Really evil things to do

[danielxcutter]

Yeah... what the title says. To be more specific, if it's 100% roleplay-based, I'm not interested. It has to use some spell, item, or otherwise. Also, using them in creative ways is encouraged. Love's Pain is simple - using the spell so the target can see their loved one is less simple. Get the idea?

[Soranar]

In the book of vile darkness I think, you have an option to create evil magic item by paying the cost for them in sacrifices (as in intelligent being sacrifices) instead of XP and gold

Evil magic items created that way are also more powerful (caster level +1 I think)

Basically it gives your evil spellcaster a reason to kill people to power his artifacts

[Malroth]

Use Dark craft XP to make a lv 2 scroll of magic missile. Exactly as powerful as a CL1 scroll of magic missile and probably less efficient than using the XP you would have gotten for defeating them normally to create the scroll but it does cause needless suffering first.

[flappeercraft]

There is always the classic custom Bestow Curse which basically is anything you can imagine that your DM will let you get away with

[yellowrocket]

Twist everything to justify cruel lawful good behavior. What's more evil than a by the letter genocidal lawful good character?

[Technetium43]

I feel like the greatest evil comes from forcing non-evil people to commit atrocities they never would on their own. Not through actual magical compulsion, but through simple blackmail, catch-22s, and clever planning. Take anything 'horrifically evil' you can think of, and add a degree of separation, and suddenly it's much worse.

[danielxcutter]

In the book of vile darkness I think, you have an option to create evil magic item by paying the cost for them in sacrifices (as in intelligent being sacrifices) instead of XP and gold

Evil magic items created that way are also more powerful (caster level +1 I think)

Basically it gives your evil spellcaster a reason to kill people to power his artifacts

Very Evil, but also very cliche, tbh. Still, Evil is Evil.


Use Dark craft XP to make a lv 2 scroll of magic missile. Exactly as powerful as a CL1 scroll of magic missile and probably less efficient than using the XP you would have gotten for defeating them normally to create the scroll but it does cause needless suffering first.

That's... a little more petty than Evil with a capital E, but as above, Evil is Evil I guess.


There is always the classic custom Bestow Curse which basically is anything you can imagine that your DM will let you get away with

More specific examples would be welcome, but thanks for the idea.


Twist everything to justify cruel lawful good behavior. What's more evil than a by the letter genocidal lawful good character?

Uh... I mean actual, "would make a Blackguard with Vile feats lose his lunch" Evil. Plus your example would likely bring an alignment shift fairly quickly.

[danielxcutter]

I feel like the greatest evil comes from forcing non-evil people to commit atrocities they never would on their own. Not through actual magical compulsion, but through simple blackmail, catch-22s, and clever planning. Take anything 'horrifically evil' you can think of, and add a degree of separation, and suddenly it's much worse.

Oooh, this is actually much better than I expected. Yeah, that's got to be the only thing more vile than actually doing it yourself.

[Technetium43]

Oooh, this is actually much better than I expected. Yeah, that's got to be the only thing more vile than actually doing it yourself.

I can riff on this for a bit if you want. While I did mention avoiding magical compulsion in the abstract, there are certain situations where it can have a much greater emotional impact. For example, you could blackmail someone into killing someone for you... or you could dominate their child/lover/most trusted ally, and have them take care of the problem. Then, just leave them alone. End the domination, and just sit back and grab your popcorn. At that point they have to live with the guilt of murdering someone very close to them. There are sort of two methods to the actual act itself: have them do it incredibly sloppily or in broad daylight so they get caught (let's see how well 'but I was dominated I swear!' flies in court, if it even gets to that), or have them do a bang-up job not incriminating themselves, and forge evidence implicating someone ELSE. That way, they either have to watch as someone innocent takes the fall for them without even knowing why, or they'll be overwhelmed by the guilt and turn themselves in. No matter what you've ruined at least a couple lives.

And, while it might be quite tempting to ruin someone more powerful, this sort of behind the scenes monstrous asshattery works best on just normal, simple commoners. Because that means, even if the big heroes find out about it... chances are they have something more important to do. Do we take care of this difficult to find, extremely careful villain who's exclusively preying on largely irrelevant people, or A GODDAMN DRAGON. Switch your base of operations around every so often to let any sort of heat die down, and you can get a pretty good clip of abominable acts going pretty quickly.

[danielxcutter]

I can riff on this for a bit if you want. While I did mention avoiding magical compulsion in the abstract, there are certain situations where it can have a much greater emotional impact. For example, you could blackmail someone into killing someone for you... or you could dominate their child/lover/most trusted ally, and have them take care of the problem. Then, just leave them alone. End the domination, and just sit back and grab your popcorn. At that point they have to live with the guilt of murdering someone very close to them. There are sort of two methods to the actual act itself: have them do it incredibly sloppily or in broad daylight so they get caught (let's see how well 'but I was dominated I swear!' flies in court, if it even gets to that), or have them do a bang-up job not incriminating themselves, and forge evidence implicating someone ELSE. That way, they either have to watch as someone innocent takes the fall for them without even knowing why, or they'll be overwhelmed by the guilt and turn themselves in. No matter what you've ruined at least a couple lives.

You should have helped WotC write the Book of Vile Darkness.


And, while it might be quite tempting to ruin someone more powerful, this sort of behind the scenes monstrous asshattery works best on just normal, simple commoners. Because that means, even if the big heroes find out about it... chances are they have something more important to do. Do we take care of this difficult to find, extremely careful villain who's exclusively preying on largely irrelevant people, or A GODDAMN DRAGON. Switch your base of operations around every so often to let any sort of heat die down, and you can get a pretty good clip of abominable acts going pretty quickly.

Funny, I had a similar idea. Not for a game or anything, just a "hey, this kind of villain would be total cowdung" thing, but yeah. Perhaps great minds think alike.

Speaking of great minds... Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel.

[Gildedragon]

Be an artificer, get the Blood Artisan feat. Flood the market with cursed magic items.
Make cheap cursed items that are double cursed... incense of obsession that also prevents the user from casting arcane spells.

use mindrape to take over people's lives.

[Ellrin]

Building on the dominate stuff, I think, were I in such a situation, I'd prefer to dominate someone close to the subject I wanted to torture, force that person to do something horrific, and then force that person to start doing something even more horrific in a situation where only the torment victim could possibly stop them, and that only by killing the dominated victim.

Or, ooh, even better. Make it possible for them to stop the dominated person without killing them, but they still have to maim or cripple the dominated person to stop them.

E.g.
The BBEG feels like screwing with the paladin and dominates the paladin's young son. The son first kills a playmate just as the paladin comes home to witness it, and then moves to kill the paladin's previously restrained daughter. Paladin moves to restrain him, but BBEG has put a freedom of movement effect on the son. Paladin has to make a split second decision how to handle it, and tries to attack the boy in a way that won't harm him, but the son twists into the attack at the last minute so that it cripples him permanently.

Now the son and paladin both have to live with the guilt of their actions. Maybe if one of them gets particularly depressed the BBEG can even suggest suicide.

Well, RAW I guess that last bit doesn't work even if they're considering it without the BBEG's help, due to the "obviously harmful" clause, but you get the point.

You could easily tease this scenario out and make it more complex and deliciously emotional if you wanted, it was just a quick and dirty example. A villain with enough time on his hands could really turn something like that into poetry.

[danielxcutter]

Building on the dominate stuff, I think, were I in such a situation, I'd prefer to dominate someone close to the subject I wanted to torture, force that person to do something horrific, and then force that person to start doing something even more horrific in a situation where only the torment victim could possibly stop them, and that only by killing the dominated victim.

Or, ooh, even better. Make it possible for them to stop the dominated person without killing them, but they still have to maim or cripple the dominated person to stop them.

E.g.
The BBEG feels like screwing with the paladin and dominates the paladin's young son. The son first kills a playmate just as the paladin comes home to witness it, and then moves to kill the paladin's previously restrained daughter. Paladin moves to restrain him, but BBEG has put a freedom of movement effect on the son. Paladin has to make a split second decision how to handle it, and tries to attack the boy in a way that won't harm him, but the son twists into the attack at the last minute so that it cripples him permanently.

Now the son and paladin both have to live with the guilt of their actions. Maybe if one of them gets particularly depressed the BBEG can even suggest suicide.

Well, RAW I guess that last bit doesn't work even if they're considering it without the BBEG's help, due to the "obviously harmful" clause, but you get the point.

You could easily tease this scenario out and make it more complex and deliciously emotional if you wanted, it was just a quick and dirty example. A villain with enough time on his hands could really turn something like that into poetry.

I hope you haven't ever done that to one of your players....

[icefractal]

(let's see how well 'but I was dominated I swear!' flies in court, if it even gets to that)In D&D-land? Probably pretty well, given the number of evil spirits, mages, and whatnot out there that can mess with minds.

I mean, it still is pretty evil though, especially if you go with the "frame a third party" option.


Paladin has to make a split second decision how to handle it, and tries to attack the boy in a way that won't harm him, but the son twists into the attack at the last minute so that it cripples him permanently.Thiiis part is a bit of stretch. It's not impossible, but it seems pretty difficult to twist in such a way that it turns a deliberately softened punch into a permanently crippling blow.

