OOTS #564 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Ganurath]

Let us have a decisive fulfillment to Belkar's prophecy!

[Shott]

Excellent comic Giant. I completely forgot the Oracle could help.

[Monation]

Nice thinking on Haley's part.
Didn't get the joke in the last panel though...

[Yendor]

Wait, wait, wait. How does Haley remember the cleric, with the memory spell over the valley?

(And it's 564.)

[Timberboar]

Now where have I seen that mouth before...

Oh yeah! http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0324.html

We're off to see the Oracle, the wonderful Oracle of Tiamat!

[Alex Knight]

Technically, it's #564, not #464. :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, one wonders if the amnesia field surrounding the valley is going to affect them again somehow....

[DrivinAllNight]

shouldn't it be 564? But other than that, great comic, much needed after my day of no good car issues, now i need a horse and cart :)

[Timberboar]

Wait, wait, wait. How does Haley remember the cleric, with the memory spell over the valley?

(And it's 564.)

Well, she remembers there is an oracle because she knew what she was going in to find the first time. Now, as far as DETAILS, prolly not. So Oracle? Check. Kobold? Not so much.

[FoE]

The Oracle is a cleric? I thought he was just a vessel for Tiamat's will or something.

[Kol Korran]

back to the oracle now? excellent! this looks to be interesting. i wonder if they'll pass the "all you can eat" hydra buffet, and the other tests. (maybe there are new ones?) but mostly the interaction with the oracle intrigues... perhaps new prphecies as well? and will roy be raised allready?

a nice twist in events Giant.

[BlueHelmet]

fine one, giant.

[horus02]

Why? Why, oh why, can't you solve any problem with a cracker?

Ooooohhhh.... they could really have thought of that earlier, blame on you Haley. (just a joke... I would never have thought of that^^)

Also, good to see Celia again... i was begining to wonder where she'd be... but of course, vegetarian.

And I have to admit... I really love this oracle^^

[Shadic]

Are we going to get Roy back soon, then? :smallbiggrin:

[Corwin Weber]

Wait, wait, wait. How does Haley remember the cleric, with the memory spell over the valley?

(And it's 564.)

I'm wondering that myself. How does she remember that the Oracle is a cleric?

[vegetalss4]

is it just me or did that magic mouth keep speaking since they where there last?
of to see the oracle, the vyre wonderful oracle. however now that roy isen't here... ... who is going to stop belkar from killing him(the oracle that is)?

[Timberboar]

I'm wondering that myself. How does she remember that the Oracle is a cleric?

The primary definition of Oracle is one through whom a deity speaks. Cleric is kinda implied.

[SPoD]

I'm wondering that myself. How does she remember that the Oracle is a cleric?

She may be just assuming. Remember, everyone filled in the details of the trip with their own image of what the oracle looked like. To Haley, oracle = cleric.

[Porthos]

Now that's some nice lateral thinking right there.

Too bad the Oracle is such a mizerly little so and so. :smallamused:

Still, this lets us get more wiseacre comments from him, so I await it with breathless anticipation. :smallbiggrin:

[Yendor]

Not the Oracle. This guy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0328.html)

[North]

Yeah was trying to figure out what they meant.

[teratorn]

I need coffee (and crackers). I thought she was going to look the donkey pulling the cart in the mouth...

[Morgan Wick]

Hmm... I'm remembering Belkar's prophecy right now...

Dun dun DUN!!!

Perhaps Haley finds out the Oracle isn't really a cleric, or if he is he won't or can't help them, and Belkar kills him in response, resulting in more Celia-Haley-Belkar tension... until they leave the valley?


Not the Oracle. This guy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0328.html)

No, they wouldn't remember that guy. Memory charm, remember?

