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Thread: I don't know how to dungeon

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    Default Re: I don't know how to dungeon

    Yora, you have my sympaties. I completely understand, or at least have the feeling I do. Let me start with simple: me neither. I'm still learning it.

    I love dungeons. Well, I love the 'idea' of dungeons. Vast, sprawling mazes of corridors, puzzles, traps, obstacles, monster lairs, all that in ruined underground city? Beautiful idea.

    But I can neither design that nor run them (without exhausting my players). They also love dungeons - or the idea - but we clash at the execution. Once they get into the dungeon, they hurry through it, disregarding anything - trying to short-cut their way to the end as soon as possible. They never explore anything. Save for one or two things that look interesting and safe.

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    I once asked them why. They told me my dungeons are scary places...


    And since I do not play DnD, I have to work the dungeons up from the ground.

    Well, no help so far? Let’s try to give some.

    Most fun advice:
    Try running How to Host a Dungeon.
    That was actually the first dungeon of mine that I liked. It felt natural, offered exactly the logical stuff and still provided me with some creative inputs. And history!

    When I let my players in, they were finally interested in what lies beyond – and while they were still scared (and we had to cut the exploration short because the weekend was getting to its end), they tried to find their way.

    ...actually, if you do not like drawing dungeon maps, if you run it here, I’ll gladly draw one for you.

    Let’s assume there is an NPC (some ancient dude, sitting on his beard, living from dungeon energy) somewhere in your dungeon. Here are some ways you can look at the dungeon to make it more exploration-worth:

    Dungeons are a straight way to your goal (if you know which way to go). First, do it as usual. You have your guardian, your door, your NPC. This is the Skyrim way – their dungeons often have one single highway to the goal and few side attractions. First make the highway.

    Dungeons are safe storages. If talking about crypts & catacombs, it’s easy to understand why there is actual loot: people put shiny stuff to their dead. They do not wish for it to get stolen, and may add stuff later (and bodies too), so there need to be guardians, doors and traps. Traps must be deadly, but the right guy should be able to bypass them. Doors may require keys (that’s why we drag the thief around) or may be of the „puzzle“ type, because people tend to lose keys but know how their crest looks.

    Dungeons are puzzles themselves. Think of the dungeon as the puzzle. Players have to solve it: how to reach that room we see up there? How to open the damned door? Where is the damned door now? Navigating the dungeon can be easy for the guys who know their ancient languages, but if not, they will not decipher the runes below the moss. So: start adding other roads, how to get where. Shortcuts. Hidden corridors. Solving the dungeon also means finding the optimal loot. Think the trolley problem – there are few smaller gems and one large statue that looks rather expensive, but if you try to remove it, the floor may collapse (a trap and puzzle!), getting you deeper into the dungeon (which some may like).

    Dungeons are stories. The first part was built by dwarves. The other part by dark elves. Dwarves and elves met in the middle, and had a long, protracted war – thus the fortifications. Many died, but when the earthquake came, almost nobody was left standing. Dwarven colony became locals‘ catacombs, the elven part was occupied by goblins and thus walled off as soon as they were discovered. Think about the history – the buildings will stand, but their purpose will change. Their contents and occupants will change. In the end, mostly vermin, monsters and undead will stay. But before that, there were proud cities, tombs of kings. Writings on the wall, engravings, scrolls – they should find those all the time. And the changes will be noticeable – the players should be able to discern „what the hell happened here?“

    Dungeons are collections. Collectibles are something that most people enjoy. So: the guy who built it could easily put his most interesting stuff there. The strangest stuff, maybe – for safekeeping. As you walk the halls, you see a large behemoth of a cauldron, hanging from chain whose links are thicker than your leg. Don’t tell your players it was a kitchen. Let them guess and then find it out – they will feel smarter. The strange apparatus on the table? A teleportation box, but not finished. Where is the other side? If you repair it you may know...

    Dungeons are strange. As someone mentioned above: players will readily poke & test strange stuff. I once managed to stall a group of heroes in single room with an Eye-of-the-Beholder style niche in the wall & button. You insert something into the niche, push the button, something else appears (sometimes good, sometimes bad). There was a method to this madness, and they started to put almost everything inside. They did not care why it was there, but amused themselves.

    Dungeons are sidequests. Your NPC is there. That’s the highway. Now give them few side streets and alleys. Each is a sidequest. There are other NPCs, some will be helpful if you help them. Some will need something, others will just want to shoo the PCs away from their door. But when they find a scroll describing king’s old sword, stored on his catafalque – that should be a sidequest. With its own highway, with its own guardian, door and maybe a trap or two.

    Dungeons are ruins. Ever went into a decrepit building? Half-broken stairs, floor that gives way, the strange mold – well, that’s modern day adventuring. Your players venture into ancient halls of mystery, which means not only traps and puzzles, but traps and puzzles of natural decay. Each room will have debris of some kind. But the debris can be a puzzle, a trap, an obstacle, or even NPC. The nice bridge that leads to upper level? Broken. The ramp that leads below to the lower level? Flooded. The door to the guardian? Locking mechanism is in the lower level, stuck and also flooded, and it’s on timer (because once you pull the lever, the water pressure will again make it close).

    Dungeons are combat arenas. I think you know this part well, so no comment here. Okay, one comment: think of all the things above. A fight on a narrow bridge to stall a group of attackers is fine. The same fight on a narrow bridge right over the guardian’s lair is better. Especially if the guardian is a giant octopus and the bridge is starting to collapse.

    Comments?

    Puzzles: puzzles can be used as locks, but also as navigation. Think the „two brothers“ puzzle (one true, one lying) and try conceiving a crypt with it in mind. The puzzle is there over the first set of doors, but is valid for all other choices inside (each T-intersection, each set of doors, each couple of keys).
    I also liked your idea „doors that require secret knowledge“. That’s already a good idea for a sidequest in the dungeon – of course the high priests of the temple would know the answer, but there needs to be a backup. So the party can either try to piece together the lore in the dungeon or head to nearest library to find the book which will get them to correct NPCs... you know the drill.

    Final three bits:
    Have you tried pointcrawls? Chris Kutalik has few nice articles about them, but basically: you do not make the whole dungeon, but series of choices, which lead from point to point.

    Definitely Try the How to Host a Dungeon minigame. I’m quite sure you’ll enjoy it. Just make sure to finish it – it gets more and more fun. It's not a be-all-end-all solution, but it will make you look at dungeons a bit differently.

    Lastly... if I remember, one of your preferred playstyles is a hexcrawl. Tell me: how do you make an interesting hexcrawl that supports exploration? And how could you use the same for a dungeon? I’ll gladly discuss this as I like hexcrawls, but could not run them with my players...
    Last edited by Lacco; 2020-08-12 at 03:27 PM.
    Call me Laco or Ladislav (if you need to be formal). Avatar comes from the talented linklele.
    Formerly GMing: Riddle of Steel: Soldiers of Fortune

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran View Post
    Instead of having an adventure, from which a cool unexpected story may rise, you had a story, with an adventure built and designed to enable the story, but also ensure (or close to ensure) it happens.