Quote Originally Posted by Mike Miller View Post
I think the -0 is being applied too liberally here. I know the -0 vs +0 debate was just revived recently, but the ogre skullcrusher isn't as bad as many other truly deserving -0 creatures. For example, an initiator build wouldn't be so bad. Coming in at it's 9th HD it starts with 3rd level maneuvers. Sure, it isn't ideal, but there are uses for it and it would certainly fit into a bruiser role. I don't agree that it is -0. I vote +0.
The Skullcrusher is not terrible, but the balance point of the the thread is explicitly tier 3. This monster is (with just cause) being compared unfavorably to a basic Ogre at 4 of the same RHD, making up the difference in pure Fighter levels (tier 5, or 4 using variants, ACFs and dead level junk to squeeze every last ounce of use). Being compared unfavorably to a 3.5 Fighter is definitely not something to put on your resume.