Quote Originally Posted by Aristocles22 View Post
I agree that Fenris and maybe Odin should be taken up on neglect. The other gods seem to have done their jobs well. At least, the good ones. Hard to tell what constitutes a "good job" for the evil gods. Keep in mind that many of the evil gods do far worse things to far more people than Fenris seems to have done with the goblins.
I mean... have we seen the evil gods do much on-panel besides Hel? Or really, much of the gods at all?

Well, pushing the goblins back from Azure Citywould at least bring things back to a point from which they can negotiate. Unless that new guy (Jirix?) has done a really good job reforming things, the place was basically a hellhole under Xykon and Redcloak. The sooner its occupation ends, the better.
I don't think that's going to happen considering Vaarsuvius plonked the entire fleet near an abandoned island for them to stay.

Taxation isn't inherently theft, though. We also have no way of knowing what, when, or how much healthcare will be used and by who at any given time. It's basically an unknown, a hedge against that uncertainty. One day, a given individual may have paid way more into a national healthcare system than he ever took out, and the next day he may fall down a ladder and take out far more than he ever put in. Furthermore, it's not like it's a group-based system of theft- or "forced wealth transfer"- from one group to another. It's not the same thing as taking from one group and giving to another in the name of some historical narrative which can easily be manipulated by people seeking to profit from it.
Which is why I really, really hate that there isn't really a better solution that's come up yet and probably won't... but at least letting the goblins have the opportunity to be equals to the other races could help prevent another Redcloak.

Also I suppose healthcare wasn't a perfect metaphor, but metaphors usually fall apart if you pick at them too much I guess.

There's also the matter of rewarding bad behavior, something Durkon himself isn't fond of. Under normal circumstances, he probably wouldn't be suggesting that Azure City be kept by the goblins, but circumstances are dire. If giving up the city would help save all of existence, that's one thing. If giving up the city was done just because the goblins wanted it to make up for their being losers for a long time, that's another. Absent massive reforms, it is clear that the city is suffering terribly under their rule and they don't deserve to hold it for another second. This was made exceedingly clear when we saw what happened to it under the new regime.

Make no mistake: like Redcloak, the goblins and hobgoblins here are a force for evil. Perhaps they were mistreated in the past but that doesn't excuse, justify, or mitigate anything they do now. Maybe the entirety of their species aren't evil and they are not be mindless monsters who are evil incarnate, but if they are like Redcloak or take after him in any way, they are past all reason and have to be treated as such. Force is the only language most of them understand. Just look at what happened when Redcloak was approached for a simple parley. Durkon attempted to reason with him and he nearly died. The best they can hope for is a treaty after this is all over which sees them get more respect in exchange for concessions or failing that, a better role in the next world/a rebuilt version of the current world.
...I'm sorry what?

No, not about the treaty part, that makes sense. But treating goblins as a homogeneous group of evil beings who listen to nothing but force is entirely the kind of mindset that's causing half the problems here.