I was going to say it was interesting that Haley would remember the Oracle from the "gift horse in the mouth" prophecy, implying that prophecy was being fulfilled NOW, when we all thought she had asked how she would get her voice back. Until I noticed what reminded her of that prophecy. Until that point, this strip seemed somewhat disjointed. I honestly did not notice that line until it was pointed out below and I still took some time to notice it, thanks to being off to the side and dwarfed by Haley's line in the same panel.

[Martok]

Heh. This should be interesting. I too wonder if Belkar's prophecy will come true here....

[Ghastly Epigram]

Did not see that one coming I must say, though as soon as I read Belkar's parrot line I knew something was up. Nice twist. Of course, this could be the definitive fulfilling of Belkar's prophecy if he causes the Oracle's death somehow. But we shall see.

I also like comics like this were the vicious side of Belkar's personality does not shine through so much. Makes him seem more like a person, albeit still callous and shallow.

[Bitzeralisis]

Ooh, Oracle.

[Porthos]

Not the Oracle. This guy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0328.html)

She shouldn't remember him/it though, right?

Anyway, if it is the Oracle Haley is thinking of, and if the card game is showing the same character on one of the cards, then

the Oracle is a Shaman. Does anyone remember if Shamans (if that is actually a PC class) get ressurection magic or not?

[Yendor]

No, they wouldn't remember that guy. Memory charm, remember?

Um, yes. That was exactly my point.

[the_tick_rules]

poor kobold, we know how belkar and him get along.

[Porthos]

I was going to say it was interesting that Haley would remember the Oracle from the "gift horse in the mouth" prophecy.....

That is a great point. That cinches it for me: Haley is definitely thinking of the Oracle.

Haley Logic Train: Belkar says "don't look a gift parrot in the beak".
That phrase reminds Haley of the last time she remembered hearing it (from the mouth of the Oracle).
Oracle = Cleric.
Let's cut a huge swath of time and shake down visit the Oracle again.

I doff my virtual cap to you, sir. :smallsmile:

[Porthos]

Um, yes. That was exactly my point.

She's not remembering the medic, she's thinking that the Oracle is a Cleric.

Is she right? Time will tell. :smallsmile:

[Liwen]

I wonder if Haley knows that Belkar has a 1 out of 2 chance of killing the oracle. Miko is death, her horse inaccessible, Roy is death and many believe it to be Belkar's fault but he never exactly made the act of killing Roy and so I think it doesn't count. He could also try to kill V, but she's at the other end of the world right now and she/he/it/whatever is a main character.

Poor Oracle. I wonder if he's gonna be there, knowing that Belkar will kill him.

[SPoD]

Um, yes. That was exactly my point.

I think, if I'm reading you correctly, that you think the undead doctor is the cleric Haley remembered, and are thus confused about how that's possible. I don't think the undead doctor guy is anyone important, and certainly isn't a cleric just because he can take a blood pressure reading.

Instead, consider that it is the Oracle himself, who prays to Tiamat for his answers, that Haley remembered--because the only thing she actually DOES remember properly is the answer she was given ("When the gift horse comes calling, don't look it in the mouth"), which is what triggers her change-of-plans in this strip.

[dogmac]

Good thinking Haley!

We're off to see the Oracle
The wonderful Oracle of oots....

[H. Zee]

Wow, that's...unexpected. I genuinely thought the Oracle was a one-appearance-only character.

Hm. I'm intrigued as to where exactly all this is headed.

[Porthos]

Wow, that's...unexpected. I genuinely thought the Oracle was a one-appearance-only character.

(Slight SoD spoilers)

He has a cameo in Start of Darkness as well. And it's just as hilarious as his initial visit.

That's why I'm looking forward to this so much. He's one of my favorite NPCs in the entire strip. :smallsmile:

[EvilJames]

Um, yes. That was exactly my point.

could you elaborate on that? I'm not sure I understand your point.:smallconfused:

[Bubbles]

You know... the Magic Mouth actually finishes its speech from 324 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0324.html) without missing a beat in that last panel.

