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Thread: Cyberpunk - What exactly is it?

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Cyberpunk - What exactly is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    "Neuromantics".
    Interesting word. Is there a relation between Cyberpunk and Dark Romanticism?

    In 1983 Bruce Sterling started to write the Cheap Truth fanzine in which he gave an overview of recent SF stories. In Zine 2 he writes about Gibsons Burning Chrome (1982): "This is the shape for science fiction in the 1980s: fast moving, sharply extrapolated, technology literate and as brilliant and coherent as a laser". Burning Chrome then won a Nebula award. Sterling viciously attacked the Science Fiction and Fantasy literature of the late 70 and early 80s as being boring, run of the mill, following literary formalities and being so far off the technological realities they are pretty much magic make believe.

    In 1986 Michael Swanwick wrote “A User's Guide to the Postmoderns”, in part as a response to Sterlings mad ramblings. He categorizes the SF writers in Humanists, who prefereed characterization and traditional prose, and Cyberpunk, which focused on energetic, intense dataflood.

    most influential cyberpunk books
    I like to add The Illuminatus Trilogy (1969-71) by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson on that pile, or better, under it. It is not in the genre, but without it the 1980 science fiction might be very different. The book is a major piece of neo-anarchist culture and was big the 80s hacker scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Think about it: In Neuromancer, Case is a "Hacker". The Matrix is basically the only space where the "outlaws" are ahead of the corporations in any meaningful way ... In Snow Crash, Hiro is also a "Hacker", but "The Street" has become entirely meaningless because it became fully commercialized by corporations.
    I don't agree with that: Gibsons Cyberspace is as locked down and commercialized by the corps as meatspace. But like meatspace it is decentralized, fragmented and there are grey areas and black markets. Some systems are more protected (banks) and others are less protected (gardening robots). As in "Burning Chrome" the people in Neuromancer (1984) spend a good part of the story preparing their heist: Case has skill, but even he can't just walk into some high security zone. There is actually a very important point in the book about the cyberspace equivalent of having a gun pointed at ones head, but i don't want to spoil too much for those who haven't read it but are somehow reading this. Let me just say: any type of crime requires to be, in some sense, ahead of those who enforce the law, because otherwise the crime would not be possible and one would just get arrested trying it.

    There is a point to be made about the aheadness of outlaws in the Technomancer story in Count Zero (1986), but that is another book ;-)

    A bit of context for the uninitiated: the Sprawl Series has 10 stories, each focusing on one person, that play in the same world. They meet each other and other figures of the world and their stories tie in with each other. It starts with "Burning Chrome" (Jack), and "Johnny Mnemonic" (Johnny) both short stories that happen before "Neuromancer" (Case) and have backstory for some people Case interacts with. "Count Zero" has three plot lines: (Turner) and (Bobby) start a new saga, (Marly) ties it in with Neuromancer. "Mona Lisa Overdrive" has four stories that continue the second saga (Henry), (Kumiko), (Mona) and (Angie) and have some bits of epilogue for characters in the earlier books. Looking at the patterns Kumiko is the hook for a new saga, but the last book is the weakest of the series and Gibson then took a step back and wrote a steampunk novella together with Sterling before starting a new series.

    If one has to pick one book of the sprawl series, it is Neuromancer, and if one can only recommend one book of the whole genre, then that one is obviously a good pick as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    If one were to pick the most influential cyberpunk book and movie respectively, it'd probably be Snow Crash and Bladerunner. I could see a case being made for other books, such as Neuromancer being pretty influential as well...but those are largely similar.
    Neuromancer has those dark romantic elements of escapism, love, depression, drugs and insanity. That works very well when confronted with rampant capitalism creating poverty and industrialized rape. Snow Crash (1992) wants to be more upbeat and between mocking kafkaesque forms of capitalism and descriptions of the cadavers of the poor piling up like trash that leaves an almost sociopathic aftertaste of disconnectedness. Well that is cyberpunk for you xD Neuromancer is a film noir, Snow Crash is an action-flick with lots of narration. They are actually making it into a movie and i bet many people will be very annoyed because a lot of details about Enki and Babylon will end on some corporate cutting room floor for being too cerebral.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Snow Crash is special for a reason. A lot of stuff and aesthetic started with Neuromancer and Snow Crash brought this particular development to a logical end point, in a sense, offering conclusion.
    Stephenson earned a place in the Cyberpunks hall of fame for his works, i would not deny that, but i do not consider Snow Crash a well rounded perfect form of the genre. I read it, i like it but I honestly don't see it on that pedestal. (Edit: yes i saw the anarcho-capitalisms final form aspect in Florians post, but i am going to ignore it.)
    Maybe i am giving Stephenson too less credit? Is he responsible for the jacket wearing, wakizashi bearing, skateboard riding too cool for school "rebel without a cause" form of cyberpunk? No one in their right mind would want to be a rundown burned out Gentleman Loser. Maybe Snow Crash simply is a more palatable to a mass audience of young men because "Hiro Protagonist" is hip and easy to identify with.

    There is another, far more influential book, that made that type of cyberpunk popular: Shadowrun (1989)

    When that copyrighted mix of high-fantasy + cyberpunk hit the tabletop gaming stores the FASA Corporation franchised the setting out to multiple authors. In 1990 "Into the Shadows" and "Never Deal With A Dragon" were released and over fifty books followed, some of which are good, not even counting the RPG, just the novellas. If those fall into the cyberpunk genre, then the single most influential cyberpunk book ever was the first Shadowrun rulebook.

    Personally i see them as different genres and for me that means

    Quote Originally Posted by Accelerator View Post
    What are the defining attributes of a cyberpunk world?
    there is no magic, only technology


    - - - edit - - -
    - obviously not a complete list of defining attributes, just an opinion.
    - there is a paragraph about Shadowrun directly above that sentence.
    - i know Clarkes 3rd law, but distinguishing words strengthens their meaning.
    - it was not my intention to claim that anything which has magic can not be cyberpunk.
    - more like: on the "spectrum of hard sci-fi to space fantasy" cyberpunk is close to realism.
    - any definition by exclusion using hard words like "no" and "only" will create harsh reactions.


    I should have left it with Sterling:
    Cyberpunk is fast moving, sharply extrapolated, technology literate and as brilliant and coherent as a laser
    Last edited by Lo'Tek; 2020-09-09 at 06:26 PM.