OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[hamishspence]

Sigdi is awesome as usual.

[Velazquez]

It's nice to see that Durkon's mum can be...handy.:smallcool:

[Phexar]

Absolutely beautiful. :smallsmile: There were theories before about the rest of Durkon's extended family showing up to help but I didn't actually expect them to appear here and now, I love it.

[FireJustice]

Still a poor explanation why he can't blow a single regenerate spell.
but sure.
a shield is just +1 to AC anyways.
or, wait, plus damage if you use a two handed weapon, like, everybody should.


But still refreshing to see that not everyone hit it off without reason.

[Keltest]

Sigdi best mom. Wonder if she's going to get anything special for Mothers Day here soon?

[Quebbster]

As far as I am concerned, this comic can't have too much Sigdi.

A Little surprised to see Tinna there, but I guess it's an "every advantage Counts" type situation.

[Yirggzmb]

Still a poor explanation why he can't blow a single regenerate spell.

I think the reasoning is, she wouldn't let him. It doesn't really matter what Sigdi's reasoning is. Just that she didn't allow Durkon to do it. And it's not really a surprise. We always knew she didn't want the arm regenerated.

[andreas002]

Looks like the whole gang's here.

Now, how many of them are of a high enough level to be useful against the vampires?

[Braininthejar2]

oh, I have a feeling someone's going to Walhalla today...

[Lexible]

DWARVEN BARDS

That is all.

[Azazyll]

Love Minrah calling out Hilgya for failing her will save against the vampire domination.

[2D8HP]

"...so ye can brutally eliminate everthin' tha indirectly threatens 'im"

Someone truly understands what parenthood is aboot!

[HandofShadows]

Ah, another lesson about family is going to given. :smallcool:

And we know how the people voting will be broken out of the spell. A bards singing isn't an attack or a spell. The best plan can go down the tubes if the enemy knows what it is. And in this case the Order knows the plan BETTER than the Vamps do. :smallamused::smallbiggrin:

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Well. I guess that solves the whole "they only have 5 or 6 dwarves who can go past the orange barrier" problem. And with their age, they probably have the wisdom to somewhat resist domination gaze.

[Trillium]

Rich has been to movies this weekend, I see.

[declinator]

This comic made me tear up a little. Go family!

[AutomatedTeller]

Guess they have plenty of dwarves to get into the inner chamber.

As for helping - if they all had crossbows, it would be better, but numbers are just good.

Like the dwarf twins in the foreground!!

[Quebbster]

Nice to see how things progressed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1086.html). At first I wondered if the caster was Logann's mother, but then I realized it was probably his sister. I see Shirra's Twin sons grew up too, and their parents are in the back as well...

[Doug Lampert]

Truly, Sigdi does seem to have all the hands she needs here.

I suspect that she's also correct that giving her one additional arm in this fight is not in fact worth a seventh level slot. We don't know her level, but we do know that she wasn't rich even before she paid for five raise dead spells (which she could only do because someone handed her 25,000 GP worth of treasure).

High levels tend to have lots of money in D&D land.

[anonynos]

Still a poor explanation why he can't blow a single regenerate spell.


Sometimes people make non-optimal choices because of Role Playing reasons. This largely seems to be the case here. She has her personal reasons for feeling it's unnecessary to have the arm regrown. And heck, if she's spent her feats on things like "Specialty it wielding a single one handed weapon without a shield" then regenerating her arm actually isn't optimal use of resources. *Shrug*

[Mad Humanist]

A Little surprised to see Tinna there, but I guess it's an "every advantage Counts" type situation.

Tinna looks a little scared to me. But after Minrah died, she could not really keep putting off going into battle. And if I recall she previously said how useless she would be in battle. And so apparently Rogo's contribution to the battle is looking after Kudzu.

[Larre Gannd]

>All-female charge
>All old friends come to help
Rich has been to movies this weekend, I see.

Shh. Spoilers!

[Peelee]

Still a poor explanation why he can't blow a single regenerate spell.

Sure it is; she didn't say not to do it, she said not to do it before the fight. Sounds like she'll accept it once there's no urgent matters to attent do with high level magic.

Also, are the dwarves gonna protest? I want a dwarven protest! Go, my dwarven friends, disrupt that council!

[Moriel64]

I think Hilgya may finally realize what Durkon is thinking about when he talks about "family" and "marriage." She may yet come about! [romantic heart-eyes emoji]

[Bartok]

Anyone else filled with the certainty that Sigdi is about to get her honourable death? The circle is complete, her reward and reunion are nigh.

[Coyote0715]

Dwarven flash mob FTW!

[Verappo]

I love that Sigdi's family is basically its own adventuring party with class levels, bard included!

I hope she will at least let Durkon heal her arthritis to the remaining hand though. That seems like a more pressing need

[Trillium]

Shh. Spoilers!

My bad, edited my reply.

[ruy343]

Hooray! new comic!

What a powerful final panel, especially after the story that got us this far (explaining who they are). I never expected to see the power of "good" so plainly manifest in a situation of dire need. It motivates me to continue being good as well.

[Darth Paul]

So much awesome, how did it fit on one page?

"Sometimes you have to leave your cub behind in the den so you can brutally eliminate everything that indirectly threatens him." That's Mom logic right there.

And then there's Minrah and Hilgya, the Big Damn Heroes/ Amazon Brigade/ The Cavalry, and Sigdi all in one strip. I can't love this enough.

[heavyfuel]

Still a poor explanation why he can't blow a single regenerate spell.
but sure.

Yes. Because +2 to AC or like +5 damage from two hands is better than, say, Holy Word. (oh wait, it isn't)

[faustin]

Pray to every deity besides yourself Sigdi gets to die in this this battle and go with Thor, Hel. You don't want to face her in Niflheim after what you did to her son.

[FlawedParadigm]

Multiple bards + large number of allies within earshot = the vampires are boned.

[kiapet]

Okay, let's see. From roughly left to right, we have:

Hoskin
Hoskin's wife
Thandro
Shirra's twins
Durkon's baby cousin (who became a spellcaster, wow)
Squeaky
Dark-skinned bald guy with a crossbow
Squeaky's apprentice
Guy with a lute- possibly another of Squeaky's apprentices
Ponytail girl with an axe
Cousin Logann
Woman with a bun
Shirra
Shirra's husband
Three bearded men with helmets

I'm very curious as to who the family members I didn't recognize from the memories are. Maybe they're kids we didn't meet, especially considering Hoskin got married late, or friends of Durkon's aunts and uncles?

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Hooray! new comic!

What a powerful final panel, especially after the story that got us this far (explaining who they are). I never expected to see the power of "good" so plainly manifest in a situation of dire need. It motivates me to continue being good as well.

At least we know that this is definitely the climax of the 6th book. After this battle, it's speeches, mourning over the dead (cause some of those guys are going to die), and seeing what Team Evil is up to.

[littlebum2002]

Still a poor explanation why he can't blow a single regenerate spell.
but sure.
.

According to C&L geekery, Durkon is only level 12 now, and can't even cast it anymore. Even if he's level 13, casting it would be his sole non-domain 7th level spell for that day. Even if his wisdom is higher than they give him credit for (22-23) and he gets a bonus 7th level spell, him using up half his highest level spells on a day when the entire fate of the world is at stake doesn't make sense.

[Quild]

As a young father, I'm really surprised by Hilgya giving Kudzu's to some unknown peoples care.

And she does seem to have more trust issues than me and my mate!


Multiple bards + large number of allies within earshot = the vampires are boned.

Hope they'll go the same way tout Xykon. Just for pun.

[JumboWheat01]

The family that smites evil together stays together.

[Grey Watcher]

Aw yeah! Extended family of choice FTW!

(I do hope Squeaky's apprentice (her name escapes me at the moment) has improved in the past two or three decades, though.)

Also, how does Sigdi look THAT badass?

[Gluteus_Maximus]

According to C&L geekery, Durkon is only level 12 now, and can't even cast it anymore. Even if he's level 13, casting it would be his sole non-domain 7th level spell for that day. Even if his wisdom is higher than they give him credit for (22-23) and he gets a bonus 7th level spell, him using up half his highest level spells on a day when the entire fate of the world is at stake doesn't make sense.

That should be a typo, though. He was 15th as Greg (could cast Symbol) and was level drained once each by the Resurrection and the Raise Dead. He's 13th level.

[kiapet]

As a young father, I'm really surprised by Hilgya giving Kudzu's to some unknown peoples care.

And she does seem to have more trust issues than me and my mate!

I mean, the alternative is bringing him into battle, which didn't work out great last time. Or waiting for everyone else to defeat the vampires, but that's not Hilgya's style.

[Grey Watcher]

As a young father, I'm really surprised by Hilgya giving Kudzu's to some unknown peoples care.

And she does seem to have more trust issues than me and my mate!



Hope they'll go the same way tout Xykon. Just for pun.

When your co-parent's parent has established that she can end you one-handed, I think that tends to give her daycare recommendations added weight.

[danielxcutter]

DWARVEN BARDS

That is all.

DWARDS!

Okay, that was a bit lame-ish. Still fits though.


Aw yeah! Extended family of choice FTW!

(I do hope Squeaky's apprentice (her name escapes me at the moment) has improved in the past two or three decades, though.)

Also, how does Sigdi look THAT badass?

She's a mom. That probably helps a lot. :smallamused:

[Peelee]

Squeaky's apprentice (her name escapes me at the moment)

Squawky. :smallamused:

[GregTD]

Still a poor explanation why he can't blow a single regenerate spell.
but sure.
a shield is just +1 to AC anyways.
or, wait, plus damage if you use a two handed weapon, like, everybody should.

It actually makes some real world sense.

50+ years without a right arm, she's going to need to get used to one again.

Which would take more than a couple of hours.

And which you really don't want to be doing during a fight for your life

[prism6691]

According to C&L geekery, Durkon is only level 12 now, and can't even cast it anymore. Even if he's level 13, casting it would be his sole non-domain 7th level spell for that day. Even if his wisdom is higher than they give him credit for (22-23) and he gets a bonus 7th level spell, him using up half his highest level spells on a day when the entire fate of the world is at stake doesn't make sense.

