Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!

[Zevox]

Welcome to seventeenth GitP thread for Hearthstone. For anyone who doesn't know, Hearthstone is a video card game from Blizzard, based on the Warcraft series. The game is free to play and available here (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/), so if you're interested, give it a shot. You've got nothing to lose but your free time. :smallwink:

For new players, something to be aware of is that there are a number of hidden "quests" you can complete which will give you free gold, dust, or even a pack. A complete list can be found here (http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/1088-list-of-quests-and-daily-quests-in-hearthstone). Be aware that not quite all of those are ones you'll be able to complete quickly though.

And here is a list of Playgrounders currently in the game, for both NA and EU servers:

GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (US)
aethernoxethernox#1948
AgentPaperAgentPaper#1193
AmberVaelAmberVael#1225
AnarionAnarion55#1254
AntonokAntonok#1704
AnxeGoCorral#1879
BaelotBaelot#1149
CogwheelOmegaNixon#1123
banthesunbanthesun#1782
Dancing OwlbearOwlbear#1586
Destro YersulDestroYersul#1239
D_LordVolrock#1367
Duck999Duck999#1349
DuosDoctorDapper#1491
Firedaemon33Firedaemon#1486
flat_footedHiigara#1357
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
GAADGAAD#1126
GaelbertSamHouston#1563
GamerlordGamerlord#1612
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GanorenasGanorenas#1457
GomipileGlodd#1784
Gray MageGrayMage#1723
GrytormGrytorm#1777
HamsteTheorules#1234
Haruspex_PariahHaruspexPari#1254
HatevahHatevah#1405
heronbpvAvan#1991
HircineIllusiveMan#1616
jindra34JinRia #1770
JohnjimcoJohnJimco#1482
KarohtKaroht#1505
KishGrazzt#1417
KradeKrade#1266
LegoShrimplegoshrimp#1722
Landis963Landis963#1789
Loreweaver15Loreweaver#1199
Lunix VandalLunixVandal#1952
MacGiollaMacGiolla#1982
MathMageMathMage#1797
MCerberusMCerberus#1734
mistformsquirrlmistformsqrl#1430
moosabiMoossabi#1325
Mystic MuseNSFJunkblade#1400
Neon KnightVultureCrook#1434
Neriractorneriractor#1483
NerociteJoeKage#1852
nhbdyNohbdy#1927
OlinserOlinser#1393
OnionbreathGiantSquid#1845
OrcusMcPOrcus#1805
otakuryogaScootaloo#1471
Pokonicpokonic#1166
PsyBombPsyBomb#1878
QwertystopQwertystop#1897
r2d2gor2d2go#1262
RodinRodin#1811
RosstinRosstin#1609
SamBurkeSamBurke#1486
ShishnarfneGruschenka#1375
SholosVeebeebee#1383
Stabbity Rabbit StabityRabit#1362
TemoteiTemotei#1507
Tesla_pastateslapasta#1973
Thanatos 51-50Thanatos5150#1407
TheGlyphstoneGlyphstone#1419
The Hellbugthehellbug#1216
The_JackalTheJackal#1499
TogarthAsparag#1680
Trouble BrewingHairyPoppins#1949
UserCloneUserClone #1545
VolatarVolatar#1750
YaelUrashima#1810
YanaRaltis#1807
ZeroNumerousZeroNumerous#1913
ZevoxZevox#1522
ZmekJadeReaver #1783


GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (EU)
AdumbrationAdumbration#2419
Aran ThuleAranThule#2780
AvarisAvaris#2378
Avilan the GreyBeardedgeek#2355
Beelzebub1111SirArthurIV#1244
boomwolfBoomWolf#1169
DadaScrattlebear#2863
D-naras Dinos #2811
Epinephrine_SynSilverSeraph #2931
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
Frog DragonVasemmasti#2618
FyreByrdFyreByrd#2962
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GolemsVoiceCrazyCat#29897
HewhosaysfishHeWhoSezFish#2503
Hippie_VikingHippieViking#2866
Infernally ClayWinny#1904
JormengandTrianna#2529
LionheartLionheart#2440
Mr.SilverSilverSmiles#2462
MurmaiderMurmaider#2273
PoscaMazura#2636
RaddishRaddish#2730
ScionoftheVoidJayPsi#2775
ShinyRocksMoodyTuskarr#2790
SianSian#2690
SilfirSilfir#2863
SlyGuyMcFlySlGuyMcFly#2562
TokayTokay#2518
TomeTaejix#2836
VolthawkVolthawk#1214
WeimannWeimann#2716
WraithIllusionist#2224
XianderXiander#2814

[flat_footed]

My number was never updated, it's 1357.

[Yael]

I hadn't noticed that I weren't in the list :smalleek:

Urashima#1810 in the US Server :smallbiggrin:

I accept adds~

[Zevox]

My number was never updated, it's 1357.
Actually, it looks like what went wrong with yours was just a broken tag - sorry. It's fixed now.

[flat_footed]

Actually, it looks like what went wrong with yours was just a broken tag - sorry. It's fixed now.

Ahh, ok. Thanks!

[Destro_Yersul]

You run into the craziest stuff down at the lower ranks. I just came across an old-school face hunter. I thought Reno had killed all of those!

[turbo164]

Woo I named a thread! :smallcool:

Also, Wronchi continues to entertain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gulNsbnLeak

[Nerocite]

Ben Brode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7nlHXPLqU) talks about Purify. Good news is that it will not show up in arena, and they may change card frequency in arena independent of rarity in the future.

[Rodin]

Ben Brode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7nlHXPLqU) talks about Purify. Good news is that it will not show up in arena, and they may change card frequency in arena independent of rarity in the future.

I do respect that he came out and addressed the community about it. I think the main criticism still stands (and is one that he admits to in the video) - that if Purify had come out in a full expansion with a lot of cards pushing the power of Priest, nobody would have cared. It's a bad card, and bad cards happen. The issue is it being one of only 3 cards that Priest gets this adventure, and that really heightens the criticism. I do disagree with one thing he said though - he mentioned Majordomo Executus as a comparison "fun" card that isn't good but provides lots of chances for fun times.

The big difference with Majordomo is that he is NEUTRAL. No one class gets screwed over by his release, and as an Adventure card his existence doesn't even make people who get him randomly as a Legendary in a pack sad. There are Legendaries like that in this release too - Prince Malchezar and Moroes have both been brought up as cards that aren't good enough to see play, but nobody is upset about that because they are neutral minions. Anyone can build a deck around them and they don't affect the class power dynamics.

If Blizzard wants to push decktypes, that's fine, but they should either do so for classes that are already in a good spot, or do so in a full expansion where you can push for the decktype with one hand and balance with the other. Or just do so with Neutral minions, like all the Menagerie stuff that's hitting with this expansion (or as an even better example, Reno Jackson).

[Kish]

It won't show up in arena? Huh. Never heard that about a card before.

[Seerow]

Honestly, the biggest issue with Purify is that it's a spell. Brode makes a fair point about a 1 mana card cycle with any effect will get run just for the free card draw. So the question is "Why are we putting this effect on a card with draw?".


Seriously imagine if instead of Purify we had something like "Purifying Acolyte" 2 mana 2/3 that silences a friendly minion. Gives you a choice to play it as a semi-decent early game drop in a pinch, or use it as a combo card later in the game with minions with bad effects. (bonus points if they also add in a powerful 1 drop for priest with a mitigating effect to potentially combo with it.)

As an aside I think it would be interesting if Silence persisted even after death, so you could have things like Resurrect combo with this deck type; where you summon a monster with a bad drawback, silence it, then when it dies you resurrect it already silenced. (As an aside if the new resurrect minion is in fact random, I feel like making Resurrect a discover effect where you can pick 1 of 3 random dead minions it would be pretty helpful).

Still wouldn't do anything to solve the core priest issues (to my understanding they're far too combo driven and reactionary as it is), but could be an interesting addition rather than a waste of space.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It won't show up in arena? Huh. Never heard that about a card before.
The C'thun cards are also blocked from Arena because they didn't want to confuse players.

Basically, in this case, they're rushing out a patch on the big gaping wound that is Priest in Arena.

[boomwolf]

Still not enough.
It's a digital format, if you admit a card us utter trash before it's even released, fix the damn thing.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Still not enough.
It's a digital format, if you admit a card us utter trash before it's even released, fix the damn thing.
On the one hand, I can understand if they don't feel they're able to test the card enough to release a fixed version. But on the other hand, they no doubt have a number of weeks before the Priest wing releases.

Of course, this is probably a consequence of their no-patch philosophy. If they get the balance wrong ahead-of-time and release it in a too-powerful state, they won't patch the card with a slight nerf because they've refused to do that.

Also, what was wrong with Priest having access to a 1-mana cantrip with a possibly-beneficial effect? Cycling is a neat effect to give a class.

[Rodin]

Still not enough.
It's a digital format, if you admit a card us utter trash before it's even released, fix the damn thing.

They revealed it too late for that. The card would have to

A) Put it back into Design to re-form it into a decent card.

B) Run it through playtesting to make sure the new card isn't utterly broken (or even more worthless than Purify)

C) Run it through QA testing to make sure that no new bugs were introduced with the new card.

This would take several weeks at a minimum, more probably a couple months. Essentially, they would need to not release the card, and they can't even replace it with anything because even cards in development won't have gone through step C.

So as bad as it is, releasing it and admitting its garbage is still marginally less bad than yanking it and leaving Priest with only two cards.

Basically, Blizzard screwed up big-time. They misread the mood of the community, and have to suffer the hit. Hopefully it'll be a learning experience for them.

[Sian]

If there were more cards with either a bad deathrattle (Zombie Chow and Corrupted Healbot is the only one that springs to mind ... Dancing Swords would as well, if Mill decks weren't a thing) or a bad native magical effect (are there any of those?), it wouldn't be that bad ... only useful in niche decks sure, but not nearly as bad as it looks to be.

The easy cop-out, which would remove the 'Friendly' target, would make to to close to Silence IMO

[boomwolf]

They revealed it too late for that. The card would have to

A) Put it back into Design to re-form it into a decent card.

B) Run it through playtesting to make sure the new card isn't utterly broken (or even more worthless than Purify)

C) Run it through QA testing to make sure that no new bugs were introduced with the new card.

This would take several weeks at a minimum, more probably a couple months. Essentially, they would need to not release the card, and they can't even replace it with anything because even cards in development won't have gone through step C.

So as bad as it is, releasing it and admitting its garbage is still marginally less bad than yanking it and leaving Priest with only two cards.

Basically, Blizzard screwed up big-time. They misread the mood of the community, and have to suffer the hit. Hopefully it'll be a learning experience for them.



It takes zero testing to ensure there are no bugs in a simple fix like mana cost or changing the silence to any minion.

And I don't believe any playtesting was made to begin with if this card made it to the final version,especially when the vastly superior 'silence' already exists, and is utterly unplayed. The fact every half-decent heathstone player, from rank 15 dudes to tournament champions could conclude in under 10 second that the card is not even worth considering in any deck means it is THAT bad, that it could not have possibly been tested.

Its one of the rare cases a card could be very well technically unplayable (you got no minions on board), and yet it's still bad when the conditions are met as the effect isn't one worth having.

Sure, at zero mana it might spin out of control, but at either one mana, or two but silence everything-there is no way it would be overpowered.in fact it would most likely still be unplayable.


This card is the latest and biggest addition to the list of reasons I believe Ben brode has no business making a digital CCG. As he seems to be unable to grasp the base concepts of the digital format, and the CCG format.

[Gandariel]

Interesting video.

Frankly i am 100% sure that they have a bunch of already playtested and designed cards, ready for the next expansion. But that aside.

Bad for Priest now? He agrees.
Ban in Arena? He'll try removing it.

Sounds almost fair.

Anyways, a new meme was spawned, and probably the best video on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9QD6sxoJxk)

[turbo164]

On the one hand, I can understand if they don't feel they're able to test the card enough to release a fixed version. But on the other hand, they no doubt have a number of weeks before the Priest wing releases.

Of course, this is probably a consequence of their no-patch philosophy. If they get the balance wrong ahead-of-time and release it in a too-powerful state, they won't patch the card with a slight nerf because they've refused to do that.

Also, what was wrong with Priest having access to a 1-mana cantrip with a possibly-beneficial effect? Cycling is a neat effect to give a class.

Power Word Shield already exists :/

[PsyBomb]

At one, I can possibly see Purify leading to shenanigans, but I don't think it would happen (something like a Miracle Priest into Velen Combo).

...thinking about it, might try it out anyway, next to that low-win-rate Silence Priest.

[Gandariel]

At one, I can possibly see Purify leading to shenanigans, but I don't think it would happen (something like a Miracle Priest into Velen Combo).



The point is that unless you *reliably* have something on the board AND silencing it provides an actual, significant advantage, Purify is just worse than Novice Engineer.


I've PW:S'd enemy minions in more than one occasion, Purify has a very high chance of being straight up useless.

[TechnoWarforged]

Honestly I think the problem isn't Purity being a bad card, but rather the Other two cards for priest isn't really at par with all the other cards that's coming out for other classes.

In this expansion we have Rogue who possibly can get a new archetype by stealing cards from other classes.
Hunters reinforce their archtype with more zoo beast that sticks to the board
Paladin got a card that help fix dragon paladin by giving an early dragon synergy card, and their chess piece is at least interesting
Shaman got some synergy going with totems again.
Warlock got some more cards that's discard base and some singing cutlery and teapots.
Warriors got another weapon that's interesting and potential combo with protect the king.
Some classes gets portal theme as fillers (not sure what Karazhan has to do with portals, except Medievh opening up one for the Orc invasion)

Priest has Onxy bishop which really doesn't do anything. The baseline for a 5 cost minion is 10 stats and here you have a 3/4 that'll definitely be killed by anything that's on the board at Turn 4. To justify that stat line you have to have a really powerful effect for this card. so basically it's a 3/4 body and a resurrect effect for 5 mana which looks fair on paper, except resurrect really isn't that reliable, and to make resurrect reliable you literally have to play strong minions in the early game which priest notoriously lacks. You could maybe say have soul priest & circle on T4, and then bring it back on T5 via Onxy bishop but to reliably do that you have to summon nothing else. Or you could summon Doomsayer in T2, Soulpriest in T4, Onxy bishop T5 and pray you survive the early game.

We could have the same argument for any other T1 to T4 drops for priest, the problem is the more early minions you summon early game; the less reliable Onxy bishop is going to resurrect that minion you need. It is fine except 1) Priest's early game minion don't synergize (as in they don't do the same thing), 2a) they don't do enough to gain board control, 2b) some require some sorta setup via lightspawn with hearthbuffs/Holy Champion with healing/Northshire Cleric with infinite draw so just bringing them back on their own won't do anything, and 3) have to trigger battlecry to be effective via Museum Curator/Wyrmest Agent/Twilight Whelp.

Priest of the Feast is another card that would have fooled us a two expansions ago due to how we over-rated spells in Hearthstone. If we can't make holy champion sticks, how are we going to get healing out of it enough to justify putting this card in your deck. 3/6 body for 4 will make it stick around for a turn but you need to babysit via healing to make it stay alive AND use spells in some way to make use of it's trigger. The best I can come up with is holy nova. Holy Fire would work too but holy fire on it's own is a pretty good card, so you'll have 8 points of healing total and 8 damage (5 from holy fire and 3 from attacking with the priest of the feast on T5). Not bad, except priest is kinda flooded with 4 drops between soulpriest, shifting shade, holy champion, and hooded acolyte for c'thun priest.

All this outrage for Purity is just the symptom for the problem with priest's class design. Blizzard probably went to the design team and set these restrictions 1) Silence isn't fun so you can't make a card that silent opponent's minions, 2) Make a card that let priest minion comes back, 3) make priest stay alive via some combo. So the team comes up with these three cards. I highly suspect that Purity will be useful in some events and it's pushing for some silent archetype with silent priest. (Ancient Watcher/Eerie Statue/Fel Reaver/Rag)

Honestly I'm still a strong believer that blizzard should go back to it's roots and make priest combo again, and to do that they need some mechanic that'll let them do what Scry does in MTG. Basically Tracking for Hunters to give them a way to reliably pull their combos.

[Gandariel]

Whoa whoa whoa, Priest of the Feast is a pretty decent card!

It's honestly good and nobody had anthing to complain about it. Well, I mean aside from the fact that it's another 4-drop and we need 2s and 3s.

The existence of many cheap spells (Coin, Flash Heal, PWS, Circle) means that A) you can burst heal with this (turn 4 Priest Coin Flash heal is 11 health and a 3/6 on board)
And B) if your opponent is Aggro he is forced to deal with it or he'll eventually run out of steam and lose.


As for Onyx Bishop, I'm actually happy about it.

It's certainly not OP, but it's a very interesting card.

Resurrect is in theory a very strong card, but decks based around it wouldn't really work because well, you only had two copies of it in your deck and there's a decent chance that you'd just not draw any and be really sad.

Now you can have 4, which makes the archetype more consistent.

I don't know if the resurrect deck is good, but thanks to Onyx Bishop we can finally try it and see if it works.

