Optimize this Feat #23: Wingstorm from Savage Species p.40

[daremetoidareyo]

I Love Feats. They are little alterations to the rules and they interface with class features in some really fun and strange ways. Sometimes their utility is circumspect and sometimes they just stink. I'm looking at you Battle Dance. However, there is just something really satisfying about the interplay of feats and rules to produce illogical and unintended effects.

What is this?
So this is the "Optimize this feat" discussion, wherein we work together to plumb the clever and amazing uses for feats in ways the designers could have only dreamt of. Arbitrary credit seems to be important to sway people's incentives, so I have devised the following system to award credit to people who help explore the possibilities of how to use a feat. I'm developing this pseudo-contest on the fly, so rules are subject to change.


All participants in the optimization endeavor post directly into the thread. They may post as many times as they want, just like any thread where you volunteer your ideas. After a week or so, the thread will be evaluated and participants will be assigned a score. That score represents how helpful or novel the poster was in their analysis of a feat's uses, abuses, interactions, and limitations. The rubric by which points are assigned to posters is developed below. The poster's who are most helpful will be announced after a week, and have their name highlighted in bold and in a font color other than black! The guest judge will try to remain interactive in the process, because the contest element to me is secondary to extracting the maximum amount of versatility and power out of the feat resource.

Point Allocation Rubric
The following list is not exhaustive of how points will be allocated, as I imagine that there will be weird end cases.

Suggestion of a non-overtly obvious class feature, spell, feat, skill trick, psi-power, magic/psionic item, or monster that interplays with the feat to produce an exaggerated result.

Overt Obviousness will be judged by me, but I will generally allocate points generously, What I am trying to avoid is people suggesting feat interplays that are non-exceptional and thus cluttering the thread with lame and uninteresting things. 1 pt

If the suggestion is particularly powerful or clever, an additional point may be allocated to reward the optimizerly thinking. This decision is mine, although I will be swayed by what seems like genuine "co-signing," where other posters in the thread really glom onto the idea and develop it further.

A small build stub, between 5-12 levels, that includes a small write up of how the feat interplays with a few class features, racial features, spells, powers and feats to produce an effect that is far beyond the scope of what the feat of the week is capable of providing on its own. 5 points. +/- 1 point.

A rather undeveloped stub may only receive 4 points if it is a slightly modified rehash of a previous stub. A rather ingenious stub can earn an extra point. In some cases, you may actually do both! All of these are judgement calls as adjudicated by myself.

A fully functional optimization of the feat that ramps it up to its maximum power level where there is no way to possibly make it more amazing, including a 20 level build that follows the same format as iron chef dishes, but with minimal write up, is worthy of 10-12 points.

As the Chair, I will remain interactive throughout the thread, even suggesting a few builds. Commenting on these is fine and all of the rubric points apply to those as well. This means that the thread is not a totally objective competition.

A display of relevant rules expertise that shapes the discussion is worthy of 0 or 1 point. This is the "squishiest" criteria, and will only be allocated when it corrects part of the conversation that is going too far off the rails. Particularly nasty interchanges about RAW may lead to abdication of this point. Being incorrect isn't an immoral offense, so I want an atmosphere where suggestions are flying but staying generally within the real bounds of dnd play. RAW discussions tend to get a little too personal, and hopefully this arbitrary point system can circumvent that. Plus, seeing as how extensive the rules system is, it is easy for me to get excited about how to make an idea work and get lost about the details.

BIAS
I am not a perfect judge. I prefer mundane to magical. I prefer Tier 3 and below to Tier 2 and up. But I do love me some dysfunction. So optimization that requires a lot of high level spells or powers (anything level 4 or up) will be less impressive to me. Go ahead and make your suggestion, I will try to police these biases in myself, but understand that these are factors that are in play.

Other information
All of that said, I have an exhibited tendency to be more forgiving/rules lax, whereas some of you are far more RAW heavy. I really do appreciate ya'll, so don't be afraid to reign in some of the theory and ground it in what is explicitly allowed. Different tables play the game differently. And this forum tends to highlight super polarized ends of this permissiveness spectrum that spans from "RAW to a fault" - "So ridiculously theoretically unbalanced beyond any DM's willingness to allow". Most play tends to be in the middle, if not a little skewed towards RAW: but not all play. With that in mind, if requested, if you are asked to assume that the theoretical DM handwaves your criticism as a special exception, please update your approach and proceed from there if you would like to continue to parse the possibilities that a feat offers. In this way, we can develop the full spectrum of what a feat can do.

