for only the last one you want to quote.

Good point! I meant more for just if you need to edit it in after you've already posted, but if you're posting all at once, multiquote is the best.

[8BitNinja]

Allergies to wet silver bricks

This is a common one among werewolves and iron alike

[Iximaz]

That reads like you're thinking this is the first thing Andi's said against Bandana and people are jumping to conclusions based on it alone.

If that's accurate, there are multiple strips since they were introduced that it might be a good idea to reread--most of all this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html) one.

If you knew that, and you just don't think that tension will ever be brought up again, my apologies for misreading you.

The latter. Yes, I think Andi's got reasons to be upset with Bandana, but not to the extent people are making it out to be. Even if Julio had handed control over to somebody more competent, people would have been dissatisfied with a change in the status quo. I'm 99% certain that it's just adding a bit of depth to the world and characters, and that it's not foreshadowing an eventual confrontation. (And if there was a confrontation, it would be more along the lines of "Hey, you're kind of not running things the way we like, so shape up, B" and not "I'm taking over as the captain now, k?")

[DaggerPen]

This is a common one among werewolves and iron alike

And... iron?

[Takver]

The latter. Yes, I think Andi's got reasons to be upset with Bandana, but not to the extent people are making it out to be. Even if Julio had handed control over to somebody more competent, people would have been dissatisfied with a change in the status quo. I'm 99% certain that it's just adding a bit of depth to the world and characters, and that it's not foreshadowing an eventual confrontation. (And if there was a confrontation, it would be more along the lines of "Hey, you're kind of not running things the way we like, so shape up, B," and not "I'm taking over as the captain now, k?")

Ooooh, I totally disagree. I mean, it sounds like you're saying that Andi doesn't have a good enough reason to cause serious trouble for Bandana (and our heroes.) And I agree with that. Andi's nursing a frustrated sense of entitlement that doesn't seem to entirely reflect reality. But this?


I'm 99% certain that it's just adding a bit of depth to the world and characters, and that it's not foreshadowing an eventual confrontation.

No way. Andi's problems with Bandana and the misuse (to Andi's mind) of the Mechane have come up in at least six comics (952, 961, 965, 988, 1028, 1043.) In the more recent three of those, by my judgment, this tension is a major focus of the strip. This is a plot point that's being developed. It started out with little snipes (Andi refusing to call Bandana "Captain," Bandana telling Andi not to get her knickers in a twist) and has escalated. In 1028, Andi tries getting the rest of the crew to side with her, but they're mollified by the money Roy offers them, which serves to divide her from them. In this comic, we learn more about her sense of protective ownership for the Mechane, her belief that she has been personally wronged by Julio's choice of Bandana as acting captain, and her continuing dissatisfaction with the general situation aboard the ship. In short, she's clearly being set up to blow. If this has all been just for a bit of flavor, that's bad writing.

[skim172]

Y'know, if we're gonna analogize the management structure of a fantasy pirate airship to that of a modern office environment, then I suggest that Andi lost out on the promotion for not correctly filing her TPS reports.

http://www.allsmileys.com/files/skype/62.gif

Meanwhile, Bandanna has never forgotten a single one of her co-worker's birthdays and she brings her special homemade cookies to the department potlucks, while Andi always brings just napkins.

And of course, Bandanna observes her workplace dress code so fanatically that she changed her own name to reflect the most iconic garment of the pirate life (a bandanna). Meanwhile, Andi wears a scarf. Imagine! A pirate wearing a scarf! It's not technically against the rules, but it is rather looked upon unfavorably by management. But no matter how many company-wide memos we send out subtly referring to the importance of enthusiasm and team spirit, some people just can't be bothered to reflect pride, passion, and flair in their professional dress.

And y'know, Andi NEVER forwards the company email chain letters. *shakes head*

[Basement Cat]

Just as a friendly heads up, in order to avoid double posting, there's actually an edit option available in each post! If you want to reply to an additional quote specifically, you can just click the 'quote' button and copy/paste the information there to a new response. Double-posting is generally considered a bit of a faux pas around here, since it clogs up the post page and makes skimming the thread for a post harder, among other reasons.

