Quote Originally Posted by paladinn View Post
Is it my imagination, or is this thread really about turning 5e into 4e?
Just in case Morty's answer didn't suffice, I believe the issue you are having here is an example of the Association Fallacy; X being associated with a Y that is not widely regarded does not itself mean that X is to not be widely regarded.

If the aspects being discussed in this thread were included in 4e (I never played it, cannot confirm), it does not mean these aspects are themselves 4e or to be associated in the same manner.