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    Default Re: Iron Chef E6 Appetizer Edition, Round XLVII

    While you're waiting for the judgement, how about I share some ideas I had for this round?

    -A barkeep/salesman based around using charms and psionic minor creation to create Orc Kragg (nauseates non-orcs, no save) or mordain tea (1d10 constitution damage poison) and convince people to drink them, with Tormenting Thirst as a sort of ultimate in-combat save-or-lose. Possibly he'd use Price of Loyalty (PGtE) under the cover of returning people their change. Ranks in Perform (Tea Ceremony) are of course mandatory. Tormenting Thirst is even on the Sand Shaper list, so some unusual base caster choices could be made.

    -A build based around the spurdism trick (Spurring a mount deals double damage every round, so cast Delay Death and Beastland Ferocity on a horse, cast Sadism on yourself, and you can rack up an enormous bonus to a skill check of your choice, 2/3 spells involved in the combo are enchantment so it seemed like a fitting enough build, but the fact that I hadn't come up with it myself soured the idea some)

    -Enthralling Voice is an invocation available to dragonfire adepts that's mostly notable for being the equivalent of a 6th level spell, meaning it has the insane save DC of 16 + charisma before extra bonuses and items. No idea what I'd do with it, but that's a big number!

    -Getting a bunch of animals somehow, using Bestow Curse to make them invisible to each other, and then casting Enrage Animals to make them go into a murderous frenzy targeting anyone nearby.

    ...okay that's enough now for the judgem- oh look there it is.

    Spoiler: Herman (11.75)
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    Huh, Herman isn't a common English name, is it? It leaves me wondering if this mystery builder is Dutch as well.

    Originality (2.25):
    Artificer isn't bard or wizard, but I'm not exactly blown away by the choice. Call it half points. 0.5/1

    Boring ole human isn't good for originality - and I'm not even sure why you're a human? It's E6, you get a zillion feats, it doesn't look like you particularly needed to get this-or-that combo up early... it just feels like a very uninspired choice. 0/0.5

    Well, your list of feats did manage to surprise me, so credit for that - but you're hardly the first person to think of going all-in on item creation and stacking a bunch of feats together. 0.5/1.5

    Mechanically, are we seeing anything particularly innovative? I don't think so - everything you do is pretty well-established as far as crafting shenanigans go. What about fluff? Not too impressed either - a magical authority mind-controlling lawbreakers is quite common as a trope. 0.25/1

    Elegance (1.5):
    No multiclass XP penalties, great job. 0.5/0.5

    So, build legality. Where to begin?

    You apply Magical Artisian to Extraordinary Artisan. I don't think this is illegal: Extraordinary Artisan is very clearly an item creation feat. My question is: is it an item creation feat you can 'create items with'? And here, I think the answer is 'no' - Extraordinary Artisan modifies the process of item creation, but it is not used to create the item, in much the same sense my toolbox is not used to build a chair the way the hammer inside it is. Aka, your feat-stacking is perfectly legal but also perfectly pointless.

    You seem to think Enhance Item reads 'add your intelligence modifier to the DC of all items you create'. This is not true. The rules for magic items say "For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell". The only thing that Enhance Item lets you do is allow you to use your own ability modifier instead of the minimum. This also torpedoes your hopes of it stacking with itself: it doesn't. Again, you legally pick it a bunch of times, but it doesn't actually do anything after the first.

    You break the rules for magic item creation. Your custom armor grants a dodge bonus, but as per the rules magic items never grant dodge bonuses (knowing WotC's superb editing this is almost definitely false - but the rules separately also say that creating a magic item that grants a dodge bonus is impossible, so I'm comfortable slapping you down still). You also create items that give enhancement bonuses to ability scores in excess of +6, which is similarly not allowed.

    Wondrous Rings is homebrew and illegal to take. The OP says very clearly 'We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones.' The 'E6 document' you quote is homebrew, and very little from it was actually transferred over to this competition.

    As for the things that aren't strictly illegal but really inelegant: you rely heavily on custom magic items, you further abuse the custom magic item system by sticking on alignment restrictions and skill check requirements that do not functionally impact you, you just kind of assume you get to break WBL by the end of it all. Aging rules create a very uneven playing field for mentally biased characters, and I frown upon them for that reason. You show some restraint in what spells you choose to access (nothing above 3rd level, which is actually less than what an artificer could arguably do), and then proceed to grab from the list of classes that don't even exist in E6. Like, what's the logic between saying that it's fine to call on 3rd-level bard spells (minimum CL 7) or 3rd-level thayan slaver spells (minimum ECL 12), while conspicuously avoiding 4th-level wizard spells?

    Also, if I'm not mistaken you casually want to stack ten different functions with the same command word onto one item, then activate them all with a single standard action? Which is not explicitly forbidden by the rules but, like, c'mon.