[Paragon Badger]

Just what this forums needs- more prophecies/wild mass guessing. :smalltongue:

[The Extinguisher]

Oh that zany magic mouth.

I can't wait. The oracle is made of love.

[BooTheHamster]

I wonder if Haley knows that Belkar has a 1 out of 2 chance of killing the oracle. Miko is death, her horse inaccessible, Roy is death and many believe it to be Belkar's fault but he never exactly made the act of killing Roy and so I think it doesn't count. He could also try to kill V, but she's at the other end of the world right now and she/he/it/whatever is a main character.

Poor Oracle. I wonder if he's gonna be there, knowing that Belkar will kill him.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

According to the question, Belkar only needs to cause the death of one of there people, not necessarily kill them himself. Technically speaking, by giving Roy the Ring of Jumping +20, Belkar caused Roy's death, albeit indirectly. Or so the theory goes, I believe. Not saying that's definitive, but it's a reasonable conclusion. Plus I like the Oracle,i don't want him to die...:smallfrown:

Also, awesome comic, as always. I can't wait until the next.

[Oberon]

Nice thinking on Haley's part.
Didn't get the joke in the last panel though...

The last panel is the mouth finishing what it started to say at the end of comic 324.

"Erections lasting longer than four hours..."

[Frosty]

The last panel is the mouth finishing what it started to say at the end of comic 324.

"Erections lasting longer than four hours..."

Darn. Ninja'ed :smallyuk:

But hey, at least someone else got the joke.

[David Argall]

An interesting development, which may keep the parties apart for some time.

Possible ideas
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html
the kobold wants to be paid, and Haley has implied she is broke. It could be that Haley is going to have some more vocal problems in her future.
Last time we got the hint that Belkar "should savor his next birthday cake". Does the kobold know Belkar is about to dice him? And serves Belkar some birthday cake?


Now what are the questions going to be?
Belkar: Do I get to kill you? or V?
K: Neither.

Celia: How do I get Roy raised?
K: Take his body to the nearest 13th cleric level and pay 10,000 gp
C: But where is that cleric?
K: Next

Haley: How do I get back to Elan?
K: giberish maybe "trust the false" referring to Nale or Therkla.

[Red XIV]

I would think the Oracle would take take steps to avoid it if he knew Belkar was going to kill him. Not to mention, he's probably fairly high-level anyway.

[Oberon]

Darn. Ninja'ed :smallyuk:

But hey, at least someone else got the joke.

Buwhahahahahaha!

[Forealms]

Well, she remembers there is an oracle because she knew what she was going in to find the first time. Now, as far as DETAILS, prolly not. So Oracle? Check. Kobold? Not so much.

You just gave me an idea! (Belkar and Haley don't know Miko is dead, right?)

This is Belkar's question this time 'round.

"Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Vaarsuvius, Celia, Haley, or you?"

Haley, of course, will ask something reasonable. :smallannoyed:

Celia will ask something completely in line with the personality she has portrayed up to and including this point.

[T-Ice]

Haha. Metagaming on random encounters ruining the parrots last chance for posthumous succes. Typical players that are too "smart" for their own good. Good one for a change :smallbiggrin:

[Max_Sinister]

Now that was a nice idea. I wonder what questions they'll ask this time. If they have the money for that. Or will they have to do a sidequest instead? Or won't they ask any questions at all, just raise Roy?

[dish]

will they have to do a sidequest instead? Or won't they ask any questions at all, just raise Roy?

I'm sure the oracle would never dream of raising Roy without payment in advance.

I also like the oracle, both online and in SoD. I do hope Belkar doesn't happen to him.

[MasterDinadan]

I would think the Oracle would take take steps to avoid it if he knew Belkar was going to kill him. Not to mention, he's probably fairly high-level anyway.

If the Oracle can predict his own future than can the Oracle change it?
I doubt it. It's not much of a prophecy if you can change it just by knowing about it.

