Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

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Reply to Venger:

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if you don't invest in con, then the ability will be rather lame, but since it's one of your most important class features, you kinda should, especially if it's for iron chef.

Most of the Con boosting methods use class levels. Most of these classes are pure melee and don't have much use for Cha. If you're trying to build a melee character than it's not really hard but if you aren't...and even if you are trying to build a melee character it gets harder to justify why exactly you're taking Slime Lord levels when you could be taking better melee PRC's that boost Con more and get more use out of it.

Also, most melee classes don't have Disguise or Bluff on their skill list (this is fixed with a feat but I'm trying to evaluate the class on its own).

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you get bluff, and with your charming gaze, you kinda don't need diplo all that much. your disguise skill is less for use with disguise on its own, and more to bolster your alter self, which you'll remember gives a +10 untyped bonus. enough to carry you on its own since you dumped cha? nah. but with support by having disguise as a class skill? hells yeah

Ah I didn't see that. I concede the point.

while that is true, it does still, y'know, give you the ability to use those natural attacks when you're not using your paralysis. along with alter self's other awesomeness. it's also a su ability instead of a sla, and duration's not an issue.

Yup.

that's true, but despite the class providing hide MS, its lack of precision damage or other skillful class support, doesn't seem to be a particularly good fit for entry as a sneak, or to go into after finishing up the class

The only two entries I can think of are sneak and melee. I assumed sneak because I assumed you wanted to get the most mileage out of the pseudopods (1 hit builds are usually not pure melee builds) and because of the 3/4 BAB (and because the melee classes usually don't get Disguise or Bluff on their skill list). When fighting with them you will only be able to hit once (using a full attack action for two hits is a waste) so you'll want to stack on status effects/damage. Melee builds usually need more attacks than 1.

If you ignored the pseudopods you could enter with melee classes which would lose less yes.

well, if they avert their eyes, then you and all your allies have total concealment from them. that's pretty darn sweet for not even actually doing anything. you can use your charming gaze so much that enemies will likely try to "play it safe" and shut their eyes. useful if your party has any real sneaks, and useful if you want to have levels in sneak classes.

I may be missing something but it seems by RAW only the creature with the gaze attack would get the concealment.

Not only that but since each use of the charming gaze only lasts for 1 round you'd have to activate it again each round to get the concealment...and you only have level/day uses!

I would argue that it depends heavily on what you enter as. if you try to enter as say rogue, yeah, it would kind of screw you since you lose so much SA. but if you enter as somethign that doesn't rely as much on a class feature slimelord doesn't provide, I don't think that would have as negative an effect

Yup. I gave my reasons for my assumptions above.

I'd put the Slime Lord on the level of a PRC like Mythic Exemplar.

Reply to Vaz:

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Nope. It states "Slime Lords natural attack".

Paralytic Slime (Ex): A slime lord’s pseudopods are coated with slime that can paralyze a foe. Any creature struck by a slime lord’s natural attack must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10 + slime lord level + slime lord’s Con modifi er) or be paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds.

I copied that straight from my copy of the book. Do you and I have different copies or something?

There are ways around this. Plus Alter Self can replace the need for many social skills; while there's no RAW, transforming yourself into the form that's going to get a circumstance bonus to the occasion (DM applicable) will do a similar job. Walk up to a guard, and say "let me through" looking like... well... a Slime Lord, will do nothing. Walk up to a guard, and say "let me through", looking like the Guard Commander is likely to a lot more. It's Changeling awesome. Just a shame there's no way to Quicken Su. Plus, it's Alter Self, not Disguise Self, so it's like Hat of Disguise+. As to other abilities; you get Bluff, and Intimidate. Both of those work well in combat and fluff, but does put you towards a certain way of acting. Of course; you're evil though, that's how you roll. Throw in Forgery for fake passports and the like.

See my reply to Venger

"Slime Lords natural attacks". The psueodpods themselves make no mention of the Slime, and the only mention of the pseudopods is fluff, but it applies to the natural attacks; unarmed strikes are a form of natural attack, and

Pseudopods (Ex): The physical form of a slime lord is more mutable than that of a normal creature of his type. As a move action, a slime lord can transform his hands into pseudopods or back into normal hands. He can make two natural attacks with his pseudopods as a full attack action, or one attack as a standard action. Each successful attack deals 1d6 points of damage. The transformation lasts for up to 1 round per slime lord level, though the character can change his pseudopods back into hands before the expiration of the effect as a move action. The slime lord can use this ability once per day at 1st level. Thereafter, he gains one additional use per day for every two slime lord levels. Thus, he can use the ability twice per day at 3rd level, three times per day at 5th level, four times per day at 7th level, and
fi ve times per day at 9th level.

Monks are 4+ Int, so not exactly sure what you're aiming for here. Monk gets you flurry, and as above, Flurry, with a Con based DC (DC23+ unaugmented) is guaranteed. You get Hide, and Move Silently. No Spot or Listen; so you'll need a bit more work for that. There is a feat available which fixes that issue, and I think I'll be using it, so I won't spoil it.

Monk is a sneaky class that isn't a skillmonkey. This means it doesn't lose as much from going into Slime Lord.

Flurry doesn't work with the pseudopods but that can be fixed with the Decisive Strike variant. The problem with monk is that it adds Wis dependancy. Probably worth it though.

Averting their gaze means that you get concealment. How you abuse that is up to you, and it's only going to half their success rates. It's also modifiable via a DC, so unless you're truly a social monkey, then you should make special dispensation to getting the best Charisma boosters available, and using that to Charm them. Remember them guards you tried to bypass earlier? Don't know the Guard commander? Bang hit them with a Charm Monster. Or indeed, charm the guard commander himself.

See my reply to Venger regarding the concealment. The out-of-combat use is fine though.

Find a way to combine the two?

Theres not much synergy. Almost all the good features overlap.

1 Feat, Minimum BAB, and 6 ranks in a single skill with an alignment requirement isn't open? It's good to be biased; but I think that some of your complaints come from the fact that you misunderstood some points (mostly the Slime). In regards to oozemaster, the spellcasting requirement I don't like; requires a full caster or early entry cheese, with a feat tax and a useless skill tax (admittedly, the latter being less useful).

I never said that Slime Lord wasn't open . See some of my replys to Venger to see why I think Slime Lord is a bit more restricted in build options that it initially seems.

It's good to be biased?