Brainstorming a setting for a Tier 4 classes only game

[LurkytheDwarf]

Not sure if you were being sarcastic here or not. I was making those suggestions based on Mesopotamian history. Renegades did sometimes come out of nowhere and seize power in a city-state, although their "empires" tended not to outlive them.

Well, there’s no reason why one or more of the city-state temples couldn’t be devoted to a Lawful Good deity. And while the city-states are each devoted to a specific god, they don’t own that god, so it’s likely that one or more LG deities would be worshipped around the entire region. There’s plenty of leeway to have paladins both as temple agents as well as independently roaming instruments of divine will.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't use "wow" in a text-based discussion. While I'm not as familiar with Mesopotamian lore, with Conan being one of the quintessential sword-and-sorcery stories it was just very interesting how closely the idea synched up with it.

I do think I like sticking with LG paladins. The Incarnate with their rigid ideologies could often be used as the standard "elite enforcer" for many temples. I was considering the individual patron gods to be the older model in the city-states. I've started to construct one religion (a Lawful Neutral deity with a portfolio of leadership, destiny, and secrets) that would be breaking the previous mold, exporting their faith throughout the city-states and in some cases rising to total authority. This would be a relatively new invention (perhaps over the last hundred years or so). I could see both crusading paladins and scheming priests working for various holy orders within the church.

Adepts are right there. They can do crafting just fine. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Craft Wand were a common feat for them, since they have so few spell slots. Same with the half-casters.

Psychic rogue's power isn't really dependent on UPD, so I wouldn't expect it to lose much power. However, if your campaign takes place at lower levels (say levels 1–10), a lot of classes might move around because of that.

I think NPC classes want to still be around for gameplay reasons. They are legitimately useful for building NPCs.

For Adepts, I'd combine the benefits of Adept and Religious Adept, and maybe a few selected spells from Urban Adept, and pick which domains are readily available for them to pick. Then I'd make the feats:

Scribe Scroll
Inscribe Rune
Craft Magic Arms & Armor
Craft Wand
Brew Potion
Craft Wondrous Item

the main feats available, and then figure out what these Religious/Urban/etc. Adepts of, oohhhhh, 13th level and below can make with these feats can make, and those are the magic items available in the setting.

Or possibly even remove Craft Wondrous Item and Brew Potion, and have the main crafters max out at Adept 5/Runecaster8 (for Improved Runecasting), and have Wondrous Items be those legendary items of yore.

I generally agree with this. I don't really want to yet put any limitations on or go beyond the standard variants of what any of the tier 4 classes are capable of, but I do prefer the idea of the more powerful items being leftovers from the fallen ancient empire which spawned the spellthieves. That the adepts have the easiest path toward crafting gives me the notion that they used the expendable items (wands, scrolls, potions) to rise to their positions of prominence in the government and commerce of the city-states.

Does this mean you'd adjust the prices for base items, since they're based on tier 1-2 caster level access?

I like this idea as well. While I don't mind the presence of wands of cure light wounds and potions of protection form evil, I would prefer to limit what specific spells are available in those forms by using the adept spell list and increasing the base cost of things like 2nd+ level wands because adepts' default CL for those spells is higher (which would mean a cure moderate wounds wand would heal like 2d8+4 but cost 6,000 gp to show that more powerful magic is still harder to come by).

I was just about to post this same sentiment. Probably no reason why anything under Tier 4 couldn’t make an appearance. The expert would see heavy use for the artisans who contribute to the city-state temple economies.

Also, I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet, but are there any restrictions on prestige classes? Presumably anything relying on higher-tier base classes would be absent, so no arcane hierophants, but what about other PrCs?

I think mystic theurge with ranger/spellthief is possible, if not exactly ideal, but it could make for an interesting NPC if the PrC is allowed.

Yes, I was already thinking the rest of the NPC classes would be in use, just not of any interest to player characters. And some of the lower tiers could also make appearances, perhaps in strange places like a lost city beneath a pyramid cut off from the world for ages, or some such place.

As far as prestige classes, my initial thought was to make these brainstorming posts a sort of series. Get the basics for the type of world (terrain/authority centers/culture/dangers), and then move on to what player races should be available in another thread and finally prestige classes in the last after we know what the setting/characters/foes look like. But yes, I would like a highly tailored list of prestige classes, and hopefully perhaps elevating some of the niftier ones because they couldn't compete with the power levels of the higher tiers.

To that end, in this thread at least, I should bring up Dangers/Foes. I've been considering it for the last couple of days, and I'll admit as far as low-level enemies are concerned I'm sort of tired of orcs and goblins and kobolds. Actually, when I think about how dangerous the wilderness is supposed to be, it's kind of hard imagining them surviving out there. My initial thought is to lean towards the content of books like Lost Empires of Faerun and the Fiend Folio. It jells with the notion of the terrible dread of the wilds and the ever-present Plane of Shadow and perhaps the invasion through it of entities from alternate material planes. The kind of setting which doesn't have traditional dragons, instead it has Linnorms.

Spoiler: Inspirational Artwork + Early Stage Flavor Ideas

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City-State of Pa-Bolushti: Origin of the Eastern Spice Road.


City-State of Kalygatt: On the border of the barbarian hinterland; northernmost of the Cathedrals of the Awakened God.


Valley of the Firstborn: Frequent passage of barbarian nomads, though few dare enter the fortress-tombs of the ancients, and of those none return.


Priscus Town: Where the every lights burn all night; not far from Kalygatt.


Sun-Blessed Nimosura: Jewel of the Dunes; the reptile god Gunwar Pazzel is dead, Keora, Goddess of the Free Flame reigns here now; her fire dervish evangelists roam far.


Hall of Thane Gruzvall Cold-Eyes: In the Land of Seldom Sun; far north of Kalygatt.


Common Sights for Those Who Dare the Wildlands




What People Believe the Fate for All Those Who Wander Too Far Off the Map