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Thread: Better alternative than stat-less races

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    Default Re: Better alternative than stat-less races

    Quote Originally Posted by qube View Post
    I know, and yet
    • You previously lauded the fact that golaiths get an ability that increases their carrying capacity.
    • You're against elves having the get +2 DEX - even if pointed out that this would have different game mechanical effects then the current rules.

    That does not make sense to me. Carrying capacity is ALSO a number you know. Why do think one is bad and the other isn't?
    This question was directed at Psyren, but as I am also a person who thinks Powerful Build is fine but 5e-style +2 Str mod isn't (either for race or gender), here's why I think that:

    Powerful build grants a new feature, but +2 Str changes the cost of an existing feature.

    This is a subtle but very important difference from a game design perspective. With Powerful Build, the number of possible flavors actually increases. Now you can be someone who is not merely a person with 20 Str, but *also* Powerful Build.

    With +2 Str, on the other hand, the actual amount of feature concepts does not increase -- you're still playing a PC with 8-20 Strength. What happens instead is that if you create 2 characters with 20 Str, they're both equally strong, but the one who didn't play into their race stereotype lost an extra feat in the deal and is underpowered relative to those who *did* play into the stereotype. This is because racial modifiers don't balance out -- for any given 5e class, your primary stat is worth more than your secondary stat is worth more than your tertiary, quaternary, quinary, and senary stats. So if one character gets +2 to primary and -2 to quaternary, that character gets a net positive, while the character who gets +2 to quaternary and -2 to primary gets a net negative. It's objectively inferior. This is especially evident with point buy -- if you get a +2 to a lower priority stat, it'll be worth 2 point buy points. Whereas if you get a +2 to your primary stat, it's worth more than 2 point buy, and might even be worth an ASI besides.

    So if we make two characters with the concept "championship level knight" with largely identical capabilities (like Brienne and Jaime) but some designer decides it's a great idea to make Brienne get a Str penalty because she's a girl, then instead of a party with Brienne and Jaime (who are equally capable) you get a party with Jaime and some less capable girl who is not as qualified to be in the party as he is, because she's short a feat.

    And why should Brienne be a more expensive character to build than Jaime? Because Brienne is a more unusual example of her gender? Why pay a penalty for unusualness? Usually in game design we cost features by their effectiveness, not their oddness. Why should races or genders be the exception?

    Being "more unusual" shouldn't mean being worse.

    The kind of character concepts that fixed 5e-style racial modifiers discourage shouldn't be discouraged.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2023-02-06 at 12:59 AM.