Overall Onyx Bishop is a build-around-me card and it doesn't look *extremely* promising, but it is definitely interesting and I'm happy they printed it.


For example, if they print a 2 mana 4/5 with Battlecry: Gain -2/-2, it will work very well with both Onyx Bishop AND Purify.

[The Glyphstone]

Interesting video.

Frankly i am 100% sure that they have a bunch of already playtested and designed cards, ready for the next expansion. But that aside.

Bad for Priest now? He agrees.
Ban in Arena? He'll try removing it.

Sounds almost fair.

Anyways, a new meme was spawned, and probably the best video on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9QD6sxoJxk)

The hell did I just watch.

[TechnoWarforged]

For example, if they print a 2 mana 4/5 with Battlecry: Gain -2/-2, it will work very well with both Onyx Bishop AND Purify.

So basically Injured Blademaster.

Edit: Also I think blizzard took the right step to adjust arena. It leaves them more room to balance cards if they can change the frequency of the card showing up. For once you won't go into arena facing mages with 4 flamestrike!

[Seerow]

So basically Injured Blademaster.

Basically, but it gets combod with silence instead of healing.



As an aside, if they did go that route, I vote the new card be named "Unicorn".

[boomwolf]

And injured blsdemaster junior is also decent enough to serve as a 1 drop, and not utterly suck to rez.
Just need a few more cards for early, finish the top as a nzoth deck, and you got yourself a possible priest deck.

[BRC]

I'm actually with Ben Brode on this one, especially the part where he says he's wrong.

They were never going to make Priest a viable arena class with 3 cards. That wasn't happening, if the point of Purify is to enable hypothetical funcombos with Barnes (Barnesing out a Deathwing, then Purifying it into a 12/12), then that works.

The issue is that right now the Hearthstone community is full of people complaining how weak Priest is, and is looking for a sign that the dev team knows and acknowledges that.

And Purify is just such an aggressively bad card (yes, it has high POTENTIAL, but tons of cards in Hearthstone have amazing Potential while remaining terrible cards), especially since Priest of the Feast and Onyx Bishop are Okay at best. Putting it out right now seems like a slap in the face.

Removing it from Arena is a good first step, mostly because of the other big complaint: That Blizzard (by making Firelands Portal common) does not care about Arena balance.

It's not a solution, but they are admitting there is a problem.

[Kish]

(Barnesing out a Deathwing, then Purifying it into a 12/12)
Hold on, would that actually work? Is the 1/1 copy an exact copy with a "set stats to 1/1" debuff applied?

[heretic]

Hold on, would that actually work? Is the 1/1 copy an exact copy with a "set stats to 1/1" debuff applied?

Brode did give this an example of how a silence priest deck might find success.

[TechnoWarforged]

Brode did give this an example of how a silence priest deck might find success.

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv16/dandelionpike/Wizard-martiniselfie_zpsn4ajnard.png

He's saying Purity is useful? Burn the heretic!

[Kish]

I'm saying holy crap what? Silencing a 1/1 Deathwing-copy-token leaves you with a 12/12 minion? Silencing a 1/1 Nefarian token leaves you with a minion with Nefarian's original stats? That makes Barnes substantially more powerful as a combo piece than I realized!

[boomwolf]

Yes, but you still need to actually grab a good minion.

And its far easier to combo him off by simply filling your deck with good deathrattles than it is to go for a silence play.

And even if silencing your dudes WAS a viable stratagy, there are better ways. either the much cheaper silence itself (as pulling barnes plays 2 turns earlier is far more powerful, even if you dont get a card), or the more expensive yet far more universally useful silence minions.

[heretic]

http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv16/dandelionpike/Wizard-martiniselfie_zpsn4ajnard.png

He's saying Purity is useful? Burn the heretic!

I, uh, was just noting that Brode confirmed that the interaction works this way, and...

*flees angry mob*

[Legoshrimp]

Still not enough.
It's a digital format, if you admit a card us utter trash before it's even released, fix the damn thing.

The problem with this is that blizzard actively wants there to be useless cards. Also based on things like this, priest to be useless.


Also the whole we can't fix priest with 3 cards. THEREFORE, lets make the problem worse! YAY!

Seems silly :smalltongue:

[BRC]

The problem with this is that blizzard actively wants there to be useless cards. Also based on things like this, priest to be useless.


Also the whole we can't fix priest with 3 cards. THEREFORE, lets make the problem worse! YAY!

Seems silly :smalltongue:

It's more "They can't fix Priest with 3 cards, THEREFORE acknowledgement that they screwed up, and a (minor) step towards solving the problem (Removing Purify from Arena) is the best we could hope for after the card was released".

Really, had Priest recieved 3 mediocre cards, I don't think there would have been this outcry. But 2 okay-ish cards, and one aggressively terrible card, was seen as sending a message.

[Legoshrimp]

It's more "They can't fix Priest with 3 cards, THEREFORE acknowledgement that they screwed up, and a (minor) step towards solving the problem (Removing Purify from Arena) is the best we could hope for after the card was released".

Really, had Priest recieved 3 mediocre cards, I don't think there would have been this outcry. But 2 okay-ish cards, and one aggressively terrible card, was seen as sending a message.

It is sending a message, unless you think they are so incompetent at blizzard they didn't realize purify was a terrible card.

[Rodin]

Whoa whoa whoa, Priest of the Feast is a pretty decent card!

It's honestly good and nobody had anthing to complain about it. Well, I mean aside from the fact that it's another 4-drop and we need 2s and 3s.

The existence of many cheap spells (Coin, Flash Heal, PWS, Circle) means that A) you can burst heal with this (turn 4 Priest Coin Flash heal is 11 health and a 3/6 on board)
And B) if your opponent is Aggro he is forced to deal with it or he'll eventually run out of steam and lose.



The main issue with PoF is that it doesn't do anything to address Priest's main problem, which is how to translate survivability into winning the game. It may help vs Aggro, but Midrange and Control decks are still going to spank Priest like a naughty puppy since their answers are so poor compared to those of the other classes. PoF is not a bad card, but it does lend credence to the idea that Blizzard doesn't actually understand the Priest class very well.

[BRC]

It is sending a message, unless you think they are so incompetent at blizzard they didn't realize purify was a terrible card.
That's exactly what I think.

Some people may doubt, But I honestly believe that the hearthstone devs can be that stupid.

Because the thing is, unlike Great cards, Terrible cards don't really hurt the game. Hemet Nessingwary doesn't hurt the game, people just don't run him. Shatter doesn't really hurt the game, neither does Wisp, or Alarm-o-Bot, or The Boogeymonster, or Millhouse Manastorm.
Cards that hurt the game are stuff like Flamewreathed Faceless, Piloted Shredder, Sludge Belcher, and Doctor Boom.

So, if you're a hearthstone developer, you're MUCH more worried about your "Cool" card being too powerful, rather than being Too Weak. Powerful cards break the game, weak cards just don't get played.

So, yes, they may have realized Purify was a terrible card, good in only a few very specific Combos (And Hearthstone HATES cards like that. Unless it's a game-winning combo, Cards are expected to stand on their own without any other specific card in hand or board state), but they I could easily see them not realizing why it mattered.


As for the problem with Priest, I agree that Blizzard doesn't really have a clear idea of what Priest's "Thing" is.

I mean, healing, but Paladins do that as well, and that alone does not win you games (if Healing alone won you games, Reno would be broken).

Priests could be good at surviving until late-game, but they don't have a follow up. Warriors do Survival better, since they can Armor up beyond 30hp, plus plenty of options to keep control throughout the game.

All Priests can do is take more damage before losing.

Personally, I'm a fan of Priests having a bunch of cards that get more powerful at full health (Just use the Enrage mechanic, but it takes penalties), to encourage Priests to keep minions "Topped off" at full health as it were, the same way a Paladin's powerful buff spells synergize with their hero power making them more likely to untap with a minion on board.

[turbo164]

They were never going to make Priest a viable arena class with 3 cards. That wasn't happening,

Warrior saw a significant arena winrate boost when their chance to pull things like Warbot, Bolster, and Ogre Warmaul was reduced, and they gained Fierce Monkey and Doctor Seven with the new-set-multiplier.

New-set-multiplier Purify would have been horrid.

[PsyBomb]

The Barnes example was intriguing, and lit up the Johnny inside of me (for those familiar with the MTG terms). Still, it is unfortunate for Priest lovers that they get another few months of being the bottom of the barrel.

EDIT: WOOT! Got my thousandth win for the 300g prize, means I will actually probably be able to keep up with the first two wings released instead of just the first one.

[TechnoWarforged]

The Barnes example was intriguing, and lit up the Johnny inside of me (for those familiar with the MTG terms). Still, it is unfortunate for Priest lovers that they get another few months of being the bottom of the barrel.

The barnes example is also very unlikely too. Basically Barnes is a 4 to cast, and you'll need to have 6 mana to use Barnes and then Purity whatever that comes out. Nevermind the problem with Barnes having to pull out big bodies like deathwing. Ofcourse you can stock more big bodies so you can get a better chance of getting some good pulls out of Barnes but that'll also just flat out kill your curve. Alternatively you can have Brann triggering Barnes twice. However That'll mean you'll need Brann to stay alive for at least one turn, or play Brann and Barnes together at T7 and then have silence in hand.

This problem isn't unique and it's the problem every deck builder faces when they are trying to make a combo deck.


http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/hypergeometric.aspx

[Legoshrimp]

The Barnes example was intriguing, and lit up the Johnny inside of me (for those familiar with the MTG terms). Still, it is unfortunate for Priest lovers that they get another few months of being the bottom of the barrel.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2013-12-03

For people who are curious, and aren't familiar with MTG terms.

Also haha, I don't know if it is reasonable to expect priest being bottom of the barrel to change.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The main issue with PoF is that it doesn't do anything to address Priest's main problem, which is how to translate survivability into winning the game. It may help vs Aggro, but Midrange and Control decks are still going to spank Priest like a naughty puppy since their answers are so poor compared to those of the other classes. PoF is not a bad card, but it does lend credence to the idea that Blizzard doesn't actually understand the Priest class very well.
It's kinda sad that Priest's most reliable win condition is Elise Starseeker.

[Sian]

Personally, I'm a fan of Priests having a bunch of cards that get more powerful at full health (Just use the Enrage mechanic, but it takes penalties), to encourage Priests.

Which would synergize well with Silences being an alternate way of 'losing' the negative enrage mechanic ...

Although then we might get into the question if its a fun concept to get things that get worse if something pings them ... not quite unalike the old experiments they made when WoW Vanilla was in its Beta infancy with rest bonus vs fatigue penalty

[PsyBomb]

Which would synergize well with Silences being an alternate way of 'losing' the negative enrage mechanic ...

Although then we might get into the question if its a fun concept to get things that get worse if something pings them ... not quite unalike the old experiments they made when WoW Vanilla was in its Beta infancy with rest bonus vs fatigue penalty

It would actually synergize with the Hero Power, so that's something big. Right now, the only real use Priests are getting out of it is if their opponent can't QUITE take something down, or if you get something to survive to your next turn and translate the heals to extra clears. Other than that, it's only Soulpriest/Embrace to use it offensively, but I don't really consider that using the base power.

Eh, it's a nice thought.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Worth noting: Lightspawn already works like that. Only if you Silence it, it becomes terrible.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

As a mainly Shaman player the new class cards are interesting. More totems with the witch doctor, fine. The spell damage weapon is weird. It's a super win axe if activated, but we need to either bank on the 1/4 for the spell power totem or reserve card slots for spell damage. The fact that it's a weapon does mean we can play it first and activate it later. The portal is uh. If you put all three cards together it does seem to suggest a spell-heavy approach with spell damage.

[Togath]

So why do people dislike "purify"? At least to me it seems like a good card, turning stuff like shadow madness in a cheap mind control, or buffing things like ancient watcher(or removing debuffs from your minions).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'll admit that the Shadow Madness combo isn't one I had considered. The problem is, you're now paying 6 mana to steal...a minion with 3 or less attack. It's almost the same as Cabal Shadow Priest, but you don't get to play a 4/5 on the board.

And that's what's wrong with Purify, really. What you get for the mana cost isn't worth it. Ancient Watcher? 4 mana for a 4/5. Eerie Statue? 6 mana for a 7/7.

[Grytorm]

Basically, because Priest class is poor at higher levels of play and poor in Arena. Although you can do cute/fun things with the card it isn't strong enough to push the archetype. Maybe if they had printed it at one (where Brode said it was being run for the cycle) it might have been okay. But they didn't. Probably they should prepare 2 interchangeable cards for each class in the adventures. One poor, one good just so they can react to the meta.

[Zevox]

So why do people dislike "purify"? At least to me it seems like a good card, turning stuff like shadow madness in a cheap mind control, or buffing things like ancient watcher(or removing debuffs from your minions).
Silence is, for the most part, something you want to do to get rid of buffs or deathrattles on enemy minions. Purify can't do that.

Debuffs barely exist - just in Paladin in the form of Aldor Peacekeeper, Equality, Humility, and (almost never actually played) Eadric the Pure, basically. And most of the time, Equality will be used in a board wipe combo, and there's decent odds of Peacekeeper or Humility either setting up existing minions for a kill or being followed by a Kodo for a kill. Technically Hunter has Hunter's Mark too, but nobody uses that without killing the target immediately save in very rare cases. So that's one class out of nine where they're even a thing, and even there you often may not get a chance to do anything about it.

Comboing the card with Ancient Watcher, Eerie Statue, or a similar high-stats-plus-drawback minion is its best use, but as it stands, on Watcher that's a two-card combo to basically play a Yeti (same total mana cost, same stats). While Eerie Statue is a genuinely good target for it - that combo is basically Flamewreathed Faceless - it's still a two-card combo where both pieces are useless without the other, which is typically very bad. Beyond them I'm not even sure there's any notable targets at this point, either - Ogre Brute or that 3/5 for 3 that can only attack if your hero does I guess, but they're definitely not strong enough to warrant it, since either of those combos would be weaker than Ancient Watcher.

Comboing it with Shadow Madness would be incredibly niche, especially since Shadow Madness is typically a one-of when Priest runs it at all, and can only hit minions with 3 attack or less. Definitely not good enough to warrant running Purify.

And other than that, silencing your own minion is only good if they get frozen. So, when against Freeze Mage or on the rare occassion that something gets hit by a Water Elemental or Forstbolt and survives. Again, extremely niche, not the sort of thing you put a card into your deck for.

Basically, because the few cases where silencing your own minion is good are so niche and the few cards you can combo it with aren't actually strong enough to make the combo viable, on average it's 2 mana to do nothing but draw a card, assuming you have minions that aren't negatively affected by silence to cast it on. It can be 2 mana to weaken one of your minions just to draw a card. That's terrible - worse than Novice Engineer.

On top of that, Silence already exists, lets you target enemy minions, and costs 0 mana. If you want a silence spell in Priest, that card is better, because it does what you actually want a silence effect to do, and costs 2 less mana.

So yeah, it's just bad. And if you look back at that video someone linked to not long ago? The devs admit that. They actually don't intend it to be a good card, but rather to appeal to people who find gimmicky combos like Silence + Ancient Watcher/Eerie Statue to be fun. They just happen to have released this card at a bad time, since Priest is currently the weakest class in the game by a good margin, and people were hoping the new adventure would give them some help, but instead it gave them probably the worst new card of the set and a couple of other cards that aren't going to do much for them at the moment. At best, the new neutral Dragon-synergy cards may help Dragon Priest become better, but even that's up in the air. So people who were hoping for Priest to get that help are kind of latching onto Purify as a lightning rod for expressing their disappointment and complaints about that.

[Spore]

Purify is a good card concept. Just not for Hearthstone. The card is terrible on its own. It CAN become good with combos but not insane. And constructed is mostly insanely good combinations of cards. The game is too tempo focussed, the deck size too large, the game too quick for that. While I certainly didn't like the old priest because games took ages and usually ended after 15-25 turns the new priest is too fickle. They really need sticky minions, nothing else.

Not even the hope, the sacred 2-drop would help there. Priest needs things like Deathlords, Dark Cultists and Zombie Chows. Strong cards with dire drawbacks. Come to think of it, Purify might just be in the wrong set. Heck, I think Priest would be so happy with Pitlord's 5/6 and take 4 to the face. I will tinker with chinese priest because what do you do when your deck is not good? Use the opponents cards :)

[Mando Knight]

So why do people dislike "purify"? At least to me it seems like a good card, turning stuff like shadow madness in a cheap mind control, or buffing things like ancient watcher(or removing debuffs from your minions).

Shadow Madness returns the minion to your opponent when silenced.

As a cycle, it's worse than Power Word: Shield (which always improves the required minion and costs 1 mana), and as a Silence effect it's worse than Silence (which can target an enemy) or Spellbreaker (which at least puts down a 4/3 to go with your targeted Silence). It could see use in a gimmicky Barnes/Volazj deck, turning the 1/1s into larger minions, but again Silence is a 0-mana silence effect.

