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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: If there was going tp be a heat-death of the universe, would that be order or ch

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    This is mistaken (or a very dodgy redefinition), the atoms in a crystal are spaced regularly with no intention involved.
    Regularly, but why would you call it "order"? Order for what?

    Think about how the word is used. "Put things in order" - an intentional process that may refer to any kind of sequence or pattern, depending what you want to do with the Things. "Out of order" - either "not functioning", or "not conforming to an expected pattern". "In order to" - explicitly refers to an intent. "Give an order" - convey intent.

    Atoms in a crystal are spaced regularly, sure. That's good order only if you want to maintain the crystal in an unchanging shape. Regularity is not in itself orderly, it only becomes so when viewed by someone who wants things that way.

    Look up "order" in a dictionary. I just did, it listed 12 distinct meanings (nine nouns, three verbs). Five of the nouns and all of the verbs relate to purpose, intent or discipline (the other four nouns are about classification, which is also an intentional thing). In the absence of these things, the word has no meaning. No matter how neat the universe is, it's not "ordered" unless viewed by something with a purpose, or at least a preference, in mind.

    Now, you can say that you are viewing the pattern, through the prism of your imagination, and you find it orderly, because it conforms to some sort of ideal in your mind. And no doubt you can find other people who share that perception. Which is fine for you, but purely subjective, and gives you no grounds for arguing with anyone who happens to disagree.
    Last edited by veti; 2023-05-10 at 02:49 PM.