Class and Level Geekery XV - What's the Damage of a Thrown Pineapple?

[unbeliever536]

I don't understand why this question is directed at me. It has nothing to do with what I said.

You're right, the relationship is a bit distant. If Belkar isn't level 12 by the Hex Hag fight, he can't have had Bounding Assault then, which means it can't explain the double stab and he must have Two-Weapon Rend Pounce*. In that case, he would have two feats more than is legal, and removing CDMI wouldn't solve the problem. At that point you're back to the same "which feat(s) do we remove" problem I talked about before.

In that case, the feats he has that are not prerequisites for other feats are TWP, CDMI, Bounding Assault, and Improved Sunder. Removing Bounding Assault allows Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack to all be removed, and removing Improved Sunder allows Power Attack to be removed. I think the most economical thing is to just dump the entire Dodge tree, since (1) it's only there if Bounding Assault is needed, (2) the only evidence for Bounding Assault is the Miron fight and we have evidence that Belkar's movement might be stylized anyway (and also, note that Elan and Mr Scruffy seem to teleport off panel for no particular reason immediately before Laurin's attack), and (3) I believe that the Hex Hag fight also shows that Belkar has Leap Attack, which would require keeping Power Attack even without Improved Sunder.

As to why Belkar would have Power Attack despite getting no benefit from it, we're shown in the very first strip that Belkar got screwed by the 3.5 update, prior to which Power Attack would have benefited him (according to dandwiki, which is admittedly not the most reliable source).

ed:

According to Haley, Elan was level 12 by strip 382

We've actually got a better one for this argument: according to the Giant, Belkar was level 12 by strip 250 or so. That's a while after the strip in question, of course, and follows the dragon fight, the dirt farmer rescue mission, and the events of the inn (where again Belkar didn't do much), but it does show that he could be telling the truth about CDMI, assuming it's actually a feat.

* I just realized that I've been saying Two-Weapon Rend this entire time when it's not the feat I mean. Rather embarrassing given my guessed origin for the Bounding Assault entry.

e2:

I found the discussion that resulted in Bounding Assault being added (as Bounding Attack). It starts with questions about whether Belkar's fight with Crystal means he has Improved Trip. Despite what everyone there is saying, the only reason to believe he does is that Crystal doesn't appear to get an AoO, as the "new round" version allows Belkar to have full attacked with a trip at the start. Belkar also doesn't qualify for Combat Expertise and therefore can't get Improved Trip. There was some discussion of giving Belkar flaws, which would grant him feats, but that obviously never happened (and unless he talks about having flaws-the-game-mechanic, probably never should). Thread XIII corrected the name of the feat to Bounding Assault and linked it to the Hex Hag fight for reasons which remain mysterious to me.

In any case, Wombat's post there is referring to the discussion earlier in the thread about the Miron strip, which resulted in Spring Attack being added (and Great Cleave being removed). In any case, the Miron fight is pretty well-worn territory at this point and I'm not going to bore everyone by reiterating the stuff I've already said about it.