[Sian]

Comboing it with Shadow Madness would be incredibly niche, especially since Shadow Madness is typically a one-of when Priest runs it at all, and can only hit minions with 3 attack or less. Definitely not good enough to warrant running Purify.

Maybe not in itself, but its not like there have ever been a card that redefined a deck archetype :smalltongue:

Not saying that Purify is one such at current time , but catagorically stating that it aren't and won't be, is a bit too ... Who's to say that Priest might not get enough toys next expansion that actually make self-silence a viable style of play?

[AgentPaper]

I'll admit that the Shadow Madness combo isn't one I had considered. The problem is, you're now paying 6 mana to steal...a minion with 3 or less attack. It's almost the same as Cabal Shadow Priest, but you don't get to play a 4/5 on the board.

And that's what's wrong with Purify, really. What you get for the mana cost isn't worth it. Ancient Watcher? 4 mana for a 4/5. Eerie Statue? 6 mana for a 7/7.

While I don't think Purify is amazing, it's worth noting that you don't need to use the Purify on the same turn you play those minions, so in reality it's a 2 mana 4/5 and a 4 mana 7/7, with overload 2. The downside being that if you don't draw Purify, then those cards are probably not doing much for you.

[Gandariel]

AND if you don't draw those cards Purify is useless. See the problem?

[Zevox]

Maybe not in itself, but its not like there have ever been a card that redefined a deck archetype :smalltongue:

Not saying that Purify is one such at current time , but catagorically stating that it aren't and won't be, is a bit too ... Who's to say that Priest might not get enough toys next expansion that actually make self-silence a viable style of play?
That's kind of the key thing. We're not judging the card based on what Priest has in the next expansion - we can't, for obvious reasons. We are judging it based on what Priest has to work with right now, and right now, there's so little use for Purify that it amounts to one of the worst cards in the game. New expansions can always change things and make previously bad cards better in surprising ways (see for instance the fact that the new Warlock cards are making people actually consider using Succubus), but that only matters when it actually happens, not before.

[Rodin]

That's kind of the key thing. We're not judging the card based on what Priest has in the next expansion - we can't, for obvious reasons. We are judging it based on what Priest has to work with right now, and right now, there's so little use for Purify that it amounts to one of the worst cards in the game. New expansions can always change things and make previously bad cards better in surprising ways (see for instance the fact that the new Warlock cards are making people actually consider using Succubus), but that only matters when it actually happens, not before.

I kinda doubt Succubus will wind up seeing use anyway. 4/3 for 2 mana just isn't all that good since it trades into most 2 drops, and especially since it trades into the most popular 2-drops at the moment - Alexstrasza's Champion, King's Elekk, Huge Toad, Totem Golem (though that trade ain't bad), Cult Sorceror...

Basically, it's got the downside without much of an upside unless you can get your Discard synergy going. I'm not convinced it's worth it, especially when Darkshire Librarian already fits into the 2-drop slot nicely.

--------

On Purify, it would be a little bit different if it was a new mechanic that was being pushed. It isn't. Silence Druid was a thing before the nerf to Keeper, and even with ramp to push out the Eerie Statue the deck just wasn't good enough. Yeah, you could get wrecked if all the combo pieces got in place early, but that's kinda the problem - if you don't get the combo pieces, you just DIE.

Since 0 mana Silence is already a thing, the only thing that sets Purify apart is that it draws you a card. And that's...kinda bad design. If Purify is meant to be the lynch-pin of a deck built around silencing your own minions, you can't use it to cycle your deck, because you need it for something more important later.

--------

On Barnes, a fun thought: Stick him in Lock'n'Load Hunter. The deck only runs about 4-5 minions to begin with, so the chances of getting Barnes while having ONLY Malygos still in your deck are pretty decent. Get a single Thaurissian hit, and then on turn 7 play Barnes plus any combinations of Arcane Shot, On the Hunt, Quick Shot, and Kill Command.

[Zevox]

I kinda doubt Succubus will wind up seeing use anyway. 4/3 for 2 mana just isn't all that good since it trades into most 2 drops, and especially since it trades into the most popular 2-drops at the moment - Alexstrasza's Champion, King's Elekk, Huge Toad, Totem Golem (though that trade ain't bad), Cult Sorceror...

Basically, it's got the downside without much of an upside unless you can get your Discard synergy going. I'm not convinced it's worth it, especially when Darkshire Librarian already fits into the 2-drop slot nicely.
I agree - but still, the fact is that some are considering it, and will most likely test it. Which is a pretty good example of how new cards can influence the usefulness of old ones, since Succubus has been universally regarded as awful since the beta, but is now at least getting a second look because of new cards that synergize with it, even if it still probably won't quite make the cut.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Maybe not in itself, but its not like there have ever been a card that redefined a deck archetype :smalltongue:

Not saying that Purify is one such at current time , but catagorically stating that it aren't and won't be, is a bit too ... Who's to say that Priest might not get enough toys next expansion that actually make self-silence a viable style of play?
As it stands, however, there's a very real limit to how much self-silence is in the game. There's Silence, Purify, and then Owl/Spellbreaker (which are very inefficient for self-silencing if you don't draw the silenceable minions).

I mean, self-silence was never a thing that ever happened in the game...except for when Wailing Soul was around (an AoE self-silence), and even then it was a gimmick deck. Now we have less self-silence, and Purify's not going to fill the gap.

[Zevox]

I mean, self-silence was never a thing that ever happened in the game...except for when Wailing Soul was around (an AoE self-silence), and even then it was a gimmick deck. Now we have less self-silence, and Purify's not going to fill the gap.
Well now let's be fair - Watcher Druid was a thing for a while, as was Handlock silencing its Watchers with Owls. And silencing frozen or Peacekeeper'd minions is a thing that occasionally happened before Owl was nerfed.

It's just that Watcher Druid got replaced by better decks (Token, Ramp, and Midrange Druid), Handlock always had other (better) reasons to run Watcher and Owl besides using them together, and removing freeze and peacekeeper debuffs was always a rarely-used bonus option when running silence. So when those are the only options for Purify, it's just not good enough.

[heretic]

It's just that Watcher Druid got replaced by better decks (Token, Ramp, and Midrange Druid), Handlock always had other (better) reasons to run Watcher and Owl besides using them together, and removing freeze and peacekeeper debuffs was always a rarely-used bonus option when running silence. So when those are the only options for Purify, it's just not good enough.

Also, Druid's best silence card was nerfed into oblivion.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

To be fair, the idea of Priest having a deck where they summon 1/1 copies of minions and then silence them to full stats, cheating out huge tempo, is interesting, even if it has some big issues in implementation (like the tokens being too easy to kill and too hard to generate currently).

But I also think it's a little boring, since it totally sidesteps the Priest gameplan up until this point. It feels like it dilutes the Priest archetype in a weird, gimmicky way that's out of character with its identity.

[Rodin]

I agree - but still, the fact is that some are considering it, and will most likely test it. Which is a pretty good example of how new cards can influence the usefulness of old ones, since Succubus has been universally regarded as awful since the beta, but is now at least getting a second look because of new cards that synergize with it, even if it still probably won't quite make the cut.

Oh, sure, absolutely. The Discard stuff for Warlock is actual good design - pushes a new style of play with only a few cards, makes old cards potentially playable, and most importantly does so for a class that is already doing fine power-wise, which means that they are free to push the class in a different direction without damaging it. If Discard decks turn out to not be a thing? Oh well! They've still got Reno and Zoo, and the new cards potentially fit into both of them. Silverware Golem could really push the Doomguard variant of Zoo, and the Kazham spell goes great in Reno.

If only they'd put the same care into Priest.

[Landis963]

As I promised Anarion, I am putting my Dragon Priest decklist up for review:


0: Forbidden Shaping x2
Silence
1: Holy Smite x2
Power Word: Glory
Twilight Whelp x2
Museum Curator x2
Wyrmrest Agent x2
3:Blackwing Technician x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
4: Hungry Dragon x2
Twilight Drake x2
5: Excavated Evil x2
Holy Nova x2
6: Cabal Shadow Priest x2
Entomb x2 (was Temple Enforcer x2)
9: Ysera
10: Deathwing, Dragonlord

[Seerow]

So while most players with a lot of cards already will find this week's brawl boring, for me this is amazing.

Your choice of class, get a preconstructed top tier quality deck built around one of the old gods. So far got a chance to play C'thun Control Warrior and Yogg Mage, and have loved both. I expect to do all my quests this week in brawl.

[Joran]

This card is the latest and biggest addition to the list of reasons I believe Ben brode has no business making a digital CCG. As he seems to be unable to grasp the base concepts of the digital format, and the CCG format.

Ben Brode isn't in the business of making a digital CCG. Well, he's "lead designer", but does not appear to have a pivotal role in designing cards. Peter Whalen is in charge of initial card design, Mike Donais is in charge of balancing. The overall Hearthstone team is led by Eric Dobbs, all of this according to Brian Kibler.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4ww5wk/theres_an_alternative_universe_in_which_kibler_is/d6agsn6?context=3

He does have an important job which is apparently to take all the flak for any kind of negativity in Hearthstone, provide a nice, charimastic face, and do a good job of explaining the design team's rationale. He also described his work day on stream, which was apparently sitting in an unending torrent of meetings.

[Legoshrimp]

As I promised Anarion, I am putting my Dragon Priest decklist up for review:


0: Forbidden Shaping x2
Silence
1: Holy Smite x2
Power Word: Glory
Twilight Whelp x2
Museum Curator x2
Wyrmrest Agent x2
3:Blackwing Technician x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
4: Hungry Dragon x2
Twilight Drake x2
5: Excavated Evil x2
Holy Nova x2
6: Cabal Shadow Priest x2
Entomb x2 (was Temple Enforcer x2)
9: Ysera
10: Deathwing, Dragonlord
Hmm immediate thoughts on what seems odd.
Things that are included: 2x holy smite, silence, PW:G, 2x hungry dragon, 2x twilight drake.
Possibly: Museum curator, 2x holy nova AND 2x excavated evil.
Things that are missing: twilight guardian, northshire cleric, shadow word pain, 5/4 deal 3 damage guy (blackwing corruptor) , 6/6 DR deal 3 damage to all minions guy (chillmaw), maybe one or two more big dragons, 2x PW: shield, possibly rend blackhand.

I am guessing that some of these choices is because you don't have BRM, or the other cards.

It seems like you are missing the core of what makes dragon decks efficient.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ben Brode isn't in the business of making a digital CCG. Well, he's "lead designer", but does not appear to have a pivotal role in designing cards. Peter Whalen is in charge of initial card design, Mike Donais is in charge of balancing. The overall Hearthstone team is led by Eric Dobbs, all of this according to Brian Kibler.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4ww5wk/theres_an_alternative_universe_in_which_kibler_is/d6agsn6?context=3

He does have an important job which is apparently to take all the flak for any kind of negativity in Hearthstone, provide a nice, charimastic face, and do a good job of explaining the design team's rationale. He also described his work day on stream, which was apparently sitting in an unending torrent of meetings.
This is honestly very insightful, and it helps me to get some perspective on Designer Insights videos.

[Rodin]

So while most players with a lot of cards already will find this week's brawl boring, for me this is amazing.

Your choice of class, get a preconstructed top tier quality deck built around one of the old gods. So far got a chance to play C'thun Control Warrior and Yogg Mage, and have loved both. I expect to do all my quests this week in brawl.

It's quite interesting even if you have the cards, because the decks mostly aren't top-tier. They all have cards that don't get run in the most-run version of that deck, and quite a few of them are really off the wall. Most interesting so far I think is the Shaman one, which is a pretty good Evolve Shaman control deck.

Decks that are very standard:

Druid
Warrior
Priest
Warlock

Decks that are a little funky:

Mage
Hunter

Decks that are just plain OUT THERE:

Paladin
Shaman
Rogue

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, Paladin isn't very synergistic with any of the Old Gods. I got two iterations of Yogg Paladin, and went through 25 of my 30 cards without seeing Yogg. Saw two Equalizes, never got a Consecrate. Rest of the deck was Divine Shield Synergy. Third try with Paladin was, presumably, N'Zoth based on the 'your minions are good alive or dead' hint, but I never saw N'Zoth or any additional Deathrattle cards besides Sacrificial Hero. Fourth was C'thun paladin, but again the base deck was identical, never saw a single C'thun card before I won.

Rogue, on the other hand, is all N'Zoth all the time, Deathrattles everywhere. I would have won my first match, but the other Rogue topdecked his N'zoth the turn before I topdecked mine, and managed to get a lucky Infested Tauren to block my lethal. I never saw my N'zoth in round two, but won anyways.

[Rodin]

Yeah, Paladin isn't very synergistic with any of the Old Gods. I got two iterations of Yogg Paladin, and went through 25 of my 30 cards without seeing Yogg. Saw two Equalizes, never got a Consecrate. Rest of the deck was Divine Shield Synergy. Third try with Paladin was, presumably, N'Zoth based on the 'your minions are good alive or dead' hint, but I never saw N'Zoth or any additional Deathrattle cards besides Sacrificial Hero. Fourth was C'thun paladin, but again the base deck was identical, never saw a single C'thun card before I won.

Rogue, on the other hand, is all N'Zoth all the time, Deathrattles everywhere. I would have won my first match, but the other Rogue topdecked his N'zoth the turn before I topdecked mine, and managed to get a lucky Infested Tauren to block my lethal. I never saw my N'zoth in round two, but won anyways.

There are different variants of each deck? The ones I saw were all the same decklist.

[The Glyphstone]

There are different variants of each deck? The ones I saw were all the same decklist.

As far as I can tell the decklists don't change except for the specific Old God you're given, is what I'm saying. My Yogg Paladin, C'thun Paladin, and N'zoth paladin were all, AFAIK, identical decklists, since I never actually saw their respective Gods or any synergistic cards for any of them.

Similarly, both my N'zoth rogues were identical, loaded up with Deathrattles. I suspect it would be the same list even if I had gotten C'thun Rogue or Yogg Rogue.

[Rodin]

As far as I can tell the decklists don't change except for the specific Old God you're given, is what I'm saying. My Yogg Paladin, C'thun Paladin, and N'zoth paladin were all, AFAIK, identical decklists, since I never actually saw their respective Gods or any synergistic cards for any of them.

Similarly, both my N'zoth rogues were identical, loaded up with Deathrattles. I suspect it would be the same list even if I had gotten C'thun Rogue or Yogg Rogue.

I think you're getting confused with your opponents message - you see both.

AFAIK, the Paladin deck does not have any Old God in it. It's always Divine Shield Aggro Paladin, with the most expensive card in it being Tyrion.

[turbo164]

I queue'd Mage into Shaman. He has first turn, I see the giant popup tooltip talking about "Play as many minions as you can before Evolving them" and I'm like oh cool, Evolve Mage? And then my turn comes up, and I see a "Play as many spells as you can to power up Yogg!" message which I assume was displayed to the Shaman as well. Meh.

Won turn 12-ish, saw zero Yoggs, Servant of Yoggs, Evolves, or Masters of Evolution. Just Tunnel Troggs, Fire Elementals, Antonidus, Arcane Missiles etc.

As seen on Reddit: "This Week's Brawl Is: LADDER!"

[The Glyphstone]

I think you're getting confused with your opponents message - you see both.

AFAIK, the Paladin deck does not have any Old God in it. It's always Divine Shield Aggro Paladin, with the most expensive card in it being Tyrion.

...really. I didn't know that, I just assumed a brawl that said 'Chose a class and you'll get a flavor of an Old God added to it' would, you know, have an Old God in it.

[Landis963]

Hmm immediate thoughts on what seems odd.
Things that are included: 2x holy smite, silence, PW:G, 2x hungry dragon, 2x twilight drake.
Possibly: Museum curator, 2x holy nova AND 2x excavated evil.
Things that are missing: twilight guardian, northshire cleric, shadow word pain, 5/4 deal 3 damage guy (blackwing corruptor) , 6/6 DR deal 3 damage to all minions guy (chillmaw), maybe one or two more big dragons, 2x PW: shield, possibly rend blackhand.

I am guessing that some of these choices is because you don't have BRM, or the other cards.

It seems like you are missing the core of what makes dragon decks efficient.

I do have BRM, but I do not have Twilight Guardian or Chillmaw (the latter is why Curator is present). Also missing the big dragons from Classic, save Ysera. In addition, I am uncertain what the direct upgrades are (i.e. which cards should I replace if I only have BRM, for instance), which makes it difficult to pick which to replace first.

Also, BRM is rotating out, which means Dragon Priest is getting gutted once Karazhan releases.

[The_Jackal]

Honestly, the biggest issue with Purify is that it's a spell. Brode makes a fair point about a 1 mana card cycle with any effect will get run just for the free card draw. So the question is "Why are we putting this effect on a card with draw?".

No he didn't. The 30 card limit and fatigue are sufficient to penalize you for just stuffing your deck with 'thinner' cards, at least, assuming they can make non-aggro relevant in the meta-game. But even if they don't, a 'self-only' silence is ENTIRELY a tech card, and a bad one at that. So what if Priest gets a 5 mana 7/7 on a 2 card combo, instead of a 6 mana 7/7 on a 2 card combo? Cheap spells with draw are FINE, especially when compared with the abundant and generally better minions with draw (loot hoarder, azure drake, etc.).