When he was a vampire he was able to create a symbol of death, therefore he must have been level 15 minimum. Assuming he actually lost 2 levels per dying twice, he has to be level 13. I can't offhand think of any other 8th levels he has cast other than mass death ward.

[Cicciograna]

This was beautiful and Sigdi is again a confirmed badass-level mom. Woe betide whomever threatens her family, her son, her grandson and heck, even her "almost daughter-in-law".

[Gluteus_Maximus]

As a young father, I'm really surprised by Hilgya giving Kudzu's to some unknown peoples care.

And she does seem to have more trust issues than me and my mate!

Her demeanor has certainly gone from Chaotic to Neutral, for sure, and she's become more shy. But, the theme of this book is that people don't just change who they are in a day. I wouldn't bet on her changing her mind about marriage.

[Peelee]

As a young father, I'm really surprised by Hilgya giving Kudzu's to some unknown peoples care.

As a young father I'm relieved!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Sigdi and Minrah are awesome, as is this extended family. Relieved to see that Hilgya finally decided to not needlessly risk the life of her son.

[Fyraltari]

Now, this is proper awesome.

[Peelee]

Her demeanor has certainly gone from Chaotic to Neutral

I disagree. She's acting plenty chaotic, IMO.

[ken]

I love Squeeky and Apprentice in their combat bard pose

Ken

[Calemyr]

Still a poor explanation why he can't blow a single regenerate spell.
but sure.
a shield is just +1 to AC anyways.
or, wait, plus damage if you use a two handed weapon, like, everybody should.


But still refreshing to see that not everyone hit it off without reason.

The real reason she refuses the regeneration isn't one Hilgya would have the background or mentality to understand: Sigdi's hand is still down there, holding her husband's. She never let go. That means a whole heck of a lot more to her than regaining a limb she's spent decades learning how not to use.

The tactical value of a hand she is no longer familiar with, or the value of a 7th level slot, is just an excuse, meant more to satisfy Hilgya than honestly answer the question. Sigdi would never accept a regeneration. She would never accept the though that the limb buried with her husband is no longer hers.

[Particle_Man]

So what music would you choose for this part of the strip were it a movie?

[Jasdoif]

I do hope Squeaky's apprentice (her name escapes me at the moment)Her name is Janna (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html).

[Peelee]

The real reason she refuses the regeneration isn't one Hilgya would have the background or mentality to understand: Sigdi's hand is still down there, holding her husband's. She never let go. That means a whole heck of a lot more to her than regaining a limb she's spent decades learning how not to use.

And if she got her arm Regenerated, her hand would still be down there, and she still would never let go. Regen doesn't take the old matter, it creates new matter.

[Fyraltari]

Some of these guys we never met before. I guess Durkon’s cousins brought their spouses/boy/girlfriends with them. Of course these naturally would have brought their siblings and parents with them who themselves...

Oh Thor, the whole of Firmament is there, isn’t it?

[Peelee]

Her name is Janna (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html).

Well, her NAME name, but everyone calls her Squawky. Similar to her brother, Squicky, who never made it through cleric school. I like Tolkienien naming schemes. And yes, I'm going with Tolkienien.

[Larre Gannd]

Well, her NAME name, but everyone calls her Squawky. Similar to her brother, Squicky, who never made it through cleric school. I like Tolkienien naming schemes. And yes, I'm going with Tolkienien.

I want this to be true

[Quebbster]

Okay, let's see. From roughly left to right, we have:


Hoskin's wife
Thandro
Kandro, but yes.

Shirra's twins
Durkon's baby cousin (who became a spellcaster, wow)
Squeaky
Dark-skinned bald guy with a crossbow
I Think it may be Logann's father. At hte very least he was dark-skinned and bald too.

Squeaky's apprentice
Janna, yes.

Guy with a lute- possibly another of Squeaky's apprentices
He looks fairly Young to me. Maybe Janna's new apprentice?

Ponytail girl with an axe
Guessing it's Hoskin's daughter, she looks a lot like Hoskin's fiancee at least.

Cousin Logann
Woman with a bun
Shirra
Shirra's husband
Three bearded men with helmets

I'm very curious as to who the family members I didn't recognize from the memories are. Maybe they're kids we didn't meet, especially considering Hoskin got married late, or friends of Durkon's aunts and uncles?
Guesses above.

[factotum]

And if she got her arm Regenerated, her hand would still be down there, and she still would never let go. Regen doesn't take the old matter, it creates new matter.

I'm sure Sigdi wouldn't see it that way. So long as she doesn't have an arm she has a connection to the one she lost under the rockfall. As soon as she gets it regenerated, the arm holding her husband just becomes another jumble of old bones that doesn't have anything to do with her.

[TuringTest]

Wait, did Minrah actually get resurrected off-panel?

I remember her arguing with Durkon in the afterlife about her decision to come back (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html), but not actually see it happen. And going back a few strips, the last we saw of her, she was still besides Thor. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1150.html)

[Peelee]

I'm sure Sigdi wouldn't see it that way. So long as she doesn't have an arm she has a connection to the one she lost under the rockfall. As soon as she gets it regenerated, the arm holding her husband just becomes another jumble of old bones that doesn't have anything to do with her.

If that were true, she could have just said, "Eh, it took Durkon a while to undestand too." Instead, she had an extra line saying "not before this fight, he needs all the help he can get," which fits fine with a pragmatist who has no issue with eventually getting her arm back.

[Cazero]

Weird.
Most dwarves have the exact same pose and that gives me a feeling of copy/paste.
Compare with the hobgoblin charge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html), where they all have the same face and body type, but the different poses and overall chaos completely suppress that.

[Peelee]

Weird.
Most dwarves have the exact same pose and that gives me a feeling of copy/paste.
Compare with the hobgoblin charge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html), where they all have the same face and body type, but the different poses and overall chaos completely suppress that.

A lot of those goblins look copy/pasted and oriented slightly differently.

ETA: Conversely, almost none of the dwarves look copy/pasted. Where are you seeing that? The half hidden ones, maybe.

[Yirggzmb]

Wait, did Minrah actually get resurrected off-panel?

I remember her arguing with Durkon in the afterlife about her decision to come back (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html), but not actually see it happen. And going back a few strips, the last we saw of her, she was still besides Thor. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1150.html)

We've had a pretty significant time skip. The last time we saw the Order, they were settling in to rest and recoup, Durkon was claiming his new hammer, and there were still several hours before the meeting was set to begin. So there's been plenty of time for them to resurrect Minrah, among other things.

[Jasdoif]

Similar to her brother, Squicky, who never made it through cleric school.Got sued by the space dog over the name and couldn't afford the tuition, I'm guessing?

[Cazero]

A lot of those goblins look copy/pasted and oriented slightly differently.
They definitely are, especially those in the background.
Yet the dwarves feel more copypasted because all their legs are oriented the same way.

[Rizzer]

DWARVEN BARDS

That is all.

Funny that they're not playing bagpipes.

[Aaron L]

Beautiful and awesome.

[Peelee]

They definitely are, especially those in the background.
Yet the dwarves feel more copypasted because all their legs are oriented the same way.

Well, they're running, so there's only so many ways to show the legs. Even then, in remarkably similar poses, they have differences (like the curve of an arm being convex and another concave, for instance).

[Breccia]

DWARDS!

Okay, that was a bit lame-ish.

It's better than "BARF!"

Also, what's the opposite of Familicide? Because I think that's what we're looking at here.

[woweedd]

Gondor calls for aid!

[Resileaf]

Always glad to see Hilgya put in her place. Time for Durkon's family to shine!

And hopefully the evil death worm doesn't get a killing spree going.

[Goremplotz]

Good to see Sigdi again. And she is ambiguous to Hilgya as ever :smallsmile:

Also, I like Minrah's approach.

[NoHaxJustPi]

Yes. Because +2 to AC or like +5 damage from two hands is better than, say, Holy Word. (oh wait, it isn't)
I’d like to remind you that one-handed weapons are + Str bonus to damage, while two-handed weapons are +1.5*Str bonus to damage. This means that it’s, at best, +1 or +2 to damage.

[woweedd]

Always glad to see Hilgya put in her place. Time for Durkon's real family to shine!

And hopefully the evil death worm doesn't get a killing spree going.
Take heart: dying in battle saving a family member? What Dwarf wouldn't want to go out like that? That's, I imagine, partly why ALL of them came: Even if they die, they'll die swinging. Remember, to a Dwarf, dying at age 350, after a long and happy life, is the worst fate imaginable: The fact that you lived that long is a failure, because it means you never took the risks from which heroism is born.

[SilverCacaobean]

Sigdi! Armed and armored! Yes!
You know, I'm starting to like this fight scene.

She'd better not die heroically, earning her place in Valhalla and giving a last piece of sage advice to Hilgya, in this scene, though...

[Resileaf]

Take heart: dying in battle saving a family member? What Dwarf wouldn't want to go out like that? That's, I imagine, partly why ALL of them came: Even if they die, they'll die swinging. Remember, to a Dwarf, dying at age 350, after a long and happy life, is the worst fate imaginable: The fact that you lived that long is a failure, because it means you never took the risks from which heroism is born.

Eh, pretty sure that a point of the current storyline is that no, living in a society where you're forced to die heroically or you are doomed to an eternity of torment is not actually a good thing.

[DaOldeWolf]

Awesome, the whole family is here! :smallbiggrin:

[Fyraltari]

I really doubt that Sigdi dying heroically would be treated as a good thing. Kandro, however...

[JumboWheat01]

Weird.
Most dwarves have the exact same pose and that gives me a feeling of copy/paste.
Compare with the hobgoblin charge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html), where they all have the same face and body type, but the different poses and overall chaos completely suppress that.

Makes sense to me. Dwarves as a race lean strongly towards Lawful, with orderly and disciplined upbringings. Dwarves charging in with the same pose shows training that they hold strongly to, even when they're a ragtag band of extended family going to kick butt and probably forget about names.