[banjo1985]

Oh dear gods, they're relying on the Oracle?! :smalleek:

Poor OotS, they really must be desperate :smallbiggrin:

[Sc00by]

So, they aren't going to see the oracle because he'll know where Durkon is then?

[SteveMB]

An interesting development, which may keep the parties apart for some time.

Possible ideas
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html
the kobold wants to be paid, and Haley has implied she is broke.

Huh? If you're referring to Haley saying that there's no point in her asking a question, the obvious interpretation is that Haley doesn't expect the Oracle to be able to understand her (nobody else does, and she probably hasn't thought through the full implications of the "Oracle" thing).

[pendell]

Now that was AWESOME. Especially the last panel.

I hope the Giant doesn't take this the wrong way, but I've been gritting my teeth through the Elan/Vaarsuvius/Durkon arc. Haley/Belkar/Celia are, IMO, comedy GOLD. I dunno why I react that way, but I do. Maybe it's because I'm too much of a Roy ... Elan's clueless/zany schtick just makes me grind my teeth when it's not counterbalanced by a straight man. Elan needs a Roy to work, at least for me, and Durkon just doesn't have enough high charisma to pull it off. I did like Elan sparring with Hinjo ... I thought those panels were hilarious ... but there hasn't been much Hinjo around lately.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[HOLEkevin]

Here's to hoping that the Oracle is a cleric!

[Roderick_BR]

The Oracle is a cleric? I thought he was just a vessel for Tiamat's will or something.
I tought he was specialist diviner wizard. Maybe he has a PrC for one of those diviner cleric classes.

[happyturtle]

I tought he was specialist diviner wizard. Maybe he has a PrC for one of those diviner cleric classes.

He went into a trance and spoke to Tiamat, which implies a divine spell rather than an arcane one. Most (if not all) of the divination spells are on the cleric spell list, so no PrC's required.

[Grunjon]

So, they're going to see the Oracle. I agree that the Oracle is a form of cleric, and so he could raise Roy. Or Haley could be thinking that he's one, anyway.

In 564, she specifically said "We already know a cleric in the area", so she's not planning to ask the Oracle to help her find one. Sounds like she certainly believes the Oracle to be a cleric.

And yeah, she wouldn't remember the undead guy from the "test of the heart", due to the memory spell over the valley. She only remembers asking the Oracle a question and getting an answer.

Her question, it should be noted, was "Bfqe zqp M rt et fjketfj wi kljjzf?" Or, translated, was "What can I do to restore my speech?" The Oracle answered "When the gift horse comes calling, don't look it in the mouth."

Which reminds me all over again that no cartoon past #300 is in a book form yet. When, oh when, do we get Volume 3!? :smallsmile:

Belkar did, in my mind, cause the death of Roy by giving him the ring of jumping, so I've thought of his prophecy as fulfilled for a long time now. I don't think the Oracle has anything to worry about. As for the part a few comics earlier than his paid-for prophecy, where the Oracle rambled a bit and mentioned that Belkar should enjoy his next birthday cake: in our world over a year has passed, but I don't think that much time has passed in the OotS universe. Maybe, but very doubtful.

IF (and that's a bit if) they do indeed try to get prophecies from the Oracle, or if they need to pay him to raise Roy (about time!), then don't forget that it's been shown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html) that the Oracle takes payment via 4 ways: Cash (no electrum), Immortal Souls, Magic Beans, Your Voice. So the above poster who implied Haley could be losing her voice again hit the nail on the head. Unless she's got magic beans in that bag of hers, of course. :smallbiggrin:

IF Roy gets raised by the Oracle, then I wonder if he'll try to use any of those forms of payment to ask the Oracle a question. Or, he could just dangle the kobold out of the window again...

[Jimorian]

I just wanna see what happens if Haley runs into these guys (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0327.html) again. :smallbiggrin:

[Blaznak]

Will Polly have to enter a 12 step program to get over saltines? Wouldn't it be called a 12 wing program?