Also not technically possible in the rules, but that would mostly matter if a PC is involved, which I agree with danielxcutter - I hope not! :smalleek:

[Uncle Pine]

Use magically aged cursed 4th level dragonwrought kobold Experts as mules/slaves. Plus quadrupedal if you have access to Advanced Bestiary, but that's just to crank up their maximum load even more so since it's unnecessary and 3rd party let's leave it out for now.

Set up: take a 1st level dragonwrought kobold expert and bestow a series of family curses on it and all its descendants so that they're born venerable and their Int is always 1. Train it until it reaches 4th level, hence becoming Colossal. At any point, start breeding it and its offsprings. Keep the dragonwrought kobolds, discard the others (dragonwrought eggs can be recognized right away, so you can smash extra eggs right away!).

Benefits: a plethora of Colossal slaves with animal-like intelligence that can be easily maneuvered and aren't nearly as threathening as any other Colossal creature should they try to flee and/or attack someone.

List of bad stuff you need to do to achieve this:
1) Enslave an entire lineage of sentient creatures.
2) Have said creatures mate and produce offsprings for your own personal gain.
3) Take advantage of a selected minority of members of the aforementioned lineage.
4) Kill the rest right after they're born or as soon as the egg they're in is laid.
5) Deprive the few survivors of their youth and anything in-between by having them be born in bodies of 200+ years old kobolds.
6) Strip them of almost every ounce of reason by forcibly setting their Intelligence score to 1.
7) Have them undergo the sudden change that is growing from Small size to Colossal without them having a clue of what's happening (see 6).
8) Ignore that you could move your goods more efficiently using teleportation spells of similar level of the spells used to do all the above, without experimenting on any other creature.
Bonus step if you use Advanced Bestiary) Breed an entire lineage of sentient creatures against their will with the intent of producing an entirely new template to maximise the efficiency of your evil scheme.

[Ellrin]

In D&D-land? Probably pretty well, given the number of evil spirits, mages, and whatnot out there that can mess with minds.

I mean, it still is pretty evil though, especially if you go with the "frame a third party" option.

Thiiis part is a bit of stretch. It's not impossible, but it seems pretty difficult to twist in such a way that it turns a deliberately softened punch into a permanently crippling blow.

Also not technically possible in the rules, but that would mostly matter if a PC is involved, which I agree with danielxcutter - I hope not! :smalleek:

Like I said, it was a deliberately simplified example. If I were actually going to set something like this up, I'd have everything in a much more controlled environment in order to get more of a guarantee of the desired outcome.

(And no, this hasn't happened to any PCs I know.)

[danielxcutter]

Use magically aged cursed 4th level dragonwrought kobold Experts as mules/slaves. Plus quadrupedal if you have access to Advanced Bestiary, but that's just to crank up their maximum load even more so since it's unnecessary and 3rd party let's leave it out for now.

Set up: take a 1st level dragonwrought kobold expert and bestow a series of family curses on it and all its descendants so that they're born venerable and their Int is always 1. Train it until it reaches 4th level, hence becoming Colossal. At any point, start breeding it and its offsprings. Keep the dragonwrought kobolds, discard the others (dragonwrought eggs can be recognized right away, so you can smash extra eggs right away!).

Benefits: a plethora of Colossal slaves with animal-like intelligence that can be easily maneuvered and aren't nearly as threathening as any other Colossal creature should they try to flee and/or attack someone.

List of bad stuff you need to do to achieve this:
1) Enslave an entire lineage of sentient creatures.
2) Have said creatures mate and produce offsprings for your own personal gain.
3) Take advantage of a selected minority of members of the aforementioned lineage.
4) Kill the rest right after they're born or as soon as the egg they're in is laid.
5) Deprive the few survivors of their youth and anything in-between by having them be born in bodies of 200+ years old kobolds.
6) Strip them of almost every ounce of reason by forcibly setting their Intelligence score to 1.
7) Have them undergo the sudden change that is growing from Small size to Colossal without them having a clue of what's happening (see 6).
8) Ignore that you could move your goods more efficiently using teleportation spells of similar level of the spells used to do all the above, without experimenting on any other creature.
Bonus step if you use Advanced Bestiary) Breed an entire lineage of sentient creatures against their will with the intent of producing an entirely new template to maximise the efficiency of your evil scheme.

Cheesy as a fondue, check. Evil as hell, double check.

[danielxcutter]

Like I said, it was a deliberately simplified example. If I were actually going to set something like this up, I'd have everything in a much more controlled environment in order to get more of a guarantee of the desired outcome.

(And no, this hasn't happened to any PCs I know.)

I dunno, it looks oddly specific to me... Just kidding, but I hope no one goes through this kind of cowdung.

[Red Fel]

Speaking of great minds... Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel.

Always entertaining to be summoned by a Paladin.

Alright, let's have a look at this one...


Yeah... what the title says. To be more specific, if it's 100% roleplay-based, I'm not interested. It has to use some spell, item, or otherwise. Also, using them in creative ways is encouraged. Love's Pain is simple - using the spell so the target can see their loved one is less simple. Get the idea?

Bah. Mechanics are just bags of numbers. You want mechanics, you get that stupid suit of armor that lets you take hostages and siphon off their life when you're attacked. Oh, boo hoo, if we fight the villain we'll hurt the hostages, and maybe some of them are children perhaps. Yawn. The mechanics are boring.

The real fun is the roleplay-based stuff. It's where you take something like Body of the Sun, a fairly straightforward spell that causes the caster to radiate Fire damage, and turn it into Body of the Fun (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17769136&postcount=35), a composite metamagicked arrangement that causes the victim to constantly explode with Sonic damage, demolishing everything around him and he has no idea why.

That is how you torment someone. That is Evil.


I feel like the greatest evil comes from forcing non-evil people to commit atrocities they never would on their own. Not through actual magical compulsion, but through simple blackmail, catch-22s, and clever planning. Take anything 'horrifically evil' you can think of, and add a degree of separation, and suddenly it's much worse.

I'll take it in the opposite direction. The greatest Evil is committed when you convince Good to allow it. It's like the saying, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Me is for Good men to do nothing." (I may be paraphrasing.)

Thus, it's not tricking Good people into committing acts of Evil - as we've already discussed, that's just turning them to Evil. No, it's convincing Good people that it would be completely acceptable for you to commit atrocities, and then doing so right in front of them. It's having them not only stand by and watch your crimes, but having them nod approvingly.

That is how you get away with it. That is how you corrupt Good. That is Evil.

[danielxcutter]

Always entertaining to be summoned by a Paladin.

Alright, let's have a look at this one...

I appreciate the visit.


Bah. Mechanics are just bags of numbers. You want mechanics, you get that stupid suit of armor that lets you take hostages and siphon off their life when you're attacked. Oh, boo hoo, if we fight the villain we'll hurt the hostages, and maybe some of them are children perhaps. Yawn. The mechanics are boring.

The real fun is the roleplay-based stuff. It's where you take something like Body of the Sun, a fairly straightforward spell that causes the caster to radiate Fire damage, and turn it into Body of the Fun (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17769136&postcount=35), a composite metamagicked arrangement that causes the victim to constantly explode with Sonic damage, demolishing everything around him and he has no idea why.

That is how you torment someone. That is Evil.

Yup, that's exactly on the lines of what I'm looking for. Combining normally harmless(or at least not very harmless) spells into devastating effects not even found in the BoVD. Perfect.


I'll take it in the opposite direction. The greatest Evil is committed when you convince Good to allow it. It's like the saying, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Me is for Good men to do nothing." (I may be paraphrasing.)

Thus, it's not tricking Good people into committing acts of Evil - as we've already discussed, that's just turning them to Evil. No, it's convincing Good people that it would be completely acceptable for you to commit atrocities, and then doing so right in front of them. It's having them not only stand by and watch your crimes, but having them nod approvingly.

That is how you get away with it. That is how you corrupt Good. That is Evil.

Ooooooooh, noteworthy. Easier said than done, but then what isn't?

[Someguy231]

I feel like the greatest evil comes from forcing non-evil people to commit atrocities they never would on their own. Not through actual magical compulsion, but through simple blackmail, catch-22s, and clever planning. Take anything 'horrifically evil' you can think of, and add a degree of separation, and suddenly it's much worse.

As someone who finds compulsions to be bull****, I actually like this idea.

[Buufreak]

Ooooooooh, noteworthy. Easier said than done, but then what isn't?

Not really, no. Anything is easy with preparation, skill, and knowledge. Knowledge is power. Evil is the fun we have with said power.

Lets take an act that is fairly accepted as bad or evil: torture. Now, anyone can torture someone else when they are tied up and in a dungeon. That's too damn easy, and not nearly as fun (although far more intimate, but that isn't our goal here). No, what we want to do is take someone, a pariah of some sort, and drag them into the middle of the street and torture them there. Why? Multiple reasons, of course. But I'm going to break this down a bit into what all will mesh together into a seed of decent.

Step 0.1: Pick a target. Make sure that you know exactly who you are about to torture. Preferably someone who is meddling, and needs to be made an example of anyway. But hey, this step can be easy as "some random Joe Schmoe off the street." It will take a little less planning that way, but entirely doable.

Step 0.2: Have help. This is, as far as I am concerned, the most important element. You will need a handful of bodies, to help you strong arm the guy, to help drag him through the streets, but most importantly, to help incite a mob mentality. Do you know mob mentality? It is generally the reason why I hate people. A person is fine, sure, but putting them in forum and allowing one to speak for many because they are sheep? Well... lets at the very least see that such an incident is manipulable.

