Are Archery Valor Bards any Good?

[Dork_Forge]

It's worth noting that with Jack of All Trades, Bard has competitive Initiative (it's +2 so even with +2 less Dex, it's the same Initiative) and of course better skills (of which Stealth and Perception are particularly useful to an Archer to spot targets and to gain the alpha strike). And all sorts of other stuff. The Fighter may gain competitive damage and probably outdamage the Bard but not by enough that I'd rather have the Fighter than the Bard in a party: the Bard is also bringing 4 full levels of spells (plus the Elemental Weapons) to the table alongside Bardic Inspiration and skills. Is the Fighter damage better enough than the Bard's to make up for all that? I don't think so - indeed, I don't think it's even particularly close.

If I had to make the choice between a bit more damage or an extra character with Dimension Doors, Dispel Magics, Counterspells, etc. and skills + inspiration, that's not a very hard choice to make IMHO. Not unless the other positively crushes on the damage department, but with how 5e is designed, it's just very hard to get too high above the curve (before Simulacrum and broken high level spells in general happen). If I wanted to fill the slot in a party with either and knew the party was going to be seriously challenged [obviously if the challenge isn't very high, it doesn't matter what you play], I'd lean towards the Bard vast majority of the time, even though I'd obviously rather pick Swords Bard than Valor Bard (when I ran Valor Bard in the test, I didn't even end up picking CBE due to Inspiration).

You claimed that it was the best Archer class, what you're talking about with spells (Counterspell, Dispel, DD etc.) is entirely irrelevant to being an archer. You could make a solid claim about it being one of the most versatile choices because it's a fullcaster with Extra Attack, but that's a very different thing.

I think you're also taking 'better skills' for granted as well, the Bard needs Dex + Cha, but especially with feats is spread thin. A Ranger inherently gets Dex + Wis and a Fighter is free to bump whatever secondary stat they want on top of having the most ASI in the game.

Throwing stealth and Perception out there as clear cut benefits to an archer is a little questionable imo, but also reinforces that the Bard isn't the best: archer Rogues compete with/if not outright beat Bards in that area.

So whilst the Bard might have Expertise in a skill, they most likely have a worse stat for that skill to begin with so comparatively Expertise is mostly playing catch up.

Which brings us onto stats, Cha is incredibly important for a Bard, and delaying or cutting off Cha progression for Dex/feats is a significant hindrance. Jack of All Trades is a fitting title to reuse here, the Valor Bard can be adequate/medicore at multiple roles but can't excel at them, hence why OP included the Hexblade level (which brings it's own multitude of problems).

A class/subclass combo that offers essentially nothing but a delayed Extra Attack until 10th level (and then questionable 'benefits' thereafter) can't be the best choice, when so many options actually do buff archery...

RogueJK also had a very good catch that you either didn't see or chose to ignore: Elemental Weapon doens't add the +x to damage, however your damage rolls in your Tiamat thread certainly did. So wouldn't it be fair to say that your experience with the VB is coloured by a damage boosting misunderstanding? (nevermind the implications of another incorrect source of damage on the simulation)