Only in OOTS would we see that a parrot saying "Polly wants a cracker" is indicative of a darker problem :)

Later!

[RebelRogue]

If you're nursing, pregnant or might become pregnant, you shouldn't visit the Oracle!
Well, it sure adds a twist to the "Is Celia pregnant?" theory :smallbiggrin:

Nice strip!

[Skaven]

Let us have a decisive fulfillment to Belkar's prophecy!

Belkar already fulfilled his prophecy. He was responsible for the death of Roy.

[Mad Scientist]

V is going to be so mad when s/he learns they roasted and ate the messenger birds. The group reunion will certainly be interesting.

[Sir_Leorik]

Ah, a return to the Oracle! I wonder what activity of the holy vessel of Tiamat will be interupted this time! (Both bath time and a date have been shown; my bet is that either his mother will be visiting, or he's playing GTA IV.)

And no, saltines do not solve one's problems; I've learned that the hard way.

[Mauve Shirt]

*gasp* Of course! To the oracle!

[Albonor]

hum...going southeast instead of southwest? Isn't Cliffport way up north?

[hajo]

Considering that Haley complained (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0531.html) about the high prices for smuggled weapons, so that she had to use up most of her money, I wonder how they are going to pay the oracle...

[d'Bwobsling]

That's not funny, I'm a vegetarian :smallannoyed::smallwink:

[galdon]

good luck getting roy revived, belkar is going to kill the oracle. ><

[TheWinterBard]

V is going to be so mad when s/he learns they roasted and ate the messenger birds. The group reunion will certainly be interesting.

See, it seems to me that on this front, Belkar (albeit not alone) is helping to kill V by effectively ending V's spell attempts to contact them--he cooked the birds, after all, though I do know Haley shot them. V wasn't looking so good last time we saw that group... Probably too vaguely connected to Belkar to actually make sense, but I still think it's interesting :smallsmile:

[silvadel]

I would assume a mini-city would spring up there just to make it so belkar cant attack sentients if the oracle were really worried.

[Querzis]

IF (and that's a bit if) they do indeed try to get prophecies from the Oracle, or if they need to pay him to raise Roy (about time!), then don't forget that it's been shown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html) that the Oracle takes payment via 4 ways: Cash (no electrum), Immortal Souls, Magic Beans, Your Voice. So the above poster who implied Haley could be losing her voice again hit the nail on the head. Unless she's got magic beans in that bag of hers, of course. :smallbiggrin:

Well if they can pay in immortal souls, I would pay with Belkar soul. I mean, whatever what the Oracle might do with his soul cant be much worse then the Abyss anyway.

More seriously, the Oracle is kinda bound to be a Cleric or at least a diviner and, if he can talk directly with Tiamat, hes definitly high level. So he can resurect Roy, the question is, will he?

[dragongirl13]

Awesome! Unexpected, but awesome!

Ugh, the magic mouth is still delivering the same speech... right where it left off... :smallyuk:

I don't know what Haley was talking about, she's actually really smart.

[Lira]

Excellent. I never expected they would go back to the Oracle. This should be good, and this should provide some excellent speculation for us! I'm really looking forward to the Oracle's answers.

[factotum]

Well, it sure adds a twist to the "Is Celia pregnant?" theory :smallbiggrin:


Didn't we have enough of that with people suggesting that Haley must be pregnant when they visited the Oracle the first time?

[Red XIV]

Considering that Haley complained (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0531.html) about the high prices for smuggled weapons, so that she had to use up most of her money, I wonder how they are going to pay the oracle...
Perhaps they'll just resort to threats of violence.

Or maybe Celia has money.

[Skelengar]

How is everyone translating what Haley said? And what does a gift horse have to do with getting her voice back?

[raphfrk]

How is everyone translating what Haley said? And what does a gift horse have to do with getting her voice back?