This week's Feat is Wingstorm from Savage Species p.40

This endeavor concludes at 11:59PM Eastern Standard Time on April 15th, 2017

Optimize this Feat 1:Wanderer's Diplomacy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472308-Optimize-This-Feat-1-Wanderer-s-Diplomacy): VAZ
Optimize this Feat 2: Conductivity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473047-Optimize-this-Feat-2-Conductivity-from-Unearthed-Arcana&highlight=Conductivity): ben-zayb
Optimize this Feat 3: Swim-by Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?474225-Optimize-this-feat-3-Swim-by-attack-from-Stormwrack): WhamBamSam
Optimize this Feat 4: Contagious Paralysis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476019-Optimize-this-Feat-4-Contagious-Paralysis-from-Libris-Mortis) WhamBamSam
Optimize this Feat 5: Hammer and Piton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477681-Optimize-this-Feat-5-Hammer-and-Piton-From-Dungeonscape) Zetapup
Optimize this Feat 6: Residual Rebound (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479041-Optimize-this-Feat-6-Residual-Rebound-from-Unearthed-Arcana&p=20493024#post20493024) ben-zayb
Optimize this Feat 7: Mark of Phlegethos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480323-Optimize-this-Feat-7-Mark-of-Phlegethos-from-Fiendish-Codex-2-Tot9H): Darrin
Optimize this Feat 8: Seelie Court Noble Kelir (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492298-Optimize-this-Feat-8-Seelie-Court-Noble-Kelir-(web)): Jowgen
Optimize this Feat 9: Animal Friends (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?493792-Optimize-this-Feat-9-Races-of-Faerun-s-Animal-friends-p-161): Troacctid
Optimize this Feat 10A: Primary Contact (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?495860-Optimize-this-feat-10-Primary-Contact-plus-Einhander-lightning-round&p=21075488#post21075488): Jormengand & WhamBamSam
Optimize this Feat 10B lightning round: Einhander from PHB2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?495860-Optimize-this-feat-10-Primary-Contact-plus-Einhander-lightning-round): Zaq

Optimize this Feat 11: Supremely Confident from Dragon #335 p.88 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496731-Optimize-this-feat-11-Supremely-Confident-from-Dragon-335-p-88&p=21076906): To Be Determined
Optimize this Feat 12: Spirit Sense (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498138-Optimize-this-feat-12-Spirit-Sense-from-Heroes-of-Horror-p-124) from Heroes of Horror p.124: Jormengand
Optimize this Feat #13: Cards Over Swords (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501738-Optimize-this-Feat-13-Cards-over-Swords-from-Three-Dragon-Ante-web-supplement&p=21301495#post21301495) from the Three Dragon Ante Web: Darrin & Morcleon
Optimize this Feat #14: Dual Planes Summons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503445-Optimize-this-Feat-14-Dual-Plane-Summons-from-Dragon-313) from Dragon Magazine #313: To Be Determined
Optimize this Feat #15: Formation Expert (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505193-Optimize-This-Feat-15-Formation-Expert-from-Complete-Warrior-p-110) from Complete Warrior: Darrin
Optimize this feat #16: Bloodspiked Charger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?506408-Optimize-this-Feat-16-Bloodspiked-Charger-from-PHB2): WhamBamSam
Optimize this Feat #17: Betrayal of the Spirit linked from Dragon Magazine #336 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509597-Optimize-This-Feat-17-Betrayal-of-the-spirit-linked-from-dragon-magazine-336): Menzath
Optimize this Feat #18: Truebond from DMG2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510434-Optimize-this-Feat-18-Truebond-from-DMG2&p=21574324): unseenmage
Optimize this feat #19: Eldritch Corruption from Heroes of Horror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?511910-Optimize-this-Feat-19-Eldritch-Corruption-from-Heroes-of-Horror-p-122#post21592555): Darrin.
Optimize this Feat #20: Imbued Healing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?512996-Optimize-this-Feat-20-Imbued-Healing-from-Complete-Champion-p-60&p=21632245) from Complete Champion: Lateral & Troacctid
Optimize this Feat #21: Create Spectral Spawn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514470-Optimize-this-Feat-21-Create-Spectral-Spawn-from-Dragons-of-Faerun-Web-Supplement) from Dragons of Faerun Web Enhancement: WhamBamSam
Optimize this Feat #22: Pain Mastery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?516560-Optimize-this-feat-22-Pain-Mastery-from-Savage-Species) from Savage Species: WhamBamSam and Menzath

Upcoming Schedule:

Don't post your ideas for these on the wrong competition. Save em. Unleash your brilliance on us.
Optimize this feat #24: Ragewild Fighting from Races of Eberron p.118
Optimize this feat #25: Mastery of the Dead from Player's Guide to Eberron p.

Other feats in the pool: detach from Savage Species, Elder Giant magic, stamp, battleshifter training, Multi-tasking, Tainted Druid (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030428a<br /><br />http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030428a), Spell Mantle (LEoF p.112), Cleave from the SRD


Join the wingstorm resistance!!! The one true Optimize this Feat #23 is wingstorm. We, the disembodied emotional resonance of wanting to argue about dragonwraught kobolds but not getting to will never back down!