[Kish]

...really. I didn't know that, I just assumed a brawl that said 'Chose a class and you'll get a flavor of an Old God added to it' would, you know, have an Old God in it.
I thought there was a good chance the paladin one (only) might have no Old God at all, but I'm disappointed that I also didn't see Ragnaros the Lightlord.

Still, this is what I thought they should have done way back when WotOG came out, instead of just standard Crossroads with a few new cards in.

[Hamste]

I had a pretty good paladin vs warrior tavern game where it went into fatigue. Somehow I managed to pull it out as the paladin despite every card except Tirion being equal to or below four mana and the warrior being C'thun with a doomcaller. A couple of note from what I saw, paladin does not have truesilver or divine favor and the warrior did not have brawl.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

No he didn't. The 30 card limit and fatigue are sufficient to penalize you for just stuffing your deck with 'thinner' cards, at least, assuming they can make non-aggro relevant in the meta-game. But even if they don't, a 'self-only' silence is ENTIRELY a tech card, and a bad one at that. So what if Priest gets a 5 mana 7/7 on a 2 card combo, instead of a 6 mana 7/7 on a 2 card combo? Cheap spells with draw are FINE, especially when compared with the abundant and generally better minions with draw (loot hoarder, azure drake, etc.).
Also, I don't think there's any problem if Priest gets another cheap spell with draw to supplement Power Word: Shield, especially since this is a spell that's anti-synergistic with a lot of Priest's existing design space.

[The Glyphstone]

Paladin doesn't have any spell damage cards at all, from what I remember. Which is odd, because I'm pretty sure I saw an Azure Drake.

[Hamste]

Paladin doesn't have any spell damage cards at all, from what I remember. Which is odd, because I'm pretty sure I saw an Azure Drake.

In the brawl they do not have any spell that does damage (or any catch up mechanic at all really). I also don't remember any drake.

[Destro_Yersul]

I do have BRM, but I do not have Twilight Guardian or Chillmaw (the latter is why Curator is present). Also missing the big dragons from Classic, save Ysera. In addition, I am uncertain what the direct upgrades are (i.e. which cards should I replace if I only have BRM, for instance), which makes it difficult to pick which to replace first.

Also, BRM is rotating out, which means Dragon Priest is getting gutted once Karazhan releases.

That's not how Standard works. Standard updates with the first new expansion of each year. BRM and Kara will both be in Standard until 2017.

[Landis963]

That's not how Standard works. Standard updates with the first new expansion of each year. BRM and Kara will both be in Standard until 2017.

Oh. I thought it was like M:tG Standard, which only has the most recent block and the one before it.

[Kish]

The current Brawl decks are recipe decks. What the popup says is what the game's description of that deck says.

The paladin deck is Shields Up. Each of the others is the recipe that features one of the Old Gods.

[Landis963]

I actually like this brawl a lot, at least in concept. Gives one a chance to see what the new set has to offer in advance of spending money on packs and arena and such. Is there a feedback form or something where we can tell Team Hearthstone how good this is?

[Kish]

You could go to the forum and make a "Thumbs up on this brawl!" post.

[Tvtyrant]

My opponent just had the saddest ending ever (in Brawl). I C'thun for 24, he lives but the board is wiped, turns my C'thun into a sheep and plays some blockers. I summon a bunch of little guys I had left in my hand, he Yoggs and it instantly kills him. I was down to about 6 hit points, and so was he. A dang fireball would have been a finisher...

[Gandariel]

As I promised Anarion, I am putting my Dragon Priest decklist up for review:


0: Forbidden Shaping x2
Silence
1: Holy Smite x2
Power Word: Glory
Twilight Whelp x2
Museum Curator x2
Wyrmrest Agent x2
3:Blackwing Technician x2
Shadow Word: Death x2
4: Hungry Dragon x2
Twilight Drake x2
5: Excavated Evil x2
Holy Nova x2
6: Cabal Shadow Priest x2
Entomb x2 (was Temple Enforcer x2)
9: Ysera
10: Deathwing, Dragonlord

Very random suggestions:
-1 Power Word: Glory, -1 Shadow Word: Death => +2 Power Word. Shield.
Always PW:S, and you don't need two SW:D if you have two Entombs.
-2 Hungry Dragon => +2 Azure Drake. Just a better card. Especially if you want to keep those Holy Smites.
-2 Excavated Evil => +2 Blackwing Corruptor; Extremely strong card, and you have Novas anyways.
-2 Cabal Shadow Priest => +2 Twilight Guardian. Extremely strong card. This card alone pretty much made Dragon decks viable.

I'd also remove Deathwing in favor of Nefarian. Poor Deathwing isn't really good sadly.
Optional:

If you want to keep Holy Smites, consider adding Vol'jin. (but you might just not have him)
A great card to add would be Chillmaw.(but you might just not have him)
I'm not a great fan of Museum Curator, but i'm apparently in the minority.

You could consider adding one random copy of Shadow Word: Pain.

[Rodin]

I'm mostly just enjoying playing unusual decks in a "safe" environment, free from running into super-agressive decks in Ranked. All of the decks have choices that were obviously made for a "fun and thematic" perspective, like giving Equality but no Consecrate to Paladin and giving Mage randomness like Servant of Yogg-Saron and Arcane Missiles. While the balance isn't equal between the decks (C'Thun Warrior has stood out as being far stronger than most of the decks thus far), it's close enough between most of them that I've been getting consistently competitive matchups.


No he didn't. The 30 card limit and fatigue are sufficient to penalize you for just stuffing your deck with 'thinner' cards, at least, assuming they can make non-aggro relevant in the meta-game. But even if they don't, a 'self-only' silence is ENTIRELY a tech card, and a bad one at that. So what if Priest gets a 5 mana 7/7 on a 2 card combo, instead of a 6 mana 7/7 on a 2 card combo? Cheap spells with draw are FINE, especially when compared with the abundant and generally better minions with draw (loot hoarder, azure drake, etc.).

I actually disagree here somewhat. In the case of Priest, yeah, it's probably fine, but that is not universally true. Warrior has consistently broken the game with OTK combos, and it's largely due to their insane ability to draw their entire deck at once. We're already seeing complaints about the latest version of Worgen nuking things all over the place, while Priest has a OTK of their own that they cannot use reliably. Nobody is complaining about Exodia Priest, while Worgen Warrior is legitimately terrifying.

It is entirely possible that if Priest got sufficient resources to rummage through their decks like Warriors do they would be the latest nerf candidate. Again, not likely, but I fully understand the concern about deck thinner cards.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

1-mana deck cycling wouldn't really give Priest any significantly additional way of card-drawing.

Warrior has Battle Rage. Priest has Circle of Healing + Northshire combos.
Warrior has Acolyte of Pain + 1-damage pings. Priest has Acolyte of Pain + cheap spells like Circle of Healing.
Warrior has Shield Block. Priest has Power Word: Shield.

Most of Priest's draw is actually highly combo-dependent, and they already have an equivalent to Warrior's "draw my entire deck" card Battle Rage. Giving them another 1-mana cycle to go with PW:S wouldn't actually give them that much more card draw.

[Techwarrior]

So, let's talk about something other than priest as far as the new expansion. Let's talk about Deadly Fork. We got on overcosted 2 drop with the deathrattle "put Deadly Poison + Hero Power into your hand."

Am I missing something that makes this good? 3/2 for 3 just doesn't seem worth a free deadly poison.

[Zevox]

So, let's talk about something other than priest as far as the new expansion. Let's talk about Deadly Fork. We got on overcosted 2 drop with the deathrattle "put Deadly Poison + Hero Power into your hand."

Am I missing something that makes this good? 3/2 for 3 just doesn't seem worth a free deadly poison.
Seems inherently good to me. That's a lot of value in one card - the body is only a bit below par for 3 mana, and even at +1 mana, Firey War Axe is good (see Hunter's Bow, Powermace, Rallying Blade, all of which aren't consistent in getting their upside but saw play anyway).

[boomwolf]

Its a decent tool for control rouge against aggro/zoo heavy meta, as it can trade for a lot of cards.
However, rouge don't quite lack such tools, and you will still be trading health away, without any new solid heals.

Overall, the fork is good to have, but isn't needed, and does not fill any lacking niche, I don't expect it will see much play.

[thirsting]

For those of us who mostly only care about arena, it's looking like pretty dang good card.

[Mando Knight]

Even as a 3/2 for 3, it's pretty good for an Arena Rogue, since it's basically another chance at Deadly Poison. Not quite an auto-pick the way it would be if it was 2 mana, though.

[Thialfi]

Very random suggestions:
-1 Power Word: Glory, -1 Shadow Word: Death => +2 Power Word. Shield.
Always PW:S, and you don't need two SW:D if you have two Entombs.
-2 Hungry Dragon => +2 Azure Drake. Just a better card. Especially if you want to keep those Holy Smites.
-2 Excavated Evil => +2 Blackwing Corruptor; Extremely strong card, and you have Novas anyways.
-2 Cabal Shadow Priest => +2 Twilight Guardian. Extremely strong card. This card alone pretty much made Dragon decks viable.

I'd also remove Deathwing in favor of Nefarian. Poor Deathwing isn't really good sadly.
Optional:

If you want to keep Holy Smites, consider adding Vol'jin. (but you might just not have him)
A great card to add would be Chillmaw.(but you might just not have him)
I'm not a great fan of Museum Curator, but i'm apparently in the minority.

You could consider adding one random copy of Shadow Word: Pain.

I keep Deathwing, Dragonlord in mine, but that's only because I have N'Zoth in there along with Chillmaw and Ysera (dragons you don't mind him putting right in play).

I can't see the Holy Smites working that well. They just don't trade that well with early game threats from shaman and warrior.

I'm still undecided on whether Netherspite Historian and Book Wyrm have a place in my deck. I'm also wondering if it's time to drop power word: shield for more early game options like Faerie Dragon.

[heretic]

Even as a 3/2 for 3, it's pretty good for an Arena Rogue, since it's basically another chance at Deadly Poison. Not quite an auto-pick the way it would be if it was 2 mana, though.

I think it's slightly worse than Goblin Auto-Barber. It feels like more of a value card than a tempo card, so it might feel a little awkward at times.

[PsyBomb]

I think it's slightly worse than Goblin Auto-Barber. It feels like more of a value card than a tempo card, so it might feel a little awkward at times.

True, but as a value card it's really good. It can go 3 for one, call it 2 for one normally. Combined with the Violet Illusionist (which I REALLY like for non-Miracle Rogue), and it is enormous value.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

For those of us who mostly only care about arena, it's looking like pretty dang good card.
Considering that Rallying Blade is held to be a good arena pick, Deadly Fork will be a great arena card.

[Zevox]

Its a decent tool for control rouge against aggro/zoo heavy meta, as it can trade for a lot of cards.
However, rouge don't quite lack such tools, and you will still be trading health away, without any new solid heals.

Overall, the fork is good to have, but isn't needed, and does not fill any lacking niche, I don't expect it will see much play.
Yeah, that is sadly true, an actual Control Rogue needs more fundamental help than just another value card, especially a weapon.


For those of us who mostly only care about arena, it's looking like pretty dang good card.
That is also very true though, it'll definitely be a fantastic arena card.

[Binks]

Played the brawl 5 times last night (grinding quests). Saw 1 N'zoth from my opponent and 1 Yogg for myself. Kind of disappointing to see so few of the Old Gods in an Old Gods brawl, would have been cooler with some kind of guarentee to draw them (turn 10 will always draw yours or something like that). Cast my first ever Yogg after 7 spells, and it proceeded to cast 6 damaging spells at me and my minions (killing everything but itself and doing 8 damage to me), then Sap my opponent's creature with a great battlecry. Yeah...that's not helping...

[PsyBomb]

Anyone know what time the actual launch of Kara is? Thought it would be up already. I have two crappy quests, so I'm waiting for it.

[Yael]

Played the brawl 5 times last night (grinding quests). Saw 1 N'zoth from my opponent and 1 Yogg for myself. Kind of disappointing to see so few of the Old Gods in an Old Gods brawl, would have been cooler with some kind of guarentee to draw them (turn 10 will always draw yours or something like that). Cast my first ever Yogg after 7 spells, and it proceeded to cast 6 damaging spells at me and my minions (killing everything but itself and doing 8 damage to me), then Sap my opponent's creature with a great battlecry. Yeah...that's not helping...

Yeah, this week's tavern brawl was just too simple. I guess this brawl would've served as a guide when the expansion launched. It gives you a WotOG-based deck and makes you play. So far I've seen:

Druid > C'Thun
Hunter > N'Zoth
Mage > Yogg-Saron
Paladin > Divine Shield
Priest > C'Thun
Rogue > N'Zoth
Shaman > Evolution
Warlock > Zoo
Warrior > C'Thun

[ChaosOS]

No announced time but past xpacs have been 1pm EST of launch day (So in an hour or so)

[Yael]

Same happened with Old Gods, so, yeah.

[Kish]

Yeah, this week's tavern brawl was just too simple. I guess this brawl would've served as a guide when the expansion launched. It gives you a WotOG-based deck and makes you play. So far I've seen:

Druid > C'Thun
Hunter > N'Zoth
Mage > Yogg-Saron
Paladin > Divine Shield
Priest > C'Thun
Rogue > N'Zoth
Shaman > Evolution
Warlock > Zoo
Warrior > C'Thun
Again--the decks used in the brawl are deck recipes. If you want to know exactly what's in each deck, just look at the Old Gods-themed deck recipe for each (or Shields Up! for paladin).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

No announced time but past xpacs have been 1pm EST of launch day (So in an hour or so)
Logged in at exactly 1:00. It's up!

[The_Jackal]

I actually disagree here somewhat. In the case of Priest, yeah, it's probably fine, but that is not universally true. Warrior has consistently broken the game with OTK combos, and it's largely due to their insane ability to draw their entire deck at once. We're already seeing complaints about the latest version of Worgen nuking things all over the place, while Priest has a OTK of their own that they cannot use reliably. Nobody is complaining about Exodia Priest, while Worgen Warrior is legitimately terrifying.

It is entirely possible that if Priest got sufficient resources to rummage through their decks like Warriors do they would be the latest nerf candidate. Again, not likely, but I fully understand the concern about deck thinner cards.

I was specifically referring to THIS card, or a card like it. Warrior cycles its deck through minion draw effects and battle rage, very little of their cycling potential is from thinner-cards like loot hoarder. Also, as far as I know, the only legendary-dominating deck which warrior had that was combo-dependent was pre-nerf patron.

You're absolutely right that designers need to pay attention to card synergys in their design space. For example, lock and load precludes adding any kind of spell/minion combo with OTK potential, but I'm really doubtful that a cheap, self-only silence ever has game-breaking potential, in any class.

[PsyBomb]

Yay, the Silverware Golem is in week one!

Boo, Malchezzar's Imp isn't.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Naturally, the class challenge for Priest is Purify. So you're using the silence deck Blizz is pushing for Priest. :smalltongue:

[Rodin]

Naturally, the class challenge for Priest is Purify. So you're using the silence deck Blizz is pushing for Priest. :smalltongue:

And amazingly enough, the deck is somehow BETTER than the one Shaman is provided for their class challenge. What the heck is this crap?

Glad to see the Secret card in the first wing, so I can start experimenting with Secret Yogg'n'Load. Probably going to wind up terrible, but it'll be fun!

[Spore]

Glad to see the Secret card in the first wing, so I can start experimenting with Secret Yogg'n'Load. Probably going to wind up terrible, but it'll be fun!

To reiterate DisguisedToast: He thinks Huntress Lock and Load into 2-3 secrets PLUS other spells in a turn (possibly discounted by Emperor) will push the viability of Yogg N Load even more. The deck is very good but the RNG of it makes it unplayable for efficient laddering or tournaments. But it is the perfect deck for tryhards like me. The kind who uses silly decks to get to high ranks.

I just love the faces of players who face netdecks 24/7 to get caught offguard by some silly deck. the last time I had this much fun was with day[9]'s Echo of Medivh Grinder Mage. People think you play Tempo in the first turns. Then they think you play a weird set of Hybrid Freeze Tempo Mage. After understanding your deck goal after 7-10 turns, it is too late and they have sacrificed too much value to keep up with a class that can turn 1 card into 4 or 6.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I personally think that Cloaked Huntress is a bad card for Yogg'n'Load, largely because Y'n'L relies on being able to King's Elekk into Thaurissan or Yogg. Thaurissan lets you pull off your combo turn more easily because of the price discount, and he lets you play Call of the Wild on Turn 7. Furthermore, Elekk filters that minion out of your deck, improving your future draws, which is really important for a combo-oriented deck. Putting Cloaked Huntress in the deck means that you're far less likely to Elekk into a card; I've had this experience when attempting to tech Acidic Swamp Ooze in the deck, and took it out because it was losing me too many jousts.