I think it refers to the dress Nale gave her. If she thought more deeply about it, she may not have gone.

However, if she didn't go, she wouldn't have been part of the showdown which forced her to tell Elan how she felt/get her voice back.

[batsofchaos]

I thought the idea was Haley was going to ask the oracle where Durkon's exact location is. I took the oracle's seer abilities to be a homebrew of some sort; capable of divine insight into the future but with no access to traditional clerical spells. Nothing in the comic has suggested that he can cast Create Water, let alone Resurrection.

[Arkenputtyknife]

How is everyone translating what Haley said?
It's just a simple substitution cipher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_cipher). Well, almost; it breaks the rules in a few places. But even a duffer like me can crack one of those, given a long enough message; apparently 50 letters or thereabouts is long enough for most cases.

[Red XIV]

How is everyone translating what Haley said?
This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4909) should help. Rich didn't just put random gibberish in Haley's speech balloons, he used a substitution cipher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_cipher). If you know the cipher, then you can decode what she's saying.

[David Argall]

Huh? If you're referring to Haley saying that there's no point in her asking a question, the obvious interpretation is that Haley doesn't expect the Oracle to be able to understand her (nobody else does, and she probably hasn't thought through the full implications of the "Oracle" thing).
See 531. Haley implies she is broke or close to it. Since she has spent several months in the wilds with possible random monsters carrying level-appropriate treasure, this may no longer be a problem, but it is at least possible Haley can't pay for her question with cash, and her voice may be the alternate payment. [Maybe we get to see Haley carrying signs with the words on them in the future.]



what does a gift horse have to do with getting her voice back?
"Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." is an old saying from when many people had horses and one routinely checked a horse's value by checking the teeth. It means roughly "It may not be as good as advertised, but it's going to be a profit to you no matter how much lying is involved."
So when gift horse Nale comes calling, she accepts and the final result is her getting back her voice.

[Shatteredtower]

Considering that Haley complained (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0531.html) about the high prices for smuggled weapons, so that she had to use up most of her money, I wonder how they are going to pay the oracle...Celia gave that a likely answer within the same strip.

[Jalor]

The Oracle is a cleric? I thought he was just a vessel for Tiamat's will or something.

A cleric is a vessel of a god's will.

[B.I.T.T.]

I liked this comic because it furthered the plot. Were this comic in a book format and it was 3:00 am on a Sunday and I had to be at work at 7:30 am the next day, this comic would probably make me read the next 5 or 6 comics anyway. Dug it.

Belkar's Prophesy, though, has been completed.

Belkar asked if he was going to cause the death of Roy, Windstriker, or Miko. Now Miko died because she was...I don't want to say stupid...but I will. She was stupid. Nothing to do with Belkar.

Windstriker (aka Miko's stupid horse) is wherever the bonded mounts of paladins go when their not in said paladin's presence. The chances of Belkar killing him are between slim and zilch.

That leaves Roy. Who jumped on the back of a flying dragon, knocked heads with Xycon for a while then fell to his untimely death. But he wouldn't have been able to do that if Belkar hadn't given him the ring of jumping. So Belkar (indirectly) caused the death of Roy. When Belkar finds this out, of course, he's going to be five flavors of furious because he didn't even realize he was doing it, so where's the fun in that?

This has probably already been mentioned before, but I'm far to lazy to check, so here ya go. :smalltongue:

[chipelp3]

That's great! - lol

[Randomosity]

Celia will ask something completely in line with the personality she has portrayed up to and including this point.

Hopefully, this will include the fact that she's a lawyer and thus has some experience with the kind of specificity she needs. With yet more hope, she'll do better at it than Roy did, considering he was trying the same approach without all the training.

Or she will ask something naive and Haley's the only one who gets useful information.

But I hope it's the first one.

[holywhippet]

I still think you could say Belkar was responsible for Miko's death. She went crazy because she hated the Order of the Stick - especially Belkar. If Belkar had been absent she might have gotten along with them.