    I won't be examining your adherence to body slot affinities (not like it would change anything at this point) - but I suspect you took some liberties there too. Final score for legality: 0/2

    Well, the closest thing to synergy and efficiency would be your decision to key several item creation feats off of each other, except I don't think that actually works. Rather, I'm getting the impression you allot yourself a true bonanza of toys only for them to heavily compete for your limited actions. 0/1.5


    Power (4.5):
    Here's the thing: I don't know what your build can do. Everything you're presenting me with, from your save DCs to your item loadout, is based on assumptions I consider fundamentally mistaken - and that's a rough situation to be in if you're an artificer and you basically are your item loadout. At the end of the day, there's a clear floor on how low your power can sink: you're still a tier 1 class with all the good item creation feats and a willingness to milk the rules for all they're worth, but I have no idea what Legal Herman actually looks like.

    It's the age-old issue with illegal builds that make bold claims: judging them is obviously not as simple as going along with the build in power and tearing it apart in elegance, but I don't want to run afoul of One Mistake One Penalty either. I'm going to strike a middle ground, where I judge your build based on your rough intent and what it can unambiguously do.

    So to start right off: you've got a good understanding of artificer mechanics and bonus stacking, you want to recruit some meatshields and equip them with cheap but useful gear, you want to boost your own stats... I like the idea of using autohypnosis to let yourself keep tabs on your spell durations. We are still cooking with artificer here, I don't want to give too much credit, but you're unquestionably an incredibly powerful character even with some sanity checks in place. 1/1.5.

    Your plan against mind-affecting immune targets is to blast them down with magic missiles, torch them with fireballs, or send in your well-equipped brute squad - you've got a plan, and you can plausibly do something with it even if the build is reworked. 1/1

    Outside of combat you plan to stack skill boosts, craft items with fabricate, sneak around invisibly, craft some at-will healing items... sure, let's just say you'll be able to make yourself useful. 0.75/0.75

    At-will item powers are clearly what you're going for, no issues with your reliability throughout the day. 0.75/0.75

    UoSI (3.5):
    Even if you end up with saner enchantments, I don't doubt you could make a Herman who's still spamming an enchantment every round and then buffing all his enchanted minions. That's pretty good! On the other hand, you could most definitely pivot away from any particular strategy if you had enough crafting time and resources. 1.5/2

    You can start crafting enchantment items right from the get-go. 1/1

    Your use of enchantments doesn't feel particularly groundbreaking to me. You're casting them in combat and you're using them to get servants: that's the expected use case. 0/1

    Final Verdict:
    There is such a thing as overdoing it.

    You can approach the enchanter theme with artificer: that's a creative yet obviously workable angle! That can really work! Perhaps you can even mix spells from different lists together into a synergistic whole, or looked into ways to combine enchantment AoEs like Deep Slumber with construct minions! But instead we get the same custom item optimizations that people have been theorycrafting since the DMG came out. It's not even an enchanter, not really - you could swap out the hat for any other item of Underleveled Command Word Spells and submitted this to any other casting-based round.

    And here's the thing: what did it get you? Lots of Power, sure, but power is only one of four categories. I promise you that I give power scores above 4 to builds that don't try to break the game to this extent. At some point, throwing more and more resources into the same thing isn't actually getting you anything more.

    Please don't let me come across as too harsh here, don't think I'm telling you that you shouldn't have submitted a build: if anything, I'm driven by frustration for not getting to see what you could have made instead. Stick with the concept of Herman, sure, but expand on it in ways slightly more innovative, slightly less laser-focused on maximal power at the expense of everything else. Browse some sourcebooks, look for spells and feats you like, find a niche more resonant than generalist artifice - I promise you, the resulting build will score far better than one retreading 20-year-old optimization tactics.


    Spoiler: Ferrimelk (14.5)
    Show
    Originality (4):
    Telepath psion was definitely high on the list of expected builds - the fighter dip is noteworthy in the context of this round, but it's also still a fighter dip. I guess seeing them together is another surprise, so sure, have 0.5/1.

    Kalashtar makes some sense for a round that psions fit well, and I'm not surprised to see one, but it's hardly a shoe-in. 0.25/0.5

    Some real surprises in those feats! Intimidating Strike just makes sense on E6 builds that don't get to +6 BAB but it's still nice to see. Mind Mask I had to look up, same as Psychic Warfare, and the charging feats I did not see coming in this context at all. Your other choices are less notable but still rather innovative, though I'll say Animal Affinity just feels like an uninspired pick. 1.25/1.5

    I like the fluff! It's always nice to see people do things with Eberron, and the idea of a Quori invasion is well-included. Similarly, the idea of a kalashtar evading detection through both mundane and supernatural misdirection is nothing if not interesting. 1/1

    Elegance (3.25):
    No multiclass XP penalties. 0.5/0.5

    I didn't take away points for it, but it's a bit confusing to see you list 'Telepathy' as a 1st-level class feature. I know you just mean the discipline, but there exists an ACF for telepaths that grants them the actual Telepathy ability. Something to keep in mind in the future perhaps.