[CriticalFailure]

Exciting to see Durkon's family arrive; Hilgya and Minrah continue to be some of my secondary character faves.

[Asmodean_]

The best punchlines are wordless.

Also I think we have the new version of how to make Tarquin's omelettes.

[Arkain]

Beautiful. And Sigdi of course still best mom.

[Darth Paul]

So what music would you choose for this part of the strip were it a movie?

"Die Walkure", natch

[woweedd]

Eh, pretty sure that a point of the current storyline is that no, living in a society where you're forced to die heroically or you are doomed to an eternity of torment is not actually a good thing.
Well, yeah, but point is, even if they die, they're going down the way they would have wanted.

[Kaed]

The most interesting parallel to to me is between Sidgi and Hilgya. Both gained fantastic wealth through their own actions and mistakes, at the cost of their own family (granted, one was killed by a cave in fighting a troll, and the other was made destitute by Hilgya's meddling), while pregnant no less.

But whereas Sidgi used her wealth to make herself a new family that has grown into what is practically Clan Thundershield at this point, Hilgya has done nothing with the wealth but enrich herself.

Hilgya is a selfish individual, but we've always known that. The fact that she thinks about herself before anything else is one of her defining character traits. Sure, she's taking care of her son, but even that relationship has a sort of element of possessiveness to it - that's HER son, she's take care of him however she likes, taking him into danger notwithstanding. I'm wondering if, much like Belkar, seeing what she could accomplish if she wasn't such a colossal bitch might start turning her towards a better path. She hasn't spent her fortune yet entirely, she just used a few diamonds so far.

[Eldritch Queen]

There's a comparison to Avengers: Endgame to be made here, but I'll let people figure it out on their own. :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Torath]

The real reason she refuses the regeneration isn't one Hilgya would have the background or mentality to understand: Sigdi's hand is still down there, holding her husband's. She never let go. That means a whole heck of a lot more to her than regaining a limb she's spent decades learning how not to use.

The tactical value of a hand she is no longer familiar with, or the value of a 7th level slot, is just an excuse, meant more to satisfy Hilgya than honestly answer the question. Sigdi would never accept a regeneration. She would never accept the though that the limb buried with her husband is no longer hers.
And if she got her arm Regenerated, her hand would still be down there, and she still would never let go. Regen doesn't take the old matter, it creates new matter.I'm with Calemyr on this one. Her missing arm is a constant reminder of her dearest love lying buried under the mountain. Every time she notices her missing arm, it makes her remember the good times she had and how much she loves him.


There's a comparison to Avengers: Endgame to be made here, but I'll let people figure it out on their own. :smallbiggrin:Thank you. No, really, thank you! I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers until I can see it myself (hopefully this week).

[Flibbert]

Gondor calls for aid!
Funny, "Rohirrim!" from the end of The Two Towers film came to mind when I saw the last panel.

[Ironsmith]

Funny, "Rohirrim!" from the end of The Two Towers film came to mind when I saw the last panel.

And my head got stuck on a Spy Kids reference. Whoa boy.

[Mic_128]

The whole dwarven family! Eeee! :D

[gatemansgc]

As far as I am concerned, this comic can't have too much Sigdi.

A Little surprised to see Tinna there, but I guess it's an "every advantage Counts" type situation.

well she had time to pray for combat spells for the first time, probably. or at the very least clerical support spells. probably support spells, since she has no armor on.

[KorvinStarmast]

I like Minrah reverting to Fighter form and taking charge. :smallsmile:

And the attack of the Dwarven Bards.

Hilgya says "I don't even know why I'm here."

I think it's due to Sigdi's high Charisma ...

I just noticed that Minrah is left handed.

[gatemansgc]

I'm with Calemyr on this one. Her missing arm is a constant reminder of her dearest love lying buried under the mountain. Every time she notices her missing arm, it makes her remember the good times she had and how much she loves him.

Thank you. No, really, thank you! I'm trying my hardest to avoid spoilers until I can see it myself (hopefully this week).

that actually makes sense.

and i'm seeing endgame tomorrow. since $5 tuesdays at loews theaters for AMC stubs members (of any level including free). why would anyone wanna pay more than that?

[Goosefarble]

Genuinely teared up a little at the last panel :')

[Ironsmith]

Take heart: dying in battle saving a family member? What Dwarf wouldn't want to go out like that? That's, I imagine, partly why ALL of them came: Even if they die, they'll die swinging. Remember, to a Dwarf, dying at age 350, after a long and happy life, is the worst fate imaginable: The fact that you lived that long is a failure, because it means you never took the risks from which heroism is born.


Eh, pretty sure that a point of the current storyline is that no, living in a society where you're forced to die heroically or you are doomed to an eternity of torment is not actually a good thing.

Couldn't this last part be taken as a bit of a counterpoint to that? I mean, the people who have really gone on and on about how horrible it is are Hel and Hylgia, one of whom is the villain (and complains on the grounds that it's an inconvenience for her) and the other of whom is kind of having her life philosophy stampeded right now.


The most interesting parallel to to me is between Sidgi and Hilgya. Both gained fantastic wealth through their own actions and mistakes, at the cost of their own family (granted, one was killed by a cave in fighting a troll, and the other was made destitute by Hilgya's meddling), while pregnant no less.

But whereas Sidgi used her wealth to make herself a new family that has grown into what is practically Clan Thundershield at this point, Hilgya has done nothing with the wealth but enrich herself.

Hilgya is a selfish individual, but we've always known that. The fact that she thinks about herself before anything else is one of her defining character traits. Sure, she's taking care of her son, but even that relationship has a sort of element of possessiveness to it - that's HER son, she's take care of him however she likes, taking him into danger notwithstanding. I'm wondering if, much like Belkar, seeing what she could accomplish if she wasn't such a colossal bitch might start turning her towards a better path. She hasn't spent her fortune yet entirely, she just used a few diamonds so far.

So, would that make Sigdi our analog to Shojo, if we were to compare the two character arcs? I mean, sure, Mr Scruffy provided the pathos, but it was Shojo that most directly influenced his new life philosophy. Or at least, weird acid-trip-whilst-unconscious Shojo did.

[Lheticus]

That second panel...DANG. Minrah picked a REALLY good time to roll a Nat 20 on his Intimidate check.

[Darth Paul]

(snip)
and i'm seeing endgame tomorrow. since $5 tuesdays at loews theaters for AMC stubs members (of any level including free). why would anyone wanna pay more than that?

I took my daughter to the $6 matinee Friday, just because otherwise I would have to... pay $6 for a different matinee??

Tell you this much- the 96% Rotten Tomatoes score is well deserved.

[Snails]

DWARVEN BARDS

Inspire that mass of short bearded heroes. Whooo hooooo!


Hilgya says "I don't even know why I'm here."

Not a good sign, but I think a necessary enough reminder of who she is, to set the table for her Evolve Or Die test...

[gatemansgc]

I took my daughter to the $6 matinee Friday, just because otherwise I would have to... pay $6 for a different matinee??

Tell you this much- the 96% Rotten Tomatoes score is well deserved.

i guess different theaters do it on different days? this is $5 for any showing at any time of day, though there's a slight extra charge for IMAX. but it's still like half the price!

i'm hoping any endgame spoilers get quickly scrubbed. i can't imagine how many people here haven't seen it yet.

[Snails]

Eh, pretty sure that a point of the current storyline is that no, living in a society where you're forced to die heroically or you are doomed to an eternity of torment is not actually a good thing.

That is only one facet of a bigger gem. Narrowly speaking, yes, Hilgya's critique is correct. But she has gone so off the deep end that she literally cannot notice that her baby is certainly doomed to Hel if some heroics do not happen right now.

So another facet of the current storyline is just thinking about yourself is ultimately self-destructive and self-defeating IMNSHO.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Also, how does Sigdi look THAT badass?

She's Sigdi. No other explanation needed.

[Fyraltari]

Re arm regen, I expect Sigdi and Durkon to have pretty much this exact conversation later on, ending with Durkon convincing her to let him regrow it because making it harder foe herself isn't something tenrin would want, probably with a call-back to panel 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0983.html).


Good to see Sigdi again. And she is ambiguous to Hilgya as ever :smallsmile:
You know, I hadn't noticed the threat in there. Good call.

I just noticed that Minrah is left handed.
You're right! Yeah!



So what music would you choose for this part of the strip were it a movie?
THEN THE DWARVEN BARDS ARRIVED! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75zmIj_4LFQ)
Wait!

I already made that joke. :smallfrown:

[Lkctgo]

I sincerely wonder if their levels are enough to turn the tide. I think the only use for the new dwarves is to use the Bardic Freedom spell that Elan used.

[Peelee]

I'm with Calemyr on this one. Her missing arm is a constant reminder of her dearest love lying buried under the mountain. Every time she notices her missing arm, it makes her remember the good times she had and how much she loves him.

So is her son. So are her friends. From what we've seen so far, she doesn't seem like the kind of person to dance around and make up things instead of just being direct, especially to adult Durkon.

[jwhouk]

Tres Awesome.

Clan Durkon to the rescue!

[xroads]

I just love the imagery of bards rushing into battle armed with their deadly lutes of war!! :smallbiggrin:

[chy03001]

The feels :')

And they say Charisma is a dump stat ;-)

[Rogar Demonblud]

I sincerely wonder if their levels are enough to turn the tide. I think the only use for the new dwarves is to use the Bardic Freedom spell that Elan used.

It's not a spell, it's part of the Bardic Music class ability.

[D.One]

Epic! Just epic!!!


PS: "Miss-Cleric-Who-Can't-Resist-Domination-Magic" LOL :smallbiggrin:

[HouseRules]

All the family refers to the five strangers that She provided the resurrection diamonds. They are not biologically related to Durkon, but they are sworn to be a family for what She did for them.

[Ninja Dragon]

An entire civilization who wants to go to Valhalla can be quite useful.

Just tell them there is a battle for the survival of the world going somewhere and they will come running to join.

[xroads]

I sincerely wonder if their levels are enough to turn the tide. I think the only use for the new dwarves is to use the Bardic Freedom spell that Elan used.