I know. I didn't mean to mess up. My toddler niece jumped on my lap and I got distracted.

Oops. :smallsmile:

Thanx for the friendly reminder. It's much more pleasant here than on some sites' forums.

[DaggerPen]

I know. I didn't mean to mess up. My toddler niece jumped on my lap and I got distracted.

Oops. :smallsmile:

Thanx for the friendly reminder. It's much more pleasant here than on some sites' forums.

No problem! Toddlers can do that sort of thing XD

[Peelee]

No problem! Toddlers can do that sort of thing XD

For a second, I thought you meant "toddlers can give polite heads-up," and I was all sorts of confused.

[Holy_Knight]

I know. I didn't mean to mess up. My toddler niece jumped on my lap and I got distracted.

Oops. :smallsmile:

So you're a cat who was distracted by a human jumping onto your lap? :smalltongue:

[Corneel]

So you're a cat who was distracted by a human jumping onto your lap? :smalltongue:
No doubt he lives in Soviet Russia.

[KorvinStarmast]

Y'know, if we're gonna analogize the management structure of a fantasy pirate airship to that of a modern office environment, then I suggest that Andi lost out on the promotion for not correctly filing her TPS reports. As long as nobody steals Andi's red stapler, the Mechane should be OK.

[Basement Cat]

So you're a cat who was distracted by a human jumping onto your lap? :smalltongue:


https://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2011/09/tigers-have-toddlers-too.jpg

OT: I know the Giant has declared that Belkar is still evil but given his "progress" over the last year or so (such as not taking excessive advantage of the cute lady gnome) I wonder where he rates on Heaven's scale of "Kilo-Nazis" these days. :smallconfused:

[8BitNinja]

As long as nobody steals Andi's red stapler, the Mechane should be OK.

It's okay, as long as Haley does not revert to her old self, we are okay.

If anyone sees her wearing her original outfit, tell Andi immediately.

[Ruck]

As long as nobody steals Andi's red stapler, the Mechane should be OK.

"Look, we'll research a spell to steal one copper piece out of the adventurers' bags every turn."
"They'll never notice."
"They did it in Superman III."

[8BitNinja]

I feel as if Belkar will either solve the current problem or start a new one, there is no gray area.

[Troy]

How can any OotS character confuse "steak" with "stake"? They have medium awareness and can see the dialogue written in speech bubbles (demonstrated in #584 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), where Elan refers to Qarr's red-and-black speech balloons and Lien admits that she has seen them).

[Kish]

How can any OotS character confuse "steak" with "stake"? They have medium awareness and can see the dialogue written in speech bubbles (demonstrated in #584 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), where Elan refers to Qarr's red-and-black speech balloons and Lien admits that she has seen them).
Ever see Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

EDDIE VALIANT: You mean you could have gotten out of those cuffs at any time?!
ROGER RABBIT: Not at any time! Only when it was funny!

Similarly, the Order see the text of speech bubbles instead of hearing it when Rich chooses to make a joke about that. And when he instead chooses to make a joke about "steak" and "stake" being homophones and "homophone" being close to "homophobe," they hear the words instead.

[Jasdoif]

Ever see Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

EDDIE VALIANT: You mean you could have gotten out of those cuffs at any time?!
ROGER RABBIT: Not at any time! Only when it was funny!

Similarly, the Order see the text of speech bubbles instead of hearing it when Rich chooses to make a joke about that. And when he instead chooses to make a joke about "steak" and "stake" being homophones and "homophone" being close to "homophobe," they hear the words instead.Yeah. And at times, it's not even the same for everyone within the same comic. Vaarsuvius lampshades homographs with "windy" in 837 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html), and the homophone scenario we're seeing implied in the current comic happened before, on panel, in 194b, where Redcloak corrects the MitD on saying "horde" when the accurate word was "hoard". So it's about as consistent as...Durkon's accent.

