OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread

[Math_Mage]

It just wouldn't make sense IMO if the OOTS managed to beat a vilain 1-2 level higher than them. Remember when they were lowbies and managed to blow the first gate and kick X's ass who should have been way out of their league.

Not having followed the discussion beyond reading the epic-length summary on the previous page, I just wanted to counter this individual point. OotS beating Xykon has no bearing on their ability to beat anyone else, because:

1. Rich hadn't fully developed Xykon by that point, and likely didn't yet consider him to be very high level.
2. Xykon wasn't taking them seriously.
3. They had assistance from Epic-level magic.

A few more points relevant to the general discussion of Tarquin's level:

1. Magic items do a lot to bolster one's combat ability. Roy and Haley each have combat-useful magic items, but Tarquin plainly has access to many such items. So there is distinction on a different axis of power than mere character level.

2. Everything Tarquin has done to this point is well within the capacity of a high-teens Fighter (or even low-teens ToB class). Tarquin's build is simply better-optimized for facing small groups of high-level characters, whereas the Order is mainly built to wipe out large waves of mooks (Roy and V mowing down the front line, Haley Manyshotting or sneaking around to snipe key targets in the rear, Elan and Durkon supporting, and Belkar wandering around stabbing things). So there's a distinction along the optimization axis as well.

3. Redcloak is only 1-3 levels higher than the Order (depending on who you compare to), and plainly makes a suitable villain. Tarquin being on Redcloak's level is entirely believable; it's not necessary for him to be on Xykon's level, especially since Xykon's philosophy of being the biggest baddest dude around is very different from Tarquin's philosophy of indirect control and moderate villainy. I feel it is actually narratively inappropriate for Tarquin to be Epic. He doesn't need it to do what he does; he doesn't want the distinction that might make him a target. As a side note, Redcloak has also been adventuring for ~35 years, so time doesn't make Tarquin epic. As noted, that's just a big question mark.

Er...so, yeah. I only wanted to write the first bit. The rest just sort of happened.