Quote Originally Posted by Geordnet View Post
This is what I want to avoid at all costs. What you describe is science. It is science applied to imaginary rules, and trying to pretend it is not science, but that is absolutely what it is.

This can be fun, but it's not what I'm looking for. If I wanted something analyzed and understood, I'd just look at my real-life physics textbooks. Maybe google some hypothetical physics as well. Or, I'd read some hard sci-fi.

What I mean by "magic" is "that which is explicitly not understood". The whole point is that you don't know how it works. If the answer to the question "how does magic work" is anything other than "by magic", it sort of takes the magic out of wondering about it.
If no one can describe it, then no one can use it. Period. Science is a method of describing how something works. Science is not the process of telling you that "X doesn't work," it's the process of figuring out how X works. If "magic" is inherently unpredictable, rules for it can't be defined, and it is effectively useless.

I'll say this again: science is a method of description, not an energy force.

Science describes things using a distinct methodology. It can be applied to almost anything that affects the world. It is concerned with observing the effects of a phenomena on the environment and then extrapolating what that effect means. It is a process of discovery and understanding what those discoveries mean.

If you find that boring, you have never met a scientist. Listen to Carl Sagan or Neil Degrasse Tyson talk for THIRTY SECONDS and you will learn that being able to describe something makes it more amazing and fantastic. Seriously. Listen to them. The way scientists talk is seriously how wizards should talk. They should be amazed by everything and filled with a sense of awe and wonderment about the tiniest things.

Of course, I understand that achieving this ideal is more or less impossible, but as it stands Harry Houdini is a more magical person than Mordenkaien, so there's lots of room for improvement.
Houdini was a freakin' wizard.

Both are prime examples of what I'm trying to avoid though. And the "science" you mention is just more magic, pretending to be something it's not.
The only difference between science and magic is cultural.

By "not punk", I don't mean "shiny and nice". I mean that I want something that's closer to the "realistic" end of the balance between Rule of Cool and Realism.
Realistically, any process in which you ask a question and then try to achieve answers to that question using evidenciary materials collected by you or another person... IS SCIENCE.

Science is the process of creating controlled situations in which phenomena are recreated and then described. If you are capable of casting spells, you are capable of creating controlled situations.

At which point, congratulations! You're doing science! You might not call it science, but that's what it is.

Right, sufficiently advanced magic just becomes another form of technology. That's what I'm trying to avoid.
Hold on. I have a thing for this.



Ah, now this is what I'm looking for. A subtler, "low-magic" approach. That would work nicely.

Keeping with the "Early Modern Europe" example, how would this approach be applied there?
It doesn't matter if it's commonly available or not: a particle accelerator is technology, but who has access to or understands one of those? And how applicable is it to daily life? It could be the same thing for magic - how useful is it to the common person?

Check out the stuff the Islamic alchemists were doing. These guys were trying to work out how the world around them worked, but some of their experiments were extremely bizarre and esoteric, and probably useless for most people. Also check out Heron of Alexandria. The guy was a boss. For stuff about wizards that might help you out, check out Cunning Folk. They do kind of what you're asking.

Ars Magica also has a really good approach to this, with a very esoteric magic system and the entire goal of the setting is to fiddle with the, well, fiddly bits without knowing how they work.