1. - Top - End - #128
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Magical MacGyver side-by-side comparison game

    Just noticed this, seems entertaining, let's see what...

    Raksha interrupt!

    Right then, thematic obligations are a go. Much like a D&D wizard, only worse, the Fair Folk can be furnished with the Toolbox of the Gods, which can do more or less anything (even break the rules of Exalted, but that's nothing special) - so it's more a matter of designing a character that will be thematic, and accepting the ensuing constraints on performance.

    I am not going to create character sheets, but let's see what we can do without excessive cheese, in different systems (one a lot lower tier than the other).

    Spoiler: Fair Folk - the Butterfly Sage
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    The Sage thinks mortal drama is the most fun since daytime TV (despite having no idea what TV is), and therefore is a Cup / Staff noble. With artifacts, of course - almost none of them meant to change the local nation into the latest show she's seen. Briefly put, she has, as a starting character:

    - Social Skills: YES (probably not going to abuse the ability to charm the gods into visiting to help her out)
    - Combat: is a butterfly, so not especially good at killing things, exceptional at not being killed by things
    - Knowledge: definitely, if a slight tendency to write her own fanfic versions of the local lore (and have them accepted)
    - Wealth: all of it, not really aware of the fact.
    - Magic: some tricks, extremely flexible if not overly potent. With some effort and supplies, can remake her artifacts with some effort (same power level, different powers)
    - Artifacts: pocket universe, all the minions, a body double or two (lacks wealth and magic, much better at hurting things), a few different ways to win combat, emergency palace because why not, some defensive tricks, and still need to define another 2/3 of them. Put a significant investment in a 4 or 5-dot Oneiromancy, currently set to "everyone in the country now has the susceptibility to damage and common sense of a Saturday Morning Cartoon character, except with butterfly themes", because sometimes the entertainment is slow to appear and has to be created by hand. Still have 4-5 undefined minor artifacts at this point, which is suitably terrifying.

    That's a starting level character, more or less. Level 9 equivalent is... more.


    Spoiler: Reve - Wandering Dreamer
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    The Dreamer has been traveling through the dragon's dreams for quite some time, and actually managed to get close to his archetype in some areas. He is a high-dreamer, and has picked up quite a few spells, including some investment in Narcos and even a few notions of Thanatos. Since he's aware that he is a dream, death isn't much of a concern.

    - Social Skills: Medium+, he's been around and met quite a few strange beings, and managed not to fight them all
    - Combat: Medium+, Reve is normal human scale and even with training and enchanted armor / weapons, fights are dangerous
    - Knowledge: Variable. Very used to being in a new world where the local culture is alien, but also very well grounded in how dreams (and magic) work. Fairly proficient at most skills, from having to use them at some time or other.
    - Wealth: Not really. Some past trophies, some not yet enchanted gems, no local currency.
    - Magic: a solid repertoire of spells with predefined effects, relatively slow casting. A few really odd effects (including summons), but range is limited. Some options for dream abuse.
    - Artifacts: enchanted equipment, healing potions, maybe a few 'spell trigger' items for the spells he knows.


    Yes, the Dreamer can only dream of being the Butterfly, but that's per expectations.

    Spoiler: Scenario 0: Fortifications
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    We'll assume the Butterfly does not want to fetch an infinite number of chairs with which to build a barricade, because that's boring. She has ample time to actually create a small fort, with butterfly decorations of course, but again that would be tedious. Instead, she'll convince the locals to stay around until the invading army is close, then (temporarily) turn the river into a wall of lava butterflies. These are actually harmless to touch, but are a great way to start negotiations with the newcomers. Even without the flying lava things, they'll want to agree with her.


    The Dreamer confers with locals to find out what time it is, and how long days last. A little math and spellcasting later, and there are 10' wide pillars of stone falling down the heavens to build walls as needed. When the invading army comes, the bridge can be removed, a few guards summoned, or static fireballs emplaced. It's a much easier fight than it could have been, mostly thanks to having prep time.


    Spoiler: Scenario 1: Needles
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    Knowing there is a Lich involved, the Butterfly can put on a mask of undeath too, in order to properly socialize the creature. The peasant wants to tell her everything about everything he knows, probably without even needing to rewrite his Motivation or other parts of his character sheet. We could remake one of our body doubles into a perfect hunter and find the needle that way, but the Butterfly isn't too dedicated to the Way (pocket world aside). Since it's humanly possible to find the needle, we could also reshape an Oneiromancy to give use Imposition of Law and find it, but that's a known hack. Instead, we have a Behemoth become part of the landscape, and use its senses to find the needle.

