It is worth noting that Battle Sorcs also suffered from low spells at low levels, and PF2 Sorcs feel a lot like battle sorcs, with their fairly decent array of weapon proficiencies. But I see your points.

I do wonder if we are expecting PF2 to be too much of a PF "update". Is it possible we are expecting high magic, but its actually a low magic setting? People do, after all, play games that dont have anywhere near as much magic as D&D does. Perhaps that is the direction the creators wanted to take it? If so, they should have been clear about that.

For some numbers, if others dont want to look it up, a level 1 Sorc gets 3 first level spell slots per day, and unlimited cantrips, and knows 3 first level spells and 5 cantrips. This is far less than 3.5e's sorc, but similar to the battle sorc. But there is no bonus from having a good casting stat.

Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
They need to crit fail the save to stun them. That means you have a 95% chance that the spell does only pitiful damage, and a 5% chance that it works... and that the plant will instead attack one target twice. That's still not a good showing for the Daze cantrip.

However, I wonder if the GM overplayed this. Yes, that three-action attack is nasty, but it has only 10' range; so if the party spreads out a bit and uses ranged attacks then this shouldn't be such a hard encounter. The bushes are too dumb to use tactics, and slow enough that you should be able to just walk away from the battle...
Its more than a 5% chance to work though, as a crit fail is 10 less than the DC. And my DC was quite high. But I take your point.

Spoiler: More on how we died
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Yeah, the encounter was probably survivable if we hadnt triggered it the way we did, but I dont see us all surviving it either. Our problem is that the paladin marched into the clearing while I was trying to see if the alchemist had enough fire to burn the tree down. She triggered all 3 bushes, who moved in the surprise round and boxed us into the 10ft square entry way. Difficult terrain to either side, and on a Roll20 map, so we couldnt extend backwards and flee. I actually triple moved through the difficult terrain but it was too late at that point. The alchemist was the last one standing, and managed to slip by and run, but only had one action to do it, due to trying to save someone else. The bushes double moved... Technically I survived, as everyone else was out of hero points, so they all died, while I merely auto stabilised

The bushes, after all, move at 20, and a lot of races move at 25.


I feel a lot of my issues with spell damage can be rectified by simply adding the casting stat to damage. That way, rolling snake eyes on Grim Tentacles, and then having the enemy save for half doesnt feel so much like a waste of a 1st level spell slot. I could have done (2+4)/2=3 damage instead of (2)/2=1 damage. Sigh. Should have just taken magic missile, but it didnt fit the theme I wanted... Its annoying that once again, its just simply the best spell. I get its signature, but sigh.