Step 0.3-0.9: Planning. Like before, this can vary, and be about as much or as little as you want it to be. Get your setup on! Install a wrack, a noose, whatever. Do it ahead of time! Make people wonder what the hell is going on. Set up a course that will be dragging this SOB through the most populated areas during the busiest hours. Make sure the entire city knows something is going on. As they say, the world is a stage, so make it a real good show.

(finally) Step 1: Let the torture begin with a bit of exposition. You've already paraded the target around the city, now tell the people why you did it. Explain why you hate this dude, and why he is about to be tortured to death (or worse). Sew that seed that makes people think torture is okay.

Step 2: Remember those guys I said you needed? Sure you had a few that were the muscle and made things look official. You needed a few more, but less officially. Nothing says public torture being a fun group activity like handing off a knife and letting people come up and join. But people are "innately good" and some other bullcrap like that. So you have other hirelings that are hidden in the crowd, waiting for the cue to grab a blade and start tearing away. Now this sets a few examples, but the primary ones are that a) its okay to do this and b) proper ways to do this, so the person isn't just outright killed immediately. This is a show, after all, and we want more than just 1 act!

After you have a few of your own guys come up, mob mentality should have already kicked in. Rocks or rotten fruit should be flying, people screaming slurs and hisses, ya know, cliche things. But that's okay, because a cliche is well known, and people will act according to it. Because like I said, people in a group are sheep, and after being herd in the right direction, they can do just about anything.



... Or, ya know. Just shoot the guy in the middle of the street. Tons easier, far quicker, but where is the fun in that?

[flappeercraft]

Even more evil, go to the mayor of town along with many other important figures and cast Bestow Curse on them, then use one of the printed out extra curses on Dragon Magazine 345 IIRC and choose the one that makes everyone except the caster forget him even existing. Watch the chaos unfold and use it to start a regime and become the new lord of the area and do as you think seems fit. Or you can always start the wightapocalypse instead and control the first wight making you control basically all the wights.

[Buufreak]

Even more evil, go to the mayor of town along with many other important figures and cast Bestow Curse on them, then use one of the printed out extra curses on Dragon Magazine 345 IIRC and choose the one that makes everyone except the caster forget him even existing. Watch the chaos unfold and use it to start a regime and become the new lord of the area and do as you think seems fit. Or you can always start the wightapocalypse instead and control the first wight making you control basically all the wights.

We can call that curse bit Step 0.01.

Not a fan of wightapocalypse. Too cliche, even for me. I also have a general hatred for anything zombie associated, for a very similar reason, and because I can't stand to hear Rick yell for his son Coarol one more time.

[Psyren]

There are sort of two methods to the actual act itself: have them do it incredibly sloppily or in broad daylight so they get caught (let's see how well 'but I was dominated I swear!' flies in court, if it even gets to that), or have them do a bang-up job not incriminating themselves, and forge evidence implicating someone ELSE.

I would say that openly committing murder in broad daylight would probably count as "obviously self-destructive."

As for it flying in court - remember that detecting domination is fairly easy, as is determining that the victim is not lying.

Getting them to commit a more secretive killing, or while disguised, should work though (additional saving throw aside, for most people.)




Not a fan of wightapocalypse. Too cliche, even for me. I also have a general hatred for anything zombie associated, for a very similar reason, and because I can't stand to hear Rick yell for his son Coarol one more time.

Well, maybe he should STAY IN THE HOUSE

[Segev]

Now the son and paladin both have to live with the guilt of their actions. Maybe if one of them gets particularly depressed the BBEG can even suggest suicide.

Well, RAW I guess that last bit doesn't work even if they're considering it without the BBEG's help, due to the "obviously harmful" clause, but you get the point.

I'd use, instead, a suggestion on the son that he needs to talk his father out of suicide. Maybe with an added bestow curse to make him never able to spit out exactly what he means in emotional situations.


Honestly, we see just how evil that curse could be in a lot of TV and movie dramas. I'm being somewhat jocular here, but think about the harm that poor communication and inability to just tell somebody the plain facts leads to in fiction! Imagine that as an honest to goodness curse, so even when they realize the misunderstanding, they can't clear it up.



Now, on the subject of domination, I know Red Fel pooh-pooh'd the notion of the Armor of the Emperor because, woe is us, attacking the BBEG hurts these pathetic little urchins, but there IS something to be said for malignant (ab)use of heroic types' soft spot for the weak. I believe their preferred term for "weak" is "innocent," but let's be honest; it's less their innocence and more their inability to help themselves that stirs the heroes to self-righteous indignation.

For this, I bring up a line of spells I have brought up before, but bears mentioning here: Those enabled by the feat Mother Cyst.

This gives you 10 spells, one of each level except for 2nd, which gets two.

The "entry" spell is the 2nd level one, necrotic cyst, which implants a mildly painful but not too overtly harmless sac of undead flesh within a victim. This sac renders the victim vulnerable to the rest of the line.

My favorite use of these spells is to infect large swaths of a population whose environs you wish to manipulate, control, or secure. The other 2nd level spell is necrotic scrying, which works like scrying but requires no expensive foci nor components, but can only scry on people hosting necrotic cysts. You now have an easy means of keeping an eye on people at your leisure, monitoring your (eventual) minions remotely.

The next spell is the 7th level one: necrotic tumor. At 4th level is necrotic domination, which is nice, but necrotic tumor is more insidious. A necrotic-cyst-bearing victim who succeeds on his save is influenced as if he failed as save vs. suggestion. If he fails, he becomes permanently enslaved to you, and can never again disobey you in any way.

Send them about to do your bidding, controlling key positions in any power structure you like. Keep some around as minions and bodyguards; sure, the whole Armor of the Emperor thing is passé, but if you can toss it in there, why not?

But the real reason to keep these "bodyguards" is not because you really expect the heroes to be daunted. They'll find some "third option" or they'll man up and kill the victims, blaming you for putting the bodies they're destroying there to fuel their self-righteous ire. No, the real reason is the 6th level spell necrotic eruption. Target a bearer of a necrotic cyst. They take 1d6/CL damage, capped at 15d6, Fortitude save for half. You don't really care about that; you're going to use this on somebody who'll die from even a successful save. (Kids are marvelous for this.) Any victim who dies of this spell explodes in a fireball-like radius, inflicting CL d6 (max 15), reflex save for half, damage on everybody in that radius. And anybody who takes damage must make a fortitude save (at the higher level DC, I might add, of a 6th level spell) or also be afflicted with a necrotic cyst. Thus infecting those heroes with just what you need to start using this line on them.

Now, of course, the important thing with any proper evil is presentation: These won't be bodyguards charging the heroes to try to bring them (ineffectually) down. No, no.

These will be people you've ordered to beg the heroes to help them escape. Again, small children and comely maidens work well for this. They cling to the heroes, they beg them for protection. They beg them to get them out. And, when they're in place, when the heroes are about to stand between your obvious threats and your obvious victims, they don't even have to pull a knife. You just cast necrotic eruption and they EXPLODE. The heroes won't see it coming, that first time.

And after that, they'll have to ask themselves not just if they CAN help anybody they find...but if trying to will get THEM exploded.



Now, a spell that seems obvious for its evil uses that works well with this is magic jar. You're not going to do anything particularly special or fancy with this, but make sure to encounter the party while using it. You want to be possessing a minion you'll use as a patsy, just in case they get lucky and kill it. Pick out their big, strong, low-will-save allies, and be ready to hop into them when convenient. Fighting a body-hopping enemy that can use their biggest pool of hp against them is of immense demoralizing value, almost as powerful as watching those they hoped to rescue be turned into suicide bombs they're powerless to protect. Combine the two, and most will be so horrified that they break. Those who don't are still prone now to foolish and self-defeating bouts of angry action. Take advantage of this. If they're infected with necrotic cysts, remember that a successful save against necrotic tumor lets you implant a suggestion.





Additionally, lower-level potential evil. Those who follow necromancy in 3.5 are all but certainly aware of a delightful form of undead known as a Slaymate. These Small undead arise from the corpses of children who died due to a betrayal by a caregiver. They also have a Pale Aura (Su) ability which makes necromancy spells prepared within it get metamagic lowered by a level. Gather three for free Chain Spell metamagic; I'm fond of putting it on command undead.

The trouble is, there's no spell to make them. One could argue for create undead, but it's definitely a negotiation with the DM, and frankly, who wants to wait that long? You can use Knowledge(religion) and Gather Information (if you happen to have it and a Charisma score) to try to find one or more. And command undead works quite well, as long as you'll do at least a minimal pretense of taking the little tykes in. Between magic and manipulating their feelings of abandonment to build a trust and dependence on your approval, you can obtain one or more of these handy metamagic-reducing minions.

Though that still relies on finding naturally-occurring ones through hard work and investigation. You obviously would prefer to make them.

Start a minor philanthropic effort to fund the burial of dispossessed or unidentified orphans, and make sure the graveyard you use is unhallowed ground. A hidden altar to a death god with a permanent desecration effect is ideal, but don't get too hung up on it if you can't afford it; we're looking at low level efforts here. Then, in another guise or through back channels, offer poor families funds if they'll just...abandon a small child somewhere. It's important these desperate families know they're probably leaving their child to a tragic fate - the kids must be betrayed by their guardian. Alternatively, you could try to become their guardian, and commit the betrayal, yourself, but that makes the manipulation far more reliant on never slipping on a command undead lest they turn on you for your crime. You prefer to be their "savior."