    Negotiating with the lich is going to succeed (the Butterfly could offer space in her pocket world if necessary), but the wightocalypse is more of a problem. She can't actually be hurt, and can wipe out any groups she finds fairly easily, but it would take somewhat more work to actually prevent. Which makes it a challenge! Trigger the Oneiromancy of "Everyone is now a Shonen Butterfly character" to buy time, then design a more durable solution if it looks interesting.


    The Dreamer has a much harder time, and probably needs to call on a summons to find the needle - which it does, at a very embarrassing and annoying price, as is its rule. Negotiations with the lich are liable to break down, possibly involving nightmare spirits trying to devour it, and the needle itself is either easily transmuted into air, or very hard to destroy. The Dreamer also has no solution to the wightocalypse, besides the comfort of knowing that once he dies he'll wake up elsewhere, and probably safer.


    Spoiler: Scenario 2: itty bitty models
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    The Butterfly has a Charm for that, one that literally creates a First Age (hypertech) vessel, with options for adding flight and land movement on top. Making it permanently might take a while, because the Butterfly is a good sport and is not engaging in needless time travel, but a temporary version is feasible. Of course, depending on the same Charm(s) over and over is tiresome, and the Butterfly can reliably convince the judges to buy a cardboard box for the price of the kingdom's treasury, so we'll try to do something more fun.

    Learning that the actual ship is (almost) available, the Butterfly can travel to it at a fairly decent clip. Probably not supersonic, because we didn't build that way, but we literally have a Charm to create a flying fortress - on the back of a giant butterfly, of course. Flutter over to where the ship is, toss it into our pocket dimension, return. Probably include a pause to negotiate with the captain, potentially dropping them on top of a few raiders on the way. If the design looks interesting enough, shanghai the shipwright to build our own fleet of butterfly ships, which we'll store somewhere outside reality and probably forget about.


    The Dreamer is not an exceptional sailor, or artist, and is definitely not going to summon up help when it's just money on the line. There is a small chance he might be inspired to discover a 'reverse burning' spell, but that's pushing plausibility. Dream rifts might get him to the ship (and get the ship back), but since they're not controllable it seems a terrible idea. Hypnos based scrying might let the judges view the ship in action, but that's pushing things. Likely fail, but with a lot of entertaining off the wall attempts on the way.


    Spoiler: Scenario 3: nation building
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    The Dreamer knows other Raksha who are perfectly built for the role, but they're not her. Not a problem! All of her stuff is linked to her Heart, so either she has it and can get started on remaking her "Cartoon Time" Oneiromancy, or she does not and that tier of power is a long ways off. Let's assume the worst, since it's more fun that way (note to self: build a dwarf fortress). By virtue of being the ruler, the Butterfly can quickly empower a few locals, and use that process to start creating minor artifacts. We don't have ways to affect the entire country (unless we want to destroy it), so we'll go with the flow. A bauble to make everyone close to it immune to heat will ensure the population survives, and those can be made fairly easily. There's still the necessity of distributing them and other logistics, but the Butterfly and her minions are the only ones who can keep them running, so we're fairly set.

    Wealth is a joke, and the Butterfly creates a solid gold palace one week when she's feeling bored. More practically, we want to be self sustaining, and might have invading armies to deal with. The fun thing about both issues is that the Butterfly can talk at them, but having everyone worship you is (probably) not sustainable? So we call on our considerable lore to figure out if the warming effect is something we can use, discover it's more or less equivalent to an uncapped demesne, cackle maniacally and create a freehold on top - a pocket of reality we control absolutely. Then we start up some ruby mines, welcome all our people in the freehold, and thrive. If that does not work, we just reshuffle society into worshiping us anyway, and do the tedious job of creating defensive Oneiromancies to protect us, as well as creating resources. Or produce a lake every week or so and drop it wherever. Winnable, but may be tiresome.


    The Dreamer operates on a much smaller scale, but can absolutely produce massive quantities of water out of thin air. Oneiros is fun that way. Turning other people into high dreamers is slow and not especially good for their sanity, so he's probably going to want to go the Narcos route and produce water creating artifacts. The main issues are therefore invading armies and getting enough gemstones for enchanting. Trade with the northern kingdom, and look at what else might be produced.

    Since the Dreamer is going this deeply into Hypnos, we might as well generate cheap wood and metal. It's not high quality, but there is as much of it as we want, which probably helps for trade. He's not going to be especially effective against an army, but we are in the middle of a desert with the only water supply... so invading isn't looking good. And a mountain range is the dragon's gift to landslides, so invading armies will have a hard time. Color wards are also a way to boost defenses at the skirmish / siege level.

    Overall, tentative success.


    Other scenarios later. Current verdict: the Butterfly is as broken as can be, and not trying too hard. The Dreamer is surprisingly good at large scale infrastructure, but suffers from a relatively narrow spell pool - even if the spells are quite versatile.
    Last edited by meschlum; 2023-04-24 at 02:41 AM. Reason: Typos