[Yendor]

Nobody said "steak" on-panel, so Belkar couldn't tell the difference.

[wolfdreams01]

Great comic, Rich! I love how you manage to show us plot development (ie, Belkar having increasingly healthy interactions with other people) while still always managing to deliver a solid punchline.

:smallsmile:

[Dragolord]

Yeah. And at times, it's not even the same for everyone within the same comic. Vaarsuvius lampshades homographs with "windy" in 837 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html), and the homophone scenario we're seeing implied in the current comic happened before, on panel, in 194b, where Redcloak corrects the MitD on saying "horde" when the accurate word was "hoard". So it's about as consistent as...Durkon's accent.

Minor nitpick: "Horde" and "hoard" have ever-so-slightly different pronunciations in many accents, including mine.

[Corneel]

How can any OotS character confuse "steak" with "stake"? They have medium awareness and can see the dialogue written in speech bubbles (demonstrated in #584 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), where Elan refers to Qarr's red-and-black speech balloons and Lien admits that she has seen them).Medium awareness might not help when the steaks are rare.

[rpgguy101]

Medium awareness might not help when the steaks are rare.
And that was well done. :smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

Medium awareness might not help when the steaks are rare.


And that was well done. :smallbiggrin:

Some would suggest that text be blue.

[8BitNinja]

How can any OotS character confuse "steak" with "stake"? They have medium awareness and can see the dialogue written in speech bubbles (demonstrated in #584 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), where Elan refers to Qarr's red-and-black speech balloons and Lien admits that she has seen them).

The OotSverse does not have universal laws, it has universal suggestions

[Shoelessgdowar]

Minor nitpick: "Horde" and "hoard" have ever-so-slightly different pronunciations in many accents, including mine.
Really?

Cause I always thought it made the battle cries on WoW all the more hysterical that those were homophones... some people are truly loyal and saying they're doing it "For the Horde" while others are in it for the loot and are doing it "For the Hoard".

[Doug Lampert]

Ever see Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

EDDIE VALIANT: You mean you could have gotten out of those cuffs at any time?!
ROGER RABBIT: Not at any time! Only when it was funny!

Similarly, the Order see the text of speech bubbles instead of hearing it when Rich chooses to make a joke about that. And when he instead chooses to make a joke about "steak" and "stake" being homophones and "homophone" being close to "homophobe," they hear the words instead.

Windy and Windy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html) are spelled the same, so Durkon couldn't tell the difference.
Note that in panel 8 of the linked comic V even comments on the fact that the pronunciations are different and they've only heard the words, not seen them written. And Haley tells her not to draw attention to that.

So Rich has previously lampshaded that he'll use pronunciation or spelling for jokes about heteronyms or homophones, whichever works.

[Liquor Box]

Belkar: I have exactly two skillsets, and you get mad when I use the other one! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0738.html)

See, he's modest too.

[The Artisan]

See, he's modest too.

Yes, calling one's self a Sexy Shoeless God of War is the paragon of modesty :smalltongue:

[8BitNinja]

Yes, calling one's self a Sexy Shoeless God of War is the paragon of modesty :smalltongue:

Of course it is. Modesty is the one where you boast about yourself, right?

[GM_3826]

See, he's modest too.


Yes, calling one's self a Sexy Shoeless God of War is the paragon of modesty :smalltongue:

I'm pretty sure Liquor is joking. :smallsmile:

[Quibblicious]

Of course it is. Modesty is the one where you boast about yourself, right?

It's not bragging if its true.

And it's not bragging if the bard says it happened.

Q

[8BitNinja]

It's not bragging if its true.

And it's not bragging if the bard says it happened.

Q

Bards do not brag, they sing of the epic feats of the valiant and honorable in the mead halls.

[Quibblicious]

Bards do not brag, they sing of the epic feats of the valiant and honorable in the mead halls.

Yea, verily, it is a heavy burden our lives bear, consuming great draughts of mead in exchange for spinning a comprehensive oral history of the heroes of the age, wooing lasses, and evading potential fathers-in-law...

It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.

Q