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    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Twilight Warrior Base Class (with alternative casting system) [PEACH]

    Dean – Thanks for the feedback based on your play experience- I am grateful that you are giving me empiric feedback!

    Your direct comparisons to the Paladin are rather insightful. I think that when I imagined this class I had a specific idea in mind of a warrior, namely a lithe dexterous rapier/buckler warrior. But your feedback (especially so long after I first made the class) has caused me to reconsider this, or at least allow other imaginings to be possible by a player.

    Because of your commentary I have realized that there should be many ideas of this class available to the player, and that a frontline fighter should have d10 hit dice. I will change it to be so. This will mean that the TW is tougher than a warlock, but not as well armored as a paladin/fighter. I’m willing to listen to arguments that I should allow heavy armor as well.
    I have changed the incantation system to be more in line with the paladin; more on this below.

    Here’s my commentary on your commentary of the features:
    Spoiler: Commentary on feature commentary
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    Lunar Shield: I’ve changed it so it explicitly mentions that you can use the +1 AC part of the feature without the shield – as intended. I’ve also increased the time that the shield is active; my hope is that this will allow 1) clever people to place it on the right person before combat, and 2) TWF to be far more viable.

    Celestial Mediation: What I don’t want is the resource system to be made irrelevant by making this feature a bonus action. This feature is more meant to a) be flavorful and b) allow the TW some measurement of control over their energy pool out of combat. It is also worth noting that the TW gains incantations at this level, a mechanical boost.
    Bind Fates: Adjustment to d10 hit dice will make this a better feature.

    Constant as the Sun: This is meant to be a flavor/ribbon feature, like some ranger or monk features at this level range. I can improve it however – it now provides sustenance for the day.

    Inconstant as the Moon: I’ve become a fan of tying arbitrary numbers in classes to attributes, but I also think that I don’t want such a broad feature to be able to used three times in a row (either mechanically or flavorfully).

    Equinox: I loathe making capstone features, because they are supposed to be powerful and symbolically represent the class. I have buffed this ability so that it provides more temporary celestial energy, enough so that it is possible for a TW to cast the equivalent of 9th level spells – nothing to scoff at for a half-caster. However, I’m open to other suggestions.


    On your commentary of the archetypes:
    Spoiler: Commentary on archetype commentary
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    I think that what can separate the two subclasses here is the heavy practical and symbolic distinction between lunar and solar incantations. Thematically, they represent of the transition of light to darkness, or darkness to light.

    The intention of the Rising Moon / Rising Sun features is to be the mechanical application of that transformative theme. Mechanically, it makes it easier for the character to acquire an energy type. The energy can be used to more easily access the casting of certain incantations, or fuel the additional effects of certain ongoing incantations (e.g., brightblade).

    Now, I recognize possible problems with this. The TW doesn’t cast incantations terribly often, which means that the management of the energy pool may not be as important. I could make their respective features cost celestial energy, but that seems like a tax.
    Alternatively, I could make the additional energy type transformation give a mechanical benefit as a symbol of that additional cost. I have thought for some time about this, but I’m uncertain what it might be.

    Or I could leave it as is. I think that the features provide sufficient resource management and utility. I’d be open to a conversations on this topic in particular.


    Commentary on some TLDR points:
    Spoiler: Commentary on TLDR points
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    • This class is like the warlock in that they need to strategically determine how to use incantation slots or be without the utility/power they provide. But my hope is that the spell-like features provided fill that gap when incantation slots are used up.
    • I balanced the incantations around spells, under the assumption that this class shouldn’t have more spellcasting power at any level than the classes in the PHB. I’d also like to keep this class as a half-caster, so I don’t think that raising the max energy use should be above 5.
    • I’ve replaced the final feature of the Path of Dusk archetype. It is nigh-exactly copied from the UA Sorcerous Dusk Sorcerous Origin. I hope it is reasonable.
    • To minimize bookkeeping, I have made it so that there is no maximum energy cost, only the size of your energy pool. Question for you: do you believe that the reduction of the pool by one will reduce the power of the class noticeably?
    • I’ve changed astromancy to be more similar to a paladin, where you know all the incantations on the list but only prepare a limited amount. Compared to the paladin, the TW will prepare less incantations than the paladin’s spells, but I believe that their access to different types of spells is comparable.
    • Now, the TW has to 20 incantations available (6 require too much celestial energy). Compared to the ~45 that a paladin has access to, I feel alright with this decision.




    Spoiler: Commentary on your EDIT
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    I do think that a melee caster sort of class would be possible with the incantation system, but I think that I’d like to keep this one as a half-caster warrior for now. But in the future I will be imagining how to transform all the other spells into incantations, so perhaps I will tackle that archetype in the future.

    (Oh, and I have added cantrips to the Astromancer class. You can see the updated version in my signature.)


    At this point, I have two points that I’d like to discuss further:
    a) the viability of the capstone feature, and
    b) determine if Rising Sun/Moon are quality features and if not, what can replace them

    Thanks for all the help you’ve given me to imagine the class. I’ve made many changes based on your suggestions; let me know if any of them are unreasonable.

    Also, I've put the information into nicely formatted PDFs. You can download them above.
    Last edited by zeek0; 2016-08-08 at 03:11 AM.