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    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Epic Martial Disciplines - 9 special disciplines of 9 maneuvers each

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your response here. PairO'Dice Lost's point is that the XP levels should be reduced here making it easier for non-casters to pick up these spells.
    They also described them as being level 6 or 7 spells like ninth level manoeuvrers.
    you should try to get stuff as cool as eighth or ninth level spells with epic manoeuvrers if you want them to be a significant improvement over regular manoeuvrers and do not want your characters to fall too far behind casters.
    Like give a pinnacle manoeuvrer where you create a reflection of any creature you met before for the glass branch(ice assasin equivalent)
    (you make manoeuvrers based on a mirror giant pan dimensional monster and do not use all the potential of the theme: you could also have thrown shapechange but it is still the school to which you gave the most awesome looking stuff)

    Or give a true resurrect on hitting ability to some other branch(an improvement over the heal on hitting already available as a regular manoeuvrer: you ought to have higher level effects with epic manoeuvrers)
    Or yet give a mind blank equivalent stance(or boost) and/or a gain undead immunities stance.
    But no you decided to grant things that that are not even the equivalent of eighth or ninth level spells.

    Also some manoeuvrers are incredibly underwhelming like:
    Heavenly Bulwark
    Invincible Sword Princess (Counter) [Epic]
    Initiation Action: Immediate action
    Trigger: You would take damage
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: End of next turn
    XP Cost: 10,000 XP
    Training Time: 10 days

    The Invincible Sword Princess cannot be wounded, cannot be slain. Blades shatter against her skin, flames wash over her without scorching, and even the wrath of the gods is turned aside.

    The damage you would take is prevented, and you gain DR/- equal to your initiator level for one round.

    Like getting dr equal to your IL: barely helps and it costs 10.000 xp: at that cost you could get magical items better than having that dr all day long: if you did take that you just wasted your xp for no reason.
    It is so bad you can say you wasted your immediate action.
    Because trust me: epic monsters and characters have attacks in spades so countering one and still taking the others is not enough.

    Also Lightning Stroke is seriously bad: if you were playing at a table where you could not hit reliably opponents then you should have played a full caster and never an initiator: you should also add something that makes hitting worth it or else it is useful only at tables where you got that ability 12 levels too late because you had been unable to harm monsters for 12 levels.
    Maybe turn lightning stroke in a boost that apply to all the attacks of the turn.
    Or maybe turn it into an automatic critical hit that do not miss.
    But right now it is underwhelming because the times where it serves you are times where you should have never played an initiator.

    Shining adamant defence shows two major problems: you throw a high save boost but casters had been throwing around higher save boosts and it does not stacks with your save boosting items meaning that buying a +10 cloak of resistance instead is better: you save a lot of xp that way and you benefit from it all day long.(not that saves matters in epic play: monsters throws so many sod per turn the solution is not saves but immunities)

    Impenetrable skin is the most useless stance I know: it gives +12 ac in epic plays where ac does not matters anymore for players because either they got trick to raise it to thousands or it is so low monster would still hit automatically if you added +12 ac because they gave extreme numbers to monsters so regular ac optimisation cuts down on other performances and you give up.
    Maybe it should give some other effect like negate all attacks with natural weapons as the claws and bites shatters on impact with the skin.
    Also "Immediate action action" is a typo in the initiate line: remove one of the two action in it.

    Bladeswarm is underwhelming it performs comparably to that improved variant of magic missile called chain missile at level 3(apply a metamagic or two and it will match closely the damage like for example maximise and empower).(if wotc wrote a sixth level magic missile spell it would probably be stronger than this manoeuvrer)
    The best you can do is like 30d6+10 times int modifier and that is assuming you use that giant crossbow(which is medium sized and an exotic weapon) which is probably considered cheesing it out.
    You should let it at least apply all the effect of the magical modifiers of your weapon.
    Last edited by noob; 2020-11-29 at 01:07 PM.