Testing Tiamat

[Dork_Forge]

Few more: Planar Binding is kosher? I'm limiting myself to one "strong" (not counting familiars and such) permanent minion per character anyways [so Simulacrum or bound creature] so as to avoid the "I have an army"-syndrome that can be endemic in high level play, but both my Druid and my Cleric would be interested in Planar Binding, as discussed in the original thread.

If you want to go for a bound creature then I'd say roll out the binding attempts in the dice thread, if successful then sure.

- How would you rule Elemental Weapon, Magic Weapon and Holy Weapon WRT Timmy's Magic Immunity? It seems consistent to me that as magic weapons deal full damage and these just target the weapon making it a magic weapon, they should work regardless of slot.

I'm torn on this and will think more on it, my git reaction is that it's still a spell interacting with her, the same way a smite spell would. JC has tweeted to the same effect on the matter, but I'll say this is TBC

- How would you rule Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound? Does it do magical or nonmagical damage? Is it a spell-based attack for the purposes of Magic Immunity?

MFH doesn't summon or create a creature, the 'hound' is just a spell effect so the damage would be magical, but the spell would need to be upcasted to get past her LMI.

- How would you rule Defender of Faith? Spell for the purposes of Magic Immunity? Or summoned creature dealing damage?

I think you mean Guardian of Faith? Same as MFH, there's no actual creature involved just the spell, so it'd be negated by her LMI unless upcast.

A summoned creature is a creature unto itself, so they'd fall under her damage immunities instead of her magical immunity. If their attacks are magical then they'd work.

- Can I assume that my characters know they will be fighting a high powered enemy on this day? That of course affects the buffs they will use (e.g. my Simulacrums will only use spells if they know enemies are of significant danger).

A tough fight yes, I'd even hazard to say for the intention of preparing spells (not cantrips or spells known classes) they can assume they're fighting a powerful dragon-based entity so elemental resistance/immunity is likely in play.

The PCs should have no foreknowledge of her Limited Magical Immunity, and should only deduce spells of lower level are directly ineffective once trial and error has occurred. They also should have no reason to assume her greater number of legendary resistances or double distance frighten effect, since I believe she is unique in both of those.

Anyways, I'll start editing my characters into this post:

Spoiler: Andrea Andersson - Human Diviner 14

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Race: Variant Human
Class: Wizard
Subclass: Diviner
Background: Sage

Feats/ASIs:
Bonus. Alert
4. Lucky
8. Resilient: Constitution
12. +2 Intelligence

Stats:
8 Str
16 Dex
16 Con
18 Int
8 Wis
8 Cha

Skills:
Stealth
Arcana
Investigation
Religion
Nature

Tools:

Languages:
Common
Elven
Draconic
Primordial

Equipment:
TBD

Spells known:
C: Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Firebolt, Chill Touch
1. Mage Armor, Shield, Fog Cloud, Sleep, Feather Fall, Comprehend Languages, Grease, Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Unseen Servant, Identify
2. Web, Misty Step, Invisibility, Magic Mouth, Blindness/Deafness, Darkness, See Invisibility, Darkvision, Cloud of Daggers, Gentle Repose
3. Hypnotic Pattern, Haste, Fly, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Phantom Steed, Tiny Hut, Water Breathing, Magic Circle, Glyph of Warding
4. Polymorph, Banishment, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Resilient Sphere, Arcane Eye, Stone Shape, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound
5. Wall of Force, Animate Objects, Wall of Stone, Conjure Elemental, Contact Other Plane, Planar Binding, Bigby's Hand
6. Contingency, Programmed Illusion, Disintegrate, Create Homunculus, True Seeing
7. Simulacrum, Teleport, Forcecage, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion

Spells prepared (18):
1. Mage Armor, Shield, Feather Fall
2. Misty Step, Blindness/Deafness, Darkvision, Cloud of Daggers
3. Hypnotic Pattern, Haste, Fly, Counterspell, Dispel Magic
4. Polymorph, Dimension Door
5. Wall of Force, Bigby's Hand
6. Disintegrate
7. Teleport, Forcecage

Spoiler: Artemis Aversano - Human Archer 14

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Race: Variant Human
Class: Bard
Subclass: College of Valor
Background: Spy

Feats/ASIs:
Bonus. Crossbow Expert
4. Sharpshooter
8. Resilient: Constitution
12. Inspiring Leader

Stats:
8 Str
16 Dex
16 Con
8 Int
8 Wis
16 Cha

Skills:
Stealth (Expertise)
Acrobatics
Perception (Expertise)
Persuasion (Expertise)
Deception (Expertise)
Intimidation

Tools:
Flute
Viol
Lyre
Thieves' Tools
Dragonchess Set

Equipment:
TBD

Spells:
TBD

Spoiler: Alissa Alarthal - Human Healer 14

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Race: Variant Human
Class: Cleric
Subclass: Life Domain

Feats/ASIs:
Bonus. War Caster
4. Resilient: Constitution
8. +2 Wisdom
12. +2 Wisdom

Stats:
8 Str
14 Dex
16 Con
10 Int
20 Wis
10 Cha

Skills:
Stealth
Insight
Perception
Religion
Medicine


Equipment:
TBD

Spells:
TBD

Spoiler: Aislinn Aileanach - Human Shapeshifter 14

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Race: Variant Human
Class: Druid
Subclass: Circle of the Moon

Feats/ASIs:
Bonus. Lucky
4. Resilient: Constitution
8. +2 Wisdom
12. +2 Wisdom

Stats:
8 Str
14 Dex
16 Con
10 Int
20 Wis
10 Cha

Skills:
Stealth
Nature
Perception
Animal Handling
Survival

Equipment:
TBD

Spells:
TBD

Obviously the biggest job is gonna be the spell lists. Magic Jar ban frees me up to pick Contingency or Find Greater Steed (probably just the latter) on my Bard though so that makes life a bit easier. I'll go with the no-magic-items run since with this party, it was never really a relevant consideration in the first place.

EDIT: It occurs to me that I could pretty easily make it a PHB only party. The only big losses are on the Cleric front: missing out on Summon Celestial and some of the better domains would be a significant handicap (though e.g. Life Domain Cleric would be fine but they would lack a long range option in case Tiamat chooses to kite). Valor Bard is worse than Swords but not by that much and Moon is probably worth less than Shepherd but again, not by that much. Fighting Initiate is meh whatever level (I could dip for it if I really cared but I don't like multiclassing). Bard would miss out on Find Greater Steed and Wizard would miss out on Tenser's, Summon Undead and Summon Greater Demon (all basically to the same ends) though those aren't really integral to anything.


You know, I'm intrigued enough by whether this works that I'll test it out first. I'll make a PHB only no magic items party. I'm not as certain of victory as with the party I laid out earlier (I haven't run the numbers) but I think there's a reasonable shot still. I'll think through the Land Druid options but I'm probably going Moon in this case though I don't see either Moon or Valor benefitting the team overtly much. I also need to pick another source of Temporary HP.

I'm interested to see how a PHB only game goes, I think without a lot of the options (and creep) from later sources it'll be much more difficult. To be honest I don't see an avenue for success but I look forward to seeing what happens.