Since Rich is leaning more towards telling a story now days and is relying less on D&D mechanics, there is probably a pretty good chance levels won't matter.

And even when considering D&D mechanics, there are other ways to help. They may end up giving the assembled council circumstantial bonuses to resisting domination, for example. Or even just force their adversaries to distribute their attacks more.

[Resileaf]

That is only one facet of a bigger gem. Narrowly speaking, yes, Hilgya's critique is correct. But she has gone so off the deep end that she literally cannot notice that her baby is certainly doomed to Hel if some heroics do not happen right now.

So another facet of the current storyline is just thinking about yourself is ultimately self-destructive and self-defeating IMNSHO.

Well I was more refering to the "There's more to life than dying heroically" part. Yes, garanteed paradise when you kick the bucket is nice and all, but you have 200ish years of life to go through first. Minrah realized that, and I'm sure it's something all the other dwarves would like to have as well.

[redemedic]

I am honestly just waiting for Durkon to win the day using the 'rebel trees' in Valhalla as reinforcements.

[Rogar Demonblud]

All the family refers to the five strangers that She provided the resurrection diamonds. They are not biologically related to Durkon, but they are sworn to be a family for what She did for them.

...

Does this mean Minrah just got adopted into the Thundershield Clan as well?

[Fish]

Why didn’t Sigdi get her arm restored?

Because that’s the point of the strip.

Sigdi could have done the immediate and selfish thing and spent the money getting her arm remade. Instead she donated a pile of cash to get dwarves raised from the dead. And helped others. And made a family. A family who are now coming to save her son, and her, and the whole fate of the dwarves, and the freakin’ universe. Because she chose to do one unselfish deed, which has come around to benefit herself and everyone else in a huge way.

And she’s all but rubbing it in Hilgya’s face.

Sure, there’s nothing preventing Sigdi from getting her arm done, from a technical or tactical point of view, but she hasn’t done it as of this very moment because Rich is probably highlighting the difference between Hilgya’s and Sigdi’s moral viewpoints.

[zimmerwald1915]

...

Does this mean Minrah just got adopted into the Thundershield Clan as well?
Considering that the means of induction into the Thundershield Clan is apparently to get resurrected by a member, and that Minrah was probably resurrected (with the raise dead spell, to be clear) by Durkon, yeah, she's a cousin of some kind.

[BlueHydra]

Dwarvengers Assemble!

[ShinigamiKenji]

I almost never comment here, but when I do, it's due to badassery and awesomeness.

And this strip has plenty of both, from Minrah and Sigdi calling out on Hilgya and the Dwarven charge. Honestly, this whole book is especially filled with such moments.

[Wysper]

I think the reasoning is, she wouldn't let him. It doesn't really matter what Sigdi's reasoning is. Just that she didn't allow Durkon to do it. And it's not really a surprise. We always knew she didn't want the arm regenerated.

I think it's her way of honoring her fallen husband.

[Taojnhy]

After seeing Sigdi previously (and awesomely) put Hilgya in her place, the third and fourth panels seem a lot more foreshadowy to me.

[zimmerwald1915]

I think it's her way of honoring her fallen husband.
Honoring, refusing to move on from; po-ta-to, po-tah-to.

[Kish]

That second panel...DANG. Minrah picked a REALLY good time to roll a Nat 20 on his Intimidate check.
Minrah's a her.

[The_Weirdo]

Why didn’t Sigdi get her arm restored?

Because that’s the point of the strip.

Sigdi could have done the immediate and selfish thing and spent the money getting her arm remade. Instead she donated a pile of cash to get dwarves raised from the dead. And helped others. And made a family. A family who are now coming to save her son, and her, and the whole fate of the dwarves, and the freakin’ universe. Because she chose to do one unselfish deed, which has come around to benefit herself and everyone else in a huge way.

And she’s all but rubbing it in Hilgya’s face.

Sure, there’s nothing preventing Sigdi from getting her arm done, from a technical or tactical point of view, but she hasn’t done it as of this very moment because Rich is probably highlighting the difference between Hilgya’s and Sigdi’s moral viewpoints.

Sigdi was given an option regarding what to spend her money on.

Hilgya was married off at crossbow point and reacted accordingly.

Both should be praised for what they did: Sigdi for rezzing five people and Hilgya for destroying a sex trafficking ring.

Regardless, the three, in this strip, were awesome in their own ways.

Minrah took charge and is acting on determination and grit alone - and she's earhed respect.

Hilgya is a powerhouse - which makes sense, since her family caused her to, as a first-level commoner, have to become an adventurer.

Sigdi is helping through both her own skills and the fact that she created a community of people willing to rally for her.

[Lombard]

lol hey did Rich pull a Stan Lee and cameo himself in?

[Giscard76]

Hazzah! That is all.. :smallbiggrin:

[Malfarian]

I almost cheered out loud at work!

Thanks!

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Honoring, refusing to move on from; po-ta-to, po-tah-to.

You know the phrase, "these are our hills, we will die on them"?

Some things, you don't move on from. Some things, you never let go of. Once you find something like that, you'll understand.

Also, I've never heard anybody say, "po-tah-to" except when using that phrase (and no, I'm not going to just call the whole thing off. Potahto is wrong and potato is right).

[ManuelSacha]

Nice!
I'm happy to see the entire Thundershield clan, and I love that they have skalds.
Also, Minrah is being especially passive-aggressive with Hilgya for the whole killing her affair... and it's hilarious! :smallbiggrin:

[understatement]

Just dropping a few thoughts:

Always loved Minrah, loving her more now.

Sigdi oozes awesome.

Hilgya's offhand Flame Strike is pretty decent.

I really hope these dwarves are high enough level; the Order handles the worm, Hilgya and Durkon should be able to take out the Exarch, Minrah and the others could take out the two spawn.

ANYways --

yahhhhhhh

i really need to check my brain cells

[Giscard76]

lol hey did Rich pull a Stan Lee and cameo himself in?

I think maybe he did

[The_Weirdo]

Nice!
I'm happy to see the entire Thundershield clan, and I love that they have skalds.
Also, Minrah is being especially passive-aggressive with Hilgya for the whole killing her affair... and it's hilarious! :smallbiggrin:

I guess it's understandable: high-level adventurers would let the whole domination thing go - a "1" happens and, for the higher levels, can have more consequences. But Minrah doesn't have that experience yet.

On Hilgya vs. Sigdi: Both learned very true lessons about family and community, lessons that intertwine:

Hilgya learned that, when your only "family" is a bunch of complete and utter monsters that treat you as property, you have to become self-reliant and independently strong.

Sigdi learned that you can create your own family and that there is a lot of power in having a bunch of people willing to go to bat for you.

Both these facts are true. Both of them represent power and ability. One from a Chaotic standpoint, the standpoint of those who had to be self-reliant, and other from a Lawful standpoint, the standpoint of those who were able to find and create support.

[Ruck]

So is her son. So are her friends. From what we've seen so far, she doesn't seem like the kind of person to dance around and make up things instead of just being direct, especially to adult Durkon.

To this discussion, I'll add that Sigdi has to know that Durkon became a Cleric in order to regenerate her arm. Not letting him do so seems cruel. Plus, we already know she's learned a lesson about accepting help when offered.


That second panel...DANG. Minrah picked a REALLY good time to roll a Nat 20 on his Intimidate check.

"his"?


Anyone else filled with the certainty that Sigdi is about to get her honourable death? The circle is complete, her reward and reunion are nigh.

Nah, seems too cruel.


It's better than "BARF!"

NOTHING is better than "BARF!" (We are talking River City Ransom, right?)


Also, what's the opposite of Familicide? Because I think that's what we're looking at here.

Summon Family IX: On top of allowing the caster to summon XdY family members of Z level, it allows the caster to summon people they have strong personal bonds with, even if they are not biological family.

[The_Weirdo]

Summon Family IX: On top of allowing the caster to summon XdY family members of Z level, it allows the caster to summon people they have strong personal bonds with, even if they are not biological family.

While Sigdi got that through her own merits, it kinda helps that she likely told her people that their souls were at stake, no?

[Resileaf]

While Sigdi got that through her own merits, it kinda helps that she likely told her people that their souls were at stake, no?

Or maybe she said "I really need your help right now", and because they're family and love each other, they all went "We'll be here in fifteen minutes" because that's what family does.

[Michaeler]

Honestly, what is the likelihood that Sigdi doesn't have Improved Single Weapon Fighting after all these years?

[The_Weirdo]

Or maybe she said "I really need your help right now", and because they're family and love each other, they all went "We'll be here in fifteen minutes" because that's what family does.

Oh, don't mistake what I said for dissing Sigdi. The simple fact that - if she DID tell them that their souls were at stake and how - they believed her is a testament to Sigdi's ability to rally her family.

[Tobrian]

I really wish Hilgya would get a visit from her god, Loki, who should give his apathetic cleric a stern talking-to. At the Godsmoot, Loki voted AGAINST the plan to destroy the world! Loki was actually on the same side as Thor, they both don't want Hel to win!


I think Hilgya may finally realize what Durkon is thinking about when he talks about "family" and "marriage." She may yet come about! [romantic heart-eyes emoji]
Ew, oh gods no. Hilgya shows all the signs of being a sociopath (inability to follow rules way beyond the scope of being of "chaotic alignment" or beyond being the cleric of a chaotic Trickster deity like Loki(*), to the point of going against her own best interests just to spite others) and a psychopath (lack of empathy, seeing other people as things).

Hilgya not only failed her Will save despite her cleric boni, she seems to be dumb as rocks. "I don't even know why I'm here", she complains. Uh, to save the world from being destroyed?

She is extremely selfish, approaches all social interaction in terms of economic exchange ("What do I get out of it?", "How are you useful to me?"), but projects her selfishness unto others (like falsely claiming her family abused her for arranging a marriage to a loving husband, when they were simply acting like a normal dwarven family), complaining how anyone else doesn't put her interests front and center. She does even seem to give a crap about her own child beyond a general "my child is my property, therefore I defend him" behaviour. I wonder what will happen when Kudzu grows up and as a teenager dares defy his mother's will...?
------

(*) Compare Hilgya with Elan, who is canonically chaotic good, or even with Belkar, who is chaotic evil... despite being chaotic both are able to work with others and able to form emotional attachments to animals and people. Hilgya isn't.

