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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2017

    Default Re: What triggers some people about Pathfinder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    Look at it from the other view as it is in 5E. People complain a barbarian can succeed a Knowledge Arcana check when the wizard fails. The DM has to arbitrarily say the barbarian can't roll, with some people criticizing the DM does that wanting the barbarian to get the roll. Having it both ways doesn't work. Pathfinder made its decision. You need to be this high to ride on skills. You don't have to like it, but at least there is an official rule on the matter, and Pathfinder is not stingy on the number of skills players may have. No character can do everything, and no character is supposed to be able to do everything, except perhaps bards as a class feature jack of all trades.
    The only thing you really take a penalty on for is not getting to add your level to untrained skills, and some actions (for Athletics, Disarm) you need at minimum training- Recall Knowledge is not one of them, and it uses simple DCs. If a task is described as Expert in the 'sample tasks' in the skill section, that's generally a reference to the Simple DCs

    If you're referring to the 'minimum proficiency' rules-
    Sometimes succeeding at a particular task requires a character to have a specific proficiency rank in addition to a success on the check. Locks and traps often require a certain proficiency rank to successfully use the Pick a Lock or Disable a Device actions of Thievery. A character whose proficiency rank is lower than what’s listed can attempt the check, but they can’t succeed. You can apply similar minimum proficiencies to other tasks. You might decide, for example, that a particular arcane theorem requires training in Arcana to understand. An untrained barbarian can’t succeed at the check, but she can still attempt it if she wants—after all, she needs to have a chance to critically fail and get erroneous information!

    For checks that require a minimum proficiency, keep the following guidelines in mind. A 2nd-level or lower task should almost never require expert proficiency, a 6th-level or lower task should almost never require master proficiency, and a 14th-level or lower task should almost never require legendary proficiency. If they did, no character of the appropriate level could succeed.
    In the case of locks/traps, that sort of thing usually gets rolled into the defined DC of a hazard, for example:
    Disable Religion DC 29 (master) to exorcise the spirit or Diplomacy DC 31 (expert) to talk it down
    Everything else in the book is just a regular DC, no requirements.

    Proficiency requirements are not meant to apply to general skill checks without a specific reason.
    Last edited by aimlessPolymath; 2023-02-03 at 07:14 PM.
    My one piece of homebrew: The Shaman. A Druid replacement with more powerlevel control.
    The bargain bin- malfunctioning, missing, and broken magic items.
    Spirit Barbarian: The Barbarian, with heavy elements from the Shaman. Complete up to level 17.
    The Priest: A cleric reword which ran out of steam. Still a fun prestige class suitable for E6.
    The Coward: Not every hero can fight.