OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

[Ionathus]

If saying that Jirix stomping on the demon roach is symbolic of either his rejection of Team Evil or his petty tyranny is reading too much into it, then what would you call insisting that people are using any of this as a reason to say all of Gobbotopia and every goblinoid ever are bad?

Probably "Reading Too Much Into It", if I'm being honest.

But then, I've been mired in "Redcloak is obviously Evil Forever and he must now be written out of the story because I, personally, don't like him" debates for the past two weeks and I'm starting to see those boogeymen everywhere.

His very next sentence, however, is „if we all agree on that course of action today” [emphases mine].

Good point. I wondered if they'd already had a separate "Stop the Plan" Godsmoot and voted on that plan, and this one was a "There's Only 1/5 Gates Left" Godsmoot instead. But maybe they're bundled as a single issue (even though I'd expect the Gods to have different allegiances for each one).

That is literally the Plan: to get the violent, deadly McGuffin, and then negotiate (instead of releasing it which would be somewhat counter-productive anyway).

I'm not arguing that this isn't The Dark One's Plan -- it's 100% a cunning and effective (if risky) plan, as far as TDO and Redcloak are concerned.

I'm arguing that the other gods wouldn't be willing to allow this plan. "Let him have his superweapon that can kill us instantly, then once he's calmed down and appeased with that, we can negotiate" is a weird choice.

Technically, malnutrition can kill them just as well on the long run, but it is indeed their only ”natural enemy”, so to say. That is the chief reason why the Plan could work if (and I acknowledge that is a big if, between the gods, Xykon, the IFCC and others) the Ritual is completed and the Gate is not destroyed immediately afterwards. And yes, that fear could also become a major issue for Team Purple, to say the least. Nonetheless, enough gods are sufficiently desperate to negotiate with a terrorist organisation. We are yet to see how far they are willing to go.

Yes, this comes up from time to time as an idea, but I'm a little skeptical about it. If that's what he is hoping for (the others will cave to prevent a new snarl from getting created), he could just try to violently get himself involved in the decision making now.

Good point about malnutrition. And I figured TDO would also be unwilling to get too violent because he also doesn't want to create further Snarls -- however, he's already proven willing to risk destruction by tampering with the first Snarl, so maybe that doesn't hold up even now!

To be honest, I think part of the reason TDO isn’t part of the discussions is because he’s not actively trying to be part of them - I would imagine he perceived the initial status of goblinoids as an unwillingness to treat him and goblinkind fairly and cut ties because he thought they had no reason or intention to listen to him.

As we know, this isn’t quite true, but it’s not hard to see why TDO thinks like that, especially considering the nature of his ascension in the first place.

Agreed. Trying to get Redcloak to negotiate is particularly difficult because of the last time TDO tried to negotiate with PC races. It's both believable and compelling that TDO is unwilling to communicate with gods like Thor or even Loki -- he feels alone and betrayed, still reeling from the last time he came to anybody offering peace and goodwill and got brutally murdered for his troubles.

These last comics have gotten me to reread SoD. It's even more brutal to goblinoids and Redcloak's family than I'd remembered.

This story is so wonderfully compelling. I'm so excited to see where this goes!