Cloaked Huntress will open up some good, new options for a tempo-efficient Hunter, though. The sheer tempo swing of a free Hunter secret is really nasty.

[The Glyphstone]

Fixed-solution puzzles annoy me, and it appears Heroic Chess is one of them. In addition to the boss getting twice as many minions as you, and a hero power to auto-kill a minion every turn, it appears your deck is stacked so that the Queen, your only good piece, is always one of the last two or three cards in the deck. Very annoying, since I can't see any way to overcome the sheer card advantage the black king gets. It tells you to position for double attacks, but that does diddly for your 1/6s when a Bishop just heals the damage every turn.

[Thialfi]

I could definitely see that. A standard midrange hunter with maybe 4 to 5 secrets. With her in there, I could see snake trap being a good one since she's going to draw immediate fire. Add in kindly grandmother and it won't be so hard to keep beasts on the board for turn 4. A couple eaglehorn bows and you are starting to get to living to turn 8 for call of the wild. I don't know if any of the secrets that you want to play are sticky enough to play Avian Watcher.

It sounds like you don't even think arcane giant would be a good idea for yogg and load either.

[otakuryoga]

almost beat the guy that makes 1/1 copies on heroic
if i had just drawn my 2nd corrupted healbot....

hmmm, may have to try paladin instead of mage on that one

[Landis963]

Fixed-solution puzzles annoy me, and it appears Heroic Chess is one of them. In addition to the boss getting twice as many minions as you, and a hero power to auto-kill a minion every turn, it appears your deck is stacked so that the Queen, your only good piece, is always one of the last two or three cards in the deck. Very annoying, since I can't see any way to overcome the sheer card advantage the black king gets. It tells you to position for double attacks, but that does diddly for your 1/6s when a Bishop just heals the damage every turn.

I'm trying to figure that out as well.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It sounds like you don't even think arcane giant would be a good idea for yogg and load either.
It's not bad, IMO! Being able to Elekk into a cheap 8/8 (and since it'll use the printed cost of the card for the joust, you'll pretty much auto-win the joust) is pretty good. Personally, though, I don't know that it's good enough to include in the deck because you can only fit so many cards in there...

[Kish]

And amazingly enough, the deck is somehow BETTER than the one Shaman is provided for their class challenge. What the heck is this crap?
Yeah, it's like being back in late Naxxramas. I thought they'd learned better after that.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Also, I loved the prologue fight. Made me wish that there was an actual minion with the text "when you cast a spell this turn, put it into your deck". Honestly, Medivh's deck is what I wish Hearthstone decks could be more like.

[OrcusMcP]

I may be in the minority, but I really enjoyed the Chess fight. It was a very dynamic and it didn't take me long to sort out a decent strategy.

[Rodin]

almost beat the guy that makes 1/1 copies on heroic
if i had just drawn my 2nd corrupted healbot....

hmmm, may have to try paladin instead of mage on that one

Zoolock is exceptional in that fight, or at least it was in the non-Heroic version. Summon two Darkshire Councilmen on turn 3, into a stream of duplicating 1/1 minions the next turn...

I hit him for 20+ on turn 4, is what I'm saying. Oh yeah, and the Councilman buffs himself on coming into play, since both he and his 1/1 arrive simultaneously.


I may be in the minority, but I really enjoyed the Chess fight. It was a very dynamic and it didn't take me long to sort out a decent strategy.

It's a lot of fun on Normal, but I can see how the Heroic could be frustrating. The fact that you can outplay the opponent and then lose due to them having a bigger deck than you is pretty tilting.

[Landis963]

I may be in the minority, but I really enjoyed the Chess fight. It was a very dynamic and it didn't take me long to sort out a decent strategy.

Normal Chess is a blast. Heroic Chess is maddening.

[PsyBomb]

Chess isn't all that tough, just remember a couple of simple rules. I only lost it once, then won four times in a row for fun. The following only applies to Regular, I haven't played Heroic yet.

1) Your best opening move, just like in real chess, is to get your pawns into position ASAP. Pawn into Pawn-Pawn (both to the right of the first) will keep you ahead of tempo all game. Mulligan HARD for this, if it costs more than 1 then X it out.

2) The Black King will only use Cheat as a last resort, if he can't play other cards, so it's easy to see coming. Again, sacrifice pawns or other expendables to get in its way. Similarly, you want your value pieces (Queen and Rook) to go center or right if at all possible (won't always be, due to needing to kill something to the left Right Now).

3) Bishops are probably your most important pieces. Get them in position to heal the power pieces to keep them standing. Similarly, a Knight can strike any piece from any position, so place them anywhere needed to position your own and attack with them to position your enemies as you want.

4) Finally, your hero power as the White King is RIDICULOUSLY good, just not in the second or third turn. You should probably be hitting it at least 3-5 times on a winning game.

I'll be honest, I want to see this matchup as the next Tavern Brawl (with the Black King getting White's hero power, to be fair), because I find it nearly as enjoyable as full-on Hearthstone. If ever they implement a "Brawl Favorites" to let you issue challenges to a specific brawl, I might play it more than ladder.

[Kish]

Just like in Raid-Karazhan, the chess event is fun and easy.

Apparently not so much on Heroic.

[Destro_Yersul]

Also, I loved the prologue fight. Made me wish that there was an actual minion with the text "when you cast a spell this turn, put it into your deck". Honestly, Medivh's deck is what I wish Hearthstone decks could be more like.

I'm calling it right now, that's going to come back as a Tavern Brawl at some point.

EDIT: Also, I'm trying to see how far I can get in Normal just playing Yogg'n'Load. So far it's beat the Silverware golem. Beat the mirror. Hilariously, the mirror's response to emotes is "No, YOU!" for everything except "well played"

[The Glyphstone]

Beat Heroic Silverware Golem with Taunt/Whirlwind Warrior. Had a KT ready to try and glitch, but I never needed him suprisingly.

Beat Heroic Mirror with, after about a dozen iterations, a spell-heavy Mage. Was packing Reno, but again the win-run I didn't even get to play him.

[Mando Knight]

Beat Heroic Silverware Golem with Taunt/Whirlwind Warrior. Had a KT ready to try and glitch, but I never needed him suprisingly.

There are reports that the KT glitch no longer works.

[The Glyphstone]

There are reports that the KT glitch no longer works.

Good thing I didn't try to rely on it, then.

[boomwolf]

Also, I loved the prologue fight. Made me wish that there was an actual minion with the text "when you cast a spell this turn, put it into your deck". Honestly, Medivh's deck is what I wish Hearthstone decks could be more like.

Hell yea.
Haven't seen much of the adventure so far, but honestly the cards in the "unique decks" we've seen (prologe deck and chess deck) are just do much more interesting than the regular cards released.

Overpowered as feth, but making a toned down version of them should be possible.

[Kish]

The queen is not at a fixed place in the Heroic Chess deck. I was quite annoyed that I got her (after the mulligan) in my starting hand, in fact, but then I won the first time anyway. Med--er, the Black King played weirdly worse on Heroic, throwing his knight at a pawn instead of having it smash my bishop.

[Seerow]

Okay so the only adventure I've done is BRM...

is it my imagination or is this adventure way shorter (fewer bosses per wing) with way better rewards?

Like I remember getting 1 card reward per boss, with a bonus card for wing complete. Here you get 2 before even unlocking the adventure, then 2 per boss with 3 rewarded for wing complete? Not going to complain about extra easy to obtain cards, but it feels weird after BRM.

[Kish]

They shortened them at League of Explorers, compressing the same rewards into the shorter adventures to stop players from complaining.

[Seerow]

They shortened them at League of Explorers, compressing the same rewards into the shorter adventures to stop players from complaining.

Oh... for some reason I thought league came out before blackrock, that was my whole reason for putting off buying league (assuming that it would cycle out first).


Just googled it, apparently they will cycle out simultaneously. Oh well, at this point I'm not sure it's worth buying to have cards that will last like 4 months.

[Zevox]

I'm calling it right now, that's going to come back as a Tavern Brawl at some point.
I sure hope so, that was a fun fight.

Ditto for a Chess Brawl, with the Black King's hero power appropriately changed. That would be great.

Random thing I noticed: this week's set of cards gave us one for every class. Guess they're trying to balance that out now, which is nice. Though unfortunately, it means that potential new deck archetypes that want multiple new class cards, like Beast Druid and Discard Warlock, still need to wait a few weeks to get going, despite getting one of their new cards now.

...what can we do with this week's cards anyway? Besides make Hunter more annoying with an OP card, I mean.

Druid and Warlock can't do much with Raven and Silverware Golem without future cards.
Mage's new Firelands Portal is solid, but doesn't really make a new deck on its own. I guess we can stick it into Reno Mage (or Yogg, if you actually use that).
Ivory Knight can go in N'zothadin or other late-game Paladins I suppose. Worth trying.
Priest of the Feast... meh.
Deadly Fork, I guess a N'Zoth or just Deathrattle Rogue can use it, but I'm still not sure that's a good enough deck.
Maelstrom Portal is probably just bad.
Protect the King is meh. Guess some people will try and use it to make Bolster decks work, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that one.
Aaaaand our neutrals for the week kind of suck.

...eh, guess I play a little Reno Mage, N'zothadin, and continue with Deathrattle Rogue experiments.

[Togath]

Kind of odd question...
Does anyone have the full art for the "cup" card from the silverware golem boss?
She's SO cute!

[Destro_Yersul]

This is the largest version I could find: https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/hearthstone.gamepedia.com/c/c0/Cup%2842226%29.png

In other news, I beat the Heroic chess fight. I think that if the Black King opens with pawn coin pawn into pawn pawn, you just lose. Ditto if he gets two black bishops healing each other, and you can't kill them.

Also he gets a full size deck, and your deck consists of the pieces found in an actual chess set: 8 pawns, 2 rooks, 2 knights, 2 bishops, and a queen. You MIGHT get an extra pawn to replace the king, because I didn't check if the deck starts with 15 or 16 cards.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Thinkin' of trying out an aggressive Rogue deck using Arcane Anomaly, because A: it's a combo trigger and B: if there's one thing Rogue is good at, it's casting a bunch of cheap spells.

[Rodin]

Casino Mage in Wild is pretty fun. At least, when it isn't Fireballing me in my own face and giving me 2/2 3-drops off of Faceless Summoner. Firelands Portal is a pretty impressive spell too - good tempo swing and the minions are pretty high quality in general.

One thing I haven't understood is why people bring Standard decks into Wild. Okay, bring a teched out version with cards not available in Ranked. But there are just a bunch that look like they're purely Standard decks. Don't really get why they're hanging out in Wild instead of Ranked.

[Zevox]

In other news, I beat the Heroic chess fight. I think that if the Black King opens with pawn coin pawn into pawn pawn, you just lose. Ditto if he gets two black bishops healing each other, and you can't kill them.

Also he gets a full size deck, and your deck consists of the pieces found in an actual chess set: 8 pawns, 2 rooks, 2 knights, 2 bishops, and a queen. You MIGHT get an extra pawn to replace the king, because I didn't check if the deck starts with 15 or 16 cards.
I think you're right about those being lose conditions in Heroic Chess. Also, a big thing to try and hit: heal your Knights with your Bishops. They become godlike removal if you can keep them alive. Try not to waste them on the Queen, either - take her down with two turns of Rook + Pawn attacks if possible.

I have to say, the Heroic Prologue and Heroic Chess were quite fun, which is a nice change from how Heroic Mode usually is. Can't say I expect the same of the other fights this week, but I hope we have more fights in future wings that become fun even on heroic like those two.

[PsyBomb]

So, I'm debating dusting a Golden Shadowcaster I have. It's for four rares, to put together a Discard Warlock list. Note that I'm not playing Rogue unless compelled at the moment.

[Kish]

I always dust my golden cards, unless what I'd use the dust for would be to immediately craft a non-golden version (in which case it wouldn't make any sense).

[GAAD]

So I tried out Ivory Knight Nzoth Pally.

Can confirm, Ivory Knight is a good card for a greedy deck. Can also confirm, Nzoth Paladin is not very good right now.

[Rodin]

I think you're right about those being lose conditions in Heroic Chess. Also, a big thing to try and hit: heal your Knights with your Bishops. They become godlike removal if you can keep them alive. Try not to waste them on the Queen, either - take her down with two turns of Rook + Pawn attacks if possible.

I have to say, the Heroic Prologue and Heroic Chess were quite fun, which is a nice change from how Heroic Mode usually is. Can't say I expect the same of the other fights this week, but I hope we have more fights in future wings that become fun even on heroic like those two.

The Mirror fight on Heroic is really fun because of the bizarre strategies it encourages, like playing Zombie Chow and Corrupted Healbot in order to gift them 1/1 creatures that heal you upon death, and playing Doomsayer + Brewmaster to gift your opponent a 1/1 Doomsayer that blows up at the start of their turn.

The Silverware Golem looks scary as hell though. 10/1 Charging Plates, anyone?

[Togath]

So Arcanosmith...
What do people think of it? From what I've seen so far, it looks like a pretty potent card, at least in the right decks(and it combos well with addled grizzly, nature's power[or whatever the "give your guys +1" card is called], and the treant deathrattle spell).

[Nerocite]

The first 2 bosses both make 1/1s, so Patron warrior was pretty effective. For Chess, I found that not playing a minion was sometimes the best play.

[Rodin]

The streamers thus far don't seem thrilled with it. The big question with Arcanosmith is why you would use it over Sen'jin Shieldmasta, and most of the time the answer is...you don't. It turns out that a 0/5 Taunt just isn't very good, and in the niche cases where you can combo it with something the effect is also not that impressive - a 1/6 Taunt isn't really any more impressive than a 0/5 Taunt, which means you have to hit it with two boosters before it really becomes good.

Not having the damage attached to the Taunty portion is just a really big deal. I don't think it's a terrible card - I can certainly see it showing up regularly in Arena play. In Ranked play I just think it's out of luck when competing for the competitive 4-slot.

[Zevox]

The streamers thus far don't seem thrilled with it. The big question with Arcanosmith is why you would use it over Sen'jin Shieldmasta, and most of the time the answer is...you don't. It turns out that a 0/5 Taunt just isn't very good, and in the niche cases where you can combo it with something the effect is also not that impressive - a 1/6 Taunt isn't really any more impressive than a 0/5 Taunt, which means you have to hit it with two boosters before it really becomes good.

Not having the damage attached to the Taunty portion is just a really big deal. I don't think it's a terrible card - I can certainly see it showing up regularly in Arena play. In Ranked play I just think it's out of luck when competing for the competitive 4-slot.
Yeah, I have to say, I do think it's a terrible card. It's a vanilla 2-cost and a bad 1-cost (Shieldbearer at +1 health, which would still not be good) stapled together and priced at 4. That's pretty sad, and obviously far worse than Sen'jin Shieldmasta for the same mana cost. It's one of the adventure's "throw it in the dustbin" cards, to be sure.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Chess isn't all that tough, just remember a couple of simple rules. I only lost it once, then won four times in a row for fun. The following only applies to Regular, [b]I haven't played Heroic yet.

4) Finally, your hero power as the White King is RIDICULOUSLY good, just not in the second or third turn. You should probably be hitting it at least 3-5 times on a winning game.


Yeah, come back once you've done heroic mode chess. The difference is night and day. Took like, 4 tries to win.


The queen is not at a fixed place in the Heroic Chess deck. I was quite annoyed that I got her (after the mulligan) in my starting hand, in fact, but then I won the first time anyway. Med--er, the Black King played weirdly worse on Heroic, throwing his knight at a pawn instead of having it smash my bishop.

The queen was at the literal bottom of my deck the first game. I didn't win that run.

[boomwolf]

Yeah, I have to say, I do think it's a terrible card. It's a vanilla 2-cost and a bad 1-cost (Shieldbearer at +1 health, which would still not be good) stapled together and priced at 4. That's pretty sad, and obviously far worse than Sen'jin Shieldmasta for the same mana cost. It's one of the adventure's "throw it in the dustbin" cards, to be sure.


I gotta disagree.
You just need to stop looking at it like Sen'jin, and start looking at it like healbot.
4 mana for a 3/2 body and 5 "armor". Possibly more if the opponent has to overkill the shield.

I won't claim it's top tier, but it has potential.

[Anarion]

Okay, done with heroic mode. Chess took me a lot of tries. Horrible draws and it's really unforgiving. The other two I used a couple fatigue decks. They draw so much.


I gotta disagree.
You just need to stop looking at it like Sen'jin, and start looking at it like healbot.
4 mana for a 3/2 body and 5 "armor". Possibly more if the opponent has to overkill the shield.

I won't claim it's top tier, but it has potential.

It's not like healbot though. People run actual heal cards because they negate fireball, not just as a blocker. The 3/2 does nothing if you're sitting at low life against anyone with a nuke or a lucky Yog. Where it might, possibly, be good is in decks that buff their minions. Druid primarily, maybe paladin or priest. The fact that it creates two bodies and slows the other person down is valuable.

[Togath]

That's basically my view. It's not a senjin, it's an attack negator plus a 3/2(and can help trigger "[x] minions in play" effects", like Reliquary Seeker or Sea Giant)
edit: Druid is the primary case I've seen for it. They have a lot of ways to make it stand out more.

