The Man Keeping the Martial Down

[AMFV]

No. combos and builds are too easily replicated. its all math and therefore a copy-paste away from being something you can do. the rest is just talking, not measurable at all, observable, but not measurable.

Just because something is easily replicated doesn't mean that there isn't skill involved for the first person who comes up with it. That's like arguing that people who win at competitive trading card games don't have any skill involved. And talking is a skill as well, being able to outline or come up with an innovative solution is a skill.

And in early D&D it could be measured by your ability to collect the treasures and complete the modules. Of course at that stage you didn't really have "builds" as such. That's a token of a later era.

I'd hardly consider what they do to be beer and pretzels. thats a subjective term that I never really experienced myself, they make stories and well played characters, there is too much effort to what they do.

Beer & Pretzels wasn't intended to be a put-down or a negative. The D&D games I've watched on YouTubes or what-not have mostly fallen into what I would consider to be beer & pretzels style playing where the most important thing is having cool stories to share with your friends. Which again is okay, I play that style of game from time to time. And they do put effort in. I mean Penny Arcade's AI games have a ton of effort, but they aren't the type of games I like to play all the time, only some of the time.

I find it more curious why your so quick to label and divide. it seems very dismissive. and then you accuse me of one true wayism by implication. why you'd want me around for something I don't want or like, that seems like a losing plan for everyone involved, I don't know. personally, my roleplaying experience is that I come up with special snowflake characters blocks to try and fit into round hole games other people want to play, then find more fun with the people who don't hold themselves to too high of a standards because the ones that do hold themselves to higher standards in any area tend to be really inflexible about how a game goes and thus have weaknesses to the flexibility roleplaying often requires to keep a game going.

It's not intended to be dismissive. And there's only one or two contributers to this thread who I think are guilty of one-true-wayism. I thought that you might be slipping into seeming that way without intending it. That was the point I was trying to make. And to make sure that you realized that there might be people with different preferences.

but then again I mostly play online. my primary concern is games that function and become sustainable at all rather than trying for ones that have intense rules and competition that could easily lead to hurt feelings over characters one has poured time and effort into. I certainly have a hard time losing characters myself and get emotional over the thought of losing characters I get attached to.

I would agree that in-person is better for that style outside of very specific exceptions like ToS. And if you're playing that kind of game getting super attached to a character is probably not the way to go.

so no, I don't really care for competitive DnD. I'm too easily enflamed or embittered, and competition is no place for emotion in excess.

That's fair, you don't have to try it or enjoy it. It's just something I consider fun. That's why I would try and share that with people. I love the character creation mini-game, and I find that it's often derided as being "not-creative" but you have to remember that somebody had to come up with all those builds people are copy-pasting in the first place, and that applying those builds in different ways requires creativity.