    The wording of Bonus Essentia mentions that it only grants 2 points of essentia if you can shape soulmelds. I consider the plural to matter here, and unfortunately you don't meet that condition. You seem to think a lance deals 1d10 base damage: it doesn't, it deals 1d8. You take spirited charge before ride-by attack, despite the latter being a prerequisite for the former. The choice to give your psicrystal feats feels a bit awkward to me for sure but isn't outright illegal: but the choice to count the fighter level is. The monster entry clearly states "Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder)". You can't just assume the XP spent on crafting is basically free. All in all, a lot of little errors that add up to only half points in this category. 1/2

    The martial and psionic parts of your build definitely feel a little ill-integrated. Sure, there's some fear synergy (though it forces you to use Intimidating Strike first and then follow up with Dream Lock specifically, meaning that you're only ever frightening people who were badly hurt anyway), and there's some Psychic Warfare maneuvers, but you'll often be forced to choose between charging and manifesting in a way that doesn't feel especially synergistic. The issue between wanting two-handed charges for maximum damage and wanting to go lance-and-shield for Block Arrow is awkward as well. I do like Psionic Weapon and your use of Deep Crystal and Sentira for blending the two sides of your character a bit more. All in all, a build that makes a valiant effort to bridge the gap between its two main themes but only partially succeeds. 0.75/1.5

    Power (3.75):
    Alright, so I like how your baseline is just a psion with slightly reduced PP in exchange for a massive AC boost and much improved mobility. The option to charge feels like icing, and there's definitely issues with the strategy (relatively low to-hit even with the charge boost, positioning issues, AoOs from anyone other than your target), but it's definitely something you'll want to be doing sometimes. Still, I can't shake the feeling that quite commonly you'll wish you'd been either a 6th-level psion (who'd have been able to get week-long charms on several creature types) or a more martially inclined fighter or psychic warrior.

    Your defenses are a bit of an issue too: HP in the low thirties is alright but not great for a primary melee combatant, especially when your reflex is so lacking, fortitude is a mere +5 where most frontliners have something around +7 or +8 by now... I'd just have liked the numbers to be a little bit higher. Plus, your Ride isn't as high as I'd like it to be for a build that really wants to protect its horse with Mounted Combat. 0.75/1.5

    Nearly everything you do is foiled by mind-affecting immunity, except hitting people with a lance - but that lance does hit pretty hard, and the odd bit of psionic weapon damage helps. Still, charging won't always be an option, and when it's not your attack routine drops to a pitiful +5 to-hit, 1d8+2 damage. (You might respond that you want to use deep crystal, I would in turn retort that you cannot create it out of thin air and so it'd introduce the exact sort of item dependency that you tried to avoid by adding an item creation feat) 0.5/1

    A bit of bluff and intimidate and racial bonuses to the same, Read Thoughts, a horse that tracks by scent, clairtangent sense, a psicrystal, the ability to use Diplomacy in a pinch, an out-of-combat DC boost via Psychic Warfare... yeah, this looks like an okay face and scout. Item crafting adds a smidge of utility on top of that, and your ability to conceal your psionic nature so well pushes this into a full 0.75/0.75 for me.

    No issues with staying power - spending at least one round per combat attacking means your PP lasts longer than an at-level psion's, despite the latter having more on paper. 0.75/0.75

    UoSI (3.5):
    If you're charging, you're not charming - at best you'll be using a swift on Primal Fear but even that's a bit redundant with all the other ways you have to make foes shaken. Like, I get that it's kind of the point that your character isn't an altogether obvious telepath, but when that forces you to purge charms from (a portion of) your combat routine, yeah, that's going to reflect poorly on UoSI. Still, 1/2 here.

    You get Dream Lock at level 3, which as far as I'm concerned is good enough for early use of enchantments. 1/1

    Is there innovative use of enchantments here? Psychic Warfare and comboing Dream Lock with Intimidating Strike earns you points here, and the decision to use Faint Memory to create a false impression of your capabilities pushes this to 0.5/1


    Final Verdict:
    I like the idea of a fully armored lance-charging guy who's secretly a psion, but making a character who's actually good at both of those things is a serious challenge, and making one who can seamlessly combine them is even harder. Ferrimelk is going to feel like an underwhelming lance charger at times, and like a psion at others, but will only rarely feel like both, which is a pity. Even so, a solid take on the enchantment theme, and a very memorable bit of fluff to tie it all together.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2024-03-01 at 07:11 PM.
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