Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
I don't fully agree.

It IS a much needed strip, yes, and very interesting. It also sheds additional light on the matter of the creation of the world when, previously, we only had the Dark One's word on everything.

What this confirms to me is that:
1) The goblins' plight goes to the heart of what we currently call 'privilege'. While ostensibly being equal and held to the same standard, in point of fact it is far easier due to circumstance for the under-privileged monster races to be pushed into being weak fodder for other species than it is for dwarves or humans or elves. The other races were special to one god or another. The goblins had Fenrir. Whatever he thought of them, it was evidently so dis-satisfactory that, in my view, the goblins fired him as god and turned to worshipping one of their own in his place. It's possible Fenrir never revealed himself to them or made worshippers of them, viewing them indeed as mere cattle.

2) We cannot wholly blame the good deities in the pantheon for this. This is not Middle-Earth, where all the world is fashioned to a Good design by Eru Illuvatar, and evil only exists because rebellious lesser spirits pervert his creation. No, this world was created by a mixture of good and evil gods from the start. Because of this, good has input into the process but they only get their way so long as they can persuade enough of the neutral gods to go along. As a result, there's a big section of creation that is evil by design, and the lot of the creatures so-created is thoroughly miserable. The system is unjust and broken from the start due to the presence of evil beings at its creation.

3) Because of this, while we cannot blame the good gods entirely we can certainly blame the three collective pantheons as a whole for setting up a rotten world. Unfortunately, this is an appeal that will only work on the good and neutral gods. The evil gods don't care -- in fact, making it a miserable place is kind of the point, as it fosters evil .

4) Thus , by the nature of good and evil which transcends the gods, the denizens of OOTS world have a legitimate grievance against their pantheons, and a legitimate pretext for war.

Making a better world will require either A) remaking it with the assistance of 'ally' deities or B) The Valkyrie Profile solution.

Spoiler
Show

In the True Ending, Loki kills all the gods but himself, then Luneth kills him and ascends in his place, becoming the sole ruler and god of the world.


The downside is that even with mortal inputs or all formerly-mortal deities, there's no guarantee that the next world will be better than the current one. The gods reflect mortals, and vice versa. A new pantheon made up exclusively of former mortals would probably contains the same mixture of good and evil as the existing pantheon. Which means the new world would also be flawed.

5) This conversation gives Redcloak a pretext to pull the trigger on the snarl and end the world. You read it yourself: The gods aren't going to be making any big changes to the world now that it's been created. Which means the goblins are always going to have the rough end of the stick and Redcloak's dream of a peer civilization equal with the PC races will be forever unrealized.

Given this, Redcloak's likely solution will be to ensure the destruction of this world so that the Dark One will have a hand in making the next one ... IF he can ensure the Dark One's survival to that point, which at this point is doubtful, according to Thor.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
1- Granted, he just creates the monsters. We don't know if they really worship Fenris. Creator deities that otherwise remain inactive in their followers lives is not uncommon. Heck, now I'm reminded of how Crom from Conan the Barbarian is with the Cimmerians.

2- Yeah, which is why they had to put in so many rules to prevent direct intervention. Odin's sand castle metaphor comes back into play here. I imagine the evil gods' agreed if because they know they'll also fight with each other and having a neutral playing field compromise preferrable to endless arguing and presumably starving.

3- Depends which neutral gods. I suspect a large portion of them would be the gods who make wind or fire or whatnot, the elements and aspects of natural. Amoral, but not immoral. The good gods can only do so much to convince their peers and that's after they've all decided to work together. Different deities of good can still disagree. Miko was "Lawful Good", but got on everyone's nerves regardless of alignment.

4- World is gonna be flawed regardless. Entropy demands everything be broken down and faults exposed, when hy we gotta keep pushing.

5- Forever unrealized because of Redcloak's fault. The one who screwed up his brother's work with the goblin/human community and the one who refused what was pretty much the best shot he had with his goals regarding the deal with Durkon, all because at his core's he's a frightened and angry teenager who's way in over his head and while hardened by experience, still too irresponsible to own up to his failures.