Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
The reason I referred to them as "plot powers" is that many really high level spells are either things that should be the rewards for an adventure (you have a wish granted) or a cause for an adventure (oh no, the evil magic-user has a Doom Bot clone, so we have to adventure some more to stop them once and for all!). They are things that make the plot work, and they lose a lot of their shine when you can do them every day.

Your Clone example is actually kinda perfect - why does that have to be a spell? Why couldn't that be, I dunno, a magic item or something? Why does that need to be something that one single class can grab by default?
Oh that makes sense I agree with that. I kinda like the idea of high level spell casters being able to do that but your way makes lots of sense and maybe it should be an "epic level" thing.

Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
EDIT:



That's the thing - there is a reason. PCs and NPCs aren't built on the same rules in the first place, because they fill very different roles in the game. For example, most NPCs effectively exist for a single fight, so they need a different way to pace how many spells they can throw out. In a less mechanical sense, why should your Wizard (who, if you're playing from 1st level, probably started doing this whole "magic" thing less than a decade or two ago) have access to magic that is as good, if not better, than someone who literally turned themselves into an immortal skeleton so that they could study magic forever?
Quote Originally Posted by Trask View Post
But there already is an implicit difference, with all the rituals to summon orcus, hordes of undead minions, mind controlled slaves and whatnot that villains usually have in adventures. If a PC had access to every kind of magic that NPC's are implied to have by plot and such, it would be a huge problem.

I dont think it's bad that these things be separate because they exist for different purposes.
For whatever reason despite not thinking that lots of things others say are metagamey* are metagamey that feels a bit too metagamey for me but, it may still be the best solution.


*Legendary resistance and not starting with your biggest spells being the most common thing i see referred to a metagamey that I don't consider as such. Not trying to say that opinion is wrong but trying to suggest that to my mind I have a high bar for metagameyness.