Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
But players don't get a choice that their characters will fail more saves as the levels increase against save-or-lose effects that become ever more common as levels go up. You're saying that's great and good and right, because they can spend 2 or 3 asi and 1 or 2 item attunements in order for one of their two off-class "big three" saves to at best maintain the same general rate of success that it had at first level. And that's assuming they play a class with a primary stat that matches one of the big three saves. Or we're back to "someone has to play the healer if we're over 5th/11th level" game design, except its save buffing instead of healing. That's what you're saying.

Remember players don't get a choice that their characters will fail more saves as the levels increase against save-or-lose effects that become ever more common as levels go up. Because that's the way the monsters and game math are written. But you say its all great since they have the option to spend large parts of their character choices on not getting worse at one save.
They arent getting worse. Lets stop with that. Youre fighting stronger monsters. That is not the same thing. You can invest, as a player, to get stronger in those areas too. The degree to which depends a little on the rules youre allowing, but you can get stronger in them.