[Destro_Yersul]

Heroic Mirror:

Won with mage, running pretty much all the AOE and Zombie Chow and Healbot and Doomsayer. Forcing him to Duplicate Zombie Chow is really good. Polymorphing Rhonin is really good. It was touch and go for a bit, but I finally managed to win. Tough fight, for sure. I'm just lucky that I was able to keep his board clear until he ran out of cards and burn.

Heroic Silverware:

Easier than the mirror, using Mage again. Managed to keep his board clear, and he never got huge charging plates. Acolyte of Pain proved quite useful for keeping my hand filling, and Bloodmage Thalnos/Azure Drake did work with Arcane Explosion on the handful of occassions that the plates' health got buffed. He ended with three cards in hand, and none in the deck. I'm assuming the in-hand cards involved drawing, because he never played them.

[Joran]

Yeah, come back once you've done heroic mode chess. The difference is night and day. Took like, 4 tries to win.


I kept thinking the hero power would swap to the right rather than the left. It's really late and I have no idea how I won the last one other than I had a Queen and a Rook who basically one shot the opposing Queen and I had a Bishop healing a Rook and the Queen for a couple turns so they could do work.

[gomipile]

I'm liking Pantry Spider in midrange hunter. It's not amazing, but it's nice for setting up beast synergy.

[Zevox]

Yeah, come back once you've done heroic mode chess. The difference is night and day. Took like, 4 tries to win.
I'd say that statement is still pretty true of Heroic Mode Chess. It's a lot harder, yes, but because you're working with actually limited resources against someone with far more resources, and as such need to play well and have your opponent not get the perfect start. Positioning is key, and your hero power does that, letting you maximize the usefulness of all of your pieces. There were turns in my successful run where I did nothing but hero power a lot to set things up just right.

(Will get back to the Arcanosmith discussion later, when I'm on a PC instead of a phone.)

[Nerocite]

That's basically my view. It's not a senjin, it's an attack negator plus a 3/2(and can help trigger "[x] minions in play" effects", like Reliquary Seeker or Sea Giant)
edit: Druid is the primary case I've seen for it. They have a lot of ways to make it stand out more.

Druid has good 4 drops for tokens like Mire Keeper and Violet Teacher, I'm not sure if they want another one.

Arcanosmith might be good in Evolve decks, because the wall it summons cost 2 mana.

[PsyBomb]

Anyone else running into more Priests since Kara? In particular, I hit a couple of very odd C'thun variant featuring a LOADED 4-slot (Priest of the Feast, Disciple of C'thun, and Hooded Acolyte), heavy removal (including Disciple of C'thun), and a few annoying mid-heavy drops. Once it gets to those 4-drops, the deck is very difficult to get off the board unless you have an overwhelming advantage, and they have spell/cycle support plus some decent early minions for sparring early plus a bunch of life gain making them hard to blitz down. Roughly the decklist I saw...

2x Circle of Healing

2x Northshire Cleric
2x Power Word: Shield

2x Beckoner of Evil
2x Wild Pyromancer
2x Loot Hoarder
2x Shadow Word: Pain

2x Disciple of C'thun
1x Shadow Word: Death

2x Priest of the Feast
2x Hooded Acolyte
2x C'thun's Chosen

2x Excavated Evil

1x Cairne
1x Sylvanas
2x Entomb

1x C'thun


I might be a bit off on the list, especially since that's merging memories of two different games against different people, but it seems to be working for them. At least one other list was running a N'zoth hybrid as well, for example, but that was one I watched on stream. At least one other was messing with Inner Fire shenanigans, leading to 12/12s on turn 6 fairly reliably. I haven't made the deck to test it myself, mostly because I lack the good 6-drops, but I might soon.

[Yael]

Alright guys, as we're talking adventures here, I wanted to finish off Heroic adventures. Naxxramas was last week, and League of Explorers the week before. This time is Blackrock turn (Karazhan on the run).

I am stuck in the 3rd wing, against Drakkisath, and Blackhand. Any tips on these two? :smallfrown:

[Joran]

I'm liking Pantry Spider in midrange hunter. It's not amazing, but it's nice for setting up beast synergy.

It's 2/6 in stats, but spread over two bodies. I've been running two Carrion Grubs and 2 Animal Companions, so I'm unsure whether the spiders are better, since a Houndmaster buffs one up to a Sen'jin, but 1/3s trade awkwardly into 3/2s and 2/2s.

I don't think I can run more than 4 3 drops to maintain the ability to curve out into the later game.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Now, I've been thinking about Purify's Design recently, and Ben Brode explaining himself, about how self-silence priest mechanics can be really fun to play with. However, a 1 mana draw a card was being used just for that cycle, so it had to be upped to 2 mana. Which is extremely overcosted (there's no reason to run Purify over the Silence already in the priest library).

My question is, why not just make it a minion? 1 mana 1/1 or 1/2, (or even a 1 mana 1/3 if you wanna push the envelope), Battlecry, silence a friendly minion. You can keep it at the 1 mana price tag that way, and not have the 'risk of giving priest combo ways to burn through their deck'. My personal guess is that the dev team didn't devote especially much thought to it, and/or were stuck in the headspace of "this is a spell" so much that they didn't even consider making it a 'not' spell.

Edit: Or even something crazy-silly like 1 Mana, 3/3, battle cry: silence another friendly minion. This minion cannot attack.

[Kish]

Alright guys, as we're talking adventures here, I wanted to finish off Heroic adventures. Naxxramas was last week, and League of Explorers the week before. This time is Blackrock turn (Karazhan on the run).

I am stuck in the 3rd wing, against Drakkisath, and Blackhand. Any tips on these two? :smallfrown:
If it's true that they finally programmed the AI to deal with Kel'Thuzad, that's unfortunate because it means my solution to Drakkisath would no longer work.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

If viewing Arcanosmith as healing, it's honestly not terribly good even then. It's a 4-mana 3/2 with Battlecry: Restore 5 health. For 1 mana more than Earthen Ring Farseer, you lose 1 health and gain 2 more healing.

[BRC]

If viewing Arcanosmith as healing, it's honestly not terribly good even then. It's a 4-mana 3/2 with Battlecry: Restore 5 health. For 1 mana more than Earthen Ring Farseer, you lose 1 health and gain 2 more healing.

Eh, that doesn't quite work out.

Let's say you're facing down two 4-power minions. If they're both needed to kill the 0/5, you've prevented yourself from taking 8 damage.


thinking about it more generally, it's 10 stats for 4 mana. It's not uncommon for your opponent to only be able to put out 5 or so damage on turn 4-5.

Compared to a Senjin Shieldmasta, it protects your board, but doesn't really hurt your opponent's board (since they can freely attack the 0/5), however when they clear it, you're left with a 3/2.

So, it's better than Senjin if you value untapping with a minion on turn 5 more than you care about hurting your opponent's board, or if you've got something (Knife Juggler, Darkshire Councilman, Evolve) That cares about having more minions out.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Eh, that doesn't quite work out.

Let's say you're facing down two 4-power minions. If they're both needed to kill the 0/5, you've prevented yourself from taking 8 damage.
That's a very specific setup, though. If one of those minions has 1 attack (or your opponent has a ping, which is not uncommon), it goes back down to 5 damage. If one of the minions has 2 attack, that prevents 6 damage. It only matches up to a Healbot's healing if both minions have 4 power or greater, and then you have to have a way on the following turn to deal 3-5 damage to each minion to remove them.

And if you're using it for armor, why not just have Doomsayer instead? It absorbs 7+ health and threatens to wipe your opponent's board and prevent even more damage.

[BRC]

That's a very specific setup, though. If one of those minions has 1 attack (or your opponent has a ping, which is not uncommon), it goes back down to 5 damage. If one of the minions has 2 attack, that prevents 6 damage. It only matches up to a Healbot's healing if both minions have 4 power or greater, and then you have to have a way on the following turn to deal 3-5 damage to each minion to remove them.

And if you're using it for armor, why not just have Doomsayer instead? It absorbs 7+ health and threatens to wipe your opponent's board and prevent even more damage.

And Doomsayer is substantially cheaper as well.

The big advantage of the 0/5 is not to protect your healty, but to protect other minions on the board.

Which Senjin Shieldmasta does better.

[Kish]

A plague on all the arguments for viewing Arcanosmith as anything other than itself.

[BRC]

A plague on all the arguments for viewing Arcanosmith as anything other than itself.

What do you mean by that?

Is it wrong to compare Arcanosmith to healing/armor (I can agree here, since a taunt minion protects other minions, while healing only prevents/reverses damage to your hero)
Wrong to compare it to other, similar cards (Like Senjin)

[Rodin]

The one place I've seen where Arcanosmith might be good is in Evolve Shaman. There, it's putting a 4-mana card along with a 2-mana card, which allows you to Evolve them up into a 5-mana and 3-mana. Pantry Spider fills much the same role, putting out two 3-drops that can be Evolved into double 4-drop. It lessens the need for getting a strong board since you can play just a couple minions and flood the board with cards that Evolve into decent sized minions.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That's a good point; Barnes will also lend Evolve Shaman some really nice tools. I usually try to evolve a board with 4+ minions, and these minions make it much easier to hit that point. That said, I feel that these minions will also have to be decent when not used with Evolve or Master of Evolution, since you don't always draw them.

[Zevox]

I gotta disagree.
You just need to stop looking at it like Sen'jin, and start looking at it like healbot.
4 mana for a 3/2 body and 5 "armor". Possibly more if the opponent has to overkill the shield.

I won't claim it's top tier, but it has potential.

It's not like healbot though. People run actual heal cards because they negate fireball, not just as a blocker. The 3/2 does nothing if you're sitting at low life against anyone with a nuke or a lucky Yog. Where it might, possibly, be good is in decks that buff their minions. Druid primarily, maybe paladin or priest. The fact that it creates two bodies and slows the other person down is valuable.
Anarion has the right of it. Arcanosmith is not healing, just as taunt in general is not healing. It can be functionally as good as healing in certain circumstances - mainly when fighting against aggro decks which lack ways through it besides throwing minions at it - but it isn't in others. Spells bypass it, AoE catches it, silence removes it entirely. You can only directly compare the two in fairly narrow circumstances, so the comparison is not helpful.


If viewing Arcanosmith as healing, it's honestly not terribly good even then. It's a 4-mana 3/2 with Battlecry: Restore 5 health. For 1 mana more than Earthen Ring Farseer, you lose 1 health and gain 2 more healing.
That's true, too. Or, similarly, compared to Healbot, for your 1 mana savings you lose 1 health and 3 "healing" - not a great deal. Or heck, compare it to Refreshment Vendor - same price, +3 health, only 1 less "healing," and the only downside is healing your opponent for 4. Funny how every comparison, however applicable, doesn't leave Arcanosmith looking that good, ain't it?


A plague on all the arguments for viewing Arcanosmith as anything other than itself.
Arcanosmith isn't so different from existing cards that it can't be compared to them, and that's how new cards can most easily be evaluated. Heck, comparing and contrasting to similar things is a useful method for understanding something new in most any context.

Edit: I'd add that the problem with the notion of it being good for Evolve Shaman is the same as the notion of Purify being good with Eerie Statue: without getting your combo, you're stuck with a bad card in hand. Granted, it's not as bad as that combo, Since Evolve/Master of Evolution aren't useless cards on their own and Arcanosmith is not as bad as either piece of that combo, but I'd be willing to bet it's more than weak enough that it isn't worth running just to try and hit those combos. Ditto with Druid, which is worse off than Shaman since Soul of the Forest and Addled Grizzly are not good cards to begin with - and Addled Grizzly doesn't even result in a particularly strong combo here, either.

[Destro_Yersul]

Alright guys, as we're talking adventures here, I wanted to finish off Heroic adventures. Naxxramas was last week, and League of Explorers the week before. This time is Blackrock turn (Karazhan on the run).

I am stuck in the 3rd wing, against Drakkisath, and Blackhand. Any tips on these two? :smallfrown:

Lessee, Drakkisath: I used Paladin with a bunch of high cost value stuff. Tirion, Sylvanas, etc. I also ran MCT to counter his main advantage. I don't think the Kel and Taunt bug works, but running Kel is still pretty good. He does run Twisting Nether, so be careful of that. Lay on Hands is good.

Rend: I used Mage. This one is actually a bit worse now, because of the nerf to BGH. Bring MCT along here, too, and as much board wipe as you can find.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Arcanosmith should be worth trying out in Evolve Shaman at least, because apparently the taunt token is 2 mana, so that's a huge amount of value you're getting. Plus, if you don't have the capacity to evolve that turn, it's often capable of protecting your other smaller minions before you evolve them.

[Rodin]

Arcanosmith should be worth trying out in Evolve Shaman at least, because apparently the taunt token is 2 mana, so that's a huge amount of value you're getting. Plus, if you don't have the capacity to evolve that turn, it's often capable of protecting your other smaller minions before you evolve them.

The reason I mentioned it is that I was watching Savjz play it at high legend quite successfully. Between Evolve, Master of Evolution, Flametongue Totem, Abusive Sergeant, or even Bloodlust there are a lot of ways that both the Arcanosmith and the Pantry Spiders can become legitimate threats.

Whether or not it's good enough to hang around remains to be seen, of course, but I'd say it's a fair bet that with the addition of Barnes later this expansion Evolve Shaman will at least be a thing that gets run out in Ranked periodically.

[PsyBomb]

The reason I mentioned it is that I was watching Savjz play it at high legend quite successfully. Between Evolve, Master of Evolution, Flametongue Totem, Abusive Sergeant, or even Bloodlust there are a lot of ways that both the Arcanosmith and the Pantry Spiders can become legitimate threats.

Whether or not it's good enough to hang around remains to be seen, of course, but I'd say it's a fair bet that with the addition of Barnes later this expansion Evolve Shaman will at least be a thing that gets run out in Ranked periodically.

Yeah, the hard part was always flooding with minions that cost 2 or more, so that you don't risk nuking your newly-empowered field with an accidental Doomsayer.

[TechnoWarforged]

Took me forever, but I finally beat Mirror on Heroic:

Mill Mage:

Coldlight Oracle
Iceblock
Sheep
Arcane explosion
Unstable Ghoul
Doomsayer
Zombie Chow
Corrupted Healbot
Eater of Secrets
Duplicate
Mad Scientist

Basically Use zombie chow and corrupted healbot to gain health. Bonus if you get chow to duplicate from Mirror's own Duplicate. Corrupted Healbot is a big body as well and he can stay on the board.

Unstable/Doomsayer/Abomination: those are your board clears. I'll try to trigger doomsayer with duplicate due to how powerful it is. Guarantee board clear on Mirror's turn as long as he got space on his board. Make sure you save a doomsayer for Antondias.

Arcane explosion... useful for a few opening turns, bait out counterspell later.

Eater of Secrets/Mad Scientist: Eater will stop mirror's own duplicate and mirror image. Mad scientist will make him waste duplicate. Best effect is when you play Mad scientist, ping the mirror that came out, and then play Eater of Secrets.

Sheep: Save it for Rhonin. You'll let him have three magic missile either way when Rhonin hits the board but it's safe as long as your health total is high and there's no spell bonus stuff and/or flamewaker on the board.

Iceblock: in case you really need it

Coldlight oracle: funny thing is when I win, i haven't drawn a single Coldlight Oracle. Mirror mill himself very fast when sorceress + looming horror/Arcane intellect so I'll say the key is to keep your health total high and the board clear.

[Thomas Cardew]

So I've got enough gold to unlock an adventure wing. Which would you guys say between The Parlor, Uldaman, or Blackwing Lair next? I'm tempted to do the parlor just based on the fact that the Medvih intro deck was some of the most fun I've had playing this game. Everything about it was right for me.

[Landis963]

Another thing one could do, sadly this wasn't so much my idea as a YouTube commenter I saw, is put Majordomo in Shadow Priest, then kill Ragnaros!Mirror when he emerges. (Majordomo+Holy Smite equals facing off against 8-health Rag as opposed to 45 health Mirror)

EDIT:
So I've got enough gold to unlock an adventure wing. Which would you guys say between The Parlor, Uldaman, or Blackwing Lair next? I'm tempted to do the parlor just based on the fact that the Medvih intro deck was some of the most fun I've had playing this game. Everything about it was right for me.