You will then arrange for the corpses of those kids who have died of exposure (or worse) to be picked up by your philanthropic effort and buried in your accursed cemetery. At least SOME will spontaneously arise, eventually, as Slaymates.




Finally, in a non-necromantic vein, a straightforward combination of True Mind Switch and being a Thrallherd can guarantee you immortality: Have competitions and programs in your Believers to make them take exquisite care of themselves and maximize their strength, stamina, health, and (because of course a demigod on earth is vain) beauty, and compete to be your favored heir. When your current body is too old, fat, or just plain wasted by the decadent life you lead, have an official ceremony to pass your mantle to your heir, and take his body. As your believer, he'll LET you have it. Whether you generously let him live out the rest of your old body's life, or shove him into a vat of Quintessence to keep him from dying until you switch bodies again (after disposing of the husk with your last donor in it that was in that vat before him), is up to you.

[Hiro Quester]

Thus, it's not tricking Good people into committing acts of Evil - as we've already discussed, that's just turning them to Evil. No, it's convincing Good people that it would be completely acceptable for you to commit atrocities, and then doing so right in front of them. It's having them not only stand by and watch your crimes, but having them nod approvingly.

That is how you get away with it. That is how you corrupt Good. That is Evil.

It's not as difficult achieve do as one might suppose.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" can achieve this. When players are aligned against major evil, they might have to align with other (less, or differently) evil forces to stop the Big Bad.

Good players having to cozy up to evil characters, because they can help to oppose the Big Bad, is tearing my group, and my character and that of one other group member, right now.

In our last game, for example, we had to return a member of an evil group back to her evil succubus former mistress, for punishment, in order to get the evil succubus's help opposing a super-powerful demon.

So the two good characters in our group found themselves conflicted in helping to capture this (potentially redeemed) wayward former servant and return her to be flayed to pieces.

Not good. Not at all. But ostensibly done in the service of resisting a greater evil.

My good druid is going to have to atone for a lot once the mission is completed.

[danielxcutter]

-snip-

:smalleek:

Oookaaay, that's scary. I hope this doesn't stem from experience.


I'd use, instead, a suggestion on the son that he needs to talk his father out of suicide. Maybe with an added bestow curse to make him never able to spit out exactly what he means in emotional situations.


Honestly, we see just how evil that curse could be in a lot of TV and movie dramas. I'm being somewhat jocular here, but think about the harm that poor communication and inability to just tell somebody the plain facts leads to in fiction! Imagine that as an honest to goodness curse, so even when they realize the misunderstanding, they can't clear it up.

Forbidden Speech(a Corrupt spell) may help with that. It prevents the target from speaking about a specific topic, so use it twice to prevent the son from saying that he's under Forbidden Speech.


-long, evil plan-

Yikes, that's super nasty. Hope your players never went through that. :eek:


Now, a spell that seems obvious for its evil uses that works well with this is magic jar. You're not going to do anything particularly special or fancy with this, but make sure to encounter the party while using it. You want to be possessing a minion you'll use as a patsy, just in case they get lucky and kill it. Pick out their big, strong, low-will-save allies, and be ready to hop into them when convenient. Fighting a body-hopping enemy that can use their biggest pool of hp against them is of immense demoralizing value, almost as powerful as watching those they hoped to rescue be turned into suicide bombs they're powerless to protect. Combine the two, and most will be so horrified that they break. Those who don't are still prone now to foolish and self-defeating bouts of angry action. Take advantage of this. If they're infected with necrotic cysts, remember that a successful save against necrotic tumor lets you implant a suggestion.

...Just how much do your players have to tick you off to do both of these? Oh my.




Additionally, lower-level potential evil. Those who follow necromancy in 3.5 are all but certainly aware of a delightful form of undead known as a Slaymate. These Small undead arise from the corpses of children who died due to a betrayal by a caregiver. They also have a Pale Aura (Su) ability which makes necromancy spells prepared within it get metamagic lowered by a level. Gather three for free Chain Spell metamagic; I'm fond of putting it on command undead.

The trouble is, there's no spell to make them. One could argue for create undead, but it's definitely a negotiation with the DM, and frankly, who wants to wait that long? You can use Knowledge(religion) and Gather Information (if you happen to have it and a Charisma score) to try to find one or more. And command undead works quite well, as long as you'll do at least a minimal pretense of taking the little tykes in. Between magic and manipulating their feelings of abandonment to build a trust and dependence on your approval, you can obtain one or more of these handy metamagic-reducing minions.

Though that still relies on finding naturally-occurring ones through hard work and investigation. You obviously would prefer to make them.

Start a minor philanthropic effort to fund the burial of dispossessed or unidentified orphans, and make sure the graveyard you use is unhallowed ground. A hidden altar to a death god with a permanent desecration effect is ideal, but don't get too hung up on it if you can't afford it; we're looking at low level efforts here. Then, in another guise or through back channels, offer poor families funds if they'll just...abandon a small child somewhere. It's important these desperate families know they're probably leaving their child to a tragic fate - the kids must be betrayed by their guardian. Alternatively, you could try to become their guardian, and commit the betrayal, yourself, but that makes the manipulation far more reliant on never slipping on a command undead lest they turn on you for your crime. You prefer to be their "savior."

You will then arrange for the corpses of those kids who have died of exposure (or worse) to be picked up by your philanthropic effort and buried in your accursed cemetery. At least SOME will spontaneously arise, eventually, as Slaymates.

Slightly less flashy, but hey, low level. Useful.


Finally, in a non-necromantic vein, a straightforward combination of True Mind Switch and being a Thrallherd can guarantee you immortality: Have competitions and programs in your Believers to make them take exquisite care of themselves and maximize their strength, stamina, health, and (because of course a demigod on earth is vain) beauty, and compete to be your favored heir. When your current body is too old, fat, or just plain wasted by the decadent life you lead, have an official ceremony to pass your mantle to your heir, and take his body. As your believer, he'll LET you have it. Whether you generously let him live out the rest of your old body's life, or shove him into a vat of Quintessence to keep him from dying until you switch bodies again (after disposing of the husk with your last donor in it that was in that vat before him), is up to you.


Hrm... cliche, but excellent.

[Buufreak]

:smalleek:

Oookaaay, that's scary. I hope this doesn't stem from experience.



I mean, how is this different from the Salem Witch Trials? How is it different from The Crusades? The Spanish Inquisition? Our own history is filled with stories exactly like this, only carried out on grander scales. I'm trying to make a pariah and set an example. They had bigger dreams. The main difference is scale, but its all the same. And when you've been around for ~975 years, you see plenty of silly humans doing silly human things.

[danielxcutter]

I mean, how is this different from the Salem Witch Trials? How is it different from The Crusades? The Spanish Inquisition? Our own history is filled with stories exactly like this, only carried out on grander scales. I'm trying to make a pariah and set an example. They had bigger dreams. The main difference is scale, but its all the same. And when you've been around for ~975 years, you see plenty of silly humans doing silly human things.

I get your point, but I meant personal experience. Either as a player, a DM, or... well...

[atemu1234]

Now, on the subject of domination, I know Red Fel pooh-pooh'd the notion of the Armor of the Emperor because, woe is us, attacking the BBEG hurts these pathetic little urchins, but there IS something to be said for malignant (ab)use of heroic types' soft spot for the weak. I believe their preferred term for "weak" is "innocent," but let's be honest; it's less their innocence and more their inability to help themselves that stirs the heroes to self-righteous indignation.

For this, I bring up a line of spells I have brought up before, but bears mentioning here: Those enabled by the feat Mother Cyst.

This gives you 10 spells, one of each level except for 2nd, which gets two.

The "entry" spell is the 2nd level one, necrotic cyst, which implants a mildly painful but not too overtly harmless sac of undead flesh within a victim. This sac renders the victim vulnerable to the rest of the line.

My favorite use of these spells is to infect large swaths of a population whose environs you wish to manipulate, control, or secure. The other 2nd level spell is necrotic scrying, which works like scrying but requires no expensive foci nor components, but can only scry on people hosting necrotic cysts. You now have an easy means of keeping an eye on people at your leisure, monitoring your (eventual) minions remotely.

The next spell is the 7th level one: necrotic tumor. At 4th level is necrotic domination, which is nice, but necrotic tumor is more insidious. A necrotic-cyst-bearing victim who succeeds on his save is influenced as if he failed as save vs. suggestion. If he fails, he becomes permanently enslaved to you, and can never again disobey you in any way.

Send them about to do your bidding, controlling key positions in any power structure you like. Keep some around as minions and bodyguards; sure, the whole Armor of the Emperor thing is passé, but if you can toss it in there, why not?

But the real reason to keep these "bodyguards" is not because you really expect the heroes to be daunted. They'll find some "third option" or they'll man up and kill the victims, blaming you for putting the bodies they're destroying there to fuel their self-righteous ire. No, the real reason is the 6th level spell necrotic eruption. Target a bearer of a necrotic cyst. They take 1d6/CL damage, capped at 15d6, Fortitude save for half. You don't really care about that; you're going to use this on somebody who'll die from even a successful save. (Kids are marvelous for this.) Any victim who dies of this spell explodes in a fireball-like radius, inflicting CL d6 (max 15), reflex save for half, damage on everybody in that radius. And anybody who takes damage must make a fortitude save (at the higher level DC, I might add, of a 6th level spell) or also be afflicted with a necrotic cyst. Thus infecting those heroes with just what you need to start using this line on them.

