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    Troll in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Mar 2016

    Default Re: Polymorphing into a human grants a bonus feat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darg View Post
    I'm a fan of the primary source rule myself.



    Racial traits for playable races aren't classified as extraordinary abilities in the PHB and if there is a conflict between the PHB and the MM the PHB is assumed the primary source. As that is the case, you don't lose your racial traits, nor would you gain the racial traits of the race you transform into other than what the spells specifically tell you what you gain. I was out voted several times for this.

    Basically, playable race racial traits would be considered natural abilities instead of extraordinary as anything not classified is considered natural.



    That said, my design sensibilities would have been to separately classify individual traits instead of lumping them together.
    You are not the sole fan of the Primary Source Rule (PSR). It's just that somehow you ended up with an interpretation of the rules that can cause "gray areas" with dysfunctions (just my humble opinion, no offense here).

    _______________


    It boils down, how the definitions of Special Abilities is to be interpreted by the rules.
    Imho there is sole one interpretation that gives us 4 distinct categories for ALL abilities and not sole those abilities that are obviously visually marked with "(XX)".



    1. The PSR says that there is topic supremacy and gives some nonexclusive examples. It doesn't limit nor define what can be a topic. Thus we have to take the full extend of the general english definition of "topic". As such anything that creates a distinct situation (specific) is his own topic. As soon as you have 2 or more (!) rules interacting, you can always take 2 and compare their status to each other. When dealing with multiple rules at the same time, you get a rule hierarchy. One direction is more "general" while the other direction is more "specific": e.g.
    Attack Rules > Full Attack Rules > TWF rules > TWF feat > Power Attack ...
    (this is an example how the interacting rules might look like)

    2. The hierarchy for Special Abilities is by RAW a bit annoying due to the PSR:
    Quote Originally Posted by PSR
    The Player's Handbook, for example, gives all the rules for playing the game, ...
    This gives the general definition of Special Abilities in the PHB topic supremacy. But at the time...
    Quote Originally Posted by PSR
    The Monster Manual is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.
    So, while for the general topic "Special Abilities" you should consult the PHB, for the 3 more specific subcategories (excluding Natural Abilities!) you should be looking into the MM version.

    3. Since we found out that the PHB has topic supremacy, we should look at the PHB version (p.180). This is very important, because the SRD version changed up the order and this can creates misinterpretations imho. Now lets have a look at the PHB version:
    ***Added some numbers (x) (/x) at the start and end of the important parts for a better visualization***
    Special Abilities

    (1) Medusas, dryads, harpies, and other magical creatures can create magical effects without being spellcasters. Characters using magic wands, rods, and other enchanted items, as well as certain class features, can also create magical effects. These effects come in two types: spell-like and supernatural(/1). (2) Additionally, members of certain classes and certain creatures can use special abilities that aren’t magical. These abilities are called extraordinary or natural (/2).

    Spell-Like Abilities: A dryad’s charm person effect and the greater teleport ability of many devils are spell-like abilities Usually, (3) a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name (/3). (4) A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described (/4).
    (5) A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component. A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted
    otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
    Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated, such as an antimagic field. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
    Some creatures are actually sorcerers of a sort. They cast arcane spells as sorcerers do, using components when required. In fact, an individual creature (such as some dragons) could have some spell-like abilities and also cast other spells as a sorcerer. (/5)

    Supernatural Abilities: (6) A dragon’s fiery breath, a medusa’s pet-rifying gaze, a spectre’s energy drain, and a cleric’s use of positive or negative energy to turn or rebuke undead are supernatural abilities.
    These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic, and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field).(/6)

    Extraordinary Abilities: (7) A rogue’s evasion ability and a troll’s ability to regenerate are extraordinary abilities. These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. They are not subject to dispelling, and they function normally in an antimagic field. Indeed, extraordinary abilities do not qualify as magical, though they may break the laws of physics.(/7)

    Natural Abilities: (8) This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature, such as a bird’s ability to fly (/8). (9) Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like.(/9)
    (1) Within the general rules for Special Abilities we first divide the magical abilities into the 2 categories SLA & SU.

    (2) Nonmagical abilities fall either into EX or NA

    (3) In general, SLA refer to an existing spell and produce the same effect.

    (4) SLA without an actual existing spell may exist but are called out.

    (5) Explains how SLA work in general and some edge chases.

    (6) Explains how SU work.

    (7) Explains how EX work and notes again that they are always non-magical.

    (8) Explains that NA thrive from your physical nature (your normal base race without any kind of character resources like feats, class lvl, templates and such).

    (9) The sentence is further explaining (8) and doesn't refer to anything outside of the Natural Abilities paragraph (this is where most confusion thrives from imho..). "Those" is referring to "abilities a creature has because of its physical nature".
    Try to read it like:
    "Those abilities a creature has because of its physical nature that are not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like are Natural Abilities."
    The sentence does not give you permission on a global level to treat any ability that is not designated as NA. Only those abilities that thrive from your physical nature. It's (the sentence) is not a global rule for Special Abilities. If it would have been intended that way, it wouldn't be standing in the specific NA rules but in the general Special Ability rules at the start of the section/quote.


    5.
    So, we have 4 distinct categories:

    NA: (nonspecial) abilities (for its race) a creature has because of its physical nature that are not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like are Natural Abilities

    EX: Special Abilities that are non magical

    SLA: abilities that refer to a spell or are explicitly called out as SLA

    SU: magical abilities that don't refer to a spell (and aren't called out as SLA).


    6. Book of Exalted Deeds also has this interesting line that further proves my interpretation:
    Quote Originally Posted by BoED
    Exalted Feats
    ...
    These feats are thus supernatural in nature (rather than being extraordinary abilities, as most feats are).
    Most feats are (EX) because you don't get (most of) em due to your physical nature and most of em are non magical. Imho this sounds right to me by statistical evidence.

    This sentence further proves that abilities don't always need to have a friendly reminder in form of "(XX)".
    The general rules for Special Abilities (1) & (2) are always in effect and have to be applied by the DM. No reminders needed for that.

    7. Conclusion:

    Since the Human Bonus feat is a mental ability (disqualifies as NA since it is not physical) that is non-magical (disqualifies as SLA & SU), it can sole be an EX ability.