1. - Top - End - #166
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lord Raziere's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: No more Detect Good. Detect Holy instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by NigelWalmsley View Post
    I get that. There's a real desire to just do hack and slash. And that's fine. But you know what Alignment does in that situation? It raises awkward questions about why you're the literally-and-explicitly Good guys if what you do is practically indistinguishable from violent robbery. If you want to sweep morality under the rug, absolutely the last thing you want to do is throw around Good and Evil (especially in a traditional fantasy setting).
    Yeeeah, the only reason videogame rpgs get away with this "kleptomaniac killer" thing is gameplay and story segregation: most rpgs don't acknowledge the hero is going around stealing things from random containers, nor do they talk about random encounters all that much. the story often assumes they're moral people and focuses on the important fights they do rather questioning the morality of every single encounter. this is partly because the game needs mechanics to support a gameplay loop and there is only so much dialogue you can put in due to work

    y'know, unless they're specifically pointing out how your not a good person for doing so in a post-modern or snarky manner.

    Edit: so....yeah, DnD as always, has a bit of identity problem. its gameplay loop of going into dungeons, killing monsters and acquiring loot contradict its alignment system. why? because adventurers going around killing things in dungeons is actually the least effective way to solve things using objective morality. the logical moral conclusion of the alignment system is that evil should be redeemed, because killing them sends them to the lower planes where they lose all hope of redemption, empowering the lower planes. But the murderhobo style of play is so ingrained into DnD that it is the assumed default, with even a specific term for it and every videogame that has its roots in DnD being basically that very same playstyle just with the social mechanics replaced with cutscenes that contrast with what the player is actually doing, and people kill goblins and orcs in DnD all the time. Thus evil is slowly winning, according to such logic. except this is game that supposed to be about good winning, heroic fantasy which is a genre that supposed to be about Good winning. so the stated goal of the game and what is actually happening doesn't match. except without the gameplay/story segregation of a videogame you have to come up with a reason why they actually do and.....DnD does a poor job of that. in the sense that it doesn't have an explanation either. it just assumes you want to play random adventurers and kill things in combat......

    .....when arguably the best way for good to win is to be a diplomat who maxes diplomacy who then proceeds to persuade all the nations to follow the edicts of the good gods or something, then uses their institutions to train a bunch of professionals to do all the adventuring work for you but instead of keeping it to themselves, takes what they find and figures out how they can be best used for the public good and have a bunch of procedures about whether or not some random ruin should be checked out because there is archaeological concerns about ruining artifacts that might be valuable information, and even then how the professionals should engage with the life forms in there, figuring out which ones should be fought at all before engaging and all that jazz, which would quickly become a procedural kind of thing that I don't think most people would like, no room for quirky adventurer characters when you all need to be stiff professionals following the necessary rules.
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2020-11-04 at 05:12 PM.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".