Even if she lacks the money required, I'd assume that they will have an equivalent amount in magical items.

I'm wondering if it could be some kind of death trade off. They get Roy raised, but Belkar is killed while killing or attempting to kill the Oracle. I wonder if the Oracle is related to either of the kobolds Belkar has taken out so far.

[The Gremlin]

Hooray for the Oracle!
I bet that at some point, Xykon and Redcloak (and the MitD)are going to visit him, and some very interesting questions are going to be asked.
My theories:
:xykon: Where is the Gate?
:redcloak: How can we secure the Gate?
:mitd: What Gate?

[Aerysil]

Oh boy, here we go again...

[mroozee]

Belkar's Prophesy, though, has been completed... Belkar asked if he was going to cause the death of Roy, Windstriker, or Miko.

Actually, Belkar asked if he was going to cause the death of any of those three but also of Vaarsuvius and the Oracle (here) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html).

My loony theory which may already have been stated by others...
Belkar will cause the death of Vaarsuvius when V says "the right four words to the right being (Belkar) at the right time, for all of the wrong reasons". The result will be that V becomes a Lich, achieving "complete and ultimate total arcane power" thus fulfilling both prophecies. In keeping with the habit of puns, I wouldn't be surprised if V's phrase somehow became "the right forwards"
Other notes on the Oracle...
The 'savor your next birthday cake' comment was made before the Oracle entered his trance and may not have been prophetic at all. If Belkar intends to kill the Oracle, he will be looking for a male halfling rather than a kobold (333). We don't know what Haley will be looking for... could be a horse for all we know (gift or otherwise). V's raven was with the OOTS when they went to meet the Oracle and has only appeared once since then when V summoned it in 440 before popping out of its own accord. If the bird went back to Sunken Valley it might see Belkar or Haley and communicate this to V when s/he summons it again. Of course, now that they are clear of the Cloister spell, virtually anything V would try should reach them.

[Timberboar]

"Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." is an old saying from when many people had horses and one routinely checked a horse's value by checking the teeth. It means roughly "It may not be as good as advertised, but it's going to be a profit to you no matter how much lying is involved."

Umm. Not quite. The reason you don't look a gift horse in the mouth is because it's a _gift_ horse, and it's unbelievable rude to accept the gift and then check to see how valuable it is. It has nothing to do with lying.

[The Gremlin]

...We don't know what Haley will be looking for... could be a horse for all we know (gift or otherwise)...[/spoiler]

Actually, I believe that the whole gift horse in the mouth prophecy has been fulfilled (see Nale's attack on Haley)but she just remembered the Oracle as a result of hearing a similar statement from Belkar ('don't look a gift parrot in the mouth'). Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Red XIV]

Actually, I believe that the whole gift horse in the mouth prophecy has been fulfilled (see Nale's attack on Haley)but she just remembered the Oracle as a result of hearing a similar statement from Belkar ('don't look a gift parrot in the mouth'). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's all there is to it. Haley had forgotten all about the Oracle until Belkar accidentally reminded her of him.

[1condor12]

they arent out of the cloister spell. the spell blockes divination spell to find the person. this spell was not to find them teqnecally, it was to diliver a message. i dosnt mean they know where they are, it just means they get and recieve a message. the cloister and its several weeks of effects are still in effect

[David Argall]

I still think you could say Belkar was responsible for Miko's death. She went crazy because she hated the Order of the Stick - especially Belkar. If Belkar had been absent she might have gotten along with them.

