Quote Originally Posted by Chaosmancer View Post
I'm going to paraphrase this. To truly express how I see this.

"Consider it isn't about you. Consider that, sometimes, the fun of rolling happens only ever fourth or fifth game, when you get to be better than everyone else. That can be fun. But if everyone who rolls **** quits, then nobody ever gets to have the fun of being better than everyone else."


Which, not only makes me look back up to your "skilled players beat rolls" and wonder if playing skilled means you aren't having fun without being the one with great stats, then why does it matter? But also, just makes me furious. Because, you are revealing the lie behind the curtain with that line of "nobody gets to have that fun if everyone quits". The only way that is true is if the fun is being better than someone else.

And if that is the true point in rolling stats, then that system should never be used. Because if your fun relies on you being better than someone else, then the game should not support your fun.

Of course, you will likely try and say you didn't mean that, that I'm putting words in your mouth. But, I'm curious how else you meant it? Will you try and defend it by saying that "if everyone quits because they aren't the best then the game will never happen so you never get to play?". That seems to deny the possibility that everyone rolls well. And, if you point out that, well, it is incredibly unlikely that everyone rolls well, which is the point, that waiting for the game where everyone rolls well means you'll never play.... Then, again, I'm confused. Because, it seems the fun of rolling would then be having good stats. And that, again, would put a lie to the "fun in is skilled play" and it would raise the question.

If the fun of rolling is having good stats. Why not just give everyone good stats?

I mean, you never earn the stats either way. It is RNG. So what does it matter if you roll them or get them via an array or point buy? If the goal of rolling is to eventually have fun by being the person who rolled well, just bypass that and give everyone good stats. Then everyone gets to have fun every game, instead of one person every five games.
Or maybe there's more than one way to have fun and you should stop setting up these manufactured binaries to try and support your points.

You can have the lower stat character having fun by using creative gameplay and suboptimal strategies (because while you don't have control of the d20, you do have control of everything your character does in anticipation of and in response to said d20) and the higher stat character having fun because they are enjoying natural aptitudes in comparison to their fellows in the same game. The fun is not oppositional or mutually exclusive. That is all coming from you.