Now, of course, the important thing with any proper evil is presentation: These won't be bodyguards charging the heroes to try to bring them (ineffectually) down. No, no.

These will be people you've ordered to beg the heroes to help them escape. Again, small children and comely maidens work well for this. They cling to the heroes, they beg them for protection. They beg them to get them out. And, when they're in place, when the heroes are about to stand between your obvious threats and your obvious victims, they don't even have to pull a knife. You just cast necrotic eruption and they EXPLODE. The heroes won't see it coming, that first time.

And after that, they'll have to ask themselves not just if they CAN help anybody they find...but if trying to will get THEM exploded.



Now, a spell that seems obvious for its evil uses that works well with this is magic jar. You're not going to do anything particularly special or fancy with this, but make sure to encounter the party while using it. You want to be possessing a minion you'll use as a patsy, just in case they get lucky and kill it. Pick out their big, strong, low-will-save allies, and be ready to hop into them when convenient. Fighting a body-hopping enemy that can use their biggest pool of hp against them is of immense demoralizing value, almost as powerful as watching those they hoped to rescue be turned into suicide bombs they're powerless to protect. Combine the two, and most will be so horrified that they break. Those who don't are still prone now to foolish and self-defeating bouts of angry action. Take advantage of this. If they're infected with necrotic cysts, remember that a successful save against necrotic tumor lets you implant a suggestion.

I rather like this idea simply because I love the Mother Cyst line.


Additionally, lower-level potential evil. Those who follow necromancy in 3.5 are all but certainly aware of a delightful form of undead known as a Slaymate. These Small undead arise from the corpses of children who died due to a betrayal by a caregiver. They also have a Pale Aura (Su) ability which makes necromancy spells prepared within it get metamagic lowered by a level. Gather three for free Chain Spell metamagic; I'm fond of putting it on command undead.

The trouble is, there's no spell to make them. One could argue for create undead, but it's definitely a negotiation with the DM, and frankly, who wants to wait that long? You can use Knowledge(religion) and Gather Information (if you happen to have it and a Charisma score) to try to find one or more. And command undead works quite well, as long as you'll do at least a minimal pretense of taking the little tykes in. Between magic and manipulating their feelings of abandonment to build a trust and dependence on your approval, you can obtain one or more of these handy metamagic-reducing minions.

Though that still relies on finding naturally-occurring ones through hard work and investigation. You obviously would prefer to make them.

Start a minor philanthropic effort to fund the burial of dispossessed or unidentified orphans, and make sure the graveyard you use is unhallowed ground. A hidden altar to a death god with a permanent desecration effect is ideal, but don't get too hung up on it if you can't afford it; we're looking at low level efforts here. Then, in another guise or through back channels, offer poor families funds if they'll just...abandon a small child somewhere. It's important these desperate families know they're probably leaving their child to a tragic fate - the kids must be betrayed by their guardian. Alternatively, you could try to become their guardian, and commit the betrayal, yourself, but that makes the manipulation far more reliant on never slipping on a command undead lest they turn on you for your crime. You prefer to be their "savior."

You will then arrange for the corpses of those kids who have died of exposure (or worse) to be picked up by your philanthropic effort and buried in your accursed cemetery. At least SOME will spontaneously arise, eventually, as Slaymates.

I'm fairly certain that multiple Slaymates do not stack. Though if you could mass produce them, selling them to starting Necromancers would surely be worth a pretty copper piece.


Finally, in a non-necromantic vein, a straightforward combination of True Mind Switch and being a Thrallherd can guarantee you immortality: Have competitions and programs in your Believers to make them take exquisite care of themselves and maximize their strength, stamina, health, and (because of course a demigod on earth is vain) beauty, and compete to be your favored heir. When your current body is too old, fat, or just plain wasted by the decadent life you lead, have an official ceremony to pass your mantle to your heir, and take his body. As your believer, he'll LET you have it. Whether you generously let him live out the rest of your old body's life, or shove him into a vat of Quintessence to keep him from dying until you switch bodies again (after disposing of the husk with your last donor in it that was in that vat before him), is up to you.

I prefer, in this vein, to use Mind Seed. Maybe it's just because I get a sick kick out of slowly making it so that their mind becomes mine. The level loss is a bit of a bite, but it makes it so that later a True Mind Switch might be more effective. Or, you could always use Fusion + Astral Seed to make yourself a little bit more effective.

[Segev]

I know there is argument and debate over Pale Aura stacking, but I don't personally see why it wouldn't, despite following the arguments. I could be biased by desperately wanting to be able to cast chain command undead with the spell slot granted by Precocious Apprentice, though.

I've never run any of this, as DM or player, though I do hope to play Witt some of it one day.

As to Mind Seed, I don't like it for this purpose because the victim isn't you; he just thinks he is. Worse, he likely becomes a rival. It works if you need to subvert someone, but as an immortality gambit, it leaves something to be desired.

[Buufreak]

I get your point, but I meant personal experience. Either as a player, a DM, or... well...


And when you've been around for ~975 years, you see plenty of silly humans doing silly human things.

Quoting for emphasis.

[MintyThe1st]

The book of vile darkness has many spells of pure and irrevocable evil.

Apocalypse from the sky is a crowd favorite, and is even referenced in Elder Evils as a plausable way to attract Atropus, the afterbirth of the universe, to your setting.

[danielxcutter]

Quoting for emphasis.
Well, I wasn't expecting that... BUT NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISTION!

End my life.

[atemu1234]

I'm personally a fan of torture of a more mental variety. Any shmuck can stab someone with a sword or blast them apart with a fireball.

Use Mind Rape to make them murder their family. Use Hold Person so they can watch you torture their kids to death. Tie them up and throw them through a gate into the Nine Hells, where they won't just be killed, but they'll be killed, have their souls trapped, and be tortured for an eternity.

[Segev]

I suppose if you want to be evil just to be cruel, you could planar bind a succubus and tell her to seduce the guy, and then make the affair public (or at least reveal it to his wife).

[atemu1234]

I suppose if you want to be evil just to be cruel, you could planar bind a succubus and tell her to seduce the guy, and then make the affair public (or at least reveal it to his wife).

I mean, even with Charm it's still his fault if he cheats on her. It's not like the wording of the spell forces him to or anything.

[Segev]

Her suggestions might. Also, with the Diplomacy and Bluff she can hit him with, it might be his fault, but he's still likely to give in despite his prior intentions.

Edit: I should mention that I'm assuming the target of this is an NPC, since PCs would only be vulnerable to the magical compulsion. Oh, and with charm, an opposed Charisma check could still make it effectively a compulsion. But if you're using this stuff against PCs, don't involve sex if their players don't want to. It's just not going to be fun.

[Ellrin]

I suppose if you want to be evil just to be cruel, you could planar bind a succubus and tell her to seduce the guy, and then make the affair public (or at least reveal it to his wife).

Better yet, have the succubus seduce his wife, and then make that affair public.

[danielxcutter]

Better yet, have the succubus seduce his wife, and then make that affair public.

That's kinda funny, and also pretty evil. Also petty.

[Buufreak]

End my life.

I'm not sure how to take this line. Is it sarcastic? If so, please don't joke in that manner. Is it serious? If so, I'm terribly sorry you feel that way, and as a suicide survivor, I am willing to be here for you in a time of need.

[Ellrin]

That's kinda funny, and also pretty evil. Also petty.

Ulimately the only difference between evil and pettiness is scale.

[yellowrocket]

Ulimately the only difference between evil and pettiness is scale.

Is not the most effective evil the pettiness that becomes all consuming evil because of its original lack of scale?

Leaving just enough of somethings for it to look like there's enough, but having it be just short. That couple second delay that begins to compound in to an entire bad day because things happened where you shouldn't have been with out that delay.

Having this be your life day in a d day out, just little things that degrade relationships between people. Add in minor blessings of a financial, or physical nature to their rival.

There's an illness going around that keeps people laid up for 2 days of you get it. They're out for over a week and their rival doesn't get sick at all, and actually seems healthier.

That's the stuff that drives individuals to commit evil on their own. And what betterm evil than to do nothing significant than to cause an otherwise good person to commit evil of their own making?

You just have to pick someone powerful enough that the evil they commit os of a significant scale

[danielxcutter]

I'm not sure how to take this line. Is it sarcastic? If so, please don't joke in that manner. Is it serious? If so, I'm terribly sorry you feel that way, and as a suicide survivor, I am willing to be here for you in a time of need.

Eh, no, sorry about that. I was just poking fun at myself for using such an overused meme. But considering that I'm a survivor too, that was kinda hypocritical, I guess, even if I'm kinda depressed a bit. Thanks anyways, I'll remember.

[Segev]

While arguably all pettiness is at least mildly evil, certainly not all evil is nor stems from pettiness.

Most of my examples in my first post in this thread are about power-acquisition and demoralizing foes. They're not petty motives.

[icefractal]

In the realm of non-petty evil, in order to get the most bang for your buck you want evil at a societal level (http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-04).
Most D&D settings don’t have a unified enough economic system for that particular plan to work, but there are still a lot of possibilities.