[daremetoidareyo]

The feat text is below




WINGSTORM [MONSTROUS]
You can flatten targets with blasts of air from your wings.

Prerequisite: Str 13, fly speed 20 ft., Large size, Hover, Power Attack.

Benefit: As a full-round action, you can hover in place and use your wings to create a blast of air in a cylinder with a radius and maximum height based on your size. The wind strength also depends on your size, as shown on the table below.



Size
Wind Effect
Radius
Max. Height


Large
Severe
10'
40'


Huge
Windstorm
20'
80'


Gargantuan
Hurricane
30'
100'


Colossal
Tornado
40'
120'




Because the blast of air only lasts for your turn, creatures ignore the checked effect unless they are airborne (in which case they are blown back 1d6 × 5 feet).

Special: You can use this feat for a full round instead of as a full-round action. If you do, the wind lasts until your next turn (and you can choose to continue the effect during your next turn). Anyone in or entering the cylinder is affected. Because you are producing a continuous blast of air, the checked effect works normally while the wind lasts (checked creatures cannot move forward against the force of the wind, or they are blown back 1d6 × 5 feet if airborne).

Actually, this feat was updated in Draconomicon p.75:


You can flatten targets with blasts of air from your wings.


Prerequisites: Str 13, dragon, fly speed 20, Hover, Power Attack, size Large or larger.

Benefit: As a full-round action, you can hover in place and use your wings to create a blast of air in a cylinder with a radius and height of 10 feet times your age category.
The wind blows from the center of your body toward the outside edge at the bottom of the cylinder. The force of the wind depends on your size, as indicated below. For the effects of high winds, see Table 3–24 on page 95 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.




Dragon Size
Wind Force


Large
Severe


Huge
Windstorm


Gargantuan
Hurricane


Colossal
Tornado





Because the blast of air only lasts for your turn, creatures ignore the checked effect unless they are airborne (in which case they are blown back 1d6 X 5 feet).

Special: You can elect to keep the wind in effect for longer than your current turn. If you do, the wind lasts until your next turn (and you can opt to continue the
effect during your next turn). Anyone in or entering the cylinder is affected. Because you are producing a continuous blast of air, the checked effect works normally while the wind lasts (checked creatures cannot move forward against the force of the wind, or they are blown back (1d6X 5 feet if airborne).

Have at it.

[Thurbane]

FYI latest version of this feat is in Draconomicon. Not sure if there were any significant changes.

[daremetoidareyo]

FYI latest version of this feat is in Draconomicon. Not sure if there were any significant changes.

Thanks. I'll look it up. Oooh. Dragons only... that...kinda kills a lot of momentum.

I'll put it to ya'll. Should we swap feats out? This one isn't the winner that I thought it was. If the dragon only requisite is fine by all of you, I'm fine with it too.

[Malroth]

Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold is a great Wyrm dragon and with Stoneblessed (Goliath) and Goliath Barbarian Mountain rage should be able to grow to Large.

[Gruftzwerg]

I'm afraid it will end with the first DWK build that will come up ^^

I had something like a DWK Wu-Jen in mind:

Size to Colossal + Body outside Body + epic feats = profit?

edit: got swordsaged -.-

[Inevitability]

Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold is a great Wyrm dragon and with Stoneblessed (Goliath) and Goliath Barbarian Mountain rage should be able to grow to Large.

Mountain Rage and Stoneblessed in no way increase your actual size by two categories.

Of course, there's the interpretation that being a dragonwrought kobold of sufficient age turns you Colossal on its own...

[Venger]

Several different directions to go on this:

1) the size increases, obviously. boost your size by your method of choice (giant size as mentioned) and then blow everyone's mind/houses down
2) use bestow curse on yourself and advance your desired number of age categories to get more powerful wind
3) use control weather once you've got the tornado started and keep it going, move it around, make it worse, exacerbate a smaller wind and turn it into a tornado, etc. use concentration tricks (solicit psicrystal, etc) to have someone else move the tornado(es) around while you work on creating more.

[Uncle Pine]

As per ELH, a dragonwrought kobold that reached venerable age at 1st level becomes Colossal at 4th. Add Improved Dragon Wings (you can skip Dragon Wings) and a couple of flaws and you can qualify for Wingstorm at 4th level, although you'll have to wait until 6th to select it unless you add some feats shenanigans.

[WhamBamSam]

Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold is a great Wyrm dragon and with Stoneblessed (Goliath) and Goliath Barbarian Mountain rage should be able to grow to Large.
Mountain Rage and Stoneblessed in no way increase your actual size by two categories.