Hilgya strikes me, in fact, more as neutral evil, which is the alignment best summed up as: "I don't give a damn about anyone or anything else except my own advantage, and will betray or kill anyone to get it". She is defiant of authorities (making me wonder why she became a cleric, a class that is all about following commandments of your deity?) but she can be strong-armed by anyone with stronger willpower into trudging along, because deep down "anarchy" isn't a worldview for her as it would for a chaotic character. Instead she is more "meh, whatever, fate of the world doesn't interest me, I just want make everyone feel how put-upon I am!"

[Ruck]

I don't understand the argument that Sigdi won't get her arm restored because it's a reminder of Tenrin. As Peelee said, she's both pragmatic and has plenty of reminders of Tenrin around, including the son she hasn't seen in almost twenty years. She doesn't strike me as the sentimental type, or she probably would have chosen to resurrect Tenrin in the first place instead of saving five dwarves from Hel. I think she would have had her arm regenerated by now if she could afford it.

Re: Hilgya, I think she's going to hopefully get a lesson here in what family at its best can be, which will be especially interesting if the theory (one I lean towards myself) that the dwarf who survived the troll attack and gave Sigdi the chest of loot is a Firehelm.

[Fyraltari]

While Sigdi got that through her own merits, it kinda helps that she likely told her people that their souls were at stake, no?


Or maybe she said "I really need your help right now", and because they're family and love each other, they all went "We'll be here in fifteen minutes" because that's what family does.

I think that the fact she clearly told them to come armed gave them an idea of what’s going down.
Here’s hoping she told them the humans and Blackwing are good guys.

[Peelee]

Sigdi was given an option regarding what to spend her money on.

The parallel is referring to after both got their respective riches, not just any point in their lives. So Sigdi after getting the chest, and Hilgya after getting her clan's treasury. From thereon out, Hilgya had exactly as much option as Sigdi, is what that person was talking about.

[DougTheHead]

Geez, every single time we get a new detail about Sigdi's "family," it gets dusty in here. Really going to need to ask the janitorial staff about that...

There's something that's just beautiful about Sigdi's story, and powerful in a way the really important myths are. The idea that one woman takes a group of people who were at the very dregs of their society, people who, for one reason or another, had no one, in a highly-tribal society where family connections were everything, and gave them another chance at life... and they, in turn, chose to be her new family... all without knowing anything about each other, with no motive other than the idea that everyone deserves a family.

For whatever reason, the selflessness and grace inherent in that idea makes me choke up a lot more than "sad" scenes do.

[The_Weirdo]

I really wish Hilgya would get a visit from her god, Loki, who should give his apathetic cleric a stern talking-to. At the Godsmoot, Loki voted AGAINST the plan to destroy the world! Loki was actually on the same side as Thor, they both don't want Hel to win!


Ew, oh gods no. Hilgya shows all the signs of being a sociopath (inability to follow rules way beyond the scope of being of "chaotic alignment" or beyond being the cleric of a chaotic Trickster deity like Loki(*), to the point of going against her own best interests just to spite others) and a psychopath (lack of empathy, seeing other people as things).

Hilgya not only failed her Will save despite her cleric boni, she seems to be dumb as rocks. "I don't even know why I'm here", she complains. Uh, to save the world from being destroyed?

She is extremely selfish, approaches all social interaction in terms of economic exchange ("What do I get out of it?", "How are you useful to me?"), but projects her selfishness unto others, complaining how anyone else doesn't put her interests front and center. She does even seem to give a crap about her own child beyond a general "my child is my property, therefore I defend him" behaviour. I wonder what will happen when Kudzu grows up and as a teenager dares defy his mother's will...?

(*) Compare Hilgya with Elan, who is canonically chaotic good, or even with Belkar, who is chaotic evil... despite being chaotic both are able to work with others and able to form emotional attachments to animals and people. Hilgya isn't.

Hilgya strikes me, in fact, more as neutral evil, which is the alignment best summed up as: "I don't give a damn about anyone or anything else except my own advantage, and will betray or kill anyone to get it". She is defiant of authorities (making me wonder why she became a cleric, a class that is all about following commandments of your deity?) but she can be strong-armed by anyone with stronger willpower into trudging along, because deep down "anarchy" isn't a worldview for her as it would for a chaotic character. Instead she is more "meh, whatever, fate of the world doesn't interest me, I just want make everyone feel how put-upon I am!"

"Inability to follow rules".

What rules? Whose rules?

She has a strong emotional bond with Kudzu. You know, the ONE family she chose to have and the ONE family that never had a crossbow pointed at her.

As for being defiant of authorities, anyone with the same personal info as yourself should see value in defying authorities. Or at least understand what happens when people do not.

[Kashem]

Is anyone else afraid that 1/2 the family is going to end up dominated now?
That said, there are now at least 4 bards in the area. The last fight was the "All Clerics" fight, are we now in for the "Bards Ahoy!" fight? Are we in for seeing Domination gaze vs. Seduction? How many of them do you think have the Song of Freedom? It'd be epic to watch them repeatedly counter the dominations, and even more epic to see Belkar's comments on dwarves singing country music with their accents!

[The_Weirdo]

Re: Hilgya, I think she's going to hopefully get a lesson here in what family at its best can be, which will be especially interesting if the theory (one I lean towards myself) that the dwarf who survived the troll attack and gave Sigdi the chest of loot is a Firehelm.

While that lesson is fundamentally correct - especially, and I cannot stress this enough, given that Sigdi's family isn't by blood - I am not sure that Hilgya would be able to process that, trauma being what it is.

[Ruck]

Geez, every single time we get a new detail about Sigdi's "family," it gets dusty in here. Really going to need to ask the janitorial staff about that...

There's something that's just beautiful about Sigdi's story, and powerful in a way the really important myths are. The idea that one woman takes a group of people who were at the very dregs of their society, people who, for one reason or another, had no one, in a highly-tribal society where family connections were everything, and gave them another chance at life... and they, in turn, chose to be her new family... all without knowing anything about each other, with no motive other than the idea that everyone deserves a family.

For whatever reason, the selflessness and grace inherent in that idea makes me choke up a lot more than "sad" scenes do.

Yeah, that's some mighty tasty insight there. To crib a little from The Good Place, one of the Dwarven ideas of duty (especially as expressed by Sigdi and her newfound family) seems to be "What do we owe to each other?"

[Tobrian]

[snip the usual bull****]
No wonder you defend her, because you are the exact same type of person as Hilgya. Psychopaths will see other psychopaths as perfectly rational, after all. Your reaction to everyone around you finding you objectionable is "There must be something wrong with them, not me! I'm so misunderstood! That legitimizes anything I want to do to them as 'revenge'! Whee!"

Al lwe know about Hilgya's family comes from her one-sided rants. The one exception is the flashback to her husband that the Giant threw in, which directly contradicted Hilgya's claims; which was exactly the point, by showing us the difference between the reality and her interpretation of it for dark comedy.

You apparently admire her for having "strong convictions". Guess what, fanatics and people with paranoid delusions (just to name some examples) all have strong convictions, because their world view is in a closed loop, but that doesn't make their opinions automatically correct if they are built upon false premises.

When people like Hilgya have children, they will inevitably try to indoctrinate their children into the same delusion ("Mommy knows best."), while isolating them from society around them ("We can only trust each other!") the way cults do. And if the child tries to leave, they become angry at the child's "betrayal".

[Fyraltari]

Don’t feed the troll.

Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

[Seafarer]

Sigdi... Sigdi convinced Hilgya to leave Kudzu at the temple?!?

...she gets more badass every time she does something.

Also: vamps gon' get dunked on.

[The_Weirdo]

Al lwe know about Hilgya's family comes from her one-sided rants.

There was literally an image of a member of the Firehelms pointing a crossbow at Hilgya in order to force her to marry Ivan. The Giant confirmed that it was true.

And, again: respecting *all authority* got several places in some really hot water. I mean, for all we know, the dwarf that tried to hand Hilgya over like property to Moron was just... You know. Doing his job.

Following orders.

[Ironsmith]

Don’t feed the troll.

Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

And I have no idea what the forum equivalent of throwing acid at it would be. The occasional snide remark, I guess?

[Haluesen]

This is just one of my favorite comic updates ever. Not just in OotS, but in all web comics I have ever read. It is just too damn good! That's all I'm here to say. :smallsmile:

[The_Weirdo]

And I have no idea what the forum equivalent of throwing acid at it would be. The occasional snide remark, I guess?


Don’t feed the troll.

Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

Get with the program. This isn't me saying Hilgya slaughtering the sex trafficking ring that raised her would be justified, this is random guy shouting at me while claiming the abuse that the author states happened did not.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Theory: the wooly-haired bard with the brown hair is a student of either Thirden/"Squeaky" or Janna/"Squawky" (I'mma stickin' to that nickname 'till it stops amusing me, which will be never). I nickname him "Shrieky".

[Fyraltari]

And I have no idea what the forum equivalent of throwing acid at it would be. The occasional snide remark, I guess?

That’s what the triangle at the bottom left of each post is. Don’t worry, it’s a scroll so you should be able to use it even if you’re not cool enough to be a wizard like me.

[The_Weirdo]

That’s what the triangle at the bottom left of each post is. Don’t worry, it’s a scroll so you should be able to use it even if you’re not cool enough to be a wizard like me.

Well, I thought about using it against the guy calling me a psychopath for defending a victim of a sex trafficking ring that was smart enough to destroy it, but I'm in a good mood.

[toapat]

Also, how does Sigdi look THAT badass?

because Sigdi is awesome, and going to ruin everything in a way no one expect: Clanmother's Veto

[Fyraltari]

if you feel you should do it, then do it and don’t engage further by telling us you’ve done it. If you feel you shouldn’t do it then don’t do it and commit to it by not bringing doing it.

