Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
3e tried to be simulationist bit failed. For any other edition, no way, not even close.

The first rule of D&D Club is if it is DM vs Player you are Doing It Wrong (TM)

Not encouraging storytelling is a feature, not a bug. (Okay, this one is obviously just a preference )
People really misunderstand the nature of old school D&D - probably because they played it when they were 10 at best, or heard about it from people that played it when they were 10. And 10 year olds are usually pretty bad GMs, especially in a system that gives them a lot of freedom.

Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
This is a pretty good summary of why it's hard to find players that enjoy PtbA, and D&D type games are wildly popular but always short on GMs. Most players want to play, they don't want to do the GMs work for them.

It's a good game if you've got a table full of GMs though. Or budding improv actors / authors. And there are definitely some
fish like that in the sea. It's just you usually need to hit a large convention or play online to find them.
That nature is often overemphasized, I think. While it's true that in the first session of AW you're supposed to do a bunch of that, that's fairly limited (per the examples, not explicitly) to the first session. The examples from other areas tend to be more traditional in their approach.

That said, there's a huge culture around AW and other "narrative" games that emphasizes that. However, the games work just fine without it. It's the "what's in the box" question - if you ask the GM what's in the box, how do they answer? It can be predetermined, it can be random, it can be made up, or they can ask you. Or, often, some combination of the above. But each answer will appeal to different people.

Personally, I prefer avoiding the last one outside of game setup. Most player input beyond that is what I call "implicit" input - if a player is obviously assuming something to be true or real, and it's reasonable, then they're correct in their assumptions. I might also play with letting players not involved in the current scene come up with stuff to keep them involved.

But the "EVERYTHING MUST BE MADE UP BY THE PLAYERS" (okay, I overemphasize slightly) crowd is real, and they're very vocal, and I frankly push back against them where I can (I do have a bit of a voice in the Fate community overall).