Of course, there's the interpretation that being a dragonwrought kobold of sufficient age turns you Colossal on its own...Mountain Rage sets your size to exactly Large. Problem is, Dragons don't qualify for Stoneblessed.

A Changeling with a flaw can take Racial Emulation and Dragonwrought at first level and be able to switch between types as needed. You might be able to achieve it without flaws if you can cheese the replacement of your first Humanoid HD. You'd start as a Humanoid 1 with Racial Emulation and become a Half-Elf Paragon 1 with your new bonus feat going to Dragonwrought (might require a Psionic Reformation, but at least not a Chaos Shuffle).

One can Polymorph into an Ibrandlin at CL 9 or 10. A Mortal Hunter 8 can do so permanently assuming you can get some flesh from one, if temporary qualification is an issue. Polymorph changes type, so that makes you a Gargantuan Dragon. They're flightless, but that can be solved with automatic qualification for Improved Dragon Wings or a number of other ways.

Venger's list of things to do once you've gotten over the hurdle of being a giant dragon is pretty good. I'd also add the fear effect from drawing a Pandemonic Silver weapon (CWar). With free action drawing of some kind, you can even do it in the same round you create your Wingstorm.

[Malroth]

As per ELH, a dragonwrought kobold that reached venerable age at 1st level becomes Colossal at 4th. Add Improved Dragon Wings (you can skip Dragon Wings) and a couple of flaws and you can qualify for Wingstorm at 4th level, although you'll have to wait until 6th to select it unless you add some feats shenanigans.

I've never heard this before how does this work?

[Venger]

I've never heard this before how does this work?

Dragonwrought changes your type to dragon. When dragons advance age categories, they get big. that's pretty much it.

[Darrin]

Dragonwrought changes your type to dragon. When dragons advance age categories, they get big. that's pretty much it.

You're kinda skipping over the 100+ pages with people arguing about whether or not dragonwrought kobolds really get age categories as true dragons, or if the designers were hitting that ol' hobbit pipeweed a little too hard.

[daremetoidareyo]

Does dragonblood allow you to use this feat?

[Venger]

You're kinda skipping over the 100+ pages with people arguing about whether or not dragonwrought kobolds really get age categories as true dragons, or if the designers were hitting that ol' hobbit pipeweed a little too hard.

I mean, judging from Malroth's question, my impression was more that he was asking "what trick are you referring to, exactly?" since Uncle Pine said "when you get old, you get big" as a simple matter of course, so I thought he was just asking what the trick was rather than inquiring as to its legality.

RAW, of course they do, but like drown-healing, good luck using it at a real table. You get epic spells too, but it didn't seem germane, so I didn't mention it so the thread doesn't become about that.

EDIT:

Does dragonblood allow you to use this feat?


The dragonblood subtype does not confer the dragon type or any traits associated with that type.

Dragons can automatically take dragonblooded feats, but the inverse is not true.

[Darrin]

Does dragonblood allow you to use this feat?

No.

Races of the Dragon p. 4:

"The subtype qualifies a creature to use magic items normally only usable by dragons, and qualifies the creature to take feats that have the subtype as a prerequisite. [...] The dragonblood subtype does not confer the dragon type or any traits associated with that type."

The Dragonblood subtype does not qualify you for feats that require the Dragon type.

[Uncle Pine]

You're kinda skipping over the 100+ pages with people arguing about whether or not dragonwrought kobolds really get age categories as true dragons, or if the designers were hitting that ol' hobbit pipeweed a little too hard.

That's because the rules for Advanced Dragons don't care about whether you're a true dragon or not: you just need to be a dragon and then you pick a list of benefits according to the size your species is at wyrmling stage and whether or not it normally reaches Colossal size. For the record, dragonwrought kobolds are Small dragons when wyrmling and never reach Colossal size during the course of their 12 age categories. Again, whether they are true dragons or just dragons is irrelevant. Source. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonAdvanced.htm)

[daremetoidareyo]

Stepping in now to prevent a derail.

Pro Dragonwrought crowd can continue to optimize. If your table allows it, then you deserve to see some optimization ideas.

Anti dragonwrought crowd should divert energies towards optimizing the feat in non dragonwrought ways.

[daremetoidareyo]

I'm going to call a mulligan on this one. This wasn't a good feat because...I didn't check the errata.

Optimize this feat #23:Wingstorm from Savage Species p.40 now official declared illegitimate.
The one true optimize this feat #23 will be up in a few.

[Darrin]

I'm going to call a mulligan on this one. This wasn't a good feat because...I didn't check the errata.


Is... there any errata for Savage Species? I'm looking at the archived errata page, and I'm not seeing it.

[Thurbane]

Is... there any errata for Savage Species? I'm looking at the archived errata page, and I'm not seeing it.

I think he's probably referring to the fact the feat was updated in Draconomicon.