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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Got a Real World Weapons or Armour Question? Mk XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmarvho
    It's less that the ancient techniques got lost, perhaps, and more that certain things that made one or another forging process unique got left out in the process. For example, while phosphorus can be problematic to steel, making it more brittle, trace amounts might have had an effect on the forging process. Any forge that used bone in the smelting process would end up with certain of those properties. So regional and cultural differences could have had a whole heap to do with the properties of different forges.
    Phosphorous in the steel (or steely iron) can make it easier to cold-work harden. Which is how a lot of early 'steel' swords were made. This is a really important difference from later blades.

    We know from literary sources and some archeological evidence that they used to introduce phosphorous with both bird droppings and wolf and bear bones, and teeth, among other methods.

    The process of heat treatment is really critical to how swords and other blades were made. A steel sword which isn't heat treated may be less flexible, tough, and / or able to hold an edge than a 'steely iron' sword with a lower carbon content, that has been heat treated. I may be wrong but I think the best current evidence is that the Romans were the first to start doing a proper heat treat, including real tempering, to sword blades, in the (formerly Celtic / Illyrian) region of Noricum in the 2nd or 1st Century BC.


    That is the other big issue (related to the phosphorous) is what kind of heat treatment was being done, if any. We know that alot of early "Celtic" swords were being made of steel quite early, by at least the 3rd Century BC, and also probably in Iberia at some time between the 3rd and 1st Century BC, and by the Haya people in Africa near the 1st Century AD. Steel (as opposed to "steely iron" or pattern welded iron) wasn't really common in Europe until probably at least the 3rd Century AD and tempered steel not until at least that time. Even by the Medieval era not all blades had a good heat treatment.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering#History

    The heat treatment, particularly tempering, are what make the difference between a good and great blade. Without tempering a sword blade is usually going to be pretty brittle. Other related techniques such as differential hardening are also really important, notably with Japanese blades among others. This is part of why you have the hamon pattern between the hard blade and softer spine on a Japanese blade.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differe...heat_treatment

    The term pattern welding can be used to describe a specific, complex type of pattern welding with the lattice type pattern in the center, which you read descriptions of by Romans well before the Viking Age, and much more simple types of forge-welding, such as using an iron core with harder high carbon steel edges. The latter actually remained a constant feature of sword making well into the Renaissance period, the former did kind of 'die out' in Europe by the end of the Viking Age.

    G
    Last edited by Galloglaich; 2012-12-03 at 02:41 PM.