Quote Originally Posted by Raishoiken View Post
No, the primary source rule just tells you what to refer to if one thing contradicts another. What im saying isnt a contradiction to a rule. Me agreeing that casting a spell is the more common use for spells doesn't mean that the first thing you look at whenever a spell is used in any way is the casting rules. Youre acting like this is the alter self chain, where casting rules are alter self, and crafting rules are polymorph where it " crafting a magic item works like casting except as follows" which is clearly not the case.
No, I'm acting like how the Primary Source Rule (PSR) enforces me to do. I've shown that the PSR states that the PHB is to be considered the primary source for the (basic) rules needed to play the game. Spells are within the domain of the PHB. And this primary source sets casting as the primary (general) way to use/activate spells. Anything else has either to obey these rules or make specific exceptions for its own niche. Specific trumps General is as said a byproduct of the PSR, because this is the conclusion what thrives from the PSR. If everything has to follow the primary source, you can only call out specific exceptions for niches.

Unless the crafting feats explicitly call out to ignore that a spell has to be cast or that it doesn't "count" as a cast anymore, it still only alters the casting rules.

Instead, spells are their own thing. There are many ways to use spells. You either cast them, and use the casting rules because youre casting them, use a spell-like ability or supernatural ability that mimics the spell but still doesnt cast the spell which is admittedly the only that comes close to actually fallong in line with your arguement, or you craft a magic item that contains the spell in some way, where you have to have the spell either known or prepared during which no casting is said to occur anywhere. You dont have to infer when a spell os being cast, the rules literally will always tell you when it is, or if something else entirely is happening




Yes, the rules describe how you activate magic items that then produce a spell.
Activating magic item does not mean spell being cast. Only spellcasters cast spells



This is the only thing your very close to right about.
The spell like abilities mimic spells and alter the requirements for producing the effects, but they still dont cast a spell because casting a spell is defined as a specific thing



They do say trigger. If they meant cast, it would say cast instead. It would actually probably say you cast it, except with these changes. The way they are worded, they say absolutely nothing about how the spell is cast because they dont cast spells. Different items are activated through different methods to produce different effects, some of those effecrs being spells


They dont have to because its obvious and explicitly spelled out in plain words that you are not casting a spell, you are instead triggering it during the crafting process. The rules dont have to say you arent doing something, the rules have to tell you what you are doing. And can you point to me what the rules say? Trigger. Trigger does not mean cast, nor is it just "altered cast" because nothing says it is
I've shown how anything that makes use of spells alters the casting process to their needs. None of em call out that they are not casts anymore. All describe changes in a way that lets you assume that "casting" is the primary/general way to use/activate spells. You still have to failed to provide any proof that crafting may ignore the general casting rules.

Warlock is literally the only thing ever to say that casting would occur. And guess what? Due to the primary source for crafting saying that you trigger spells and dont cast them, it shows a contradiction and therefor does not matter, which soneone else alreadu pointed out to you but you seemed to have ignored



Is there any better way to put this?
Warlocks are simple by design. Compared to other full casters they have lesser things that bothers them (e.g. resource management).
As such, imho it is only natural that they keep the crafting process for warlocks also simple. By faking a required spell cast for crafting, you can bypass any altered spell cast rules for crafting. It is that simple.

If I would follow your interpretation, I would first have to ignore that the PSR directs me to the PHB for the general rules to use spells (Casting). Then ignore that anything that makes use of spells alter the casting rules. Finally I would be left with a dysfunctional warlock ability, since crafting does not make use of "spell casts".
Ignoring the PSR while also causing dysfunction doesn't look so appealing to me, if we have an interpretation that doesn't cause these problems. It leads to a cheesy ability that pumps warlock to T1-2 at best. At the cost of wealth (to craft), with slightly better wealth-o-mancy to compensate for that at the same time.
While this is a strong abuse able ability, it's on the same sanity lvl as other T1-2 classes (broken at best, but not game breaking unless you overuse it^^).