For example, let’s make a creature.
1) We’ll start with something that can possess / live inside people, like the Tsochar for instance. It’s fine if the host is actually dead, as long as the creature can accurately imitate them.
2) Then we put it in deep-cover mode. Either pick one where the “host” is still in control and doesn’t know about the possession, or simply make the creature think that it is the host. To the point where it will sooner be killed than reveal otherwise.
3) We also need to make it as undetectable as possible without killing the host. Beyond what a small town could likely manage, at least.
4) Then, the important part - the creature needs the ability to “hulk out” and become a dangerous monster. Again, beyond what a small town could handle is the target. This should include some ability to escape captivity, so that locking people up is not a solution.
5) Every night, the creature has an X% (maybe 10%) chance to ‘wake up’ and go on a rampage.

So now we’ve created a situation where killing strangers, or even people you know who are acting at all oddly, is a reasonable course of action. And can be claimed as an excuse by anyone who just wanted someone else dead. Ideally you have some method of spreading this parasite in an unnoticed way, like having ethereal stalkers that plant them in sleeping people. Spread some of these around, make sure people know about them, and it’ll be hard to keep society from breaking down completely.

For creating these things, we’re mostly in the realm of home-brew, but there are a couple ways in the rules:
1) The Epic spell “Origin of Species”.
2) Fusion + Astral Seed cheese, then Simulacrum / Ice Assassin to make more.

[ATHATH]

In the realm of non-petty evil, in order to get the most bang for your buck you want evil at a societal level (http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-04).
Most D&D settings don’t have a unified enough economic system for that particular plan to work, but there are still a lot of possibilities.

For example, let’s make a creature.
1) We’ll start with something that can possess / live inside people, like the Tsochar for instance. It’s fine if the host is actually dead, as long as the creature can accurately imitate them.
2) Then we put it in deep-cover mode. Either pick one where the “host” is still in control and doesn’t know about the possession, or simply make the creature think that it is the host. To the point where it will sooner be killed than reveal otherwise.
3) We also need to make it as undetectable as possible without killing the host. Beyond what a small town could likely manage, at least.
4) Then, the important part - the creature needs the ability to “hulk out” and become a dangerous monster. Again, beyond what a small town could handle is the target. This should include some ability to escape captivity, so that locking people up is not a solution.
5) Every night, the creature has an X% (maybe 10%) chance to ‘wake up’ and go on a rampage.

So now we’ve created a situation where killing strangers, or even people you know who are acting at all oddly, is a reasonable course of action. And can be claimed as an excuse by anyone who just wanted someone else dead. Ideally you have some method of spreading this parasite in an unnoticed way, like having ethereal stalkers that plant them in sleeping people. Spread some of these around, make sure people know about them, and it’ll be hard to keep society from breaking down completely.

For creating these things, we’re mostly in the realm of home-brew, but there are a couple ways in the rules:
1) The Epic spell “Origin of Species”.
2) Fusion + Astral Seed cheese, then Simulacrum / Ice Assassin to make more.
The Necrotic Cyst line might work well for this.

[Aristocracy]

Step 1: Cast Cause Disease onto some poor hapless creature (Rat, Cat, whatever)
Step 2: Toss it into the village water well
Step 3: Go out on an Adventure!
Step 4: Come back to town and remove the disease from the inhabitants-- all in the name of your evil patron deity.

Should be good for a couple of conversions at least!

[ATHATH]

Step 1: Cast Cause Disease onto some poor hapless creature (Rat, Cat, whatever)
Step 2: Toss it into the village water well
Step 3: Go out on an Adventure!
Step 4: Come back to town and remove the disease from the inhabitants-- all in the name of your evil patron deity.

Should be good for a couple of conversions at least!
Unless, of course, some Cleric of another diety (or another Cleric of the same deity, depending on your religion) comes along and cures them first.

[Graysire]

Act as the benevolent doctor a town, over time cast Addiction on a ton of the inhabitants addicting them to Liquid Pain, use the pain of their withdrawals to fuel making Liquid Pain
Craft Contingent Spells Animate Dead for skeletons for when the commoners die
Keep most of the town in a constant state of withdrawal, when adventurers and heroes come to the town, implicate them as having tons of Liquid Pain

Desperate for freedom from their torment and for the bliss granted by Liquid Pain, they'll be mobbed by weakened, nearly skeletal, but innocent civilians who are tearing at them(perhaps using well placed Suggestion to inspire a mob mentality of the adventurers being to selfish to hand over the Liquid Pain, their confusion is actually just denying what is so desperately craved)

If any commoners are accidentally slain, which they very well might, they come back as a skeleton, potentially without even falling, just the skin sloughing off

Lastly throw in an Avascular Mass in there(whether contingent to keep your involvement secret or not is unimportant) so that the heroes can't effectively get out

It's disgusting and horrific, perfect for mentally scarring the brave adventurers!

Alternatively, a piece of wondrous architecture that casts Breath of Life, in the same room as wondrous architecture casting Death by Thorns, so they writhe in pain as they die to thorns, get resurrected, rinse repeat, effective and scary torture.

[Calthropstu]

Mind switch.

Kill, rape, kick puppies. Undo mind switch.

Then use alter memories to plant the memories of doing all those things into the subject... so he thinks he actually did all of those things.

[Shackel]

For when you need to ruin one person in particular, use Modify Memory numerous times(very nice if you have Still/Silent Spell) on them to change their memories of simple things. Gaslight them, make them feel paranoid. Then begin painting targets: their wife or friend being caught sneaking away or committing minor crimes. Maybe they spotted a potent poison in their kitchen but now cannot see it at all. Just keep pushing them, slowly but surely, until their mind finally breaks under the pressure.

Also on that line of thought is to keep an eye on someone until you can identify their usual goals(or perhaps use some form of thought reading during this process) of the day, kidnap them, and drop them into some dark room and/or cavern covered in countless illusions of his former life, using disguises over undead and other horrid creatures. It's only a matter of time before he will see through one of them. Then another. And another. And just when they think they've figured it out, knock them unconscious through your preferred method of choice. Drop them back into reality.

Replacing key loved ones with disguised undead or other more intelligent bound/allied/summoned horrific creatures can work in any situation, too. Especially if with copious uses of Mindrape/Modify Memory and similar means, you align the loved ones' memories with the creature's, then swap them once the target figures it out.

Bestow Curse of course has many uses, but my favorite would be to not have the entire Int penalty hit at once. Modify it to happen slowly, perhaps -1 Int every two days, or for long term damage, two weeks, even, until it hits the full penalty. What is more frightening than knowing that you're losing your intelligence slowly but surely? Nothing says you don't have memory of when you were smarter. It applies to other mental stats, too: playboy villager? -1 Cha every two days: now he must suffer through slowly not knowing what to say in situations, slowly losing his touch.

[Ellrin]

It applies to other mental stats, too: playboy villager? -1 Cha every two days: now he must suffer through slowly not knowing what to say in situations, slowly losing his touch.

Gotta be honest, here, that sounds more like the premise for an awkward romcom.

[danielxcutter]

Gotta be honest, here, that sounds more like the premise for an awkward romcom.

...er, a what?

[Ellrin]

...er, a what?

Romantic comedy.

[danielxcutter]

Romantic comedy.

...I dunno, still looks a bit too tragic for that.

[Ellrin]

...I dunno, still looks a bit too tragic for that.


It's just the premise; obviously by the end of the story the playboy, now reformed and in love with his soulmate, has the curse lifted and they live happily ever after.

[Mordaedil]

...I dunno, still looks a bit too tragic for that.

Comedy and tragedy are the same, except that comedy has no sympathy for the subject.

[Dappershire]

There is always the classic custom Bestow Curse which basically is anything you can imagine that your DM will let you get away with

While it doesn't measure up to the evil in these pages, I think a moment to appreciate the casual evil is in order. You have a spellcaster, they still have some spell slots left and its nearing day end. Well, I'll just start handing curses off to random townsmen. Otherwise all that study this morning was a waste.
And I know the compulsion spells aren't popular, but I've always seen them as casual evil. I still remember reading a book a couple decades back, Moonshae novel from FR. Some fat, greasy Banite cleric, eating drumsticks by the dozen in some pleasant inn. Obviously disgusted barmaid asking if he needed anything else. He casts Charm and says that yes, yes he does. I'm sure we've all had high Charisma bards pulling off the same thing, but it just struck me as a child, how evil such a small spell was.

[danielxcutter]

While it doesn't measure up to the evil in these pages, I think a moment to appreciate the casual evil is in order. You have a spellcaster, they still have some spell slots left and its nearing day end. Well, I'll just start handing curses off to random townsmen. Otherwise all that study this morning was a waste.
And I know the compulsion spells aren't popular, but I've always seen them as casual evil. I still remember reading a book a couple decades back, Moonshae novel from FR. Some fat, greasy Banite cleric, eating drumsticks by the dozen in some pleasant inn. Obviously disgusted barmaid asking if he needed anything else. He casts Charm and says that yes, yes he does. I'm sure we've all had high Charisma bards pulling off the same thing, but it just struck me as a child, how evil such a small spell was.

That's not super evil in and of itself, but many small bits of evil like that tend to build up.