We are not the mods.

[Resileaf]

You know what they say, you never know how good you have it until you don't have it anymore.
And now I realize how good we had it when Hilgya didn't appear in the previous few strips.

[ti'esar]

That is a lot of reinforcements. :smallsmile:

[The_Weirdo]

if you feel you should do it, then do it and don’t engage further by telling us you’ve done it. If you feel you shouldn’t do it then don’t do it and commit to it by not bringing doing it.

We are not the mods.

You brought it up. And this time I wasn't even defending that Hilgya do anything past what she did to the sex traffickers. Or were you indirectly calling the other guy a troll, and not me?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

We've got several unnamed characters to speculate about, and yet here we are talking about Hilgya again, like we have for the last 57 comics, and I, for one, am sick of it.

Forum oldies, was this what it was like during the Miko years? How have you not gone insane and uijhnuyuyjhfgvfgvbn bn m nb bn b b
b buyjhn

[Clistenes]

I have just realized something... the vampires may have missed a very important thing...

The defensive measures of the council hall would strike down anybody who attacks somebody else inside... but the OotS has a ton of dwarven allies eager to die fighting heroically now...

[Cazero]

Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.
I think I'm going to sig that.

[zimmerwald1915]

I have just realized something... the vampires may have missed a very important thing...

The defensive measures of the council hall would strike down anybody who attacks somebody else inside... but the OotS has a ton of dwarven allies eager to die fighting heroically now...
Funny thing - in D&D, petrifaction doesn't actually kill you.

[The_Weirdo]

We've got several unnamed characters to speculate about, and yet here we are talking about Hilgya again, like we have for the last 57 comics, and I, for one, am sick of it.

Forum oldies, was this what it was like during the Miko years? How have you not gone insane and uijhnuyuyjhfgvfgvbn bn m nb bn b b
b buyjhn

Well, if only everyone could agree on the absolute truth that forced marriage is and will always be completely wrong and that it entitles the victim to redress, we'd not be in this situation.


You keep using that word. It does not mean what you pretend/claim it means.

Grey Wolf

That Ivan did not do it doesn't mean they didn't (try to) make her available. If one sells, say, drugs and the guy doesn't use them, they're still a drug dealer.

[AutomatedTeller]

Take heart: dying in battle saving a family member? What Dwarf wouldn't want to go out like that? That's, I imagine, partly why ALL of them came: Even if they die, they'll die swinging. Remember, to a Dwarf, dying at age 350, after a long and happy life, is the worst fate imaginable: The fact that you lived that long is a failure, because it means you never took the risks from which heroism is born.

Am I missing something? As far as I can tell, dwarves don't have to die heroically. They have to die honorably, in battle. There's nothing wrong with living to 350, attacking a tree root and having a heart attack.

I might have missed a long discussion in various threads about this, of course ;)

[Emperor Time]

Wow it great to see Minrah alive again. And to see them and their families fully repay Sigdi back and then some for what she did for them all those years ago.

[Mightymosy]

Don’t feed the troll.

Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.
Said so a looooong time ago =)
But good joke with the flames :-D


That’s what the triangle at the bottom left of each post is. Don’t worry, it’s a scroll so you should be able to use it even if you’re not cool enough to be a wizard like me.

I never noticed that one.
And promptly clicked on the one below your post.
Whoopsies :-)
I think it only sends if you fill out the textbox in the following page, so I think nothing happened. :-)

[Mad Humanist]

Am I missing something? As far as I can tell, dwarves don't have to die heroically. They have to die honorably, in battle. There's nothing wrong with living to 350, attacking a tree root and having a heart attack.

I might have missed a long discussion in various threads about this, of course ;)

If there was a call to help all of Dwarvenkind, you ignore it and then all of Dwarvenkind die with no chance to fight a tree (because they have also died), then you go to Hel.

[Fyraltari]

You brought it up. And this time I wasn't even defending that Hilgya do anything past what she did to the sex traffickers. Or were you indirectly calling the other guy a troll, and not me?
You are not a troll. You are looking for a fight; I used a well known sentence to express my meaning and set up a pun. I was asked what was useful against a troll/other poor behaviour / continuing on the pun and kept going in the same vein. I have not claimed that anyone should be reported here and have not reported anyone because I don’t think anyone has been too far just yet. If I choose to report someone I won’t brag about it and if I don’t I won’t gaslight (is that the right word? Or maybe something with passive-aggressiveness) them about it either. As for wether Tobrian or you were the monster in my analogy... was Victor Frankenstein or the Creature the the monster?

I think I'm going to sig that.
I’d be honoured. Glad you liked it.

[The_Weirdo]

was Victor Frankenstein or the Creature the monster?

Well, it's the 19th Century there, so everyone is. :P

[Kish]

You are not a troll. You are looking for a fight;
I believe that is the definition of trolling, actually: posting specifically to evoke an angry response.

For example, if Rich had actually written Hilgya shutting down a sex trafficking ring, I doubt very much the Weirdo would repeat that she did anywhere near as many times as he has stated that as it is.

[Fyraltari]

good joke with the flames :-D
Thank you.



I never noticed that one.
And promptly clicked on the one below your post.
Whoopsies :-)
I think it only sends if you fill out the textbox in the following page, so I think nothing happened. :-)

Like I said it’s a scroll.
I didn’t think that far into the joke but I’m rolling with it now. Bask in my brilliance!

Also go read the forum rules, they point it out.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Well, it's the 19th Century there, so everyone is. :P

jhmnn bn

-snaps out of insanity-

Oi! I have ancestors from the 19th century! Don't talk smack about my great-grandparents' great-grandparents!

How in the world can you just throw all of that humanity under the bus? How can it please you, a human, to call humanity so base? And when those generations aren't even around to defend themselves nb n jhnyjhnhgbjhngtbhjmnkjhmngvb bn bn bn bn bnbn bvbb

[Pablo360]

I know I'm going to regret poking the Hilgya discourse, but isn't saying arranged marriage is bad because it's sex trafficking kind of like saying assault is bad because it's murder? When you want to talk about how awful something is, exclusively referring to it in reference to some other worse thing obscures your point. That's not the only reason that argument is messed up but it's the most perplexing.

Anyway Hilgya is unapologetically apathetic to the feelings and safety of others and no amount of backstory is even attempting to justify that so the whole train of thought is a red herring.

[Fyraltari]

I believe that is the definition of trolling, actually: posting specifically to evoke an angry response.

For example, if Rich had actually written Hilgya shutting down a sex trafficking ring, I doubt very much the Weirdo would repeat that she did anywhere near as many times as he has stated that as it is.

The definition I know is that trolls starts fights they have no dog in and once two sides are duking it out, sit back and watch the chaos they have wrought.

[KorvinStarmast]

Also, I've never heard anybody say, "po-tah-to" except when using that phrase (and no, I'm not going to just call the whole thing off. Potahto is wrong and potato is right). Let's call the whole thing off. :smallwink:

[Fyraltari]

Example: to-may-to.

[zimmerwald1915]

How in the world can you just throw all of that humanity under the bus? How can it please you, a human, to call humanity so base?
Very easily. Fortunately, we won't be around much longer.

[Fyraltari]

What I like about zimmer is his unbridled optimism.

[Draconi Redfir]

Thundersheilds! ASSEMBLE!!!!:smallbiggrin:

[The_Weirdo]

I know I'm going to regret poking the Hilgya discourse, but isn't saying arranged marriage is bad because it's sex trafficking kind of like saying assault is bad because it's murder?

Nope.

In a forced marriage, the person forcing it is all but always also giving the husband of the unwilling bride free reign on her sexual availability. That is just a horrible fact.

[Angrith]

Well that's just plain heart-warming. All the hands she'll need indeed.

Also, i love that she knows exactly how to phrase things for Hilgya to accept them.

[Grey Watcher]

I also like that there's a third lute-wielding dwarf: Squeaky's apprentice has an apprentice of her own?

[Cazero]

How in the world can you just throw all of that humanity under the bus? How can it please you, a human, to call humanity so base?By acknowledging that I would definitely be just as bad if I had with the same upbringing they had.
Many (if not most) of our ancestors were horrible people. There is a crapton of horrible humans alive right now. Heck, I scare myself sometimes with the horrible thoughts I don't act upon. Lying to ourselves about it won't make things any better.

Example: to-may-to.Excuse me, dear sir, but I believe you mean to-mah-to.

[KorvinStarmast]

Honestly, what is the likelihood that Sigdi doesn't have Improved Single Weapon Fighting after all these years? Low, given that Sarge led armed patrols for a number of years.
Geez, every single time we get a new detail about Sigdi's "family," it gets dusty in here. Really going to need to ask the janitorial staff about that... For whatever reason, the selflessness and grace inherent in that idea makes me choke up a lot more than "sad" scenes do. Yep, I have a few leaks here that I need to see someone about. :smallcool:

Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either. But it can feel cathartic, for a moment. :smallyuk:
How have you not gone insane Uh, on a saner forum, we would not need Jasdoif's index. From that premise, I have determined that we are all insane. Reminds me of a Jimmy Buffet lyric ... (If we weren't all crazy we'd just go insane...)
I believe that is the definition of trolling, actually: posting specifically to evoke an angry response. For example, if Rich had actually written Hilgya shutting down a sex trafficking ring, I doubt very much the Weirdo would repeat that she did anywhere near as many times as he has stated that as it is. We have a winner.
I know I'm going to regret poking the Hilgya discourse, but isn't saying arranged marriage is bad because it's sex trafficking kind of like saying assault is bad because it's murder? When you want to talk about how awful something is, exclusively referring to it in reference to some other worse thing obscures your point. That's not the only reason that argument is messed up but it's the most perplexing. Hyperbole is, as often as not, a lie as a means to make a point by overstatement. Consider the source.

Example: to-may-to. To-mah-to (https://www.google.com/search?q=Let%27s%20call%20the%20whole%20thing%20of f&cad=h). :smallfurious:

[Rogar Demonblud]

I wonder what will happen when Kudzu grows up and as a teenager dares defy his mother's will...?