Parlor gets you one card for each class that didn't get one from Malchezaar: Rogue gets the fork (3 mana 3/2, DR: give your hero a 3/2 weapon), Warlock gets the golem itself (3 mana 3/3, if you discard him, summon him), Hunter gets the cloaked huntress (3 mana 3/4, secrets cost 0), Paladin gets the knight (6 mana 4/4, Discover a spell and +mana cost health to hero), Warrior gets the pawns (3 mana, 1/1 taunt for each enemy minion), Shaman gets their portal, and Priest gets the Priest of the Feast (3/6, cast a spell -> +3 health to hero). In addition, you also get Moroes (3 mana 1/1 legend with stealth and EOT: summon a 1/1 Steward), Arcane Anomaly (1 mana 2/1, cast a spell -> +1 toughness), Pantry Spider (2 1/3 Spiders for 3), and Arcanosmith (4 mana for a 3/2 and a 0/5 taunt)

Uldaman gets you something for everything except Hunter: Shaman gets Tunnel Trogg (1 mana 1/3, overload->+1 attack for each locked mana crystal), Mage gets Ethereal Conjuror (5 mana 6/3, Discover a Spell), Druid gets Mounted Raptor (3 mana 3/2 DR: summon a random 1-drop), Rogue gets Unearthed Raptor (3 mana 3/4, copy a friendly DR), Warrior gets Fierce Monkey (3 mana 3/4 taunt), Warlock gets Reliquary Seeker (1 mana 1/1, if you have 6 other minions on cast, gain +4/+4), Paladin gets Keeper of Uldaman (4 mana 3/4, set something to 3/3), and Priest gets Excavated Evil (5 mana spell, 3 damage to everything, shuffle into opponent's deck). In addition, you get Tomb Spider (4 mana 3/3, Discover a beast) and Brann himself (3 mana 2/4 legend, battlecries go off twice).

Blackwing Lair gets you something for Warrior (Revenge: 2 mana spell, deal one to everything unless you're at 12 or below, in which case, 3 to everything), Mage (Flamewaker: 3 mana 2/4, cast a spell->2 damage spread randomly across enemies), Shaman (Fireguard Destroyer: 4 mana 3/6 Overload 1, gain 1-4 attack on cast), Warlock (Demonwrath: 3 mana spell, 2 to everything except Demons), and Rogue (Dark Iron Skulker: 5 mana 4/3, deal 2 damaged to all undamaged enemy minions). In addition, you get Hungry Dragon (4 mana 5/6, summon a random 1-drop for your opponent) and Chromaggus (8 mana 6/8 legend, draw a card-> get another copy).

It really depends on what decks you're running/hoping to run.

EDIT EDIT: In terms of funness of wing, I'd say Karazhan is the most fun of the 3.

[Kish]

Does the Ragnaros transformation get rid of armor?

[Togath]

Now I kinda want to test it and see... With a little luck, a druid could potentially nuke the mirror to 8 health on turn 5.
And If armor goes away too... :3

[Kish]

Confirmed: The armor goes away. I used a mage deck with all spells except Yogg-Saron (just in case) and Executus. The Mirror's Mirror Entity sat there for most of the match until I played Executus, then the mirror largely ignored my Executus to go for my face; on my next turn, I Fireblasted its 1/1 Executus and it turned into an 8-health no-armor Ragnaros, who my Executus promptly smashed.

[Landis963]

Sadness of sadnesses, I dusted my 'Domo to get a Hogger for the Silverware golem fight (Hearthstone!Trump had a Bolster deck he was trying out that beat it second try). So now I need to find another way (I hear tell of fatigue working alright?) or save up dust to re-craft Majordomo.

[Togath]

For silverware, no-legends patron seems to crush it.

[Landis963]

For silverware, no-legends patron seems to crush it.

I already beat it. And I used all my dust and all my expendable legendaries to make the Hogger, so I need to start working my way back up to 1600 dust. Maybe I'll get lucky during the next few brawl packs?

[Togath]

Hopefully. ^_^;
Also, how does this deck look for for the mirror fight?
http://image.prntscr.com/image/53de5381b993469cb7aab25609adfc44.png
Flamecallers kill their clones, interestingly, and the majordomo is meant as a finisher... But I seem to have terrible terrible luck with draws so far:smallredface:

[TechnoWarforged]

Hopefully. ^_^;
Also, how does this deck look for for the mirror fight?
http://image.prntscr.com/image/53de5381b993469cb7aab25609adfc44.png
Flamecallers kill their clones, interestingly, and the majordomo is meant as a finisher... But I seem to have terrible terrible luck with draws so far:smallredface:


I've thought about Majodomo as a fun debuff. The problem is that you'll always go first so you'll never have the coin which means you can't majodomo and then ping his. You'll need a board to kill the mirror domo and deal 8 damage afterwards for the lethal... sounds very conditional.

I use a similar deck with doomsayer/youthful brewmaster/coldlight oracle. That also means you don't need arcane intellect in there as well. I won't like flame cannon and arcane missile is too random for my taste. Suggest to replaced it with arcane explosion/Cone of Cold? Eater of Secrets also really good against mirror's secret.

Edit: Finally Beaten Chess! We did it Boyz!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/lonewanderer666/Screenshot%202016-08-13%2006.42.36_zpssvihzq1h.png (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/lonewanderer666/media/Screenshot%202016-08-13%2006.42.36_zpssvihzq1h.png.html)

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/lonewanderer666/Screenshot%202016-08-12%2022.40.54_zpscy57nddj.png (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/lonewanderer666/media/Screenshot%202016-08-12%2022.40.54_zpscy57nddj.png.html)

[gomipile]

Is there a hard counter for all things priest these days? I've been running into a lot of janky priest decks that stomp all over my midrange hunter and shaman decks. I'd just like something to pilot for a little while that can get me out of the rank 20-15 ghetto that's full of this stuff right now.

[boomwolf]

The counter to priest is hearthstone. There is no viable top tier priest deck.

Therefor, the issue is probably in your deck to begin with. A list will help us spot the issue.

[Kish]

I've thought about Majodomo as a fun debuff. The problem is that you'll always go first so you'll never have the coin which means you can't majodomo and then ping his. You'll need a board to kill the mirror domo and deal 8 damage afterwards for the lethal... sounds very conditional.

All you have to do is survive the turn you summon Executus. The mirror doesn't bother to kill your minions, so your Executus will still be there next turn, ready to do 9 damage to Ragnaros as soon as you kill the Executus reflection.

Is there a hard counter for all things priest these days?
Nope! Being able to use your opponent's deck against itself is at once not consistent enough for priests to have a competitive deck, and sometimes powerful enough for priests to annoy everyone.

[Nerocite]

So I've got enough gold to unlock an adventure wing. Which would you guys say between The Parlor, Uldaman, or Blackwing Lair next? I'm tempted to do the parlor just based on the fact that the Medvih intro deck was some of the most fun I've had playing this game. Everything about it was right for me.

In terms of card quality I would say Uldudman. I had a lot of fun with Blackwing Lair, especially the Nefarius fight.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The counter to priest is hearthstone. There is no viable top tier priest deck.

Therefor, the issue is probably in your deck to begin with. A list will help us spot the issue.
Yeah; basically, curve out and pressure them, getting rid of their minions and continuing to put threats on the board until you can slam down Call of the Wild on Turn 8 and steamroll to victory.

[AgentPaper]

Is there a hard counter for all things priest these days? I've been running into a lot of janky priest decks that stomp all over my midrange hunter and shaman decks. I'd just like something to pilot for a little while that can get me out of the rank 20-15 ghetto that's full of this stuff right now.

If you're having trouble with slow control decks, then going full aggro is probably a good counter. The tried and true face-hunter that focuses on being hyper-aggressive and only attacking the enemy face should be able to kill them before they're able to properly respond and stabilize.

[The Glyphstone]

This Shaman Brawl deck is depressingly terrible. Evolve Shaman is a good deck. This is like a hollow, empty shell of an Evolve Shaman without nay of the good bits. The only deck I've beaten in 8 games was the even worse Shield Paladin.

[Togath]

So I finally beat the mirror(using the deck I linked)... Via fatigue damage... Somehow.
That was odd(I also never got majordomo out).

[Chen]

Exploding sheep is fantastic for the mirror fight. Get him to duplicate one and you're set. Easily won with a mill mage with doomsayers, exploding sheep and brewmasters. Hold a polymorph for Ronin (or keep ice block up).

[The Glyphstone]

Does Magic Mirror have any unique lines other than for Mirror Image*?

*"Hey, that's my favorite card. What's yours, Magma Rager?"

[Hamste]

Does Magic Mirror have any unique lines other than for Mirror Image*?

*"Hey, that's my favorite card. What's yours, Magma Rager?"

Have you tried Heckler? I don't have that wing but it seems like they would say something to that.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Exploding sheep is fantastic for the mirror fight. Get him to duplicate one and you're set. Easily won with a mill mage with doomsayers, exploding sheep and brewmasters. Hold a polymorph for Ronin (or keep ice block up).

To be fair, since he copies all your draw cards, and has extra draw cards of his own, I just used a Druid Mill deck with a lot of draw and explosion effects like so.

(All cards x2)
Innervate, Living Roots, Naturalize, Tentacle of Nzoth, Darnassus Aspirant, Doomsayer, Loot Hoarder, Understable Ghoul, Wrath, Acolyte of Pain, Coldlight , Dancing Swords, Swipe, Druid of the Claw, Volcanic Lumberer.

He has mad scientists, a draw 3 card to mill self, arcane intellect, and +4 more cards from Naturalize. You don't need a 'finisher', just keep drawing cards, and keeping his board cleared every turn, and he'll deck out.

[Tvtyrant]

My anyfin Paladin has no game against secrets decks, I am wondering if Eater of Secrets is enough of a fix to put in a copy.

[Nerocite]

Does Magic Mirror have any unique lines other than for Mirror Image*?

*"Hey, that's my favorite card. What's yours, Magma Rager?"

No special lines for Nefarius unfortunately.

The Silverware Golem has a special line for Knife Juggler activating, and says "Ooooh, knife throw!"

[Landis963]

No special lines for Nefarius unfortunately.

The Silverware Golem has a special line for Knife Juggler activating, and says "Ooooh, knife throw!"

The Juggler needs to hit one of the plates for the line to trigger. Which makes sense, really.

[Rodin]

Magic Mirror has special lines if you're playing Medivh - it gets all happy to see you, then freaks out when it realizes you're Evil Medivh instead of Disco Medivh.

[Rodin]

I just experienced something very strange indeed.

I Evolved a Nerubian Prophet up to a Baron Geddon, and my Priest opponent responded by Entombing it.

Later in the game, he draws Geddon. The card was dramatically held up in front of me, and then flipped over - same way that Flame Leviathan does when it is drawn. Nothing happened, and the Geddon was put into his hand like normal. It just informed me that he had drawn the Entombed card, and that's it.

Is this some new functionality of Entomb? Just to shaft Priests even further?

[Nerocite]

I just experienced something very strange indeed.

I Evolved a Nerubian Prophet up to a Baron Geddon, and my Priest opponent responded by Entombing it.

Later in the game, he draws Geddon. The card was dramatically held up in front of me, and then flipped over - same way that Flame Leviathan does when it is drawn. Nothing happened, and the Geddon was put into his hand like normal. It just informed me that he had drawn the Entombed card, and that's it.

Is this some new functionality of Entomb? Just to shaft Priests even further?

I think it's a bug. I know something similar happens with the Golden Monkey, that when you draw it it looks way bigger than a normal card to your opponent.

[Joran]

Is there a hard counter for all things priest these days? I've been running into a lot of janky priest decks that stomp all over my midrange hunter and shaman decks. I'd just like something to pilot for a little while that can get me out of the rank 20-15 ghetto that's full of this stuff right now.

The hard counter to Priest deck is usually combo decks. Priest can only heal to 30 and can't generally pressure you to make you scared for your life. So, things like Freeze Mage and the Raging Worgen OTK deck should farm Priests. Another good deck against Priests is Renolock; I had good results against them previous to Standard.

Midrange Hunter should be heavily favored against Priest, assuming you have the Call of the Wilds/Highmanes to fill out the deck.

According to the VS Reaper report, Miracle Rogue, Midrange Hunter, and Dragon Warrior are crushing Priests.

http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-12/


I think it's a bug. I know something similar happens with the Golden Monkey, that when you draw it it looks way bigger than a normal card to your opponent.

According to Reddit, this no longer exists: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4x0dm9/golden_monkey_no_longer_shows_the_visual_bug_when/

They did mention in that Reddit thread that Entomb shows "transformed" cards still as a bug.

Another pretty interesting bug is if you or your opponent draws C'Thun with a draw card, it'll play the draw card animation twice. So, Shield Block will Shield Block once, draw C'Thun, and then do the Shield Block animation again.

[Istarial]

So, Disco! Medivh's deck in the prologue is both really fun and OP. But it got me wondering: Are there any adventure bosses that could beat him?

Rafaam might, if he copied the deck, but even then I'm not sure since the deck has so much synergy with Medivh's draw power.
Loatheb might, due to the design of the fight being so minion based, unless you got a very good early draw from Medivh.

But is there anyone else?

[Landis963]

Inspired by Trump's Bolster deck (and my own success with it during the Silverware Golem Heroic fight), I'm going to try and make a Bolster deck of my very own. Mark 1 is in the spoiler.


Warrior
1: Blood to Ichor x2
Execute x2
Whirlwind x2
2: Bolster x2
Revenge x2
Slam x2
3:Acolyte of Pain x2
Fierce Monkey x2
Frothing Berserker
King's Defender x2
Protect the King! x2
Ravaging Ghoul x2
4: Arcanosmith x2
Bloodhoof Brave x2
6: Hogger
7: Obsidian Destroyer x2

Any obvious defects before I take this on ladder for a test run? EDIT: Note that I don't have the dust for a Sylvanas, or a Varian.

[Yael]

So, Disco! Medivh's deck in the prologue is both really fun and OP. But it got me wondering: Are there any adventure bosses that could beat him?

Rafaam might, if he copied the deck, but even then I'm not sure since the deck has so much synergy with Medivh's draw power.
Loatheb might, due to the design of the fight being so minion based, unless you got a very good early draw from Medivh.

But is there anyone else?

Drakkisath... Trust me...

[The Glyphstone]

So, Disco! Medivh's deck in the prologue is both really fun and OP. But it got me wondering: Are there any adventure bosses that could beat him?

Rafaam might, if he copied the deck, but even then I'm not sure since the deck has so much synergy with Medivh's draw power.
Loatheb might, due to the design of the fight being so minion based, unless you got a very good early draw from Medivh.

But is there anyone else?

The trogg boss in Uldaman might be annoying, since he shuts off your spellcasting every other turn.

[Istarial]

Drakkisath... Trust me...

Ah, yes, that'd definitely do it.


The trogg boss in Uldaman might be annoying, since he shuts off your spellcasting every other turn.

Definitely annoying, since when your spells are up, your apprentice can't be played. :)

I looked through the bosses again, and I reckon another that would be trouble is Grand Widow Faerlina. Also, Instructor Razuvious would need some very good draws.
Baron Geddon would be nasty too, as the need to use all the mana will make setting up his combos nigh impossible.


I'd actually forgotten just how ridiculous the naxx heroic bosses could be. :)

[Spore]

I am much happier since the new cards have released. Kibler's Priest of the Feast deck is very viable for laddering, as is the Huntress Yogg N Load and Face Hunters. And I like the Firelands Portal Tempo Mage too.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So as I'm playing Yogg'n'Load, I've had some hilarious games.

I just had one where my Yogg filled my hand, and became a 16/5 with Divine Shield...when my opponent was at 16 Health. :smallbiggrin:

They couldn't clear him, and I had enough cards to clear any taunts they put up.

[PsyBomb]

Inspired by Trump's Bolster deck (and my own success with it during the Silverware Golem Heroic fight), I'm going to try and make a Bolster deck of my very own. Mark 1 is in the spoiler.


Warrior
1: Blood to Ichor x2
Execute x2
Whirlwind x2
2: Bolster x2
Revenge x2
Slam x2
3:Acolyte of Pain x2
Fierce Monkey x2
Frothing Berserker
King's Defender x2
Protect the King! x2
Ravaging Ghoul x2
4: Arcanosmith x2
Bloodhoof Brave x2
6: Hogger
7: Obsidian Destroyer x2

Any obvious defects before I take this on ladder for a test run? EDIT: Note that I don't have the dust for a Sylvanas, or a Varian.

I haven't seen the deck in action, but it seems like you have tons of defense. Possibly consider a Finley, to turn your Hero Power into somethings that can damage.

Other than that, Grommash isn't a bad choice with the number of activators you're running.

EDIT:

Just had one of the more entertaining games of my recent memory, a C'thun Priest mirror. I lost, but it came down to having three copies of the big guy in the deck with 10 cards left and not being able to find one for three draws. Crazy removal fun.

[The Glyphstone]

Heroic Chess defeated, thank the Light. Just got the perfect string of cards I needed to keep his board cleared.

[Togath]

So over the past week, I've gotten Ragnaros the Lightlord and classic Hogger. Any decks they tend to be good in?
I also noticed someone mentioning Varian upthread? Does he have a good niche now?(asking since I have a copy :smallsmile:)

[Anarion]

So over the past week, I've gotten Ragnaros the Lightlord and classic Hogger. Any decks they tend to be good in?
I also noticed someone mentioning Varian upthread? Does he have a good niche now?(asking since I have a copy :smallsmile:)

I haven't seen Hogger in anything. Rag Lightlord is a staple in the control paladin variants, which are pretty solid again thanks to the chess piece. Varian is in one of the midrange warrior variants (the one without dragons), but I think that deck is just worse than other warrior options right now.