[Segev]

I was going to say that an enchantment-usin wizard doesn't even need a passable Charisma, but without one, they might get the barmaid to be merely disgusted by their good friend's gross behavior, but not to sleep with him. That would take the opposed Charisma check.

[Mystia]

One of my personal favorite Evil things is to use the Control Body power to make someone kill their allies and then suicide (or not).

It's far better than any mind control spell, because the subject is actually still fully conscious, and if you don't prevent him from doing so, he can still talk. You're just using telekinesis to use his body as a puppet. :smallsmile:

The one time this has worked out in the most spectacular fashion, was when the party ambushed a squad of soldiers from an opposing faction, and I used Control Body on the commanding officer and succeeded. As his underlings asked for orders, he just fell to the ground as if crying and defeated, then put a blade to his neck. Instant morale drop!

[Darrin]

This is the most evil thing I have ever seen in RPGs:


http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/files/Errata_ToB.zip

[Segev]

This is probably more of a single-NPC (or ambitious PC) plot than it is a standard "evil thing to do," but I was contemplating how to approach this without magic, and I settled on this for either a cha-focused rogue or a bard.

Half-orc, with maxed out Cha. This is important, despite the racial Cha penalty. You're going to be maintaining a minimum of 3 identities: one human, one orc, and one half-orc.

The half-orc identity doesn't necessarily require Disguise, though you can use it if you want the extra layer of deniability. This one is going a classic route: join the underworld in a major town or small city.

The human identity takes up residence in the same city, and establishes himself as a well-off commoner who performs for a living, and maybe is seeking a patron. Play up the minstrel angle.

The orc identity ventures out into the wilderness and finds either a powerful orc tribe or seeks several of them in the region, and becomes an itinerant trader and fence for them.

Skills to max out include Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Perform (Singing) and Perform Oratory, and Craft (Ballad).

Your goal is to bill yourself as a trader and fence to the orcs, taking goods they get from raids and trading them for stuff the orcs actually can use. Use this as your "in," and build up friendships. You'll go back to the underworld and set things up so they can fence the goods the orcs sell to you for far more than the trinkets you traded to the orcs.

Meanwhile, work your way into the good graces of the power structure. The leaders should like and trust you. When things go well, make sure to publicly give them credit, while carefully letting slip just enough privately to mid-rank types and gossip-mongers that the story - without you being the known cause - gets around that it was YOU who made the major wins happen. When things go poorly, do the reverse; publicly defend the leaders and let the rumor mill handle blaming them and making you look like a good and loyal minion.

Pay close attention to the kind of person the leader is (or are, if there's more than one important one). If they're the sort whose ego is massaged by being feared and known, your human persona will play songs aggrandizing his villainy, subtly encouraging fear of him but, at the same time, making him the target for law enforcement efforts. If, on the other hand, he's the sort who enjoys being a shadow power who is unknown, take the opportunity to play up your half-orc crook's villainy as a dashing rogue (albeit one who must be defeated) that, while not the leader of the underworld, is a major face of it. Either way, you want to make it so that, should anything happen to the underworld leader, you're the go-to guy that the underworld trusts. Do it right, and the leader will have made you his right-hand second-in-command anyway, because your Diplomacy and Bluff ensure he trusts you implicitly.

Meanwhile, you should have your human guise be an adventurer - either alone or in a party - that occasionally clashes with both the nefarious underworld of organized crime and the raiding bandits on in the wilderness outside. In the cultures common to the times D&D simulates, self-aggrandizement is usually acceptable. So play up your party's achievements.

You don't even have to lie in your ballads: when your party wins against the underworld, play it up. When they lose, play up the dastardliness of your half-orc persona (or of the underworld leader). Make yourselves out to be heroes, of course, but sometimes the bad guys are just that fiendish and cheat that hard.

Ideally, your songs and stories should appeal to the law-abiding in the vein of pulp "letters home" articles and stories from the late 1800s, and should appeal to the criminal element as an aggrandizement of their successes.

You're also working your magic with one or more orc and goblin tribes. Being the go-to fence for their bandit goods gives you plenty of excuse with the underworld for going out to meet them. As long as your party is not constantly together, you can find personal time away from them, too. Again, lots and lots of Diplomacy should earn you trust and friendship. And eventually, you can help them plan raids that are more lucrative in terms of what you can fence for them, and give them better tools and weapons and gear. Play multiple tribes against each other if they're not inclined to work together, and in any event, you can start maneuvering to be their strategist and demagogue. Increase their aggressiveness and effectiveness against the town, and increase what they steal so you can bring it back to the underworld.

Meanwhile, this increases the demand for your party's heroic services. If you can, start angling for that patron and try to work your way into the rulers' good graces. Diplomacy, again and again, until the leadership of the town is Helpful towards you and trusts you implicitly.

Now, no matter who wins in this three way conflict, you're coming out on top. If anything happens to one persona, be ready to quick-change a disguise out so that you can be "rescued" by the group that's caught them out, rather than caught as the nefarious one.

[atemu1234]

Act as the benevolent doctor a town, over time cast Addiction on a ton of the inhabitants addicting them to Liquid Pain, use the pain of their withdrawals to fuel making Liquid Pain
Craft Contingent Spells Animate Dead for skeletons for when the commoners die
Keep most of the town in a constant state of withdrawal, when adventurers and heroes come to the town, implicate them as having tons of Liquid Pain

Desperate for freedom from their torment and for the bliss granted by Liquid Pain, they'll be mobbed by weakened, nearly skeletal, but innocent civilians who are tearing at them(perhaps using well placed Suggestion to inspire a mob mentality of the adventurers being to selfish to hand over the Liquid Pain, their confusion is actually just denying what is so desperately craved)

If any commoners are accidentally slain, which they very well might, they come back as a skeleton, potentially without even falling, just the skin sloughing off

Lastly throw in an Avascular Mass in there(whether contingent to keep your involvement secret or not is unimportant) so that the heroes can't effectively get out

It's disgusting and horrific, perfect for mentally scarring the brave adventurers!

Alternatively, a piece of wondrous architecture that casts Breath of Life, in the same room as wondrous architecture casting Death by Thorns, so they writhe in pain as they die to thorns, get resurrected, rinse repeat, effective and scary torture.

I may actually steal this one.

[Buufreak]

Snippity snip snip

This sounds less like some grand evil scheme and more like economical, non magical contingencies.

[Segev]

This sounds less like some grand evil scheme and more like economical, non magical contingencies.

It doesn't sound grandly evil to you? Huh. Okay!

Still seems like a viable plot for a PC or an NPC, to me. :smallcool:

[Graysire]

I may actually steal this one.

You're welcome to it, I'm happy someone's going to get use out of it, it doesn't quite fit for my current (semi)horrifically evil campaign.
A person in said campaign is reading over my shoulder right now as well, so that makes it hard to use that one specifically.
But I plan to post more terrible evil things, and I'd love to hear how it goes(or if you need more fuel for the fire):smallamused:

[Segev]

In one game, there was a town terrorized by kobolds and plagued by thieves and missing children. It turned out that the kobolds were upping their banditry to unsustainable levels at the behest of new leadership; their chiefs were being replaced by kobolds infected with wererat lycanthropy, and those wererats were beholden to another wererat, a larger wererat, who demanded immense tribute.

Meanwhile, the town couldn't find the thieves because they were also wererats - the missing children were those who feared so much their parents would find out about their infection that they ran away. Others, still infected, stayed with their families but kept quiet and helped with the stealing because the wererat who infected them threatened to out them.

A half-elf bard merchant living in the town was the were-rat behind it all, and he used high Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate to convince the kids he infected that he was the only one who would understand, that even if they didn't trust him as a surrogate parent-figure, their real parents would hate them if they knew. So they had to obey him, or he'd out them.


Overall, it was a very satisfying thing for the players when they took him down. They then spent the majority of the rest of the campaign trying to find a cure for lycanthropy, and gather the ingredients for it en masse.

[Azoth]

I find Runecasters can get up to some interesting fun. Mainly because they don't need to ask a DM about custom items. Their class calls out how they do it.

There are two spells in BoEF, that cause a target to become pregnant with either a half fiend or half celestial child the next time they have sex. If memory serves they are level 4 spells.

Now, Runecasters can inscribe the runes on anything that they can make with a craft check, and set some pretty flexible trigger conditions. You could easily hide the runes in donated church idols, some prayer beads, jewelry ect.

So, let's say you slap a rune that causes everyone to become pregnant with half fiend children on a door bell for the local tavern that goes off whenever anyone gets within 30ft of it. Or for more fun, slap the same trigger on a copper coin.

Not the greatest evil, but it is entertaining to picture a whole mess of people having half outsider children and needing to explain it away.

I did this once and used it as proof of the end times. The character called the large increase in Fiendish and celestial children a sign of Armageddon. Nothing quite like making people think the end of the world is coming.

[Morphic tide]

There's some fun things you can do with Psionic circuits as an StP Erudite. You can load nearly any spell into them. You can also have nearly any psionic power in them. They are reusable. One of the expanded options has it so that it triggers whenever a command thought is done. With a moderately-permissive DM, you can have something set to go off whenever a person thinks a very specific thing that you don't want them to think. Like your real name. Possibly your True Name instead. This makes it so that everyone branded in this way suffers some extraordinary punishment for the grave crime of thinking your actual name, or the name of some particular person you want to be absolutely sure is Unpersoned.