Teenager? She's going to murder him by the Terrible Twos at the latest.

And Hilgya is capital C Chaotic all the way, else there's be no Chaos Hammer or Anarchic Giraffes.

[Fyraltari]

I also like that there's a third lute-wielding dwarf: Squeaky's apprentice has an apprentice of her own?
Either that or she graduated and he needed money.

By acknowledging that I would definitely be just as bad if I had with the same upbringing they had.
Many (if not most) of our ancestors were horrible people. There is a crapton of horrible humans alive right now. Heck, I scare myself sometimes with the horrible thoughts I don't act upon. Lying to ourselves about it won't make things any better.
Pretending to be worse than we are, however does make things worse.

Excuse me, dear sir, but I believe you mean to-mah-to.
Do not feed the example.

[Ironsmith]

Excuse me, dear sir, but I believe you mean to-mah-to.

Toe-mayah-toa, guys. It ain't that complicated. :smalltongue:

[Rogar Demonblud]

jhmnn bn

--snip--

nb n jhnyjhnhgbjhngtbhjmnkjhmngvb bn bn bn bn bnbn bvbb

If Nihhus ends up summoning Great Cthulhu, I'm blaming Weirdo.

[Kish]

And Hilgya is capital C Chaotic all the way, else there's be no Chaos Hammer or Anarchic Giraffes.
Sure there could be; she's barred from casting spells directly opposed to her alignment, but a Neutral Evil cleric (Tsukiko, say) could freely cast Chaotic and Lawful spells, just not Good ones.

That said, Hilgya strikes me as really blatantly Chaotic Evil, with neither axis in question.

[The_Weirdo]

If Nihhus ends up summoning Great Cthulhu, I'm blaming Weirdo.

Being blamed for things other people do isn't exactly novel to me. :smalltongue:

[KorvinStarmast]

Toe-mayah-toa, guys. It ain't that complicated. :smalltongue: Gollum voice
It's taters, Precious!

[Rrmcklin]

I'm really not understanding why Sigdi's reasoning is still being debated, she flat out said it. She didn't want Durkon to waste a powerful spell on her when something so important is going on, and even without that she's not sure if she'd want it back because she's gotten so used to being without it (which is a real thing, by the way).

Why are people still insisting the "real reason" is because "she never let go"?

[Fyraltari]

If Nihhus ends up summoning Great Cthulhu, I'm blaming Weirdo.

We’ll be fine as long as nobody writes Y'golonac.

[The_Weirdo]

We’ll be fine as long as nobody writes Y'golonac.

You just did.

[Jasdoif]

And Hilgya is capital C Chaotic all the way, else there's be no Chaos Hammer or Anarchic Giraffes.Sure there could be; she's barred from casting spells directly opposed to her alignment, but a Neutral Evil cleric (Tsukiko, say) could freely cast Chaotic and Lawful spells, just not Good ones.Chaos hammer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chaosHammer.htm) isn't on the standard cleric list; it's only available via the Chaos domain, and a cleric can only select an alignment domain if it matches their own alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm#deityDomainsandDomainSpells).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The definition I know is that trolls starts fights they have no dog in and once two sides are duking it out, sit back and watch the chaos they have wrought.

I have known several definitions of trolling. The one that applies to this forum is, as per the Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1):


Trolling
Any post or comment that, in the judgment of the Moderators, was made solely or primarily to incite angry responses and/or flames or attempts to disrupt a thread so that it becomes a flame war will be edited to remove the offending content and the poster issued an Infraction. If a thread is judged to have been started for this reason, it will be locked, and the poster issued an Infraction.

In particular, editing a quote of another user's post to insult the poster or to make the other user's words appear misleading, inflammatory, or insulting is considered trolling, and any such modified quotes will be removed and an Infraction issued.

Also, comments that are pointless negation of the purpose of a thread ("threadcrapping") or comments predicting the thread will end badly ("doomsaying") are also likely to be trolling.


I know I'm going to regret poking the Hilgya discourse, but isn't saying arranged marriage is bad because it's sex trafficking kind of like saying assault is bad because it's murder? When you want to talk about how awful something is, exclusively referring to it in reference to some other worse thing obscures your point. That's not the only reason that argument is messed up but it's the most perplexing.

Oh, it's worse than that. For Hilgya to have "destroyed a sex trafficking operation" would require her to have stopped future arranged marriages and terminated the ones that were already in place. She did neither. In fact, by bankrupting the clan, she ensured that they'd have to marry off even more of the members of the family to try to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.

Only in The_weirdo's mind is what Hilgya did in any way good for any of the people married into the family. In reality, before they were married against their will to what was at least a wealthy lifestyle. Now, they are still married against their will, and in poverty. Progress? Not at all.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

Panel 8: foreshadowing.
"I don't know, strap a shield to it?"

Someone mentioned a Rich B cameo, but the only bespectacled dwarf in the stampede of dwarves has golden, not red, hair.

For Hilgya to have "destroyed a sex trafficking operation" would require her to have stopped future arranged marriages and terminated the ones that were already in place. She did neither. In fact, by bankrupting the clan, she ensured that they'd have to marry off even more of the members of the family to try to dig themselves out of the hole they are in. Yeah. (Related to my point earlier on about hyperbole and truth having an uneasy relationship (at best), thanks for going into detail).

[HouseRules]

"I don't know, strap a thundershield to it?"

Joke: Fixed it for you.

[Cazero]

Toe-mayah-toa, guys. It ain't that complicated. :smalltongue:
Pistols at dawn.
I'd offer to gut each others with swords like civilized people, but you pronounce it toe-mayah-toa.

[The_Weirdo]

Oh, it's worse than that. For Hilgya to have "destroyed a sex trafficking operation" would require her to have stopped future arranged marriages and terminated the ones that were already in place. She did neither. In fact, by bankrupting the clan, she ensured that they'd have to marry off even more of the members of the family to try to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.

Only in The_weirdo's mind is what Hilgya did in any way good for any of the people married into the family. In reality, before they were married against their will to what was at least a wealthy lifestyle. Now, they are still married against their will, and in poverty. Progress? Not at all.

Grey Wolf

Oh, that is rich. You spent months arguing for Hilgya's personal responsibility in reacting to what the clan did to her, and now that they are penniless, your first response is that they'll have to marry off more people? Can't they work to get money, like any normal person?

[Fyraltari]

You just did.

—————— The Joke —————>






Your head

[Ruck]

Well, if only everyone could agree on the absolute truth that forced marriage is and will always be completely wrong and that it entitles the victim to redress, we'd not be in this situation.
Not only has that never been your argument, given how frequently you've expressed that your feelings here are driven and justified by your personal experiences, you've got no claim to be arbiting "absolute" anything.

[KorvinStarmast]

Joke: Fixed it for you. Well played, I was pondering whether or not I should fold Thundershield into it, and you took care of that for me. Thanks for Helping Out. Team Win! :smallbiggrin:

[Grey_Wolf_c]

toe-mayah-toa.

Wait, so the giant crab in Moana was named after a fruit?


Oh, that is rich. You spent months arguing for Hilgya's personal responsibility in reacting to what the clan did to her, and now that they are penniless, your first response is that they'll have to marry off more people? Can't they work to get money, like any normal person?

"Have to"? No. Will they? Yes. Because nothing Hilgya did will stop them from doing so.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

Wait, so the giant crab in Moana was named after a fruit?

Grey Wolf Oddly enough, in slang back in the black and white film era 1, "tomato" was often a reference to a pretty lady. (Getta load of that tomatah!) and I now find that "mayah" is slang for a pretty lady as well. The insertion of mayah into To-ma-to up there (toe-mayah-toa) may have been a sly ref, or an accident, but I find the coincidence both amusing and interesting.

Urban Dictionary: Mayah
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mayah
Mayah is the most sexy girl you can meet although a Mayah can be sassy at times and a drama queen But if you ever meet a Mayah hold on to her you will ...


1Slang meaning "an attractive girl" is recorded from 1929, on notion of juicy plumpness (https://www.etymonline.com/word/tomato)

[The_Weirdo]

"Have to"? No. Will they? Yes. Because nothing Hilgya did will stop them from doing so.

Well, you did say "have to", so I kinda worked with what you said.

And you also just offered a great argument for her to merely kill them all.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

you also just offered a great argument for her to merely kill them all.

Strange, that's the kind of thing only a complete psychopath would say. I certainly offered nothing of the sort.

Grey Wolf

[The_Weirdo]

Strange, that's the kind of thing only a complete psychopath would say. I certainly offered nothing of the sort.

Well, if they're all dead, they won't be marrying people off, will they?

[KorvinStarmast]

Well, you did say "have to", so I kinda worked with what you said.

And you also just offered a great argument for her to merely kill them all. Of course, you had to get back to mass murder as the default solution, for which you provide justification (in your view) ... which makes me offer a suggestion: why not choose :vaarsuvius: as your avatar. It seems apt.

[Fyraltari]

I have known several definitions of trolling. The one that applies to this forum is, as per the Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1):

Watch out! Prescriptivism!

[Anarion]

The appearance of the dwarf family armed and ready to go was a really nice moment, totally gives me some chills. Well done, Giant. Now I'm terribly worried for them though.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Sure there could be; she's barred from casting spells directly opposed to her alignment, but a Neutral Evil cleric (Tsukiko, say) could freely cast Chaotic and Lawful spells, just not Good ones.

That said, Hilgya strikes me as really blatantly Chaotic Evil, with neither axis in question.


Chaos hammer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chaosHammer.htm) isn't on the standard cleric list; it's only available via the Chaos domain, and a cleric can only select an alignment domain if it matches their own alignment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm#deityDomainsandDomainSpells).

Also, any summons match your own alignment, so Anarchic Giraffes can only be summoned by a chaotic. Plus, she uses anarchic water.

[The_Weirdo]

Of course, you had to get back to mass murder as the default solution, for which you provide justification (in your view) ... which makes me offer a suggestion: why not choose :vaarsuvius: as your avatar. It seems apt.

