This is a tangent that was spawned in the thread about Chinese views on optimisation/Chinese tier list. I found the topic rather interesting, so I'm making a thread for it as opposed to taking bandwidth from the thread that mostly focuses on how the Chinese community views class balance.

Initial chain of conversation:
Quote Originally Posted by 憂鬱鬱 View Post
The original author:
① Some readers think that the ranking of this list is based on "who can not be easily replaced", I think this is the correct way to read it. In China, there are many optimizers discussing“how to make the most powerful team with a limited number of players.” In fact, a team can only fill 4-6 characters, inevitably most of the classes are considered to be less competitive.

The reason why the paladins are ranked first is that players cannot get a large group saving throws bonus from any other way. And Lore Bard has the most comprehensive spell table (yes, more than the wizards’ and the clerics’), as well as very strong Dispel Magic checks and Counterspell checks to help the team win the spell battle.

A team cannot only be simply made up of pure casters. Fighters have uniqueness is because of their stable and powerful DPR. The reason why other gish classes are at the top is that they have more versatilities for spells and can also contribute stable DPR (although it may be lower than fighters). The divine soul sorcerer has become one of the most favored casters in China, because divine soul sorcerer has access to both the sorcerer’s spell list and cleric’s spell list, and Metamagic.

These classes are difficult to be replaced by lower-tier classes in terms of their uniqueness: other classes have the lower DPR than fighters’; other wizards can hardly provide stable DPR and cast as a caster like Bladesinger; other clerics do not have sorcerer’s spell list and Metamagic as divine soul sorcerer, although they also have some domain features, the distinctiveness of domain features are not enough to get them into the upper tiers.

There is a very popular view in China that the perfect five-person team is made of a paladin + a main caster (such as lore bard, chronurgist) + divine soul sorcerer + DPR classes (such as fighter, gish) + one other class depending on the situations. This may be biased, but it also has some reference value.
Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
I agree with the idea of creating the optimal 4-6 party composition but I fundamentally disagree with the need for a steady DPS class. I believe the more resources you have, the longer you can go - I think the optimal scenario is having either a ridiculous number of no-rest classes or only rest classes. That way all the classes are on the same page. Champion can't handle encounters for 4 alone no matter how much at-will ability it has. That is to say, the more at-will power you have, the longer you can go with all your resources depleted while the more resources you have, the longer you can go before them being depleted. Thus for an optimal party of 4, I generally prefer:
- Lore Bard (Cutting Words is irreplaceable)
- Diviner Wizard (Portent is irreplaceable)
- Martialish Cleric (Arcana if going late; Forge, Grave, etc. are all fine choices too)
- Shepherd Druid (or Moon if the early levels are a huge slog)


That setup gives you plenty of at-will power and daily power and access to basically every ritual in the game. If I were adding a 5th member, Swords Bard and Ancients Pally/Divine Soul are both strong candidates. But I think the more casters you have the better you ultimately get at long slogs simply because you have more resources for a long slog than a party with some at-will characters who will not be able to extend the resources of the party and their at-will ability will be of little use when the party is otherwise unable to adventure. Of course, all-day minionmancy is also a big thing.
Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
Personally I believe it's ideal for all four party members to have both nova capability (for emergencies) AND at-will DPR capability (for efficiently solving non-emergencies).

The way I evaluate a party is to look at the party and count up how much coverage it has on a variety of roles that I consider important.

E.g. Alert Shadow Monk 11, Paladin 9/Wild Sorc 3 [Extended Spell, Quicken Spell], Hexblade 2/Lore Bard 9 [Aura of Vitality, Conjure Animals; Stealth, Perception Expertise], and Cthulock 2/Necromancer 9 [Inspiring Leader, Spell Sniper]:

I see

3 Tanks (Paladin, Monk w/ Darkness, Hexblade)
2 Recon specialists (Monk and Bardlock)
3 at-will ranged damage specialists (Bardlock, Necrolock, plus Shadow Monk and Wild Sorc put together sort of equals three)
2 Summoners (Bardlock, Necromancer)
2 single-target controllers (Monk Stunning Strike, Paladin with Wrathful Smite or grappling)
2 area controllers (Bardlock and Necromancer with spells like Hypnotic Pattern and Confusion)
2.5 Healers (Paladin and Bardlock are both amazing, and the Necromancer's self-healing via Grim Harvest is sort of an extra 0.5)
3 teleporters (monk (Shadow Jump), Necrolock and Bardlock (Dimension Door))

Minimal nova capability here (Monk nova with Flurry + Stunning Strike is merely okay, and the paladin can dual-wield for smiting but it's nothing special compared to e.g. a Hexvoker) so I'm calling that zero.

TL;DR having both at-will and nova capabilities doesn't require having separate characters.
I largely agree with what Max is saying. Every class has some at-will power in the game (for casters, cantrips; for mundanes, attacks), and how much at-will you've got depends on your classes. Similarly, every class as resources though how you recover them and what they provide you with varies. There are especially some harder to adjudicate "nearly-at-will abilities", such as Animate Dead, Tiny Servitor, and company, and some "with sufficient slot investment can be kept up all day"-abilities such as Conjure Animals, Holy Weapon, etc. (largely spells with a duration between ~1 hour and 4 hours - not all dayish like 8 hour+ but not "immediate" like 1-10 mins) Those tread the fence between At-Will and resource consumption; they do consume resources, but essentially you use resources for an all-day at-will offensive power in the first case, or are able to get multiple encounters' worth of time from a single slot in the second one to the point that you can get all-day coverage for said ability.

Honestly, a framework of class at-will ability would be interesting to establish; it could then be expanded with a framework defining their short rest and long rest ability. Such a system could then be used to analyse the all-day contributions a class is capable of in different parties and how the party dynamics depend on the resources available and being used. I'm thinking it wouldn't be that difficult to process in practice and it could actually provide the most useful "Tier-like system" to date.