This lets you successfully ban thoughts. With proper enforcement of it. That's Evil.

[Segev]

There's some fun things you can do with Psionic circuits as an StP Erudite. You can load nearly any spell into them. You can also have nearly any psionic power in them. They are reusable. One of the expanded options has it so that it triggers whenever a command thought is done. With a moderately-permissive DM, you can have something set to go off whenever a person thinks a very specific thing that you don't want them to think. Like your real name. Possibly your True Name instead. This makes it so that everyone branded in this way suffers some extraordinary punishment for the grave crime of thinking your actual name, or the name of some particular person you want to be absolutely sure is Unpersoned.

This lets you successfully ban thoughts. With proper enforcement of it. That's Evil.

This is clever and cruel, but unfortunately I am not sure it works without DMs house-ruling, because command thoughts (like any other standard action activation mechanism) have to be at least moderately deliberate. They take a Standard Action, after all.

[Morphic tide]

This is clever and cruel, but unfortunately I am not sure it works without DMs house-ruling, because command thoughts (like any other standard action activation mechanism) have to be at least moderately deliberate. They take a Standard Action, after all.

Actually, the thing I'm thinking of is Swift action activation of Psionic tattoos via command thought. The circuits let you pull some truly overkill things, because you can have infinite tattoos given enough time, money and XP. And they can recharge, admittedly with a loss of power when done actively.

Here's the text, straight from the Mind's Eye article:


Mental Tap [Mt]: This psionic tattoo uses a special type of psychoactive ink that responds to mental commands. You can add a mental tap to any one psionic tattoo, or to the tattoos linked via a relay. A psionic tattoo attached to a mental tap can be activated by mental command, as though it were a quickened power. Using a mental tap counts toward the normal limit of one quickened power per round. Newly scribed tattoos can be attached to an existing mental tap, provided it is not already attached to another tattoo or relay. The mental tap does not fade away when used. Mental taps assist you only in tapping your tattoos; an attempt to trigger an unconscious creature's tattoo takes a full-round action as normal. A mental tap instantly fades away if moved off your body. A mental tap takes a single slot and is created as though it were a tattoo of a 2nd-level power. Only manifesters of 5th level or higher can create this tattoo. Mental taps cost more than a standard psionic tattoo because of the special ink involved.

The cost for a mental tap tattoo includes an extra 500 gp for special materials; the cost to create this tattoo is 650 gp + 12 XP.

The DM permissiveness is having the mental command be something coherent and able to be triggered unwillingly.

[Azoth]

There's some fun things you can do with Psionic circuits as an StP Erudite. You can load nearly any spell into them. You can also have nearly any psionic power in them. They are reusable. One of the expanded options has it so that it triggers whenever a command thought is done. With a moderately-permissive DM, you can have something set to go off whenever a person thinks a very specific thing that you don't want them to think. Like your real name. Possibly your True Name instead. This makes it so that everyone branded in this way suffers some extraordinary punishment for the grave crime of thinking your actual name, or the name of some particular person you want to be absolutely sure is Unpersoned.

This lets you successfully ban thoughts. With proper enforcement of it. That's Evil.

While the Runecasters is limited to divine spells, craft Tattoo would let them do this implicitly with only 10min + spell cast time. Best part is that unintentionally triggering the rune is a non-action.

Drop a rune tattoo of Feeblemind on your minions with the trigger being any thought about your goal, and suddenly questioning your minions is pointless.

Throw Detonate, Fireball, or any nasty AoE on them to trigger if they forcibly lose consciousness, and then your minions become nasty living bombs. Save DC is the same as if you were there to cast it yourself, so it isn't trivial for your enemies to avoid.

[danielxcutter]

There's some fun things you can do with Psionic circuits as an StP Erudite. You can load nearly any spell into them. You can also have nearly any psionic power in them. They are reusable. One of the expanded options has it so that it triggers whenever a command thought is done. With a moderately-permissive DM, you can have something set to go off whenever a person thinks a very specific thing that you don't want them to think. Like your real name. Possibly your True Name instead. This makes it so that everyone branded in this way suffers some extraordinary punishment for the grave crime of thinking your actual name, or the name of some particular person you want to be absolutely sure is Unpersoned.

This lets you successfully ban thoughts. With proper enforcement of it. That's Evil.

I believe the Red One himself mentioned something similar, except with 20th level Truenamers.

[atemu1234]

I find Runecasters can get up to some interesting fun. Mainly because they don't need to ask a DM about custom items. Their class calls out how they do it.

There are two spells in BoEF, that cause a target to become pregnant with either a half fiend or half celestial child the next time they have sex. If memory serves they are level 4 spells.

Now, Runecasters can inscribe the runes on anything that they can make with a craft check, and set some pretty flexible trigger conditions. You could easily hide the runes in donated church idols, some prayer beads, jewelry ect.

So, let's say you slap a rune that causes everyone to become pregnant with half fiend children on a door bell for the local tavern that goes off whenever anyone gets within 30ft of it. Or for more fun, slap the same trigger on a copper coin.

Not the greatest evil, but it is entertaining to picture a whole mess of people having half outsider children and needing to explain it away.

I did this once and used it as proof of the end times. The character called the large increase in Fiendish and celestial children a sign of Armageddon. Nothing quite like making people think the end of the world is coming.

I mean, I once made an Orc tribe that used that spell religiously, for every child born. The result was... a very formidable army.

[danielxcutter]

I mean, I once made an Orc tribe that used that spell religiously, for every child born. The result was... a very formidable army.

How'd the party not die? Both templates are fairly strong compared to the increased CR.

[atemu1234]

How'd the party not die? Both templates are fairly strong compared to the increased CR.

Eh, I gave them one of the variants from a WoTC web article to drop the save-or-die spells, as they weren't exactly all that fitting anyway, and they wound up more or less facing an army of very large, angry orcs and half-orcs (don't ask).

The resultant battle was fought at a level where a group of CR 5 enemies numbering dozens isn't too difficult an encounter. Which is to say, level 14.

[danielxcutter]

Eh, I gave them one of the variants from a WoTC web article to drop the save-or-die spells, as they weren't exactly all that fitting anyway, and they wound up more or less facing an army of very large, angry orcs and half-orcs (don't ask).

The resultant battle was fought at a level where a group of CR 5 enemies numbering dozens isn't too difficult an encounter. Which is to say, level 14.

So, they were essentially at the power difference where fireballing them to death was viable? I was worried that you'd sent them elite orcs with half a dozen ECLs higher than the party, but looks like that's not the case.

[atemu1234]

So, they were essentially at the power difference where fireballing them to death was viable? I was worried that you'd sent them elite orcs with half a dozen ECLs higher than the party, but looks like that's not the case.

Please, I'm not that crazy.

[danielxcutter]

Please, I'm not that crazy.

Actually, both templates add a +4 LA, so the ECL for orcs half a dozen ECLs higher than the party... would still be 2 more than the party without those templates.

[atemu1234]

Actually, both templates add a +4 LA, so the ECL for orcs half a dozen ECLs higher than the party... would still be 2 more than the party without those templates.

Only one of the spells is in use, the one to make half-fiends. Most of them were barbarians or warriors.

[danielxcutter]

Only one of the spells is in use, the one to make half-fiends. Most of them were barbarians or warriors.

No, half a dozen ECLs higher is 6, so take away the 4 from half-fiend is still 2. That's what I meant.

But yeah even mooks are pretty annoying when they've all got templates. How difficult was the fight?

[atemu1234]

No, half a dozen ECLs higher is 6, so take away the 4 from half-fiend is still 2. That's what I meant.

But yeah even mooks are pretty annoying when they've all got templates. How difficult was the fight?

Not very. Again, the variant I used (Half-Goristo, I think) had very few SLAs, which is where most of the annoyance comes in. They were basically just somewhat stronger orcs.

[danielxcutter]

Not very. Again, the variant I used (Half-Goristo, I think) had very few SLAs, which is where most of the annoyance comes in. They were basically just somewhat stronger orcs.

I guess, but it depends on the build. Half-Succubus + Blackguard + Divine Shield + Divine Might = Ouch.

[Ellrin]

I guess, but it depends on the build. Half-Succubus + Blackguard + Divine Shield + Divine Might = Ouch.

I think making half-succubus orcs in the first place is plenty evil enough, really.

[Cirrylius]

I have an evil Necromancer-ish character who literally performed... exploratory surgery when bored and inconvenienced.

Potentially trigger-ish.

While idly reading in a tavern, he got propositioned once too often by a local lady of negotiable affection. He shrugged and bowed to the inevitable. Once away from prying eyes, he tried out that new overarm sap technique he'd read about, drugged her out with Drow sleeping poison, and opened her up to have a brief look at her organs; specifically, to see if/how her profession had affected her womb. Discovering she was several months pregnant, he removed the fetus into a jar and cast Gentle Repose, partly because he couldn't remember ever having read of anyone doing that before. Probably the darkest part of that is he hasn't forgotten about that jar; it's sitting on a shelf, waiting for when he has a minute. Conjecturally, he's found a way to spawn Atropal Scions or some other equally awful unique undead. He cured the surgical incisions, and continued reading for the rest of the hour before giving her an alchemical antivenin. She left smiling about her bonus tip and her nap.

I'm not sure if it's what I'd call useful evil, but I believe it's pretty creatively dreadful.