[Rodin]

Trump was using Hogger in Protect the King Warrior. It's usefulness was fairly dubious, from what I saw. Hogger is much more likely to be useful to you as dust to get a more reliable card.

[Joran]

So over the past week, I've gotten Ragnaros the Lightlord and classic Hogger. Any decks they tend to be good in?
I also noticed someone mentioning Varian upthread? Does he have a good niche now?(asking since I have a copy :smallsmile:)

As Anarion mentioned, Lightlord is in N'Zoth Paladin. It's a decent deck, but it makes Control Warrior look cheap.

Varian was used in Tempo Warrior, which was hot stuff during the first couple months of Standard, before someone figured out Dragon Warrior, which is tempo warrior, but faster and better. It's still a decent deck, with a good matchup against zoo, but outclassed by Dragon Warrior.

[The_Jackal]

Trump was using Hogger in Protect the King Warrior. It's usefulness was fairly dubious, from what I saw. Hogger is much more likely to be useful to you as dust to get a more reliable card.

The problem with Hogger is that he's a card whose upside is dependent on your opponent having NO answers. The turn 1 value of a 4/4 with a 2/2 is not really worth 6 mana, and a card that has to wait until turn 6 to come out really needs to have immediate game impact or unlock some sick combos. Plus, he dies to some combination of cards that got played earlier. Playing Hogger onto any type of board just means your opponent will trade away some minions, and probably keep them in play, if they were played on the two previous turns. Bottom line, he's too weak to be a tempo play, and too slow to be a value play. If you're trying to rank, dust him.

[Togath]

Hmm. Details on dragon and tempo warrior? They sound interesting.
I'm also curious what goes into a nzoth or control paladin? I kinda have a small selection of legendaries right now, but do have nzoth, ysera, cthun, and ragnaros lightlord(along with all adventure legendaries).
I also have a few more niche cards like illidan or that inspire ethereal that gives random spells.

[Gandariel]

Well you can't really play N'zoth Paladin without Tirion, Sylvanas and Cairne.

[Zevox]

The important legendaries for N'zothadin are N'zoth, Tirion Fordring, Sylvanas Windrunner, and Cairne Bloodhoof. The whole deck is built around how devastating it is for N'zoth to resurrect several of those - or even just Tirion. Rangaros, Lightlord is next most important, a very strong card for helping the deck survive to get to use N'zoth, but without those four, the deck just doesn't work in the first place, survival or no.

[PsyBomb]

Has anyone else been getting nothing but 40g quests recently? I'm on day 6 in a row with quest+reroll and nothing over the base 40. Kinda sucks, since it means I'll be late getting wing 2

[heretic]

Has anyone else been getting nothing but 40g quests recently? I'm on day 6 in a row with quest+reroll and nothing over the base 40. Kinda sucks, since it means I'll be late getting wing 2

Ben Brode confirmed (https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/764513777056264193) that this is a bug rather than an intended feature. Apparently many people (https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4xsf8b/is_anyone_else_still_only_getting_40_gold_quests/) are experiencing the same.

[PsyBomb]

Ben Brode confirmed (https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/764513777056264193) that this is a bug rather than an intended feature. Apparently many people (https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4xsf8b/is_anyone_else_still_only_getting_40_gold_quests/) are experiencing the same.

Thanks, good to know that I'm not the butt end of a 1/4096 anomaly

[Joran]

Hmm. Details on dragon and tempo warrior? They sound interesting.
I'm also curious what goes into a nzoth or control paladin? I kinda have a small selection of legendaries right now, but do have nzoth, ysera, cthun, and ragnaros lightlord(along with all adventure legendaries).
I also have a few more niche cards like illidan or that inspire ethereal that gives random spells.

Dragon Warrior: There's a couple flexes you can put in if you don't own the Legendaries, although Grom/Ragnaros are the most important of the legendaries.
http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/wp-content/uploads/Standard-Dragon-Warrior.png

Tempo Warrior: Very similar list now, earlier versions ran Cairne or Sylvanas, instead of 2 Whirlwinds.
https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/decks/tempo-warrior-standard-meta-snapshot-july-31-2016

[Anarion]

Dragon Warrior: There's a couple flexes you can put in if you don't own the Legendaries, although Grom/Ragnaros are the most important of the legendaries.
http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/wp-content/uploads/Standard-Dragon-Warrior.png


Deathwing is actually pretty important right now. Against control, you'll almost always see him, and he's the response to a huge board when you've got them nearly dead. It's very easy for dragon warrior to get the opponent to ~12-15 and then stall out after they cast board clear and then hex/execute/mulch every big threat that you play. Deathwing is extremely good as a final card. He's also a really good response to the C'thun/Yog play if they've used up all their removal.

[AgentPaper]

Heroic Chess defeated, thank the Light. Just got the perfect string of cards I needed to keep his board cleared.

Yeah, getting a good opener is definitely important. You absolutely need to go turn 1 pawn, turn 2 pawn pawn, turn 3 rook.

Past that, the game is all about lining your pieces up to destroy as many enemy pieces as possible every turn. Don't worry about dealing damage, just try to kill enemy pieces ASAP. Try to put damaged pawns on the left so they're destroyed instead of more valuable pieces. Bishops are close to worthless, only play them after everything else, and only where they will save valuable pieces like rooks or your queen. Use your hero power liberally, especially later on, to try and avoid over-kill and ensure low-health pawns are the ones being cheated out.

If you keep that up, you should eventually overwhelm the opponent's ability to maintain a board, and your excess pieces will make short work of his health pool. Even then though, make sure to keep demolishing whatever he plays each turn without fail, even if it means not using your queen to attack him directly. You simply can't afford to get drawn out into an endurance match.

[Zevox]

Bishops are close to worthless, only play them after everything else, and only where they will save valuable pieces like rooks or your queen.
I'd add one thing to this: one of the most game-changing things you can do is set up a Bishop next to a Knight. That turns the Knight into ridiculous, repeatable removal that only dies to another Knight if you keep it on the far right.

[Joran]

Deathwing is actually pretty important right now. Against control, you'll almost always see him, and he's the response to a huge board when you've got them nearly dead. It's very easy for dragon warrior to get the opponent to ~12-15 and then stall out after they cast board clear and then hex/execute/mulch every big threat that you play. Deathwing is extremely good as a final card. He's also a really good response to the C'thun/Yog play if they've used up all their removal.

True, Deathwing is important, but can probably be replaced by another Faerie Dragon for more early game; it'll make the early game more consistent, but at the cost of losing your only board clear/comeback mechanic. Re-evaluating, Grom's the most important legendary, with Deathwing/Ragnaros at a tier below, and then Mal'korok below them.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

If you keep that up, you should eventually overwhelm the opponent's ability to maintain a board, and your excess pieces will make short work of his health pool. Even then though, make sure to keep demolishing whatever he plays each turn without fail, even if it means not using your queen to attack him directly. You simply can't afford to get drawn out into an endurance match.

TBH once you get to where the enemy is playing 1 card a turn, I'd swap to letting him keep it, and then double-attacking the two pieces with the queen on the next turn for maximal clear, if you're going for 'kill everything the turn it comes out'.

[PsyBomb]

So, testing out Discard Zoo, and it's probably more like Discard FaceLock. You skirmish a bit, then pull out the explosive turn (or just 2-3 in a row way beyond tempo) and top deck them to death with as little field interaction as you can get away with. It's about the only deck I've ever seen that actually gets MORE dangerous in topdeck mode, since it can precisely control what gets discarded "randomly".

Decklist to follow once I have some time on a computer to transcribe, it was a toss-together thing but went 3-0. Two of those came down to coin flips, this is less reliable than Zoo, but it's remarkably bursty and dangerous. Gets out of hand quick, possibly as early as turn 3-4

[Seerow]

I swear time of day has more to do with player skill you run up against than rank on Ladder.


Been working night shifts so usually I'll get an hour or so around 1-2am est to play; and get stomped repeatedly; getting stuck between rank 17 and 19, I even got knocked all the way back to 20 sometime close to the start of the month.


So tonight I have some extra time several hours earlier and decide to queue up for a couple games, and I am on the best win streak I've had to date. I've jumped from rank 18 to 13 without a game lost yet. I am running repeatedly into players making mistakes so sloppy even I recognize them.

Not complaining, if I can keep this streak up to hit whatever rank the next chest unlocks at, I'll be ecstatic. I just find it funny what a difference it makes playing a few hours earlier.

[Zevox]

So, testing out Discard Zoo, and it's probably more like Discard FaceLock. You skirmish a bit, then pull out the explosive turn (or just 2-3 in a row way beyond tempo) and top deck them to death with as little field interaction as you can get away with. It's about the only deck I've ever seen that actually gets MORE dangerous in topdeck mode, since it can precisely control what gets discarded "randomly".

Decklist to follow once I have some time on a computer to transcribe, it was a toss-together thing but went 3-0. Two of those came down to coin flips, this is less reliable than Zoo, but it's remarkably bursty and dangerous. Gets out of hand quick, possibly as early as turn 3-4
:smallconfused: Why even bother trying a Discard deck when Malchezzar's Imp isn't out yet? You're missing one of the key cards that makes the archetype seem like it might actually be viable until then.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

:smallconfused: Why even bother trying a Discard deck when Malchezzar's Imp isn't out yet? You're missing one of the key cards that makes the archetype seem like it might actually be viable until then.

I think partly to see how the deck runs versus other decks and have the experiments made (and experience piloting the deck) before you actually use it. I know i'm shaping up and testing out this Barnes Hunter deck with a few of the cards swapped around, and it'll be decent once I get barnes. Though I'm not sure how top tier viable it is.

[Togath]

So using the veiled huntress card...
Advice for what secrets, and how many to include? I've been using freezing trap, explosive trap, and snipe.
I'd also wondered if anyone had advice for... Well, what to include outside of that synergy bubble.
(current deck is otherwise basically a standard nzoth hunter)

[PsyBomb]

:smallconfused: Why even bother trying a Discard deck when Malchezzar's Imp isn't out yet? You're missing one of the key cards that makes the archetype seem like it might actually be viable until then.

Trust me when I say that Viability is not in question, with or without the Imp. Silverware Golem was enough. I ran a couple of Voidwalkers in their place just to see what it played like and plan combos, and it didn't matter. Low rank testing since I've been playing my weaker classes, but still won 3.

Might not be as consistently strong as Zoo or as heavy as Handlock/Reno, but it's going to be a factor

[Zevox]

So using the veiled huntress card...
Advice for what secrets, and how many to include? I've been using freezing trap, explosive trap, and snipe.
I'd also wondered if anyone had advice for... Well, what to include outside of that synergy bubble.
(current deck is otherwise basically a standard nzoth hunter)
:smallconfused: Since when is N'zoth Hunter even a thing?

Anyway, I'd assume the secrets you want to use will be based on whether you're taking a more aggressive or midrange tack with the deck. Aggro Hunter likes Explosive Trap, and could probably throw in Freezing and Bear Traps - maybe Misdirection, if you want to try something that hasn't been seen in two years. Midrange likes Freezing Trap, Bear Trap, and maybe Snake Trap. Snipe historically has never made the cut in any good Hunter decks, I'd be inclined to stay away from that.

Bear in mind this is all coming from someone who doesn't play Hunter though, just sees what other people play in Hunter.


Trust me when I say that Viability is not in question, with or without the Imp. Silverware Golem was enough. I ran a couple of Voidwalkers in their place just to see what it played like and plan combos, and it didn't matter. Low rank testing since I've been playing my weaker classes, but still won 3.
Yeah, between being in the low ranks and the low number of games played, I don't think what testing you've done can possibly prove anything one way or the other. If a few strong wins in the low ranks meant a deck was viable, several of my attempts at making a Control Rogue or various flavors of Control Mage work would have long ago proven viable, and they did not.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

So using the veiled huntress card...
Advice for what secrets, and how many to include? I've been using freezing trap, explosive trap, and snipe.
I'd also wondered if anyone had advice for... Well, what to include outside of that synergy bubble.
(current deck is otherwise basically a standard nzoth hunter)

I'd say sub out the snipes for bears. Snipe generally is hard to aim and often won't get the value you need, whereas bears can mess up ordering, and be played sometimes as a 2 mana 3/3 with taunt on turn 2.


:smallconfused: Since when is N'zoth Hunter even a thing?

I know I've tried to make N'zoth work out in hunter, mainly just kind of a hunter that curves out to 10 with a n'zoth that digs for at least 1 highmane+change. Issue being the game doesn't go on long enough for you to get it and it's very inconsistent, plus it's 'really' not the card you want sitting in your hand from t2-3 all the way to t10. Least that's the reason I shifted away from it.


I'm probably going to try out beast druid variations once the x2 druid beast card comes out, tbh.

[Zevox]

I'm probably going to try out beast druid variations once the x2 druid beast card comes out, tbh.
Oh, I'll do that too, for sure. I just can't justify trying to do it now, with only the Raven out but not Menagerie Warden.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Oh, I'll do that too, for sure. I just can't justify trying to do it now, with only the Raven out but not Menagerie Warden.

Yeah, 'that' deck I'm not trying at all yet, as that card itself is pretty essential in that deck. Though that's cause it's the centerpiece value card. If that card came out this week instead of the 2/2 beast for 1, I'd probably give it a shot, even though I'd want to put in that 2/2 for 1 later on once it 'did' come out.

[Togath]

I don't see why a hunter with nzoth is bad? They have a ton of deathrattle synergy, and I rarely don't manage to last until turn 10 at least(snipes help control the board in my experience, since it forces the opponent to either play weirdly or risk being unable to play stuff on curve).

[Zevox]

I don't see why a hunter with nzoth is bad? They have a ton of deathrattle synergy, and I rarely don't manage to last until turn 10 at least(snipes help control the board in my experience, since it forces the opponent to either play weirdly or risk being unable to play stuff on curve).
Well, there's the obvious reason that Hunter does not want to be a slow deck, while N'zoth requires it. The class' hero power is garbage for a control deck, and most of their cards encourage aggression or at most mid-range play as well. Few are oriented towards a Control style, and many of those aren't really strong enough to make it work (see Multishot, for example).

Then there's the fact that their deathrattle synergy cards are not actually good. Oh, they have a few good deathrattle minions - Savannah Highmane, Firey Bat, and Infested Wolf - but the "synergy" cards are another story. Feign Death is out of standard, but sucked anyway - too dependant on building a board or very high-value individual deathrattles. Forlorn Stalker's bonus is too slow to make up for his unimpressive statline and may not even hit that many things, depending on your draws. And while Princess Huhuran seems like a good card on paper, I haven't heard of her showing up in any competitive decks, so I guess she somehow hasn't worked out so well either. And even if she had, well, that's one deathrattle synergy card that you can only have one of. And would still probably be better in a Midrange Hunter that tops out at Call of the Wild anyway.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The main issue for control Hunter is, surprisingly, not actually their hero power. (Their hero power, I keep saying, could be amazing in a Freeze Mage-style stall deck.)

The bigger problem is that Hunter's cards are not the cards of a control class. They're all oriented towards heavy damage and burst. Hunter doesn't have anything like Ragnaros, Lightlord or Forbidden Healing or Tirion Fordring. It just doesn't have the class cards to be a control class.

[Zevox]

The main issue for control Hunter is, surprisingly, not actually their hero power. (Their hero power, I keep saying, could be amazing in a Freeze Mage-style stall deck.)
I'd disagree with that, actually. Freeze Mage wants to burst the opponent down in two turns, maybe three tops - spending 2 mana on 2 damage to face is not really good enough for that. Heck, it doesn't even care about the occasional damage it may do before the end-game burn comes down, because that end-game burn is usually started by Alexstraza anyway.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That's true. It's more of a grinder playstyle. Imagine Healadin, but instead of putting a 1/1 on the board, Paladin gets to bring you 2 damage closer to death. It's like they get to mini-fatigue you every turn. It puts you on a clock, and creates inevitability. The biggest strength of the Hunter hero power is being able to set up checkmate situations against anyone who isn't Warrior or Priest.

That's also why I don't think the Hunter hero power is very aggro at all: 2 damage for 2 mana is incredibly inefficient for an aggro deck (Fiery Bat is 2 damage for 1 mana, and a possible additional 2 damage for every turn it stays alive, and that's just the start), and any aggro or midrange Hunter doesn't usually have the 2 mana to spare unless they're not doing well. Slowly burning the opponent down is exactly what a fatigue/control deck wants to do.

[Gandariel]

I'd disagree with that, actually. Freeze Mage wants to burst the opponent down in two turns, maybe three tops - spending 2 mana on 2 damage to face is not really good enough for that. Heck, it doesn't even care about the occasional damage it may do before the end-game burn comes down, because that end-game burn is usually started by Alexstraza anyway.

To be honest, in the lategame (after Alex, or when the opponent is close to burst range anyways) the Hunter hero power is good.

In the early game the Mage's is the best, since you do need to ping stuff.

That's why I run Finley in my Freeze Mage.

You don't want to play it early, but in the lategame it can be super useful (depending on the situation, i pick either Hunter or Priest/Warrior, or sometimes Warlock)