That very same jurisprudence would see a lot of people on the other side of the debate banned, too.

And, well, the goal here is to prevent more forced marriages, no?

[KorvinStarmast]

Also, any summons match your own alignment, so Anarchic Giraffes can only be summoned by a chaotic. Plus, she uses anarchic water. Flame Strike knows no alignment, however, which is another of its virtues. :smallsmile:

[Hemoparty]

This comic is an absolute treasure.

...Though, trying to solve a vampire problem by throwing a horde of bodies at it. I hope that doesn't backfire. I feel like maybe we've had enough drama for this book and I just want some triumph.


Nice to see how things progressed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1086.html). At first I wondered if the caster was Logann's mother, but then I realized it was probably his sister. I see Shirra's Twin sons grew up too, and their parents are in the back as well...

Wow, talk about continuity! I'm seeing a bunch of people in 1162 that I don't see in 1086, but it's nice that the only people missing from 1086 here are Logann's mom (what's with her not even having a name?) and "top-and-bottom" (who might not even be with the family judging by his neutral expression and being partly off-panel).

[zimmerwald1915]

Are we doing this again? I don't think I have the energy.

[Squire Doodad]

Hell yes! HEL yes!

The "50 mostly low-to-mid level dwarves go fight the vampries" plan does work kinda, but man I hope they all got toenail clippings beforehand so everyone can be resurrected. Everyone chips in, since they seem to have at least 6 adventurer family members (the bards of which might be broke, so maybe less) then that means they can afford a couple for free and then it'd be appropriate for Hilgya to end up spending a portion of her sudden wealth on reviving a couple members of her newfound semi-adoptive sorta-family.

Related: Does Minrah's resisting DomGaze vs. Hilgya not resisting it suggest that Minrah has high Will while Hilgya has a low one? This is becuase Hilgya is fairly high level, not necessarily as much as the Order's best (Durkon doesn't count due to double rez) but pretty high, and Minrah is pretty low. Or was it probably just an unlucky roll?

Also sorta Related: it seems like Hilgya has a long road to walk to being Neutral (or to being a Neutral without major Evil tendencies depending on where she is now), but it looks like Sigdi is going to be a mentor leading her there, as opposed to Durkon or anyone in the Order.

[The_Weirdo]

It's wrong to claim that Sigdi is all wholesome and nice while Hilgya is a horrible person because of how they deal with their respective families. While Sigdi is all wholesome and nice, so is her chosen family; she earned what she got by making a choice. However, and this is the entire point, Hilgya was never given a choice. Her clan was always evil, rotten to the core and willing and eager to force her into a marriage she did not want. There can be no "wholesome and nice" with people like these.

Sigdi had the chance to form bonds Hilgya never had a chance to. Good for Sigdi, and it may well end up teaching Hilgya that family isn't only oppression - and that family isn't only blood, and even that a family is only a family if they do not try to force you into marriage. But we can't pretend that it's Hilgya's fault that she deals with family how she does - not even Sigdi does.


Related: Does Minrah's resisting DomGaze vs. Hilgya not resisting it suggest that Minrah has high Will while Hilgya has a low one? This is becuase Hilgya is fairly high level, not necessarily as much as the Order's best (Durkon doesn't count due to double rez) but pretty high, and Minrah is pretty low. Or was it probably just an unlucky roll?

Whatever else one may think of Hilgya, her Will save is likely quite high: Clerics have Will as one of their strong saves and need a high Wis score to cast the higher-level spells. You can even claim she doesn't act like she has a high Wis score, but acting different from your sheet is very common in OOTS. All in all, all signs point to a bad roll.

[The Aboleth]

Well, if only everyone could agree on the absolute truth that forced marriage is and will always be completely wrong and that it entitles the victim to redress, we'd not be in this situation.

Considering your definition of "redress" over these many months has ranged from murder to outright genocide, I don't blame people for not accepting your viewpoint about...well, anything.

Forced marriage is bad. Some things are worse. Doing the worse things to avenge the bad thing doesn't make the worse things good OR better.

[The_Weirdo]

Considering your definition of "redress" over these many months has ranged from murder to outright genocide, I don't blame people for not accepting your viewpoint about...well, anything.

Forced marriage is bad. Some things are worse. Doing the worse things to avenge the bad thing doesn't make the worse things good OR better.

Well, GW did just go "Oh, but bankrupting the clan is bad, it'll make them marry more people off!".

Now, what is the easiest, most efficient way to stop it from doing that?

[Doug Lampert]

Hell yes! HEL yes!

The "50 mostly low-to-mid level dwarves go fight the vampries" plan does work kinda, but man I hope they all got toenail clippings beforehand so everyone can be resurrected.


Resurrection
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 7
Casting Time: 10 minutes
This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death.

Note the bold. It's been part of the spell for at least 15 years.

[Sir_Galliant]

' An eye for an eye.' The rule was created long ago to prevent over the top revenge. Even so, there is a good reason it isn't used in modernity.

[The Aboleth]

Well, GW did just go "Oh, but bankrupting the clan is bad, it'll make them marry more people off!".

Now, what is the easiest, most efficient way to stop it from doing that?

Are you going for what is easy/efficient, or for what will harm the least amount of innocent people while still bringing justice to the victim?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way. I already know where you stand.

[Elenna]

Sigdi is the best. :smallbiggrin:

[Squire Doodad]

I'm really not understanding why Sigdi's reasoning is still being debated, she flat out said it. She didn't want Durkon to waste a powerful spell on her when something so important is going on, and even without that she's not sure if she'd want it back because she's gotten so used to being without it (which is a real thing, by the way).

Why are people still insisting the "real reason" is because "she never let go"?

:julio: It made for a better story

And besides, having those extra limbs again adds more weight! How are you supposed to don your 75 layers of clothing that apply stacked buffs if you have to deal with an extra arm's worth of weight?


Note the bold. It's been part of the spell for at least 15 years.

Ah, never knew that.


Well, GW did just go "Oh, but bankrupting the clan is bad, it'll make them marry more people off!".

Now, what is the easiest, most efficient way to stop it from doing that?

Bankrupt them, then once they are bankrupt and looking for handouts...force them to go to Olive Garden for dinner every day and watch an in-depth, 3 hour long PowerWord:Point(tm) presentation on why marrying people off is bad. Soon enough they'll give up and be willing to stop marrying people off if it means they can stop going to your dinner events.

[Leirus]

I get the sense that spending time around with Sigdi would spruce up Hilgya alignment but fast.

[understatement]

Killing them? Isn't that kind of bad?

[Squire Doodad]

I take the time to edit my post instead of double posting and two people post in the mean time XD

[The_Weirdo]

Bankrupt them, then once they are bankrupt and looking for handouts...force them to go to Olive Garden for dinner every day and watch an in-depth, 3 hour long PowerWord:Point(tm) presentation on why marrying people off is bad. Soon enough they'll give up and be willing to stop marrying people off if it means they can stop going to your dinner events.

Hmmm. Does have its merits...

[Ruck]

Heh, I just realized the reason Minrah is so skittish about / distressed by Hilgya's Flame Strike is that the last one she saw killed her.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It's that kind of thread, Squire Doodad.

[Squire Doodad]

Hmmm. Does have its merits...

Before you get any ideas, I mean non-violently force. Y'know, pester them with prospect of free food until they say yes.


Heh, I just realized the reason Minrah is so skittish about / distressed by Hilgya's Flame Strike is that the last one she saw killed her.

Oh. Oh
Ouch, that sucks...

[Fyraltari]

Heh, I just realized the reason Minrah is so skittish about / distressed by Hilgya's Flame Strike is that the last one she saw killed her.

That's also why she's pissed in panel 2.

[MReav]

Considering your definition of "redress" over these many months has ranged from murder to outright genocide, I don't blame people for not accepting your viewpoint about...well, anything.

Zeon stands for Spacenoid Freedom!
explanation: Zeon is a faction in Mobile Suit Gundam, whose claim to fame is despite claiming they wanted freedom for the Spacenoids, i.e.: people living in space, they proceeded to kill roughly 4 billion people in the span of a week, mostly Spacenoids. This constituted about a third of the total number of people alive at the time.

[Sian]

... I don't think Elan packed enough "I'm Participating" badges for this mission

[JohnnyTurbo]

I see two bards and an arcane main caster... rare for dwarves.

[Squire Doodad]

I see two bards and an arcane main caster... rare for dwarves.

Three actually, if you look close enough. Then again, that is probably Squeaky, his student, and his student's student's...uh...um...
Anyways
Do you think the caster is a Sorcerer or a Wizard? There are Clerics in the Dwarven world, many actually, but are there any signs of arcane study being frequent?


... I don't think Elan packed enough "I'm Participating" badges for this mission

But all of the +1s could turn the tide!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Well, GW did just go "Oh, but bankrupting the clan is bad, it'll make them marry more people off!".

No, I said that what Hilgya did in no way accomplished your claim of having "destroy[ed] a sex trafficking ring".

In future, refrain from attempting to put words in my mouth.

Grey Wolf

[Doug Lampert]

Zeon stands for Spacenoid Freedom!
explanation: Zeon is a faction in Mobile Suit Gundam, whose claim to fame is despite claiming they wanted freedom for the Spacenoids, i.e.: people living in space, they proceeded to kill roughly 4 billion people in the span of a week, mostly Spacenoids. This constituted about a third of the total number of people alive at the time.

Hey, Red Cloak would fit right in with them. He'll kill, maim, or utterly destroy the soul of as many actual goblins as it takes to bring freedom and prosperity to goblin kind.

And it doesn't matter how many peaceful and prosperous groups of goblins that are living in peace with their neighbors he runs into, he will STILL be convinced that they desperately need his "help" to be peaceful and prosperous.

[Fishybugs]

I think this post should have been named "Helping Hand". A little more on-brand for Sigdi.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It'd give away the joke.

[Leftour]

Minrah developed flamestrikephobia! Hilarious and totally understandable given her previous experience.

Looks like PDSD (post death stress disorder) is a thing in stickverse...