The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

[TotallyNotEvil]

I think you're overestimating the power of DR 15 versus a barbarian, and underestimating the downside of -6 Intelligence and Constitution --.

(1) The damage for a raging, Power Attacking barbarian is around 2d6+13 to 2d6+15 at level 3 (the lowest ECL you think the huecava should be at). So right from the start, barbarians will damage you on most or all hits. At level 6, the damage for a raging, Power Attacking barbarian is around 2d6+21 to 2d6+22. Obviously, your DR is still helping a lot at this point, but it's likewise pretty obvious that it's going to get outclassed by barbarian damage pretty soon, and we're not even into the teens yet. And with a morale pool that's probably a third behind a typical cleric*, and no additional defenses against magical attacks, that DR is just enough to get by (when it comes to barbarians, that is. Gnome sword-and-board fighters, you can kill all day--but then so can a crusader).

(2) Nearly anyone who can take it will have only one skill point per level after taking it, meaning that they won't be able to max out both Concentration and Knowledge (religion). I'd say that's a pretty bad drawback for a divine caster, wouldn't you?

Also, what "big Wis boost" are you talking about? It's a +2, I didn't think that was anything special? The sum total of ability boosts is zero.


*The sweet spot for huecava hit points (in terms of "not being far behind the cleric") is right at that level where the cleric can't quite afford an amulet of health.

At level 2, the huecava has 1d12 (12 hp) against the cleric's 2d8+6 (18 hp). That's with 14 Constitution for the cleric, and LA +1 on the huecava.
At level 6, the huecava has 5d12 (38 hp) against the cleric's 6d8+12 (42 hp). This or hereabouts is the sweet spot.
At level 10, the huecava has 9d12 (64 hp) against the cleric's 10d8+30 (78 hp). The cleric has bought an amulet of health +2.
At level 14, the huecava has 13d12 (90 hp) against the cleric's 14d8+56 (122 hp). The cleric is wearing an amulet of health +4.
At level 18, the huecava has 17d12 (116 hp) against the cleric's 18d8+90 (174 hp). The cleric is using an amulet of health +6.

Obviously, compared to a paladin, or a cleric with a higher starting Constitution, the huecava is even worse off. Likewise, a huecava rated at LA +2 will be even further behind, and will also lose a full spell level (if a spellcaster) or significant feats/base attack/saves etcetera. There's pretty much no way to come out ahead on anything but DR with this template, and that DR can be obtained more easily with quasilycanthrope.

I goofed on the Wis, thought Hurcuvas got +6 to it instead of +2, but nevertheless, the DR point stands.

Anyone getting hit by that kind of damage at those levels is going to be instantly annihilated. You even point out the expected HP of a Cleric, which is a fairly sturdy class!

And I did qualify my statement with "as long as you keep your AC up". So the Barnarian tanking his to-hit with all-out PA isn't terribly likely to get through heavy armor + NA (he'd be rolling, what, +4~+6 vs an AC in the low twenties?). And even if he does, he hits you for a bit of damage while, again, anyone else that got hit like that would be gone.

Another poster commented on a CR 3 Ogre smacking someone for an average of 16 damage. Your 12 HP suddenly don't look so little when you only take 1-2 damage whenever you are hit.

To say nothing of going up against creatures or builds that rely on multiple weaker hits. They are throughly ****ed, and a lot of monsters go for the multiple natural weapon routine.

So yes, the DR 15 is a massive advantage in survivability.

Even by 10th level, if both your comparison cleric and the Huecuva take a single hit, the Huecuva gets ahead in HP left. By 14th, the difference is little more than two hits. The difference grows every time the DR triggers.

It's a very strong +1, and a weak-ish. +2.