Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
I'm not sure that extremely powerful godlike beings could be classified as children.
Me neither. Nowhere does Tolkien himself describe the ainu as "children". We don't know how immortal spirits develop -- it's almost certainly they never had nappies which needed changing -- but I think it's fair to assume they were of "age" when they were invited by Eru to participate as co-creators in his masterpiece. For all we knew, they had existed in the place beyond time for centuries or millenia before the work was attempted.

Besides, another point is that the world was not full-made when the song was complete. It was instead a foreshadowing of all that would be in the world that was to be created. When the Ainu came to the world and became the Valar, the vision they saw in song still had to be brought about by millenia of work on their parts. Melkor could have done what he only feigned to do, which was to go down into Ea and labor diligently to undo the harm he had caused with his song. Instead he doubled down on the actions he had performed in the song, making things worse and worse. Rather than pushing back against the foreshadowing and the doom he had helped create, he hastened and continued it by every means he could.

I mentioned "Breaking bad" yesterday. While reading up on it I saw this comparison between Walter of Breaking Bad and Tony Soprano of the "Sopranos" mob movie. They represented two different kinds of evil: Walter has someone who was born in light but deliberately abandoned it for darkness, while Tony was born in darkness but turned down opportunity after opportunity to return to the light.

Melkor has done both those things. Like Walter, he was "born" in light far greater than any mortal human, yet turned from it. Like Tony, he has and will received multiple opportunities to repent and seek pardon. This is a difficult thing; Evil in Middle-Earth is not just corruptive but addictive. Watching some of the evil people struggle with it is like watching an alcoholic swear they can give it up any time they like. But so far as we can tell, Melkor never actually made ANY sincere attempt, not now and not in the thousands of years of chances he will have in the future.

Also, I think the "omnisicent and omnipotent" aspect of Illuvatar is most closely analogous to a gamemaster in D&D. The gamemaster knows everything about the game world , knows everything that transpires in it, has all power within it. But that doesn't mean everything is going to happen as they foresee if the GM is dming human players. The only way to have things exactly as you would wish would be to replace the humans at your table with little dolls , acting both as GM and as player via DMPCs.

That's not much fun.

Perhaps Eru could have had a better world if he'd done it all himself, but for some reason he wanted the willing participation of other intelligent beings in his subcreation. Not merely as audience but as active co-creators, sub-creators, musicians playing in his orchestra. And if "willing" is to have any meaning, you have to give these intelligent creatures the capacity to revolt. A creature that doesn't revolt because it can't isn't "willing" or "free". It's a robot or a machine doing what its programmed to do.

The optimal course Eru seems to be aiming at is not a world where the Ainu do what they're supposed to because they have no choice. The world he's aiming for is one where they DO have a choice and yet choose to go along with him anyway. What's more, out of free and willing obedience they exceed their original instructions and make improvements not originally anticipated by the design but welcomed in as marvelous innovations, as we will see in the future chapters.

That's one of the major breaking points between Eru and Melkor , and indeed throughout Tolkien's work. Evil enslaves and binds the will to compel obedience by force. Good frees the will and exhorts it to the good. That is why Sauron creates wraiths and Gandalf does not. That is also why Gandalf exhorts the free peoples of Middle Earth to do what they can within their powers, but does not seek to take authority over the kingdoms of Rohan and Gondor to rule and direct them as an emperor of many kingdoms, though from a military standpoint that would be far more efficient.

"Good" is taking a risk because there's no guarantee a free will won't simply walk back into evil. But "good" is characterized by faith in the good, by trust that creatures will do rightly. It is because evil lacks this trust that it seeks to ensure perfect obedience by taking away even the capacity to disobey if possible, compulsion by fear and terror where not.

It is because of this I suspect that Sauron and Melkor both see themselves as the "good guys", saving the world from the chaos that only they can deliver the world from, and they are absolutely determined to use every possible means to ensures this come about. The reason they fail and become dark lords is because you can't bring about the kind of free, willing obedience that is the hallmark of good by force and compulsion.

Respectfully,

Brian P.