Now with a loose enough definition of cause, Belkar is responsible for anything and everything that happens after that date. But Belkar's influence on Miko was almost entirely before they met the kobold so any definition of cause that allows the kobold to say no would reject Belkar as the cause of Miko's death.



they arent out of the cloister spell. the spell blockes divination spell to find the person. this spell was not to find them teqnecally, it was to diliver a message. i dosnt mean they know where they are, it just means they get and recieve a message.
If you don't know where to send a message, it is rather hard to send a message.



the cloister and its several weeks of effects are still in effect
Cloister lasts 1 week/caster level or 21+ weeks in our case. We know 16 weeks had passed before Haley left Azure City, and a substantial period has passed since then, probably at least 2 months, so Cloister is over and just about any spell can contact Haley.



The reason you don't look a gift horse in the mouth is because it's a _gift_ horse, and it's unbelievable rude to accept the gift and then check to see how valuable it is. It has nothing to do with lying.
While politeness was always a consideration, and possibly the more important at one time, the reason it was impolite was that it implied lying. So it always had something to do with lying.
At least in more modern usage in these less polite times, the suspicion of fraud has been the more important aspect. Strangers and others who have no grounds to demand trust sometimes quote it to each other. Note Belkar's use of the idea in the comic. There can hardly be said to be anyone he is warning against insulting.



The 'savor your next birthday cake' comment was made before the Oracle entered his trance and may not have been prophetic at all.
All the evidence is that the Oracle does not have to enter any trance to see the future and does see the future all the time. He merely doesn't get paid for his comments in casual conversation. [He might be able to lie in casual conversation too, but that smacks of cheating.]

[Red XIV]

Since we don't know for sure exactly how long Haley and company have been on the march, nor have we been told Xykon's exact level, we can only guess whether they're out of the effects of Cloister yet. It's likely, but some guesswork is still required. Unless V tries scrying again, we won't know for sure.

[Timberboar]

While politeness was always a consideration, and possibly the more important at one time, the reason it was impolite was that it implied lying. So it always had something to do with lying.

The reason is was impolite is because it's the equivalent of someone giving you a car, and immediately asking how much you can hock it for. It makes you seem ungrateful. More on that later.


At least in more modern usage in these less polite times, the suspicion of fraud has been the more important aspect. Strangers and others who have no grounds to demand trust sometimes quote it to each other.

I have never heard the phrase used thusly. Maybe it's a regional thing?


Note Belkar's use of the idea in the comic. There can hardly be said to be anyone he is warning against insulting.

No, but he certainly WAS saying "don't be ungrateful of this gift happenstance has given us."

[David Argall]

Since we don't know for sure exactly how long Haley and company have been on the march, nor have we been told Xykon's exact level, we can only guess whether they're out of the effects of Cloister yet. It's likely, but some guesswork is still required. Unless V tries scrying again, we won't know for sure.
We won't know for sure, but the odds are heavily in favor of it no longer affecting them.
Xykon's level is apparently in the low 20's. He pegs himself as maybe 8 higher than Roy who was about 13th.

Haley had been at Azure City for 16 weeks. At that time, Kazumi was 8 weeks along. She is now 4-5 months along, meaning another 12 weeks or so have passed for a total of 28, which is clearly well above Xykon's level and so the spell has ended some time ago. The margin of error is quite substantial.

Quote:
Note Belkar's use of the idea in the comic. There can hardly be said to be anyone he is warning against insulting.



No, but he certainly WAS saying "don't be ungrateful of this gift happenstance has given us."
Just how is he doing that? Who is he saying gratitude is due to? And just when do we see him showing gratitude in the past?

It makes much more sense here that he is saying "why worry that this is a little odd? It's a good thing, right? So accept it. Because if you hesitate, it might get away."

[Selene]

People should have looked the horse in the mouth anyway. Crappy useless horse = feeding and housing an animal you can't use for anything. I mean, if somebody towed an old wreck of a car to your house and tried to give it to you, you'd want to know how much it would cost to fix, and how much you might end up spending to haul it off to the junkyard if it can't be fixed, right?

[Jimorian]

I just wanna see what happens if Haley runs into these guys (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0327.html) again. :smallbiggrin:

I was NOT disappointed. :smalltongue: